ATC 2021 Game Changer Toy Hauler part 3, final review

[@bambiwurscht]

Hi, can I ask what you be paid for the floor isolation? I wish I could buy your used ATC, sounds like that would be a better deal than a new one 😅

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I paid around 700 for the spray foam under the floor, I delivered the trailer to the company’s yard and they fit it into their schedule. And yes it was a much better deal than new after I did all of the repairs.

[@bambiwurscht]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks thank you for the quick reply. If you were in the market again for a toy hauler, what would you do? Still go with ATC but with open eyes and make sure the dealer commits to warranty and repairs, or did you learn about any other brands that you would think have better quality control?

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I really don’t know what I’d buy but I’d definitely do more research and shopping around doing it over. If you go through the comments on my videos people have suggested quite a few other options. I’d probably look at something more off road friendly for my use, possibly the Black series units. Ideally, I’d probably build my own trailer. Good luck.

[@bambiwurscht]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks, just curious, what is the newer product on the market you mention at the end of this video? Did you buy it already and what is it?

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I bought an Overland Explorer Vehicle slide in truck camper, Camp-X model. Not perfect but much better suited for our use right now.

[@Redacted-x_x]

Mind if I ask what your GVW of the trailer was with no vehicle inside it? And with all the safety issues you had, is it actually dangerous to haul a car with this?

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

@@Redacted-x_x I don’t remember the GVW but the biggest issue with any toy hauler is that you’re limited to where you can locate the cargo front to rear to create ideal tongue weight, this trailer wasn’t big enough to haul a car other than something very small. I would recommend a gooseneck over a bumper pull for any type of toy hauler.

[@johnmartinuzzi9283]

Great videos on this trailer. You have really made second guess buying one of these trailers. I want an all aluminum set up so I’m going to look more into the cimmaron toy haulers. They have some wood in the living area however the construction is all aluminum. Maybe give them a look for your next rig. Thank you for such great reviews.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Thank you! I sold the ATC and bought a slide in truck camper. Good luck with your search. Cimmaron trailers look nice but I’ve never seen one in person yet.

[@josephkulp4393]

Recently looking into the ATC line of trailers, watching videos and reading attempting to decide if they're right for me. Any word of your video receiving feedback or any changes being made at ATC based on your video/experiences or any info from anyone on if there was a covid related slump in quality and perhaps the quality issues have been corrected on current production? Thank you Pioneer Classic Trucks for the insights.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I’m not sure honestly, many comments indicate a covid related problem with QC, but some said ATC always had QC issues. I sold it and never regretted it and haven’t heard anything recently about their QC improving. Good luck, I’d go over it closely before buying one.

[@markgadol6472]

Sorry to hear all the issues you had. My buddy and i were both considering purchasing that model. Went to a dealer outside of atlanta to see thm.it was in the 40s that day. It was likie walking into a walkin freezer ,once inside. After heating your problems and others,im convinced to stay away from them. Shame i really like the concept of them. Goodluck on your next one. I might lean towards lance toyhaulers if they start making them again

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Thank you. I agree, I liked the concept of the all aluminum construction but the insulation was not good for hot OR cold weather. If they could add thermal barriers and consistent insulation it would be a much better trailer. The bigger issue for me was all of the QC issues, but I still want to be able to camp in all weather conditions and be relatively comfortable.

[@dgeorge414]

We never heard from our dealer again, except for direct phone calls where we'd get the response, "we'll check on it and get back to you". We went straight to ATC and things started happening. Customer service at the factory is excellent.

[@bryanstaten5585]

Where is the factory located?

[@dgeorge414]

@@bryanstaten5585 Nappanee, Indiana

[@melissatravers4569]

Thanks for these videos. I have been researching ATC. We currently have an Airstream and can't open our tailgate all the way either.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

It really is a huge inconvenience for something so easy to design for.

[@davidc.9933]

Trying hard to decide if this is worth it. Love the utilitarian aspect. Love the low weight, but I hear about quality issues. Unaccaeptable at the price of a rural home. My first comment on their videos was that you need to spend 20k extra on options to not freeze. You sound bummed. Bit just based on the accuracy and honesty I would camp with you any time.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I’ve also heard from other people who had much worse quality and warranty issues than I did. Their design has a lot of thermal transfer, so hot or cold weather was very noticeable inside, seemed like the AC couldn’t really keep up. Cool weather same way, when the sun goes down you can immediately notice it. I was very disappointed with it. I think I may have spent more time working on it than camping in it. There were things I liked about it too, just couldn’t justify keeping it. I’d like to build my own camper so I can have exactly what I want and know it’s done to my standards. I have a Camp X slide in now, if you ever see out somewhere stop and say hi.

[@1hasbeen531]

We had the same costly lesson with our Sundowner. Considered ATC, but the more we learn, the more it's deja vu. Considering a Super C when we return to RVing.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I had considered a Sundowner before buying the ATC. Thanks for the info, that’s good to know. I want to build my own camper now so I can be in control of the quality.

[@HolmesPHXX]

I enjoyed your 3-part review. I'm amazed ATC hasn't responded! I wonder if the quality control issues are widespread or if your experience was an anomaly? In spite of your review, I'm still considering purchasing a 5th wheel ATC for fulltime living because there just aren't many aluminum options: Living Vehicles are pricey, Airstream seems overrated, and Bowlus isn't practical. I'm concerned it will be difficult to keep the ATC cool here in Arizona during summer months, unless I'm lucky enough to find one with upgraded insulation (as you know, custom ordering is more expensive and 6-8 months out). Also, since I'm not as handy as you, I'm not thrilled at the idea of taking my "home" back and forth to the dealer for warranty repairs (the AZ dealer says repairs are 2 months out!). Can I hire you lol

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Thank you, it’s good to hear that my videos are helpful. I heard from some people who seemed to have even worse QC issues than me, and some who had better experiences with ATC. I did finally receive some money from ATC but it wasn’t enough to justify all of the trouble and lost time. I think a pre covid unit is probably going to have less issues but those might be even harder to obtain than waiting on a new one. I think that pretty much any mass produced RV is going to be disappointing if you have high standards. I would definitely recommend getting the best factory installed insulation package, and on top of that coating the roof with a reflective paint to help with hot temps. Even with all of that, you will likely notice more thermal transfer due to the aluminum frame and rely on air conditioning more which will require running the generator, shore power, or a substantial investment in solar and electrical upgrades. When parked in the sun, temps in the mid 90’s, I could really feel the heat radiating into the trailer, like standing under a patio heater or something like that, it never really felt like the AC could keep up. I also think the idea of taking your home back and forth to the dealer for warranty repairs sounds miserable, even if you have a location with quality technicians. It’s not my dream to offer mobile RV repairs, but it was easier for me to do a lot of repairs myself vs. dealing with the time and hassle of going back to the dealer and then being unsure if their work would be any better than the sloppy factory work. Also factor in your time and fuel to travel back and forth to the dealer. They obviously didn’t do any pre-sale checks on mine before I got it and I had to make repairs myself in order to have the trailer useable in time for trips I had planned because like you already know, it can be a long wait getting on the dealers schedule. Good luck!

[@stephanddudb7361]

Take a look at Oliver Trailers built in Tennessee. Very high quality, no wood, and excellent insulation (but they're small - no toy haulers). Good luck with your next RV.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I’ll check them out, thank you.

[@cbdane]

I look forward to learning about your new set up!

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Good to hear, I plan to get a quick walk around video out on the new one soon. Thanks

[@joemeyer2726]

You do not need to move the propane tank back the air once again was yours you need a hitch that is extended far enough away from your truck bumper so that your tailgate can come down I use the gym why torsion boss bitch and I have full extension so I can be completely hooked up and put my tailgate down no problem

[@brandonbentley5198]

Have you chosen another toy hauler if so what route may you be going? Thanks, appreciate the review.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I have a slide in truck camper now and will just haul my bikes on a small trailer. I don’t know what to recommend if you’re looking for a toy hauler, I’m not happy with ATC at all. There were things I liked about the ATC but after all of the problems I had and also hearing from other people with similar or worse experiences I decided to sell it and do something different. I’ve been waiting 6 months to hear if they will reimburse me for parts and/or labor costs I paid out of pocket to repair my new trailer before I could use it. It’s one thing if there are some problems to fix, but it’s a much worse situation if they don’t stand behind their product. They don’t even have a phone number on their website to contact them, you are forced to go through a dealer. Good luck

[@brandonbentley5198]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks totally understand especially with an $80k-ish price tag I would expect better. Well hope you have some better luck with your next set up. Thanks again.

[@bryanstaten5585]

So I saw where you went with a truck camper.....what brand or custom build?

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

It’s an Overland Explorer, Camp X model. Made in Canada.

[@joemeyer2726]

You also did not pay for the upgraded wall thickness which makes a huge difference on structural strength

[@joemeyer2726]

ATC never intended a single lead acid battery to boondock your toy hauler over an extended period of time a single lead battery is basically just to move your jack up and down and for you to get your generator turned on it’s that simple if you want to be on pure electric and not using a generator you could have from the very start ordered from ATC and upgraded electrical and gotten as many battle BØRNS as you want someone like me who uses a battery simply to move my jack off my hitch and put it on the hitch doesn’t need anything other than a single lead battery and I don’t need to put all that money into fancy lithium set up when I’ve got all my money tied into a incredible generator that can power me all trip

[@joemeyer2726]

No thermal transfer if you had simply paid for ATC to fully insulate

[@bookieyadigg]

What if they bought it already built? I see some on the market

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

When I bought this trailer there wasn’t much available to choose from, it was the only one available that had all of the interior components in it, everything else was incomplete and waiting on parts to be manufactured.

[@baconcreek609]

It’s too bad the quality suffered so bad.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Great concept, poor execution

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

It’s too bad I suffered from their lack of quality.

[@deathstar2245]

You rock!

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Just trying to share my experience, hopefully it’s helpful.

[@deborahscara5571]

I'm surprised you didn't check all these things out before you bought it. You don't seem to have anything good to say about ATC. We've had our ATC over 2 years and haven't had one problem. We paid extra to upgrade the insulation on the underneath side and walls and roof, we don't have any problems with heat or cold we have camped with weather being below 30 not a problem we've also camped out in Arizona with temperatures over a 100 not a problem .We've traveled some real bad roads and nothing has fall en apart. We had one time the bathroom over flow ,put that our mistake. Good part about that,we just Tilted the trailer up and hosed it out. Hope you find something your happy with. And about towing my husband nor I as a lady never had a problem pulling the camper. It pulls great. We have a 28 ft front bedroom ATC and love it. Our camper is a 2020. Like I said we payed extra to have upgrades. Which I believe the upgrades are part of the new standard

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I’m curious what year your trailer was built since you didn’t have any problems with it.

[@deborahscara5571]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks We have 2020

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Interesting

[@petebusch9069]

Sounds like you should have researched this trailer before buying.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I did some research and but not enough apparently.

[@gregparrott]

#) I see this video answers the question I posed in your prior video (which you also answered). The question was what level of response you received from ATC. (Answer: Virtually no response). That's too bad. It ranks their customer response as no better than virtually all trailer manufacturers. They consistently receive failing grades. #) The bumper pull versus fifth wheel is not attributable to ATC. A fifth wheel is most people's preference. Personally, I like the bumper pull, as it leaves the truck's bed usable for stuff. Also if the 'stuff' weighs a lot, you can optimize the loading between truck and trailer. #) The insulation is an inherent trade-off. Even if ATC were to add insulation in the places you identified as uninsulated, my guess is that the net improvement would be marginal. No matter how much insulation they add, aluminum will allow a LOT of heat transfer. I've seen other trailers which had foam added to the bottom. They had a protective sheet so that dirt/mud would not cake on to the foam and frame. Hopefully, KZbin may show a newer video from you, revealing what you bought as a replacement for ATC.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Yes, not much of a response from them, pretty disappointing. After owning both types, a fifth wheel is my preference for a toy hauler. I know other bumper pull toy hauler owners who hate the way their trailer tows, it’s just impossible to get the weight where you need it with so many variables of how and what you’re hauling in the trailer and not always being able to position the load where you need it for correct tongue weight. Yes the aluminum allows a lot of thermal transfer, and my trailer didn’t come with the best insulation package from the factory but I was surprised to see how minimal it was, to the point that it was uncomfortable inside the trailer in hot or cold weather even after I insulated the floor. I think there needs to be some type of insulation on both sides of the aluminum frame to prevent it from transferring extreme temps as much. I have a few videos on my channel showing what I replaced it with, it’s an OEV Camp-X truck camper, so not similar at all to the ATC, but it works better for what I need right now.

[@gregparrott]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks Camp-X truck camper...Nice choice. I had a FourWheel popup camper on my '69 Chevy C20. I've since bought a Ford, long bed, swapped the bed for a flatbed, and am attempting to build my own popup camper for it. For simplicity and versatility, it will be a shell, with removable features for camping, cargo carrying (ATV), etc. As much as I'd like a toy hauler, they're very expensive, too much so unless you use them a lot. I get by with just a trailer for hauling - camp stoves, generators, water containers, heaters, ice chests/refrig., tents, shower components, gas cans, etc., depending on what fits the occasion.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

That sounds like an interesting project, I’m really thinking about building my own camper, or buying a hard side shell to finish myself. I had this Camp-X on a 2020 Ram and sold it so now it’s on my 98 Dodge with a flatbed and it doesn’t fit as well, a flatbed specific camper would be much better now.

[@joemeyer2726]

All truck manufacturers require weight distribution hitches for all trailers 5000 pounds and more you are clearly overweight and I do not see a weight distribution hitch so of course it will not tow well since you are not towing correctly

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I understand the need for a weight distribution hitch and I planned on installing one but decided not to keep the trailer. I guess I was trying to say that I still prefer the way a fifth wheel tows vs. bumper pull even with using a weight distribution hitch as I have used them on other trailers in the past.

[@joemeyer2726]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks Your responses inconsistent with your posting of the review stating that the handling was very poor when in fact it was because he did not have a weight distribution hitch which was it you know you didn’t want to keep the trailer so you didn’t buy a weight distribution hitch even though legally that is required for you posted a poorly thought out review without understanding that you were breaking the law?

[@joemeyer2726]

Trailer should always be parked so that the hot west facing sun is directly on your awning of course if you park your ET see where the sun is directly shining on metal metal will absorb the heat no kidding

[@joemeyer2726]

It was your ear and not ordering with full insulation package

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

I understand they have the full insulation package as an option but there wasn’t any other trailers available when I bought mine so I decided to buy it and have the insulation added instead of waiting for a custom ordered trailer which would take considerable time. Also mine was the last one they had available that was delivered from the factory with a complete interior and generator due to manufacturing shortages.

[@joemeyer2726]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks He posted a review complaining about no insulation when you say now that you knew it did not have insulation that you bought it anyway? None of this makes any sense why wouldn’t you either buy a trailer with insulation or at least not post criticism about supposedly poor quality when you didn’t pay for insulation but I thought you were getting insulation?

[@tyrone-tydavis5858]

Looking at this type of trailer you should have looked at Airstream. Great great trailers but the biggest problem they have is you can't take it in extreme heat or extreme cold. If you're gonna have those kind of problems with an Airstream which has been around forever (which means they've had time to figure it out if it can be solved and and obviously they can't) and even though they cost 9 arms and a leg........ you're gonna have those kind of problems with anything of similar construction. Don't get me started about the constant condensation in cold weather.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Sounds like you have experience with an Airstream? I do not but I think they appear to be very well built. I have wondered about condensation in them though because it seems like they aren’t insulated very well or at least have a lot of thermal transfer areas. Mostly I wanted a toy hauler so I didn’t look at an Airstream seriously.

[@tyrone-tydavis5858]

@@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks I had one years ago. Now , like you, I'm looking for a toy hauler. BTW... For anyone who is interested, don't buy an Airstream without buying a rivot gun....constant problem. Like everything else, you have to be willing to take the good with the bad. To me, their best features are fit/finish and quality of materials.

[@Pioneer_Classic_Trucks]

Interesting, thanks for the info!