Finetuners pro's and con's and how to take care of them...

Finetuners can make life easier when you are tuning, especially if you are a beginner.
Master violin maker and restorer Olaf Grawert talks about how and when to use finetuners, how to take care of them and... the pro's and con's.
Be fully informed when you buy your next instrument. Get Olaf's free 7 essentials when buying an instrument report here: olafgrawertviolinstudio.com/7...
00:00 Introduction
00:10 What do finetuners do?
02:20 Pros and cons
03:46 Fine tuning tailpeices
04:57 How to take care of finetuners
08:45 Conclusion
#myviolinmaker, #olafgrawertviolin
Website:
www.olafgrawertviolinstudio.com
Online Store:
olafgrawertviolinstudio.com/p...
Social:
/ olafgrawertviolinstudio
/ olafgrawertviolinstudi...
Olaf Grawert also features in some @TwoSetViolin videos

[@johnnyappleseed5029]

As the Dad of a beginner, your advice has been so valuable, Thank You so much Olaf. Also, we're determined to save for one of your instruments at some point in the future, knowing the character of the builder transfer directly to their craft.❤😊

[@kathyplaza9883]

Great explanation on fine tuners. Thanks! Can you do a video on geared peg tuners? I'd appreciate it.

[@amezcuaist]

I made a skeleton fiddle 9No scroll on this one ) and now I will add 4 single guitar tuners (very light ) instead of pegs.Naughty but a bit of fun . I took off the plastic roller sleeves to save carving the wood too much . When fitting strings normally the ball end needs to be bent with pliers to stop them flicking out of the tailpiece while tuning up . Some tailpieces are not cut well enough to get the strings in the holes .There must be a Huge Playbook to make violins as Difficult as Possible .

[@mendyviola]

I switched to a tailpiece with integrated fine tuners years ago (Wittner) and love it! No more struggling to tune when the weather changes.

[@joekagerer]

Great advice! I pulled my violin out of the closet after storing 14 years and actually broke my bridge because my pegs were slipping and I didn't pay attention to what was happening. I took it to my local violin shop and wanted 4 fine tuners. 1) I didn't want to change the 100 year old tailpiece 2) I like the mechanical look of the old chrome fine tuners. He recommended a Whittner for the exact same reasons. It was in my mind very inexpensive. I confirmed this with my brother who has 45 years as a musical instrument technician, and he fully agreed. I still have the original tailpiece but it will never go back on until I'm gone and the build my museum 😂😂😂 Thanks for your great advice I just wanted to chime in in case anyone is on the fence. My violin sounds awesome to me. My playing? Well that's another story...

[@helmutzzzz]

Again, an excellent video. I am a beginner and always find inspiration from your videos. Thanks.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

I'm commenting on this video in "real time". Yes, I always put on a new set of strings and pull on the strings over the fingerboard section so that they will settle in quicker. If you DO pull a little too much you can compensate by pushing on the string after the nut into the pegbox. You usually do that during a performance when you don't have much time to tune with the peg.

[@jcortese3300]

I have to admit, I have no clue why the violin seems to be deliberately kept in as unmanageable a condition as possible. It wouldn't be impossible to use some form of geared pegs; I know they have ones that look like normal wooden pegs. But there does seem to be a culture around violins that insist that it's still 1700.

[@michaelblaney4461]

Yes to me they seem to like being difficult , I'm not sure why more don't use the geared pegs . If I started violin ,viola or cello that's the first thing I would buy . I don't have to since basses have had geared tuners for centuries 😂

[@shipsahoy1793]

I agree. Also, fine tuners are no picnic either. I find it’s better to keep them only taught enough so that they don’t rattle, and the violin is mostly (if not all) tuned with the pegs. Tightening steel core or synthetic strings with the fine tuners distribute tension in a way that’s not optimal for managing the bridge health from my experience. If I ever buy a better instrument, the pegs are going to have to work very smoothly, as I’m not crazy about fine tuners. A tuned violin without fine tuners just may sound slightly better as well.

[@adamostrowski9819]

It's amazing how little development violins have had. Especially if you look at other instruments like wind instruments, guitars, pianos, and then you realize that violins in the more or less modern form were already there in like 1850s, if memory serves me well

[@jcortese3300]

@@adamostrowski9819 Yes. The body of the instrument is great as is in terms of amplification (although if I were to get one, I'd definitely get a CF one), but the absence of inlays and proper geared pegs just doesn't make any sense to me. Musical instruments are technology in the end, but violins have this mysticism associated with me that seems weird.

[@dataplatter]

Whittner also makes geared pegs with a fixed sleeve and a gear reduced rotating shaft. You can even trim the end.

[@nikoginter4018]

Can you give your oppinion on finetunig pegs?

[@mellissadalby1402]

I agreee with you Olaf. Coming from a guitar background, I heartily welcome the fine tuners! Those simple wooden pegs are so imprecise, especially for me. Also, if I fail to get the open strings tuned precisely, then I will not learn proper intonation when watching an electronic tuner while I practice. I never considered the effect of the added weight. I am grateful that a purpose-built fine tuner tailpiece is available in that case. Yes, when I find that my strings have gone flat a bit, I loosen the fine tuner, tighten the wooden peg, then re-adjust the fine tuner for the reason you pointed out, also to avoid losing adjustment range.

[@PavelNygryn]

I love fine tuners even on my guitar (with geared pegs and nut lock). The struggle with traditional pegs must be annoying for many newbies.

[@Redstagwsmnp]

I'm 70 years old and just bought my first Violin. Play guitar. But wanting learn a violin

[@rossthefiddler5890]

The part I think that is also very important is the string length between bridge & tailpiece. Fitting four standard Wittner string adjusters to an ebony or other wood tailpiece adds weight, but also somewhat shortens the string length between string adjuster & bridge & that will have a dampening effect & why I will always recommend a tailpiece with built in adjusters. Using that "damaging" Roth style mute is also a bad idea as it also dampens considerably when in a parked position, as well as destroying the strings. I have noticed also that having too light a tailpiece can be detrimental in that the vibrations from one string transfers to the other strings causing the others to vibrate (also happens at the bridge) & the resulting sound can have too many overtones causing a less clear sounding instrument. This is where using an alloy Wittner tailpiece (with built in adjusters) can be better so there is some dampening at the tailpiece & with sufficiently long string length to the bridge (by making sure the tailpiece gut, threaded nylon etc is not longer than it needs to be), results in a clearer output & not muddied with excessive overtones. The other reason to have a tailpiece with built in adjusters is it makes it quick & easy for a quick tweak to adjust a string that has gone out a little when playing, particularly in situations like playing in an orchestra or other live playing situations. It's time for those caught up with tradition (& snobbery) to get over it & take advantage of advancements such as these tailpieces which is still useful for any string type. I will say that the ebony (or boxwood etc) tailpiece with built in adjusters with one style I have (in stock for many years) is very difficult to get the string ball through & can be damaging to the string if threading the whole string through, but the one you have shown looks much better. Also, tuning the pegs periodically during changes in humidity is a good idea so the pegs don't jam in damp conditions or let go in dry & is the time to wind out the string adjuster screws too. BTW, I have been using a little synthetic grease doped with PTFE (teflon) on the screws as it gives a smoothing feel & is suitable at high temperatures so won't spread like Vaseline grease. The one I have is actually made for bike chains, but other similar products may be made for camera gear (dampening grease for lenses & tripod panning heads etc).

[@NotMyActualName_]

Suggestion/requet for a future video. What pieces of a violin's construction make the biggest difference in sound? I understand how using a single piece vs two piece back could affect resonance, obviously the type and quality of materials, but what aspects of the workmanship affect the sound and how? What do different makers change in their builds? Slightly different dimenisions? Thicknesses? Can you predict/control how your violin sounds when you plan it out?

[@92keys524]

Wonderful and informative video, as usual. Thank you, Olaf!!!

[@andreferland2726]

Love these videos. Can you also talk about the different kinds of mutes?

[@johnstitt2615]

I looked at an old video and how you use Hyde glue. For guitar neck repairs it works well.

[@rohwermusicstudios]

How much does the reason for not using 4 fine tuners attached to the tailpiece have to do with string afterlength? I thought it was the main reason, but the weight makes so much sense too! You might have seen a recent article in The Strad about innovative cello tailpieces: pretty fascinating.

[@bobbiecat7139]

Thank you Olaf 🙂

[@harrietg1248]

Yet another super interesting video. All those questions I didn’t even think to ask , answered so clearly. Thank you so much.

[@exb1]

Excellent!

[@az-bp7ns]

I just bought myself a new Violine. It is a new one.. It has one fine tuner on the e. The strings are still settling. And I can not bow and turn the pegs but I manage to tune it.. The Violine I used before came with 4 fine tuners. I guess I will get used to it. It takes me a couple of minutes to tune it. And I love my new Violine. It sounds so much nicer.. Open and clear and not muffled and I got also a carbon bow with the Violine and all of a sudden the unvokuntarily bouncing bow is gone. I am a beginner, obviously with too much money.. 😅 But to make the switch was worth it. Really worth it

[@gailrivas762]

Thank you Olaf! I learn so much more than I think I will with every video.

[@justthetruth870]

Hi Olaf, I'm reasonably new to your channel and am really enjoying your content. I recently viewed a 2 part video entitled "Violin Disaster - Can It Be Fixed" and was very impressed with the restoration you made to this instrument. Having seen those videos it reminded me of a Violin/Fiddle restoration series I watched by an American luthier by the name of Jerry Rosa. His KZbin channel goes by the name of "Rosa String Works" and this restoration is titled "433 RSW Chocolate, A Bittersweet Restoration. It can only be described as "EPIC". He received this instrument in numerous pieces (large to extremely small) and in his own way managed to put this violin back together. All I can say about him is that he is "unique" and in his fumbling and mumbling ways, gets the job done. If you get the time (there are several hours of video) I would recommend a look at this series firstly to see the gut wrenching destruction that this instrument received and to view the final result. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on his work. Cheers, Mark

[@MichaelSuperbacker]

Great video! Thank you Olaf!

[@travisfimmel6143]

thank you so much

[@toniw8142]

Danke für deine Videos. Und schöne Grüße aus Deutschland.

[@a.g.5590]

Great advice. I only have one fine tuner on my e-string. I need to unsrew it and lubricate it. I have never done that before 😅

[@Delphini_Zucchini]

I just bought a new viola that’s fine tuners are a little stiff. Thanks for the video - very helpful!

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

0:49 you got it spot on! Maybe a fluke? Well-fitted pegs will work wonderfully and take off the: "bulk that is 'fine-tuners' " :)

[@BensWorkshop]

Good tips on fine tuners, particularly with regards to weight.

[@QuestionMan]

New viewer, new subscriber. Bowed instruments have always seemed so magical to me. Superficially, they seem like guitars that you play differently. But, no! They are so fiddly. 😉 I'm glad to have found your channel and love the educational content here. In a world of "instant experts" it's a relief to find truly knowledgeable people. (I was curious about finetuners, btw. So thanks!)

[@wakingtheworld]

Yet another excellent vid, Olaf.... Yes, one can keep turning those fine tuners but there's comes a point when you have to release the string slightly and tune with the peg... Didn't know about checking the bridge or lubricating the tuners though. ALWAYS summat to learn from your videos, Olaf.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

Even a great violist who's an idol of mine (Amihai Grosz) uses fine tuners on both the C and A string. No harm in that!

[@eiralinnea]

I'm a beginner and I find it almost impossible to tune accurately with the pegs, so when fixing the position of the fine tuners, I figured I'd errr on the sharp side and tune the strings up using pegs, so I can tune them down with the fine tuners, and that way returning their position higher. I figured a half tone momentary sharpness doesn't hurt the violin too bad.

[@gentsracer1845]

I've always had finetuners on my violin, to the extent that I'm incapable to tune by ear with the pegs, I've never learnt the gesture in over 40 years...😮 My teacher had me play with steel strings and thus four metal finetuners probably to make life easier to a certain extent (himself, he played with aThomastik tailpiece with integrated tuners) and it's only pretty late that I "discovered" the existence of synthetic strings, and the fact that these work with finetuners just "fine". I switched to a Wittner tailpiece a few years ago, when the gut on my old tailpiece nearly broke... might change for a Thomastik as they look nicer I think.

[@redddddrum]

Thanks Olaf for this vidéo, i was wondering what were your thoughts about composite fine Tuning pegs ? I think they offer a good midpoint between fine tail tuners and pegs .

[@aisyitme]

Hello Mr. Olaf, may I know the reason why a violin's neck may bend which causes the fingerboard to detach from the neck? Thank you very much. ❤

[@LC-th1hy]

I like your humor on the pegs seem to be superior over fine tuners only to be just play musically fine tuners or not. ^o^ Thank you for the information on the fine tuner being too wedged inside. No damage underneath the tailpiece before it doesn't sound nice anymore. Does the type of tailpiece can make a difference for making violins? Your craft and knowledge holds history of teaching the parts of violins! So fun learning!

[@GregoryGlessnerViolin]

I strongly prefer integrated fine tuner tailpieces. Don't put fine tuners on a regular tailpiece. Fine tuners: Save wear on the pegbox Help to keep bridges from warping Give the ability to make little adjustments on the fly

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

7:18 "don't use oil" - I've actually found that 'Baby Oil' works just fine. It lasts about a year on my finer tuners which are Wittners.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

Hahhaha@@adriaan2618

[@ssb73q]

Hi Olaf, good video. My solution to fine tuners is to get rid of them. I put either Wittner or Perfection geared pegs on all my violins, violas, and cello that allows easy tuning. IMO all student level violins should come with geared pegs. Violin instructors will appreciate not needing to take lesson time tuning a student's violin. A video discussing the use of harp tailpieces would be interesting.

[@paganina2330]

Do they work great? I’m always wondering about them but don’t dare to try. Bought the Teller Tailpiece (quite expensive) for one of my violins because a luthier recommended it, but now my violin sound like a shoe box…

[@seankayll9017]

I use the Wittner fine tuner pegs on all four strings. Expensive but worth it.

[@AnderssonHenning]

Nice video Olaf! Have you tried the geared violin pegs?

[@entilzha]

I ended up going halfway with 2 fine tuners on A and E. I found while I could tune the A with peg, it was pretty annoying sometimes and having the fine tuner has been nice. The D/G are still easy to tune with pegs, but I think maybe the A has enough tension to make it more difficult.

[@donnarn2727]

I only have a fine tuner on my E-string for my primary violin and one on my A-string for my primary viola. Does make it harder to get in tune, but it is possible without the fine tuners. A violin I got at an estate sale does have all four fine tuners and the previous owner was a professional studio violinist (played for Murder She Wrote among others).

[@shawnchristopherwhite3271]

I dont use fine tuners at all. I always found that they interfered with the tuning (yes, I said interfered). When I tune up, my strings keep in tune for hours - not when I used fine tuners on the E. Also, the short part of the strings (after the bridge) are tuned to D, E , A, B - exactly two octaves and a fifth above the open string - it creates a very powerful resonance in my violin, and my tuning of the open strings is done very quickly and perfectly. The Tartini tones are just wonderful with this setup.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

P.S. Olaf, I hope your eye is doing better. Please don't exhaust yourself by making all these videos "back-to-back"! Rest up if you need to! All the best from me, Liam, in Perth WA.

[@liamnevilleviolist1809]

Extra question: just wondering if you ever met the luthier Arthur Robinson who travelled all around Australia (as well as internationally, working with Charles Beare and Peter Biddulph?)

[@Dansback21]

I’ve played for 25 years and no one has ever mentioned to lubricate the fine tuner. And I didn’t know graphite was one! Need to spend more time with repair guys it’s seems 😂

[@williamkauffman5745]

I do not use any fine turners; I use synthetic stings-Evah Pirastro Gold, and the tone of the violin sounds better to me without the fine tuners

[@sara505sings]

I agree. It's subtle, but yes, the fine tuners do pick up a frequency. Even worse is the metal tailpiece with built in tuners.

[@shawnchristopherwhite3271]

I dont use fine tuners at all either. I always found that they interfered with the tuning (yes, I said interfered). When I tune up, my strings keep in tune for hours - not when I used fine tuners on the E. Also, the short part of the strings (after the bridge) are tuned to D, E , A, B - exactly two octaves and a fifth above the open string - it creates a very powerful resonance in my violin, and my tuning of the open strings is done very quickly and perfectly. The Tartini tones are just wonderful with this setup.

[@martinfrancis3406]

Can you lubricate fine tuners that are screwed directly into the tailpiece ,without a guiding metal screw on top of the tailpiece? Can you totally remove the tuner without ruining it?

[@pedromartinazzo5036]

Olaf I always thought that (more mass = more sustain) because all guitars with tremolo bridges have huge heavy brass blocks underneath the bridge screwed on to it so the guitar sustains notes better but why doesnt this apply for violins?

[@CarolineTheFiddler]

So this is where I take my violin after I baroque it?

[@zapa1pnt]

Olaf, what can you tell me, about the "saddle" (? white strip) on the tail piece? The one shown in this video seems to be much taller than what i have previously seen (not to say I have seen a lot). Does it seem that way, to you? It also appears to be a bit rough, at the bass end @5:31. Thank you. 😁✌🖖

[@ggccdde3743]

May I ask: what sounds would be when putting violin strings on 14 inches viola?

[@niallchurch2679]

What about geared tuning pegs instead?

[@trabouliste1037]

Are there no Pegheads or Wittner Feinstimmwirbel for violins?

[@syntaxlost9239]

Do you have any opinions on planetary geared pegs?

[@GarthShoemaker]

I've seen pegs with integral mechanisms to enable fine tuning. Your thoughts? Will they fit in standard peg holes? I'd like to try them but won't ream out my old instrument to accommodate them.

[@krimsworld]

I have a question - you mentioned that the Teller tailpiece might be a bit too light? What is the disadvantage of a tailpiece that is too light?

[@istvanbarcsanits8566]

Szia! 😀 Én a wittner finomhangolós kulcsokat használom. Sokkal könnyebb hangolni vele.

[@bily4566]

You can tune the wood can you

[@leonscottkennedyre4]

I'm looking to get some cheaper gut strings, do you have any that you would recommend?

[@reinhardkoster7863]

Hallo Olaf, what do you think about fine-tuning pegs with planetary gear inside the peg head? It depends on your answer whether I'll buy a set or not. By the way, you cannot imagine how much I love and appreciate your work and videos, THANK YOU!!! Liebe Grüße und gute Wünsche aus Bochum, Old Germany

[@AskOlaftheViolinmaker]

The planetary pegs work well... I use the Wittner ones... It's a personal choice... They're not as pretty as some pegs, but then the fine-tuning tailpiece is not as pretty as some either...

[@reinhardkoster7863]

Thank's so much for your fast and valuable response! Wishing you a great day!

[@mezzopiano3119]

I've read that Knilling Perfection planetary pegs have wooden heads, so they look nicer than Wittner's. To me, at least.

[@reinhardkoster7863]

@@mezzopiano3119 - Thanks for the hint

[@gregorybolin4672]

Can or should you store a violin tuned ?

[@becomethesea]

Taking the liberty to answer this one. I always heard to store a violin with the strings slightly tuned down.

[@terrystaggs2537]

Olaf I am having hard time with my d string going out of tune pegs don't move bought cheaper strings

[@clarabisson7299]

Olaf, I have a question is it possible to have your pegs in the wrong place? I took mine out to clean dust from inside the peg box and don't know what order they originally went in. also how important is it to fix the mark left by a fine tuner on the face plate, that also happened to me and I feel so foolish for letting it happen. last one, is the button supposed to be glued as mine isn't and can be taken out with the strings off thank you for your time, knowledge, and videos - Clara

[@becomethesea]

Hi Clara, taking the liberty to answer this one. With the violin facing you, the string order, from lowest peg in the pegbox to highest: G (left most), E (right most), D (second to left), A (highest and second to right). Perhaps that will help you. Sidenote, if all the strings are off, your sound post may have fallen and will need to be righted and readjusted.

[@clarabisson7299]

@@becomethesea I was wondering about the pegs themselves. They seem to be different lengths so I thought they might be specific to a spot in the peg box. I'm having a really hard time tuning with pegs. I think my sound post is alright, I don't hear rattle and it looks to be in the right spot. Thank you for taking the time to answer

[@becomethesea]

@@clarabisson7299 Ahh, yes I understand now about the pegs themselves. The lower ones could be slightly longer but it depends on your instrument. The most important thing is that they feel snug in the peg box without getting stuck. You're welcome! I teach violin and have thought often of becoming a luthier myself.

[@becomethesea]

I also just remembered that the little hole for your strings in the pegs should also be a hint as to which one belongs to which string. They should be generally positioned so that the string will be relatively straight once coiled and set over the nut of the fingerboard.

[@amezcuaist]

I wonder if you work on tiny 1/8th size violins . Learning a violin is like learning a language. Start at ten and you are already way behind . Tiny violins are the future of music . Working on them is good for your /my skill set development .

[@jameschristiansson3137]

Titanium fine tuner?

[@ssb73q]

Hi James, the titanium tailpiece works great, but pretty expensive.

[@BrunodeSouzaLino]

It's a bit of a shame that violin manufacturers still trying to become the next Stradivarius or Guarnieri haven't moved in and embraced technology like other instruments have. On other instruments, you can get tuning pegs with very high ratios, like the Steinberger gearless tuner, which has a 40:1 ratio.

[@randolphfriend8260]

🩷

[@mikhail6289]

jeez why not use metal tuners on headstuck instead this wooden ancent sticks, like on guitars or contrabass?

[@SantaWithaViolin]

The secret to not use the finetuners is to bring the violin periodically to a good luthier (like Olaf) for maintenance. At least once a year for maintenance. Everything including sound post, pegs, etc will work better.

[@ashleysmith3106]

Why do modern violins simply use tuners in the head like guitars ?

[@becomethesea]

Some modern violins do. I have a 5 string carbonfiber instrument by Glasser NY that has two-piece geared pegs. Their mechanism isn't perfect, though. Sometimes, I have to re-wind the inner tuner if it goes loose. I've seen actual gears/"machine heads" installed on a fiddle before in a specialty shop but that instrument had a very unique tone. It was not at all something that a classical player would want. The conductor of an orchestra might even fire or seriously reprimand someone who came in with an instrument like that! It was also a bit top heavy because of the extra weight at the peg box. Gorgeous instrument, though.