[3.7] Piecing Together Ancient Teyvat - A Genshin Impact Timeline Theory

[@iSpotJosh]

Glad to see our Genshin Archaeologist droppin’ another revelatory lore vid 😀 💯

[@eisflamme2438]

Historian.

[@Junjou0305]

@@eisflamme2438 It's a reference to Ashikai's talk in Sevy's podcast

[@iSpotJosh]

@@Junjou0305 👏🏻 ⬆️ 👏🏻

[@Zarozian]

I didn't expect another attempt at a timeline.

[@brofourtwenty2143]

Genshin Thesbian indeed

[@lwazinkasawe3887]

I'd love to witness the dropping of a celestial nail in game, like a statement from Celestia saying "fuck off and stay in your lane" in game

[@morax5015]

yeah I still remember those fake "leakers" said(before 3.2) that the the electro gnosis would be destroyed and celestia would drop a nail at Inazuma because of it and that's why update 3.3 will feature wanderer and raiden rerun because the story will revolve around them.. i was hyped only to be disappointed hahahha

[@naveriru6982]

@@morax5015 I mean, at least Nahida's bargain with Dottore was enough to set up the idea of ''If a Gnosis gets destroyed, then Celestia *might* wake up and all hell will break loose''. Also I doubt Hoyo would send a nail at Inazuma, the implications of droping a destructive object (like a nuke) into a nation which is heavily inspired by Japan would be... a bit controversial.

[@laikeree_4213]

​@@naveriru6982 Ai- yeah- you do have a point 😬

[@Hur1hur2hur3hur4]

I mean, we right now don't see any place where nail was dropped in Fontaine, and Celestia is RIGHT above the Fontaine so this might happen there

[@MrJakeros]

Considering what just happened in the newest archon quest - we might get to see that soon.

[@sheep2826]

I love how morally unclear the history of Teyvat is. For a long time we’ve assumed that Celestia is probably the ultimate enemy of the story, but if forbidden knowledge truly causes the world to decay then measures like culling the world of weaker gods begins to be less cut-and-dry morally.

[@staarfall5317]

celestia seems to be very interested in forbidden knowledge and stopping it. apep mentioned she was hit with a celestial nail when she tried to bring forbidden knowledge to sumeru, and if we think deep enough, a lot of teyvat problems may be rooted in forbidden knowledge. we know of some things in sumeru like eleazar, the withering, the capsules, etc, but whats to say forbidden knowledge must stay in sumeru? what if the dark energy causing most problems is from forbidden knowledge? the archon war, the cataclysm, the karmic debt the yakshas withstand, the history of inazuma and orobashi, the war in inazuma, etc... they could all be caused by forbidden knowledge

[@brigittahegarini7162]

@@staarfall5317 But from this came another question. Why Forbidden knowledge existed in the first place?

[@yoisakikanade_]

​@@brigittahegarini7162the way i understand it is that its like an outside contaminant to the very sterile and safe environment of teyvat, its a variable that hasnt been accounted for and therefore causes problems. teyvat is a very controlled and safe environment and yeah like. outside knowledge from beyond the world is harmful to it

[@amethystmoonlight7429]

@@brigittahegarini7162 I think it's because the dragons want to find a way to defeat the primordial one (i mean who won't want to find a way to retrieve their homeland?). And they discovered forbidden knowledge. This is what they used in the "2nd war" against the primordial one.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

The Moon is the most important visual motif for Hoyoverse, the very first Mihoyo game was FlyMe2TheMoon featuring Kiana as the girl flying to the Moon. Every single game since then has featured Kiana, and in Genshin she is the Unknown Goddess who is said to be the Sustainer of Heavenly Principles. Kiana is Hoyoverse's "Mickey Mouse", their most important character and in Honkai 3rd is paralleled to the Chinese moon goddess Chang'E, exiling herself to the Moon to save humanity. There's also tons of Moon related lore in Genshin, even Liyue and Mondstadt are named after the Moon as "Glassy Moon" and "Moon City", resin is in the shape of the moon etc. During Yoimiya's 2nd story quest, when was talking about fireworks and meteors, she said "One represents the past, and the other the future. They both bloom in the sky but have completely different meanings behind them." This scene is always set to night, when she says this, the camera points directly at Celestia first, then cuts to the Moon, as if telling us that Celestia represents the past and the Moon the future. This is extremely interesting to me because the Moon is the "future", the point of Destiny in all Hoyoverse games, FlyMe2theMoon, Honkai Gakuen, Honkai 3rd, all had The End/Finality occur on the Moon, it is the future point of Destiny that all characters must over come. Kiana the Herrscher of Finality is the Goddess of the Moon, and she is the Heavenly Principles in Genshin. I feel that the game is telling us that we met Heavenly Principles in the past at Celestia, and in the future we will meet her again on the Moon, or maybe she is now the Moon, if we're considering the Moon Sisters theories. The Moon represents Finality/Destiny in Hoyoverse, it is the place you see in the distance every night, a point in space-time where you will reach for and overcome in the future, it is the end point of your dreams. And when Finality happens, a new Origin begins, reaching the Moon has also been the end of part 1 of the story for both Honkai Gakuen and Honkai 3rd, starting a completely new arc focusing on new themes and stories.

[@essendossev362]

THANK YOU. I *love* across the Hoyoverse lore. I personally have no interest in playing Honkai (because I don't enjoy that style of gameplay) but I want so much to know all the lore and how it ties in with the Genshin universe.

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

@@essendossev362 No problem, here's a bonus that's a very unexpected connection between Baizhu and the final antagonist of Honkai 3rd part one that took place on the Moon. Baizhu described his predecessors as "moths that throw themselves into the flame, seeking a glimmer of hope in a dark world filled with pain and suffering". People who willingly sacrifice themselves to help the world. This line is a direct reference to the Fire Moths from Honkai Impact and their objective, a group of individuals, the 13 Flame Chasers who sacrificed everything to trailblaze a path of hope for humanity. A group of moths who burnt themselves getting too close to the flame of hope and as their bodies burnt, they left a path of light for others to follow in the darkness of despair. This trailblazing spirit is carried on by the path of Trailblaze Aeon Akivili in Honkai Star Rail. This motif of a moth too close to a flame is also directly referenced by Signora and visualised in the Winter Night's Lazzo fatui trailer as a literal fire moth whose sacrifice has reaffirmed the determination of the Harbingers. This is one of the many reasons why people see the 11 Harbingers as a parallel to the 13 Flame Chasers. He then described himself "...For a selfish moth like me, who's afraid of the flame, yet yearns for the light, the only path forward is up towards the moon". This line describes the actions of the final Fire Moth, who flew to the moon and made the final sacrifice, the final chapter of Honkai Impact part 1. This character is known as Kevin Kaslana, the ancient ancestor of Kiana Kaslana from the previous era, and while he looks completely different from Baizhu, it turns out he has the same VA, so Hoyoverse planned this. Kevin AKA the Serpent is the leader of the World Serpent/ Ouroboros. He inherited this name for his dead comrades, who sacrificed themselves to save the world and the Serpent is a scientist called Mobius who created immortality and was the one who gave Kevin and their comrades immortality. Kevin devised a plan where he would absorb all the Honkai that's plaguing the world turning himself into a monster, isolate himself on the moon away from humanity and allowed himself to be defeated by Kiana and her comrades. As a moth that once strayed too far from the light, in the end he was able to join his comrades and burned as the brightest Fire Moth. So both Baizhu and Kevin are voiced by the same VA, are friends with a snake that grants immortality, is willing to sacrifice themselves by taking in all the suffering in the world onto themselves and looked to the moon, quoting and calling themselves moths who flew too close to the flame.

[@Arcanewhim]

@@GuyWithAnAmazingHatoh god, I knew Baizhu was gonna have a cooler role in genshin but now I’m very hyped

[@laikeree_4213]

These theories are so deep and well thought out!

[@mulf4812]

It's easier to say that the sustainer is the or a corrupted moon aka kiana

[@Ravenna.E.Blackbird]

*New insight* regarding the 3 Moons following the Merusea world quest chain in 4.0: Verenata, a Melusine potioneer, developed a credible "True Sight" potion. After consuming this potion, another Melusine named Topyas said this in a dizzy haze: "Wololo... *So many moons... One, two, three..."* Along with other visions/memories induced by this potion which turned out to be true, we're inclined to believe that this little detail proves the existence of the 3 Moons!

[@Indian_gae_boii]

its also interesting to note that in the final floors of the abyss you can literally see a giant moon, and in the we will be reunited trailer when we witnessed khanreah destruction, we saw a giant red moon...even though khanreah is underground, so my theory is that one of the moon roams in the sky, one ended up in the abyss and one was underground in khanreah because like....where else can dead bodies the size of MOONS can even end up, if the moon sisters were as fat as the ones we see in teyvats skies, they simply couldnt have just crumbled and fallen without their remains being scattered evrywhere, hence i make this theory

[@worm2976]

Are you saying the corpses of the moons looke down upon us in the damned spiral?

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

The mares on the moon are the same as the Terran moon (ie "the moon" in real life). The only weird thing is the moon in Spiral Abyss I think shows half of the dark side of the moon (which means a picture from outer space was used).

[@staarfall5317]

@@DavidJohnson-ib1dh but teyvat doesnt really have an "outer space" so i assume its just a design choice to fit the theme of the abyss

[@Iamsosigma123]

Im pretty sure the scene of Khaenri'ah getting destroyed we saw was the 'upper' part of Khaenri'ah. pretty sure Khaenri'ah was just about to move their nation to the surface or so, but then the Cataclysm happened. I forgot where this was mentioned in, but this is as I remember. my memory is trash so do forgive me if I am wrong.

[@akaridragneel5146]

The giant red moon we saw was during the fall of the eclipse dynasty of Khaner'iah. After the eclipse dynasty fell they went underground.

[@losergamer04]

If forbidden knowledge was likened to a "rising tide of delusion" is it possible that forbidden knowledge is part of a Fatui Delusion?

[@RenaDeles]

That's an interesting thought, we know they're made with dead god bits, but maybe it has to be dead god's that have been infected with forbidden knowledge 🤔

[@yannikovsky7041]

arent delusions made from the matter of corrupted gods? i thought so at least

[@liathelie8805]

@@yannikovsky7041 yeah but what the gods were corrupted by was forbidden knowledge so it comes down to it anyway

[@sirbercouligaming1956]

Random thought .. we assumed the mention of the black dragon in the dragon spine was due to dvalin, but after the nahida story quest with apep, what if the princess was actually referring to Nibelung the dragon king. Apep described him as a black dragon. If that is the case, then we had mention of Nibelung without a name since 1.1/1.2. that's crazy.

[@res6148]

That would be insane (in a cool way)

[@brigittahegarini7162]

I kinda hope this is real, as in, that is dragon the princess saw

[@akaridragneel5146]

Well we can kinda confirm Sonnet and Aria's existence since Venti's skill is called skyward sonnet and ost that plays at night ( or specifically at mondstadt during the night) is called Dream Aria. Also in the web toon ( first chapter) when venti asks what happened to mondstadt he seem to think of three dancing figures in one of the panels

[@vera_light]

Interesting mentions

[@TheJH1015]

I think you might be forgetting that sonnet and aria are two forms of music/songs. And Venti is a bard.

[@aspillust]

@@TheJH1015yeah but it doesn't mean that this can't also be true, since those are the moon sisters' names as well

[@sakabambaspiss]

I've heard that the three dancing figures were referring to the Wanderer's Troupe tho?

[@vergiltasev7108]

@@sakabambaspiss The wanderer's Troupe are supposed to be four tho. The Conductor, the Sojourner, the Swordsman and Kreuzlied. However, something that crossed my mind was that perhaps Venti was one of them and that is why he thinks only of the other three. Why would I consider this? First, obviously he knew them and they were the first thought that came to his mind when he heard about what was happening in Mondstadt. The next point both gives credit and invalidates what I am trying to present. The Wanderer's Troupe are most well known for their sadly unsuccessful attempt at bringing down the Lawrance clan during the Aristocracy period (which kinda laid the foundation for Venessa's Rebellion). This personally reminds me a little of the group that brought down Decarabian in Old Mondstadt. There we had the Red-haired warrior (An ancestor of Ragnvindr, who was very close with the Swordsman), Amos who weilded a bow like the Sojourner, the Nameless Bard and Barbatos, who both resemble the Conductor wielding the Widsith, although Barbatos seems more like the Sojourner with the bow. This is where things start falling apart. Not to mention that Kreuzlied is a claymore user and the only relevant thing was the german word Lied in their name meaning song or a poem. Also let's not go into the timeline. It is certain that Vennessa still hasn't began her Rebellion in that Manga cnapter, but how long has it been since Wondere's Troupe's unsuccesful uprising. And it seemed like Venti just woke up from his loooong nap. I am sorry for the rant.

[@galaxydove]

I don't think the sinner and King Deshuret are the same person, i think the sinner has been here... for a long while. Remember, the dragons ruled the land then Celestia came and took it from them, then something else came to fight Celestia for the land. I think that was "the sinner". Whatever energy or entity he is.

[@carolineribeiro9063]

Isn't the Second Who Came the Celestia of today, though?

[@Dylangillian]

@@carolineribeiro9063 No it has been established that the Second Who Came lost to the Primodial one. Personally I think the Second is the Sinner though.

[@Indian_gae_boii]

@@carolineribeiro9063 nope, phanes still rules teyvat, nabu malikatas exact words to deshret when he revealed his plans to overthrow celestia were - "seek not the master of the 4 shining shades" (flower of paradise lost artifact set) meaning phanes, aka the master of the shades rules celestia still

[@rrr87011]

I thought the sinner was gold aka albedos mom because she released her monsters into the world after the cataclysm

[@ScarfmonsterWR]

​@@DylangillianHas it really been confirmed outside of Enkanomiyans maybe possibly suspecting without a way to check?

[@marfaleon7025]

Honestly it feels like timeline works in some sort of samsara, events repeat themselves, but not 100% identically. Situation with old Mondstadt really appears to be same as Inazuma arc with Raiden. Both were scared of outside world and wanted to protect own people, due to fear both Archons went for barrier for their respective nations - Decarabian used wind and Ei used thunder. Both were considering their actions to be best methods, both had rebels rise against them to seek outside world (let's not forget people trying to flee from Inazuma) but in case of their situation Ei's one didn't fully repeat Mondstadt due to "unexpected factor" called Traveler. Deshret's civilization in my mind became predecessor of Khaenri'ah fall, they don't share 100% similarity but it doesn't have to. So far I think that learning more about past cities/nations would give us ways to make guesses about future of Natlan, Snezhnaya and Fontaine

[@yannikovsky7041]

+the whole journey of our travellers (mine's Aether) seems to mirror sibling's journey, we even help natives with similar problems, especially the most obvious is Sumeru's creatures like aranara and pari who are the only ones who recall sibling+dain duo and their heroic deeds, they also openly compare us. The idea of current traveler being our sibling in a new samsara makes even more sense narratively especially

[@worm2976]

So history repeats, but does not replicate itself. Maybe because of Teyvat's "Laws" which only allow certain consequences to result from certain events. In our world, metal and acid will always give us metal salt and water. A massive body will exert gravitational force. etc Maybe the Teyvat Laws are like that, as in, certain types of actions are guaranteed to have certain specific results (and not yanno "Thou shalt not steal" type Laws)

[@laikeree_4213]

​@@worm2976 Hmm, kinda like canon events in tge Spiderverse? No matter which timeline, but a certain thing has to happen to every spiderman (basically losing someone they're close witg) or else their world crumbles apart (unless there's some intervention, like Traveler for Genshin). Not sure what will happen if a certain "canon event" in Teyvat's samsara gets prevented, exactly, but it's some crumbs to gather

[@worm2976]

@@laikeree_4213 I'm not familiar with the spiderverse, but from your description - that's not really what I meant. You may be right, there might be pivotal event that happen in every timeline/bubble universe/samsāra. That would put it closer to honkai actually 🤔 What I meant was more like a result B will always followed event A. If you want to avoid B happening, then you must avoid doing A. If you do A even accidentally, B will always follow. Like trying to do a nationwide lockdown will always end in civil war and victory of the citizens (Decarabian and Ei like OP said). Understanding Teyvat too well may always bring a forbidden knowledge plague (Deshret cland Khaenri'ah we're both scientifically extremely advanced + the Akademiya BANS anyone from studying the origin of words/language maybe for fear of this) etc

[@laikeree_4213]

@@worm2976 Ah I see! And yeah, looking at the samsara that happened in Sumeru 🤔

[@sylvarogre5469]

Thanks for another fun and informative video. Some ideas: With this timeline, it is also possible that Decarabian was trying to protect humanity from Forbidden Knowledge, but was so effective at eliminating it that nobody remembered why he did it. It could be that Decarabian destroyed Andrius physical form to cleanse him of Forbidden knowledge. (I can't remember how Andrius became a spirit or if it was explained. So that part could be way off.)

[@gabrielcolins5784]

He sacrificed his body to free Mondstadt from the frost he created and to give life back to the land. At least thats what I remember.

[@res6148]

Andrius was going to be the archon but his cold powers destroyed the land and thats why he sacrificed his body and gave up his archonhood I think.

[@v.v365]

I don’t remember if you’ve made this comparison before but it feels like the Seelies before were akin to angels in Christianity, envoys from heaven, but after the fall they became more like their namesake, Seelie fae or fairies, mysterious and unknowable spirits that inhabit the world unlike angels who reside above the world

[@uribove]

If I recall correctly she did an entire video on angels and cherubim etc to link all the angel-like creatures to their genshin counterparts. I think

[@ZeNo_.]

Nah bro this is crazy 💀💀 After 5.1

[@mint_blue9116]

You were so right

[@mariopanczel8581]

Here we go again Ashikai's arch nemesis: Teayvat's moon(s)

[@ollymeetsworld4218]

Crack theory: since we don't know exactly what the gonses are but everyone assumes they hold some kind of power, what if they act like celestial nails to keep forbidden knowledge away? Also, assuming the Abyss Order has access to forbidden knowledge, it's interesting to notice everytime we met an abyss herald or lector it was outside of reach of archons - in secret domains, in Enkanomiya and in the old aranara village (which got corrupted in the cataclysm). Combine this with the fact that the Tsaritsa seems to be looking into the abyss (she kept sending Scaramouche there), what if the reason why she needs the gnoses is so she can bring into the world forbidden knowledge but the existence of the gnoses stops her from doing that?

[@liathelie8805]

this is supported by the fact that when in the sumeru archon quest nahida threatened dottore that she would destroy the gnosis, she said it would cause celestia drop a nail on sumeru in consequence, possibly implying that the celestial nail would act as a substitute measure to keep the forbidden knowledge away

[@aidanf8705]

@@liathelie8805 there is no nail in Inazuma, no? And they are without a gnosis

[@liathelie8805]

@@aidanf8705 I meant a destroyed gnosis, not a stolen one

[@Mont11037]

@@aidanf8705 I’m pretty sure it was said that there is a nail on Tsurumi Island.

[@amouramarie]

If so, that would make the archons' sacrifice in willingly giving up their gnoses incredibly noble - essentially accepting that they may now be infected with forbidden knowledge and become a target of Celestia.

[@wakawakawakawaka8804]

We gotta wait a whole day! 😭

[@shinkamui]

already waited for 500 years anyway in teyvat time 🫡

[@Sacration]

Fr like 😭 im hoping its a very long video

[@BloodAngel_San]

After kafka dies down a little

[@akiraokami]

I am so not caught up on the "side lore" of Genshin, I was heavily into Genshin until some personal stuff happened about a year and a half ago and since then I've only barely logged on to do dailies and only when I've had the energy to. I really should get caught up on the story, I haven't even done the new Klee event yet which I really should... Edit: Ended up going off on a bit of a tangent, forgot to mention what I was gonna say "So I appreciate these videos, helping me catch up on the lore a bit"

[@efrainlagunas]

I think Apep said something along the lines of "when he (dragon king) returned, he was different". I took it as more of a confirmation that the dragon sovereign are born and created by built up elemental energy, but I can see how it could also mean that after the king ventured to gain more power, he returned as if a different being in terms of personality. To me, the sovereigns being creatd by elemental energy brings to question of when did the gnosis and visions come to be? Was it perhaps, after the dragon king was reborn, hmmmm? Flatly, I'm theorizing that the gnosis and visions were made to prevent the dragons from coming back by having elemental energy being used, or stored into visions and gnosis. Maybe the Fatui's whole plan of collecting the gnosis is to release them and help create the age of dragons once again.

[@Rozherhn]

what it does not take into account are the references to the opera of the ring of the nibelungulo that there is in khaenria and that it seems that there is a relationship with the dragon king that is called nibelungulum. Among that reference is the very name of Dainslief, King Irmin, the mention of the ring, the Alberich, and other details such as the destruction of Khaenria itself. It is also that the current dragonesa does not seem to be against humanity and in fact they are in favor of it, azdaha took care of liyue but was contaminated by the abyssal energies of the abyss, and apep is one of the originals that is now purified at least no longer He will have that hatred that consumed him because of the forbidden knowledge.

[@KurtacusRex]

@5:15 I think about this specificially a lot. We hear all about zhongli but he was around for the moon sisters and pretty much every instance of forbidden dara. Like he is older than enkanomiya.

[@mekinot]

This timeline blew my mind, but it makes soooooooo much sense. And if you're right, I love this idea because it shows the effects a huge event had all around the world. It feels true to real life, you can see a bunch of different events disconnected from one another if you study the history of a single place, but when you put it into a world perspective, things are much more connected than you'd initially thought. This is really good. Also, this left me thinking: then was the traveler from afar actually the second who came? Did one of the moons fall in love with him and, perhaps, betrayed the primordial one, which caused everything that happened afterwards? It could explain the primordial one's wariness of the GoF. They didn't want her to do the same thing the moon did, so they casted her away from Heaven. I wondered for a bit why wouldn't they just kill her instead, but if the GoF had a curse or something like that that would kill her if she spoke of Forbidden Knowledge or the things she knew... it could explain why she died. Anyway I went off on a tangent, I wanted to actually focus on the traveler from afar maybe being the second who came.

[@brightshadow4476]

here after that particular cutscene

[@nekryone4366]

New character teaser for Lyney has quite a focus on the moon, emphasis on reality and fantasy and illusions. I think we might get something related to the moon sisters from him, considering there's 3 siblings. It's a stretch but interesting 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@Hur1hur2hur3hur4]

Ooooh, that also reminded me how Sabzerus arc was focused on illusions as well, and Nahida called herself a moon But i remember all of it vaguely...

[@klutzycake]

looking forward to this timeline!! i know its been a while since we've had any form of coherent one haha

[@bluestrider2562]

My personal theory is that the Unified nation prior to the Second who came was also named Khaenri'ah. But that information was erased. But the human survivors remembered or rediscovered it, thus re-creating civilization underground based on the Unified Nation's technology and architecture. Then they honored them by naming new Khaenri'ah after their fallen forefathers. I also think that the Unifed Nation (ancient Khaenri'ah) along with the Seelies may have sympathized with the Second Who Came, who may have openly shared knowledge with them, which would also be considered forbidden. And thus, why both humanity and Seelie were in a sense punished. This theory also leads me to believe, that the traveler from afar may have possibly been one of the Traveler siblings. The travelers arrived on Teyvat, one awakens getting to know the people of the Unified Nation, either the Second Who Came arrives or the Traveler is deemed a heretic for sharing forbidden knowledge and a war ensues. The Traveler escapes manages to awaken their sleeping sibling (Aether cannon), tells them the world/Khaenri'ah is on fire and flees, running into the Sustainer. Then Aether mistakenly believes that the Khaenri'ah of 500 years ago is the one they witnessed burning but its a misconception and was actually the Unified Nation also named Khaenri'ah 4500? years ago. Khaenri'ah is rebuilt to the one we know of, and with their studies of their forebearers they learn of the Traveler who once visited ancient Khaenri'ah and discover a means of summoning/freeing the Abyssal sibling (Lumine). And of course, Lumine then goes on to witness another civilization being destroyed and is motivated to seek vengeance.

[@clementlassalle4317]

Super interesting theory

[@GuyWithAnAmazingHat]

If there's one thing people need to know about Khaenri'ah it's the Persian name of Khaenri'ah, Dahri. Dahri is what people in Sumeru called Khaenri'ahns for centuries, with locations like the Ruins of Dahri and Valley of Dahri, as well the entire Khvarena Of Good And Evil world quest. DAHRĪ (< Ar.-Pers. dahr “time, eternity”), a theo­logical term referring either to an atheist or to an adherent of the doctrine that the universe had no beginning in time. Khaenri'ahn are atheists, who believe that there's no beginning in time, which means they believe in the Teyvat cycle theory, adding to the theory's credibility.

[@Owudukan]

​@@GuyWithAnAmazingHatclose a dahri is an eternalist beliving in infinaty and that history repeas itself I recomend nitzische as he was rafranced s few times ingame aswell But it also woud explain the Name Khaenri'ah wind betrayer and i think the wind us a refrance to istroth So thay are betrayers of time in a way witch fits the dahrisem of Khaenri'ah Note the ' in Khaenri'ah is in the wrong place idk if that's on purpose or just a mistake Or watch roozevelt vidios thay explain it good

[@worm2976]

Listen, that would explain why the random ruins ALL OVER Teyvat bears architectural similarities to the Chasm ruins (which are Khaenri'ahn in style as Dain said I think).......but ALSO to Enkanomiya, which sank beneath the ground post war, knew Istaroth, knew of the primordial war, worshipped Kairos, dealt with Vishaps, has to actively seal away both the Light and Void Realms, and was not part of the Seven Nations. Enka was almost certainly a part of The Unified. If it matches Teyvat wide remains........ _which_ matches Chasm........which likely matches Khaenri'ah (the 2nd‽)........then I think we may have some architectural support for your theory. I'm screencapping ur comment for when you're proved right.

[@worm2976]

​@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat Maybe the overall Teyvat samsāra centres around the destruction, eventual re-founding / rise, and subsequent destruction of Khaenri'ah

[@haamta]

Everytime a new Ashikai vid comes out i get so excited hehehe cant wait for the juicy theory

[@MyssticalCanvas]

The mention of Khaenri'ah over 3 thousand years ago makes me wonder once again about Khaenri'ah being a domain that exists at all points in time. Like, the time inside the domain passes steadily just like outside, but you can go in and come out at ANY point in time (and that's something I've wondered ever since reading Kaeya's lore.) I could explain further and make some comparison to other media to better illustrate what I mean, but basically that's it

[@Rozherhn]

in fact sal vindagnyr existed 6000 years ago, not 3000 years ago, it is long before the arrival of decarabia and andrius to the mondstadts area, and not khaenria had commercial and political relations with the rest of the nations to the extent that the nobles married with the nobles of Khaenria.

[@paburopasillas7783]

Before 5.1: jajajaj, this theory is crazy 😆😆😆 After 5.1: 💀💀💀

[@idyotako]

I'm going to pre-like this coz the premiere is midnight my time and I'm gonna be sawing logs when this goes up. I shall catch and enjoy this when I wake up. All I know is this is going to be another great video! Can't wait to watch it! ❤

[@thinkabtkarma]

so about that moon

[@strelitzianicolai4972]

Great animations and visuals. The editing is on point. Ashikai, you’re the best.

[@eikirby]

HUHH THIS IS CRAZY i was literally searching down whole youtube for a short video like this about the timeline and couldn’t find ANYTHING like ??? this is perfect thank u sm

[@___..Blade..___]

Nice ending, "its just a theory, a game theory"

[@TheBelovedPanda]

The archon of theories has done it again! Excellent work

[@v.v365]

Wait, in the story it said the three moon sisters took turns driving “a silver lunar chariot”, would that not be the visual description of a single moon? What if there were never three moons, just three goddesses in charge of the moon?

[@v.v365]

In Greek Mythology Hecate is a moon goddess, Selene was the Titan goddess of the moon, and Artemis was the Olympian goddess of the moon, is it not plausible that there could be one moon shared between three goddesses?

[@LongLe-rh1hm]

I return here after the current archon quest. The lore about the fallen moons just make perfect sense.

[@lkrdp9463]

Nice vid! I hope we can get another one like this when Fontaine patches end. Can't wait for Fontaine lore bombs, mindblown, and "i knew it!" moments. Also, the other sibling telling us that we will understand this world after our current journey kinda feels they're implying we will have a satisfying but bittersweet ending. The fact remains that Genshin storyline has significant depth and is well-thought of. (edit: also I'm really curious if we will meet other celestial gods apart from Sustainer of Heavenly Principles and if they'll be playable)

[@I-lost-my-account-rip]

The editing in this video looks so much like a matpat video ngl good job whoever edited

[@mochimonika]

OH MY GOD-- i love ur theories and how they make sense so so so much, Ashikai, i just don't know what else to say, have a heart

[@insanecurity]

15:57 maybe that's why Andrius refused the Anemo Gnosis and gave up his physical body...

[@szasza8583]

I go with the idea that Celestia is the Ark project from Honkai, the Abyss is just another name of the sea of quanta, the nails are there to stabilize the bubble dimension called Teyvat, the archons are humans with honkai energy (though everyone have it difference comes from the degree of it), "dragons" are the original inhabitants of this bubble dimension (that is why they are so adaptable to anything). What we see in GI is that a bunch of people who try to keep under control of the Teyvat bubble but since time is weird on the surface thousands of years past while maybe a couple for them on the ship. Maybe there was even a mutiny on the ship called celestia since their actions affection innocents on the surface and thus we have the legend about the moon sisters (faction within the control ship). 'A soldier grapes a woman and another man pities the women and lives with her and raises the son together.' ... thousands of years later we have a religion about this story. What I am trying to say is what we see as legends in the game are might be totally rational moments, the question is the context. (theory videos like this basically trying to find the right context.)

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

There's a 2nd historical source (not legend) for a ... I think it was a temple to a Moon Sister that kinda had the same vibes as the temple to the Ouroboros in Enkanomiya which we're told was a fake deity. Some artifact or something just happens to mention this temple in passing. Don't remember where though it was Sumeru.

[@btang88]

Absolute video game archeology here. Thank you for putting all these together.

[@cherico94]

Just watched the Lyney trailer and they had some shade being thrown at the moon there. Lmao. The timing is insane

[@TheBilayer]

Cardinal ,7 deadly sins? Yin ☯Yang 7 heavenly virtues? 7 heavenly virtues Cardinal virtues ( the 4 shade) 1. Prudence 2. Temperance 3. Justice 4. Fortitude Theological virtues (the three moon sister) 5. Hope 6. Faith 7. Charity Neuvillette, his name is like Neutral, like the balance. Or reference to Neville Goddard

[@Rozherhn]

na. I think the 7 comes from the 7 wise men mentioned by Deshret that the goddess of flowers told her that once existed. also the 7 dragons and that the 7 elements apparently have their own will or something like that. The thing that does not fit at all the 7 virtues in the arcotnes unless they forced it.

[@TheBilayer]

@Rozherhn Haha, my guessing 😅 But one thing for sure in chinese context dragons are demon. 风魔龙。 dvalin 魔 = demon

[@Rozherhn]

@@TheBilayer First, in China, dragons have nothing to do with demons, but are divine beings, even good ones, in Europe, where they turn them bad. Dvalin comes from the Norse myths along with Durin, from the Saga of Hervör and Heidrek, the 2 dwarf eras (in this story) who forged Tyrfing, which in turn is related to Richard Wagner's opera The Nibelungulus Ring. This last one seems where they refer to Khaenria in GI and if the dragon king is called Nibelungulus. It has nothing to do with demon dragons.

[@TheBilayer]

​@Rozherhn no doubt dragon are mystical creature.

[@kartikrockon]

i have brainrot.. i misread virtues and vtubers 💀💀💀

[@edwardyates4455]

The wanderer and nahidas interactions with irminsul really make me wonder how many of the “fairytales” are just the truth weaved into a format to bypass irminsul (and the heavenly principles )

[@squidwardart]

15:30 I actually thought for a long time that decarabian had little forbidden knowledge as mondstadt has literally no fallout, maybe he isolated specifically to avoid it in the light of this video though

[@arber7240]

Super awesome analysis and video! Thank you for sharing with us, I had a blast watching this :D

[@DrakeWurrum]

AFAIK the celestial nails were thrown down to purify the corruption that Nibelung brought to Teyvat with the forbidden knowledge. They weren't used before then and were considered an act of desperation, because the Primordial One was weakened by the fight with the Second Throne at that point. Now i need to go looking to see if they were mentioned elsewhere for when Phanes first showed up... its the first ive heard of this!

[@maicariuionel6667]

The quality of her videos never dissapoint,the pure passion for this is overwhelming,i love it. All in wanted was to hear the theory scream at the end.

[@sleepycamus]

Watching you put everything into a neat tl got me thinking how new everything is... think about it, irl, modern form of humans evolved about 200,000 years ago. That's so much in comparison to +6,000 years, things happen so fast, civilizations begin and fall like it's nothing... that's quite sad to me

[@calicobunny]

congratz on the vid, lyney's trailer came out right after your vid! moons huh?

[@megha8130]

I like how the game made the primordial one just like how humans actually are. They take up any place and treat it like it's there's.

[@danielehartmann2787]

I am totally in love with this editing style. I think, this is one you let editing by someone else to spend more time doing scripts? Was on point! Nevertheless, off to the video: I still have many problems with the term "forbidden knowledge" and I think this is either a HUGE translation-mistake and it means something completly different in chinese or Mihoyo wants to confuse dumb people like me. I can't get any idea of Forbidden Knowledge because knowledge is nothing outta materia. It is wisdom, information, some kind of not even energy. particle, wave or whatever. But it is not even in the slightest way material. This makes the whole thing about it far too abstract and if the game doesn't come up in it's conclusion several years ahead with a good explanation I'm gonna be pretty mad.

[@Error_Redacted]

I think it is supposed to be abstract. It's very similar to how we define information in Science.

[@vera_light]

Well, I think Hoyoverse likes to take philosophical concepts and make them into certain energy, they do that in their other games as well. In philosophical sense, any form of knowledge or culture (in will be mentioned as knowledge from this onwards) is alive as long as it has some sort of traces or records left on world, some people may eventually discover a kind of knowledge, some follow or devoted of said knowledge, and in future, the knowledge will change shape or develop into more defined versions or different versions. It never really dies, until it is completely killed off or wiped off. But just like every form of life, knowledge might find ways into the future as well, no matter it is good or bad for human. And yea, in relation to humans, it is some kind of tools or methods we can use for anything, thus it is acceptable for me to perceive it as some kind of, "energy". In philosophical sense. Like a data in a recordable media, or even like data in a computer, a data saved as a form of energy, no?

[@uribove]

The "Forbidden Knowledge" is a direct copy of gnosticism. Something that has been shown time and time again to be an influence for Genshin If I recall correctly from hours and hours of stream content on gnosticism the forbidden knowledge is the fact that the current reigning god is an evil god that wants to keep people dumb and unaware of the real truth. That is what the snake in the garden of Eden wants to warn Adam and Eve about by having them taste of the tree of knowledge. But if Adam and Eve - the avatars of humanity - would know the truth about the god they worship, they would try and overthrow them That is exactly the same in Genshin. Forbidden knowledge is likened to everything that could possibly threaten the power of Celestia.

[@michapiasta3072]

Mine theory is if irminsul is an computer, the teyvat is the program, then forbiden knowledge is corrupted data causing bugs and glitches, like imagine elazar as loading snakes textures on humans.

[@_Flame9029]

that is an interesting pov@@michapiasta3072

[@ummm6585]

we have been blessed with food, and we shall consume earnestly in return!

[@OhItsNekoAgain]

I wonder if the sinner is the Dragon King or if he's just the SOURCE of forbidden knowledge brought to Teyvat. He was able to break the curse Celestia allegedly put on Khaenriah.

[@transient_moonlight]

"Try to put yourself in the shoes of the Primordial One" I dunno, but if I had been them, I'd have at least tried a tiny bit of diplomacy with the dragons at the beginning. Could have avoided the whole ordeal. Anyway, amazing vidfeo as usual.

[@angelmidknight3119]

The endding... im dying. I would dare anyone to find a more likeable genshin content creator.

[@nthinparticular3345]

I'm just worried and hope it has no negative consequences for her saying it like this.

[@angelmidknight3119]

I doubt it, many creators have said this before@@nthinparticular3345

[@Silly_Illidan]

let me dumb it down for you peeps. forbidden knowledge=computer virus. teyvat=your computer humans=programs/apps on your computer. archons=admin account.

[@jasminecarter5164]

Wonderful work as always, Ashikai. I look forward to what lore Fontaine brings us.

[@ahamilaag192]

2 videos so close to each other? We're eating good boys.

[@fwoom5219]

amazing video thank you so much for all your effort putting this together!!

[@acherthecat8316]

i cant even describe how much i love the whole teyvat history lore. the past wars, ancient civilization, khaenriah, they're all fascinating to uncover. i'm more interested in these side stories rather than the main storyline lol. i remember the first time i was invested with teyvat lore was when i explored the new tsurumi island back then and discover the ruins and murals, it was quite memorable.

[@rainydaydrawingz8384]

Wow I love the new style in this vid! I can imagine this took a lot more time to achieve, but it looks great!

[@JB_Yu]

But that's just a theory. A g-g-g... A GENSHIN THEORY!!! Great work as always Ashikai!

[@petrichorrs]

I'm so looking forward to this!!

[@nabieladrian]

I love now that we started using background videos backward because what is time but arrow that can be flipped.

[@Hyoutton]

Glad to see a Genshin video that's not about builds, domains, farming artifacts, characters tier list, who you should save for and things like that

[@mittenvonscrufflears7233]

Im sorry, my finger just clicked on the subscribe button before I even thought to do it the second you said you were linking all the relevant reading down below and would make furthur notes and edits. It's like... loving gelato and then eating the gelato in Italy, I love it and I can never go back

[@f.a.santiago1053]

I have stopped playing Genshin because I have no time, but I always watch your videos to keep me in the loop. The Lore is pretty amazing and you do a GREAT job at it.

[@kquack]

this channel is criminally underrated, the editing, the way she starts off the video, love it

[@kquack]

AND THE PERSONA SOUNDTRACK IN THE BACKGROUND

[@pinecin]

So looking forward to this 😭😭

[@lunar222]

so if the arrival of the second who came happened right before the archon war there are a bunch of playable characters (like zhongli, the adepti, some of the other archons) that know what teyvat was like with three moons and seelies, right?? your videos are very fun to watch and the editing gets better every time, thank you ashikai c:

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

I think your statement tends to disprove the timeline. Why does Deshret need to be told their used to be 3 moons if a bunch of folks were still alive who witnessed it?

[@halfwayATfinish]

Man, this was such a good video, bringing all the history bits together! The gods having a hunger games of sorts to purge those affected by forbidden knowledge would be a smart move, after all, it's much easier to watch 7 godly beings than hundreds of them. Also, if I'm remembering correctly, I think Zhongli mentioned some gods fled to the dark sea... where maybe more of the abyssal corruption lies, and I'd assume they wouldn't flee there unless they'd already been corrupted... Also, wishing you the best in your day job! Day jobs suck so much energy out of us, hope it gets better!

[@sylas3265]

Hmmmm well since Boreas gave up his life to give Venti the place of Archon and Liyue is filled with mystical beings that all knelt to Zhongli but he was also the only demon god around. That kinda makes sense.

[@DavidJohnson-ib1dh]

Apep says Nibelung didn't restart the rebellion until after PO had already established the Order of the Heavenly Principles, following the defeat of the dragons the first time. That rebellion is the same war as the 2nd throne war (which you can see from the description). There's no need to imagine Nails were dropped twice. The Nail Apep mentions is at the same time as the Sal Vindagnyr Nail. The bringing of FK with the 2nd throne is the same as the bringing of FK with Nibelung. You don't need to have two separate episodes of Nailing and FK-ing and heaven and earth being devastated. It's the same event.

[@travellingwaniisa6177]

Ok real talk tho - If there is a connection between say Zhongli and Kokomi, and the Dragon Sovereigns then I firmly believe it's not exclusive to the Archons.. think along the lines of Reincarnated as a Slime.. all the Demon Lords had their own identity/niche/forms and were given the title Demon Lord when they met certain requirments. So for example, Venti was a wind spirit who when he did certain things, met certain criteria for Celestia, was given his title as an Archon at the end of the war. Like Ashikai says, only the strongest and purest left at the end were fit to be Archons.. So I totally believe there's a chance that Zhongli has connections to the OG 7 Dragons but I also don't think that means every Archon will. Like Furina will probably be connected to the Oceanids

[@mon_moi]

Don't deny it Ashikai, you are the MatPat of Hoyoverse games. I think your interpretation of the Archon War makes sense, it was a test to find out the demon gods who loved humans the most. That's why all 3 known dead archons - Makoto, Rukkhadevata, and the Hydro archon - are described only with positive qualities

[@madfritz3873]

holy...not only she explodes your mind from the theory...the editing is on point as well

[@judesliggoo]

Im really happy to see your vids

[@fvdjvsfv3430]

We now have another peice of tentative proof that there are three moons: one of the melusines counted three of them while under the effects of the truesight potion.

[@lh776]

An amazing timeline overview. Thank you for putting all of this information together

[@caffeinated_uncoffee732]

@ashikai truly one of your best theories yet! (and i watch all of your videos) i was drawing while watching and then i heard the end and looked up like WUT. it was a cool moment trust me. thank you

[@TakliBansuri]

So visions are given by primordial one, humans were created and then began ascending. 2nd throne came with war and forbidden knowledge and death, while primordial one won the main battle, the darkness spread below. To incentivise a collective fight against it, since primordial guy was weak at this moment, gnosis and archon positions were offered to the battling vision holders. Only the strongest lived who were then made archons. Khanriah went underground because they saw the weakness of the primordial one against the forbidden knowledge, plus they had hubris(for some reason idk), and so they went away ro create a land of their own without gods and also defended from the abyss. Side note: the 2nd throne war would have lasted for a long time to allow khanriah to form, abyss to seep into the land, cause measurable damage and then it would be defeated. This period of war could be the reason for the going underground thing. RIP primordial one but I'm better vibes. Also maybe, just Maybe, the khanriahns thought the primordial one would lose, and so they went underground to build machines capable against a powerful entity like the 2nd throne who was both god and abyss knowledge laden. Maybe that's why khanriahn tech is multipurpose today and could have been wrongly interpreted as they're trying to wage war against the heavens.

[@yannikovsky7041]

one of the things that also confirms that khaenriah is old ahh civilization is that during many quests given by enkanomia ghosts we learned that the khaenrian students ( or scientists) were THERE to get the book of sun and moon, before or during when orobashi found enkanomia. I would not be surprised to find out that khaenriah is old OLD, predating even some modern teyvat nations like inazuma or mondstat ( old and new), because not a single piece of land is not covered with their mech. you can say that it spread around during the calamity, but i dont think soo my personal headcanon, until its proven otherwise, both khaenriah and enkanomia ( which is proven to be so) were the last remaining and true descendants of unified civilization, the only "proof" of that is the remaining similar architectural design motifs. isnt khaenrian monarchy was the last true monarchy with kings, queens and nobles? i dont think any nation had that, besides mondstat with their aristocratic rule. could that royal blood be the one that was ruling unified civilization besides the celestia? now that would interesting hehe

[@Sacration]

The wait is killing me 😭😭❤

[@windeen]

Lol about the game theory reference. Anyway, thank you for this video. I do my own theory thing but in fanfiction writing. Not able to do videos. This video helped me with a timeline issue I have been having with the founding of Khaenri'ah. I will link directly to this video when I post the chapter related to that. And post a thanks to you, as well. To give you credit. Though I doubt it will bring you any or many new viewers. Thanks again, Ashikai!

[@c0ntrl]

that's a good explanation to what make gods be gods, for some reason in the archon war everyone was a god with enough power to freely rampage as they pleased, it always felt weird to me how a small wind spirit, a weakened descendant of the seeles and an idealistic thunder god that sucks at fighting were in the same category a a mythical being capable of making a rain of massive stone spears. If every being got exposed to a certain extent to forbidden knowledge, those who didn't go mad and die instantly became stronger enough to be considered gods. ...Somehow I feel there's a hint of why visions are distributed in current era, like instead of giving a vision to everyone, Celestia only gives it to who certainly can withstand the power. Perhaps to create a new war between vision holders and those without one shall perish, this way it's possible to put the strongest vision holders in a pedestal and turn them into new gods, taking out the current archons that know of past events they want the world to forget about. And if "to be stripped of one's vision is to be stripped of one's ambition", losing a vision causes memory loss, couldn't Celestia make the new "gods" forget anything they want to be forgotten? Venti and Zhongli said something about how lies at some point always coming to light, so how many times could this "filter" of gods have been already used? Is it really impossible to erase a few thousands of years of history with nails, this filter and the Irminsul? What guarantee we have that the earliest event in Teyvat in 6000 years ago? I just woke up and saw this video while having breakfast, dunno if any of this makes sense, it's been 8 days since the video came out, there will be hardly anyone willing to read all this anyways.

[@kingskyless]

also ALSO in the solar relic from the vermillion set IMPLIES Zhongli was very young when the moons fell, and that really fuck up with the timeline x_x

[@berkaltuglu8140]

"You couldn't have just colonized an inhabited one could you?" "Shut up Derek!"

[@Silshadnic]

I wanna know what exactly were the Yaksha sealing above Guizhong's petrified body. What and Why? Was it the thing that brought her demise or was it her lingering spirit/curse or miasma seeking wrath or something like that. Because we do know what happened with the god of Salt. Even she was described as someone really merciful and loving but in the end when she was killed by her own people, it backfired on them and took them all out as well, turning them into the same fate as her. So it's possible something similar unleashed when Guizhong died and started to become a threat that they (All the Yaksha and Rex Lapis) had to seal away. Also doesn't explain how Xiao got involved so fast cuz isn't he said to be like only just over 2-3k years old? Does that mean the thing they were sealing happened a bit later after Guizhong's death? Maybe I'm completely missing here but anyone can follow this up that'd be neat.

[@karma4859]

“Have you ever heard of the Moon Sisters?” Kinda hard not to have, since I’ve watched all your videos. : )

[@willyexp5394]

Yanfei got that monetization money now she have a new house and not stay in traveller pot

[@KurtacusRex]

12 hours isnt upcoming youtube notifications! i want it now! Upcoming means "grab yo popcorn" and it aint that time yet. :-p

[@KurtacusRex]

Update: i had class but the popcorn is indeed ready and it is time.

[@bellingtoned]

Been about a jaar since ive kept up with lore lets see how much its has gotten

[@bedrockparts3953]

it's going to be so epic

[@spahgetti96]

The traveler is a descender, while their sibling married the remaining moon sister to become of the world, enabling them to utilize the abyss and survive due to their being alien.

[@sadie2914]

Thank you! This helped a lot! Much appreciated for the time line help!!!

[@Conterez]

I've been thinking about this for the last few days since watching this video. I had been holding onto the impression from the beginning of the game that the Heavenly Principles was the major antagonist of the game, but it was hard to do that since the abyss was clearly a separate power. This video helped put into context both of those forces and throws into question that villainous nature of the Heavenly Principles that I had been assuming. If some outside power was seeping in and corrupting the whole of creation, it only makes sense to do what you can to eliminate it. So we have a god trying to preserve its domain and the archons trying to do the same with theirs, with at least some kind of falling out between them; The cryo archon seemingly taking the most direct action on that falling out. Then there's Khaenri'ah, and other such people trying to live on their own without the gods, and finally the abyss order, which I think is aiming for the same goal, if a bit more zealously. Really cool how there are so many antagonists and yet at their core motivations it seems like no one is inherently evil. How they're going about their goals is something else entirely, but you can at least understand what they're all aiming for. Now if we could get a clearer understanding of what Abyssal energy/ forbidden knowledge is...

[@Zeke1460]

I feel like the Second who Came is the outlander who married the Seelie. And he started showing them stuff from outside, which was forbidden knowledge. Which made the Primordial One banish them and curse them to be ghostly whisps. The traveler and our sibling are somehow related to the second who came. That’s my guess. Possibly their kids or descendants. Would explain why we can travel from world to world, just like the Second who Came, who came from outside. And the traveler was born in another world but our sibling was born on Teyvat.

[@isaiahhaley4816]

If I’m going to be honest, it’s not a coincidence that the seven archons possess the seven elements it’s possible that combining all those elements together makes a purification that can repair will be a bit which is why they establish the seven elements system to keep order of teyvat