Astronomy for Astrologers, Part 1

Explanation of the astronomical foundations of astrology. This tutorial video was designed for astrologers but anyone interested in an introduction to positional astronomy may find this video helpful.
Topics covered are: The diurnal motion of the planets through the houses, the proper motion of the planets through the zodiac signs, and the way the positions of the planets in the celestial sphere of the sky are presented in the two-dimensional chart wheel. The following terms are described and shown in a sky map representation of the sky: Zenith, Nadir, Horizon, and Altitude.
The Sirius 1.3 astrology software is used to demonstrate the concepts. Sirius is created by Cosmic Patterns Software. The company website is www.AstroSoftwa...

[@Neteralchemy]

Not an easy thing to explain - but this video does a pretty good job. Worth watching all 4 parts to get the idea. This is the first time I've ever seen a video cover these topics, great!

[@FreemanPresson]

David, this is good, as usual. Wanted to point out that "proper motion" in astronomy refers to the small angular changes in stellar positions resulting from their motion in relation to each other. The ancients couldn't measure this, and as far as I know, were unaware of it. I use secondary motion or Zodiacal motion to avoid this confusion.

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Yes, very good point. Thanks. I think zodiacal motion or secondary motion is a better term for the movement of planets to help distinguish it from the proper motion of fixed stars.

[@oscardahmer8533]

Damm u have a great mind. Ur a great teacher...Love the way u explain the material. :)

[@jblair5492]

your channel is like a treasure trove. Thank you!

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Thanks!

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Amanda Boom, I tried to reply to your comment below but was unable to so i am replying here in a separate thread. These 2 videos and advice should help: kzbin.info/www/bejne/pGfRpa2ojLdogsk so that you are not confused by some of the basic terminology and facts kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHeVYZymlr2Li7M to help visualize. And lastly this advice: Just keep in mind that there are 2 basic motions of the planets: (1) Just like the Sun they rise in the East, about 6 hours later get to their highest point in the sky and 6 hours later they set. (2) They move slightly in relationship to the constellations in the opposite direction from west to east. You can see this if you go out at night and know which star is actually a planet and look at it at least once a week for a few months and you will see it moves in relationship to the constellations. You have to take time and actually do things like this for it to become clear. It is simple but it can take time to visualize it and actually doing things like this helps.

[@tiffanysampson5946]

So im hoping to get information on the movement of the planets. The stars (fixed) or constellations move through 3 "gates" in decreasing sized rings. Enoch provides clues. the analema of the sun is key. The zodiac provides clues. To begin. Picture a moutain or round pyramid with terraces or levels. Each level contains a Gate. Gate 1 is at the bottom & 6 at the top with rings in between. A Gate, each terrace or ring is at different altitudes. The sun & moon travel through 6, 4, 1; the tropic of cancer, equator, tropic of capricorn. The stars travel through gates 2, 3, 5. As 4 is the ring in the middle (equator), 5 is above or to the North. Below the Equator is gate 2. Gate 3 is below the Equator but stars appear to go above & below the equator (i believe you call it a horizon) The Analema will help if graphed on an X & Y axis. The tropics run South to North in the sky; 1 to 6. The Equator disects the line horzontally. This will be used as a X axis. In Gate 5 in Late Spring to Early Summer with the Summer Solstice running equally between the seasons you have in order going up/North Taurus (Bull), Gemini, & going down CANCER, & Leo (Lion). I call these the Northern Stars. Gate 2 runs from Late Fall to Early Winter. The Winter Solstice runs equally between the 2 seasons with the stars in order going down/South Scorpio (Eagle), Saggitarius, and going up/North CAPRICORN, & Aquarius (Man). These I call the Southern stars. The 3rd Gate is North of the 2nd Gate (up) & below (down) the Equator. I call this Gate the Equator Gate. The 1st month Ares occurs Above the Equator to the left of the Y axis. (Enoch: Spring Equinox siginals the beginning of a new year & the Spring season; The New moon Signals the 1st day of the 1st month. Month 13 after the Spring Equinox accounts for the extra days. Passover always occurs on the 1st Full moon of 1st Month. The phases go from days 1-7, 8-15, 16-22, 23-28; days 29-30 & 31 are No moon days. Each month has 30 days. The 3rd month of every Season has an extra day at the end to signal the change of seasons.)). The next sign is in gate 5. The next sign in Gate 3 is that of Virgo. It is a downward motion to the right of the y axis & and moves from above the Equator to below into Libra. The final sign in Gate 3 is Pisces. It is an upward moving position below the Equator to the left of the X axis. Im not sure if I am making sense. I can share photos which I have done on my facebook page...God Bless...PS the spheres with the wave going from the North "hemisphere" to the South not truth. It creates a pattern in the sky similar to the analemma of the sun & moon. Fold it over and you will get a stacked ring appearance. As I said. A mountain or pyramid with ascending/descending rings. Tiffany Sampson

[@amandaboom3777]

Now if someone could tell me a visual representation of the planets, stars and earth in relation to eah other and this material, I have a hard time visualizing all the rotations...I feel drawn to it but I feel dizzy after a while...Not only with your video but with everything to do with astronomy/astrology: endlessly interesting but my my eyes just turn in my sockets when I try to understand this stuff (yeah, just like the cartoon images of dizzy characters)

[@artindance2992]

Not an easy topic to explain but this video is classic

[@lasmmaeify]

If the houses 12 - 7 are the houses above you, then why is it that a chart based in Japan doesn't show whether the sun or a night sky is above you(from Japan)? Would appreciate feedback on understanding this

[@marcanje71]

Hello David, I've watched the 4 parts of your presentation with great interest being an apprentice astrologer. However I do have a burning question. Since the middle of the sky map is the zenith straight above us, how can the south be on top of the chart? Because if I face south and tilt my head back to look up, the picture I see will show north on top and not south. The only way I can make sense of the sky map as it is is if we were looking at it from above the zenith and not from under the zenith. But aren't we supposed to have maps of what we actually see in the sky? I would greatly appreciate if you could straighten this up. Thank you. My second question is about the ecliptic path. As we see it moving around when you move 1 hour ahead it actually does not describe the path of the sun. I think it would be great idea to make a video on this topic as it is a bit confusing. All the best.

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Jean-Marc L. The problem here is that the word "south" has different meanings and it gets confusing as to which meaning of south we are referring to. If you face south and tilt your head up to see the zenith, the zenith that you are looking it NOT north, it is NOT south, it is NOT east, and it is NOT west in the way that we usually think of these terms. The terms, north, south, east, and west as usually used refer to geographic directions that we can move towards to get to other places on Earth. For example, if I am in New York and I want to go to England I face in an East direction and move in that direction. You never head in a direction over your head to get to another place on Earth. If you straight up towards the zenith you will go into outer space so it has no relevance to getting to other places on Earth. The 4 directions that we use to go to places on Earth do not account for all possible directions that we can go in. Also, suppose that I am in New York and I want to go to Australia. Australia may be in the direction of my feet but we cannot travel through the center of the Earth; we can travel only around near the surface of the Earth so I might head in a west direction and fly over California and Hawaii to get to Australia so I am actually changing directions as I travel around the globe but we still consider it to be heading steadily west. The bottom line is that geographic directions of N, S, E, and W are very limited in the number of directions that are possible and do not cover all of the directions that we can move in. In astronomy (and astrology) there are also different meanings for N, S, E, and W depending on the context and these are different from N, S, E, and W as used when we refer to directions of places on the globe that we are interested in going to. I hope that helps.

[@tiffanysampson5946]

So I think I can help visualize. Art 101. Perspective. The stars move East to west just like the sun & moon. Picture a mountain. You are at the bast of the Mountain. It is the South position; lowest altitude. Look up towards to Polar star you are looking to the top of the Mountain which is the North position. This is the highest altitude. Now imagine a gate or ceiling at the top. It has gates at intervals down the mountain. The midway point is gate 4. This is a gate of the sun around the equinoxes. The sun moves through the top gate around the summer solstice. The bottom gate above the base where you stand the sun moves through around the Winter Solstice. Gate 5 lies below the top of the point. Here the "Northern" stars appear. The are Taurus (Bull), Gemini, CANCER, & Leo (Lion). Gate 2 is above the lowest gate. Here the "Southern" stars appear. They are Scorpio (Eagle), Saggitarius, CAPRICORN, Aquarius (Man). Gate 3 Is technically below Gate 4, the Equator gate but the stars move above & below it. They are: Ares (above; the 1st month; before the Bull month), Virgo (above; 6th month; after the Lion month), Libra (below; 7th month; before the Eagle), & Pisces (below; 12th month; after the Man). These are the Equinox/Equator signs. I forgot to mention The sun, moon, AND stars move east to west. the pattern is an infinity symbol. The move from the middle of the mountain ascending (picture a counter clockwise motion as if you are traveling with your left hand on the mountain traveling from theback of the mountain to the front. In Enoch we are told the sun travels from east to west & returns to the "North". If you have your hand on the equator & winding your up a mountain (Jacobs ladder) going East the hand on the Equator/mountain would be your Left. From Experience when I watch the sunset I am facing west with the North over my right should. To better understand picture 2 people holding each others left hands. the would spinning forward only one way. counter-clockwise. clockwise is descending the mountain. The suns analemma is a prime examle At Gates 1 & 6 the sun moves right to left. At the equator it depends on if you are ascending or descending. ascending is Left to Right (East to West) but descending is (Right to Left). Yeshua returns to Earth to the East. He is not only coming from the North (up above) but also from the West. This is the Left Hand Path. Yeshua tells us to follow the right hand path for it leads to eternal life. To descending leads to decay & death. whether you believe or not, God Bless!

[@Marij174]

Hello David. Thanks for these video's. I learn a lot from it. Do you use only software Sirius, or is it a combination with Kepler?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

You are welcome. Sirius is a bigger version of Kepler so there is no need to run Kepler if you have Sirius, so I use only Sirius. Owners of Kepler can upgrade to Sirius for an upgrade price. I hope that answers your question; if not, let me know.

[@Marij174]

Thanks

[@jamesgreaves3023]

Thanks David. I know Astronomers refer to the Vernal Equinox out of convenience but Astrologers refer to it in reference to the qualities which are given to Aries because it is the Vernal Equinox sign. Don't you think we should change the Vernal Equinox and call it the March Equinox as it is not Spring in the Southern Hemisphere?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Yes, that makes sense. I agree. It would take a major effort to get people to change their terminology but it's a good idea.

[@ChasingTheBagua]

Thank you!! 🙏 😊

[@pinkbittercherry]

thank you!!! that was needed!

[@asheeshshekhar]

David, can u plz tell me which planetary positions are more precise -- sidereal positions( sidereal astrology) vs stellarium software. I have stellarium; but a few planetary position shown by stellarium is different from sidereal positions.

[@CosmicCybernetics]

If you mean precise in terms of accurate measurement, programs like Stellarium which are programs written by astronomers usually give planetary positions in right ascension and declination, while astrologers usually give positions in ecliptic (zodiac) longitude and latitude. Both are precise measurements. Sidereal positions are given by astrologers who practice Vedic astrology which is especially popular in India, and sidereal positions are also in ecliptic longitude and latitude but are offset from the western (tropical) longitude by a certain number of degrees. If you mean precise in terms of interpretation, different astrologers have different positions. That is a lot of information condensed but these videos should help make it clear. The bottom line is that constellations are different from the usual ways of measuring and there are several ways of measuring where plants are: tropical longitude and latitude, sidereal longitude and latitude, and the right ascension and declination (equatorial) system are some of the ways of measuring planets. Another one with azimuth and altitude (horizon system).

[@CosmicCybernetics]

asheesh shekhar I am not an expert in using Stellarium but I doubt that it has the ability to show sidereal positions. Stellarium is a program written by astronomers and astronomers typically do not use sidereal positions and don't have much interest in the idea of a sidereal zodiac. The sidereal zodiac is important to astrologers but not astronomers.

[@vikasgrover8127]

Very good.

[@jamesgreaves3023]

Hi David According to my notifications VolstarTheMagi replied to my question a week ago, but when I pressed on his comment to see the full comment it was not there. Can you tell me how I could find it? Regards, James

[@CosmicCybernetics]

I see that you made a comment a month ago, and I just replied to it. I don't see a comment from you from a week earlier than this comment and I don't see a comment from Volstar TheMagi so I don't know what happened to it. Sorry I am not able to help with this.

[@michaelaomalley6163]

Ok i watched this twice and i still cannot understand how the planets in the chart are moving clockwise. Anyone who has watched transits to their natal chart knows the planets move forward through the zodiac, counter clockwise around the wheel. Please explain?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

The planets have two different kinds of motion. That is the key point. You are thinking of one of the two kinds of motion and not the other one. These two motions of the planets are given different names and here I will refer to them as diurnal motion and proper motion. You are referring to proper motion. The proper motion of Jupiter, for example, is the movement of Jupiter through a zodiac sign in about one year and through all 12 signs in about 12 years. As you point out, the diurnal motion of planets in an astrology chart wheel is counterclockwise. The diurnal motion of all planets is that the planets move in a clockwise motion and spin around the sky in about one day just like the Sun does. In diurnal motion all planets and also the fixed stars go through the houses in a clockwise motion and go through each house in about 2 hours and through all 12 houses in about 24 hours. Note that this is approximately 24 hours to go through all 12 houses and varies a little for each planet with the Moon taking the longest time. From about 10 minutes to 15 minutes in the video I discuss proper motion and in the first 10 minutes I am discussing mostly diurnal motion. Note that modern astrologers think a lot about proper motion and use proper motion a lot such as in analyzing transits, but diurnal motion has also been very important in astrology too. For example, in the Middle Ages, a lot of emphasis was placed on diurnal motion in a system of forecasting known as primary directions. I hope this helps!

[@TheDarshanProject]

Check out this video. While it revolves around Vedic astrology, it involves a little less technical language and has some visuals to illustrate the chart with what is actually going on. Hope it helps: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aobJgKewm8mUgqc

[@michaelaomalley6163]

David Cochrane it does to an extent. I understand the distinction a bit more but not the purpose of the distinction. i still don't understand the use of diurnal motion in astrology or why you cover it first here. When is diurnal motion used in an astrological context, and why please? I read in a book on the houses that planets were considered to have moved through the houses counter clockwise in ancient times, but it also does not explain why, or why this changed... I'm lost.

[@CosmicCybernetics]

MIchaela, you can think of it this way: suppose you ask a child how the Sun moves through the sky. The child is likely to respond that the Sun rises in the morning and it sets in the evening. The Sun rising in the morning and setting in the evening is the most obvious movement of an object in the sky. Our lives are run by this fact. When the Sun rises it becomes light outside and people go to work, school, shopping, etc. mostly during the day. Even someone who lives in a big city and never looks up to see the sky is at least vaguely aware of where the Sun is in the sense that that they know if it is morning, afternoon, evening, or night. Even if a part is completely uneducated and never looks the stars in the sky, they are still aware of the Sun rising and setting and it can be the only thing that a person is aware of. This also has the most dramatic effect on our lives because the movement of the Sun determines whether it is day or night. I am writing in detail about this because the movement of the Sun during the day is its diurnal motion, not its movement through the zodiac. Here is another way to think of it: what house is the Sun in after sunrise when the Sun is a little above the horizon. You might think it is in the first house but it is in the 12th house. About 2 hours later on average the Sun will have traveled backwards to the 11th house. Another way to think of it. Suppose a person thinks that they were born at 3 PM and they later find out that they were born at 5 PM. Does this change the chart? The only that changes by a large amount are the house cusps and all of the planets, not just the Sun, are about 1 house earlier than the person thought because the person was born 2 hours later than he/she thought. At about 4 minutes into the video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/epTYYqmaaJqNbZo I show the planets moving into the next house every 2 hours. When do astrologers use diurnal motion? There are many situations, such as when you are picking the time for an event such as a wedding, signing a business contract, etc. or when you are not sure if a birth time is correct and you want to think of how it is different if the birth time is a little bit different, and in many other situations. I begin by describing both diurnal and proper motion because these are extremely fundamental to what is happening in the sky and how an astrology chart changes over time. I demonstrate the motion of the planets in the sky at about 4 minutes into the video at kzbin.info/www/bejne/epTYYqmaaJqNbZo

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Nice video. Thanks.

[@mesynergy22]

All of the astrology readings I have seen of late always say that Jupiter is in Cancer. But when I look at the night sky, which I do most nights, Jupiter is firmly in Gemini, and has been for months. It's close to the Gemini twins, Castor and Pollux. Can you solve the discrepancy? Can you help me here?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Good question. Yes, Jupiter is in the constellation Gemini and in the zodiac sign of Cancer. Most astrologers in North and South America, Europe, Africa, and Australia use the tropical zodiac. The tropical zodiac is somewhere between 25 to 30 degrees on average from the constellations. Also, the constellations vary in size. For example, the constellation Aries is small and the constellation Virgo is big, while all 12 tropical zodiac signs are exactly 30 degrees in length. Usually, the tropical zodiac sign is one sign later than the constellation so Jupiter in the constellation Gemini and the tropical zodiac sign of Cancer is typical in that the zodiac sign is one sign later than the constellation. I explain the difference between the tropical zodiac and the stars in detail in Part 4 of the Astronomy for Astrologers series and you can go directly to Part 4 to learn more about this.

[@whatabouttheearth]

mesynergy22 the signs are based off of over 2000 years ago due to axial procession...study Axial Procession and Procession of the equinox hence why its not the dawning of the age of Pisces, it is the age of Pisces, hence why 2000 years ago the earliest christians used the exact glyph of Pisces that can be found on the Dendera zodiac which is 100 ad.

[@awakemer]

so the planets moving clockwise are dirunual motion and counter clockwise retrograde motion?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Anna Yusiim Clockwise is diurnal motion caused by the Earth spinning on its axis. The counter clockwise motion is the result of the planet traveling around (revolving around) the Sun. A planet sometimes appears to be retrograde, which is a different issue. The 23rd video listed at kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2TcoqGqiM5ol6s describes what causes retrograde motion.

[@whatabouttheearth]

Anna Yusiim yes because retrograde is an illusion and part of the same orbit, when we orbit around the inner planets, venus and mercury, they appear to be going backwards and the outer planets are moving alower than earth so in our orbit it creates the appearance that they start moving backwards.

[@jessika9488]

Are there any good apps to use on phones?

[@FreemanPresson]

Astro Gold is pretty good. Not as feature-rich as programs for the computer, but very good for casting a quick chart, checking transits, etc.

[@divit2252]

5 yıl olmuş 😐 yeni keşfettim

[@jessika9488]

Hi are you in northern or southern hemisphere?

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Almost everything in this video applies to both the northern hemisphere and southern hemisphere. For example, in the astrology chart wheel east is on the left regardless of which hemisphere the birth takes place. Also, the top of the chart is above the horizon and the bottom of the chart si below the horizon regardless of whether birth is in the northern hemisphere or southern hemisphere.

[@MedullarisConus]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@businesman1010]

Why spin the wheel. I thought the reading was done based on a persons birth date.

[@CosmicCybernetics]

Yes, the astrological reading is based on the date and time of birth. In the video I spin the wheel to demonstrate how the planets move through the day to help explain certain concepts such as declination, and also the motion of planets in declination arcs in the diurnal motion was known in ancient times and is related to semi-diurnal arcs which are used in a form of forecasting known as primary directions so learning about the motion of the planets as we spin the wheel is helpful for understanding many ideas in astrology, some of which I discuss in other videos and will discuss in future videos.

[@businesman1010]

David Cochrane Hi David! Thanks for your reply.