Ask Ian: Are Man-Portable Chain Guns Coming?

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0:00 Introduction and Patreon Question
1:21 Chain Gun Operation and History
3:32 Advantages and Use-Cases of Chain Guns
4:55 Comparison with Traditional Firearms
5:40 Extended Discussion on Chain Guns in Armored Vehicles
7:20 Miniaturized Chain Guns and Their Usage
7:50 Limitations of Chain Guns
9:10 Future of Man Portable Chain Guns
13:16 Conclusion and Patreon Information
From Nikolas on Patreon:
"Have there been any attempts to make miniaturized man-portable chain guns? Do you think there's a future for such a machine gun given modern advances in energy storage?"
Chain guns are a specific type of externally-powered machine gun. They have a single barrel, and used a loop of chain to control the movement of the breech and feed system of a machine gun so that it cycles under external power independent of energy taken from the firing cartridge. They are most commonly used in:
- 20mm-30mm cannons
- Armored vehicle turrets
- Helicopters
- Naval AA mounts
The benefit of a chain gun is its ability to cycle a dud cartridge right through the system without causing a stoppage. They are also unaffected by variations in powder charge, within reason. This makes them idea for aerial mounts. The ability to lock the action closed longer than typical machine gun designs allows them to leak minimal propellent gasses out the breech, an advantage for use in tanks and APCs.
For infantry-type use, these benefits are not particularly useful. They are offset by the increased weight required of a chain gun, both from the additional components to actually the bolt and also the electric motor and battery to power it. I can see development of this system for autonomous or drone-based applications, but not for human infantry.
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[@SimuLord]

"What's wrong with your gun?" "It's out of battery." "Well clear it, run the action, and get back in action." "No, I mean it's out of battery. Battery's dead."

[@Ampersand38]

"Get the bicycle!"

[@jvccr7533]

@@Ampersand38 I'm thinking hamsters. When they run out of steam, just chug a new one in there.

[@koekiejam18]

im thinking one of those handcranks that you get on portable flashlights

[@minhducnguyen9276]

Put a two strokes engine on it and rev it up like a chainsaw.

[@TheBroTurps]

put a little fan on top like a windmill

[@Tadicuslegion78]

*some years later* Ian: Hi Everyone, I am Heavy Weapons Guy and this is the French Portable Chaingun

[@Fish-ub3wn]

lol

[@joseestevezhernandez558]

@@Fish-ub3wn he needs some pounds on muscle, and a drastic change of accent but i can see it

[@fortnex9972]

Hanging from his robotic arm!!🤣

[@jho107]

Chambered in .32 french extra longue

[@JoshuaC923]

As someone who played TF2 this made me laugh out loud

[@KuruGDI]

I like how Ian takes this question that someone else would turn down as _stupid_ or _not worth answering_ and answers it in a very serious and informative way.

[@torismegistos7111]

those someone else's are fudds wasting ammo, Ian is a teacher at heart

[@kmech3rd]

It does speak well of Ian that he took the "Well, I know what you really meant to ask, and here's the answer" tack, rather than the "It's a MAGAZINE, not a CLIP, you fool" one.

[@clothar23]

@@kmech3rd And that's why he's built up a reputation. One so well earned he gets acess to both corporate and governmental arsenals.

[@BeingFireRetardant]

@@clothar23 Right, of all Guntubers, Ian has put in the most work, done his due diligence, and earned his reputation of respect and historical accuracy. He has been doing precision since the very beginning. Being famous came after all that, as a mere byproduct of the fruits of his labor. And his channel stands apart, in a very small circle, of content creators whose sole work serves as a repository of information for future generations. A veritable Library of Congress for firearms. The irony is that it's never not interesting...

[@Merlmabase]

I'm not a big gun nerd by any means. I clicked on the video because I was assured an excellent explanation of what a chain gun actually is. Thanks Ian!

[@jonathansmith6050]

Also "inconsistent" ammo in a chaingun isn't just because of under or overloaded rounds; but can be because you switch between, say, HE and AP rounds -- and many infantry fighting vehicles chainguns have dual ammo feed to allow just that. Recoil or gas operated guns likely need adjustments when you've got that amount of difference in projectile energy.

[@groofromtheup5719]

My shotgun is a Beretta 1200. It won't cycle trap and skeet rounds or even low brass rounds quite often. It also has a 2-3/4" chamber. That leaves a rather narrow window of operational rounds for me. I hear the 300blk has rather overcharged subsonic rounds to give it a prayer of properly cycling as well. This is a real issue.

[@TheHAIR00]

@@groofromtheup5719 I read this comment in a little Italian boy accent

[@blunderingfool]

@@TheHAIR00 I am now reading that comment with an Italian accent on purpose.

[@DarrellVermilion]

@@blunderingfool mama mia!! 🤌🤌

[@JThyroid]

@@groofromtheup5719 there are some 265 grain lead projectiles s available for the 300blk. They're designed to allow for a lighter powder charge to minimize gas, while still having enough pressure to cycle the gun. I loaded up some that weighed in at 260 grains with 10.45 grains of CFE BLK at 2.125" overall length. I was getting a consistent 960 fps with my 8.5" 1/8 PSA upper. I think this upper is over gassed because PSA. This 265 grain projectile is the same length of a much lighter jacketed projectile, so you don't end up with compressed loads.

[@BeingFireRetardant]

As much as I knew the answer already, and understood the logic... I was still really hoping Ian would say, "Do I see man portable chain guns, and guys with a backpack full of ammo, feed chutes, and a battery strapped to their web gear, becoming a reality? Yes, and here's why..."

[@shorewall]

Power Armor, baby! I will never give up the dream!

[@johnobrien8773]

There was a "mini-mini-gun" in .223 that was sort of what you're thinking of. Look up the GE Six-Pak. 27 pounds alone, 85 with a 1,000 round pack. Could be pretty handy but I always liked the Stinger .30 caliber machine gun.

[@farmerboy916]

@@johnobrien8773 It’s really an idea that calls out for its own specialized cartridge, for weight/ bulk reduction. After all the terminal effects of each cartridge don’t matter that much…

[@Name-nw9uj]

a man can dream...

[@minhducnguyen9276]

I was always wondering before they got compact batteries and electrical motors, why didn't they make the chain guns gas powered by two strokes engines like the weed whackers?

[@Tigerheart01]

Even as a gun enthusiast I never really understood what was meant by a "chain gun". I always thought it was just another way to refer to a belt fed gun... meaning the belt was the chain. This is awesome, thank you for explaining this to me. This makes more sense to me now why the 30mm gun on the M2 Bradley and the one on the AH - 64 Apache are called "Chain guns".

[@VincentNajger1]

Guns jamming in aircraft was such a seemingly common occurrence, it probably saved a lot of lives that would otherwise have ended....and ended a lot of lives that otherwise wouldn't have. "Guns have jammed!" became something that entered the everyday vernacular. I've watched a LOT of interviews with old pilots....most have at least one story that includes guns jamming.

[@richardsolberg4047]

A lot of that had to with G forces encountered in combat and a dud now and then , or earl in WWII oil gelling upon the guns at altitude .. damn cold when you are 25,000 ft and that fat was always taken into account ..

[@filmandfirearms]

That was down to several different factors. First, as Richard pointed out, G forces. It's the same reason fuel injection was such an important advancement for combat aircraft. Second, the different types of ammo. Most gun belts were made up of 2-4 different types of ammo. Most commonly, some mix of AP, HE or incendiary, and tracer versions of all of them. Different rounds have different weights, meaning different amounts of recoil, which means if the mechanics don't set the guns up properly, there might not be enough energy to cycle the weapon. Of course, this didn't always happen, or else no one would've used varied ammo types, but it was a risk. Third, you've got temperature. Cooler gas is heavier, it doesn't move as fast, and when oil gets cold, it can lock up the mechanism. Lastly, the sheer volume of rounds fired. For example, a Panzer 2 held about 20 rounds of 20mm per magazine. The early cannon armed BF-109s, using a variant of the same gun, had, depending on variant, about 200 rounds

[@MrTAGGER88]

Don't forget on Mustangs i believe, you had them putting socks on the tips of the guns so that when they engage at altitude the guns wouldn't be frozen. Actually I think that was the Spitfire. Either way, it explains a huge curiosity I had as a kid.

[@BogeyTheBear]

@@MrTAGGER88 The gun ports were taped over prior to firing. You could tell if a returning Spitfire had been in combat by the strips fluttering on the leading edge of the wing. The P-38's gun barrels protruded out the nose, so no goin' there with sealing. However, the gun bay had heating: warm(ish) air ducted from an engine in the earlt models, electric heaters in the late versions. Plus, there was a manual gun charger in the cockpit to cycle the four machine guns in the nose in the event of a stoppage.

[@andreambuter6806]

In WW2, many American and Allied aircraft were armed with AN/M3 Brownings, which were (according to my understanding) nearly identical to the infantry M2, just with a higher rate of fire. So those carried the reliability issues from infantry weapons and put them into an inaccessible area

[@ChevyCorvetteBoy]

I'd be interested in hearing about Revolver Cannons.

[@billyelliot4141]

I think u will like the puckle gun.kzbin.info/www/bejne/fYGmaH6fjqmmntk

[@keenumman1]

He did one on a Hotchkiss revolving cannon

[@Panzermeister36]

Those are just essentially miniguns with only one barrel, but multiple chambers. So you get the reliability of the external operating system, but these are used with firearms that don't need the insane rate of fire of a traditional multi-barrel system, so you don't need the extra barrels to take that heat.

[@timofiy98]

@@Panzermeister36 the whole point of minigun or a gatling gun in general is havinf multiple barrels

[@gus.smedstad]

Or maybe lever-operated cannons.

[@sixtofive]

A chain gun in a small cartridge like 5.7 or 4.6 mounted to the top of one of those robot dogs could tap into the power source that's already onboard and make a terrifying combo. Just imagine that thing breaking cover to charge towards your position while expending it's ammo supply and then self detonating to finish the job.

[@reynanlamsen2007]

And then it gets hacked by the machine gods and they will then use them to hunt us instead.

[@IlyaSPARTAN108]

Don't ever make those combinations of words again

[@darksu6947]

@@IlyaSPARTAN108 You don't tell me what to do old man! Lol

[@IlyaSPARTAN108]

@@darksu6947 not you, sixtofive

[@darksu6947]

@@IlyaSPARTAN108 I know you weren't talking to me. I was just fucking with you.

[@lukeman9851]

This was a great question! Up till now I had heard chaingun/minigun/Gatling gun interchangeably, so I learned a lot. That said, a purely recreational .22LR chaingun sounds delightful

[@murphy7801]

Why not make it multi barreled

[@fredbecker607]

At this point, there is no legal way to do that. New machine guns/automatic weapons are police/military only. Hopefully, changing soon.

[@TheRealAaronSmith]

@@fredbecker607 nah, there's legal ways to build your own. Assuming your in the US that is. Haven't you seen the myriad of guntubers building themselves new production automatics? Not exactly sure of the process, but there is one for sure.

[@williamsacksteder9438]

@@TheRealAaronSmith My understanding is that those are all post sample machine guns, meaning that in order to build the gun, they need to first receive a letter from a law enforcement or military agency requesting that they procure such a firearm in order to demonstrate it to said organization for education or potential procurement. The manufacturer can keep that gun afterwards since they might need to do the same thing again, but it is not transferrable. This all assumes fancy licences are already obtained before that process can even begin.

[@joelrodriguez9661]

@@TheRealAaronSmith those guys are all largely SOTs who can manufacture those weapons. They can't really be sold. At least not to civilians.

[@alexsis1778]

A chaingun only really makes sense in applications where you're already going to have a power supply there. Which means you also more than likely have a vehicle to go with it making the weight concerns a lot less of an issue.

[@SSSeTEDS]

Hughes hasn't been in the business of chainguns since 1984. Right now the Bushmaster trademark is held by Northrop Grumman. For some reason, the L94A1 is built by H&K. Apparently, the other application is in naval mountings where, presumably, saltwater plays havoc with the open operating systems of conventional machine guns. In US Navy services as the Mk. 52.

[@dinoc.5537]

Steve is correct. I worked on the Chain Gun Programs in Culver City till the IP was transferred and the facilities closed. The helicopter business was first sold to McDonnell Douglass in 1985, then to Boeing in 1997, then to Alliant Techsystems which then became Orbital ATK in 2015, then went to Northrop Grumman in 2018 where it is still being produced. There are also versions from HK as in the L94A1 which goes down to 7.62x51. At least 15 countries operate variations at my last count.

[@jonathanenglish9146]

When cleaning up the MPRC (Multi Purpose Range Complex) at Fort Campbell, we would find piles of unfired 30mm TP rounds on the range at different firing stations. One of the Platoon Sergeants took the time to explain the function of a chain gun since we only ever used belt fed machineguns and didn't comprehend how a helicopter didn't have to land to clear a dud or unfired round. However the Battalion Sergeant Major showed up complaining we were taking too long clearing the range and handed out snow shovels for the guys to shovel these piles of electrically fired 30mm ammo lying on concrete. One of the shovels sparked on the concrete setting off a round injuring several privates, nothing seemingly serious (small cuts). The next day one of the married private's wife found him in a coma with an x-ray revealing a piece of shrapnel lodged in the back of his skull which had passed through the front. Once treated he mostly returned to normal and was medically retired.

[@MrDdaland]

Hope that SGM was retired

[@jonathanenglish9146]

@@MrDdaland Are they ever? No, just pushed the blame on "dumb ass privates".

[@termitreter6545]

One more reason I wouldnt eve want to join the military. Fuck potentially making my life and health dependant on morons like that. Not the first time I heard that stories. People getting hurt or killed in places they shouldnt ever have been in, just because theres some idiot in the chain of command. And institutions like that having a tendency towards corruption loves to cover it up. As long as my country isnt attacked and loved people about to be enslaved, imma stay really far away from the military.

[@Luckcu13]

Shit man, that sucks to hear, my condolences

[@Chiller01]

Coulda used plastic snow shovels.

[@IShyper]

I don't think this would be come a reality even if we'll eventually develop a electric powered exoskeleton, in such case I think we'll still keep guns cycling with power of their ammunition, we'll just give that one soldier a backpack filled with ammunition. Because why carry additional battery for your gun when you can carry more ammunition.

[@theglitchcounter264]

I mean you can use a camera stabilizer to make it far easier to move with. So it isn’t really that far fetched

[@dirkbruere]

One man with the gun, and a robo-donkey with the ammo

[@MarvinCZ]

Maybe if we don't put the gun in the soldier's hands but instead mount it somewhere on the exoskeleton where the soldier can't easily reach it - see for example the Edge of Tomorrow exoskeletons. I think a chain gun would be appropriate there. Of course that's not the type of exoskeleton we are likely to see in the near future but it is a distinct possibility.

[@willh2739]

this is such fucking goofy reasoning

[@Ramonatho]

To be fair if we ever get around to nuclear batteries, this won't be a problem. Vladof here we come!

Very interesting topic. Never knew the differences between chain guns and gatling guns.

[@The_Racr1]

i think the asker meant gatling guns

[@CiastoToKlamstwo]

While I love DooM, it's responsible for popularizing two of the most common weapon related misnomers, minigun-chaingun and magazine-clip, probably being the source of the first one.

[@TheOz91]

When most laymen say "chaingun," they are referring to powered Gatling guns. But I do appreciate that Ian explains it using the actual definition of a chaingun--as used as the autocannons of IFVs like the LAV or Bradley, or the 30 mm cannon of the Apache. You can very finely control the rate of fire on the chaingun. Great for IFVs as you can program burst fire from a single trigger pull. I think there is a 30 mm portable chaingun in development on a small tracked drone for infantry support. It uses HEDP rounds with air burst. This is smaller than a car so it can be support infantry where vehicles can't get to.

[@mattfleming86]

My brain instantly went to "helicopter gun" and i'm quite lay

[@petrsukenik9266]

You can technicaly have Gatling chaingun if your ammunition is loaded by separate mechanism right?

[@TheOz91]

@@petrsukenik9266 There is such thing as a "revolver cannon" where the the back end is like a Gatling but it still has only one barrel. This is the cannon used in some European fighter jets, the Mauser BK-27

[@Omnonymous]

@@petrsukenik9266 When folks say "Gatling" they typically mean some system of multiple barrels rotating around an axis. "Chaingun" refers primarily to (Like Ian talked about.) the chain driven loading and rate of fire management. Combine both features? You'd take the weight penalty of both the chain drive and multiple barrels. I'd still like to see a good try at one of those.

[@davydatwood3158]

@@petrsukenik9266 technically, yes, if you had a rotary gun where the loading mechanism was powered by a chain, it would be a "rotary chain gun." Which is probably part of where the confusion comes in for layfolk. As jargon, though, my understanding is that "chain gun" is only used for single barreled weapons. It's kind of like how people use the term "lithium-ion" battery to only mean electric tool batteries, even though technically all lithium based batteries also use ions (indeed, all batteries use ions, it's how they work) and thus the terms "lithium battery" and "lithium-ion battery" are technically the same thing. Or how "Organic food" is understood to mean food grown without synthetic fertilisers or pesticides, even though technically anything that counts as food (ie, humans can digest it and gain useful nutrition from it) is by definition "organic."

[@distincttouch4287]

Just a tiny correction! The British AFV-mounted machinegun is actually designed as "L94A1", the "L34A1" is a suppressed Sterling SMG from WWII😄

[@joshtalley6604]

No offense, but the Sterling wasn't used in WW2. It was first fielded in 1953.

[@darchensol5112]

@@joshtalley6604 didn't go into active service in large numbers until '53. but it was in testing with british forces from 1944 onwards

[@darchensol5112]

was tested as Patchett Machine Carbine Mark 1

[@slowfuse]

yea i googled it and was like wtf. first time I ever saw Ian fuck up in a decade. God is dead.

[@guaposneeze]

One reason for the chain is that reliably synching 4 or 5 different actuators has historically been complex and hard. Modern actuators may be sufficiently compact and reliable that it makes sense going forward to just have a different small actuator on each thing that needs to move. At that point, you can have a "chain gun" without needing to worry about routing the actual chain through the also-complex firing+loading mechanism. A modern SPI or OneWire electronic bus would have zero issues synching actuators down to microsecond precision. And critically, if anything started to go wrong with one actuator, it can have a built in sensor to say what it is doing. Rather than having a misfire if one actuator starts to go wonkey, the firmware can just gracefully slow down the rest of the system to match the part that is starting to wear out. Related to this, the Shinzo Abe assasination apparently used an electric firing "match lock." If you had an electrcicty source in a "chainless chaingun" design, you could use that sort of electric firing instead of using a firing pin, which simplifies another part of the design. Just need to get the round physically in a closed chamber, and hit it with the spark.

[@sf4137]

You say all these things like it's easy, when everything you said is incredibly complex to actually implement correctly. I work in an industrial environment and my job is to troubleshoot machines all day and that's not actually my job title. What do you do when the sensors don't tell you anything is wrong but the machine isn't working?

[@SirSpence99]

​@@sf4137 You seem to be mistaking industrial machines that run multiple hours a day for devices that would maybe get an hour of actual motion after a month of heavy use. The reliability requirements are so vastly different that I wouldn't be surprised if the *last* thing to fail would be the sensors/motors. As for the Abe, situation, that worked with exposed powder, triggering a primer with electricity can actually be harder to do.

[@edireland8983]

If a shoulder arm could be built, a weapon with no gas mechanism to get dirty and with a fully electronically controlled trigger, seems interesting to me.

[@groofromtheup5719]

keeping everything clean and cycling regardless of charge are the 2 big benefits that I see.

[@CATASTEROID934]

The Remington EtronX was a bolt-action (IIRC) that used electrically primed .30-06 and used a unique dual firing pin-like setup battery to pass current through and fire those primers

[@garysmcdermott]

Whatever happened to the electrically primed, caseless ammo based weapons that could have accomplished this as well? Is this still on the horizon, or abandoned as unfeasible?

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@garysmcdermott caseless almost big problem is heat, no casing to expell greatly increases how much heat it has, and for a weapon that is stuck next your face the last thing you want is that to overheat

[@edireland8983]

@@groofromtheup5719 You could probably a system with no firing pin spring and positive control over the firing pin at all times. Unprecedented levels of drop and out of battery safety.

[@bobhill3941]

Very cool, when Ian mentioned "sentry gun" I instantly thought of the "laptop gun" from Perfect Dark where it's a rifle that can be converted into a proximity fired Gatling gun.

[@boomslangCA]

No, for me it was the sentry guns in Aliens. Not sure if they were supposed to be chain guns but suspect they were just designed to look cool.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@boomslangCA well it has one barrel and a power pack in the picture I just googled so I'd say that it was desighned off a chaingun

[@1959Edsel]

@@calebbarnhouse496 the actual guns used in the movies were MG-42's with decorative bits added to make them look more scifi, plus the swiveling mounts.

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@1959Edsel the swivel mount covers up all the gun outside rhe barrel, so the gun they used doesn't matter there

[@calebbarnhouse496]

@@neilcook4686 googled it to be sure and both of them were made using an mg42, so it's quite possible

[@Chlorate299]

I suppose it's all down to energy densities, lithium ion batteries are great but firearm propellant beats it in terms of energy stored per unit mass by more than an order of magnitude. So storing the energy to run the action within the cartridge will be less than 1/10th the mass of the battery you'd need to do the same job, and that's without the motor, transmission, and control electronics you'd need on top of that. As Ian says - gas operated automatic weapons are *really* well optimised machines.

[@Yoel_Mizrachi]

I believe the technical term 'energy density' refere to energy per unit of volume. Energy per unit of mass should be specific energy.

[@lakiza55]

A hybrid type system could be a solution, even though the concept of man-portable chainguns doesn't really make much sense, in my opinion. Similarly to internal combustion engines powering the alternator that charges the battery, you could use a gas system that charges the battery which powers the system that operates the action, making it self sustained. Still, the weight and complexity would limit the practicality of such a firearm.

[@termitreter6545]

I feel like it could be interesting to try to collecct recoil energy to charge the battery. Like have the recoil springs charge a battery somehow. But then again, that would be more weight, and the recoil to create energy might be too much for a mobile infantry arm.

[@jebise1126]

that is probably true but how efficient are current systems and how much energy do you actually need to operate such gun? it may be little difference

[@donaldfeger91]

Wow you're really smart!

[@Lunageldia]

The only place I could see for the chaingun as an infantry arm would be the main weapon if someone puts powered exoskeletons into use. I'm thinking Edge of Tomorrow style suits, but with a belt feed instead of the kinda silly little box mags they get. So TL;DR yeah no it's not likely lol. Would be cool though.

[@TheDandyMann]

Thicc bois looking like terminators from Warhammer 40k

[@mercenaryTendencies]

My thoughts exactly. It would allow for offsetting the weight, and you wouldn't have easy access to clearing it. That said, who knows if or when that will ever happen

[@kylefindlan4450]

I'd argue it would be more likely in a Fallout style power armor. Big and clunky, reduced manual dexterity. Fallout style suits also being the least practical and likely form of PA.

[@termitreter6545]

Even at that point grenade launchers and missiles might be better for increased firepower. And there is gas-operated 30mm autocannons, so its not like even an autocannon necessarily requires any special mechanism.

[@nucleus691]

powered exo skeletrons require so much energy that even if they were put to use at some point, you wouldnt ever be able to use its battery for anything else. Energy storage is actually one of the main reasons why powered exo skeletrons arent used, they simply use so much power that any benefit it would have for mobility or saving weight would be offset by the massive battery you'd have to carry around for it.

[@PassTheSnails]

I would imagine the man-portable chaingun would be the world’s first weapon designed exclusively for the fun-factor of firing it at ranges or at home as opposed to any sort of real applicability. Hence why I personally would not jeer at its very existence.

[@andrewkvk1707]

I'm willing to wager there have been plenty of novelty gun designs with no real practical application before although I don't have any examples on mind. Engineers just love to engineer whacky things.

[@paleoph6168]

I bet it would be named the BWC Hand-held Chaingun. BWC = Because We Can

[@flyngmunky2938]

I've always dreamed of making a belt ged pistol caliber minigun, something that could be carried with two hands and powered by a car battery

[@lasskinn474]

it'll need to be somehow semi-auto only approved though, that's kinda hard. designing a gun with mechanism operated by a battery drill is quite simple(and people have done it), it being legal is kinda the hard part it needs to be "hard" to convert to full auto. some guy in finland built one few decades ago for example. he went to register it (somehow naively I dunno the full story was he just crazy or what) and you can guess they didn't like.

[@TheDandyMann]

@@flyngmunky2938 I had the same idea, I want to use 5.7 for it 🤣

[@YesManVegasBaybay]

I’ve worked on the Apache 30mm for years. It’s an amazing operating system and a fantastic gun.

[@chuckbridgeland6181]

"drone portable chain gun" had me immediately thinking of something like the Boston Dynamics mechanical "dog things". Mobile device, with internal power supply (however long it actually lasts in the real world) to be drawn on.

[@ctrlaltdebug]

Aren't those things ICE-powered?

[@davidelang]

@@ctrlaltdebug no, battery powered

[@skaldlouiscyphre2453]

There's nothing more American than taking your pet chaingun for a walk. I'm gonna need an armed version of one of those dog things now. 😅

[@PassiveDestroyer]

I immediately thought of walking versions of the sentry drones from Portal.

[@scottsammons7747]

Portal 2

[@kwongyeang]

That was an amazing explanation, Ian - BRAVO !! You compressed into 13.40minutes, a topic and discussion that could well be a thesis or reference article, and then delivered it verbally. I hope you continue having fun with these questions. Your fun is our fun !!

[@magnusjrgensen1575]

The only situation i see where a hand held chaingun would work is in combination with an exoskeleton to help increase carry capacity. Both technologies are held back by limited energy storage

[@JohnADoe-pg1qk]

Just a picture in my head: The exoskeleton guy is followed by and tethered to a battery carrying walking drone.

[@veldin25]

@@JohnADoe-pg1qk the walking drone is in turn followed by another drone, holding a battery. All the way down 😂

[@notcreativebush5702]

@@veldin25 i think you've just invented a really long cable with extra steps.

[@robertwarner5963]

Would you need an exo-skeleton to absorb the recoil of a fast-firing (e.g. more than 1,000 rounds per minute) machine gun?

[@LordDarthHarry]

Ad some armor to the exoskeleton. Fallout 4 theme plays.

[@enricopaolocoronado2511]

We're gonna end up like Doomguy at some point. (Yes, I'm aware that the Chaingun from Doom isn't even an actual chaingun.)

[@alexglanowski695]

I remember having this discussion with some guys way back in high school. Their argument was "But it's got a chain". Hard to argue with that...

[@mulrich]

In the 2016 and 2020 games, it *is* actually a multibarrel chain-driven gun. In "DOOM Eternal", it's even a chain *rail* gun!

[@44R0Ndin]

I'm thinking the Doom 2016 shoulder-mounted grenade thrower "thing" (based on Metal Storm 3GL type tech) is gonna become a reality in some way before the chain gun does, unless we discover that we should start making guns out of Titanium (for weight savings).

[@mulrich]

@@44R0Ndin that's "DOOM Eternal" 😉 the Slayer doesn't have the shoulder rig in "2016".

[@voltekthecyborg7898]

@@mulrich Sorta. It fires 7.62 x 51 AE, which is more powerful than the standard 7.62 NATO that comes with an electromagnetic case for its rail system, in which the bullet is slung faster and reduces overheating

[@totensiebush]

I would expect it to be fairly simple on a minigun to have adjustable fire rate by running the motor at a different speed. If you want to fire at 600rpm, you can do so for a very long time without overheating. If you want to fire at 5000rpm, you can do so for a brief time. Not sure whether this has been implemented.

[@ChoChan776]

In the F-15, you can select between 4000 and 6000 rpm. 6000 gives you about 9 seconds of firing time.

[@nucleus691]

Pretty sure you can adjust the RoF of a minigun just by changing how fast it rotates. Like if you just try to force the barrels to rotate 1 click the gun will fire so you could just get a motor to spin it at a rate of 20 rotations per minute or 140 rounds per minute. Very slow but Im pretty sure its possible.

[@matthewn4896]

I suspect there's not much point, miniguns exist to throw as much lead as possible in a very short space of time. If you only want 500rpm, most modern, general purpose machine guns are perfectly capable of sustaining that for quite a while, if you have a spare barrel or two.

[@totensiebush]

@@matthewn4896 I'm making this up but it could be a way to allow suppressive fire without the space/weight of an extra MG or burning through your ammo at full rate

[@jolanderphilip]

@@totensiebush mini guns don’t like running in short burst or slow They like to chew

[@jonp8015]

I had an idea once for a gun action where the gas from firing compressed a spring that had enough travel to operate the action twice so that the action would cycle (after a delay) even on a dud. The thing was an absolute complicated mess though when I put it to paper. Your mention of the situations where this would be useful makes me kind of want to revisit the idea though.

[@DTinkerer]

Cool

[@StephenRWilliams]

Ian: You could put a chain gun on an automated sentry or drone... @BrandonHerrera: Write that down! Write that down!

[@kellyalger2394]

What's up you sexy KZbin mother lovers! Today we have a a new machine gun to show you, but first a word from Raid Shadow Legends!

[@4gust4]

This new format of FAQ tends to answer less questions but on a much more detailed manner. Great change Ian !👏🏼

[@MythicMagus]

Thanks for enlightening me Ian. I've always heard that these kind of weapons were limited to vehicles, but I assumed it was mainly related to weight. I did not think about how a mechanical action would allow you to clear jams without being able to access the action manually. Your perspective is always fascinating.

[@andrewgordon235]

The chain gun shares a lot of commonality with a garage door opener. Look at a diagram of both they're very similar.

[@CCXjunk]

The L94 mounted in British AFVs is a nightmare for stoppages so we find ourselves having to clear it frequently. Certain stoppages require you to wait 10 minutes before completely disassembling the thing. This is mainly an issue with the way the belt is fed so a good crew knows how to deal with it. The gun is accessible though! While not tucked into a corner, the short length of it (less the barrel) means it doesn’t jut out into the middle of the turret. Being electrically operated also means that the gunner can fire it and the main armament from the same set of controls. Oh and also chain guns are much cleaner running than gas operated guns!

[@TheCalifornianeskimo]

Literally did not know until today that a Chain gun had a literal chain in it. This makes so much sense

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

If we’re talking about man-portable HMGs, the XM312 comes to mind as a relatively light weight .50 (and 20mm HE) weapon system that had a slow fire rate and integral optics for improved per-shot-accuracy. It did not pass trials due to less reliability, heat tolerence, and fire rate compared to the M2 in mechanized applications. The SIG MG338 may be the current solution to increasing power and range in a man-portable package. Sig claims that the .338 Norma Mag AP has better penetrating capabilities at 2000yds than .50 BMG AP.

[@MPdude237]

I find the penetration claim to be highly dubious. .338 Norma mag will definitely provide better penetration than 5.56, .308 or even the new 6.8 round, but the math doesn’t add up to be better than .50 BMG. According to Norma’s website, a 300 grain round has a velocity of 2600-2700 FPS, while a 647 grain round will have 3000 FPS when fired from an M2.

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

@@MPdude237 I was under the assumption that the ballistic coefficient would be in favor of the .338 NM at 2000yds+, but the opposite is true. 50 BMG has higher velocity, mass, and ballistic coefficient having 4x the energy at 2000yds. No amount of fancy armor piercing penetrators are going to beat that! Now I'll have to go through promotional videos to find that claim again.

[@AnonEMus-cp2mn]

@@MPdude237 Found the claim: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oGeZipKlrN-WitE at around 1:45. They put the claim at 1500 meters, not the 2000yds I incorrectly cited from memory. It seems highly dubious because the math just doesn't add up.

[@crabman3144]

Wow. Decent chunk of info in this one, and I even had the definition of a chaingun wrong this whole time; I was under the impression that a chaingun was basically anything fed from an ammo belt or chain, rather than the action being operated by a motor-driven chain.

[@brunoratto253]

I really like these super in-depth answers for the questions you get from your patreons. I think that it's better than having to fit many questions in a single hour long video because you can go into much further detail than you normally could. Thanks for all your amazing work Ian!

[@cypherfunc]

If mechs/exoskeletons ever become a thing, it seems like chain guns would be a good option. All of the benefits would apply, weight and power are less of an issue, and it saves on ammo vs a rotary gun.

[@jackal8176]

This is why I love Ian the man takes every opportunity to ponder and explore ideas without putting them down. No matter what the idea is he explores it to the fullest I'd love to hear his thoughts on sci-fi exo suits and powered armor and if there possible the benefits they would have over drones/robots on the battlefield.

[@groofromtheup5719]

I could see a capacitor that charges with a long stroke recoil, then has a mechanism that ejects and re-loads. I could see several advantages to that. The capacitor charge would be strong enough to cycle the gun a few time. The recoil ramp could be varied. the gun would stay cleaner. and several other advantages. I think having the action open with a delay after the round left the barrel would be the biggest benifit. could even blow a puff of compressed air into the chamber as the round if being extracted like a tank (I think)

[@t2force212]

I didn't even know what chain guns were before watching this so great job explaining it. One space I can see Man-Portable Chain Guns being used is with Power Armoured infantry. The armour developed while providing assistance with carry-weight may be too cumbersome to clear stoppages or fix malfunctions in decent time and would likely already require it's own power supply to run the armour that the gun may be able to tap into.

[@zstewart]

One interesting use for an externally powered action would be semi-automatic .22lr. One of the big limitations in 22lr is energy available for cycling, which can mean ubreliable cycling and limits how strong the striker/hammer can be which can often lead to light primer strikes. So the idea would be, using a regular semi-auto FCG and magazines, but having an externally powered system for automatically cycling the bolt after each shot.

[@getmeoutofsanfrancisco9917]

I'm no engineer, but I've always wanted to somehow build a man-portable revolver (auto) cannon. Like they use in aircraft. Basically a mini shVAK or BK-27 in .223/5.56 instead of the usual 20mm or 30mm. Awesome, but entirely impractical in every way. Could achieve some insane rpms, but cooling would probably be next to impossible (especially under sustained fire).

[@totensiebush]

Something firing 5.56 isn't a cannon, so I wouldn't call that an autocannon. Not sure what the right term for it would be.

[@andrewamann2821]

@@totensiebush "Fun," that's what you should call it.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@@totensiebush you have the minigun, but also the microgun as in, the smaller caliber using minigun. I think there was a Shotshow or some other gun related event that had the microgun promos.

[@leflavius_nl5370]

@@drivanradosivic1357 i remember seeing a .22lr minigun.

[@drivanradosivic1357]

@Cancer McAids I was under the impression that regardless of the magazine size of your automatic weapon, short controlled bursts of fire are preferable over just gluing the trigger to your trigger finger ammo dumping fire. Am I correct?

[@Wooskii1]

When you said "you don't need a recoil spring" for some reason I thought if any guns use an air shock instead (like a nitro piston from an air gun or a mountain/ dirt bike shock). Has that even been tried before? If so I would love to hear about it, even if it was a failure.

[@bighobo7745]

Many artillery guns use hydraulic recoil mechanisms but they are sorta bulky and won't allow for a high rate of fire.

[@russ8059]

The 25mm gun mounted on the LAV-25 that we had in the Marine Corps was a pretty awesome gun. They did have a tendency jam in the feed trays which would cause a major headache for the gunner to clear. But they were still great to have as back up for the dismounts

[@alandaters8547]

Great video, you explore/explain every facet of the question. The patent diagram is nice and about what I expected, but I'm still looking for a good animation (or live operation with a plexiglass sidewall to view the action!) to illustrate the chain operation, including variations like you mentioned. Subtle changes in chain path geometry could serve interesting purposes.

[@lasskinn474]

is the ease of converting an electricity fired ammo like that remington(?or what was it) into a full auto relevant to why there were only a bolt action gun made?

[@TheDandyMann]

Etronix ammo is what you're looking for. I want to find out if it could be made into an automatic too

[@clinthakeman893]

I wonder if a sort of chain gun mechanism would be desirable for caseless ammunition. While there's no ejection cycle that you need to worry about with caseless ammunition you wouldn't have to worry about tuning a gas system to reliably cycle when an using externally powered action cycling.

[@groofromtheup5719]

I don't think it would fly with caseless as it would lose the ability to handle duds.

[@LOVEMUFFIN_official]

Take a look at something like Metalstorm.

[@c.s.p.schofield2202]

So far, ceaseless ammunition has major durability problems. And I’m unpersuaded that that can be solved. To be practical caseless propellant must combust explosively and completely AND be durable enough to withstand handling in the field and along the supply chain.

[@magnusskipton7067]

I really like this format for your q&a videos

[@RealSpiderk]

would be super cool to see a traditional ian style disassembly video on any example of these guns

[@Lazarus7000]

Every time I see someone inquiring after "chain guns" I always wonder if they mean what are (somewhat) more properly called miniguns, because the _Doom_ series of video games mistakenly called theirs a chain gun (I suspect there was confusion over the two both being powerful automatic guns often mounted on helicopters). Being a military brat, I remember all the way back in 1993 when my dad carefully explained to me that a chain gun is any gun driven by a chain, and that the gun on-screen in the game could be a chain gun, as it is no identifiable re-world arm, but that it is not its multiple, rotating barrels that make it a chain gun. So I've always been a bit careful to ferret out what someone means when they say a "chain gun" because they might be mistaken. Especially since if you know what a chain gun really is you know it's a bit silly for a man-portable gun, you have the downside of a minigun in needing to bring along a car battery but you don't also have the "haha fuck you" levels of firepower a minigun brings (for all of six seconds, the reason nobody bothers to use miniguns this way and why flame-throwers are mostly gone, the ratio of "awesome firepower" to "have to schlep it back to the lines eleven times for more ammo" is not favorable).

[@JonathanRossRogers]

BTW, "chain gun" is a registered trademark of Northrop Grumman Innovation Systems, so even if you designed a gun powered by a chain, you couldn't legally sell it using that term without permission. Also, "Minigun" refers specifically to the M134 7.62x51mm six-barreled gun. It was scaled down from the 20mm Vulcan Cannon. Both the Vulcan Cannon and the Minigun are derived from Gatling guns and are not powered by chains.

[@Lazarus7000]

@@JonathanRossRogers Oh indeed I know all this, which is why I said they're only somewhat more properly called miniguns, but by the same token there's argument that "Minigun" is becoming a genericized trade-mark, especially as there is no other non-clunky way to refer to electrically-driven Gatling guns smaller than cannon-caliber ("Rotary Autocannon" rolls nicely off the tongue).

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@Lazarus7000 I don't think "Minigun" is a trademark and you are correct that the term is often used for any multi-barreled gun in popular culture. OTOH, "chain gun" is a trademark and AFAICT, none of the designs sold under that trademark have more than one barrel.

[@JonathanRossRogers]

@@glandhound If "minigun" is a trademark, who holds it? AFAICT, various companies manufacture them?

[@burntalive]

I feel like if we were to ever get to the energy densities required for chainguns, we'd probably have moved away from gunpowder projectiles into railgun or coilgun technologies. That would remove all chances of a "dud round" existing among many other benefits. The interesting bit would be that the actions of feeding the "action" of the gun would bring their own interesting problems since you no longer have the benefit gas and recoil operation; So in a sense you are still kind of using a chaingun concept of absolute outside mechanical operation!

[@bruceinoz8002]

"Block Chain" gun?

[@BogeyTheBear]

A railgun or coilgun would not require any energy or motion to extract a case so the action only has to deal with feeding the next projectile. Shorter bolt stroke and none of your momentum is shed through an extraction mechanism. You can avoid a lot of difficulties when you need to do only half the usual work.

[@SmokesKwazukii]

@@BogeyTheBear so are u saying that basically a traditional magazine or clip like feeding device would be all you need

[@emergingloki]

Hughes chaingun in UK service is the L94a1, L34a1 was the sterling. It is the Hughes EX34 though, so easy mistake to make on the fly. It's also cooled in the same way as a Lewis Gun. Another very insightful video. Many thanks Ian.

[@SteamGeezerUK]

One of the annoying things about the chaingun in the Warrior is that you actually have to fire it to unload it. There are always three(?) rounds in the gun when you stop firing and to "unload" it, you have to fire those three rounds. In fact, there is a specific command, "Unload! Do not fire!" used to unload a chaingun without firing it, which means partially disassembling the gun to get those three rounds out. On a GPMG, to unload it, you simply open the top cover and remove the belt, check the chamber and let the working parts forward.

[@dopedfurry2010]

What about a shoulder mounted, belt fed from a backpack, Grenade chain gun? A man portable carpet bomber possibly in 20mm? Able to obliterate entrenched enemies in buildings.

[@bavtie1]

I was already thinking of DOOM with this video, this just made me think of it even more. We all just secretly wanna become the doomslayer, huh

[@humblenoob7631]

With grenade launchers you’re probably gonna be in 40mm! this should have been on the iron man 2 war machine instead of the Gatling.

[@ZeroSuitSamo]

I remember seeing the 5.56 "Microgun" electric rotary gun at Shot a while back, so in that sense it's already being developed. But I don't think there is much practical need for such a thing to be man-protable. I'm curious though, I've heard that the Mk19 is very unpleasant to fire. And I've seen videos showing how much effort it takes to manually cycle it. I mean, the thing is just blowback operated so im assuming the bolt is massive and the recoil spring is clearly a beast. So I wonder if a chain gun design would be a good idea for a replacement. I'd bet some wait could be saved since the bolt mass no longer has to play a role in the fuction of the gun, and even if not the ease of use might be worth it.

[@TheDJOblivion]

The immediate problem I see with this is throwing unfired grenade rounds all over the shooting platform.

[@PassiveDestroyer]

The Mk19 uses similar High Pressure/Low Pressure cartridges to the M79/M203/M320, so the bolt is big, but not truly massive. It's unpleasant to fire because it bounces around so much from the large(for a machine gun) bolt moving back and forth.

[@ZeroSuitSamo]

@@TheDJOblivion true, but I mean, they aren't armed yet. Plus you could tune it to eject shells at a less-than-scary velocity just in case lol

[@ZeroSuitSamo]

@@PassiveDestroyer exactly my point. If the bolt was entirely controlled by the chain mechanism, then it wouldn't have to be big and heavy, and it also wouldn't need to move as violently

[@nathanjordan1782]

@@ZeroSuitSamo the rounds are rotationally armed, so ejecting a “dud” will absolutely risk having it roll to a friendly position armed, and who knows if the actual grenade itself is a dud or not

[@steelblade1]

As Jesse Ventura pointed out while firing the hand held GE134 minigun in 'Predator' "you had to grit your teeth and hold on". Even with blanks and the rate of fire scaled down to 1250 RPM, it had horrendous recoil. If you were to fire it at the full 6000 RPM, even someone large would have a problem. In the end, by the time you scale it down enough to be useful, you get the M60 also shown in the film, or you get a large vehicle holding the weapon.

[@robbiewilliamson357]

i love that dude doesn’t respond to “silly” questions in a demeaning way. that’s how you build and contribute to a community. 🤙🏻nice work, brother

[@hawkstable8889]

4:22 a lot of non-externally powered aircraft guns have automatic recocking systems, the GSh-30-1 for example has a few pyrotechnic cocking charges to cycle the gun in the case of a jam.

[@doggwoggle]

You also need to charge the batteries. Perhaps some sort of gas-piston-operated dynamo could charge them? 🙃

[@rusdanibudiwicaksono1879]

That... Like, wouldn't that reduce the velocity of munition? Like, pretty noticeable?

[@IShyper]

What is the point of removing gas piston used to cycle the gun only to add different gas piston to cycle the "dynamo" :)

[@webtoedman]

Usually powered off of the vehicle's electrical supply.

[@meanmanturbo]

This is some wind turbines on top of trains logic right here.

[@zbyszanna]

@@IShyper that's the joke

[@smaug131]

Great video! It reminds me of the speculative videos on swords that Matt Easton does. On the topic of bullets being your battery, I wonder if the energy of the recoil that the bullets generate can be used to charge the battery for a bit to make it last longer. It would probably result in heavier bullets, because it results in more propellant being needed, but perhaps it is a more efficient way of storing energy than a battery is, resulting in it saving weight in the end.

[@HXIIIAEGIS]

Thank you for the explanation about the difference between chain gun and minigun/rotary barrel-based weapon system where its application are needed. I always thought that the reason why most of IFV and helicopters with cannon rounds use chain gun system instead of minigun system is due to accuracy and not to waste excessive amounts of ammo in a particularly complex system where a damage to the gun and ammo consumption would require a mechanic repair and rearm back at the base,sometimes thousands of miles away from mission area,thus the need of single-barrel chain gun system to sustain the weapon safely and reliably.

[@omarrp14]

For unmanned it seems like it’d be required. Seeing infantry machine guns strapped to drones always made me wonder what happens during a malfunction

[@DreadNought0255]

One aspect where electrically operated firearms might have some advantage in terms of weight and materials is that you can further polymerize the design. You don't need metallic bolt carriers for example because all it does is carry the bolt. Depending on design the only metal operating components could be the barrel, the bolt head, firing pin and what is needed for the electricals. Personally I think the question was a bit too narrow. The better one could of been: Are electrically operated firearms likely to happen? I think yes. The potential benefits for operational and manufacturing flexibility are not insignificant.

[@a.r.c582]

Ian, even after years of watching your channel, I am still learning things in your videos

[@copperlemon1]

One solution to problem of clearing large or inaccessible guns is the use of cocking charges. After a stoppage, a charge can be fired that will drive a piston and cycle the action. Used on the BK-27 and GSh-6-23 (a self powered rotary cannon) and probably more. The GSh-30-1 has a different, but somewhat comparable system; if the primer fails, a cartridge located to the side of the chamber can fire, poking through the case and hopefully setting off the the charge.

[@Bazzooka1518]

Finally, the Call of Duty Death Machine answer!!!!

[@grits_taste_good415]

Often, I like to think about needing to theoretically design an improvised firearm, and using a chain with modern power storage is an interesting concept, especially if improvised ammunition is a must, say some inconsistent measured black powder shotshells or even making my own self contained cartridge

[@matts9116]

Quick swap barrels with mini glow plug, small diameter = higher psi rating…. 9 volt Pepper box

[@274152]

Ian, great analysis as always. You might add a bit on the chain gun and potential hangfires. Without some additional sensing and mechanical intervention, the chain guns don't "know" that a round hasn't fired correctly, and the external motor unlocks the bolt--that could allow a delayed propellant charge to go off in the breech. Early on, Hughes put a system on the M242 that would interrupt the cycle if this happened. Don't know what the current configuration is, whether hang fire protection is still an issue for the chaingun designs.

[@N0B0DY_SP3C14L]

That was an excellent explanation of the workings and features of a chain gun. Thank you, sir. This was most educational.

[@johnmcclain3887]

My experience was in helicopters, loading the Cobra's with the 20 mm, external mount, compared with the M-2's and 1919's out the door and gunner's window on CH-46's and CH-53's, perhaps dating myself with these references.

[@WALTERBROADDUS]

As I recall ,the Cobra has a non-chain gun.

[@trogdor8764]

Is there a ballistic advantage in an externally powered firearm, because you don't need to waste the energy in the cartridge to cycle the action? It seems like you should be able to get more performance for the same weight, or the same performance for less weight.

[@MrMonkeybat]

I have seen videos comparing manual and semi auto firearms of the same barrel length there was no measurable difference. On most weapons the bullet leaves the barrel before the action begins opening, the velocity of the slide is also quite minor compared to the velocity of the bullet also.

[@trogdor8764]

@@MrMonkeybat Okay, but couldn't that be explained by the bullet leaving the barrel before it reaches its maximum potential velocity? And therefore it would go faster if the barrel was longer, or the same speed if there was less propellant?

[@MrMonkeybat]

@@trogdor8764 Small cartridge long barrel no diference kzbin.info/www/bejne/d32lk2dtrN5mgpI

[@ditzydoo4378]

Hughes Aircraft made many different Chain-guns from 7.62x51mm, .50-caliber, 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, 35mm 40mm. Rate of fire is Single-Shot, low rate (100 shots per minute), high-rate 200 shots pre-minute. There was an M242, 25mm mounted on the ADATS that had a 5-horse motor giving very high rate of 500 hots per-minute. As a Senior Ordnance instructor, I taught chain-guns.

[@carloshenriquezimmer7543]

About using a electrically powered weapons for UAVs, it is an already developing concept. One example is the "microgun", a "man-portable/man operateble" minigun, in 5.56NATO. It was developed to be mounted in drones (primarially), for when the operation requires some concentrated anti-personel fire, without the risk of high collaterall damage.

[@titaniummechanism3214]

I did some googling about aircraft cannons in modern fighter jets and came across something called "revolver cannon", if you ever come across one of those I'd love to see you explain it!

[@azkrouzreimertz9784]

The puckle gun, its on forgotten weapons. Its the closest thing that i can think of

[@tinyprince]

It's fairly easy to Google for yourself. It's basically a single-barreled autocannon that feeds and ejects rounds via a revolving cylinder, usually gas-operated. They are lighter than comparable rotary guns, but their rate of fire is limited by barrel heat capacity.

[@meanmanturbo]

@@tinyprince Sounds reasonable for fighter jets since they will only be shooting very short and very few bursts, the weight saving being worth the decreased heat capacity.

[@TheDagraner4576]

I danced with the bushmaster chaingun for far too long inside the bradley. I don't care what size they make want to make these things, I don't want to deal with them.

[@IngramZero]

For the US, currently I believe we are still using the 25mm Bushmaster, the Navy, USMC, and Army. On a LAV-25, the gun could be set to single, 100 rounds or 200 rounds, I believe on Bradleys it goes to 500 instead of 200. The higher rate for engaging flying targets if needed. the Gunner of course wants to burst fire since the ready rack only holds a few hundred, can't remember the exact count, but I think combined for an LAV it was around 750. Someone else mentioned this but another nice thing about chain guns is having multiple feeds for different ammo type and being able to switch between them.

[@yuriyromaniw6629]

Also note with a chain gun, the bolt mass is much less critical and can be made lighter, there is no need for a recoil spring or buffer system, and the barrel can truly be free floated since there is no need for gas ports/tubes. You can also use the chain drive motor controller to effectively program firing patterns such as semi, full auto, or any variety of burst modes without mechanical disconnects or ratchetting systems.

[@RaydenSavage]

A powered exoskeleton like the kind the United States was looking at might make it more feasible with a gun mount, but only slightly more.

[@ML-sc3pt]

If a full blown exoskeleton becomes common practice the versatility to manually clear a weapon will likely be lost. It would likely become a necessity if not becoming a gun like a B2 battledroid hooked up to a HUD

[@TheEvertw]

When adding a chaingun to a drone, the battery is already there, that makes the weight disadvantage a lot smaller.

[@patrikhjorth3291]

...except that you're going to deplete that battery a lot faster, meaning less time in the air.

[@TheEvertw]

​@@patrikhjorth3291 After completing a fire mission, the drone should return to reload anyway. If that drone can not carry a large battery, it can neither carry a lot of ammunition.

[@00Q722]

@@TheEvertw If it could carry a large battery, cutting back on it to carry ammunition becomes a balancing act with potential for useless setups.

[@Norman_Fleming]

Love the explanation of the pros and cons of the different systems.

[@johannesdolch]

Yes, we will see at least 1 gun developed in this style, which will be the infamous Panther Assault Cannon. But since it is really only "man"-portable for meta-humans (which don't exist yet) or humans who are heavily augmented with cyberware/bioware, one could argue that it is technically in a different category.

[@boingkster]

Lithium batteries, lightweight barrels, 5.56 or smaller rounds... why not? The XM214 has been a thing since 1966.

[@crispy_338]

He literally went over “why not” 🤨

[@JamesLaserpimpWalsh]

Man portable chain guns? Why? Not a practical weapon unless its on a vehicle. The rate of fire means you would need five people just to lug the ammo. Probly better to just bolt it onto a jeep eh? Cheers Ian.

[@TheUlquiorraCifer]

The only way I can see it working and be practical is for clearing buildings in the future where armored exo-suits are capable. You could have a dude in one of those suits with a big ammo pack on his back. It'd basically be like a CQB battletank.

[@azkrouzreimertz9784]

Agree, eventually we will get those sick exo suits but until then its better mounted on a veichle or a tripod.

[@totensiebush]

As he says, rate of fire on chain guns doesn't tend to be significantly different from typical machine guns.

[@44R0Ndin]

As said in the video, the rate of fire isn't anything like a minigun. Single barrel, so rate of fire is limited to around 1000 rounds per minute and even then that's the burst rate of fire, not sustained. Now I do agree with you that man portable chain guns don't make sense unless you have the powered exoskeleton to go with them, but that's because they're heavier than their otherwise similar recoil or gas operated designs and servicing those isn't particularly hard when you have easy access to the whole weapon.

[@jfs1291]

I love these ask Ian segments

[@MatthewBaileyBeAfraid]

BTW, there are Gas-Operated Gatling-Gun/Mini-Gun systems that don’t require a motor to operate them. Their barrels feed a gas-vent into the center of their rotation (with a system that cuts-off the vent to the other barrels when not firing to prevent pressure loss to those barrels), which then drives a variety of different mechanisms for rotating the column of barrels like in a Gatling/Mini-gun. They are weird in that they take a bit to really get up to speed, and that they obviously don’t tend to be as powerful as the electrically driven varieties. But they are preferred for operations where electric-power is either limited or non-existent.

[@nekomakhea9440]

I've seen some WW2 footage of Sailors cocking 20mm guns. They just get two big dudes on either side to grab hold of ropes looped over the cocking lugs, and the two big dudes just throw their body weight backwards to cock it. It's way faster than any of the "by the book" ways of cocking the gun.

[@MrCrystalcranium]

There is another interesting rotating cannon device that was installed on the Northrop F-5 fighter, the M39 Rotating cannon. Gas operated, it's a single barrel, 20mm gun where the propellant rotates and continuously loads a five chamber magazine...sorta like a 44 Magnum on steroids! Unlike a six-shooter, the M-39 reloaded itself continuously. It became obsolete when the M-61 came online.

[@Badspot]

A few things that might tip the balance of this idea: If you wanted to switch to electronic firing anyway, either for an aim assistance system like TrackingPoint or to reduce the need for primers if you went full electrothermal ignition. And/or if your soldier is already carrying a large power supply for comms/nightvision/powered exoskeleton.

[@1991apfel]

I like that format better than the usual Q&As, because they are shorter and better to watch. :)

[@STIZEN9]

I really appreciate how sharp and intelligent Ian is on the topic of MGz. He makes it easy to understand. Hey IAN! Can you do more videos on pneumatic MGz, like the caselman maybe??? PLEASE

[@pizdamatii5001]

interesting to note that some gas-operated cannons, both single-barrel (eg. mauser bk-27) and rotary multi-barrel (eg. the old soviet gsh-6-23) use pyrotechnic charges to to re-cock the gun after a misfire, so you get some of the reliability of the external power source.

[@notablediscomfort]

*hits blunt: What if instead of a pure chaingun, we added like an airsoft motor somewhere in the gun that moves the bolt when it malfunctions but also has a clutch system so normal function won't be slowed by the motor. Specifically only run this on machineguns/SAWs with low reliability problems. Also charge the battery with regular operation by putting magnets in the bolt so it creates a small electrical impulse every time it runs through a coil, which is also in the gun.

[@straggler64]

One thought I had is whether the chain system would be an adequate trade-off to facilitate case-less ammunition. Theoretically with the fouling and reliability issues of caseless an external driver could be worth it. Maybe for something like a Man portable SAW and enough ammunition to set up a significant defensive position, the chain system adds, 8 # but then you save 30# in brass weight. Compound the weight savings with the advantages to drones and you could have an armed drone system with enough ammo to provide significant fire support over an extended operation without having to resupply.

[@FutureKarkat]

I think in the hypothetical future of powered exoskeletons for infantry, chain guns may have an application for a system wherein the user's arms/hands are constrained by some kind of gauntlets for heavy lifting, thereby preventing dexterous manipulation of the bolt and other interfaces on a traditional self loading system, whether recoil or gas operated. In addition, the exoskeleton would be able to support the weight of the firearm itself, as well as the ammunition and battery. Of course, this is all pure conjecture and likely outside the realm of likelihood, but it's still neat and cool sci-fi stuff to think about.

[@Zaprozhan]

Thank you sir, for the thoughtful and informative answer. I also learned the difference between a multi-barrel gun and chain gun!

[@hibob841]

Fantastic content as always, Ian. You raise a point I hadn't ever considered, and one I find equally fascinating and terrifying: the scenario in which a chain gun or minigun experiences a hangfire. First of all, having never witnessed a hangfire in *any* weapon during my service nor couple decades of civilian shooting, I agree it's highly improbable. But what if were to happen? I'm thinking the absolute worst-case would be an aircraft autocannon in something like an A-10 or AH-64, as I believe those systems usually return spent cases right back to the magazine. Do such weapons have safeguards to prevent an unfired (possibly hung) round from returning back to the magazine?

[@zchen27]

Speaking of clearing duds in inaccessible guns, the Russians have a system where a pyrotechnic charge fires and drives a spike (and hot gas) into the dud cartridge to force it to fire. It is used in at least the GSh-301 autocannon if I recall.