Ashley's Analysis | The Conflict Between Cyclists and Other Road Users

There is quite often conflict between cyclists and other road users and as with most things it's not just caused by one side. What's the saying?......."It takes two to tango"
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[@bobbelsekwol]

I just find all these people who are in a rush and can't stop or wait for a few seconds somehow always have time to turn around and have a fight or end up slowing down in front of you to slow you down. Weird.

[@cupofcustard]

Amazing how many people have time for the "it's my priority/side of the road" wardance when they're in a hurry.

[@markhamilton7289]

this. 100%

[@k-rj740]

bobbelsekwol: It's because of ego. The main reason with what's wrong with this world today is that people put their ego before other people needs and well being. That their needs are more important than others, and especially so if you think you have more right than others to do something, or to be somewhere (in this case, the road). Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand with this.

[@kostas1003]

@@cupofcustard But the cyclist did have a priority in this case

[@5wheels178]

@@kostas1003 so what. just get on with your cycle and your day.

[@mothturtle7897]

Not sure I would have even blinked at the initial incident as a cyclist.

[@TheRip72]

I wouldn't have done.

[@MyRunningJourney]

I think I would have probably expected the audi to have continued and I would have adjusted my speed before that point to let him through. More hassle than it's worth trying to be correct all the time. Whether I'm in my car or on my bike, I just want to get to where I'm going hassle free.

[@JohnSapato]

I would've just stopped, even though the drivers should have stopped. I won't escalate the situation.

[@woutervanr]

I sure wouldn't have. Then again, I'm Dutch and I trust that I've been seen.

[@julianpenfold1638]

Neither would I. TBH I had to watch that one a couple of times before I really understood what the issue was. Technically the cyclist is right I think, but speeds were reasonably low, the cyclist has nothing dangerous to his left, the Audi wasn't being erratic, it all seemed pretty safe to me. There are times when cars behave in a "might is right" fashion and squeeze cyclists in a way that's unsafe, but this didn't seem like one of those to me. It felt like the cyclist was making a general point at a time when it didn't overly apply in that specific case. Within reason I tend to think that the road space can be shared sensibly to let everyone move forward. There's a road in my town that always has parked cars on one side and never on the other. Two cars can pass eachother easily and safely at 20-30 MPH, but if you're driving on the side with the parked cars you need to stray out into the oncoming lane, and the oncoming cars need to move closer to their kerb. Most of the traffic is local and people understand what needs to be done to allow traffic to flow, but technically those on the parked car side ought to wait.

[@jasonk7072]

It annoys me how certain sections of the media have driven (sorry😀) us to the point where we’re placed in a tribe based on our particular mode of transport, somehow guilty of all of the sins of that tribe and at war with every other tribe. Like many people I fall into many camps, I’m sometimes a driver, sometimes a cyclist, a motorcyclist or a pedestrian. Each of these activities brings with it a particular set of challenges and risks and I try to account for the challenges of other road users when I’m out and about. It’s often easier for me to briefly give way to a bike in my car than the other way round, and in other circumstances I can make a small adjustment on my bike to help the motorist. We’re all just people trying to get around, take away the machine we’re operating and we’re flesh and blood and mostly decent and considerate. Sadly shouty videos generate clicks, breeding conflict against cyclists sells newspapers, but we’re better than that I think.

[@MyRunningJourney]

You've nailed it here. 👏

[@dang2651]

Well said.

[@British99]

I often think that I should fit a camera to my bike, but in a stealth position. I simply want to record the rare situations where i would need to back up what happened in a serious situation. I reel at the videos posted by some ‘vigilantes’. This was definitely a ‘mountain out of a molehill’ situation. I have had to pass drivers in tighter situations than this.

[@iniehawk4472]

Unfortunately humans are tribal and territorial by nature, so it is easy for people to encourage and take advantage of.

[@MK-1973]

Nicely put.

[@David_Addison]

“But the Audi driver has been challenged…” Your sarcasm in this comment perfectly encapsulates everything about the very insecure behaviour often displayed in these ‘something out of nothing road rage’ incidents. Perfect analysis of this extremely petty incident 👍

[@alane7903]

"If the cyclist was to lay down, on the road, wiith his bike" thank you Ashley, this is what I learned about overtaking cyclists decades ago. Pity that so many do not understand that cyclists can fall off (particularly with the damage to roads that is so usual now).

[@Strider9655]

It's not just damaged roads, certain drain covers can be lethal too, they can grab your front wheel and throw you into he road, but if you give them a wide birth the drivers behind get mad. The problems go well beyond the highway code, it's built into society, cyclists are seen almost as though they're children playing in the road, and combine that with size = status, they're considered to be subhuman.

[@iniehawk4472]

Yeah, drivers often complain about the damage potholes and such do to cars but fail to consider the impact on other vehicles

[@MrAceyJay]

The way I always think of it is by imagining there is a car there instead of the cyclist. If there isn't enough room to pass a car then there isn't enough room to pass the cyclist. This was my interpretation of rule 163 the very first time I read it, "leave as much room as if there was a car there." Especially with the illustration that goes along with it. I was a little shocked to learn other people interpreted it differently.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@Strider9655 Yes, and also manhole covers in the middle of junctions (which from a sewer/drain point of view is where they're needed, at the intersection in the pipe), often form a slippery obstacle right where a cyclist or motorcyclist is trying to turn. I've seen a couple of motorcyclists and more than a couple of pedal cyclists come off in this very situation, and now tend to keep a really good distance in case it happens in front of me.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@iniehawk4472 Indeed, a large pothole round a drain cover caused me to come off while riding 'in the gutter' (it was the 80s). I ended up covered in blood (bad case of road rash on both hands). That's when I learned to avoid the gutter :(

[@ultimatebeastgamerz]

I am a cyclist and a car driver. Whilst cycling on the road I do feel significantly more vulnerable. When cycling and cars encounter me the majority seem to forget how to drive. They will overtake to close , overtake round corners and generally risk not only me but themselves. I always give a thumbs up to drivers who give me lots of room or allow me through gaps when I have right if way etc. If more people cycled they would soon realise how intimidating traffic is and after a few close calls they would hopefully think how they drive when cyclists are around. Also trying to stay in a straight line in bad winds is a task in itself and drivers should allow more room, but I doubt many drivers would even give that a second thought. I understand not all cyclists are saints either, but there needs to be a common ground over each others safety especially as a bicycle vs car collision will only end with one winner. So think next time you see a bike , how do I treat the situation so we are both safe and do not feel at risk?

[@WestcliffGoPro]

Everything they said 👆🏻 💯%

[@teapotpete]

Having ridden a bicycle I can say for certain that I am much more considerate when driving a car. With great power comes great responsibility.

[@cjreeve79]

Many entitled motorists don't think cyclists should be allowed to use the roads. Its not that they don't think to give them space, the actively intimidate them to show their discust or power. "Punish passes". Why is it even a thing?

[@mr8I7]

Why not just sell the bicycle and use the car all the time?

[@WestcliffGoPro]

@@mr8I7 erm……..exercise maybe 🤔

[@cupofcustard]

"Imagine the cyclist lying on the floor" that's a great visual tip Ashley. Was never taught that. I'll try to remember it when driving!

[@kevinspence6283]

I'm a keen road cyclist and what some car drivers need to understand is that we need to avoid sections of the road that are damaged and can cause damage to the bike wheels or for us to lose control. So sometimes we do need to use the center section of the road and are unable to keep to the left tight to the curb side. Please give cyclists lots of room as we don't get to be in an accident and just swap insurance details :)

[@CED99]

If the cyclist had squeezed past and had a wobble, I'm sure the driver would have been the first to complain 🙄

[@DamnedDamnedDamned1]

Yes but back to the video that features absolutely none of that.. I mean come on the guy is obviously a drama queen. He didn’t even have to slow down yet he’s claiming he’s lucky he’s got good brakes 😂😂😂😂 Personally I think in this very situation as the car driver I would’ve slowed and showed my intention whilst judging the cyclists position, but then proceeded unless he made it clear he wasn’t going to give any room. To be honest that would be more out of politeness than anything else if I felt the pair of us could safely fit side by side. The driver could’ve assuaged the cyclist’s feelings somewhat if he’d shown a little regard for him.. and his actions following this show that he’s definitely a bit of a bell end, but come on.. the cyclist is clearly a soft-cock and no doubt seems to find himself in situations like these far more than most.

[@ynotnilknarf39]

@@DamnedDamnedDamned1 And when you've had some wanker drive at you for the third, fourth, fifth time on one journey then it all gets more than a bit tiresome and actually because of the real threat of harm it starts to stack up mentally. Motorists and casual cyclists never grasp this. Maybe if we got them when on the pavement/footway and started to sweing an axe in their direction several times over or a sledhammer and force them to have to get out the way to avoid been hurt they'd understand.

[@WestcliffGoPro]

@@ynotnilknarf39 💯%

[@Gobtik]

That and the fact all the debris from accidents ends up in the gutter when drivers think we should be cycling

[@ganrimmonim]

I'm astonished that the car turned around specifically to have a go. Wow.

[@marklittler784]

It was probably after the cyclist used hand signals not yet incorporated in the highway code 😂😃😂😃😂😃😂😃😃😂😃😂

[@angrycyclist9387]

No time to wait for the cyclist but all the time in the world to try and start a conflict.

[@marklittler784]

@@angrycyclist9387 I think the cyclist was using unofficially recognised hand signals not appropriate for children somehow 😁😂😃😂😁😃😁😂😃😁😂😃

[@hybridangel3403]

Emotions run very hivh when your behind a wheel.

[@marklittler784]

@@hybridangel3403 Especially if someone's making unofficial hand signals when you've kids in the car 😂😃😂😃😂😃😂😃😂😃😂😃

[@amritbhupal8514]

When I first bought my ebike (it’s quite hilly where I live) and started commuting regularly I was shocked at the amount of abuse cyclists get for simply choosing to cycle along the side of the road. When driving regularly I would record 1-2 incidents a month, when cycling it would be up to 1-2 incidents a day. And would encompass everything from close passes, driver’s aggressively blaring their horn at you (which as you can imagine is very scary and startling when on a bike), to driver’s rolling their window down specifically to throw expletive’s your way. Especially worrying as you both arrive at the same red light. And the worst part is nothing’s being done about it!

[@PedroConejo1939]

I whole-heartedly agree. Over the (50+) years of cycling, and I cycle for less than 5% of my journeys, I've been deliberately rammed, had bottles thrown at me, been yelled at, been run into the kerb, driven at, constantly getting close passes and blasts of the horn. I try to cycle within the law and with the same car I use while driving yet I very, very rarely have any real aggro while I'm driving.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@PedroConejo1939 Yes, how DARE you use the roads on a bike! I love tossing out the fact that the reason PAVED, macadamized roads are so common is because of the uptick in cycling in edwardian times! Many assume that the coming of the motor car caused it. Not so, it was bicycles

[@bazzacuda_]

I often point out the "road tax" argument by turning it on its head. If drivers were to pay for roads spending completely through a road tax and fuel duty, rather than having it subsidised from general taxation, they would be paying over £1800 per year per driver (not car) extra.

[@pauljohnson2530]

The attitude towards cyclists I find absolutely shocking, especially from my age range, which is young drivers. The concepts of sharing the road and journey planning don't appear to have a widespread reach on my generation, many vent that they are constantly 'held up' or made late by cyclists, which I find a totally laughable concept, and the age old 'road tax' argument, but my far away favourite is the blatant irony when the complaints come from people who I used to cycle to school with.

[@mugger1]

Hey your lucky, i get people coming out of their houses to hurl abuse at me for riding past their house for 10 seconds.

[@tomhutchins7495]

The thing that made the most difference to my driving around cyclists was the meme a few years back showing passing distances annotated from "doesn't respect cyclists" through "respects cyclists" and "knows cyclists" to "is a cyclist". The possibility of being seen as a friend was the most powerful incentive.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

YES, this. I have had more than a few cyclists thank me as the one did Ashley (or his student, not sure which) in this video. I will definitely be allowing cyclists even more room (laying down) as a result of this video.

[@wag-on]

For the cyclist the 'primary position' is the centre of the lane. It's the safest position considering he had just past a junction on the left. It's the best position for visibility on urban roads.

[@bravesirmick8463]

Exactly. Riding in the gutter approaching the intersection will get you killed.

[@MPal24]

Honestly, there's nothing more pathetic than driving back to have a go at someone for some small incident/perceived slight. Yeah, the cyclist was too pissed off for a fairly minor situation, but the driver should just ignore it.

[@KahnuevsKrake]

I think most drivers or cyclists are guilty of getting annoyed at trivial things like that. Swearing and hand signals are one thing, but turning round to reprimand is something else. I would personally only turn around to warn someone of a danger or if they were injured.

[@tomhutchins7495]

At the start of that clip I thought it was going to be one of those where it was a bit rude for the cars to shove through, but nothing out of the ordinary as some drivers behave like that to other cars too. I was quite shocked to see them come back and get so aggressive.

[@PedroConejo1939]

That he turned round for a bit of a barney tells you he deliberately ignored the oncoming cyclist in the first place. Nothing says 'guilt' like an overreaction.

[@retrogeezer]

Exactly what happens all the time on the roads, no time to wait as they should have done but all the time in the world to argue the toss afterwards.

[@ynotnilknarf39]

it might seem trivial to you, but it isn't. it's a multiple occurence of bullying and threat of harm on a daily basis that people on bikes suffer at the hands of motorists. when it's the third, fourth, fifth time on one journey that happens then this is how things become. it's not trivial because if the cyclist doesn't get out the way yet again, then the drivers will generally just drive right into you and cause you harm. It's an assault in law, it makes you feel threatened, and when this happens multiple times it stacks until you either lose your rag or for some, give up cycling altogether because they cannot cope with being driven at every single time they go out.

[@MrDrewbies]

Ash, I'm a 'cyclist' - I cycle to work some days and often for leisure. I also drive a lot. I can say for certain that there needs to be some kind of public campaign to remind drivers - or teach them for the first time - that cyclists are allowed on most roads and they should be given adequate space. I feel like a lot of drivers have no idea how much space to give. This is made worse by crappy infrastructure (painted bike lanes) that give drivers the impression that you don't need to give any space because there is a magical white line on the ground. There is also an issue of impatience - not just for the car stuck immediately behind a cyclist, but the ones behind who make the car at the front feel pressured to overtake when it's not safe. We need to make it cool to be nice to cyclists. And when I say 'be nice', what I really mean is allow them to safely cycle without fearing for their lives.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

VERY good call on the painted bike lanes. Many drivers think of it the same way as another 'general purpose lane'... overtake in the one to the right of it as close as you like. Wonder if they'd do the same to an overhanging oversize load? (sadly the answer's probably yes, then complain when their car got written off)

[@Chigleybus]

I actually prefer the painted bike lanes, if I was forced to choose. They are safer in my opinion. In Liverpool at least, the purpose-built segregated bike lanes are too narrow for opposing traffic even if that traffic is only bikes, the kerbs are too high and present a genuine danger if you fall, they are abused by e-bike users and e-scooter users, and they are rarely if ever swept of debris. Pedestrians also tend to walk in them and cross them without much consideration. I ride on the road unless it's absolutely impossible to do so. It's actually less hazardous in my experience.

[@EssexBadDriving]

It's something which constantly boggles my mind... how people can be in such a rush to push past instead of giving way, only to suddenly have all the time in the world to turn around and engage in an argument. It's like the idiots who rush in front and then proceed to brake check to a stop.

[@Harrod200]

It's not about getting there faster, it's about putting those you consider below you in their place. Purely egotistical, inconsiderate behaviour.

[@kassimbabika]

The phrase "grow up" springs to mind

[@highdownmartin]

I’ve got an engine and a clutch. Stopping and pulling away again is a lot easier for me than a cyclist losing all their hard won momentum

[@PedroConejo1939]

A point that is very often forgotten.

[@stevekenilworth]

you are out for exercise, stopping and getting going is a part of it

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@stevekenilworth Are you suggesting that the only reason a person cycles must be for exercise and therefore inconveniencing them is actually doing them good?

[@highdownmartin]

@@stevekenilworth that’s a pretty stupid comment, Steven I like jumping onto the backs of joggers, seeing as they’re out for exercise I’m helping with extra resistance. They can give me a backie to the shops

[@paulgoff5068]

​@@stevekenilworthStrange! I'm sure I was going to & from work.

[@VideoNarstee]

"Proposed changes to Highway Code" - how many people re-visit the HC booklet after they have passed their test though?

[@mcdon2401]

I buy a new one every few years when it gets updated...something that frustrated the life out of my ex. Her argument against the waste of money (as she saw it) was that she had passed her test (first time, as she constantly reminded me) so what did she need to learn. Many arguments and multiple accidents would suggest she maybe wasn't as good as she thought she was.

[@apkk5594]

Given the importance of this change, it's not just making space, it also alters priorities, I'm expecting an awareness campaign as well.

[@speeddemon217a]

Make sure not to buy anymore highway codes though since it is all online now and you can easily download the information for free for offline use. No point wasting paper and money when you can read it on your phone, tablet, or other device anyway

[@cupofcustard]

@@mcdon2401 I hope you told her that statistically people who pass second/third etc... time are more likely to be better drivers!

[@ibs5080]

That's terrible and I totally sympathize with you. Your former partner should have been proud of you and held you in high regard that you are conscientious and diligent enough to care about your standard of driving that you make the effort to keep yourself up to date with the rules. I'm sure also during your time together, she was a passenger with you driving. Does she not care for her own safety? Waste of money?? It doesn't cost that much and I can think of many more things to spend money on that are far more trivial. And yes you can also download it but I know many folks, including myself, prefer hard copy. Anyhow, I for one totally applaud you for making the effort to keep you driving knowledge current. I do same.

[@maskofsan1ty]

Over reaction from cyclist but it gets incredibly exhausting on the bike when you have to drive the cars around you because they don't know how too.

[@MrSapps]

more so with constant start/stopping on a Friday after a full week of commuting ;)

[@gixxerman69]

I am a driver and a cyclist and have been for over 30 years. From my experience, many drivers just see a cyclist as something that impedes their progress and will try to get passed as soon as possible regardless of the cyclist's safety or road layout. The "must get in front" (MGIF) syndrome. I have had drivers trying to pass me through pinch-points, around blind corners, over the brow of hills, and even within a 10's of metres of a red traffic light. Then when their overtake must be aborted or they cause other road users to slow down or yield they imply that it is somehow the cyclist’s fault that they chose a stupid place to overtake. Many do not leave anywhere near adequate space when passing cyclists. They should be aware that cyclists can without warning often change their road position slightly to avoid potholes etc and they can be blown off course by crosswinds. I like your point about imagining the cyclist being laid on the floor. That was a very good rule of thumb. Cyclists can fall off their cycles without warning on occasions from poor road surfaces and icy road conditions. Motor vehicles should take this into account when passing a cyclist. Some see cyclists as the lowest road life-form and have the opinion that they do not belong on the road and have less rights to be on the road. Often, this is because the driver has some form of self-entitlement of believing that they pay for the roads via their "road tax", and see cyclists are not contributing to the roads, despite roads being funded by local / general taxation meaning that everyone contributes to the road network. When out cycling, I try to be considerate of other road users, and on narrow roads I will pull off where it is safe for me to do so to allow motor vehicles to pass. All I ask is for motor vehicle drivers to extend me the same courtesy when passing me.

[@camcab147]

I always find the road tax argument to be an interesting assumption on the behalf of drivers. What if the cyclist is also a car driver? They ARE paying road tax and choosing to cycle for that particular journey. Like you've I've been both a cyclist and I am a car driver. I totally agree with your points.

[@tonygarlingewarren7456]

I got bored of reading after the third sentence. Wow what a rant..

[@gixxerman69]

@@tonygarlingewarren7456Not a rant at all. Ashley asked for opinions based on personal experiences. I gave just that. Instead of idly dismissing it, why don't you read it and make valid responses?

[@CED99]

@@tonygarlingewarren7456 @gixxerman69 younglings nowadays TL:DR

[@gixxerman69]

@@CED99 Maybe TL:CR?

[@harryobrien150100]

In Australia the education around the room cyclists need pretty much just consists of "cyclists need 1.5/2m... fines apply" - there's a lack of understanding why they need so much room and of potential situations that both cyclists and drivers have to adjust their actions.

[@Woppettier]

I feel like they make such a rule a little bit to destract from other issues like safe infrastructure, it's very rigid

[@harryobrien150100]

@@Woppettier having to take longer, often hillier routes or driving even short, cyclable journeys to avoid unsafe roads and drivers is such a nightmare.

[@veritasaequitas9875]

My priority when cycling is my safety. I am well aware that is usually in my hands and nobody else's.

[@apkk5594]

I understand your point but disagree in some areas. One of the most frequent issues I have is close passes. It's impossible to know when a car passes you if they are going to pass with space or not until they are along side you. Ultimately, my safety is in the hands of other road users as well.

[@veritasaequitas9875]

I have been knocked down twice from behind and once from the side by idiot drivers so I am well aware of the risks. It's all very well having the right of way but when it's me against a 2 tonne car I tend to suck it up and not be combative.

[@mpmansell]

@@veritasaequitas9875 I believe he was disagreeing about the statement that safety is in your hands alone, which, sadly, it is not :(

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@apkk5594 Indeed, I tend to err toward giving too much room to cyclists, and if it IS close (narrow road) and I must overtake, I leave as much room as possible and overtake SLOWLY... zooming past is scary, and dangerous.

[@afreeman1980]

The car drivers response, ie total aggression, to the cyclist in the first clip to me shows the problem. The car driver was wrong in the first place and to have a cyclist attempt to point his error out was unacceptable to him. If it had been another car, a policeman on a bicycle, a tractor etc instead of an ordinary cyclist the car driver would have behaved entirely differently. The fact that the cyclist could have gone towards the kerb should not have been raised, there is no excuse for that driver, he is a bad driver. Your second clip, absolutely excellent, that is how it should be done.

[@lb57508]

I had this same situation, but riding two abreast with a friend of mine. A driver sped up at me and slammed on his brakes, proceeded to scream and swear at the top of his lungs out of his window at me to get out his way 'or else'.... Why is it people think this kind of behaviour is acceptable? Do I not deserve even the most basic amount of respect as a human being because I am using two wheels instead of four?

[@PedroConejo1939]

For what it's worth, a driver who recently parked in our private works car park and ended up parked in, (we always park like that because space is so limited) told the owner of the car that needed to be moved, 'I'm within my rights to ram your car out of the way' and was very aggressive about it. Some people are just tightly-wound tools and will always pick on a target they see as vulnerable. I wished he'd said it to me and not one of the female staff members.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@PedroConejo1939 Interesting, where did he get the idea that criminal damage is his 'right'? And Liam... it's perfectly legal for cyclists to ride two abreast, so ... what a tool.

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@TheChipmunk2008 It starts with believing that threatening behaviour is acceptable and moves on from there. An increasingly common phenomenon.

[@thearmouredpenguin7148]

I certainly do not condone the actions of the car driver, and that sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable, However cyclists also need to review their own be behavior. Did you need to be riding two abreast? If you are, do drivers have space to pass you safely, especially if there is on coming traffic? Is wanting to chat with a friend a good reason for riding two abreast? Just because you "have the right to" does not mean that you should inconvenience or be discourteous to other road users.

[@PedroConejo1939]

@@thearmouredpenguin7148 If there's oncoming traffic, there's almost certainly not sufficient space to safely pass a cyclist riding on their own. Only a small minority of cyclists actively seek confrontation, just as only a small minority of car drivers do.

[@nickmurray3361]

At the end of the day, if a car hits a cyclist the cyclist is coming off worse, and if a cyclist crashes into a car they’re still coming off worse. The roads need respect and understanding from all users. There are bad drivers, and there are bad cyclists out there, but as a bad driver you have a lot more potential to cause harm than a bad cyclist.

[@busog97641]

Well Said!!!

[@ynotnilknarf39]

human beings need to respect other human beings health, welfare and basic human rights. 'understanding from all users', well that's fine and dandy if there is an equitable amount of harm been presented just by being on the road in the first instance. Statistically people on bikes cause less harm than pedestrians and massively less than motorists. The 'respect', or rather basic adherence to the law and respect for human life should be mostly piled onto motorists, it is they that cause the majority of harm by multiple factors.

[@dgphi]

If a driver hits a cyclist, then it's going to be bad for the cyclist of course-but it's going to be bad for the driver too. It could ruin their life. At the very least it will be complicated and unpleasant. So even from a purely selfish point of view, it is incredibly dumb for a driver to risk the safety of a cyclist.

[@ivanboyes9773]

To answer the question about whether drivers are aware of the room cyclists need and why they might sometimes "take" the lane, no they are not.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Indeed. I wasn't even as a cyclist for MANY years (I just rode a bike on the road from an early age, no cycling proficiency test etc). Wish i had done one.

[@geoffclements269]

He's right about having children in the car; one was driving.

[@WestcliffGoPro]

😂😂

[@bigted1347]

If a car is driving towards me when I'm cycling I expect to be passed within a safe distance ( ie at least an arms length) and at an acceptable speed. There are far to many motorists who refuse to acknowledge the rights of a cyclists to be on the road. I believe this video clearly shows this when the motorist shout that he expects the cyclist to stay to the left of the lane. I would bet that the motorist would expect this of all cyclists all of the time, irrespective of the scenario

[@markhamilton7289]

audi seemed to be in a hell of a hurry. funnily he suddenly found time to go and remonstrate with the cyclist. cyclist had right of way and was cycling up the hill so i would have said courtesy alone would have made me stop and let him go through. you have to give cyclists as much room as a car.

[@WestcliffGoPro]

Yep....couldn’t agree more 👍🏻

[@Martin4963]

"Baby on Board" I always take it that refers to the driver.

[@cyclecam6328]

If I were the cyclist there I also wouldn't have been happy sharing the space. You're right that there's no hazards on the left but the speed of the cars is too high for the space available. Approaching, you need to assess the hazards that the drivers can see. First, have they seen me? Second, those cars on their side of the road in a residential area, is there any risk that the driver will need to react to? Those doors may open or the van may conceal pedestrians. In that event plan b for the driver is gonna be to move out. In short I agree with the cyclist taking primary position on the approach and assessing. If the drivers had slowed I'd have been happy to give a nod and share that space. Given that they just drove on without any sign that they had assessed the situation a sarcastic thanks would have sufficed. When I meet triggered drivers I've worked on my response. I reckon, offer them a chat pulled over but if they decline leave be. They and the internet can reflect in due course. Put on the camera, act like is not there.

[@genrege]

Agree, drivers go past cyclists too fast. Treat them like you would passing a horse.

[@WestcliffGoPro]

@@genrege exactly 👍🏻

[@Richard_Barnes]

I’ve deleted so many comments here.....so I’ll just say it your way Ash’. “....and all this because you couldn’t share the road.....” That really says it all.

[@DT-hg7te]

Just a clarification, there were no hand gestures made, or in fact left my handlebars. These would have been visible in my video if so. I simply looked round. I know you only have my word for it, but this is honestly the case, the second look round is actually a life-saver check before moving off, which I imagine any sensible rider would do. I was a little grumbly as I'd been close passed already that day, but should not have let it irk me. Additionally, I did pull over and let the cars through instead of ploughing on through. Not proud of my anger when he came after me, but you must appreciate that fight-or-flight kicks in when someone is literally driving a car at you in anger. My stop at the end was to give myself time to calm down. Otherwise, a fair video, great point on 'if the cyclist were to lay down'. No lost subscriber here. Regarding what he said at the end, it was "I'm going to smash your face in", and he was opening his door.

[@DT-hg7te]

Also, I hope Ashley doesn't think I am being argumentative with my comment here, just wanted to correct a few things as of course, I know the situation better than the video may show. This is a learning point for all of us, including myself. I believe my mistake here was lingering too long after the initial incident, which may have made things worse. However, nothing justifies the driver's reaction.

[@ashley_neal]

Thanks for getting in touch in the comment section and updating everyone. I'm glad you haven't taken offence and realised this upload is good learning for most. Without the bravery of my contributors to share these clips they don't get to have a positive effect that is required. Cyclists have a rough time of it on the road, and with all the import from many cyclists today I think it's about time I did a little deeper and try and find out where this prejudice comes from towards cyclists. Huge respect, Ashley.

[@derekp2674]

As Ashley said, huge respect for sharing your video. Let's hope that its use here helps improve road safety for cyclists and the road manners of some other vehicle drivers.

[@martinhowes1496]

​@@ashley_neal Thank you for having an open mind on this. I would suggest the way that news & information regarding cyclists is reported plays a significant role in how this tribal thing has come about. The language used by news publications is absorbed by people and it influences their decision making. The long running joke of every news article about a cyclist getting hit by a car often having dozens of comments of 'Cyclists don't pay road tax and don't have insurance' is both sad and frustrating in both its idiocy and frankly untruthfulness. But its been repeated often enough, by important enough people, that its sunken into the nations brains. The repeated dehumanisation of cyclists by national media has consequences, and those consequences are then often left in a heap on the side of a road after a car driver simply didn't care enough about another person.

[@RichO1701e]

@@ashley_neal, regarding prejudices against cyclists, IMHO of course, I'd suggest it comes from the way that car drivers think they pay "road tax", and pay to learn and pass a test, which gives them more "rights" or entitlement to be on the roads. There was a female driver who knocked over a cyclist then bragged about it on Twitter a few years ago with that mentality of, "they don't pay road tax". Nobody pays "road tax", you're paying for your *vehicle* to be taxed. *EDIT* Found the article on the BBC from 2013 www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-25000788#:~:text=A%20woman%20who%20posted%20a,charges%20related%20to%20the%20incident.&text=She%20then%20tweeted%3A%20%22Definitely%20knocked,t%20even%20pay%20road%20tax!

[@tmitchell3131]

Admittedly I used to get worked up over cyclists. At the end of the day their humans first and should be treated as such. I do agree with you though, quite often it's both parties that get worked up.

[@dalemr2]

They're

[@tmitchell3131]

@@dalemr2 yes quite right!

[@TheRip72]

Some cyclists are bad & give the rest of us a bad name. I was following another along Edgware road early one Sunday morning. I was faster than them; they ignored every red light & I kept catching them up. At one point, they went through a double set of reds & nearly got sideswiped by a car entering the road from a green. I was shaking my head at the cyclist's stupidity.

[@exsandgrounder]

@@TheRip72 As another cyclist, I'll say that we are only responsible for our own actions. We're not responsible for the actions of other cyclists, not guilty of their misdemeanours and cannot fix their behaviours. As far as I'm concerned, the only cyclist the chap in your example gives a bad name to is himself.

[@ynotnilknarf39]

@@TheRip72 No, other people doing stuff wrong NEVER gives over people a 'bad name' just because they are in the same social caste. This is a complete and utter nonsense that gets propagated only for people riding bikes. You never see it for motorists or pedestrians or even equestrians.

[@kwazyb]

He's got children in the car and that's what he's teaching them. :-)

[@philipallen4230]

Hi Ashley, with regards to your point at the beginning regarding space for the cyclist to pass. I personally feel that although there was enough space, because the approaching cars, especially the white one which was further over, were approaching quite fast, I don't think I would have felt comfortable continuing. The question that I would ask is if the cars were parked on the cyclist's side of the road, would the drivers have been annoyed at the cyclist squeezing through?

[@stevekenilworth]

that question, i see that daily on my cctv out side my house cyclists pushing through with less than 10cm each side of handle bars, even causing some drivers to kerb there wheels and may time Mount the pavement to avoid cyclist. i cannot wait for something to happen as i give vid to whos in the right, two high frame rate dash cams and two cctv cameras so have every angle covered. ive even seen them attempt to squeeze past a bus, the bus had to slam on brakes and cyclist swerved at last min to mount curb due to would of never fitted. the cctv can be quite entertaining at times

[@tjfSIM]

"Handbags" had me chuckling! Perfect summing up I think :)

[@RicardoPetrazzi]

Hi Ash, as both a regular road using cyclist and car driver I am very aware of the space required. Just yesterday evening I had a car give me less than 1m of space (buzzed me, essentially) which is very un-nerving and could cause loss of balance potentially. More often than not, in situations involving a queue of vehicles at a junction, I will not skip to cycle box at the front but wait in the queue behind the last vehicle that passed me, upon reaching the stationary traffic that is queing. It can be far safer and also less 'triggering' to the drivers which have just overtaken me prior to reaching the red light at the junction. Doing so is not hindering my progress or that of the traffic flow. Skipping to the front of the junction and going in to the Cycle Box, simply then often serves to hinder the progress of the vehicles behind (unless you are really fir and can move of very rapidly and maintain that speed), unless the traffic is going to be moving that much slower anyway. Its about a bit of give an take and context dependant really.

[@mattc9005]

I like your optimism that updating the highway code will have any effect- something like 1 in 3 drivers don't ever look at it after passing their test. Unfortunately these people are also probably more likely to perform close passes/ drive dangerously around cyclists in general (once several years ago I got told to read to read the highway code by a driver after I shouted "no, stay right" because he was moving from the right lane into the left about 20-30m before a red light, I started braking but he was about to hit me somewhere around the A pillar/ passenger door). In this situation I'd probably have soft pedaled and held back a bit so I didn't have to stop- it appears to be a quiet road and not really worth pushing it. The idea of is there enough room to fall over is one that I try to use whilst driving, but is also why I wouldn't have cycled into the gap unless speeds were a bit lower and traffic levels higher - drains are sometimes put in so the slats run along the road which are a front wheel trap if you make a small misjudgment close to the kerb, in this situation you can see into all the parked cars but in others a parked car door could open, causing the oncoming traffic to instinctively swerve. For a similar reason I normally don't go up the inside of traffic at junctions (especially traffic lights) even if there is a cycle lane, if the lights turn whilst you are filtering it can be awkward, especially as a lot of cycle lanes will put you on the left hand side of left turning traffic. I will filter if I won't get through on the next cycle (assuming I know the sequence) AND can see a safe place to wait after filtering.

[@defragsbin]

The highway code point is spot-on. It's very much a de facto / de jure situation, and if a pedestrian follows the highway code as written, they are likely to get knocked down. As a pedestrian, I don't think I've had a single car stop and give way to let me cross at a junction. Many cars (usually taxi drivers) will literally accelerate into a corner (without indicating, of course) when they see you crossing. I guess me making them take their foot off the accelerator and wait a few seconds is a provocative act, and I must be punished accordingly. My one thought was, after watching some of Ashley's videos, that at least the new intake of drivers would understand the updated highway code. Nope. Had several learners in instructor cars just plough through junctions without giving way. Sometimes the driving instructor is alone in the car and there's no change in behaviour.

[@ClaireYunFarronXIII]

Car drivers treat cyclists like they are second-hand pedestrians rather than dedicated road users just because they don't pilot big pieces of metal. Share the road. It's not yours, it's OURS.

[@angrycyclist9387]

If you wouldn't proceed with a car coming the other way, you don't when a cyclist is coming the other way. The audi driver is typical of most drivers, no time to wait to overtake safely but all the time in the world to try and start a fight.

[@jez5182]

I drive far more than I walk or cycle - but as a cyclist and pedestrian I've been on the receiving end of dangerous aggression from bad drivers on more than one occaision. Some drivers don't think twice before using their 1.5 tonne car as a weapon to intimidate cyclists and pedestrians - but if someone ran at them waving with a 7lb hammer they'd soon call the police.

[@khalidacosta7133]

I never did understand this stance from the police, if someone used their vehicle in an intimidating way, the police just see it as "well he didn't hit you, so there's no crime". Whereas if it was a hammer or other tool brandished by the tool, it's instantly a crime.... even when the person wasn't even brandishing it, just having it in their car legitimately!

[@ppheanix]

Good point, Ashley, about obstructions on the driver's side of the road. Such does not entitle a driver to cross to the other side when either a vehicle OR a cyclist is approaching, UNLESS they can do so without causing an obstruction to the oncoming vehicle or cyclist, as you point out.

[@scottlaaa]

If i was that cyclist I would be embarrassed to upload that footage to the internet! He 100% is the type of driver to blast into a dangerous situation and screams “got you on camera mate” hitting the horn instead of the brakes!

[@scottlaaa]

@@anoncyclist2131 funny enough i was waiting to pull out of tesco car park yesterday i had a badly parked van to my left blocking me from leaving, a bmw going towards my right stopped because of oncoming traffic. he shouts at me are you going or what? I pointed out I couldn’t leave and pedestrians were crossing the road and that I wasn’t causing any issues because I wasn’t on the road, i told him needed to get more patience he got out of his car and was going nuts at me? I don’t think that it helped that I just laughed and ignored him as i left all I could hear was multiple car horn’s going off and a lot of swearing from that bmw driver. If he had just waited a few seconds for the oncoming vehicle to clear the section of road then nothing would have happened!

[@dexradio]

Many motorists feel they have an. "entitlement" to the road. You often hear that cyclists should need insurance and "road tax" (no such thing). It's not just cyclists that provoke such hate though, also caravans, horse riders, slow-moving farm vehicles. I am a cyclist, motorcyclist and car driver. Driving the larger heavier vehicle I tend to make allowances for more vulnerable road users. As a car driver, you have to have more patience and concern to more vulnerable road users generally speaking. Unfortunately many don't feeling so strongly entitled to road space that they will plough on through, or turn around for a confrontation. The availability of cameras on bikes and cars make it even worse, some people are just looking for an excuse to put a confrontation on KZbin. I'm convinced they drive/ride around looking for a scrap? Maybe it's just me! This particular clip is much ado about absolutely nothing at all, no reason for the cyclist to provoke the car driver, and no need for the car driver to swing around to have a word.

[@1daddyDA]

Nice one my friend. Well timed for me as I am just starting to get out and about on my new E Bike. I have to say having been a motorcyclist for many many years before I got my car Test and that helps. Talk about ‘life saver check’ before moving. You bet. I would like to add to other drivers of any kind that this whole issue of space for cyclists is crucial. I liked your example of thinking of the rider fell off their bike where would they b laying on the road. Now I’m getting back into cycling slowly and honestly even on an e-bike there are moments when I feel like I should have an L Plate. I’m in my sixties and haven’t ridden a push bike in decades. When I first started I was even a bit wobbly. (I thought back to all those learners I taught and teaching them about ‘wobble room’, I liked using that phrase it makes you in the protected metal box think.) In fact get out of your car and get on a bike and you actually feel very vulnerable. I’m covered in reflective clothing, I’ve got the best lights everywhere but we all make mistakes and what of one day somebody does not see me even then? As for both cyclist and car driver they were both to blame. If I was in the car, with obstructions on my side, I would have held back for the bike. If I was on the bike I would not have been rattling the drain covers even if I moved over a little (My Wife rides a trike and frankly it kind of gets you noticed even by Car Drivers) Equally what would it have cost the cyclist to hold back for the car? As for the Driver swearing at the cyclist and turning round to confront him what message does that give to kids who will one day grow up to drive themselves? It shows them aggression and a bit of a fight over road space is quite okay on the roads. It’s also possible the cyclist was a bit frightened by what happened and that got his fight or flight mechanism going and he decided he wanted to fight. The message is ‘share the roads” and let’s all just be safe.

[@Alfiewow]

I like that you edited the clown face in the thumbnail so it actually looks like it's in the car. That's attention to detail.

[@markplenty2631]

I treat every cyclist as I would any other vehicle on the road and that’s with respect.

[@RideWithRoy]

Superb take on sharing the road. Cyclists and vehicle drivers are EQUAL on the road and all is required is a little courtesy and understanding from both parties. As in all of life, there are some, on both sides, who won’t listen, but it’s reassuring to see a driving instructor putting out this message. Personally, I advocate sharing the road and encourage courtesy. Not only is it safer, but it feels good when the other party thanks you.

[@Sanutep]

thank you for subtitling their exchange... very difficult to make out in the initial viewing :)

[@alanwatson7560]

As a lifetime cyclist, motorist and pedestrian my particular bugbear is cycling on the foot way. This habit encourages a growing number of motorists to believe that the correct place for cyclists is the foot way. I have recently observed a family on bicycles in single file being told to "get on the pavement" (what about the poor pedestrian!). Also motorists should always be aware that drain covers and pot holes can be a serious hazard for cyclists (and wet white lines). So be prepared for sudden changes of direction.

[@robinallen7356]

I've experienced that too, that I belong 'on the path'. I was forced off the road last month by cars going through a narrow restriction at road works traffic lights. The driver said I should be on the path. First off, No. I should not be on the path. I use the path sometimes, because some sections of road are too dangerous. I belong on the road unless there are safety reasons or approved cycle lanes that allow me to leave the road. Second, the path the driver told me I should be on... well in ten metres time it turned into a two foot deep trench full of mud and rubble. That's why there were roadworks. But somehow the thinking was that I should leave the road and carry my bike across broken rubble and through inches of thick mud, to not disturb the passage of cars through the roadworks.

[@defragsbin]

It's unfortunate, but in places with crap cycling infrastructure, I understand why they do it. I live in a city with a lot of dangerous roads, so I can sympathise.

[@justwannaridemabike]

Great video! Sadly not Ashley re question @ 3:27. I often cycle with a couple of laminated extracts (that I’ve made up) from the Highway Code (rules 61,63 (Cycle lanes non mandatory) 67 (Cycle clear of door zone) 112 (Correct use of horn) 163 (Overtaking cyclist - with picture) 178 (ASL Lines at lights) 182 (Cutting in on cyclists), some diagrams of safe (& unsafe) overtaking diagrams and links to cycling weekly - will need to add the cyclist lying down with bike diagram. That way if drivers shout at me I can direct my attention (& theirs) to the handout as a redirection, deescalation technique and simply, calmly redirect them to what the road rules actually are. Often not worth getting into a heated discussion with a driver as a cyclist. A driver may be violent ,they may have a weapon and if nothing else they are behind a 1 tonne (+) crushing machine.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Nice idea that.

[@justwannaridemabike]

@@TheChipmunk2008 it’s not full proof, but redirection can be very helpful as a deescalation technique. Plus it gives you something as a clear reminder of the rules.... used it once to calmly explain why I’m entitled to use the whole lane on narrow road with parked cars either side. After asking if the driver knew rule 67 (about four times) they said no... alongside some other unsavoury words.... I read it to them & asked if they wanted to see it.... they where lost for words until they told me to ‘F-off’ and that I reminded them of their small male appendage... I.e. ‘Ya Wee Pr*ck’! But because I was informed, it helped me stay calmer and I laughed out loud after they left because of how absurdly they reacted when presented with the truth.

[@captain1664]

Great analysis as usual.

[@AstonishingGlasgow]

What do you think about them adding rules and sections to the highway code? I worry that they add new rules and add new road layouts but how many people ever look at the highway code once they pass their test. Without a form or constant testing or perhaps mandatory driver awareness courses it will take years for the correct rules to be followed but usually by that point the bad habits have been accepted as the norm. I cycle and drive and by far the biggest cause of conflict on my bike is drivers not looking up the road. Go for an overtake or pull out to pass on the approach to a narrowing of the road.

[@derekdelboytrotter8881]

us motorcyclists get the same, our right of way but because there's a gap that we can fit down then cars just keep coming.

[@danielsumner1398]

Since picking up a cheap road bike for the first time over COVID, I have become much more aware of my own driving and awareness of space.

[@crazyt1483]

I hope more people are like you with space as due to some disabilities I struggle to ride in a straight line so need that space and before I gave it up completely I had a few times where I nearly went into the side of the car.

[@sparkeli4513]

"I've got children in my car" is a person's way to push all responsibility onto the other road user while justifying their own terrible driving. In this video I can see why this driver was so distressed because obviously the bike could have crashed into them and caused them all to die 🙄 or the cyclist gave a rude hand gesture, which in this case teaching your kids to be confrontational isn't a great life lesson. I'm sure a "the sign that man made was very rude and we shouldn't do it" would have been suffice.

[@darrenhaw8077]

if im passing a cyclist no matter what direction im going in if i cant give plenty of room i slow down if the audiot had just slowed down a bit there wouldnt have been all the drama

[@grahamnutt8958]

Hierarchy and Ego..... plus a lack of common sense..... all three of these traits lead to incidents that could, and should, be avoidable. I believe that your depiction of a cyclist laying in the road is a very worthwhile inclusion. I happen to agree, Ash, that there's a lack of knowledge with regard to just how much room a bike (powered or pedal) actually requires. Great analysis there 👍

[@andrewduffield2322]

Ashley, you should do more than just teach people to drive! There are some great general life lessons in your videos!

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Hear hear. These videos are entertaining as well as educational. Ashley's voice is soothing, perfect driving instructor, his students are getting more than a normal driving lesson (I know that's been said before but it bears repeating)

[@jimmyrottencauli]

For me as a cyclist one of the most important things is the amount of room I am given varies/increases with the speed difference...... If I'm riding in slow moving traffic I dont mind a car passing closely

[@PAULPICKLES]

As a cyclist and driver, I completely agree there are idiots in both means of transport. Unfortunately the bad are always the ones that come to mind whenever you think of a cyclist. Most of us understand the rules of the road and abide by the highway code. You never see the good in the world these days. Tempers are high all the time on the roads. Shame we don't have a few more cool, calm and considerable people like you Ashley.

[@owen_003]

There is a bit of an issue with Highway Code changes - how many people actually read the Highway Code (or changes) after they’ve got full licenses (if needed)?

[@TheChipmunk2008]

yes, a re-test once every few years (maybe on license renewal for photocard licenses) would be handy. With someone like Ashley to point out the needed improvements

[@genrege]

Needs some KZbin ads to spread the message.

[@chrisjones7109]

Well enough space for both pass thru but looking from the footage does the cyclist make a move little to far over to centre make the driver of the car that he is coming thru

[@cyclecam6328]

More speed needs more space. Did you finish your above comment?

[@apkk5594]

I disagree that there was enough space. Yes, the cyclist could have moved further to the left as Ashley suggested but it still would not have left the requisite 'cyclist on the floor' space also suggested by Ashley. Whilst I agree that both sides overreacted, this is an issue not properly appreciated by those that don't cycle. I'm frequently faced by motorists passing parked cars on their side of the road and making the same judgement on space that they would for a car - ie, will there be a collision or not. You cannot make the same judgement when dealing with cyclists and education is needed. Hopefully the updated changes to the highway code will be ratified and then will be widely advertised.

[@HenryW9]

I used to be like the guy at the start until I learnt how to drive...

[@OldSkoolLover1996]

Me too, similar... a drama queen over none events hehe. Now I just let it be

[@DT-hg7te]

The video is interesting, whilst otherwise fair, Ashley got it wrong about the hand signals, my hands never left my handlebars. This should have been a grumble and move on, forgotten about in 2 minutes time, but the driver decided to take it to the next level and have a go at me. I moved over, grumbled, moved on when the situation is over. That should have been it, camera wiped at the end of the ride. I drive too.

[@OldSkoolLover1996]

@@DT-hg7te I understand. The best and most important decision you can make is to put yourself in a good mood, it works well. Cheers

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@OldSkoolLover1996 yes, that, and especially when driving, but also when riding, remember that arriving late is better than not arriving. I had such an incident this morning. Woke up late, (alarm did go off, I just seemingly ignored it?). Of course being that waze said i was getting to work 2 minutes late, I got stressed, rushed everything, snapped at family members, and hit every red traffic light and person turning right on an A road I could.... I pulled over, called my colleague, told him i was going to be 10 mins late and would explain when I got there. Took the pressure off me, and as it turns out, I arrived bang on time without being stressed or aggressive.

[@amyk9813]

Easier said than done but road users must learn not to get so worked up about others mistakes. It can really impair your thinking

[@slothgoingfast]

I don't get too worked up by mistakes of others, its people that drive aggressively and dangerously on purpose. Mostly if they nearly give my car a ram. That being said, my trick to keep myself in control and not escalating a road battle is to think of everyone else on the road and how not backing down would either inconvenience or endanger them.

[@matthewwhittenham7528]

Amazes me how little respect cyclists and drivers have for each other. As a driver and a cyclist, I’m well aware of the risks to other cyclists when I’m driving, but also aware of those risks when I’m cycling myself. Cyclists are more vulnerable so need to be looked after by motorists, but they also need to look after themselves as well which some really don’t. As a cyclist, you need to anticipate and adapt your cycling to reduce the risks caused by bad drivers (just as you do when you’re driving), not escalate the situation unnecessarily to make it worse. You can’t control or change the actions of bad drivers, sadly.

[@Shyted]

Everyone has the right to be on the road, everyone has a responsibility to be considerate of others.

[@ynotnilknarf39]

Motorists have ZERO rights to be on the road, only equestrians, pedal cyclists and pedestrians, motorists are there by as a privelege.

[@1ninjatiger]

I don’t mind a smaller gap as long as the speed of the vehicle reflects that gap..ie cycling through a small gap when the cars are moving slowly and able to react and stop quickly is ok. A small gap when the oncoming car is going fast and creating a pull effect (plus its scary) is not acceptable. So the faster they go the more space I want 👍🏻 That is also reflected in how I drive around cyclists. There are other factors to consider..road surface and weather for example.

[@simonwillgress]

Most cyclists consider the position of safety and space in-terms of “if I was a car would you have done that” The speed of the oncoming cars was not excessive and at that speed the space was mor than adequate. If that had been on a 60mph road the perspective changes hence why some cyclists take the above view for everything rather than a practical view considering the situation as presented. The position of the white car doesn’t create a hazard so I wouldn’t have thought to even slow down on my bike.

[@4TheRecord]

0:56 This happens to me on my 125cc bike quite often. Drivers seem to think that I should be riding at 30mph over drain covers so they don't have to stop and give way. As for the video itself I don't see much of an issue for the cyclist here. Looking at the road condition it looks like the road at the kerb is smooth and free from potholes and drain covers so he could have easily continued without having to stop and sigh about it.

[@realdanielmaclean]

Another great video Ashley. I've a similar story to share. I was driving back down from the daily dog walk up the hills and the road is your typical country road, narrow in parts, winding, prone to last minute corrections in speed and positioning because visibility and road conditions can often be poor, so I drive slowly. I can see 5 cyclists coming up the hill and there isn't any passing places on either side, but I judge there is enough space to pass if I slow down, so I slow it down to around 15 mph. I pass the first four cyclists who have no issues, but the last cyclist starts waving angrily at me so violently that they start steering all over the road and almost hit me. Thankfully nothing happened, so I kept on driving. But it got me wondering how sensitive the cyclist was and so keen to express their anger that it almost caused an accident. Was it really worth getting angry about?

[@neilduran2335]

At 4:54, the guy walking towards the bridge with ever decreasing pavement width (his back facing you), did you consider he might step out and did you slow down or consider giving him some space?

[@NuSpirit_]

Honestly I think there should be education on both sides - just the other day I had a cyclist go from right lane (europe) all the way into left lane when I was overtaking him in said lane. Glad I have ABS in my car (no hand gesture, no head turn, just sudden sharp change in direction). So as usual it depends on people driving car/bicycles.

[@TheScottishBaker]

My frustration with cyclists as someone who lives in the countryside but works in London is at home I regularly come across groups of 20+ cyclists 2 or 3 abreast causing absolute chaos on country lanes which then causes drivers to act equally stupid and pull off frustrated, dangerous manoeuvres to get past them. Then in London it’s the Wild West regarding traffic lights and cyclists viewing them as optional. I couldn’t even tell you the amount of close calls I’ve had/seen in London due to the cyclists going through red lights. As usual the blame is somewhere in the middle and drivers definitely need better education. Unfortunately though due to the fact that anyone can ride a bicycle on our road these confrontations will continue to happen until better regulation/education happens with both sides

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Yes it's got to be give and take

[@k-rj740]

TheScottishBaker: *"I couldn’t even tell you the amount of close calls I’ve had/seen in London due to the cyclists going through red lights."* But still, drivers break the rules in equal amount if not more if you look at all aspect of this. For instance, it's really easy seeing cyclists run red lights as they filter past every car that is stuck in a queue of other cars, but it's not easy seeing all the drivers on their phones in that queue.

[@_Steven_S]

@@k-rj740 not quite a fair comparison. A cyclist passing a queue of cars, probably at speed, probably on the left of said queue; Ignoring a compulsory traffic management signal; Potentially endangering any pedestrians crossing/about to cross the road; Definitely endangering themselves. Verses someone in a stationary vehicle checking their messages - worse case, they miss the queue moving off and hold up traffic momentarily.

[@k-rj740]

@@_Steven_S No. If you look at the statistics, you see that queueing drivers on the phone are a lot more dangerous than cyclists running a red light. It is very rare that a cyclist seriously harms or cause someone's death due to someone cycling on a red light. (They do, of course, endanger themselves.) But if one compares that with using a mobile phone while in a queue, the risk factor is far greater toward others when it comes to mobile phone use. How? 1) Should a child or shorter person cross in front of them they wouldn't even see them, and would likely then move off, running them over. This is common behaviour from phone drivers. 2) They are entirely unaware of filtering cyclists and motorcyclists. These drivers are often slow to react when the queue starts moving, and then when someone behind them beeps they drop the phone and hastily move off without even looking. 3) If you imagine these people only use their phones when queuing at the traffic lights, that's terribly naive. These phone users are constantly using their phones, but it's just much easier to catch them when they're in the queue. 4) Phone distraction lasts for a good 10 minutes after you put the phone away. Even if you're only using the phone in each traffic queue at each junction (which is highly unlikely), then you're constantly topping up your mental distraction and are basically as disabled as a drunk driver. 5) Phone driving is worse than drink driving for distraction rates, and that's why it's part of the Fatal4 behaviours that police target heavily. 6) Mobile phone laws are about to get even more restrictive because of the govt, police, DfT all recognising the danger of phone use. New laws coming in in 2021. 7) People who knowingly break minor driving law will likely also break more serious laws. Strong policing of minor traffic offences has a strong effect on reducing collisions resulting in killed and seriously injured people.

[@UltimatumNo5]

No comment except great analysis - like you said, just egos.

[@marklittler784]

Does help drivers to react sooner and plan ahead for cyclists if they have hi viz on, on both sides of the road approaching from either direction.

[@retroonhisbikes]

It becomes a little frustrating when you’re almost killed every day buy a careless car driver. When i was hit by a hit and run driver on a quiet back road on a sunday afternoon. He told the police that cyclist have to give way to over taking vehicles. He only got 5 points £200 fine. Plus insurance paid out £1200 for bike etc. And £15000 for personnel injuries. Driving will become expensive for the next three years. Id like to point out its the over taking vehicles responsibility to ensure it is done safely.

[@gixxerman69]

No doubt that he thinks that he has priority because he pays the mythical "road tax".

[@retroonhisbikes]

@@gixxerman69 i know, had the same conversation with some one yesterday.

[@dwaynebailey333]

My kids had the advantage of being taught how to cycle in school and how to command the road. I didn't. They tried to tell me to move off the left and to be more central. I kinda listened to them. Then one day I went over a narrow bridge near our home and hugged the left. A car managed to squeeze past and I ended up in the gutter and pretty shook up. I now always ride in an appropriate command position. I like the lie down example. I also like the if this was a car, or if this was a horse, would you have done this. There is no way the Audi would have executed that move if this was a car, or a horse. So even if there was enough space for this to not be dangerous, it was still risky.

[@ScotlandwithFraser]

As always good video Ashley. I'm not a cyclist but have sympathy for how often they end up coming off worst when bad decisions are made by others. Probably why I'm not a cyclist! Regarding your question around 3m25s, I think this could be expanded a bit further. I think there's maybe not enough driver education about other road users in general. There's a lot of vehicles on the road that aren't cars, yet a significant number of people couldn't tell you how much space to leave a cyclist or speed limits for lorries/buses on different carriageways. Wonder if you'd be interested in doing a future video covering the 'limitations' other road users have compared to cars e.g. speed limits, turning space required at tight corners etc and how to adjust your (car) driving to help.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

I am disappointed that many satellite navigation tools don't have a 'van/lorry' option with respect to speed limits. I have recently gone from a car to a small van because of the amount of tools and materials I need to carry for work. Speed limits for me are now 10mph lower on national speed limit roads except motorways (with a few deviations). Nowhere is there an option to set this. It's a shame because i found the gentle beep warning me of my speed creeping up was helpful :(

[@anorak-adenoids]

0:45 "between cyclists and OTHER road users" -- that little word but essential to the moral of this story:) (I bet that was just a slip of tongue :P because you write it correctly in the video description:)

[@28YorkshireRose12]

That's exactly the formula I use to calculate the minimum space. Wherever possible, I prefer to leave around 50% more (bounce factor) because when people fall over, they rarely, if ever, drop and stay exactly where they fall. With a cyclist, there is also the forward momentum to consider, as well as the lateral momentum which initiated the fall, and then the elastic nature of mammalian tissue which imparts an 'action-reaction' effect. It may sound like over the top twaddle, but if you've ever seen high speed video footage of a falling body, you can appreciate where I'm coming from. - Science is very enlightening! Just a couple of days ago I was watching yet another video, this time a car and caravan trying to force it's way into an exit slip, way beyond the lane divider/splitter. The egos came to the fore, and driver of the goods vehicle (cammer's vehicle) was determined to shut down any chance of a gap to keep the caravanner out, and similar to this video, it became a cockfight, only that both drivers refused to back down. Instead, the car and caravan ended up wrapped around the front of the goods vehicle. Over inflated egos are no good on the road, and inevitably, when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object, the egos go into meltdown and the whole thing becomes a cockfight and almost without exception, it never ends well for either and always ends up delaying both, as happened here with our cyclist versus Mr Audi. If either one had simply decided to let the other go, none of this would have happened, both would have complete their journeys sooner, and in a better humour.

[@itsonlyme9938]

In the highway code it says if a on coming car is crossing over the other side of the road to pass the on coming traffic has right of way.

[@ollieb9875]

Altercations like this are why I just avoid as much as possible cycling on the road. I'm paranoid at best and hate to feel like I'm kind of in the way.. I do have a car as well and always give cyclists or runners time and space. Long story short it takes me ages to get anywhere on the bike because I go cross country. I did 25 miles the other day, my legs are knackered but I only met one vehicle who was a farmer taking some sheep in a horse box, I pulled over and let him go by because he was approaching from behind he smiled gave me a appreciative beep and generally it was a good day.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

Always nice to get appreciation. I take it as a bonus whether i'm a driver, cyclist or pedestrian. Many people take personal offence when they don't get thanked! lol

[@southwirralcyclist1986]

In general I don't see any reason why a cyclist should feel they're in the way. There are of course times when drivers wish to overtake cyclists as they are able to travel faster, but there are also many times on urban roads when a cyclist wishes to overtake vehicles because they can travel faster. I cycle commuted for 35 years on busy urban roads and most days, I would pass and be passed by the same cars multiple times over 6 miles as our average speeds were very similar. Bikes also occupy a lot less road space than a car. The only exception I would make are on some single track roads where it's impossible for a vehicle to pass a cyclist safely unless they pull into a passing place to allow the vehicle passed. Even on these roads though a cyclist can still end up being delayed by vehicles if there is any significant amount of oncoming traffic as a cyclist can easily pass an oncoming vehicle without using a passing place, whereas vehicles have to pull into them to pass. On most roads there are plenty of opportunities for drivers to overtake safely using the oncoming lane.

[@phillipsiviter2024]

Blame - if it could be called as such - on both sides here, no need for either side to get triggered as that is the surest way to road rage.

[@scottw3048]

bit ashamed to admit it but there were the odd moments not long after i passed where i got pretty impatient with cyclists - never to the extent of anything that would be extremely dangerous driving/rash overtaking at blind bends or ending up causing any serious harm, luckily enough, but just little things like passing them when im turning left shortly anyway... sometimes even getting stuck at a red light and they'd end up positioning themselves in front of me a few seconds later (one of them shook their head at me which left me a bit embarrassed). older ive been getting through the years (30's now, christ) i think (hope!) ive gotten better andmore considerate with cyclists in particular. i unironically think there's mainly an age element at play, and that the younger you are the more likely you are to be impatient bordering on potentially reckless/hazardous with cyclists. end of the day some advice my dad gave me to avoid being one of those people on the road in a massive rush to nowhere has helped. maybe needs to be more of an element to it on testing but not sure how that would take shape. maybe a SPECIFIC unit or set of questions in the theory test aimed at "what would you be prepared for the cyclist to do in this situation" "what is the main hazard for the cyclist here" or something just to get you putting yourself in the shoes of a cyclist out on the road, idk edit: tbf i havent finished your vid yet still really near the start so wonder if you've got a better answer than that, ha!

[@gfooo6112]

As a cyclist and driver, I think you nailed this one.

[@ryansellar9149]

Same story when you see dash cam clips of pedestrians crossing the road before the driver even turns on to it then you see all the swerving, horn and hand signals coming out. I think we have a combination of people being idiots and people not being taught well enough when they're learning about looking out for vulnerable road users You need a licence and all the training that entails to drive your car, they don't need one to walk across the road

[@mingo82]

i'm a driver who took up cycling during lockdown. When cycling, i treat the road as if i'm driving a car. Unfortunatly, can't say that about a majority of other cyclist. I do think there needs to be some sort of test or education involved before you can use the roads, especially a hazard perception test. Many times i've notice whilst cycling a hazard which i've anticipated and adjusted to avoid such as the incident in this video.

[@1nfusionz]

Great video as usual! One thing to note is that look how close the oncoming vehicles get to the parked cars. Maybe the drivers did attempt to move over as much as possible to allow the cyclist to carry on through? Maybe the cyclist saw there wasn't enough room and didn't expect the cars to move over as much, so once he saw the vehicles committing, he felt he had to stop? Who knows! People do need to sort their anger issues out though, why can't we all be friends!?

[@cmartin_ok]

Doesn't matter how much you educate some drivers about cyclists, they continue to believe that cyclists should not be on the road and will hurl abuse at them come-what-may. They also don't appreciate how bad the road surface can be and how as a cyclist you may not be able to cycle right alongside the kerbstones, and you need some space to ride safely

[@karikling6751]

Key bit of information: cameras don't always pick up small but sharp debris that can easily puncture a tire, and that debris usually collects on the side of the road. You're not going to easily see things like broken glass or nails on the camera.

[@neilthomas4783]

As a driver and cyclist that has been hit on the shoulder by a van wing mirror in a similar situation! where I continued through the gap the first 3 cars left me room the van was even further over and clipped me! The driver of the van did stop and apologize and we went on our own way but he pointed out he had been watching the cars IN front and the parked cars, and I had been partially hidden by the cars and his door/ roof column. these days if their is not 5 foot of gap I don't go! if you expect people coming from behind to give that much room why not expect the same when cars are heading towards you! after all the collision speed is even more.

[@stuartking]

As a motorcyclist, I can say that the issue of giving space in these scenarios is not limited to cyclists, but unlike most cyclists I see on KZbin, I get on with my day. In this situation the cyclist really is making a mountain out of a molehill. There was room, the cyclist doesn't have a god given right to keep the centre of the lane. Infact, most cyclists will wisely keep to the left, even on an empty road. That is where it is usually safer for them. Do cars try to 'push through' a lot? Absolutely. Should the cars have waited? Probably, yes, but having made the choice to go, the cyclist has the choice to create an issue or move on with their day. This situation is a stereotypical cyclist meeting a stereotypical Audi driver. Both think the other person is an idiot, and in this case I think they might both be right.

[@ppheanix]

I am also a member of a community bicycle repair and maintenance group and I have developed a 1-Day seminar come training event entitle, Road Safety for Cyclists, Drivers and Pedestrians, based upon the Road Rules and Common Sense so that everyone knows how to consider the risks of an encounter with a cyclist.

[@robinallen7356]

As a cyclist, in the past few weeks I have been forced off the road, I have been forced to turn left by cars overtaking me and then turning left before they have passed me, twice, been driven at head-on with not enough room forcing me into potholes, and been honked at by a triggered driver for not waiting patiently alongside while he restarted his stalled engine. The worst, was a left turner - with me in a marked cycle lane alongside queuing traffic (to traffic lights with a protected bike area at the lights), the lead car decided with me already alonside that it was going to start indicating left and turn directly into me. Without attention and perception to watch this driver I would have been driven into, and for a younger less experienced cyclist it certainly would have been a contact sport. The bit that got me though, was the police car behind the driver that turned towards me. Their response? One tried their best to ignore me. The other laughed, and they drove away. If I had been in a metal box, and needed to emergency stop to avoid someone turning sideways into my lane without proper indicating, would they have ignored the driver that caused it? But because I was on a bike, I was unimportant.

[@MrSapps]

sounds like you have some stuff to learn yourself tbh, if you are "forced" you are probably not reading the road very well as you can often see these things happening a mile away

[@TheChipmunk2008]

THAT makes me mad, the cops

[@grahvis]

@@MrSapps . It is easy to tell you are not a cyclist and have never had a vehicle start to overtake and at the same time turn left. Cyclists are not mind readers.

[@sparkycalledmarky]

One of the problems with narrow spaces is that drivers see cyclists (and motorcyclists) filtering through very narrow gaps in stationary traffic, and just assume it's then OK for them to force such narrow gaps when they want to push through ("a couple of inches is enough when you want to cycle through, so it should be enough when I want to drive my car through"). This doesn't consider the cyclist making an informed choice in low risk situations, vs them being put in a dangerous position by a driver who hasn't made any such consideration in a much riskier (for the cyclist) situation. TBF I don't really blame cyclists for not wanting to enter a gap like in the video as you never know just how far over the oncoming car will come.

[@ChrisCoxCycling]

Good analysis. In isolation, it's easy to say the cyclist overreacted. What's likely the case is it's a death by a thousand cuts kind of reaction. When you ride frequently and there's always that driver who accelerates to pass you just to get to the red light first, or turn into the McDonalds drive thru, or the driver who "doesn't see you" at the roundabout, or the driver who "just slowly" squeezes past you between parked cars...you spend almost your entire ride thinking how you can compromise your ideal road position just to put up with the drivers around you who, as you say, aren't well educated about the situation. None of these things on their own is that big a deal, but they all add up and eventually you just "get triggered". I suspect that's the case here. The Audiot was the last straw, resulted in a gesture, and the driver who was in such a hurry as to squeeze through suddenly has time to turn around and have a discussion... Sigh. You are 100% right, there's far too much conflict on the roads. And most of it is totally unnecessary.

[@IRVisionPrints]

Problem is a lot of cyclists will scream and shout when they feel wronged but then they’ll happily go straight through the next red light them encounter

[@TheChipmunk2008]

A lot, but not every one.

[@IRVisionPrints]

@@TheChipmunk2008 is that not what I said?.

[@TheChipmunk2008]

@@IRVisionPrints yes. I was emphasising the point :)