Asymmetric Warfare | Yu-Gi-Oh! Vs Chess?

Did you know that Chess and Yu-Gi-Oh! aren't the same games? Faker takes a brief dive into differences between games of abstract strategy and competition.
#chess #boardgames #yugioh #yugiohtcg #games #philosophy #Questlog

[@QuestLogFaker]

In retrospect that fruit joke was a total swing and a miss, it sounded way better in my head. Oops 🤙🤙

[@imnotacat5299]

Orange meringue pie is delicious 🍎

[@QuestLogFaker]

@@imnotacat5299 sounds like a custom Madolche card.

[@TokenCast]

Hey, do you do cross overs?

[@QuestLogFaker]

@@TokenCastNot gonna lie I don't know what that means lol, like with different genres or with different creators?

[@Evan20000]

It's a crime that well thought out videos like this get minimal exposure when other yugitubers reading twitter generates a deluge of clicks. I appreciate all the work that went into this one.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Thanks a ton, I think it will get there, just gotta take my time and keep the quality as high as I'm able.

[@chrishansen1842]

Had to single out MBT huh? 😂

[@alonsoarana5307]

​@@chrishansen1842and Farfa

[@quacksayssquawk2899]

Ok, but MBT doesn't just read Twitter in his videos. He has made several much more well thought out video essays on the nature of yugioh and its metagame

[@MaxMustermann-bt7zk]

"OMG YOU WONT BELIEVE THIS BROKEN 1 CARD COMBO" "MARKETWATCH, BUY NOW". Im so tired of all this shit

[@spencerignatescue158]

This man just stated that mannadium is a bad deck ...

[@SmugsfromSplit]

It’s pretty mid

[@walkmanstudios9733]

It's high teir 2. All of its weaknesses are ran in every side deck and a lot of mains

[@Burgerboy]

Not a lot of bounce back after being Nibbed or Drolled after Calarium resolves.

[@spencerignatescue158]

@@Burgerboy dude they make baronne sum 5

[@Burgerboy]

@spencerignatescue158 Impermanence, veiler, winter cherries, and they'll never get to baronne if they lose the chance to add extra monsters because of Droll

[@ShonicBurn]

I'm a huge fan of chess and a huge fan of Yu-gi-oh. and I still have no idea why someone has not designed a chess themed TCG yet.

[@ReiAyasuka]

That would be cool 😂

[@ee822]

Competition at its core is a test of skill, and there's easily room for both as they test different styles of skills. Chess and open knowledge games like it hone in on the players' abilities of long-term planning and the execution of those plans. Yu-Gi-Oh and other closed knowledge games are ones that test the players' abilities to adapt to an evolving situation and while you may have a main plan, you need to be ready to adjust its course at any moment based on what cards you drew and what interaction your opponent revealed. Could probably be compared to the pop culture idea of how Generals do their jobs, and the pop culture idea of what battlefields are like. Both are incorrect to what those actually are like (ex. Generals don't have complete information and Battlefield don't just have the combatants of both sides), but pop culture tends to not need accurate to present a certain vibe.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think that's mostly true, I think the skills that are being tested in different modes of competition differ though. Soccer doesn't test the same skills as Poker, so there's something at the heart of competition that is consistent among different modes of competition. I hope you enjoyed the video, it was definitely just an idea I want to flesh out a bit more.

[@thekittenfreakify]

I disagree on the yugioh part. Deck construction only permits adaptability in 2 styles. Control decks and toolbox decks. Outside of that every instance is of games where strategies clash to tge point of negating play to one side. But in recent times we are starting to see a shift in that. With the newer iterstions of the deck styles not mentioned.

[@GladBeastBoy]

I drew all three ash and 2 garnets. I’m ready to adapt to my situation :^))

[@thisnameisavailable]

@@GladBeastBoyyou adapt by scooping without having to wait for your opponent to combo.

[@eeveemaster8902]

I play both games. I think what you said here is very true. Though I prefer Yu-Gi-Oh as a game (always loved card games). I think it's important to release the open knowledge state of games for sure.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I really like the ability to customize and prepare an individual strategy in Yu-Gi-Oh, but I definitely feel more locked in and competitive in chess.

[@eeveemaster8902]

@@QuestLogFaker 100%, if you ignore konami printing scumery. I would argue Yu-Gi-Oh takes more level of planning and skill as you figure out the meta of a new banlist.

[@pkjk1255]

A genuinely interesting take. I've always heavily agreed with MBT's take that present day Yugioh formats are never really solved and the absolute best deck is never really brought to fruition. As you mentioned, deck performances can vary within each tournament - there can be (and often are) mini metas within the overarching meta. Players might side against a particular deck seems to be on the rise, you'll have some people testing some new strategies, etc. Trif is doing amazing right now with Mannadium, and the only reason we know the deck is insane is because he took the plunge and decided to go all-in on the deck. And of course, when looking at older formats, it's pretty fascinating to see how much the meta has evolved within Goat format and Edison. Yugioh really is unsolved. With deckbuilding, there's an endless amount of freedom of expression and thought put into how a deck will perform. I main zombies. Yeah, the deck is far from meta and has been obliterated by the mill hurts hits the past few banlists. But that's not gonna stop me from minmaxing the deck the best I can, and to squeeze ever last drop out of it. The zombie discord literally is full of members who look into every possible synergistic interaction that you can come up with the entire pool of zombies.

[@NightWing1800]

I think it's not just present day Yugioh but every format. Goat format and Edison still have people innovating. You can pick almost any given point in almost any given cardgames history and if you locked it in time, eventually people would find better strategies as long as the game was more complex than "We each put a monster with numbers down and the bigger number wins".

[@e-tan3911]

@@NightWing1800 We live in a world where GOAT, the deck goat format was named after due to everyone thinking it was the best deck of that format, has been dethroned and become a rogue deck due to players discovering new ways to use Chaos cards, and quickdraw dandywarrior in Edison has long lost it's title of the best deck. It's honestly incredible.

[@ironic_ghost62]

This video is so quality im suprised this didn’t have too many views. Subbed immediately

[@QuestLogFaker]

Thank you so much brother, it's been out for less than a day and my channel has been inactive for a few months because of school so I'm sure it's gonna take a bit to get out there, I'm going back to one video a week so the quality can remain at a level I'm proud of, since I do all the editing myself.

[@ironic_ghost62]

@@QuestLogFaker it’s alg bro, personally I suggest not worrying abt the channel too much if it might take away from smth like studies especially. Just do what you can cus regardless, judging off this video, the video will still be a worthwhile watch.

[@spacebartoloud]

I loved playing chess and yugioh back in high school, I especially enjoyed them over being social, I mostly kept to myself, as matter as fact if it wasn't for yugioh, I likely would have had a very miserable high school life, and stuck by myself, not that it would be other people's faults, but I also know I struggle to connect with others, almost as if I am just going through the motions, it is often shared interest/intrigue that brings us out of shells so to speak. - Hell honestly I probably should have looked for help with my over anti social-ness, granted I am flawed and I have accepted that long ago, and I do honestly believe that no one way is the end all be all solution to living life on this blue globe we call home, we are all humans, and humans are innately flawed, none of us know it all, nor are we always capable of always being right about everything. There is a saying I heard/learned from high school, that nigh encapsulates this video, how do I take what I know and apply it to the situation at hand? - I do have an analytical mind, and there is similarities between yugioh and chess, even if I have played neither in person since leaving high school, they both require thinking ahead, and trapping an opponent in a precarious situation that will give one or the other the upper hand, I might be able to think 2-3... maybe 4 moves ahead of most others, but I know there are people capable of thinking several moves ahead, and they know their goal and how to get there much better than I do. The sheer plethora of routes that chess can take is no simple task to fully understand, sometimes it is better to think about the present rather than what will or could be, it is no different than what yugioh has to offer. Even if we know the out are we capable of using that method, let alone what if my opponent has the out, or can just adjust better than what I/my teammates are capable of doing. Humans and the situations that we find ourselves in, can sometimes be so complex it is impossible to say with certainty what will happen, sure chess and yugioh aren't as final as an actual war/battle, and we all have our limits on what we can see and/or do, but it sure can be a fun experience analyzing things to see where one might improve. They are essentially wars of attrition, and yet if I or you can improve so can others. Chess definitely has it's insane amount of possible moves, especially the more you open your back row to be able to move more freely, with exception of the knight, but it is also has an end that is far more contained/will never be altered, whereas yugioh is constantly evolving/adapting, and if we humans do not adapt on some level we will go "extinct"/stop enjoying things. I honestly rejoined things a bit (with) yugioh when master duel came out, the changes have made it quite a challenge to get back into it, I am certainly a yugiboomer, as I played back when goat format wasn't even a coined term for yugioh, last I played it was in 04 (when ancient sanctuary came out), it is a massive uphill battle learning the nuances of modern yugioh, my analytical brain is allowing me some minor success, but not enough to where I was just able to pick up on it right away and stand with or against the new meta. I am trying to enjoy it for what it is, but yea going on a massive losing streak is nothing short of infuriating. Especially when I know you can't just throw everything to the wind after a few losses, though aye sometimes we just know when something is clearly bad/wrong, it is definitely something we all have to be wary of when it comes to what we think we see and what is actually there so to speak.

[@saitougin7210]

6:14 Well, if you play Trifs Nemeses-Mannadium-Deck (which is more like an all-VisasStarfrost-Decks-LinkSpam-Pile), then it definitely not a bad deck.

[@brianlowe904]

My favorite video game genre is known as rougelike or rougelites depending on who you ask. The reason for this is because I enjoy the flexibility I as a player have to show in order to be successful. Altering your game plan in order to accommodate unknown factors is a skill. I like both chess and yugioh for both very similar and as explored in this video different reasons. Both are very technical competitions but while chess is more skill based problem solving yugioh is a game where you have to fight against your opponent and the deck you choose at every opportunity. Now to cut to the chase, I don’t think randomness or the lack thereof is the sign of a good game. Because as I said it’s adapting to that randomness and taking it into account is a skill in of itself. It’s this randomness and the adaptation to it that feels the most in line with real life. To put it simply that and the variety in play styles I can tailor to my own tastes is what I like about ygo.

[@passtheyaoi]

the title of this video led me to believe this would be about designing a format where one player plays Yu-Gi-Oh against the other player playing chess aka asymmetric warfare

[@zefile]

to me, deckbuilding is everything. i want to win with a strategy i made from the ground up. things like ancient gear sky striker, cytrack or bluntskip are my go-to decks for a reason: they're my experiments that worked out the best. now, there's a bit of that, but there's also another part to this: we already know the best decks are good. why show up with tearlament in a tearlament meta? if i got good at the deck, then the game would boil down to luck. "how good is my opponent", "did i go first or second" and "who opened the better hand" would be the only deciding factors, and those are all luck. if i bring my own deck, and it's going to be weaker than the best deck in the format because... obviously; then if i win not only am i winning because of my abilities as a deckbuilder, but also as a player, and that's meaningful to me. of course, the random factors are still there, but they're minimized by the way i choose to play.

[@kitsuaria]

While not strictly related to high level competitive play, there is an interesting factor in which the asymmetric design of Yugioh comes into play that Chess arguably lacks. And thats casual play to an extent. It can be said that Deck building is arguably more important than the player, but ultimately its up to the player to properly pilot it to play it effectively. So while in Yugioh experienced players can handicap using suboptimal Decks or more niche sets to give themselves and other players a different game experiece without handicapping the way they play the game, that interaction is loss in Chess. Because the rules are always the same, the only way for an experienced player to play evenly with a novice is by actively doing bad plays.

[@Hic_Sunt_Leones-o7v]

This is one of the most well made yugioh videos ive ever seen for not being all flashy and shit. Hope your channel rises you deserve it.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I appreciate that a lot, next video comes out Tuesday! Keep an eye out if you're interested.

[@Raz0rIG]

I tell people yugioh is a combination of chess and poker. It is only compared to chess in the sense of trading card for card and trying to stay on top of exchanges on the board. Sometimes sacrificing a few cards here gets you to a better position and leads you to winning the game. Floodgates are like pinning in chess, you start restricting your opponent's moves,etc. I would say you need to approach this game in the sense of poker because of the RNG element. You just have to play optimally and stack the odds in your favor and read your opponent based on the information you have. You don't play on tilt and overcompensate a lucky event and change your deck build but you recognize what you could or couldn't control. Anyone can beat anyone with a lucky hand, but pro players win more consistently over time because they play optimally, so that's where the card variance of poker element comes into play.

[@DMTInfinity]

Duel Monsters is like the Card Game Version of Checkers. Magic The Gathering on the other hand, (At Least Back When I Use To Play It) is like the Card Version of Chess. I've been saying this for about Ten Years. And will Continue to say it.

[@gamezharks]

I think there's some room for fighting games in this conversation, as I feel TCGs, Yugioh especially, share alot of similarities to fighting games in the sense of the importance of comboing, reactive play, knowing matchups and how to counterplay them and all kinds of things like that.

[@QuestLogFaker]

100% in fact you could make an argument that fighting games are the best type of competition for this discussion, as the power levels and styles are fixed, but variable.

[@MYTHIC_PRODIGY]

Why am i just now finding this amazing content

[@QuestLogFaker]

Probably because I just finished school and am just now making videos again! I appreciate it very much, I think if you watch any of my older stuff you'll very quickly notice I had zero experience with editing, recording, script writing, nothing; I'm a total rookie lol. That's an amazing compliment though and I appreciate it more than you know 🤙🤙

[@Zetact_]

I think it depends on the game. The adding of random chance is something that absolutely is preferable for a TCG. Since randomness is inherent to games that use something like a deck as playing pieces, adding consistency boosters makes playing the game more smooth but also makes it get stale faster. I'm personally not a fond of games that are "solvable" like chess, where there is an "objectively right move" to make. Not to mention that the removal of random chance in a TCG makes power creep scale up significantly and I think that the thing that caused the insane ramp-up in Yu-Gi-Oh that has placed the game in its current state is the fixation on consistency. Master Duel Drytron having it be possible that your opponent normal summons Diviner and you just SCOOP because you don't have the out is in some ways a damning of RNG elements (you lose if you don't open well) but the actual reason for that RNG screwing you over is because the consistency of Drytron was so high that they can set up a win-con so easily. Herald is absolutely a powerful monster, but it was never a problem until the Drytron cards, Benten, and Diviner gave it consistency. Simply having randomness is fine, if not healthy, for the game. It keeps it from getting stale, or solved, and in a TCG when you start pushing towards maximum consistency you run the risk of making games more linear and making decks more samey. The HERO archetype is an easy go-to example - it's the largest archetype in Yu-Gi-Oh and has at least 6 clear "subcategories" of monster (vanilla E-HERO, Neos, Destiny HERO, omni-HERO, Masked HERO, Evil HERO) but due to consistency most HERO decks you see are just a pile mishmash that will set up an endboard of the same monsters, by doing the same combo off of Vision HERO Faris. Consistency has taken a deck that is in theory meant to be a canvas for player expression, that was designed initially to be built on versatility (in the GX anime they even acknowledge in-universe that two characters both piloting E-HERO have vastly different overall strategies due to E-HERO being able to reflect the specific player) and made it into a linear combo deck that uses the same monsters and the same combo every game.

[@Flaherty_Rising]

Great video! Good to see you back making video's!

[@QuestLogFaker]

Thank you so much!

[@DonPiuo]

There is a whole branch of logic called game theory that can be applied also to card games and chess kinda like you did, and it's focking interesting. Would love to see more videos about it.

[@QuestLogFaker]

There are more videos coming 🤙 this Tuesdays vid is gonna be a little different but I'm working on a follow up about going first vs second.

[@Flamewolf14]

For me when i play card games i am looking for interesting desitions and same when i played chess recently seeing my choices have an impact and with card games what you bring is not only fun for flavor but style and choosing what options you might have in game

[@Regularmovie2004]

Literally my 2 games. I'm just getting back into Yu-Gi-Oh

[@Speculector]

Another important factor is the advance of the internet. When i was a kid in the early 2000s i couldn't look my deck up on youtube and learn from pro players how to optimize it then order what i need from tcgplayer like we can now.

[@CajoeTheMiner]

I’ve always seen YuGiOh as a game of complex chess. This video was great I’d love to see more like it!

[@QuestLogFaker]

Trust me friend there will be!

[@superbarriobros3372]

Yugioh is unfair chess. With chess you just buy a board once. And that’s it. And Yugioh. It helps to have money lol. Getting a play set of tactics thrust is kinda expensive.

[@rollsreus3862]

@@superbarriobros3372 yugioh has especially gotten worse with the money....legendary collection 2 (which is a binder full of some gx promo cards and 6 mega packs) used to cost 60-80 usd on ebay (tops 100). now i checked on ebay and it's nearly 300 dollars?! i mean wtf?!

[@ReiAyasuka]

In chess you can play openings that match your playing style or dubious ones to trick your opponent, but at some point more and more people become aware of their refutations or some "interesting" move gets invented and played out in some professional game. Metha changes a lot even in chess.

[@GurrenPrime]

When I saw this title and thumbnail in my recommendations, I thought it was a video about trying to somehow combine the two into a single game, akin to some videos I saw about combining chess and checkers. What the video was actually about made a lot more sense though, so I’m not disappointed.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Don't tempt me though

[@YTDan]

I appreciate this video as it’s been a subject I’ve battled with since middle school. I left the chess club to play Yugioh and chased the dragon for years. This resonated with me as you spoke about the duality of perfect knowledge versus randomness. Yu-Gi-Oh is often like solitaire & chess, depending on the match-up. There are decks with a high power level, but they are easy to play, and decks with mid-power levels that reward skillful play. Yu-Gi-Oh! is a game that rewards creative, innovative players with strong data analytics skills to assess the meta and all rogue contingencies. As the meta ebbs, new cards, and strategies flow, a duelist must study a library of previous meta strategies and topical meta-relevant subjects similar to an up-and-coming chess master. I feel these games, regardless of circumstances, are the same once players of equal skill meet.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Thanks for the view, I definitely think the games are testing different skills, and I think that Yu-Gi-Oh sacrifices an element of perfect competitive balance for the (in my opinion) vast array of individual decision making that deck building allows. I appreciate your input, I might make a follow up video in a few weeks because some of these comments have been great.

[@majkatrojedjece6585]

Well, chess has much much higher skill cap and is also much much eaiser to start playing, that makes it much better competitive game, but still collection part of yugioh makes it more fun for me.

[@rollsreus3862]

i fucked around on ygopro maybe for a couple of months and had like 80 or so decklists saved on there from nights of fixing and tweaking ratios and splashing engines. my most favorite experimental decks were the dark synchro combos with malicious edge/dark law or different nekroz variants. deckbuilding is a rigorous process and i feel like the argument about "randomness determining duels" completely overshadows tangible examples of what you mentioned where players need to be cognizant of entire deck libraries and rogue contingencies

[@saitougin7210]

Btw. Something about this very serious looking person with Yugis haircut on top of him is very hilarious.

[@eriliken7987]

As a chess and yugioh player I loved your insight on both games, great videos

[@QuestLogFaker]

I appreciate that very much 🤙 keep an eye out for some more videos on similar subjects.

[@eriliken7987]

@@QuestLogFaker I really hope to see them again, you would be the only yt channel to cover this ahahah

[@ihsaanrawat2583]

Wtf this just showed up in my feed and I've instantly subscribed! Such a good video. Hope the channel gets more recognition

[@QuestLogFaker]

That means way more than you know, next video comes out Tuesday if you're interested 🤙😁

[@andrewkelly1337]

Youre correct. Randomness doesn't gel with competitiveness. Makes it really annoying how hyper competitive the communities of Trading Card Games are.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I kind of agree, I understand why they are because I'm very competitive too, but I definitely find myself able to shake off losses in Yu-Gi-Oh easier than chess losses

[@andrewkelly1337]

@@QuestLogFaker I play MTG, not Yu-Gi-Oh (I took a deck with Black Tyranno as my ace monster to a tournament once back when that card was relatively new), and yeah the standardization of every format and deck by the min/maxing community makes deck building impossible because you can't compete with their efficiency without just using the exact same cards in the exact same way every game, defeating the purpose of being able to build your own deckm

[@kokomamado1640]

there are two dimensions of skill in Yu-Gi-Oh the first one is the deck building and the second one is the deck usage for example I always thought that Yu-Gi-Oh is just a game of chance and if you have a good deck that's it until I seen miss plays which means that I could have used the same deck in a better way and that means that it was my skill that was lacking

[@HEBUSTORLL]

Hence the popular saying "They're playing chess, we're playing mfing yugioh!"

[@KakoriGames]

The thing about randomness in competitive games is that introduces a new set of skills that aren't present in games that don't have randomness. Poker is one of the main examples of this, where most of the game boils down to knowing how to deal with the hand you're dealt and being able to read your opponent. Without randomness or incomplete information, there is no Poker. Another example is Backgammon. A individual game of Backgammon may be relatively easy to play, but a good chunk of the skill involved in Backgammon is knowing when and when not to double the cube. Also, about chess, the role luck plays in the game is often underestimated. Sure, Chess may be a game of perfect information, but you can never calculate everything, specially when you have a limited amount of time in the clock. Because of that, it often requires you to make seemingly random decisions. Like, do you move the left or the right rook to the open file? If you don't have enough time to calculate all the repercussions, the choice boils down to chance.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Yeah a ton of people had mentioned Poker and that is a really interesting point I never considered, I don't know much about Poker honestly but it's a good contrasting point. I think weighing risk and reward in games with unknown information is an entirely new skill.

[@KakoriGames]

@Lakers1990 "Now humans can't do that" and you just proved my point. No one is arguing that chess is more luck based than Yugioh, but most people think of chess as a game with no luck involved, but that's not true. So yes, the role of luck in chess is often underestimated.

[@gomez9949]

In Yu-Gi-Oh, it's basically evolution that we are rating. Although power creep can be an issue, finding those answers, waiting for a ban, or having a new card(s) redefine the meta of how it's played is all a part of it. A person showing up after crafting a deck that does something novel, defeats a tier 0 deck, or amusingly wins through unseen and unaccounted for means, it's very much a love hate relationship. Sometimes one more than the other, but give it a month or a year and if Yu-Gi-Oh is still in business, it'll send out some other wacky mechanic or set that nullifies your current pet peeve. Still, wouldn't hurt to get more clarity on card text and tournament play must be a nightmare to learn on top of an already complicated game. It would be interesting to know the percentage of players that play irl while adhering to the ban list because they're tired of OTK and If they're possibly being motivated into tournaments since they already play with bans.

[@doesntmatter4136]

never got around to responding to this so i sadly don't know if you'll see it, but as an avid fighting game fan with thousands of hours dedicated to them I feel obligated to make the comparison. I think it's an interesting one. Fighting games are games of, technically, complete information--you know the exact kit of your opponent's character and the options they have at their disposal in a given moment, but at the same time you don't know which they'll choose. Like Blitz chess, these games are very fast-paced and having a short amount of time to make your decisions influences what people opt to do (to be fair--you have so little time sometimes that reaction time and physical elements start to factor in, though you play around aand adjust to those, and ill avoid going into it for the sake of making some points and comparisons), but the 'correct play' varies way more than it does in chess because one choice can cover multiple options and the viability of individual choices can be very comparable, so its a lot harder to predict your opponent's moves based on those kinds of calculations, you have to rely more on figuring out their habits and psychological conditioning. But they also allow, like card games, the sense of individuality and identity that comes with getting to choose something that fits your liking or your playstyle. Plenty of people simply 'play a top tier' in a given game, but even more play the character they like the most or feel fits their playstyle most (obviously, prioritizing both strength and playstyle is very common too). Add to that the fact that the same character can often be played very differently by different people, and this gives them that same satisfaction and customization element that is missing from Chess. Here I'm supposed to say in fighting games you, like Chess and other complete information games, supposedly have no excuses compared to the RNG-filled Yu-Gi-Oh, but that's very far from the truth. People will find all sorts of excuses still, from lag to character strength to 'he's just a masher/can't be conditioned/hes just doing stupid shit and im not expecting someone to be that stupid so he wins' etc., and I think that's kinda funny. I think when you add that expressiveness, the character choice and more freeform options with less of a 'there's a SPECIFIC correct play here and a few less correct plays,' you accept also allowing people to use any of those things as excuses. Obviously the RNG isn't as important and game determining as YGO, where you could actually blame many losses legitimately on RNG and a good player is measured by how consistently they can topple the odds and win more than the average, but the excuses are still there. Personally, I don't really enjoy Chess. I used to play it when I was younger and occasionally play it with friends but the game feels like such a (to borrow fighting game terms) knowledge check. There are things that if you don't simply know you will get run over and punished for not knowing, and while there is room for creative decision making these barriers are so incredibly massive that I just can't stay motivated to actually take it seriously. I don't enjoy how formulaic it can feel sometimes. I enjoy Go a lot more because it just feels more dynamic and freeform, and it still has the absolutely no excuses element. Of course both Go and fighting games have their own barriers to entry and 'knowledge checks' but it feels a lot more managable to have to learn a few combos or learn the basics of go than learn 41876412 openings and memorize different ways you're 'meant to play' the first 20 moves of a game. But yeah, I just thought a third type of game that has some things in common and some things different from each of these was a pretty interesting point to bring up. I think the excuses in YGO are fine to have, because maybe I really did win thanks to RNG. The only metric that matters to me isn't what my opponents are thinking, its how often I won with this deck i'm working on. I would rather play YGO over Chess 10/10 times because I enjoy deckbuilding and expressing myself through my card choice, I enjoy incomplete information and adapting to unexpected/dynamic situations, I enjoy the ability to customize my deck to deal with specific matchups better (this is something that I can't even do in fighting games, though they do reward me for labbing and studying interactions in a specific matchup and the satisfaction of developing your own tech for a matchup in games that allow that is really something, but so is coming with your own strategy or optimizing something in ygo really). I find it a lot more engaging.

[@Alderoth]

We have chess vs yugioh, it's called Duelists of the Roses

[@QuestLogFaker]

You know, I missed out on that one growing up.

[@Alderoth]

@QuestLogFaker easily a top ygo game. Honestly if the series continued, I might have liked that format more than real ygo

[@ninjaboyjames]

I think at least when it comes to yugioh and other card game the match starts at the deck building phase. Or at least thats me when going to a tournament

[@MaskedPlayer514]

Thank you youtube for recommending me this video holy crap, instant sub. Both games test different skills, even yugioh formats test different skills like tier 0 formats vs a varied format like we have right now. Sacking does suck but the random chance is needed to force you to adapt on the fly. Now to watch your vid shitting on rotation formats because I finally found someone that agrees with me

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think that random chance is the price we pay for novelty and individuality in our game, and it's a worthwhile price in my opinion. I'm glad you enjoyed the video 🤙

[@quentinchoumont3437]

Wouldn't make an orange pie? Orange meringue pie, its like Lemon meringue with all the bad parts of an orange.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I'm not a sophisticated man, but I never got the appeal of shaving an orange on stuff. That's literally the part of the orange you don't eat.

[@vincentsissom4180]

Its nice to see a nice comparison between Yugioh and Chess. Yugioh was one of my favorite games, and Chess is one of my father's favorite games. Thank you.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Absolutely brother, thank you for watching.

[@vincentsissom4180]

Not a problem. Just wondering, do you have a Discord server?

[@QuestLogFaker]

Not yet, I don't think the channel is that big just yet, but it's something I've considered. I'm pretty active in the KZbin community section for now though.

[@vincentsissom4180]

Got ya. Hope you do get big enough.

[@leafninja-fox5713]

This is a very interesting topic honestly, considering I mainly play yugioh, but I do dabble in chess sometimes. Yugioh is just more fun because things can usually CHANGE. There is always variance with gives things a nice spice

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think that's the main point I've been mulling over, Yu-Gi-Oh has such a variety of gamestates and the deck building process is so personal, while chess gamestates can vary wildly game to game and get very interesting, it's not the same as discovering a new deck imo.

[@Tangerinian]

difference you didnt mention; while there are some changes over long periods of time, chess is mostly the same game, and the meta is pushed forward by people advancing at the same game. Yugioh is constantly changing with new cards, banlists, and rulings, so that a large part of the "skill" being tested for is who can react to/keep up with it. The extreme end of this is more like warioware.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think I mentioned that briefly at the very end, but that's a huge deal. You have to adapt to new environments in yugioh every round, let alone every banlist. Good comment.

[@kamavonender7069]

I'm hear and subbed just for this as I swear I made a reference to this last week not seeing this...I made the reference as to dating.....told a coworker he can't be playing chess if she playing Yu-Gi-Oh 😂

[@FabianPerez-lc9bk]

The real question we should ask is what is Bobby fischer card crush

[@SerrotBelac]

Idk but to me i see it as dualism. My mind thought of the dualistic nature of Divine/Nature Law Vs Man Laws. Its hilarious how everything's can come together

[@S.O.U.L.153]

I only have a few issues with the banlist, only cause I love rogue decks that make older monsters relevant again and feel that they try to keep newer decks to overwhelming for many people's favorite classics. But I have been keeping up rather fine still.

[@MrInterVention149]

I do enjoy your video on the two games. I got back into chess not too long ago and I enjoy it highly. I also play Master Duel casually. With Yu-Gi-Oh, chance is a huge component. I do videos for fun, and have a video that I want to post about a game I played. The randomness was reduced quite a bit with the deck profile I used, however, the opponent also ran into the issue of not getting set up on turn one. Having no defense, my first turn was an OTK (one turn kill) because of the perfect hand, lack of defense by the opponent, and the removal tools at hand. Being as it was a casual game for a video, it was not as epic as it could have been against a real opponent online. But, it does show how a single mistake or misfortune of the correct cards in hand can make all the difference in the game of Yu-Gi-Oh. Or for any card game for that matter.

[@robinberger208]

Did this guy just say that milling is a way to *reduce* the randomness of your deck? Mill decks are the most random a deck can get, they do not have combo lines, everything is random

[@SuperElite27000000]

Yugioh, especially if you go back to earlier formats is really just chess+pokemon+poker all rolled into one.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Yu-Gi-Oh is whatever we want it to be, and that's one of the reasons I love the game so dearly.

[@alucard4344]

I clicked on this thinking this is just another one of the duel logs channel.... Great vid tho... I also play both chess and yugioh, 1200elo on chess, ancient warriors on ygo...

[@QuestLogFaker]

Ngl I seriously considered changing the name when I first started out because of that possible confusion lol, I'm glad you enjoyed, videos are gonna be every Tuesday 🤙

[@antman7673]

What I really enjoy about yugioh is an evolving game. You could play a chess game and couldn’t really tell, if it was played 100 years ago. Really depends on the meta, what game yugioh is. Some formats require differing amounts of technical skills. Is the game more inconsistent and high role -“more casino”. How many decks are playable. And lots more….

[@hefdef9961]

i thought this was going to be a hypothetical ruleset for playing chess vs ygo :(

[@Daniel.F4514]

In my opinion all sort of competitive game its a small reflection of the biggest,dangerous and more exiting game ever created by men,"WAR".That is the ultimate game,and humans inherently and historically always feared and loved to play it.YGO is more reflecting of war than chess ever will,the randomness,the unknow,the fact that besides choosing your best army(deck),there are other factors that take place,elements out of our control,just like the real battle,that realism is what i always enjoyed about the game,the difficulty of not just know your own moves,but to preddict your opponent ones,and to pray to god for luck into the uncertanty.That's how real wars are played,and YGO is a better reflection of that ancient dangerous art

[@cushitic173]

i just thought of both of these games looking for a comparison video few days ago now i see it on my recommended

[@QuestLogFaker]

Serendipity itself.

[@driptcg]

The age old question (yugi vs chess). Nice video

[@QuestLogFaker]

Appreciate it greatly 🤙 new vid drops tomorrow.

[@codecracker01]

I didn't expect a video with this crossover. I'm much better at chess than yugioh but I love both because at its' core is strategy and thought provoking games. Btw, I loved when you said Fischer should have tried Yugioh haha because he was that one World Champ that said that he ended not liking chess because it became boring due to memorization and repeatedness in a way. Thus his advocacy for Fischer Random Chess or Chess960. Imagine if he would have tried Yugi 😅

[@QuestLogFaker]

What deck would Fischer have played? My guess is Tearlament, also I'm glad you enjoyed the video brother 🤙🤙

[@hi-i-am-atan]

got me musing on a chess variant where the set up of your opponent's board _isn't_ totally known to you from the start, because each player is allowed to build a personalized board by swapping out individual pieces for variants and which variant they chose is only revealed when a variant rule is performed. so you know where their bishops are as per usual ( which is where they are as per usual ), but if there's a variant of, say, a inquisitor that can only move up to three spaces diagonally but can also nudge itself forward a space to alter its alignment? well, if they only move a bishop up to three spaces at a time, then it might be a inquisitor. or they could just be moving it to make it look like a cardinal, pressuring you with the potential for it to hop from white to black while keeping its full movement range in their back pocket. or it could be a cardinal and it's actually been hopping exactly three spaces each time, to mask its movement range of hopping three spaces diagonally or two spaces cardinally it's absolutely something that would work best in a digital simulator, not only because ... well, it's kinda hard to hide the shape of your pieces from your opponent when they're physical pieces, but also because the simulator could whittle down the possibilities of each piece's identity as they collapse. similar to how pokemon showdown lets you see private info about your opponent's pokemon, but only in vague ranges based on the species, the game state, and previous interactions. considering the absolute headache it'd be to handle illegal moves around unknown pieces without the rule that lets you put your own king in check, it feels a bit necessary to be able to check what variants your opponent's pieces could still be for anyone to actually learn this chaotic nonsense

[@QuestLogFaker]

Gothamchess and Hikaru have a few videos with fog of war in chess and it's really funny, something like Fisher Random + Warhammer lol.

[@WilliamReginaldLucas]

I always imagine a pay to win chess app where you have to buy your pieces, or you can buy yourself an extra queen lol

[@QuestLogFaker]

I'm chasing that Starlight Rare Rook

[@nagitokomaeda5977]

i think that there is no difference in what is needed to be a good player in both of these games. We get a various options of how to proceed further on a given gamestate and analyzing it and deciding what option to pick is the best to win that is what takes skill in both games. but this sounds so vague that it basically can be said about all of the competitive games what stands out in this particular comparioson of yugioh and chess is that in chess you need to predict what your opponent is going to do, and in yugioh you need to predict what your opponent is most likely going to do? you need to evaluate risks and rewards for each given play that may affect or may be affected by hidden information by some or other way. And then be screwed by some random card anyway because you can't play around it. Yeah. idk

[@prosamis]

Deckbuilding is far more than "mechanical superiority vs jank" and is one of the main methods of skill expression in yugioh It's how we have repeat YCS winners, it's how the best in the world operate So though luck is involved, it's vastly overshadowed by how ridiculously consistent the game is and how much of a determining factor meta calls and innovations are

[@krawlerSPINE]

6:00 showing that krawlers are truly competitive

[@QuestLogFaker]

If you enjoyed the video at all you should watch the episode of N/R Showdown where Luke absolutely sends me to the Shadow Realm with Krawlers, I think that episode counts as assault, like, legally.

[@tiranogt]

There is also the money issue, a player can be genius, but if he can't afford a meta deck he won't shine as much as he could. In chess this is minimized because there's less product to be sold. If a Chess player is skilled enough, things will start to get better for him. For Yugioh its the opposite, you just spend with little to no return.

[@QuestLogFaker]

100% although I have less of an issue with the cost of Yu-Gi-Oh! than many, but the video was mostly comparing differences between known and unknown information in competition, as opposed to things like price points.

[@RAPXILLA]

The proper analogy is chess and poker mixed together. Lol

[@QuestLogFaker]

Someone else left that comment and I definitely agree with it in retrospect, I don't know too much about poker tho lol

[@MrJuan_Vzla]

3:40 what's that card? 6:02 I always say that YGO is like car racing. You can tune Krawler all you want, but it won't beat a deck build to be better. And Konami knows what decks are going to be better. Sure, there are exceptions but that's it.

[@QuestLogFaker]

The card is Nightmare shuffle, anime only.

[@BeaglzRok1]

As a Yugioh/Chess/Magic player, my biggest gripe with all of the games (but mostly the card games) are that I don't like playing competitively and thus often get """sacked""" by someone drawing one fully-unlimited Ash Blossom/Imperm/Lightning Storm or other interaction, on top of general poor luck and no desire to have a great level of skill. On the chess side, I kind of enjoy the fact that I know that all of the mistakes are my fault, and all of the good moves I make are at the very least moderately intended to be as good as they are, but I'm not striving to beat Mittens bot or anything. At the same time though, by virtue of the game being more or less static if not solved, and the skill behind each move, it often forces the game to a level of competitiveness that's beyond "fun" and into, well, competitiveness, "tryharding." Baseline, you don't really get the customizable aspect that card games have of just not opening book moves and try things that are objectively less good. On the cards side, I love being able to pick my powerlevel. If I want to be full Gravekeeper's Stun with a playset of Skill Drain and Necrovalleys, play Yugillennial 2014 Infernities with no Link-climbing abuse, or just play a 60-card pile of one-of Dark Magician support, that's my choice. I can "choose" my luck via deck construction. What sucks is that I only like playing Solitaire when it's actually solitary; I feel bad subjecting other people to 15-minute turns with a Stardust Synchro deck. I also find it far less engaging, daresay less skillful, to play 20 one-card starters (one was semi-limited) and always go through the same chain of effects to get effectively the same endboard. And I say less skillful because I will play GK Stun (sans Skill Drain) against such players and far too many of them fail to realize that the field spell says "no graveyard," the continuous spell says "no special summons," the fusion says "no pop field spell, no pop me if field spell," and be surprised when their Raigeki does nothing Ecclesia can't tribute itself. I will get blown the fuck out by Floo, but I'm not here to ruin people's day, I'm here to get a chance to play the game for one turn. What I'm not here for is seeing the fifth game in an hour activate the same Limited card after winning a coin flip and knowing my hand can't do anything against what's going to happen after 20 minutes on a 5-minute timer. TL;DR I am too casual to care too much about the asymmetry of it because all of my games are inherently asymmetrical. I am never trying as hard as my opponent is because I play games to relax and enjoy myself, not give myself a stroke before the age of 30.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think that symmetry element of chess lends towards it being more competitive. I definitely find myself analyzing my chess losses harder than Yu-Gi-Oh losses, and I feel worse after a chess loss. I can shake off getting sacked easier than I can missing mate in three.

[@glim9879]

Ngl before I click the video, I thought this is a video about Vaylantz. Lol that deck is just playing chess while playing yugioh

[@QuestLogFaker]

True story I have never read a Vaylantz card in my entire life 🤙

[@randommaster06]

Modern Yugioh decks don't benefit from the TCG model for games. Konami removed amost in-archetype variance. While it lets you make powerful boards, there's not much variety. The major exception is the unsearchable staples that can single-handedly win you the game. This gives you little variety game-to-game, which runs contrary to what most people expect from a card game, TCG or otherwise. Games get stale after he first few times seeing them in action. If variety isn't going to come from individual games in a TCG, you have to get it from somewhere. The only real way to do that in an eternal format is to add cards, (release new sets) or remove cards(ban/limit cards). There's also not much or a reason to master one specific deck/archetype because better cards will be released or you cards will get banned. It combines the most frustrating parts of high-skill and high-luck games, which causes people to get tired of formats so quickly.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I think that's just an inherent little snag that TCG's have to deal with, I'm not sure sure it's like, inherently fixable, which is where a lot of variety comes from players picking different strategies, casual formats also help with this, I think at high end levels of competition in any game, things start to optimize and narrow down significantly.

[@randommaster06]

@@QuestLogFaker If you remove the biggest element of randomness from a TCG, you just have an obtuse board game. You're only playing with a few actual pieces. The "combo" just ends up being busy work, which isn''t fn to do or watch. It's like starting a game of chess by throwing the pieces around the room. It' doesn't change any strategic choices, it just waste time. It's not that Yugioh isn't fun, just that most of the random elements that separate a TCG from a board game have been removed.

[@Bobr1n]

I think personnaly that closed knowledge game like yugioh test some "meta knowledge" skills? Or as i would like to say "the skill to be able to adapt to ANY "unknows" based on your general knowledge of the game in it's entierety" Wich i think is really nice and truely a show of skill and not random chance BECAUE you need to factor in random chance"s" for every game you will play, and still come out on top

[@QuestLogFaker]

I agree, I think that's why we consider meta calling and prep, side boarding and whatnot to be elements of skill on yugioh.

[@louistech112]

I think yugioh is harder due to hidden knowledge and card text. Also yugioh works with on the fly strategy if you don’t know the deck. In check you can plan

[@cherryvapr6969]

Tbh the easiest thing to do is to generalize to every game it improves your lateral thinking and in yugioh most of the modern format is have outs for immune cards such as summoning over or poly stealing options and then making sure negates don't stop you from your plays or slows you less than your opponent. After that it's pretty much just a draw rng especially for anyone in an elo bracket over 1850 if masters 1 started at 1600. Let's add a coin flip and an 8 sided die so you choose your piece by back row front row and if it's an illegal move you brick xD now it's a fair analogy

[@SerrotBelac]

Oh dear bobby fisher on Yugioh 😂😂

[@rashidi_nn]

Y'all should play dungeon dice monsters yugioh. I play with ppl local to me in New York.

[@skyslasher6267]

i think poker is a better comparison, i often explain yugioh as a mix between poker, chess, and i note that deckbuilding means that people can play with different "pieces"

[@QuestLogFaker]

Yeah I worry I didn't highlight that argument as much as I wanted too in this video, I got to start realizing that people actually watch these and make sure I refine and actually express what I want to say effectively. That idea of playing with different pieces was kind of the whole point of the video lol. Poker is a good comparison though, probably the ultimate example of unknown information in competition. Unfortunately I don't know Jack about Poker so I'd have to research that heavy.

[@skyslasher6267]

@@QuestLogFaker i actually think you did a good job of saying players come in with different pieces. as far as poker goes, its all about guessing what your opponent has, exactly like how yugioh is, and actually pretty close to how people predict the stock market (i would call it appraisal). also, nice pun at the end there

[@alledzebu1975]

Can you explain me the comment "maybe Bobby Fisher should have picked yugioh"... Why? What was it about him? I'm ignorant in chess sadly :(

[@QuestLogFaker]

Bobby Fisher quit chess early despite being one of the best of all time and invented his own form of Chess called "Fischer Random" which randomized the back pieces so the games would be different every time, he didn't like how static chess was.

[@M3rtyville]

Now time to learn how to play Japanese Mahjong.

[@QuestLogFaker]

As a chess player all I've ever heard is how much better GO is than chess so maybe that's next.

[@_Majunior]

Subbing because you said you were going to continue with this subject

[@QuestLogFaker]

Next video is going to be on going first vs second 🤙

[@_Majunior]

@@QuestLogFaker great premise, I'm all for it

[@TokenCast]

Mannadeim is a bad deck now?!?! Welp guess I'm bringing back Quintet Magician and Soldier Luster 1 or 2 turn pull outs again😢

[@QuestLogFaker]

Listen my brother in Christ I am an Altergeist one trick, I feel your pain.

[@Maravillante]

Chess needs more trap cards and dragons

[@QuestLogFaker]

And an extra deck where you can overlay taken pieces into pieces of equal value.

[@lamMeTV]

GOATS has not changed in like a decade so updating a game to keep people engaged is a fallacy. I just cant with chess there are too many options from the outset. More a Go kinda person.

[@joon3035]

Yugioh should have a chess clock

[@some2043]

I thought this video was about going first between chess and ygo Something like knowing your opponents fist move is a valid reason to go second in chess while in ygo an extra card isn't if you can't semi-reliably otk in your first turn

[@QuestLogFaker]

At the very highest levels of Chess playing as white is seen as a clear advantage, just like in Yu-Gi-Oh, but at lower levels it doesn't matter as much, I might make a video about going first vs second. I hope you enjoyed.

[@darkira2129]

But there also the time when like the chances are stack against you, but you win anyway.. in yugioh. Once in MD I use Branded Bystial against Kashtira, my hand isn't bad, got Branded Fusion, but I go second. but at the start of my turn both copy of my fallen of albaz got banished, even though Bystial pretty good by themselves it's still hard game to win

[@QuestLogFaker]

100% just like how in Chess you can fall down material early and make it back with solid mid or late game play. Nothing is set in stone and I think that's one of the best feelings in Yu-Gi-Oh.

[@huggelion]

what would be the best chess opening for a speedroid player

[@QuestLogFaker]

As White? Evans Gambit, as Black? Scandinavian. Gotta go fast boy. Win or lose I'm moving on to game two.

[@alicepbg2042]

saw the title and just pictured chess boxing... but yugioh... gonna pitch it real quick. you heard of chess boxing, now get read for chess yu-gi-oh!! it's chess and yugioh, you play both at the same time. 5-6 min on each clock for the chess game. win either of those to win the round. we playing best of 3.

[@QuestLogFaker]

Each player begins with 10k life points and LP can be gained and lost in the boxing segment of the Duel.

[@madsinban]

Nobody has ever earned my sub so fast

[@QuestLogFaker]

Thank bro, I'll do my best to keep it 🤙

[@gustavflensted4651]

Thank you for making this😮

[@QuestLogFaker]

Absolutely brother, I'll do my best to keep it up

[@gustavflensted4651]

@@QuestLogFakerlooking forward to it👍🏻

[@bbro43]

I remember back in Yugiohs Battle City. Kaiba had a database put together with everyones win loss record and then every card they have ever played. Using that he gave player levels by giving them stars the same way monsters have. And I think in a day and age where we have apps like Neuron, Duel Links and Master Duels, that there is no reason why when you build a deck, we shouldn’t be able to calculate a level for it based of the number of related cards and synergy with cards both in and outside of an archetype. And I believe having those deck levels offers a wide array of new opportunities for competition. Making a 4 Star deck for competition would have entirely different metas, but it would also let you enter with an understanding that all the decks in the competition have comparable value.

[@jofx4051]

If u ask me since I play both Chess is NOT a logic game until the board is much simplified Logic is a something that you can just simply deduce by observing and playing repeatedly And you simply cant win if u are terrible enough This is why I quit chess Chess is perfect information EXCEPT is in what intentions what they wanna do Yugioh is simplified anyone observing can deduce what player does using logic most of time You or observer have no knowledge until at least a or several cards have been played I know the thing is that... Yugioh is assymetic in information and in power of the decks You can win or you can lose even if you are newbie or experienced It is organic game to some sort of points It is calculatable moves by anybody since count of cards are limited Idk what else I wanna add...

[@tropicalkitsune5131]

Cool video and fun idea!

[@QuestLogFaker]

I appreciate you, thanks!

[@MoonlightDusk]

Not even AI can tell what to do in Yugioh.

[@AljoschaW1993]

Runick is the Chess Deck i think

[@EMPCraft]

Mannadium is top tier

[@QuestLogFaker]

Bet

[@aagodzilla]

Interesting i just see chess as an difficult game to master while yugioh it impossible well you can master it up until next ban list or new card or an new meta that one of the reasons why i love yugioh cause you cant master it permanently if the game keeps changing

[@QuestLogFaker]

It's a constantly evolving landscape, meanwhile chess demands it's players make suboptimal opening decisions in order to introduce novelty into a technically solved game. I love chess but Yu-Gi-Oh is definitely more novel

[@eleonarcrimson858]

I consider the novelty of playing a worse deck in yugioh, for me atleast, is me trying to get the dopamine shot of “I won a game even with a dogshit deck like this”. Sometimes I want to put parameters to make my games harder so that I have more fun regardless of the skill level of my opponent. I must sound like an absolute dick

[@QuestLogFaker]

Yeah but being a dick is like, 60% of Yu-Gi-Oh 🤙

[@Lazzle-Dazzle]

Overall, Yu-Gi-Oh isn't a skilled based game imo. I think Yu-Gi-Oh excels in the freedom of expression when it comes to deck building, which is the main reason why I still play it. 1) I don't see the skill in using generic extra deck monsters. Like dark world and blue-eyes using rank 8 monsters (Galaxy-eyes, Draglubion, Numeron Dragon, etc.). That's like a knight being able to move like a bishop or a rook. All extra deck monsters should have specific/stricter summoning conditions 2) I don't see the skill in using cards that don't have "hard once per turn" effects. 3) I don't see the skill in using handtraps, Omni-negates, and one card combos. Yu-Gi-Oh is still a fun game to play under certain conditions and matchups, but it's hard to take seriously due to severe powercreep and consistency creep. But chess is definitely a skill based game that can be taken seriously due to it having a hard once per turn mechanic.

[@QuestLogFaker]

I largely agree though I think that's a pretty spicy take for many in our hobby, there's definitely some element of skill in deck building and navigating combos, but it doesn't seem up there compared with other games, like chess.

[@Lazzle-Dazzle]

@@QuestLogFaker I understand your standpoint. But if we are being honest. There's no skill in deck building because most decks have the exact same cards in them via online deck profiles plus staples like handtraps/tech cards. Not everyone pilots them the same per say, but the deck theory overall is the same as well as the combos and/or strategies. If I have to rely on using unfair cards to win, how can I say that I have skill? If I want to prove my skill, I shouldn't have to rely on exploits to win. Yu-Gi-Oh is full of exploits. So I find it difficult to say that this game is skill based. Yu-Gi-Oh is a fun/entertaining game at times, but imo; skill has to revolve around fair game balance like chess.

[@phorchybug3286]

Chess may be "simpler"/"perfect" but it's more cryptic. Nothing tells you how the game works. What is this horse? What are these crowns? What is this Jesus?

[@QuestLogFaker]

Chess certainly isn't perfect, but the information conveyed is technically perfect, as each player is allowed a clear perspective of the board at all times, but yeah some game states you pop in to view and it's like being transported to Narnia.

[@mastatheif9909]

I wish Yu-Gi-Oh was as simple as chess

[@QuestLogFaker]

I feel like I can navigate a tearlament chain better than i can a Caro Kann fantasy variation.

[@mastatheif9909]

@@QuestLogFaker if it was pure tearlaments sure