The best HOTAS for Elite Dangerous: Thrustmaster T16000M and TWCS Throttle - One year on review

[@thatsreallyamoon]

These are the reviews that matter. Not "wow look at this thing I bought yesterday, it's great, buy it". Keep em coming.

[@ArveyJay]

thanks mate, I appreciate it

[@m.hansen1264]

The smoke (or vapor) in the cinematic showcase just made me smile instantly, great video and review!

[@ArveyJay]

Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it! 👍

[@Ryan606]

This is my first time watching your channel. I am very impressed with the production quality.

[@ArveyJay]

Thanks mate, I do try. Hope you'll subscribe for more, and thanks for the feedback :)

[@Kontorotsui]

This was very useful. Much better than reviews on brand new items. What counts the most is how they fare after one year of use.

[@dbrown1257]

Wow a useful video with no 10 minute intro talking about something totally unrelated

[@ArveyJay]

Yeah I hate those too and I'll never make one!

[@TamasKalman]

I ordered a 3d printed part from etsy in order to improve the throttle with ball bearings. now it's incredible smooth. it also added a magnetic detent to automatically center the throttle. highly recommended upgrade, a must have. now it's just amazing. the other weak part of the setup is the YAW potential meter in the joystick, which can go wrong, and it's really hard to access to clean or repair it. other than that, it's a GREAT hotas for ED, probably the best, indeed.

[@katahajimeudegarame2397]

have this setup , never installed the software, only the drivers, works perfectly without it, at least in DCS

[@ares2067]

Agreed. I don't have T.A.R.G.E.T. installed either. Primary use case is ED for me, but works flawlessly out of the box.

[@GrayWinters]

Solid no-bs review, you've earned way more subscriptions than I can give you. But here's one.

[@ArveyJay]

Thanks mate, every one counts :) Keep well.

[@ForgottenRedeye]

Great review thanks mate

[@stofsk]

I got this HOTAS after my X-56 stick yaw spring snapped. It's lasted longer while being less than half the cost I paid for the X-56. Oh that dial at the end of the throttle, I use that for expanding/contracting my scanner scope. Seems like a good use for it IMO.

[@sonicwingnut]

"This does start to show it's limitations in that you have to use some of these buttons to access these screens" [laughs in VR]

[@JohnnyCocas00]

After putting together a proper desktop and getting rid of the laptops I began playing Elite Dangerous, and after undusting my years old, barely used joystick I noted a lot of issues, like buttons not working, huge deadzones to the right and front, and so on... After a bit of research the T16000M seemed like a good bet, an in-between in terms of quality and functionality, but there is and always will be a divide between people, as some prefer one or another... My biggest concern was durability, because my stick probably had about 20 hours of use total before I stored it, and it's dead... It WAS cheap, true, but many complained about their HOTAS starting to act up as soon as a few months, and this is probably the only place I actually saw someone with experience with the HOTAS review it and report on the quality after a year of use! Thanks a lot, I think this is indeed the stick I'll be buying soon, when there's stock xD

[@ArveyJay]

So glad it helped you! 😁👍

[@Honosuseri]

A good mod to prevent the friction of the throttle is to open it up and put sellotape on all the plastic runners that make contact with the metal greased guide rods. Don't forget to put little pieces of tape on the black tabs of the metal friction bar (it has the screw that we tighten or loosen from the outside to make adjustments). It's an incredibly cheap mod to do, everyone should have sticky tape laying around from wrapping presents. Even if you just keep the stock grease on the guide rods you'll still see a great improvement. It's not hard to do either, should take no less than 30 minutes of your time.

[@spannerwindslayer]

The second rudder can be mapped to the horizontal thrusters, i have it that way in my tfligh hotas, and the trimm wheel you could maybe assign it to the sensor scan range

[@clijn6741]

You are seriously underrated

[@ArveyJay]

Thank you my friend. Every share and sub helps to fight the algorithm. :)

[@cajltd1737]

The little wheel on the throttle is very useful for the radar range in Elite, especially when navigating a canyon in an SRV....

[@Gusttafa]

I used that twist input for sensor range and when you are scanning new system to absolute tuning in FSS with it:D

[@ElMitscha]

You can use the trim wheel for radar zoom. Feels nicer than the slider on the stick, and you can do it without having to move the hand away from the throttle - well, you could also use the right palm for that, but that's not very immersive...

[@TaSwavo]

Only problem I've had is on the throttle the button #6 (multi-directional with click) is noisy. I may open it up and see whether there is an easy way to lubricate it. I also loosened the main rail pressure screw and that overcame initial high stickiness. Liking it but wondering whether to stretch to a virpil - lot of cash though

[@ArveyJay]

Yeah I mean it's all about getting what you pay for. The virpil looks incredible but the price matches!

[@joker_g7337]

Joystick Gremlin is a big improvement on T.A.R.G.E.T. I saw on another video that the throttle needs some silicon grease on the arm linking the handle to the potentiometer.

[@ThoughT73]

Greasing the control-cable also helped. I think my cable was catching the edge it travels over.

[@Sephyricon]

I use the x56 which also have the twisty trim controller thingy on the throttle. I use that for sub-target selection in VR so I don't have to muck about in the panels in the middle of a dogfight.

[@ArveyJay]

Good Idea!

[@Accurize2]

I like to use the twisty trim controller for my ship’s air conditioner temp...but honestly I just set it for 68 F and forget it.

[@ArveyJay]

lol

[@normang3444]

Just beginning my flight gaming motivated by Star Wars Squadrons arrival. I chose to get the FCS Flight Pack (so I have the pedals too)(tons of joy for Facebook Marketplace in helping me find someone who posted (only 50 minutes prior to my looking) their Flight Pack for $150. I also picked up a AirBus Sidestick. I will use up the Oculus 2 for VR. The AirBus Sidestck has a better feel to it compared to the T16000M Joystick but, a key button is missing on it that the T16000M has. I wanted to use the AirBus for my main joystick and the T16000M only if I played with a dual Joystick configuration. I ponder still using the AirBus without that bottom button availiable? I will eventually try Elite Dangerous and X-Plane 11. Thank you for posting this video. I am still configuring button loadouts and all videos I have found are great help in learning HOTAS. I subscribed in case I go to Elite Dangerous soon.

[@ArveyJay]

If you try Elite Dangerous you will not regret it! 😁👍

[@RocketDragon-mu6wy]

the twcs throttle and a vkg gladiator nxt make a great combo for similar price and a lot better stick i upgraded a litttle while back and its now what id recomend to people new to hotas along with the impulse slider mod for the throttle

[@TheGodEmperorOfMankind_]

So I got it as my first HOTAS and have about 100 hours with it so far, you don't need TARGET with Elite: Dangerous as it has a great keybinding menu. The throttle does start to stick pretty quickly but isn't a major issue, especially if you have it bolted down. For the stick: The little plastic does wobble which is barely an issue but more importantly the stick yaw (twist) starts to occasionally drift slightly which seems to be an incredibly common problem and might have to get it replaced if it gets worse. Overall I think it's a great entry level, it's not "toy" level and it will help you figure out if a HOTAS is worth it for you. For me, heck yeah even if I only use it on one game. (have tried some others but none have such a great keybinding menu)

[@hr1meg]

"Because so many of you asked for it..." LOL. Subbed.

[@ArveyJay]

Glad you found it funny 😁. Thanks for the sub! 👍

[@jellowiggler]

This is the binding I used on my T16000M hotas. good setup. I pretty much replicated it to my X52 and will do so again on the X56. It is my base level of function in Elite. forums.frontier.co.uk/threads/lazs-t-16000-m-fcs-hotas-bindings-v1-1.465044/ Extra throttle axis for boost forward and back, and menu tab navigation. Pinky roller for next/last target. Changed 4th finger to be modifier and added some secondary functions such a push to talk and more targeting. I taped over the light on the stick with electrical tape.

[@p655321]

After 6 months of use my z-axis broke and my throttle was sticky. Nothing a little wd40 didn't solve but at current prices the VKB Gladiator is a better buy.

[@puffthree5004]

I have seen a video of a guy opening the botton plate of the joystick and just pull out the wire that connects to the led light. problem solved.

[@joergschmidt9957]

I have the joystick and the throttel too. I thought they were quite good at first. The potentiometers are shit quality. I don't use them much and yet the problems started shortly after the warranty ended. Just a few days ago I replaced the potentiometer on the Throttel. The joy didn't last long. Now the mini-stick is moving down. The Z-axis of the joystick also twitches around.

[@ArveyJay]

Watch my repair video if you like, as that fixed the twist rudder at least.

[@JacobYaw]

My Yaw crapped out after a year of medium use. Sad to see it go. :(

[@matthewpiper4328]

Get a replacement, should come with a 3 year warranty.

[@yumpinyiminy963]

I have this Hotas pair. When I try just to setup a simple "s" curve with a small dead zone for the joystick and analog small joy on the throttle. I get a fatal error in my saved .fcf file. I get an error in the .fcf file for ED from Thrustmaster and that has an error as well but will still work. Any ideas? Can you use these without the Target software?

[@ArveyJay]

Several people in this comments section have made it work without it. Personally I did fire it up just the once, saw the complexity, and noped right out again. Perhaps try to remove the curves or restore to default and see how that treats you? I found the bog standard defaults to be very good. o7

[@EspenFrafalne]

Everyone complain about TARGET, but to anyone thinking this controller is not for them, let me tell you that setting up curves and deadzones is VERY quick and easy with this software. There is also a second page of settings, where i think maybe you can set up macros or something - and i do NOT understand that page - but i also dont need it, so im not having any issues at all with this software.

[@Trueflights]

Nice video. Now if only MS Flight Simulator coming out hadn't doubled the price of every joystick and hotas on the market at the moment...

[@ArveyJay]

Really, oh that SUCKS! Thanks for the feedback though. Hopefully stock goes up again soon eh?

[@campbecd]

I didn't follow the comment about not being able to navigate menus? Are you saying it's more cumbersome than other sticks, or that it's impossible to do so?

[@ArveyJay]

Hey mate the in-game menus are super easy. I think I was referring to the target software that comes with the stick.

[@Mattes985]

i don´t use the target software. i didn´t work, i could only use the stick or the throttle with it, not both. without the software the hotas was shown in the options, with the software ionly the standart options were shown

[@ArveyJay]

Hmmm good to know you have to run it at least once. 👍

[@akaBeaucoupFish]

Both devices work fine without the target software installed. Maybe it's a USB power issue, but whatever it is, it's probably not the software.

[@mutantender1099]

Did you start to get any damages in the twist for the joystick, what’s basically used for rudders?

[@ArveyJay]

Ah, I see you found my other video on the fix for that. Good stuff

[@DobbsyLondon]

The wobbly stuff, can be rectif8ed with a tiny tiny amount of screwdriver and shim. I tightened the slide and added some lithium grease tonmake it smooth AND tight. (No laughing)

[@sdhiousdfyhsdioufsdoiufh]

is it a better purchase than Hotas One? I'm completely green. Planning my first flight joystick purchase. I am fine with the price point.

[@ArveyJay]

Yes. Build quality and number of buttons alone makes it better. The only reason you might prefer a hotas one is if you have a console platform and want to use it on both that and PC as well. That's the only advantage.

[@GBCobber]

Just ordered one for Star Citizen. I hope it's at least as good as the sidewinder Precision Pro (not the Pro2. that's crap). I use a circle cut from car tube rubber, with a hole in the middle for the stalk. Anything would do I guess but tube rubber is nice and soft. Not to hide an annoying light but to reduce the dust and grime falling into the ball and socket. So Now i Guess I'll be able to kill two birds with one stone.

[@williamvesterberg1107]

Do you still own the t16000m with the twcs throttle and if so would you still recommend it after all this time

[@ArveyJay]

it's still running fine after all this time, with one Z axis twist rudder repair needed in it's whole life. Used it just yesterday with no issues. It's possible however that there are better products on the market now given how old it is.

[@campbecd]

Can you be specific with how you manage the inputs for the FSS menus on this device?

[@ArveyJay]

Yep I'll be doing a dedicated video on on this in the very near future! Thanks mate.

[@Serxne_]

As someone who's going from VR/controller ED to VR/HOTAS ED, would you say it's worth the investment to 3D print and stick something to the side buttons to differentiate them or just grow into them?

[@ArveyJay]

Hmmm great question. I'd perhaps go as far as to stick some elevated shapes to them since you would be able to FEEL them a bit better. As they are, they're very flat and hard to feel when you can't see them. You might even be able to get away with some self-hardening putty to make blobs... you've got me thinking. Let me know how you go I'd be interested to hear your solution. In short, yes the buttons are hard to feel on the stick, but because you can program the hat switches on the throttle to do whatever you want, that's effectively 12 extra buttons (total 20 functional buttons) which may be enough for your needs so you may only need a few things programmed to the stick base buttons. From memory, I've got galaxy map, system map, lights, HUD mode switch, retract hardpoints, landing gear, cargo scoop and a few other bits and bobs that I can afford to take the extra second to find the button, but wouldn't recommend stuff you need to find in combat.

[@Serxne_]

@@ArveyJay that's not a bad idea for programming that to the side buttons. I've looked at the ED given configuration through Reddit and winced, but I know how easy it is to reconfigure these too.

[@Beer_Dad1975]

Hi Jay, just curious are you a Kiwi or an Aussie? (your accent is kinda hard to pick) - only asking because I'm based in Hamilton so thought you might be a local.

[@ArveyJay]

Hey bro, Aussie but originally from Europe so perhaps there's some carry-over with the accent... or maybe I just can't talk properly :)

[@therealspesch220]

Only from curiosity.. could you share your button layout mapping? Thx! Btw: great video!

[@ArveyJay]

No worries I'll do a video on it soon. Thanks

[@ares2067]

White lithium grease on the bars of the sliding chassis inside the throttle body will fix that.

[@mercster]

I asked on your previous video, but didnt see this one so I'll ask...for Elite:Dangerous, is the TARGET software even needed? As far as I can tell, the in-game E:D settings will cover everything..?

[@ArveyJay]

Hey mate, there was a comment from someone else saying they had never run the software and it worked fine for them so it seems like that's the case yes. I think if you can avoid it... avoid it! 😀👍I don't think I can 'un-run' it to test, but it does seem to work for people.

[@mercster]

@@ArveyJay Gotcha...I have the T16000FCS stick right now, and E:D sees all the buttons/axes/etc, I never ran TARGET...I'm adding the thruster next month and hope not to have to use it! Cheers.

[@ArveyJay]

@@mercster you will LOVE the throttle it's the best bit 😀👍

[@akaBeaucoupFish]

It's not necessary to install, and I think it adds new emulated devices. i.e. without the software you'd have the joystick (and throttle), named whatever and accessible directly, and after the software is installed, you'd find differently named emulated controllers showing up - which would mean your ED config would no longer work if you decided to install the software after using it without. The emulated versions would allow you to assign keyboard keys to buttons, change axis curves etc. So if you have hardpoints bound to U, you could bind a button to keyboard key U without changing anything in your ED controls config. Without the software, you'd bind the joystick button directly to hardpoints (e.g. in the second column). PS My z-axis / yaw has begun to fail :( Also the top 4-way, which I also use for menu items (so one of the menu displays will keep popping up without being requested) :( I do quite like the button layouts (I use the two throttle buttons as different modifiers, meaning I can say use the side throttle button as boost, as hyperspace with modifier 1, and jump with modifier 2 - you can even have both modifiers held down for another set of options). But it does feel like cheap plastic, and in VR I notice this even more. I wish there was a mid-level HOTAS option (what the X56 was supposed to fill, if it wasn't plagued with issues). I've even looked at the high end (Virpil, VKB, which look amazing but are expensive). PS Thought this was a new video, didn't notice the comment dates!

[@mercster]

@@akaBeaucoupFish Haha no problem, thanks for the reply. Yes I find it better not to use TARGET software... I didn't find a need for it anyway. I've been playing flight sims lately, I use the paddles on the back of the throttle for yaw (although I don't know if that would work well in a space sim). I thought the X56 got pretty good reviews? (especially the grey one after Logitech bought Saitek). Thanks. PS One of those VKB sticks is only like $90 which isn't that far off, and you could use the TWCS throttle which I agree is awesome.

[@Cambion7]

I'd say that I love the T16000M HOTAS for this game. It's functional, has great features. I'm also going say that the quality of this HOTAS is JUNK. I've flied with this for a few months, and the joystick rudder twist went freaky on my; meaning that it stopped holding at 0 and got drift. I ordered a new T16000M stick to replace the failed one, and under three months the new stick is also having the same problem. The Throttle paddles are also tweaky. Go to either the right or left panel, and tap the paddle to switch tabs, it skips tabs... meaning it too won't hold 0. I'm giving up on this stick, which is sad. Because it IS a great stick. But having two sticks fail for the same reason, and still being new... just can't give it the nod it should deserve.

[@ArveyJay]

That sucks man! Did you try going into the (dreaded) joystick software and increasing deadzones? Hope you found another stick that works.

[@Cambion7]

@@ArveyJay I tried deadzones to no avail. I just ordered a Saitek X52 so we'll see if the quality of that stick works out. But man I really love the T16000M layout.

[@ArveyJay]

@@Cambion7 good luck with it. Hope it works out for you. Let me know how it is. Cheers.

[@InTheBlinkPod]

Would I be able to play First person shooters with this? Or other games? Just curious

[@ArveyJay]

Wow I never thought of playing FPS with this. I would doubt it. You can of course play stuff other than elite using this, flying games in particular and driving games maybe, but anything which benefits from twin thumbsticks or button combos probably not. 👍

[@CoreHawk3D]

Demo video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/iF7SZZaaaLaWnsk

[@SumPatti]

you should have more subscribers for the quality for your content.

[@ArveyJay]

Thanks mate. I agree but you know ... the algorithm 🤷‍♂️ 🤣

[@DiggitySlice]

I can't imagine this ever being the best for ED, it just doesn't have the buttons.

[@gamesturbator]

Bought mine on Ebay. Wished I'd known about the x56 as it closely resembles that piece of shit X55 Rhino that died in less than 2 months. But I loved the button and switch layout poor quality control be damned.

[@Cambion7]

Nice video. I"ve never installed the TARGET software and use this very same setup. The only issue I'm having is at zero throttle, I still get 1 to 3 speed. I'm thinking of just setting a little deadzone. Otherwise it's a damn good HOTAS for Elite Dangerous. That twisty pinky knob on the throttle I mapped to zoom on the radar/sensors.

[@ArveyJay]

Hey Scott, thanks for the comment. Ironically probably running the software will iron out the deadzone issue. Good tip for the zoom control, I think I might set it up like that too. Cheers mate.

[@winnythekahuna8073]

The T16000m rudder twist is garbage. I bought a twin stick setup and both sticks have failed in the twist rudder department. Beware !! The software it comes with is also mediocre and has no Windows quality Labs testing certification. Driver issues come up when using the Thrustmaster software.

[@seebarry4068]

Target was gross. Easier to do it individually.

[@gamesturbator]

I have ED. Doctors are no help.

[@hunter-c3r]

Very poor quality on this HOTAS, I regret buying it, after 4 months the twist axis, mini joystick and throttle pedal are faulty they are working on their own, and it is causing problems, and the joystick armrest is wobbly, I expected more quality for such a price.

[@ArveyJay]

That sucks but it should be within warranty after just 4 months. Go and get another or your money back, it may have been a lemon if so much is going wrong with it! Here's a link to a video fixing the twist rudder, at least that might help kzbin.info/www/bejne/nYfdmXidfbhnmKM

[@hunter-c3r]

@@ArveyJay Hey, thnx for the video, did that and it works fine now, but I've read along the forums etc that the problem will emerge again so... lets hope not so soon;D Wonder if I can do the same with the throttle pedals.

[@patriot5891]

It's a cheap toy, sorry.

[@campbecd]

Great review, any other specific issues you'd like to talk about?