Assimilation Will FINALLY Be Useful || Victoria 3 Discrimination Rework

Going over new content news for Paradox Studio's grand strategy game Victoria 3.
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[@vxrw]

"Lets make racism great again" - Generalist 2024

[@ilayohana3150]

Generalist supports the tangerine tyrant???

[@TuriusRay]

@@ilayohana3150 Dude, I hope some day you open your eyes and notice who are really the tyrants

[@ilayohana3150]

@@TuriusRay bwo... im joking

[@sasi5841]

0:23 *racism is a little more deep than black & white* - Generalist Gaming 2024 I mean, you aren't wrong, there are other races after all

[@Buorgenhaeren]

Well there's like 2 other colors but he's technically correct

[@generalistgaming]

"We're more like Barbeque, because we're all different kinds of meats, but we're smothered in the same sauce."

[@ha2kon539]

In sweden the week starts at monday not at sunday

[@Skiddla]

in glorious workers union, work week starts on monday and starts on monday

[@Otto_42]

In Turkiye too.

[@ThereIsNoAOS]

According to the ISO 8601 standard, Monday is the first day of the week, making Thursday the fourth day of the week.

[@CanLambda]

Yes but in america the international standard got ignored because some christian calendar said that sonday is the first day of the week - america and international standards i guess. So in sweden it's the 4th, while in america it's the 5th. I'm not an export, just googled it.

[@zioming]

@@CanLambda I love it when Christianity randomly appropriates pagan rituals.

[@domesticdingo1417]

International Organization for Standardization headquarters: Geneva, Switzerland Europe detected, opinion discarded

[@chronnyc]

​@@zioming? what makes sunday, the day of rest, being the first day, a pagan thing?

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

@@chronnyc The last day of creation was the seventh not the first

[@cyberrb25]

I do have to say, for Spaniards (and maybe for other Europeans), Thursday is the fourth day of the week. The reason Saturday and Sunday are called The Weekend is because, really, those are the Week's End.

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

Its the fourth day of the week in america, too. I dont know where hes getting the "week starts on sunday" nonsense. They call saturday and sunday the "weekend" for a reason.

[@cyberrb25]

@@DrinkyMcBeer I mean, I think it's the Christian ascendancy, which is why Sunday is the day of rest (edit: and Saturday to have the second one). Other religions do reasonably have other rest days on a week (I think Islamic is Thursday and Friday, and Jewish is Friday and Saturday - actually, could it be the Jewish week what makes the Sunday-starting week?).

[@jacbar_01]

1:43 here in Europe, with the exception of Britain, Malta and Portugal, the first day of the week is Monday and the last Sunday.

[@rnd.0m458]

Even in Britain, the week begins on Monday

[@panpsalt6757]

Nope. Here is Greece it is Sunday

[@DrinkyMcBeer]

Same in america. I dont know where hes getting this idea that sunday is the first day of the week.

[@jacbar_01]

@@panpsalt6757 oh really? I looked on a map (common locate data repository) and Greece was among the "Monday countries". Does Greece use primarily the Christian calendar?

[@panpsalt6757]

@@jacbar_01 I just found out it is more complicated than I thought. Basically our word for Monday is Δευτέρα which means second. Then we have the Third and Fourth and Fifth. I have seen both date systems in calendars. I believe the official might be Monday first but it is not really used as such

[@Kalopisa]

other people tune in for the happy Thursday. i tune in for generalist to say "generally speaking"

[@generalistgaming]

I generally don't like speaking in absolutes

[@DerGeraet205]

Dev diary was so good, his beard fell off

[@cyberrb25]

Discrimination used to be black and white. Going forward, it will have more colour. -- Generalist, probably.

[@thebestdamager7400]

Wait, since when is Sunday the first day of the week?

[@Xd1Perigoso]

always has been

[@Fluoman_]

Depends on the country. Most of Europe has Monday as first day, but it's not the case everywhere.

[@thebestdamager7400]

@@Fluoman_ I never even thought about it being different in some parts of the world. I was always just bothered that some calendar apps have it as default

[@Fluoman_]

@@thebestdamager7400 Unless I'm mistaken, muslim countries begin their week on saturday because friday is their holy day. Don't quote me on this though.

[@markjerue9734]

I'm surprised this update only addresses de jure discrimination & not de facto discrimination. Example: you use min-maxing to get Multiculturalism in 1850. In reality, if the USA passed this in 1850, discrimination would not immediately end nationwide. People would still discriminate in day to day life. Just because its illegal doesnt mean it wont happen. It would be more interesting if de facto was a facto(r).

[@grahamturner2640]

How are you supposed to get multiculturalism in 1850?

[@solomonpardue3605]

@@grahamturner2640 I was curious so I just checked. Starting a fresh game as USA you can research Anarchism day 1, since USA starts with Egalitarianism, and with your starting 62 innovation it would take 13 years to complete so even if you build 0 universities and without considering tech spread that would lower the cost over time, you could get an anarchist by 1849 and pass Multiculturalism as long as you manage to ban slavery. It could be a pretty cool run to see how fast/high you can balloon your pop through immigration with USA's arable land, Statue of Liberty, building an arts academy and university in every state, and the Repopulating the Americas journal entry, without conquering other than the Manifest Destiny journal.

[@connorgaming2313]

I've gotten multiculturalism in 1837 but ignoring the FSA strategy probably doable by 1850 given you can get 1 tier 3 tech around 1843 If you rush it getting 2 by 1850 seems doable

[@lucasnadamas9317]

It's a video game there's only so much you can do

[@grahamturner2640]

It would be nice if you linked the dev diary in the video description

[@denki3063]

Google Victoria 3 dev diary

[@silentreflection5350]

A small correction, currently any pops who would be accepted under National Supremacy can join the Petite Bourgeoisie. It was updated a few patches ago

[@kaziem]

Europeans use Monday as the first day of the week. Catholicism did it's assimilation on that a long time ago.

[@rangergxi]

It is kinda silly. Racism and discrimination is more than just people being similar to you. Hell, the worst of it is between people in the same region who share alot of culture.

[@astrithaurelia]

remember, paradox is HQ'd in sweden, commonly speaking, monday is considered the first day of the week here in scandinavia.

[@ConstanzeReo]

Felt GREAT after a nonhappy Wednesday 😢

[@T4G95]

I really like the direction this game is going.

[@davidd.w.8681]

9:37 That's more than 3/5 difference!

[@AgaresOaks]

4:57 90% of the time, the cultural trait is the language spoken which is why it's so useless currently. The current exceptions I believe are USA/Brazil with Afro-American/Brazilian, Persians and Central Asians sharing Iranian-Turanian, and Dai Nam having Sinosphere so they accept Han (and a couple other Indochinese countries share traits with Chinese minorities).

[@kozmabardhi1843]

when is this update gonna come? btw 1.8 and 1.9 have made the 1.7 super obsolete; they have been coking since 1.7, making me want to maybe buy the DLCs.

[@diestormlie]

"So, how wtqs work today honey?" "Well- I really made some progress in implementing advanced racism."

[@generalistgaming]

I wonder if that's in the job title "Racism Implementor"

[@indeoo_]

I think that pops which are discriminated by goverment should make less impact on real literacy rate.

[@SirBalageG]

I could get used to pounds and feet, but no way in hell I'm going to call Sunday the first day of the week

[@SuperNintendawg]

Assimilation has always been useful. It made the late game run faster.

[@blazeburner303]

I wonder how this will effect cultural homelands, or if that feature will be changed/removed completely

[@generalistgaming]

I don't think it will affect them too much?

[@jamescragg6334]

When I was reading the DD earlier, iirc one of the devs said in the comments that being in a homeland gives a passive +10 acceptance

[@penzorphallos3199]

Hell yeah brother, make racism great again 👍 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

[@Ragatokk]

Pop growth in victoria 3 is way lower than it should be, this is part of why getting migration is pretty much completely mandatory. The racist laws instead of letting you get immigrants, could maybe be a boost for pop growth and give throughput buffs.

[@ktosiekbot]

You get more loyalist and less radicals. Ethnostate isn't technically bad. It's just migration is better. So in my opinion it's multiculturalism balancing issue.

[@Ragatokk]

@@ktosiekbot Getting a penny instead of a trillion dollars "not bad" -ktosiekbot

[@lucasnadamas9317]

The Russian and German massive population growths not being in the game is insane to me

[@Cattroll0]

I think diplomacy should also affect it. If US declares Japan a rival, japanise should have lower acceptance

[@sureee_kidsure9180]

sadly, i had to go work in real life and couldn't shout out discrimination in a timely manner. before i venerate prejudice, an opinion on the "Happy 4th day of the week" must be expressed. this concept was introduced on one of the racism update's dev diaries and MUST mean that a "Happy 4th day of the week" is worth 3/5ths of a "Happy Thursday" to reference the 3/5ths compromise in the early American Constitution. make racism great again

[@Wind_Falcon]

They mentioned that they are looking to make trade less frustrating, is that coming in the 1.8 update as well?

[@aapjeaaron]

Generalist. Did you know that weeks in Europe start on Monday and not on Sunday? They follow ISO 8601. Another fun tidbit is week numbering in the US starts at 1 on Januari first and from the first sunday it is the second week. Whilst in Europe the first week of the year is the first week with more then 3 days in it. Or in other words the first week with a Thursday in it. This is the real reason we celibate Thursdays.

[@jakobbjarki4693]

This is awesome! Can't wait for a rework for intrest groups and hopefully an optimization so i can play a full 100 years

[@DGAB955]

They need to rework the war and battlefield mechanics. These small pops' tweaks and improvements are good, but it's nothing compared to the elephant in the room.

[@leo3705]

16:15 it's not a debuff, since they got a lower wages))

[@connorgaming2313]

i think the relative clout of the inteligensia compared to the pb should be a factor for acceptence

[@connorgaming2313]

so for example after the American civil war if the pb were in it it would nuke their clout leading to the historical temporary rise in acceptance of the afro Americans up until the end of reconstruction when the conservatives got back into power in the south

[@grahamturner2640]

Why that? Is it that the Intelligentsia are naturally inclined towards cultural acceptance, while the PB is naturally inclined towards ethno-nationalism? The Rural Folk are also inclined towards racial segregation, and the devout are generally inclined towards national supremacy. Some countries also have other IGs that have their own thoughts on racism (e.g., Austria, where the landowners are inclined towards ethno-nationalism).

[@generalistgaming]

I almost think that both the Intelligentsia and PB should drive discrimination, but this is an interesting idea. Intellectuals of the time loved eugenics

[@grahamturner2640]

@@generalistgaming there are mods that represent the evolution of those interest groups. In one mod (I forget which one), the Intelligentsia can get the National Liberal ideology (racist, but like individual freedom).

[@sasi5841]

@@grahamturner2640 something I don't understand is why are catholic, orthodox, and sunni devout are shown as favoring national supremacy. Instead it think they should be extra lenient in regards to citizenship laws (i.e. slightly favor multiculturalism, strongly oppose ethnostate, and neutral towards the others). However in return they should strongly oppose (to the point of destabilizing the country if they are a powerful ig) switching to anything other than state religion. The reason being that they view themselves as universalist religions, rather than being limited to specific ethnic group or geography. With Buddhism, Hinduism, confucianism, and shintoism them favoring national supremacy or ethnostate while opposing the rest would make sense (because they don't see themselves as universalist religions).

[@LinoClaudius]

We need to reduce loud cars' acceptance.

[@generalistgaming]

Big True!

[@generalistgaming]

Tbf I do not accept automobiles in my economy 😂

[@ynkesfan2003]

I'm watching the video in the present, you just recorded it in the past

[@generalistgaming]

Mind = Blown

[@drventure100]

“Unless you ask an Italian.” So true

[@lazykatie42069]

Also PB didn’t have to be primary culture, just any culture that would be accepted under national supremacy, so for instance Norwegians and Danes in Sweden can also become PB, not just the Swedes in Sweden. Will be curious how this changes with the new system, will they make it so any culture with 100 acceptance can join the PB or what?

[@meatharbor]

The military building thing is a neat idea. Military participation commonly preceded expansions of racial acceptance. The dominant culture leans on discriminated peoples to staff their military but that ends up forcing accepted cultures to mix with the discriminated ones and confront the contradiction between the stereotypes they've developed and the humanity of the people they now have to learn to live and work with. Which also makes me hope they implement a "dominant culture" category that can only be occupied by one culture that can't be assimilated into outside of very late game laws (probably multiculturalism, because of course it would be). This sort of thing is always defined by what an individual is _not_ rather than what they _are_ (see blutschande/Nuremberg laws) and that shit changes every eight secon- IS THAT A "CLASSES" TAB? If acceptance and discrimination changes with the transition from feudalism to capitalism to socialism with racial and religious discrimination being more of an influence early game and then transitioning to class (with racial and religious traits defining gradients within classes) as you get into mid-game and then potentially fully reversing with property-owning pops ending up the targets for discrimination. That would be dope. I want a decree called "struggle sessions" that reduces political strength and slightly increases mortality for aristocrats and capitalists.

[@leoF_0312]

At least they need another thought about the south american effects of the "Promote European migration" button. As I know, that was related to "whitening", so I don't get why it reduces the Authority (it could be a % less of income as European migration was subsidized) But if an alike - event for the "coolie" trade is created (for markets with first node in the Pacific Ocean), which makes Han migration with button, then it is reasonable the Auth reduction, and can also have a reduction of landowners clout (the ones who wanted that "workforce", when slavery was not available)

[@jruss609]

Oh wow, this is super interesting. It’ll better reflect the British/french model of having colonial units vs. American segregated military units. Also, if you can re-segregate the bureaucracy, I guess we can do a Woodrow Wilson run!

[@Poppleop]

At the end there, regarding power interventions in plays. I think it'll continue to be frustrating either way you cut it, until the scale of commitment (10k troops or 300k) becomes better defined and transparent. And/or logistics and war weariness become better enforced and dangerous to allow play around enforcing such limitations on their intervention.

[@Blod1998]

Monday is the first day of the week. Sunday is part of the weekEND so cannot be the first day of the week

[@jimanyon8143]

"We are looking at better solutions to make it more readable" and will fail horribly, till we can copy paste a mod.

[@StBlueFire]

Would Thursdays be happier if they were the fourth day of the week? What if they were the 6th day? What would make Thursday the happiest?

[@davidhuertas5089]

Yay MRGA and also make the late game 2x slower again...

[@lazykatie42069]

In order for pop growth to be competitive with migration they’ll have to increase it significantly to be closer to how it was historically bc rn pop growth just is not as high as it should be, AI countries almost never end up with even close to their historical populations by 1936

[@generalistgaming]

It's one of the huge adjustments VTM makes

[@lazykatie42069]

@@generalistgaming yeah, idk why paradox doesn’t take a page out of VTM’s book and just implement the more historical population growth model it uses

[@generalistgaming]

@@lazykatie42069 they've looked a lot at pop growth trajectories, and I've talked about it a little bit with Alex. VTM sort of gets close numbers erelative to historical in ai games, but in the hands of a player you get way more iirc. I think a big reason why they don't is performance though. The unemployment lategame was also a weird phenomena

[@lazykatie42069]

@@generalistgaming ah that’s a fair point

[@lazykatie42069]

Discriminated pops getting less wages is already a thing in game btw

[@generalistgaming]

Oh that's right, I'd completely forgotten. Is that a negative money malus then?

[@lazykatie42069]

@@generalistgaming I’m not actually sure if it deletes money or just increases the dividends Could be worth testing

[@moritz_pilz667]

happy 4th day of the week instaed of happy thursday, we are doomed no hope for vicy 3. literally unplayable shame on paradox

[@generalistgaming]

uninstalling rn

[@makaramuss]

"shout out: hope you make it"... I need an ambulance too I AM DYING XD

[@generalistgaming]

We're all dying, just some faster than others

[@Terribly_Grimm]

Happy 6th day of the week

[@generalistgaming]

plsno

[@johnred1483]

The week starts on Monday?

[@este6558]

ah it's just victoria 3 patch

[@Hebelehubelledurchfall]

its not live? i feel scamed.

[@generalistgaming]

You have been

[@Borrelaas]

3:00 they also had a huge problem with organized crime.. which might have affected how people treated them People have such 1 dimensional views on the past.. things are related and dont happen in a vacuum

[@lazykatie42069]

I mean, the organized crime thing largely came about as a result of the discrimination thing

[@generalistgaming]

Discrimination against Italians preceded the organized crime element in the US. Southern Europeans and Catholics in general suffered a lot of discrimination during 19th century, before the Mafia fled Sicily or prohibition made things lucrative. That individuals like Typhoid Mary get scapegoated and their nationality is brought up in that scapegoating is a symptom of that discrimination, not the cause. The problem is when exceptional cases (of which there are definitely some - Italian Mob/Anarchists) are held up as a representative sample.

[@Borrelaas]

@@lazykatie42069 so the mafia in italy was founded because italians in america got discriminated? That doesnt really make sense

[@Borrelaas]

​@@generalistgaming Alright? Can you provide a sorce for the claim that anti italianism preceeded organized crime in the Italian diaspora? I know it preceeded prohibition, but so did organized crime. When it comes to Typhoid Mary I hadnt heard of her before you brought her up in this video, just skimming through the wikipedia entry about her it seems like a huge number of people got ill that were in contact with her, and she was quarantined for a long period of time. Was she just a scapegoat? I am genuinly curious, since my impression based on the article is that she was an asymptomatic carrier. In any case she was not southern european. Discrimination in the US back then seems to follow the same old Protestant/Catholic divide as here in europe, where it had been a problem for centuries, not purely "southern europeans" for the sake of it, which is part of the reason the Irish were in the same boat as catholic southern europeans.

[@generalistgaming]

@@Borrelaas the mafia didn't make substantive inroads in the US until just around/before prohibition: web.archive.org/web/20150510215558/www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/organizedcrime/italian_mafia/. Typhoid Mary was an asymptomatic carrier who worked in food industries and infected people, yes. The significant part is that other asymptomatic carriers were not receiving the same treatment (arrest/villainization in the media), and the cultural minority was being scapegoated as virulent carriers when everyone was carrying the disease. Iirc she still holds the record for person in US held against their will without being charged with a crime. Yeah I mean there is a pretty strong correlation between north/south and protestant/catholic w/ Irish being an outlier.

[@thebestdamager7400]

The wage multipliers look a lot like they delete the money. Though maybe not, as it would be more realistic otherwise.

[@generalistgaming]

Oh snap, you might be right

[@andresmartinezramos7513]

Won't it go into dividends?

[@generalistgaming]

@@andresmartinezramos7513 I mean it should, but it might just delete money

[@thebestdamager7400]

@@andresmartinezramos7513 it could be that they want to doscourage you from embracing racism, which imo would be somewhat in line with their actions until now.

[@mathewchristman3435]

First

[@kalvaxus]

First day of the week is ambiguous en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Week#/media/File:First_Day_of_Week_World_Map.svg