ATF or 80W90 gear oil in an LT230? Part 2

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[@RussTNails-fw9ds]

I find if I put the transfer case in neutral and the gearbox in any gear when I am warming up the engine,when the engine is warm the gears change nice and smooth because they get lubed up before you move ,i do this summer or winter in my disco and my defender 300 tdi .I am old fashioned I don't believe in stressing cold parts especially if towing. This only works for lever activated transfer cases no good in solinoid activated new model vehicles 😮😊.great show thanks.Theres no one out there like you 😊😊😊😊😊😊

[@graham-martin5847]

i cured the problem with levers being stuck i extended the stick like the series ones even used a red series nob this solved all the shifting problems

[@kevinreeves6875]

Btw Mike I do enjoy videos and you have a great knowledge on landies and I leave learned a lot from you. Tks

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Glad to hear it

[@jameskerr5756]

Good test Mike. So the gear oil is the winner.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

It sure is

[@thechod]

Thanks mike, ive put in atf so will report back when i change the oil next

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Sounds good

[@b4-996]

I've been running 10W40 in my early LT77 for years, no problemo there!

[@RCapricot]

I have to point out that the input and output speeds are tied together at a certain ratio - whatever the ratio of the current gearset is. So if the output slowed down a bit, that must mean the input has also slowed down. If you were to redo the test and measure the input and output speeds carefully, I guarantee you would find that they would always keep the same ratio. Still, very interesting experiment.

[@merykjenkins3274]

I imagine you could connect a cheap ammeter to the motor. Any difference in amps would indicate the drag in the gearbox. Another good difference would be decibels. We are always whining about the loudness of these gearboxes (I have a '68 2A 109), and you can do that on a smartphone. Thanks for the videos, I get a great deal out of them and greetings from down under!

[@dannydavis1964]

Good video, very interesting, thanks, Danny.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Glad you enjoyed it

[@gchubb]

Thanks for sharing. Interesting experiment.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Thanks for watching!

[@daviddooley9913]

Great test! Thanks for doing, as always.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

My pleasure!

[@stevengardener2959]

Looking at the setup, the motor, shaft and transfer box is a solid linkage i.e. no clutch or other "slipping" parts. So if you ran the motor at 1900rpm both times, what caused the difference in output rpm between the 2 tests?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

You tell me!

[@stevengardener2959]

Let's put it down to all that oil sloshing around; must have got some on your rev counter and made it slip @@BritannicaRestorations 😉

[@nickboylen6873]

The oil may have enough drag that the same electrical power results in a lower output rpm, but it would also have to result in a lower motor rpm - the motor and gear box rpm ratios are fixed, so one being slower would dictate the other slowing by the same percentage.

[@453421abcdefg12345]

This oil spec thing is a nightmare! I have just changed oil in my LT230, (TD5 Defender) transfer box after 15 years of trouble free silent use, on researching what oil I should use the forums recommended an ATF type fluid, which I used,(Castrol Transmax Manual), within 50 miles the transfer box was so noisy I ordered a new box from Ashcroft, he recommends EP 80-90, which I have now refilled the old box with, it is now less noisy, but still not right, so I am waiting for the new box to arrive, just why the oil change should have had such a dramatic fail in just 50 miles is a mystery, the noise sounds like too tight a mesh, but it has been quiet for 135,000 miles? I came to the conclusion not to change gearbox oils ! Chris B.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Problem (or good thing) with ATF is it is like a flushing oil, and can wash out all sorts of dirt and debris which sometimes cushions the synchros

[@453421abcdefg12345]

@@BritannicaRestorations I think the flushing out of crud is the only good use for ATF on these boxes Mike, it also finds any leaks you may have, especially in the 40 C degs temps we have here. I have been told that Swepco 202 Moly 75/90 is the very best oil to use, have you used that ? Chris B.

[@morganhill6200]

Perhaps going to test with atf in mine, never to old to learn 👍

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I have not tested this under load - be careful!

[@termonostruman]

imam usinh testing it it has been 7 year under load, less wear,, i can enagage it better,, wear is less but had a noise that is icreasing veey small but i have the noise for about 15 years.. now iam gonna join hight pressure antifiction in aft..yo see if noise goes away.. i want to remove the wear...tottally

[@vic6820]

Knowing the leakiness of the 230, the thicker oil would be preferable, especially when up to temperature.

[@kevinreeves6875]

Here in Johannesburg South Africa in summer the air temp can reach 40deg c my transfer box in a tdi 90 can get very hot with highway driving, so hot in fact you can smell the ep 90. My guess is the transfer box is getting to 60 plus deg c and you can smell it in the cockpit. I recently had the gearbox and transfer box rebuilt and I now put 85w 145 in and it does not smell when hot. I also use this oil in my series 2a as it's thicker and does not Leak. I will check to see what the difference is between ep and w. I know ep is extreme pressure and I think it contains sulphur and phosphorus additives. Not sure about the w additives. Anyway the extra virtuosity of the 145 is a big advantage here.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

We ran a Roamerdrive on a 200Tdi in summer and after in less than an hour it was over 100C - highway use

[@davidyendoll5903]

I thought EP stood for Extreme Pong !

[@machiningbasics1729]

I’d bet atf probably leaks out abit faster too hey Mike ! Brilliant video very informative!

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Hold on! ATF seems to be a lot kinder to components like O rings and seals

[@BrianM0OAB]

I'll stick with the gear oil, nice test, only change the weight for different climates.

[@MrRobmellor]

Hi Mike. Over the years of going to auctions and buying all sorts of rubbish, I found that I had lots of tubes of additives of different kinds. amongst them was PTFE meant for transmission, and loads of engine oil additives that were/are very sticky and thick. I have put some of them in noisy diffs, and some in transfer-boxes. Have you had any good use with additives in transmission use that you could recommend. One thing that I did was to leave red diesel in a gear-box to clean it out before I got round to rebuilding it. I found that the seals had gone nice and soft, like new due to the soaking in the diesel. What do you reckon. is that a idea for an experiment??????. Best wishes, from Yorkshire Rob.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Yes I have used a lot of snake oils in the past, but I was not really impressed. You cannot put metal back on synchros or selectors to make them better

[@googlegok9637]

I think this qualifies for a PhD . I agree ATF could do a good cleaning but I would under load use LR commendations . While viscosity is important I am surprised few questioned the quality and additives . LR recommend a GL4 or 5 that contains sulfur and as I understand is important protection . Does ATF contain these additives? Test clearly show that ATF does not have that same film strength as engine or gear oil. When you get away with it in the r380 or an automatic , must be because you feed the oil from a pump?

[@HP-mz1id]

Nice test I have a question. My Disco 2 TD5 has no Power under 2000 RPM and it sits on bigger Tires. What can i do to change this? I want mor power on the lower RPM range. Gear change in the LT 230, ore gear change at the axel?

[@frank-lr]

Mike, what's your opinion on "synthetic" vs. "mineral"? In our Puma Land Rover used a synthetic 75W-90 for both transfer case and diffs. Any benefit other than the higher price? ;-)

[@jamescaron6465]

As you mentioned, ATF sounds like it would make a good break in oil But in the Alabama Heat, I think I will stick to gear oil for "normal" use. Honestly, I think your test is fine, you are comparing apples to apples with everything being equal, or at least as equal as possible.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

However, ATF is used in the R380 and LT77 gearbox, so what is the difference? They are helical gears not hypoid which has a lot more shear Just asking for a friend...

[@alfredsteidle5035]

Mike, I remember this old discovery Chassis.....I thought you had the Idea to make a test stand......maybe I'm wrong ? But anyway.....you can test all the components 😅. End on the End you can put load on it, ......however ...as I know you , you sure have good idea.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I do not have an engine

[@alfredsteidle5035]

You can make a generator and use the water for heating......

[@iceman9678]

I may do the ATF change in my r380 and transfer box. It would simplify things.

[@shuntershunters8971]

just for info I have a temp sensor on my Defender 300TDI LT230 running on 80W90 temperature after about 3 hours on the road 90km/hr is around 78C, in soft sand after a couple of hours the temp can be over 90C quite easily.

[@Bouwentjes]

You could measure the input power to the motor, when comparing same output speed with different oils.

[@philipburrows]

What about axle oil is it sae 80 or 90? Because I always thought that you put axle oil in the transfer box.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Check out the shear factor of oil in a helical gears and hypoid gears as in differentials

[@SiCrewe]

I'm struggling to see a good reason to deliberately use ATF in the transfer case. I've had cars that required ATF in the gearbox and putting a thicker oil in made the gear-change AWFUL so I'm aware of the difference it can make but I'm struggling to think of how it might improve a transfer case. As I said before, I wonder if it has some benefit for people who spend a lot of time with the diff locked, or something? Honestly, I suspect most people just use it 'cos, if they're sticking it in the gearbox as well, it's one less can of oil to carry around, or keep in the garage.

[@kevm8965]

So what was your final decision, would you use 80/90 or ATF?

[@BritannicaRestorations]

75W90 if you can find it - I can only get 80w90 in 20L pails

[@bimble7240]

Hello Mike, can you say if the LT230s run hotter that other transfer boxes? and does the box in this test have the enlarged sump with cooling fins like Ashcroft offer? If not, how much difference doyou think they make they make?

[@kenvanmoorhem8280]

Thanks for the test Mike Loved seeing it! Would love to see the same test on the r380 with no oil cooler, with just the simple pipe cooler, and with a small radiator up front

[@BritannicaRestorations]

The extended sump made a few degrees difference - but not eye watering - the extended sump is in some of my LT230 test videos. I was not that impressed - considering that extending the sump, put it closer to the exhaust...

[@bimble7240]

@@BritannicaRestorations Thank you for the info. I must have missed the video you mentioned. I will go back and look for it.

[@keithgraham8906]

It’s a pity you did not have an amp meter on the motor to tell the difference in drag between the to ,more mpg with the atf I’ll bet.

[@evanjones2539]

Only change from recomended oil for me, would be, 75w90 but full synthetic....

[@ivorscruton5121]

Had a Land Cruiser with 980 000 km, using 80W90 mineral oil in both the gearbox and transfer, changed according to Toyota's recommendations. When disassembled, there was no wear beyond specifications, so I question the use of synthetic oil being superior, at least from a cost point of view.

[@bigm383]

@@ivorscruton5121I think the push for synthetic oils is from the environmental protection folk, enabling manufacturers to recommend extended periods between oil changes, hence less waste oil. I could be wrong!😁

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I think you are right - remember why we change oils - contamination and breakdown of additives

[@bigm383]

@@BritannicaRestorations Harley Davidson has gone fully synthetic for all lubricants, with long service intervals, but plenty of old Harley riders reckon that even the cheapest mineral oil of the same weight is better, when changed frequently. Plus the waste oil can be sent to Mike’s oil burner!

[@RussTNails-fw9ds]

Got to pay the bills customers come first 😊

[@tazmeadows2925]

What about atf in clutch have you tryed it

[@BritannicaRestorations]

Good oil to use - bugger to bleed

[@hyhgtsssassfilj]

What’s the difference in protective lubrication between the two? If one protects much better than the other that’s what I’d be worried about.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

ATF is used in the gearbox - so what is the difference?

[@defeyago]

​@@BritannicaRestorationsthe gearbox has an oil pump, transfer case doesn't.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

The gearbox has a pump because the mainshaft is hollow and has to be to get oil to the needle rollers - there are none in the LT230

[@defeyago]

@@BritannicaRestorations that's why TC doesn't use ATF. It needs EP oil.

[@secpac58chichi]

Why would you ever put ATF in a transfer box ? you put ATF in an automatic transmission and you could run atf in your engine with oil so you could do some crankcase cleaning running it for a few hundred miles but you don't clean a transfer case that way - you drain the gear oil and blast it with brake cleaner and let that drip out and then refill with gear oil

[@defeyago]

ATF used to be used on the R380 gearbox (now MTF94). LT230 needs EP (extreme pressure) oil 80W90. It's so wrong to use ATF on the transfer case.

[@RussTNails-fw9ds]

If it doesn't leak its empty 😅😊

[@Stephen-wc8fn]

I’m a tiny bit worried about cavitation using ATF. If the cavitation occurs in a chaotic manner (ie in different locations like wandering tornadoes) then that’s okay, but what if the cavitation happens in a fixed spot all day every day? That said, in either case I think the amount of heat generated is marginal and quickly dissipated through the surrounding steel.

[@EricaMTB]

EP90W GL5. Temperature has nothing to do with it. Maintaining oil film to prevent metal contact is the aim.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

So with that argument, should you not use it in a transmission?

[@EricaMTB]

@@BritannicaRestorations the fluid in an automatic transmission has to allow friction between clutch packs and bands. It also has to have a viscosity that allows pumping and flow through the value bank. It's a compromise on lubrication. Don't use it on gears designed for EP.

[@BritannicaRestorations]

I am talking manual transmission LT77 and R380