Asmongold Reacts to Final Fantasy 14͏͏ vs WoW Raiding | by WillYum_PLAYS

[@micahpbt9638]

In FFXIV I went into Binding Coils all the way to Twintania with party finder, and only 1 person knew the fights. We wiped for 3 hours straight and no one left. Even though we dont even all speak the same language, everyone stayed in and when we finally beat it, it was one of the best experiences in my MMO journey. Then we all /gpose and took screenshot. I honestly cannot name another MMO that is able to give me something remotely similar.

[@wobblysauce]

That learning journey... is a great feeling.

[@Successful__Businessman]

I had similar experience in destiny 2 doing vault of glass raid. Half the people knew nothing and after 2 hrs we beat it.

[@Luqaza]

Cry more

[@kingdavey90]

That's a wonderful feeling

[@MootPotato]

There is only ONE that i can think of with a similar community. City of Heroes But you're right, those are some of the best experiences!

[@Kalkathes1]

Just to clarify to anyone confused. The fights being shown on screen are the current normal raid. They are not meant to be hard, they are to gear up for the savage versions released next patch. The extreme trials he is talking about, he cannot show as they contain MAJOR story spoilers. This is why the fights look super easy, despite him saying you may die alot.

[@jaeusa160]

And yet these very casual approachable difficulties are allowed to kill players, repeatedly and ruthlessly, for effing up. Because the bresses and sparse dps checks on lower difficulties let persistent players overcome. And on higher difficulties, those dps or mechanic checks will just wipe you outright. You get fights with actual expectations to learn and get good at all difficulties, while ALSO giving FUN challenge to more casual players. Turns out you can build for casual AND hardcore without such a huge split.

[@XXLPIakat]

The first time I did a msq trial in EW, the party died like 3 times before we figured out what to do. And the EX version was double the amount of attempts. xD

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@XXLPIakat never had issues with normal trials as far as wiping goes. Sure people are dying a lot, but deaths are not punishing at all, and thats the big difference with the extremes and trials. In trials even with 10 deaths, its no biggy.. they will just get ressed and the boss will still die, just slower. In extreme, you're gonna get fucked with half the deaths. It's a lot more punishing.

[@unixtreme]

To be fair the extremes were super easy as well...

[@Kalkathes1]

@@unixtreme depends on your skill level. If you raid savage and ultimate, then yes EX is easy. When you just do dungeon, normal raid and story content it is a step up.

[@willyum_plays7750]

Hey! I know you probably wont see this Asmon, but regardless, I wanted to say I am humbled and surprised and shocked that you watched and reacted to the video I put up! I've seen so many of your reactions before and never thought I'd be one of them! I hope the holidays are treating you okay, looking forward to seeing you play FFXIV again in the future!

[@decilence6184]

It's the holiday's miracle ny guy.

[@ghaffir]

I enjoyed your video very much.

[@treasurehunter3369]

Congrats my guy

[@adnadnan3529]

You go ma guy keep up the good content 😁

[@bboyblock3030]

It's you!! Good video :)

[@Phynastor]

In FFXIV it's not against the rules to criticize or tell someone they're doing something wrong if you're civil. It is against the rules to tell them they're trash and that they should kill themselves. It's really not that hard to understand.

[@sweet5694]

😂 what’s the difference im from warcraft!

[@blushingralseiuwu2222]

@@sweet5694 the difference is, FF have functional report and GM function, WoW doesn't.

[@sshakababy]

And as is evident from the 1st reply to your comment, most wow players don't understand that concept. They can't tell the difference between explaining something rationally and being hostile because they only know hostile and rude.

[@tidusjecht8978]

@@masterpain7742 found the wow andy

[@MrHydra12]

@@sshakababy lol neither community does don’t get it twisted. And what’s hilarious is it’s always the first ones to type about others performance that are factually doing shitty on runs. It’s a game, you don’t win all the time, no need to cry.

[@michaelb3576]

Man Zack taking a hard stance right away against people being negative over the guy’s speech is … chef’s kiss.

[@Muftaay]

They're not making fun of his voice directly though, it's rather questioning the acting, like just talk normally why you gotta put on this fake excitement cmonbruh

[@xD1RTYx]

I mean if you spend anytime on his chat he is like this all the time, quite literally says this during almost every react especially if it's a female.

[@FighterNP]

@@Muftaay It reminds me those fake ass excitements from those top 10 videos, so I personally hate this kind of voice.

[@extinctbaryonyx]

​@@Muftaay You werent reading his chat unedited. They're all like "Gay voice" "Cringe" "Basically average FF enjoyer type of voice" "Sigma male voice" "SJW Voice" you get the point right? SO i applauded zack for taking a stance. This reminds me when they started talking shit about Zepla (when he reacted to her video), and asmon quickly shut those manchildren down. It was glorious.

[@erikhendrickson59]

@@FighterNP It's not nearly that bad.

[@LegendConsole]

There is a difference between being negative and giving criticism. You can give advice to others, telling them what they are doing wrong and how to do better without being negative. Not once have I been banned or even given a talking to for giving advice. Honestly I think most people who complain about the banning system for FFXIV, are the ones who are or would consistently break those rules.

[@cuterpooter]

Generally my experience has been that the "I'm just being brutally honest" folks are the most bewildered and butt-hurt at the reactions they get. Because they somehow can't discern the vast chasm between "here's a suggestion, we were all new once so we understand the struggle, hope this info helps" and "condescending snarky (technically correct) statement delivered in the most abrasive, off-putting way"

[@blushingralseiuwu2222]

Yeah, its never banable to point out mistake, just don't be a dick about it. Also, FF have functional GM, they can judge whether what you doing is dickish or not, its not just lots of report = ban. Those who complaint are probably "I just got banned for pointing out mistske! WTF!" But they dismissed that they're being an ass about it.

[@DBriggs304]

Truth. It's usually the ones mad that they can't be an absolute jerk.

[@TD71859]

I've seen plenty of rude comments in ff14 over my 8 years, its just that everyone will ignore you for it. The only people that would actually get banned are either full on abusive, using certain words, or using info from outside tools to beat up on someone. You'll never get banned for just being a dick, only for taking it to the point of harassment.

[@bannedmann4469]

What all of you who parrot this point dont understand, is that where the line is drawn is different for a lot of people.

[@Hanketsu]

In regards to Greeding stuff, thankfully most Raid and Tomestone gear is labeled as Unique so you only get one. Also the new raid gear is locked to one Token Per Circle per week, so you can get 4 all together. Thanks to that, people tend to only roll on what they need to finish off their sets.

[@sl5945]

He meant greeding as in playing greedily (not doing mechanics in order to increase uptime and dying as a result), not in terms of loot

[@nroe1337]

greeding refers to playing risky/dangerous in order to potentially achieve a higher parse on warcraft logs etc.

[@AtomicBoo]

@@nroe1337 he prob meant roll greed on gear, greeding in lol also means doing risky plays like diving the tower or doing 1v2

[@Hanketsu]

What I've learned from the replies is that Greed means different things to different players, but it all boils down to stop being a dick in one way or another lol =). Remember a slow clear is better than a fast fail!

[@kloudray]

For Practice groups, people usually specify if it's a blind prog or you're expected to watch a guide so you can get into a group of people with similar mentality

[@melb3mel]

which would be nice if people would actually read descriptions and actually go in blind. I put a pf for blind progging the second ex trial and there was someone that already cleared and proceeded to explain the basic mechanics for phase 1. then that person left before phase 2 and the replacement also completely ignored the blind tag and proceeded to explain everything completely wrong and frustrate us to the point of just looking up a guide anyways.

[@kloudray]

@@melb3mel Unfortunately, it is not possible to completely avoid negative interactions when dealing with random people. And I'm not gonna pretend it is super rare in party finder, people be people after all. One of the possible solutions to the exact issue you had is to additionally clarify with everyone who joins the party that they joined a blind prog run and are not expected to teach you the fight. In my experience, there are far less actually malicious people than those who just didn't read and have wrong expectations.

[@jessjohnson1569]

@@melb3mel Joining practice/blind groups are my favorite activity after clearing and gearing up. Not because I go in and say "this is how you do it" but because I like to be there as a "I'm a resource that you do not have to use." Joined a practice group for the second Ex, only person out of the 8 to clear it, and the only time I explained stuff was when they asked. The only times we had to recruit new players was when those who left did so because they had prior engagements, and after six hours they got the clear. Whenever we hit a new mechanic, they'd talk about it, and when they did ask me for advice I'd also go, "you want a mechanics explanation or PF strats?" My advice to anyone who does what I like to do...give the power to those practicing to decide what you tell them. Wanting to know how the mechanic works is faaaar different than being told the strat.

[@nateatavares4268]

Y'know, Asmon, in my experience with FF's community guidelines, it's not usually what you say that gets you in trouble, but how you say it. I've had more times than I can count where I've made mistakes repeatedly or seen someone else get called out for dicking around (like when a tank cleaves the party with a tankbuster or a DPS keeps messing up mechanics and causing problems for others). The difference, in my experience, is that people are more likely to get in trouble when they turn hostile and start disrespecting or attacking the person behind the character. Personally, I don't have a problem when someone asks me to make some adjustments or points out that I'm doing something wrong... it's when people become more interested in attacking my person that it becomes a problem. That's just uncalled for. Telling someone that they need to do X instead of Y is fine. But telling them they suck or they should quit or calling them names isn't constructive at all. It's harassment. All it does is discourage people from playing the game, and if they don't play, they can't get better, and if they don't get better, they'll keep making the same mistakes. And if people stop playing the game, it becomes a cess pit of all the garbage people that kept pushing the decent folks away. Usually, offering some advice or a refresher on mechanics goes a long way, and people tend to appreciate when someone is trying to help build them up more than they do when someone is being a toxic piece of crap that just wants to put others down for making mistakes. And the thing about mistakes is that everyone makes them. It's not worth the energy to get all bent out of shape about it. You try to course correct and keep progging. If that isn't happening because someone is being a problem player/isn't trying to improve/doesn't care, then kick them and pick up the raid with a new party member. I think a big part of this is managing expectations more than anything, like how you mentioned that it's disrespectful to the raid to show up and not know what you're doing when everyone else has already gone and done their homework. I agree with you. FF's party finder is usually pretty good about this, with the requirements you can set on the party settings (though you sometimes get people in a farm party that only cleared it once. A month ago. And they haven't touched the game since.) But more generally, you never know what's going on with that other person. Maybe they've had a rough day. Maybe they're wrestling with some hard shit. You never know. Sometimes I come home from a hard day of work and I just want to chill and raid. Does it piss me off when bozo the clown wipes the raid because he cleaved both healers and nobody else can revive? Sure does. But I'd rather meet them where they're at, try to help them get situated, and help someone else be a better player. Would it be "easier" to get pissy about it and throw a fit? Sure. But it wouldn't make me feel better to get into a shouting match with another player and immediately stoop to their level. At that point, the party doesn't have 1 problem player, it has 2. But that's just my 2 cents. I want to be the best player I can be, but in a COOPERATIVE game, that means I have to help the TEAM move forward if I want any reward or progress... and a team is only a strong as its weakest raider.

[@francisfuzzynips902]

Can we get a TLDR?

[@Exxy6965]

@@francisfuzzynips902 Basically, you can give advice to people without being a dick about it, and you'll be fine. The perception that you can't say anything to people who fail is completely wrong.

[@Fedefio]

@@francisfuzzynips902 thank you

[@nateatavares4268]

@@francisfuzzynips902 TL;DR - It's okay to point out when someone fucks up, just don't be a dick about it. Give people the benefit of the doubt and the chance to improve. If they're a piece of shit or refuse to learn, kick/report them. The game has tools (specifically in Party Finder) to help set proper expectations and we should all be paying attention to what we are signing up for when we join a Party Finder group.

[@francisfuzzynips902]

@@nateatavares4268 Cheers, makes sense

[@Phr34d0m]

Even when playing older Duties in FF14, as a relative newcomer to the MMO, it's still a learning curve. The first time I played the Morbol duty, for example, I was the only 1st-timer so I had no idea about eating the Morbol fruits to remove the stacking poison debuff. I died three times on the Duty, though my party was very forgiving and commiserated with my plight. Similarly, I joined a Duty for Shiva Extreme (my first extreme battle). My party was a mix of veterans and newcomers. Overall, we all wiped seven times before we found our groove and defeated Shiva. It was SO. MUCH. FUN. Even with losing, our party talked a lot, exchanged strategy ideas, and ultimately we won. God I loved that experience. EDIT: Worth noting that despite the multiple wipes, nobody dropped out and nobody was kicked - the party that started the Duty ended the Duty which IMO was a factor in our ultimately coming out on top. By our seventh attempt, we all tried to pose/emote just before becoming frozen at the midpoint (it was hilarious and added a note of levity). Also, I was one of the healers (White Mage). I'm nowhere near Endwalker content, but IMO for newcomers that join a Duty filled with veterans, it'll still be quite fresh - and I cannot wait!

[@rptrrwr]

I'm glad you're having fun with the game. I think it's because people have all been in the same position of being a new player, perhaps not having anyone that could give them help when they first started out and had to learn everything themselves. (I don't remember how my group finally found out how many stacks to get before eating the fruit for instance, it was everyone's first time in AV back in 2.0) I think there's also some satisfaction veteran players get from watching new players learn and complete the fight. I know I enjoy teaching someone the fight and sticking with them until they succeed.

[@sweet5694]

Wiping with your collective best efforts is the best thing about MMO’s. literal Rocky Balboa gaming philosophy, someone’s gonna make a guild out of that

[@dylangreen192]

Shiva was my first EX trial too, and the difficulty bump from normal to EX is no joke. Was a fun time.

[@specialnewb9821]

It's helpful that the game helps people set reasonable expectations before hand for their parties.

[@vbarreiro]

I have massive respect for Asmon for always immediately shutting down personal harassment to other content creators.

[@rptrrwr]

That honestly made me feel proud to have him as part of our community. And I was one of the people that were originally very nervous about having him play xiv, thinking that the toxicity of wow would follow. I'm am glad to say I was proven extremely wrong. :)

[@Dirty__Dan]

I agree, good for asmon, But Jesus this guys voice. Lol

[@iceman3317]

@@Valkaneer I sensed no sarcasm at all. And it was literally within 30 seconds when he started watching the video. Those people were doing the bashing, not the person talking. And every single thing he said about WoW is 100% true.

[@Poldovico]

@@Valkaneer I sensed no sarcasm at all, and while I haven't played wow, I do enjoy whittling down the boss's life in pretty much anything else. Whittling down the boss's life is what bossfights are about.

[@sweet5694]

@@rptrrwr /rainbowface

[@Shiirow]

the thing about the "infinite battle rezes" is that each takes a huge chunk of MP to cast and to hard cast them takes time you dont always have in the middle of the fight. sure there is swiftcast but thats for one cast, and if you need to rez multiple people, you will either need to leave them dead until swiftcast comes back up or hard cast a raise. on top of that, you get essentially an one minute or so rez sickness debuff that reduces your potency and can lead you to getting one shot again if you are not careful. its laughable when people think having as many battle rezes in a fight as you want will somehow make the fights cheap and easy. the fact the raid developers know you can battle rez at any time, they tune the fights around it being there. so you have harder hitting mechanics and more one shots than you would have if you had a limited number.

[@MrDmoe33]

Its 1000x better than most other systems though especially when youre not punished nearly as severely for dying. It doesnt trivialize fights by actually penalizing you but it doesnt add unnecessary hardship. Plus weakness ONLY reduces your dps by reducing your main stat , it doesnt do anything else. I highly doubt they tune the fights based on the amount of rezes you have and if anything its the opposite because there are DPS checks and mechanics requiring all people of the party and going down especially in a HM fight means a wipe.

[@Luqaza]

Still pssy with unlimited, go cry about it

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@Luqaza lmao ur crying cause u dont get rezzed

[@Luqaza]

@@skeletonwar4445 in fact i don’t raid at all, so invalid statement. Go cry about it with that easy game

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@Luqaza even if it actually was easier, it's more fun lmao cope, seethe, rage, whatever lol

[@sirdamned9272]

Endgame progression in FFXIV, for dummies (there were a ton of misconceptions in this video). - Extreme Trials & Normal Raids: Entry level / You get the gear required for these from MSQ & the new Tomestones / Used to farm higher iLvl gear - Savage Raids: NOT entry level / You must farm gear both from Normal Raids (capped) & Extreme Trials (uncapped) Just thought I'd clear that up, because there's a lot of misconceptions being peddled in this video. No, you can't just walk into Savage Raids at endgame with whatever is the latest/current MSQ set. And no, you can't just throw Poetics at a vendor in order to meet said requirements. In fact, you need to spend whatever the latest-expansion Tomestone currency is to even ensure you can get into Normals.

[@MrJesuisOMG]

Or craft / buy entry gear to Savage instead of farming all of that above, works too.

[@sirdamned9272]

​@@MrJesuisOMG True, but extremely expensive upon release, or extremely time consuming in the grand scheme if you level your own crafters/craft it yourself. Plus, the crafted set won't be optimal and will lead to hitting a wall for less skilled players.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@sirdamned9272 it's actually way easier than what u claim it to be lol.

[@MrEcoho]

@@sirdamned9272 crafted gear is actually pretty dam good, and seeing as savage raids are pretty much all skill to begin with the skill wall shouldnt be a factor as by the time you start looking to do savage you are already in the frame of mind that you need to be fairly skilled or ready to learn.

[@sirdamned9272]

@@akhsdenlew1861 I never said it was hard. I said end-game gearing progression exists. In the video, chat implies that it does not, and Asmon seems to be under the misconception that it doesn't/that you can just walk into Savage content after completing the MSQ, which is false. Progression and minimum item levels exist, and there's a process for obtaining gear to meet said requirements at end-game. I never commented on difficulty. Reading comprehension, my friend. Use it.

[@darkadia6520]

Still waiting on Asmongold to return and progress in FFXIV, that will be good content to watch

[@Morrowinder777]

He's been doing NM alexander in his second channel IIRC.

[@syelle9560]

@@Morrowinder777 and also Shadows of Mhach, but i'm not sure if the VOD is still up

[@Mewhywhy1]

He's coming back when Lost Ark releases to play that on his main channel.

[@darkadia6520]

@@Morrowinder777 I'm more interested in his reaction going through the MSQ but im glad he's still playing some kind of content in the game right now.

[@kingsaxon]

@@darkadia6520 he's mostly playing new world on his alt channel

[@luketfer]

Also if you look at the party finder for high end duties there are usually 2 groups, practice and duty completion. In FF14 your expected to run with a practice group until you feel you can get the mechanics down solidly and THEN go into the duty complete groups.

[@TheMackizar]

Ayup, that's what I did. Got my first clear on a Practice group, which was super satisfying -- then in the other ex I ran like 4 practice groups, felt like I had it down, ran with a completion group and got it first try. - working as intended

[@lajohnson8588]

this, even after you clear, it’s recommended to go for practice group until you get the grasp of the mechanic

[@Maroxad]

3 Tiers actually Practice (PF creator can state Blind/Or with Guide, also what mechanic or phase that needs practice) Duty Completion (For first Time Clear, Expect Mistakes, but you should at this point know what to do) Loot (You should consistantly do every Mechanic right)

[@Mrsuperdestroyer]

Hopefully it has gotten better now but when I did it, around 3 days after release, people didn't give a shit. Took me an entire day to clear ex2 jumping from clear party to clear party because people just joined them hoping to get carried to the clear without knowing the fight. Even the farm parties where complete chaos of people having no idea about what they were doing.

[@Mrsuperdestroyer]

@Kimi Timoskainen No the majority of these people had no idea about the mechanics, they clearly did NOT know the fight. I'm not sure why you are trying to say what kind of people I was encountering.

[@DJ_Treu]

13:50 - As a majority it feels the opposite for me. In FF14 people are teaching me without me even asking. In WoW (As a raid leader and as a Raider) i expected people who joined to know the boss we are currently on at least. If you dont know the next one so be it but dont sign up for something you dont know how to do is more a WoW thing than a FF thing in my experience.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

no, it's a "both" thing. It's just that in FFXIV, everything can be done even with that mentality, except the savages. And the vast majority of FFXIV players are okay with not doing the savages and just doing everything else. In WoW, there's more things that are really hard except the mythic raiding. Like high level keys and even heroic raiding is way harder than anything in FFXIV ( with the exception of savage raiding). So the thing is that even though it's a "both" mentality, u see it more often in wow cus there's simply way more challenging for casuals content to do. In FFXIV, that's just savage. Extremes are not that hard, it's 1 boss and u pretty much have to learn like what? 1 mechanic? In zordiark all u do is follow a mark, and in hadyleen you need to keep your eyes open during the wave phase. and that's all... definetly a lot easier than many things in wow. Not to mention that in FFXIV, there's just 8 people.. in wow raids, there's 20. it's a lot easier to fuck up something if 20 people need to do stuff correctly, than when 8 people need to do stuff correctly. that's also a really important factor.

[@KhronosTrigger]

@@akhsdenlew1861 Only thing hard about WoW is getting around the trash community. Everything else is quite easy~

[@akhsdenlew1861]

@@KhronosTrigger a biased opinion with not much truth in it. Objectivly speaking, you're incorrect.

[@KhronosTrigger]

@@akhsdenlew1861 Everything you’ve said in this thread and other threads is also biased, objectively all incorrect. Have fun~

[@MrCandyJackz]

@@akhsdenlew1861 heroic/mythic raiding in WoW is lol. too easy and just plain boring imo. the only thing ill give wow is the high level keys. other than that ultimate raiding in ff14 > wow mythic raiding.

[@beefyboi64]

So since I saw this getting mentioned a lot, I'd just like to clarify for the sake of those considering FFXIV that you won't get banned simply for not being a pushover. If someone makes a mistake in high end content it's fine to mention it. If general DPS needs to be higher it's okay to discuss that and figure out ways to improve as a group. It's also totally fine to boot someone who's outright ignored PF etiquette and joined the wrong group for what they're doing. People that complain about it "being so restrictive" are usually just upset that they can't impose their will and shitty attitude on others without getting reported. As long as you behave like a normal person and have a baseline level of respect for others you'll probably fine. Go have fun, don't overthink it.

[@zeldaau1017]

@@Pers0n97 normally this is done simply by knowing how a job is played and what steps can be taken to optimise the gameplay of it; it doesn't require a dps meter telling people what to do (since, when you're playing a job right, can't you feel when you're doing well/badly?) players can simply speak up if they messed up or if they want other people to adjust slightly if they feel like they can do a bit more damage here and there. no need for numbers lol ...and if it's a private group and they all feel using a dps meter is okay, they can just use one lmao...so many "3x 'loot' runs Totally Not A Parse :)" parties i have seen this past week or so

[@Cebertus]

@@Pers0n97 Like Zelda Au says, usually a player that doesnt play well knows it. And also its noticible for others when you dont play your job well, since the usuall flow of a job isnt there. In that case you just give advice to that person.

[@RayehZ]

@@Pers0n97 there is an in game indicative of which DPS are doing the most damage (tanks and healers dont work as well since the healing and tank stanc fuck up aggro in a diferent way) but for the DPS you can just look at the aggro bar and since they are pretty much just doing damage you can know which dps are performing the best, then with just a little game knowledge you know which jobs should be outdpsing which and its easy to see if someone is not playing correctly with that alone, no need to use ACT or anything external.

[@SilentaryXIV]

People seem to think that you get banned for the smallest things in FFXIV. That's just... not true. The difference between FFXIV and WoW is that the GMs actually look into and follow-up on reports. That's been my experience thus far at least.

[@Spiritwonder420]

It's true tho most players in ff14 are snowflakes I rather have the WoW player base

[@itgoeseverywheree1993]

Imagine that, the weeb game full of sexualized little girls has a ton of snowflakes itching to use the report button.

[@williampounds5191]

@@itgoeseverywheree1993 What sexualized little girls? Clearly neither you or that Nick guy have ever played XIV lol.

[@eduardobrunnergomes2895]

@@williampounds5191 wow players talking shit out of their ass, nothing new here

[@faultypremise]

Right? Like, I am always giving advice and correcting people on how to do things in dungeons. I'm a mentor, that's my job. I've never once been contacted by the GMs. Difference is in tone. I'm not even overly polite either. I just don't tell everyone to off themselves or uninstall after the first wipe.

[@im_calling_you_out]

FFXIV doesn’t ban people for “negativity.” They ban people for harassment and toxicity. You can absolutely criticize people without having to worry about getting banned. The game devs play this game and are aware of the nuance of player interactions and have made it clear they handle issues on a case-by-case basis, with certain guidelines in place. People will for real be out out here bullying other players and then be shocked when they get banned, thinking that they’ve done nothing wrong.

[@DawnAfternoon]

FFXIV ToS: "Don't be a dick." FFXIV ToS (years later): "Seriously, don't be a dick,"

[@mug281]

That’s fair. All it does it make people just straight up ghost bad players. Can’t get banned if you just ditch the player and not talk to them anymore lmao.

[@gameolver6013]

Your dps is too low for this group, why is that a thing you can’t say?

[@im_calling_you_out]

@@gameolver6013 Because that's considered to be a form of discrimination. It's basically the "you can't sit with us" of video games. You may care about parses, but unless you go out if your way to make your own group of people who you're sure are gonna parse the way you want then to, you have no right to complain. Top tier parses don't really matter in this game, and in the situations that it does matter, we have item level requirements for that.

[@mug281]

@@im_calling_you_out it’s not just about parses. If a player has low dps the person obviously needs to practice more or watch videos. You can expect to have your hand held in all content of an MMO.

[@Sanodi21]

The first time I ran P4, the party I was in wiped like 5 times since all but one person was new and blind, myself included. The one offered to teach us but we were stubborn and decided to prog it. No one left, we experimented, we learned, and we beat it. It was awesome

[@mikejakubik]

Im a lvl 74 DK in FF and in 100% honesty I have never seen anyone rage quit an instance - ppl would wait and explain the mechanics. Such a stark difference to WoW.

[@sweet5694]

I’ve seen exp-grinders who don’t quest get mad at not skipping dungeon cutscenes, and the same type of players refuse to ress or heal for fighting skippable trash.

[@alloounou6900]

When I was new to FF14 as a healer, everyone was super understanding. Tank would pull at a pace that either ensured party survival or provided the slight challenge I needed to improve. Meanwhile in WoW, I've been kicked for literally not knowing I had unlocked my rez skill.

[@martincuco2169]

Whats their to rage about? The mechanics are beyond easy LOL

[@mikejakubik]

@@martincuco2169 Some, not all. Tanks not knowing there is an aggro stance, dps standing in shit, not knowing certain boss mechanics (they are not all simple). People needing to take a bio break (in wow that's a kick and and replace unless you tank/heals - or the classic DPS pullers, in FF people respect other's roles and wait). Wow has become a competitive kids game/grind fest.

[@mikejakubik]

@@sweet5694 Did you stand in fire? Point is you will always find an asshole if you look long enough but generally speaking the vibe in FF is superb to WoW.

[@KLGChaos]

One of the things that drove me away from WoW permanently (other than playing FFXIV full time since 2.0) was taking weeks of Heroics just to get a 2H weapon for my Ret Paladin. I ran heroics daily and I just couldn't get a weapon to drop or the few times I did, I lost it to another player. The World Quests didn't give on for a few weeks. At that point, I just got tired of the RNG. Seeing someone get lucky and get a Titanforged weapon from their first Warfront and realizing that gearing up is more about luck than actual time played, I gave up on the game. Just wasn't worth it.

[@YahikoTendo]

The weekly restriction on loot in the first tier will be removed in 6.1 except the weapon for normal mode. The savage mode restriction will be removed sometime between 6.1 and 6.2 along with the weapon from the normal mode. The cycle repeats in 6.2 and 6.4.

[@vgpowerlord]

Just going to point out that while he's talking about EX trials, the video footage is for normal mode (aka casual) Pandaemonium raids. I assume this is because both EX trials are story spoilers and Pandaemonium Savage isn't out yet.

[@daedelous7094]

On the raid gear stuff. Another good thing is that when a Savage Raid tier drops, the crafting recipes get updated too and they come with new craftable gear that can be overmelded with materia and meet the ilvl for the raid. A good shout for raiders wanting to quickly get into the new tier and crafters to make bank.

[@Feast_]

If I join a Practice party, I'm going in with low expectations. We get as far as we get who cares because the party is for practice However if I'm in a clear party and see signs of somebody who hasn't practiced? That's when I get frustrated. You just lied to the other 7 people and expect a carry. It's also super obvious without ACT when somebody or some people aren't carrying their weight. Yesterday I had a Reaper who's DPS was below the tanks without dying a lot and a RDM who was constantly dying and it was aggravating. I've seen Enrage for this fight so much and still haven't cleared

[@gaultrenn]

just do more damage

[@minitaur8693]

One thing I disagree on is that he shouldn't feel pressured to skip the MSQ. The whole game is basically built around it. To skip it is to skip half the game's content.

[@ngwoo]

He wants to try new content on-release though. Probably doesn't want to wait until the next expansion.

[@connor2500]

He also shouldn’t be pressured to complete the MSQ either. I was pressured too when I first started and it ruined the first half of the game for me because of how I play MMO’s. Just gotta stop pressuring people in general, let them play how they want to play.

[@FuuuckOffff]

I found the MSQ boring, I skipped and don't regret it. It's my time, play the game how you want to play it.

[@wormfrend]

So these replies are your brain on skipping lol. In all seriousness yes it's your purchase and you can skip if you really want to, in the same way you're allowed to buy a ticket for a movie and go on your phone for the first 2 hours until the climax. You can do it, but don't be surprised if people judge you.

[@wormfrend]

@@BrodyCanuck Yikes, touchy touchy lol. I already said you can play however you want dude.

[@oceandark3044]

Okay, so since they didn't go over it, I feel like it'd be good to explain how Savage level raid gearing goes in FFXIV. It isn't out yet and these guys don't have the experience to talk about it in depth. And I will say, this is related to how gearing has worked in the previous raids (there is a slim but not nonexistent possibility that EW will have a different loot system). With that said... The raids come out in four legs, each of which is a single boss to fight. Each leg has an individual lockout on all the players if there is a clear which resets on Tuesdays. So if you clear a boss, it drops chests related to how many people in that raid had cleared that lockout period. If it's a fresh group and none of the eight people had cleared that week, the boss will drop two chests. If between 1-4 people have cleared that week in your group (as in, you had to pull a sub who'd already cleared that week because you had no option) you're not out all the drop gear, you still get one chest. And finally, regardless of chests (and if more than half your raid had previously cleared, you will get no chests) everyone gets one locked out "page", an item related to just that raid leg. Each chest on the first leg drops two coffers which are class-nonspecific gear spawners for the right side. For example, it may drop a ring coffer, and if you get that coffer and right click it, you will receive that raid's ring as specified by the class you opened it on (i.e. opening that coffer on a black mage gives you that raid tier's casting ring, while opening it on a tank gives you that raid tier's fending ring, etc.). You also get that first leg's page. Four pages will allow you to 'purchase' a piece of that raid tier's right side gear (so if you clear every week, you can pick up a piece of right side gear of your choice after four weeks). The second leg of the raid only drops one coffer per chest, but those coffers drop hand, foot, and head pieces. It also drops pages, though you will need six pages (that is, six weekly clears) to buy a piece of that gear. In addition, leg two begins to also drop "dustings", which will upgrade a piece of the gear you can purchase with tomestones to raid item level (but it will almost certainly have different substats, more on that later). It also drops the item you purchase with the normal mode lockout items to get the tomestone weapon (which might save you a bit of time, though you still need the tokens). The third leg is quite like the second. It drops coffers with the same loot as the second leg, but one of the coffers will give you a pants coffer (which takes eight pages, if you're forced to use pages). It also drops a "thread" which allows you to upgrade tomestone left side gear to raid item level and an "ester" which allows you to upgrade tomestone weapons to near-raid item level. Finally, the final leg. It drops a coffer for a chestpiece, a coffer for a weapon, a weapon without a coffer (in this case, an entirely random weapon from the coffer's list), a mount, the minion (generally also available in the normal mode) and has the chance to drop orchestrion rolls. Okay, so, how do you gear? You need to get a good best-in-slot (BiS) list. That list will be optimized for endgame and will tell you what combination of upgraded tomestone gear and raid drops give you the optimal substats. The raid weapon will always be the best weapon, but all your other gear will change depending on substat. The best practice is to use your tomestones to buy the gear you will eventually upgrade for your BiS first with your weekly tomestone cap, and allocate the coffers to cover your needs. You want to use tomestones to buy the biggest bits of gear possible first (i.e., you want to save up to buy the chest, legs, then rest of the left side first, since that gives you the best bang for your stat bucks) since you'll be probably acquiring right side raid bits first. Eventually, the 24 man raid will come out. This will drop a weekly token good to upgrade a piece of your tomestone gear to raid level (a dusting and thread at first, and later they'll release the ester). They will also make these items available through the hunt system, so if you roll with the A-rank train, you'll be able to get the upgrade tokens. And, eventually, the savage tier will "unlock" and every clear will always drop a full two-chest loot list without lockouts. This is a good while after the 24 man drops. TL;DR: every leg of the raid has a lockout, it's best to run it with as few locked out folks as possible, use your BiS list to determine whether you should try to take a loot coffer, you can buy with pages what you don't get a coffer for eventually, anything you don't need the coffer item for you buy with tomestones and use the dropped upgrade tokens. Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

[@Valefolken]

In terms of coming into a fight with prior knowledge, that is only because you have done 5+ year old raid content that 85% of the playerbase knows already. In WoW, you simply did not do raid content unless it was current expansion. You didn't go into Gruul's Lair in retail WoW, you didn't go into Sunwell, you didn't go into Icecrown. As soon as the next expansion came out, the previous expansion's raids ceased to exist. In FF, every single raid is still run by all of the players all of the time because of roulettes and alts. In final fantasy current content, you will find people much, much more forgiving about being blind than WoW. In fact right at this moment there are PF groups that say "blind, prog, just have fun and learn together, be kind" for extreme trials. It's the most wholesome fucking thing ever in an MMO. Also this guy was wrong, gear progression is not horizontal at all, and you absolutely do replace gear often every patch. It's just faster and more fun to do so. It also doesn't lock raids behind world quests and nazjatar questline type crap.

[@nunyabidness8762]

I was thrilled to play, for the first time, an expansion, doing dungeons and raids where no one knew what to do yet. I never had that opportunity until Endwalker to experience that. Working it out, figuring out the mechanics, and doing it. Not to mention, not having ANY dungeon guides to fall back on if I couldn't get it. Loved that.

[@cestunhareng]

I did all the Pandemonium raids in a row. It's really impressive to see how much you can learn by trying and dying extremly often in a short amount of time. You see the health of the boss getting lower and lower and before you realise it (3-4 hours) you've passed all of them.

[@TheAntonio6579]

??? Wdym. I did all the bosses except the hippo on the second try, extremely easy

[@joem3082]

Normal raids are usually cleared in 1 or 2 tries max dude...

[@cestunhareng]

@@TheAntonio6579 I'm including the queue (and I'm a dps playing at unreasonable hours). The hippo was by far the hardest but still, only a few of the people I've played with had the time to learn the mechanics.

[@cestunhareng]

@@joem3082 only a few of the people I've played with had the time to learn the mechanics, it was just soon after the launch and 3-4 hours includes the time waiting for queue

[@akhsdenlew1861]

First boss is not even a boss, i didn't even remember it lol

[@FenderJReid]

There is a huge parse culture in FFXIV. But they will tend to make groups to speed kill where all 8 people are dedicated to the parse

[@AndrewJnsn]

To the WoW Devs: Stop making your game a chore in which you can only do one way. Oh and actually listen to your critics instead of just giving empty words. To the Final Fantasy Devs: Good job actually responding to feedback instead of pretending like you're the arbiters of fun who can never be questioned To Asmongold: Thanks for the entertainment

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

To the WoW community: Stop shitting on thing that actually are good and stop bullying people who are slightly positive. To the FF community: Stop sucking on thing that actually are bad and stop bullying people who are slightly negative.

[@hufflepoof5510]

@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman actually true, love FF but the community can be equally as toxic as WoW players whenever you point even a finger at their game

[@joem3082]

It's Wow that you can only do one way? WOW?!?!?! Wtf are you talking about? There is literally Z E R O customization to your class or gear in FFXIV . FUCKING ZERO, NADA, ZILCH, ZIT. There is NO CHOICE OF PROGRESSION. You either do the fucking raid... or YOU DO THE FUCKING RAID. There is not even ANY OTHER fucking challenging or progressive content ANYWHERE The only thing the FFXIV dev team has done in "listening to criticism" is dumb down the game every single expansion for 7 fucking years straight (ie every expansion after heavensward). The shit you people write to jerk off while you pretend you made some superior choice by playing this god forsaken game is so baffling. I can't wait until you all realize what you're actually playing

[@jessew5152]

I'm sure some of chat was getting out of hand, but that voice is not easy to listen to. Reminds me of someone on an infomercial trying to sell me a blender at 4am.

[@dinckelman]

The best thing about progression in FF14, from what i've learned, is that top level raiders don't grind the raids on PTS for months before release, just to finish them in one night on live servers

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

One night? Lol

[@latenightramen89]

@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman if its the "normal" versions yeah. The "savage" versions are released later.

[@sweet5694]

Yeah but the “top of the top” of all gamers usually take sweatiness too far. It’s only the sub-top10% that are even human.

[@sirhc1528]

You can call bad people out in FFxiv. Just do it on a constructive way. In a low level dungeon I remind the potenial new healer that he should use his dmg spells. When a healer is not doing dmg in a high end dungeon, I ask them what they are watching. Same goes to Tanks and DPS who dont like to do aoes. When they ignore every advice and continue playing a Ice mage or a 123 only DPS, then they get kicked infront of the last boss.

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

You don't pay my sub *proceed to report you*

[@MenrvaS]

@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman If you are at least polite, constructive and not passive aggressive, getting reported wont ever be a problem.

[@sonic4dawin43]

@@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman it's more like "You don't pay my sub" "Yeah well I'm the party leader so get with the program or get the boot I guess."

[@JackgarPrime]

The big one that tends to come up is reminding people to put tank stance on, since for some reason the game tends to turn it off by itself in a lot of situations.

[@akhsdenlew1861]

really? you counter a point with an experience of a low level dungeon? You really think that wow players will bash you out about your rotation or your damage in a RFK run or or something? No. In both wow and FFXIV, the salt exists equally ONLY for high end content. Honestly, sharing this experience of a low level dungeon to counter this arguement was not really smart.

[@Huntardurr]

glad to see you back! have a merry christmas

[@afrodan7350]

much respect Asmon for speaking up against the internet troll that made fun of this guys voice. Most streamers would probably ignore that.

[@sweet5694]

I mean rewind a year or two and Asmong’d be the one roasting that guy’s voice in tune with chat, lol and he knows thats facts XD

[@atwitchyferret]

People do parse, it's just that they get banned if they harass people and use parsing as an excuse.

[@arcady0]

13:00 - actually in FFXIV Party Finder has some settings for learning party and farm party. And learning parties are very common. When you join one, you go in expecting no one knows the fight and no one has watched a guide and you're all there to wipe repeatedly as you learn it together. Often they get listed by phase. Such as "learning phase 3" which means you should only join if you have already mastered phases 1 and 2 because this group expects to 'farm through' those phases and then wipe on 3 as they learn it'. Farm parties can toggle to only allow people who have cleared the fight - and the social expectation is you didn't just clear it, you also mastered it. They are much more likely to break up after a wipe because it's expected that everyone knew it and so if there is more than 2-3 wipes someone was lying. 1-2 wipes are seen as 'warmup' and so normal. After that they expect to just breeze through repeatedly. Because the other expectation of a farm party is that they are farming for some item, and everyone SHOULD STAY until everyone has gotten the item. If you get yours and then leave, people take note of you...

[@Spawnus]

It's been a while since I watched any videos of Asmon but watching this he seems a heck of a lot more chilled out than he use to be when he was on WoW.

[@bryanwiitala7919]

Asmon, in the beginning of the expansion. The entry level tomes and gear are setting the pace for patches that follow shortly within the first few weeks. The entry level tome is not capped at 450, they are capped at 2000. Hence at the beginning of said expansion it gives the opportunity for all players upon release the same starting line. Hit me up, Hoyt Carver of Lamia. 1.0~ 2.0 2013-Present. Quick edit. Once patch hits with 1st tome and weekly limit of 450 arrives, crafted greens, normal 8 man raid. There are a few options. Usually depending on slot, best progression is Chest, Legs 1st! With a mix of the normal 8 man gear. You want your progression of tomes to fall on the ability to obtain the tome weapon at 7 weeks. This is a good standard but not the norm. Raid progression will obviously start with the 1st EX weapon, accessories and a combination of what I described above. You can also opt for a full set of Penta Melded Greens. Another viable raid solution going into Savage.....you hid my reply....wow that speaks volumes of your character.

[@kaosdrachen]

I've seen this cultural difference mentioned before, and I very much get the sense that a big reason the WOW community is seen as more toxic is because the game's artificial difficulty barriers *create* toxicity. From the sound of it, when you mess up in a hard raid in WoW and it's a wipe, you've just wasted not only your own time and effort but everyone else's as well, and all of you have to wait on the cooldown and/or redo the build-up. If you mess up in FFXIV, even on an EX/Savage and you wipe, it's "Whoops. Want to try that again?" This allows people to be significantly more chill about a mess up.

[@Googlrr]

There's so much misinfo on what's 'allowed' in FF. You're allowed to tell people if they're doing a thing wrong, you're allowed to kick them. You just can't use 3rd party tools to judge their DPS. I've been in tons of Savage raid groups at this point. People will call you out if you consistently fuck up. People absolutely get kicked from groups. You'll only get banned if you're being a dickhead. Idk why people act like FF is the gestapo here to ban you for the littlest things... that just isn't how it works.

[@ArcDragoon]

Asmongold shouldn't put off content just because he's not current max level. He should feel encouraged to explore everything, even if he's not caught up on MSQ.

[@syelle9560]

Exactly. Also, he can't even do those engame contents if he doesn't finish the corresponding MSQ. For example, Eureka > SB and Bozja > ShB.

[@ralpbeez8414]

Asmongold did do the Mhach Alliance Raid for Heavensward, and is doing the later Savage raids for Alexander. He also finished getting all the mounts for HW trials a bit of tine ago. I think the most major content he hasn't done yet is Hildebrand and random level cap dungeons from ARR/HW.

[@danielaxc2900]

I kept thinking the boss fight at the start of the video was for WoW. Now I can't help but think the Jailer's plan all along was to escape to a better MMO.

[@ConkerVonZap]

Literally admite the guys voice is annoying and proceeded to say that you can be banned if you say something bad about the commentator's voice...

[@nepspartan-7597]

It's one thing to just say "Okay, this guy is annoying" and move on. It's another to literally spam about it.

[@nepspartan-7597]

@Planet Khan I'm not being rude, I'm basically summarizing what happened when Asmon had to rein in the chat.

[@yahhah3027]

@@nepspartan-7597 Okay but you’re forgetting that it’s not one person constantly making fun of the voice in chat...

[@poetkifaya]

Let's go, Asmon! I just started HW myself and swapped from Bard to Red Mage. Absolutely loving it.

[@Lin117]

Re: "Infinite Battle Rezzes", I can understand why coming from WoW that sounds silly, but there are a number of factors that really differentiate battle rezzing in FF14 from WoW. The way the video's author describes battle rezzing is really only relevant in normal raid content (which is really the equivalent of WoW's LFR) and some of the earlier/easier extremes of an expansion. In actual high end content, simply rezzing everyone as they die has consequences which compound the more you have to do so. 1. Unless you have a swift cast ready to pop, the cast time on battle raise is extremely long, during which the healer cannot attack, move, or assist with healing. During movement mechanics, which is about half the time during a savage fight, there isn't time to stop and cast a slow rez. 2. Every boss in Extreme, Savage and Ultimate has an enrage timer, and getting a battle rez not only puts a -25% dps penalty on the resurrected individual, but also interrupts the healer from DPSing the boss while rezzing and eats a significant chunk of their mana used for their own dps and healing. After a handful of rezzes it becomes very unlikely to meet the DPS enrage on a boss, particularly early into a tier before everyone outgears it. 3. Some mechanics simply require the party to be alive to resolve them; commonly stackup mechanics or tower mechanics but not exclusively so. Having a dead raid member going into such mechanics often means a mechanic does not get executed properly, and that dead raid member takes someone else with them (or the whole raid). The first savage fight of the previous tier for example (Eden's Promise) had 4 different mechanics I can think of, where one person messing up or dieing at the wrong time would guarantee others die with them, battle rezzes be damned.

[@unixtreme]

17:55 it's totally OK to tell someone they are doing something wrong. Nobody gets banned for that, you just have to tell them like a person and you are fine. You get banned for harassing flaming or generally being toxic, which is the way it should be, those who want to be toxic can go back to wow where the only people left are other dickheads lol.

[@sweet5694]

🤣”GO BACK TO WHERE YOU CAME FROM, WOW REFUGEEZ!”

[@etiennele]

The fact that gear is not important in FFXIV was true until patch 6.01. Now you can only loot 2 pieces of gear per week, so gearing will have a big impact on your damage and your party progression for the weeks to come. also running extreme trials at 560 ilvl is way harder than 570 mostly because of dps checks

[@aickavon]

are you talking about the regular raid loot mechanics?

[@etiennele]

@@aickavon yes

[@burnersforhim]

well anybody who paid attention as far as ilvl should know that accessories are pointless rn from the normal raids

[@etiennele]

@@burnersforhim true except for one ring. And extremes are not for everyone

[@aickavon]

@@etiennele Gear is still not a huge factor. I mean, it's obviously important as for dps checks and makes a difference. But for most non-extreme content, 570 tome gear will do you just fine and pull you through if you know the fight and are skilled. Your reward is obviously, 580 gear, which will make you handle the harder content better but dying is what really well... kills raids. In terms of raids I think that if you reach minimum ilvl then you'll do just fine so you don't need to feel too pressured from getting loot, but the loot is pretty much guarantee'd with how the system is designed anyways, especially if you get into a static.

[@jkdragonjk6895]

The biggest problem I’ve seen with the pf in ff14 is that u can’t segment the fight more than if you completed it or not. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had someone completely new join a clear party and we haven’t cleared thanks to that one guy. It’s not a huge deal at the end of the day but it is annoying

[@spooky_vixen5194]

I love both games and WoW has a special place in my heart since it’s the first MMORPG I’ve been introduced to 12 1/2 years ago, but man obtaining gear is a massive headache. I get sick of not getting shit every time I queue for a raid then be raid locked for a week, it makes the whole wait and run feel super pointless which honestly kills the motivation.

[@Luqaza]

@@magnuscarlsson9969 sørgeligt

[@deekorbel5259]

Having played FF14 for a while what strikes me now is just how punitive WoW is to it's players. I played WoW for a lot of years. It felt weird making the switch but I'm so glad I did.

[@joetheblu3]

wow may be bad but the ff community is cancer

[@viaxon6]

Wow raids: You don't do enough dps, get the fck out, n00b! FF14 raids: You fail to understand mechanics, here, let me instruct you how to deal with this phase. And the gear - you basically need what, 1000 tomestones? That's 2 days of roulettes (if you got that damned i560 ring from dungs...) Also.... i don't know HOW they did it, but 4th boss of new raid is probably one of my favourite. That 4-square mechanic is sooo much fun once you understand how it works.

[@PrimarchRoboleonFrenchyman]

Boooooring

[@catedoss1556]

I don’t think it’s ever ok to kick someone for one little mistake, and I definitely find the culture in FF to be much kinder. For that reason alone I was delighted to leave WoW several years ago. I went back during the last expansion to play with adult son and his friends. I very quickly remembered about the LFR hatred and the awful PVP and the people who would call you out for not doing as much dps or healing as they thought you should be doing. The FC I’m in just runs things until every knows the fights. There’s no bullying or yelling or kicking someone out whether they’re from our FC or not. In the end, only kindness matters.

[@kraismenic4453]

Okay, there's few points I need to correct in the video (the reacted one) 1- Parser community in the game EXISTS, and it's big... like REALLY fucking big (some people do ranking/speedruns to compete with others), in fact there's a lot of greedy mentality in the game, like... parser player can be good at parsing but really bad at progging. Almost every hardcore or semi-hardcore group will look at your median avg and check the date of your clears rather than look at your PBs. Some groups even with the best of the best PBs or historical parsers (100th percentiles), will still need to submit to a trial if they want to join a static - which is the standard policy. 2- iLevels and gear in FF14 have a HUGE impact on the first week of savage raids, especially if you aiming to clear on that specific week (week-1 clear). Every piece of the crafted gear you need to pentameld (putting 5 materias in it), It's SUPER EXPENSIVE process (roughly 4-5 million per gear); and every substats needs to be carefully chosen in a priority system for each role in order to maximize the output damage/healing efficiency/gcd rolling etc... Also, each drop from the previous savage floors will help tremendously on the next one. I like how these videos are so innocent and shy about the game, It's like a colorful world looked from an infant's eyes (in this case a wow refugee being completely new to the game). But the truth is... unless you try a week-1 savage or week-1 ultimate, it's really hard to give an honest opinion about how the hardest content in the game behaves. W1 Savages/W1 Ultimates are on a whole different level of experience, especially if you force to put "normal raids" or "extreme trials" as an equivalent.

[@FuuuckOffff]

Most people are very naive about both WoW and FFXIV raid at the highest level because they never step into them. Mythic isn't that toxic because most raids are guild raids and take weeks/months for groups to clear. They don't just autokick failers, that's reserved for pugs looking to farm. However, most casual raiders only have experience of the latter because they can't get into Mythic prog guilds. Likewise, Savage/Ultimate has an expectation people know the fight. No one likes to have their time wasted and I don't know where the impression comes from that players at the cutting edge will tolerate players well out of their depth for long. Similarly, they can get pretty sweaty during the fights, more so than most WoW fights, they just don't take months of your life to clear. The long-term commitment's not the same but they're still very intense. The narrative around raids at the moment is borne out of WoW refugees that want to believe their new game is better in every regard. But it depends what you're looking for. High-level FFXIV raids are actually more demanding in terms of technical skill and will often require more study beforehand, making them less accessible than people might believe. Alternatively, despite the reputation for WoW raids as toxic, they actually require MORE teamwork because the groups are much bigger and there's way more variables in a given fight. They're just two different experiences and most players have apparently not experienced either to a meaningful degree.

[@kraismenic4453]

​@@FuuuckOffff pretty much. Worths to mention that Final Fantasy raids are designed to clear in 1 day at most, that doesn't mean you are able to clear in that amount of hours, it still requires A LOT of skill and gameplay execution from the entire group. WoW on the otherhand has overtuned bosses, and the amount of preparation and organization for Mythic is insane from what I heard, you also need to optimize the fight as most as you can if you want to beat the DPS check. I know both games has it's challenge, despite FF14 directly "cut to the chase", with the main challenge of progging being puzzles and creative mechanics, but yeah...

[@kraismenic4453]

There's toxicity in both games, in Final Fantasy things happens behind the scene, it's a like a huge pile of drama and gossip. Each datacenter has been known for his demeanors, like... pick Primal's DC as an exemple, most people know stories from Primal statics having a bad deal with reputations because they tend to shit-talking about people in their own groups everytime they can.

[@kraismenic4453]

People need to stop painting this good impression of the game and it's community. Final Fantasy community is almost the same as any MMORPG, because IT IS THE SAME PEOPLE, it's becoming the same fucking community and it's not because Asmon started to play the game back in 2021 that we changed, it has been changing for a LONG fucking time.

[@FuuuckOffff]

@@kraismenic4453 I totally agree. When you read comments, you can tell instantly which players have just arrived because they have a very rosy view of the game and its community. Over enough time in any game, you will encounter assholes and drama, that's just the nature of MMOs.

[@jaeusa160]

@8:40 And the thing about the practically unlimited bresses which works in 14 even on prog for very difficult content like Ultimate and some Savages... the damage debuff people get WILL be enough to screw you on a dps check at some point. That is, assuming it isn't a series of many mechanics at once in rapid succession, and having less than 8 living targets causes a wipe scenario. AND it allows easier content to HAVE mechanics because people can be carried through mistakes, unlike 90% of WoW raid bosses which are jokes. In WoW, you master fights almost entirely through overgearing them, in FF14 you actually learn fights.

[@jaeusa160]

@10:30 Ah right I forgot Asmon did some Alex Savage on zack channel. So yeah, he's got some first hand experience with how the dps penalties on too many bresses do just wipe you, not necessarily immediately but eventually. And the path to clearing is still to learn and play well and not die, and yet this tool exists for lower difficulties to also be more challenging and fun both.

[@artcanbelove7873]

I don’t understand why folks were making fun of this guy’s voice, he’s easy to understand and follow.

[@jaqenart2653]

@@CoalCoalJames im gay and while his voice didnt bother me at all, it reminded me of the "burger king foot lettuce" guy and i thought that was a bit funny. chat was being really toxic tho and im glad asmon addressed that.

[@jojak0512]

It's because no one actually talks like that. It's just weird and off putting to me. I greatly prefer when youtubers and streamers talk in their normal tone of voice and not this weird over the top acting voice.

[@wallywest2360]

The problem in recent expansions for WoW isn't so much a high price of entry into heroic level content. For me it was more the feeling that progression didn't really make much difference. You could do open world content, daily quest type stuff, and be decently geared. You could then do a bit of LFR and get slightly better geared. Then with a good group you could jump straight to heroic raiding. And after beating your head against that wall for a while you'd be slightly better geared, but not by much. It didn't feel like you were much more powerful than you were from the basic stuff. Add to that clearing the current raid week after week and getting little to no upgrades, not because you were already maxed out but because of the pathetic drop rates and loot rules. I raided in WoW for over a decade, so I really liked it. But the last year or so I just couldn't see any point to raiding beyond LFR. Which then led me to question whether I wanted to do it at all. In FFXIV you get reasonable progression every week that you do whatever current content is there. The time invested, the rewards you earn, and the loot rules all feel much better IMO.

[@raviolimatt]

I know msq is a very important part of ffixv and that asmon enjoy (so do i) but i really think he should get back at doing it even if it is off stream or on second stream, at his own pace, no stress instead of holding it for big chuncky streams of only msq progression, think it will be way more enjoyable to watch and for him to play the game, at the same time he will be progressing and being able to do more stuff in the game as he wants to. Leave the big chuncky msq stream for endwarker msq

[@nepspartan-7597]

And if he wants to present the msq to the stream, he can go back and do it after experiencing it himself off-stream the way he wants to and when he wants to.

[@blushingralseiuwu2222]

Yeah, just let his slav- whoops, I mean editor to just edit his msq progression in second channel to youtube. That way everyone is happy.

[@zhanghaotian9510]

Yeah no matter how highly he praised 14, the fact is just that he don’t play it and instead wasting his time playing other games with ‘less quality’ on stream. I even remember he said something like ‘there’re ppl who has been watching me doing story from the start’ so he used that as excuse not doing it on zack channel, well that sounds pretty lame, isn’t it? Imagine there are actually anyone who’s enjoyed the story and is still just waiting for him for months to start Stormblood Lmao

[@iainvos5534]

In party finders for harder content the people posting the listings usually make a clear distinction between progression and learning parties so everyone knows what to expect. If you join a progression party you are expected to know the fight to a certain extent. If you join a learning party you're generally not expected to know much about a fight.

[@GoWithTh3Flow]

The more I watch Asmon the more I respect him.

[@b4lderm]

PF is usually very chill, yesterday evening i spent a good 3hrs farming raids and only once someone quitted because the healers kept pulling him closer and he'd end up dead most of the times.

[@sirdamned9272]

"Gear is just a checkmark that you do." - FALSE "Gear is just glam." - FALSE "It's skill based." - PARTLY FALSE _All of these things_ are misconceptions when it comes to END-GAME progression in FFXIV. Yes, when finishing the MSQ, you'll get a set of gear that gives you the _minimum item level required_ to run Normal Raids and Extreme Trials... but it is _through these Normal Raids and Extreme Trials_ that you must then _gear up to even meet the minimum item level to even run Savage,_ as the set you get at the end of the CURRENT expansion will not be enough. So as an example, you get an i560 set near the end of Endwalker. Then, through both Normal Raids and Extreme Trials (which have a min iLvl of 555 iirc), you get i580 gear and accessories. The gear you get via Normal Raids is capped at two pieces per week, and the gear you get through Ex. Trials is uncapped (but takes quite a while to farm). If you do not do this end-game gearing/progression, your item level wont be high enough to run Savage content. The people saying that gear is just a checkmark, or for glamours, have clearly never participated in current-content at the time of release or FFXIV endgame. Yes, you just need a few poetics for level-cap gearing for PAST/OLD expansions, but Poetics are basically the game's "catch-up currency," as it wouldn't make sense to force people to spend weeks gearing up at level 80 when they're just going to hit level 90 seven days later anyway.

[@RageTheEpic]

Mate you just described what they meant by checkmarks, in WoW you'd have to get specific trinkets, enchants, legos, etc in addition to meeting gearscore.

[@pepos_9960]

or you can just buy/craft 580ilvl gear when savage came out

[@MrJesuisOMG]

I mean. It still leads to the interpretation that it IS a checkmark. Like, you'll get ilvl 580 and the game will say: "Cool, you can do this content now." But unlike WoW, gearing past that point is not "mandatory" to clear the content. Sure, it will help to squeeze more DPS in FF and make the run smooth, but you don't have to be ilvl 600 to clear the 580 content, if you're skilled enough to deal damage enough before enrage timers. While in WoW, you do kinda need to keep gearing outside of the Raid, otherwise you just don't progress. There'll always be a big wall that with a better gear, the difference becomes massive. Better ilvl past the entry point in FF is pretty much to prevent enrage. But it's still very doable at the entry point level.

[@theultimateevil3430]

Full tome gear is 570 (unlimited), new tome gear will be 590 (limited at 450 tomes/week), both of which can be bought after playing a bunch of roulettes. Ex gear is 580 (unlimited), normal raid gear is 580 (limited). Min ilvl for savages will be 570/575, so gearing up for savages is really just a checkbox if you play the game _casually_, extreme trials and normal raids speed up the process, and the gear from the savage raids, which is 600 ilvl, will boost you considerably.

[@sirdamned9272]

@@RageTheEpic No I didn't. "just checkmarks" implies that there's no farming involved and that it is not a requirement, but rather just another checkmark for whenever you feel like it. What I just described clearly shows that there are, in fact, minimum requirements one must meet to get into Savage and that there's some level of progression and farming involved. Nobody said anything about WoW, nor do I need you to explain to me the level of grinding required in WoW considering I played it for 9 years lol. I'm just explaining that there is, in fact, gear progression requirements in FFXIV at endgame. Is it hard progression or something that requires a major grind? No. But saying that gear is just a checkmark or used for glamor, and that raids are instead just a skill-cap is categorically false unless we're talking about old content. I believe anyone who says this doesn't actually raid or do high-end content in FFXIV.

[@furyan9470]

I feel like he should at least have researched savage loot distribution, since it is different than normal mode. Savage drops coffers and gives everybody a token, no 2nd chances here. Coffers have the good stuff, tokens can be traded in for the stuff in case of bad rng. Also there are the tomestone gear upgrade items that drop or can be bought with tokens.

[@lordmathis4935]

I think the expectation to come into fights with the knowledge is because the boss count is low. Like in wow I have to go in to a 8 boss raid knowing all bosses. In FF14 I go into a trial just having to understand the one fight. I think that is where the expectation comes from.

[@bookpow9264]

I puggeed heroics in 8.3.5 in wow and pugged savage in 5.5 in ff14, I can tell u that pugging in late patch in ff feels much better. It takes almost no effort to enter the raids, the only thing stopping you is you clicking the join party button. Tbh nobody talks in both games during raid lol so the pugging community is about the same. Mythic+ was painful though

[@alurian3208]

I love that Asmond took the time to call out people in his chat for being needlessly rude over trivial things like a person's voice.

[@jojak0512]

Be honest though that generic over the top youtuber voice is annoying. Like if it was just his voice yeah I'd say fuck the guys being mean but literally no one talks like that.

[@alurian3208]

@@jojak0512 I've known people who talk like that. Sometimes people have different voices. I often am toke I sound like a female on recordings. But its just how my voice is.

[@FloNess1]

I never played wow and I'm shocked that people leave from wipes in wow, I thought it was normal to keep going and try again

[@1ivestreamer]

I just wanted to thank you Asmon for making ff14 the best selling mmo it makes me proud to be a subscribed ff14 player. Also the raids are insanely memorable and well done plus endwalker is insane!!!

[@zhanghaotian9510]

You sure that Asmon have 100% credit for it?? Well of course no one can deny he contributed a lot on 14’s popularity in the west now along with Rich and other big streamers. The game is the best mmo now simply because it is the best mmo now. Those poor wow refugees just didn’t have a chance get to know such good game exits.

[@Joeyfield0]

It is really something when 6 people died to one thing, and watch as by the second wipe all 8 are moving perfectly.

[@nh-wq6sw]

Asmon keeping his gremlins in check lol

[@DixxyV]

What I like about FF14 the most is the least amount of times the RNGs are involved in your progression. No bs 1% successful rate of enhancement, no 0.01% rare gear drop rate, no reverse progression. It simply doesn't waste your time by all those endless grinds like other MMOs do.

[@Goldsurfer2000]

Well said "i feel that the gear isn't what matters". FFXIV gives gear to allow everyone to play the content. It's all about the glamour!

[@Maroxad]

A game that does that better is Guild Wars 2. In FF14 Gear still matters to some extent, even if crafted gear is good enough for any savage. But for Ultimates you will still want BiS. In GW2, power creep from Gear doesnt even exist. A BiS character at the end of an expansion's life cycle can beexpected to have around twice as much HP as a fresh character who has the Relic Gear and some accessories from levelling.

[@zhanghaotian9510]

Basically Yoship has this direction that when each new patch comes out, the strongest gears of the previous patch immediately becomes obsolete no matter how hard the players struggled to get those gears and they become replaceable by any new gear that they can easily get like purchase with little amount of money, and Yoship has no hesitation on making this decision in order to let returning players able to experience the latest content as fast as possible, even some hard core pve raiders have complained multiple times

[@Maroxad]

@@zhanghaotian9510 Every even numbered patch. x.1, x.3 and x.5 do not come with better gear.

[@zhanghaotian9510]

@@Maroxad wth r u talking about? Pandaemonium didn’t give u new gears?

[@sorakh4119]

@@zhanghaotian9510 It does and the gear is better then the tomestons gear. You right

[@mons0on]

15:13 The only problem I have with this feature, even though I really like it, is that if you keep wiping on a boss even though you know the *entire* fight by heart, and your team keeps messing up something, or you hit the enrage timer because the DPS wasn't high enough, then even if you technically have the level of someone who already cleared the fight you can't join farming parties with other people who know their shit, and you're stuck in some sort of limbo with the players who can't or won't improve. This happened to me with Endwalker's 2nd trial on EX as tank, I had at least 30 wipes on the boss (only in 1 did we survive until the enrage timer), and in about 25 runs I never died once unlike the other 7 party members (different groups across all the runs), but I couldn't do anything to make people pass the mechanics better even after explaining things over and over and over. I knew the fight perfectly and was on the same level as the parties who had already cleared the trial, but I couldn't join people that I knew were at my level until I succeeded myself. It took me until I joined a party that had just cleared the boss and had one tank leave, to get my very first clear on the EX trial (in a flawless run) and thus be able to join farm parties with people who also knew the mechanics perfectly and executed them in a flawless manner. It was absolute hell up until that point and it's even more frustrating when you realize no matter how good you are, you are held back by the skill of your teammates in the end.

[@nahuel3433]

I am kinda in a similar place. I still fuck up on the harder mechs, getting a vuln stack or 2. But I do pretty well consistently yet I am stuck in that limbo. Last I tried the first EX I died to the stack mechanic since most people were dead for it and we wiped at 2%

[@dougfax]

I'm a new player in Final Fantasy, I'm at StormBlood, tried all the extremes avaliable to me, people just quit after 3 wipes, without saying a word. Also in some few Raids, if a rare wipe happens, at least one veteran flames us. This happened in everytime we wiped in a raid boss But the thing is, when someone trash talk all the rest goes in that person and bully him/her

[@randalica92]

Look for groups in party finder that explicitly state are learning/prog parties, disbands after wipes is a common occurrence in farming parties though.

[@dougfax]

@@randalica92 all extremes I did was in a random search, and in all of them no one knew what to do, I had genuene experience fighting ARR and HW Trials on extreme, too bad people gives up constantly

[@randalica92]

@@dougfax that's why I never use duty finder for hard content, a PF learning group expects to wipe repeatedly and tends to stick together for longer.

[@esra013]

@@dougfax you generally never use a duty finder for extreme content. Especially old ones, because these days people expect you to just unsync it to farm

[@MenrvaS]

@@dougfax You should use Party finder [Practice] instead of using Duty finder. Extremes require more cooperation and knowledge of the fight. In JP datacenter, we dont use Duty Finder for Extremes, ever. I ran multiple practice sessions using Party Finder for Endwalker extremes, and each party didnt have any toxic behavior even if we wiped and failed for hour. There are people who already cleared it and came to coach us through it too. In the end, we just pat each other on the back, be proud of our progression and part ways. Disbanding in Duty Finder is probably common since no one knows how to do the mechanics and doesnt want to waste more time. Farming parties also disband after 3 wipes or so because you are expected to perform decently as a party and have knowledge of the fight.

[@manbearpigsereal]

He didn't bring up how you can ignore minimum item level requirements with a premade group, tbf he's relatively new to the game so he just might not know

[@sweet5694]

OMG! WUT A NEWWWWBB!!! CALL HIM OUT BRO!

[@manbearpigsereal]

@@sweet5694 you okay?

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

He literally said he's new at the start

[@percivale6511]

Amazing! The best part was when you stopped to tell the online bullies not to make fun of people. We need more streamers like this! GJ Asmongold!

[@Ktjnn]

Look, everyone has the first time player experience, where you want to do everything you can as soon as possible and ignore the MSQ, but trust me, focusing MSQ first, even if you aren't a story player and skip cutscenes, is 100% the play.

[@FreedomAndPeaceOnly]

1:40 Haha~ Asmo reigning his hounds in. ^^

[@michaelolsson5193]

If you're doing MSQ and don't know a certain fight/dungeon. That's totally okay, just say hi in chat and let everyone know that you never done it before. That's no problem at all for 99,9% of ffxiv players. But if you join a farming party, you better know the fights inside and out. Otherwise you better go. Unless you're in a party that says that they are okay with it.

[@Dotoku14]

The whole "I'll just kick you out" mentality is the reason why the WoW community is the worst gaming community there is. The only way this is acceptable is if you advertise a farm group. And even then 1 death isn't a problem. If Zack does this enough in XIV he will get banned. We don't need another Xenosys in the game.

[@grizzly311tr]

hahahah you're the moron that dies 20 seconds into every pull and REEEEEEEEEEEES hard when kicked.

[@Nhyufll]

Xeno has done alot for the community and helped many tanks improve don’t be that petty also you don’t get banned for it unless you are toxic about it

[@soketh3132]

Gear is a big factor in FFXIV especially if you are looking to Prog EX and Sav, rocking up in just your 89 Artifact gear from the MSQ and your 90 Green Accessories from the last 3 dungeons and walking into EX, you are basically asking the group to carry you. Normal Raid content is easy and yes you can do it in the 89 MSQ gear and 90 greens if you wanted to cause its the EASY content, but EX and SAV prog is not. There are EX/SAV raid dummies you can go test your DPS out on, they are a 3min window of you going as hard as you can on whatever Boss EX dummy you have chosen. If you cannot beat that dummy as a DPS in the 3min time window, dont go into an EX or SAV, cause all you are doing is asking for Carry, when the rest of the people are only just able to clear the dummy test. With the 90 Blue gear from the Tomes as a DPS doing proper rotation and timing, you will find that on the Dummy you will probably beat it will 1-5 secs left on the clock, meaning you have to have almost 100% up time in the EX prog and no death for you to be able to get a clear if everyone else is doing their part. In the 89 MSQ blue gear and your 90 Green Accessories from the dungeons, you wont kill the dummy at all, and you will probably have about 5% left, meaning you are asking a group to carry your 5% lacking and all the while doing everything else. Get prepared, do your part, every bit of Gear Counts in FFXIV PS: info from a guy who has been playing since 1.0 FFXIV and FFXIV ARR and has done the prog in each expansion. you will see when the Crafted Gear comes out (chest and Legs) for Penta Melding, people doing the Prog stuff will buy it up like hot cakes... Why, cause Gear and Stats matter a lot in FFXIV.

[@johnroush5731]

This isn't making fun of his voice, but rather his cadence and delivery. He needs to slow down a bit and not enunciate where it's unnecessary. It feels a lot like a TV host for a chidren's science show. I don't find it unwatchable, but I do understand the complaints.

[@weevil8025]

Clearly didn't see people calling him autistic and gay for his voice. There's a huge difference between bullying and criticism.

[@cg_sidd1745]

Yo, Asmon. FIrst month of expansion is the best feeling ever when you want to go blind on things. Just wait until the new 24man raids come out because those have a huge learning curve week one. I've done runs in 24mans that we would barely clear with 10mins left on the clock. I really hope you get some time to keep playing because we really miss your progression and getting your thoughts on the game. Wish you well and a Happy New Year.

[@Brian-gd2ld]

Respect to Asmon for pausing and calling out chat for making fun of the Willyum's voice. You could hate Asmon all you want or disagree with him but he ALWAYS respect others. The man is principled.

[@apharys8921]

The most painful part of FFXIV party finder is when you've had enough practice and are going for the clear. That's when people start dropping after one or two wipes, throwing insults, etc. There are always people who have less experience and sign up for the clear (some wanting a carry, some just clueless) or they just mess up a lot and ofc there are almost always people who don't want to deal with that. Then every time you get new people in a group it takes a bit for everyone to get used to each other which leads to more people dropping and it becomes a vicious cycle until the group falls apart. Best example I can think of is the Cloud of Darkness tile phase; while the strat is more or less set in stone everyone refreshes their tiles a little differently, if two people run for the same tile at once it's basically a wipe. That was not a fun one to pug, even for farming. Once you manage to get a clear most farm groups are pretty decent. Still get a lot of quitters but it's not as bad, people aren't usually as mean they just leave if the boss isn't dead in 3 pulls (and after having stuck with those groups a bunch of times... I should have left too, they rarely get anywhere). So far Endwalker has been fantastic for me though. I don't have a lot of time to play and started raiding late but I'm still managing to make progress without too much trouble and the fights have been really fun. ^^ The worst part has been trying to find pugs I can join as a Reaper lol it's a very popular job to no one's surprise.

[@weevil8025]

Chat calling this poor guy gay, autistic, etc just because of his voice. I hope he doesn't watch this stream. I'm glad Asmon scolded them though.

[@whitesonicex]

Being able to queue for first phase practice in Raid Finder/Party Finder makes progression so stress free

[@kos-mos4249]

I miss Zack playing the story of FF14 :(

[@peaaanuuutz]

1:37 I know I really don't have to thank you for this because it's just common sense, but I still feel the need to thank you for that. So thank you man

[@soulextracter]

This guy sounds like Stewie! No one is hating on his immutable characteristics btw, it's the over exaggerated inflections that make him sound fake-happy!

[@quinnholton773]

I'm a pf savage raider that started in 5.3 and my word of caution to people in the party finder is to beware of 'farm parties'. Most 'farm parties' I've gone into have devolved into learning parties. If your expectation is clearing a fight 3 to 5 times expect it to be the most grueling 30 to 60 minutes of your life wasted for maybe one clear and a party disband. My word of advice is if the party can't pass a certain mechanic by the 3rd attempt in a farm party say you'll leave after if we wipe to (x) mechanic again. If that declaration doesn't get the party's act together then nothing will.

[@sirdamned9272]

"I think calling people out should be fair, and I think you should be able to tell people that they're doing things wrong without worrying about getting banned for it." You can. FFXIV doesn't ban people for politely telling people that they're doing something wrong. They ban people for ridiculing and/or being rude to someone because they're doing something wrong. You are more than welcome to let someone know that they've made a mistake in FFXIV. In fact, I do it all the time. You just have to act like a decent person while doing so. You also have a vote to kick option, which you will never get in trouble for using unless you're just abusing it.

[@Webberjo]

For release day savage raiding, you either craft or buy HQ crafted gear, meld 5 materia into each piece and you're good to go. Costs like 7-10M gil.

[@MiguelFernandez-ju4dp]

1 minute in the video and i'm crying seeing how he plays RDM, almost everything that he did is wrong.

[@doomdeathxx]

i main red mage and i got 90-94 purple in all Ultimates and my answer to this commentary its... WHO CARES? LMAO.

[@J01789]

Who gives a shit?

[@thesterlingfacade]

@@doomdeathxx If you play like this guy does you were literally dead weight in every Ultimate other people cleared for you.

[@doomdeathxx]

@@thesterlingfacade but i didn't :), otherwise you would be grey barse. greybarseway lmao.

[@doomdeathxx]

@@thesterlingfacade does it really matters in normal raids?... are you gonna pot in normal raids? come on DUDE.. GIVE IT ALL RICH GUY. lmao.

[@fetchgames]

I love it how the video mentions how that mech in the vid is new but they clearly haven't done delubrum where temp mechanics are a thing there XD

[@doggyboggy1]

His voice is seriously uneasy to listen to.

[@TheLineCutter]

was gonna say the exact same thing. who the fuuck talks like that irl. like sticking needles in my ears.

[@TheLineCutter]

in fact i decided im not gonna listen anymore. rip video.

[@eternalinsignia]

Well he is a bit wrong in there. For Normal Raid/Alliance Raid: loot lock happen only if you get the gear or part of gear from that encounter. For extreme: it is free. For Savage and ultimate: only once chance to loot every week for each encouter. If you defeat the encounter, you will be locked for entire week for the loot regardless you get it or not.