Atheist Debates - Prophecy Part 1

[@cjdennis149]

I've been looking for a simple list, so here it is! 1. Must be made before the event it predicts 2. Must be intended to be a prediction 3. Must be an extraordinary prediction, not a mundane one 4. Must be answerable by a single clear occurrence or set of occurrences 5. Must not be open to interpretation 6. Must be publicly known and not have people actively working to fulfil it

[@seans4893]

“The main purpose of prophecy is to build confidence in the source. The con job.” You just blew my mind Matt. Love it!

[@eddypasatrino2039]

THANK YOU for this video Matt ! My mother has recently become obsessed with the prophecy argument and now thanks to you i can finally debunk this ridiculous claim that many Christians will make.

[@Botzu]

these atheist debates videos are really good.

[@screw0dog]

Come for the counter-apologetics, stay for the tips on eating steak.

[@screw0dog]

And the Wargames reference.

[@qanon9917]

Matt. You WILL go down as a great philosopher. Whether you like it or not. Outstanding.

[@llongone2]

As they say, "Nothing fails like prayer...except prophecy. Prophecy also fails pretty fucking hard"

[@greendragonreprised6885]

Matt, Here a little trick you can use in a debate if the issue of prophecy comes up. I can't remember where I saw this but it's not my own idea, it may have been one of Richard Dawkins' lectures. Ask your audience if any of them are prophets. None will come forward. Then say you can identify the person with the 'prophetic ability'. Ask everyone to stand. Get out a coin and tell your audience you're going to toss it and those who prophesy heads should raise their left arm and those who prophesy tails their right. Toss the coin, tell people which side came up and ask those who predicted the other to sit down. Repeat, telling people they can change their prophesy for the next toss. Again tell those who got it wrong to sit down. In an audience of 100 it takes around 6 coin tosses to get down to the last person, who you can announce has prophesied something that was 64/1 against. There is always one person standing of course It's quicker to do than to explain.

[@ThePharphis]

it was in an online video with Dawkins and children :D I watched it almost a year ago and occasionally people comment on my comment. No idea on the video title, but it was fantastic

[@greendragonreprised6885]

ThePharphis Thanks. I saw it ages ago as well and couldn't quite remember it, but it seemed appropriate to the subject here.

[@Firstwho]

George Forsyth Here is the problem with your "experiment" - if someone has read the bible. Clearly the inventor of this "concept" has not it would remind them of the temptation that satan made of Jesus Christ. I know thinking that the atheist has actually read the bible is the key and that is hard to find. You will not find "testing" of god in the bible. Coin flipping etc is not in line with the bible or what it teaches. The only place God says you can test him is in Malachi through tithes and offerings but I really do not think atheists are going to be big on giving money to "test" God. Of course George I am speaking of things in the bible and that may be something you are completely ignorant in understanding.

[@greendragonreprised6885]

Tom Bailey The Bible, in any of its versions is completely irrelevant to the demonstration. It shows that in a crowd of 100 people one will, on the basis of chance alone, appear to have the power of prophesy which they do not, and by inference neither do any of the people who claim to or on whose behalf such a claim is made. I didn't think I'd need to point that out.

[@oO_ox_O]

Tom Bailey Wow, the point of the demonstration went straight over your head. It's about something similar to the sharpshooter fallacy.

[@BigRalphSmith]

Thanks for this video, Matt. Clear, concise, thorough as usual.

[@Torvar]

The FSM has informed me that this video will get more likes than dislikes.

[@mrteachermic3346]

Holy cow you're right! Look out everyone looks like the FSM has some good fulfilled prophesy right here :D

[@charlx8979]

fsm be praised! torva is the prophet of his noodliness

[@RuminatingRaptor]

Here it is, four years later, and I liked this video. You're obviously a prophet of the FSM.

[@stuboy261]

This is the thing i love when it comes to this type of subject, the amount of structured, organized, logical research that goes into forming these conclusions. I have never met or even heard of someone that advocates for a prophecy that has done a fraction of the research that has gone into this video. Let me put it another way because i love the irony: People claim to take their beliefs seriously and claim to want other people to take them seriously, but its only when other people respect that and do take it seriously that they come to learn just how seriously the believer doesn't take their beliefs and the believers shoot themselves in the foot because the other person has taken it seriously and has come to the conclusion that the believer is wrong, ignorant for believing without being serious and deluded for being under the impression that they did take it seriously in the first place.

[@ThePharphis]

I rarely run into prophecy arguments but if I do I'll save myself the time and effort and just link to this video. Great job!

[@douglasrasmussen480]

The logic and rational dissection of prophecy presented in this video is flawless. However, it is also on a level that far exceeds both the capacity and receptiveness of most believers. Believers I have engaged with frequently admonish me to accept the "truth" but are nearly impervious to my response that seeking truth must also involve acknowledging that which is false.

[@nofaithrequired859]

It would be nice to have a video or list of Biblical prophecies that Christians use and the refutation of those claims.

[@heavymeddle28]

Yea I've been thinking about the same 😊

[@Johnhasa1]

Have you found one yet?

[@andresclaudio8071]

Yes pls

[@curtiscurtis.jokester.nobl8089]

Thanks Bro, your hard work is really appreciated, and please keep up the great work

[@Kickboxingaro91]

Thank u for all u do Matt ! Smart people like u is what the world needs !

[@dtdyvr]

Thank you Matt - excellent work, as usual!

[@SiriusMined]

Great video, and I especially loved the Wargames ending :-)

[@juicer67]

Thank you, Matt. This video will be of great help to me in a current debate with a Christian apologist.

[@JeremyMcCandlish]

not for myself for when I re-watch this around 10:00 to 14:00 you say some amazing stuff. Not new, but amazing.

[@douggale5962]

Nice editing! Great video.

[@ShadowOfMaedhros]

This must have been captured by a real high quality mic. Even Matt's swallowing sound comes through loud and clear.

[@aprilk141]

One of my favorite movie quotes, "sometimes the magic works and sometimes it doesn't".

[@therealjammit]

I have psychic dyslexia. I foretell of events that happened in the past with a 10% accuracy.

[@moodyplus]

Hahahah!

[@ThePharphis]

I think I'll be stealing this joke

[@indignant99]

Man, you're a really bad prophet, even backwards. Only 10% accuracy. DOH!

[@pdoylemi]

Jammit Timmaj The sad thing is how real this is. I have a good friend who thinks she has premonitions. I asked her to record these, so that we could discover if there was anything to them. She told me that she did not know if they were premonitions until after the events happened. Confirmation bias anyone?

[@ThePharphis]

Pat Doyle thanks for reminding me to steal this joke :D

[@Lonesome.Cowboy]

01:46 "If intelligent design is creationism in a lab coat, prophecy is prediction in a frock." 😂🤣😂

[@Bobbotov]

It is easier to con someone than it is to convince them they have been conned.

[@Paxsali]

Off topic / for the record: the probability of correctly guessing 40 cointosses in a row is one in 2 to the power of 40. Two to the power of forty - that is a number which is greater than a 32-bit processor can address bytes in it's memory. The probability for guessing 400 cointosses correct in a row is one in 2 to the power of 400 (or 2582249878086908589655919172003011874329705792829223512830659356540647622016841194629645353280137831435903171972747493376). If you think that is a huge number, you are right. The number of seconds passed since the big bang, 13.8 bil years ago, is roughly "only" about 435196800000000000. I'm not even sure whether this number may even be bigger than the number of planck seconds that have passed after the big bang.

[@SiriusMined]

"that is a number which is greater than a 32-bit processor can address bytes in it's memory" Well, as an integer. :-)

[@nitehawk86]

"If you think that is a huge number, you are right." A wonderful understatement. :)

[@neddyladdy]

SiriusMined Can a computer memory be addressed using anything other than integers ? No.

[@oO_ox_O]

***** IEEE 754

[@SiriusMined]

o_O haha thanks. I was going to post it, but thanks for doing it for me :-) ***** - you are incorrect, see o_O's post

[@Poseidon6363]

Great video, thanks

[@AGodForTheAtheist]

Prophecy is actually product of evidence logic and reasoning… It doesn’t take a genius to prophecy that doing harmful stupid things will result in harmful consequences…

[@madsras42]

Good stuff. Keep up the good work.

[@bryangranneman9141]

Is there a part 2? Can't seem to find it... I'd like to see you walk through some of the prophecies that some Christians swear by. Like the statue that represents the world leaders prophesied in Daniel, and the prophecies of Israel.

[@VaughanMcCue]

6 years late - nope

[@Jacob7393]

Another great video, Matt. I also watched The System, as well as the faith healer exposé, from Darren Brown. I had never heard of him, but now I'm hooked on his stuff! Thanks again for the continual content.

[@Victor-gy4gj]

"faith healer expose" Those words seem very foolish. That is what the world calls a "sweeping generalization" which is a fallacy that is frowned upon in logic and reasoning is it not? All this fancy rhetoric has blinded many to the reality of this hypocrisy. It holds no water from any viewpoint.

[@Jacob7393]

Is it a logical fallacy for me to "generalize" that all the people who think Star Wars is literal and that the Force is real are delusional? No, because all evidence points toward that generalization being true across the board. When an extraordinary claim lacks not only extraordinary evidence, but even just simple, minimal evidence, then it is the duty of every rational thinker to reject that claim. This applies to Star Wars, spirituality, and every aspect of life. Here's what it boils down to. Do you have any verifiable evidence of a faith healing taking place? Surely something so miraculous, and which takes place every day, has to be recorded or documented.

[@Victor-gy4gj]

+Jacob Stamm Science does not evaluate the supernatural. The supernatural evaluates science. Otherwise everything could be clearly explained to the world without doubt.

[@Jacob7393]

That is an unfalsifiable claim, like Russel's Teapot, but let's assume that's true. Even a supernatural occurrence like a healing taking place, by necessity of it taking place in the "natural realm", would be observable. Cancer supernaturally cured? Cool! You can still go in with a scan afterwards and see that the cancer is gone. Now we've established that even supernatural events, insofar as they interact with the natural, must be observable naturally as well. So, why is it that there aren't mountains of evidence and records of supernatural healings taking place? Why is it that every healing that takes place at the hands of faith healers only ever heals conditions that are conveniently invisible? Why won't faith healers heal missing limbs or chronic acne or broken legs? I ask you again to provide me a single bit of verifiable evidence of such a faith healing taking place.

[@Victor-gy4gj]

+Jacob Stamm That's alot of textbook knowledge to say you don't know yourself.

[@pjkempen7413]

I have a number of dear christians who put a lot of stock in prophecy and won't listen to logical arguments to refute prophecy as evidence. I look forward to your detailed examination of claims of fulfilled prophecy. When can we expect part 2?

[@6chhelipilot]

You haven't correctly predicted that the 'end times' are upon us, if Jesus continually fails to show up. He has failed to show up, ever since he told his disciples: "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Matthew 16:28 So, either that's a failed prediction, by Jesus, or some of his disciples are still alive. hmmmm.

[@Jamie-Russell-CME]

Its called the Transfiguration, look it up. This was a typology of the actual second coming. This is consistent with both testaments. Jesus was seen by 3 of his disciples "on the holy mountain, in glory" and He was seen as the disciples woke up out of a state of sleeping (reference to the final church, Laodicea, predicted in the first part of Revelation) and Christ is seen with Moses and Elijah. Elijah was taken to heaven before dying and Moses died before entering the promised land but Michael fought Satan over his body and then he was specially resurrected. These two represent the bible, "the law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah). This is also a title for the bible. Also known as the "Word of God" (Jesus Christ). Moses and Elijah are the two greatest witnesses a Jew could have asked for, and these two also represent the types of believers raptured at the second coming, "Those who are alive will not preceed those who have fallen asleep. But the dead in Christ shall rise first at the last trump. And we who are alive and remain shall be caught up with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And we will forever be with the Lord."

[@6chhelipilot]

***** "My go-to question for people is: What would people who heard Jesus say this think he meant?" If he actually said that, at all. Which is the other serious problem that Christianity has. It's difficult to verify anything that Jesus supposedly said if your only collaborating evidence is just a couple of obscure passages in documents that had much more to say about more 'ordinary' individuals. Christian's actually have an answer for that. They'll say that Paul saw over 500 people who said that they saw Jesus alive after he was crucified. You can see the problem with that argument, can't you.

[@AndrewWilsonStooshie]

Read the whole of Matthew 24. It is quite clearly about the end times and not the transfiguration. "And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." - Mat 24:14

[@6chhelipilot]

Andrew Wilson Luke 4: 5 King James Bible "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time." Acts 17:6 "But when they did not find them, they dragged Jason and some other believers before the city officials, shouting: "These men who have caused trouble all over the world have now come here," Depends on what you take the "whole world" to mean.

[@joman388]

6ch: Some believe Jesus was referring to His transfiguration,which happened within the year.thanks

[@snatchngrab8262]

Mr. Dillahunty... I have seen you on the Atheist Experience for many years, watched two of your debates, and recently tuned in to this channel. I binged watched many videos upon my new arrival. I have one thought with two prongs. The format of you speaking to the camera has a pro and con. As a pro, it can be listened to like a podcast. I can play your videos while doing other things, including driving. You could narrate audiobooks. But the con is that your productions do not have visual learning aspects. Flowcharts, diagrams, graphics, etc. This kind of thing would open a whole new world for your productions.

[@FiniteAtticus]

Thanks for the advice about the steaks! I prophecy that you will make another video... soon... and that I will like it.

[@Johnhasa1]

To be a prediction to be considered carefully: 1. Prophecy must be extraordinary 2. Prophecy must be falsefiable

[@brigham2250]

From the book The Searchers by Alan Le May (Chapter 10, p.65, Pinnacle Books, March 2013) An evil prophecy is always fulfilled, if you put no time limit upon it; fulfilled quite readily, too, if you are a child counting little misfortunes as disasters.

[@thedancingveganatheist6310]

Should be required viewing for anyone studying logic, philosophy, religion, or even sociology.

[@djNemo72]

Thanks, Matt!

[@ryannewland5572]

hey matt you may (and if you can) put your "teleprompter" near the camera so that way you have much more of direct eye contact with your audience. itll help you get the idea across than the "what the hell is he looking at ?" or " he must not be THAT serious about the subject he is speaking of." or "his attention is faded... should i keep listening or should i move on ?" just thought id help you. either way great video and awesome information.

[@philipinchina]

Thank you for this, Matt. I listened right through and am now listening for the second time. My late mother could make the most amazing predictions. Some were spot on but most were hopelessly wrong! Chuck enough shit at a wall and some of it will stick. Another technique was say a neighbour had a baby. It's a boy and she would then say that she knew it would be. The third source of accuracy was making her prophecies so vague that they could always be claimed to be accurate. Keep up the excellent work.

[@gregbalteff1529]

brilliant matty ....nicely said

[@jamesschaefer7530]

What about weather predictions/prophecies? I see it all the time on TV. Sometimes a.week in advance.

[@NathanaelADavis]

Liked before even watching

[@cseguin]

Bible prophecy has got to be the weakest form of argumentation any theist could adopt . . . why they think this is somehow persuasive puzzles me . . .

[@therealjammit]

And lo, in chapter 5, page 9 of the holy Harry Potter...

[@Ashalmawia]

it's more of an excuse than a reason. grasping at straws, it's the best they have.

[@moneymikz]

Plus Tyre is still here, you can google earth it

[@Cthulhu013]

Is there any strong argument they've adopted? Sarcasm.

[@cseguin]

David W Indeed . . . indeed . . .

[@todbeard8118]

Good job again Matt. That's funny Jammit Timaj.

[@lagodifuoco313]

Great analysis. "Underlings" also has a great video on this.

[@linguaphile9415]

I loved the accumulation of r-sounds at 12:28 XD

[@diroxmusic5433]

Because of the law of large numbers predicting a coin toss 4000 times would be astronomically stupendously fantasmic.

[@Mariomario-gt4oy]

Great video Matt! Thanks!

[@alwaysincentivestrumpethic6689]

Great stuff Matt

[@ThomasJDavis]

I thought it was interesting how you talked about God being a con artist. One of the reasons Mormon apologists will use (quite honestly to speculate) in favor of the validity of the Book of Abraham is that Joseph Smith was inspired by God to write whatever got written, even though the writing wasn't actually a translation of the characters on the papyrus, AND even if Joseph THOUGHT he was translating Egyptian characters. The papyrus was just a catalyst for revelation. But Joseph honestly felt that he WAS translating ancient Egyptian characters into English, as the documentation seems to be pretty clear on. So why would God let Joseph THINK he was translating when he was really just receiving inspiration? Why not just reveal the Book of Abraham without deceiving Joseph as He had allegedly done for the revelations in the Doctrine and Covenants?

[@drawnsteelhero3269]

+Thomas Davis Joseph Smith honestly felt there was profit in prophesy.

[@GeneralZod99]

"When it comes to appeals to prophecy, the only winning move is not to play." How about a nice game of chess?

[@andrewliamdesigndevelopment]

Also, we can look at many science fiction writing that describe technologies before their time, but does that necessarily lead to the conclusion that those entire books are validated and we must believe the whole of it is true..? I believe this is the part whole fallacy (or composition fallacy), which Matt may discuss here, but I’m only 8 minutes in.

[@matthewlong3716]

Nice quote/call out to Wargames at the end.👍

[@SteveEwe]

Atheist Debates - Prophecy Part 2??? Matt, you slackin'!

[@cohendavidson3510]

Seems you make a very good standing of how to identify a falsifiable prophecy. It is interesting that we do not see these things come up as support as often. I really do think this issue is quite important, however. The prophecies are quite specific and notable and do seem to stand the test you pose. The specificity in the prophesies are fulfilled in the gospels and history. I would love to speak!

[@clarencejeffcoat5441]

A problem I see with prophecy is free will. The future would be unsure unless all individuals involved were guided exactly to fulfill the prophecy. This would null the aspect of free will if there is an agent guiding you to a certain end.

[@Wildduckcluster]

Another great vid, keep it up! 👍

[@TheDrunkardHu]

haven't had enough to drink for this... i'll be back later...

[@efthimios1917]

Second part?

[@farvision]

A prediction does not have to be before the event. For example, consider an orbit in space. One could take previous data from 1900 to 1950 to predict the location that we should have observed a planet in 1980. The important thing is that the prediction not use the later data.

[@daviddumbledore]

You are good! Thank you for doing this.

[@piercemchugh4509]

Prophecy is an interesting concept, because now we are admitting that God wants to reveal proof that he exists for everyone and anyone. However, you would think there would be a better and easier way to do this than a bunch of random and vague predictions akin to a magic trick in structure of presentation, with no time limit or one clear interpretation. Just send out pamphlets or personally appear to everyone. Or use technology and get with the times. Jehovah's Witnesses can come to my doorstep, why can't God? Especially if it is so important.

[@filipimaciel4006]

Matt, a prophecy that became true without any information about how the source is able to predict, is something like answer a math test just selecting some alternatives and not justify, so i can't know if the person is just guessing the question or if actually know how to solve that problem. Is something like this?

[@Slizzard73]

These videos are extremely helpful. I always learn something new from them. Thanks Matt :)

[@RickPletcher54]

Matt, I love the 50s-60s décor.

[@chriswest6652]

i want to believe in Matt not Mathew but this notion that if the source of the propheys xant be scientificaly varified ,I find unconvincing. peace.

[@mastercloud977]

i feel bad that Matt has often not received his steak the way he ordered it. Matt, come hang out with me and I will cook you a good medium rare steak.

[@Polite_Cat]

This was a great video. I quite enjoyed it. However, I do have a question. This is supposedly made possible by the patreon project, but I'm not so sure that I fully understand why it would cost so much money to do such a series of videos. Matt and the other crew routinely do an hour TV show as well as podcasts, etc for free on a regular basis. Why is sitting in front of a camera for a half hour speaking from a script that probably didnt take any more then a couple hours at most to put together, given Matt's experience on this topic, worth all the money given via patreon? Dont get me wrong - I am a huge fan of the AETV as well as Matt's channel and everything he does and strives for. But I just dont see the justification for the patreon project when AETV, Nonprophets, and more is completely free all the time. That being said, I would also prefer the nice scenery that was seen in previous videos, rather than what looks like a hotel room wall in the background. I think Matt could also sit a little further back from the screen, as his face takes up an unusually large portion of the frame. It's like a permanent close-up of his face where we can see every hair, every imperfection on his body which seems unnecessary. Just my two cents. Regardless of what I've said here, I very much hope this series continues and the channel grows as much as possible, as I enjoy these educational videos very much.

[@namnack]

The beard was CGI..

[@fancygiraffe3340]

IMO it's not so much about how much a video costs to make (which is a little more than you might expect) but rather people paying for something they like. There are lots of patreons I support because I love their work and want to see more of it, or because I feel like I want to support the work the creator would do anyway. It's not like every person is giving him $2000 per video or something crazy like that. Rather a lot of people are giving him a relatively small amount of money each.

[@TheZooCrew]

*Why is sitting in front of a camera for a half hour speaking from a script that probably didnt take any more then a couple hours at most to put together, given Matt's experience on this topic, worth all the money given via patreon?* Because that's what the crowd has decided they're worth. I don't understand how so many people grossly misunderstand this. If people didn't think these videos were worth more than "free," then no donations would be made. *But I just dont see the justification for the patreon project when AETV, Nonprophets, and more is completely free all the time* Then don't donate. The content will still come out. I've seen a number of complaints along these lines, and once again...I just don't understand.

[@exodiathecoolone]

kekejojo1212 I was once one of Matt's Patreon supporters. When he launched his patreon, he clearly outlined that the money wasn't going just towards these KZbin videos, but to allow him to take the time to writing books and doing talks/debates etc.

[@Guitcad1]

In case you weren't aware, Matt was laid off from his job over a year ago and has been unable to find work in his professional field. (A simple Google search of his name is enough to convince many employers that he "just wouldn't fit in.") The Patreon videos are pretty much his only source of income right now.

[@jss302]

please make a part two

[@vickynaz8371]

I open fortune cookies to seek prophecy !

[@jss302]

Matt where's part 2??

[@joshuamusick2179]

Great video :)

[@MalachiMarvin]

You mentioned a Darrell Brown? Did I get that right? What video should I be looking for?

[@SteepDescent]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4OYgIqebNGogpY

[@screw0dog]

Derren Brown - he's a British mentalist. "The System" can be watched here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/b4OYgIqebNGogpY

[@22Sion]

Derren Brown

[@MalachiMarvin]

22Sion, thank you.

[@SteepDescent]

I gave you the link and you thank him?? grrr :p

[@Austinsairplanes]

Under the right conditions a coin toss is predictable. A group of scientists made a machine that could flip a coin and the get heads every time. given that if someone were to practice a lot that would take chance almost entirely out of the equation.

[@hamnchee]

I think a full-bearded Matt would be fairly badass.

[@m.m.3029]

22:40 He hit us with that Dr Who reference.

[@thetruthrover]

Where's part two?

[@glutinousmaximus]

The "End is nigh" doom and gloomers - I predict much egg on faces this year...

[@dystoniaify]

I can't find part 2. Can someone please respond with a link.

[@joelfry4982]

Many Christians are divided on matters of eschatology. And while I'm a theist (and not a Christian) I think this matter is important. Many of the prophesies in Daniel involve literal imagery. Chariots in Daniel are actual chariots, while the Book of Revelation is figurative. This means that the prophesies of Daniel probably do not refer to the same things as those in Revelation (but that's just an educated guess). Many Protestants believe the Beast (the one who rose out of the sea?) in Revelation was Nero, who was alive when the book was written, which would mean that that aspect of the book was not prophesy but warning.

[@AndrewWilsonStooshie]

"Many Protestants believe the Beast (the one who rose out of the sea?) in Revelation was Nero, who was alive when the book was written" What reason would they have to believe that? Many people believed it was Hitler. Some even Ronald(6) Wilson(6) Reagan(6) was the beast.

[@joelfry4982]

I have read that the name and title "Nero Emperor" could be calculated to 616, which was the original number of the beast. But I don't remember the method that was used.

[@nevzatkeles759]

The last words were the quotes 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

[@hyksos74]

With regard to the James Randi prize, it occurs to me that if you really are telepathic, telekinetic, clairvoyant or whatever, the best thing you could do for yourself is make sure other people don't find out...

[@Kyssifrot]

I have a hard time responding to one of my muslim friend who says that the prophet stated that muslims will have a huge empire and that happened, even though they were extremely weak at the time of the prophecy. What could I respond?

[@TheZooCrew]

+Kyssifrot I flipped a coin, said that Zeus told me it would land heads, and then it landed heads. All hail Zeus. Is that clear enough?

[@shanewilson7994]

+Kyssifrot Making a "prophecy" that your religion will one day be large and strong isn't really doing anything. If Islam had died out, then it wouldn't be a big deal. If it hadn't happened, but Islam was around, then it just hadn't happened yet. If the religion got big, then its a fulfilled prophecy. But its just their prophet pumping up the important of his religion. This isn't too different than the Christian prophecy that in the end days there will be mockers, and unbelievers. Any religion is always going to have that.

[@richardbowler1916]

Great video.

[@HectorTheCatVarietyChannel]

I always liked the "prophecy" of Tyre, Lebanon... lol

[@enkiea52]

Holy crap hes really gray now probably from the stress when he was arguing with nut cases.

[@nighthawk3797]

I agree with a lot of what you said in this video, however I think to say that even if there were very specific prophecies that were confirmed to come true(beyond what random chance would produce, self fulfilling prophecy kind of things ect...) that it still wouldn't be evidence for the faith in any way is going a bit too far(and if that is not what you meant I apologize for misunderstanding). I could see someone trying to make the case that it's weak evidence since we still don't know for sure that they got this information from God even if they say that they have, but I think it is still evidence for the faith on some level. I think that it gives some extra level of support to credence of these prophets claims compared to ones of other religions that don't necessarily have any verified prophecies.

[@Diviance]

No, it would be evidence for nothing more than the guy saw a portion of the future or got extremely lucky. His claims about where the prediction came from is another claim entirely and requires different evidence.

[@nighthawk3797]

Diviance Hmm...perhaps I should come at this another way that might help illustrate my point better. If you had to choose a religion to accept as true or put faith in, and that you still cared about it being true and wanted the best odds of it being correct, and only one of them had amazingly accurate prophecies that the prophets of the faith said they received from a supreme being, would you not then choose that one over the other options if all other things were equal? And if so, wouldn't that be because it looked at least slightly more likely to be a trustworthy faith to accept? And wouldn't that mean that it was(I agree first and foremost) evidence that they had an unusual access to knowledge about the future and on some other level evidence for that faith overall in that the others don't have this other extraordinary element as support?

[@Diviance]

Nighthawk Well, it would also depend on the religion itself as to whether it would look more trustworthy. For example, a religion whose deity doesn't interact with humanity suddenly having all of these prophets telling accurate future events would look extremely suspicious. Extremely suspicious.

[@rajantandon9002]

I predict that there will be a Atheist Debates - Prophecy Part 2. I also predict that my prediction will come true. Oh wait: it already has....

[@barrymead3358]

Just a minor point, prediction of 4000 coin tosses may seem amazing, it would not really be so great. The actual probability of guessing correctly is just 50/50 those odds do not change after a million guesses, so it is pure coincidence if someone did that very feat, guessing 4000 times right but in truth they have a 50% chance to be right every single time, but because people are amazed it was right so many times in total, they make more of it and assume some special ability and falsely assume a huge improbability of doing it so many times. But that original probability never changes just because. To highlight that, imagine once a month a friend,colleague etc asked you to guess the outcome/call it for a match, who buys the next round of drinks etc. If you were correct, then you would think no more of it, especially if after you get it right, someone else does, and with a few people taking turns, it won't be memorable. If after 25 years you still are doing it, it is a split second in time, inconsequential and not memorable, so you make nothing of it, yet if were to be asked 300 x in a row and got it right, that would seem amazing and improbable, yet in both cases you have correctly predicted the outcome 300 times in a row, just that in one scenario a lot of time and many events have happened between each. So the seemingly improbable is not necessarily so and it's just how the figures look that tricks people into the implications being momentous

[@Victor-gy4gj]

"Today we're going to take a look at prophecy" "The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets." 1 Corinthians 14:32 "Do not extinguish the Spirit. Do not treat prophecies with contempt, but test all things. Hold fast to what is good.…" 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21. You cannot possibly hope to accurately "analyze" something you don't understand. It is clear that you don't know what prophecy means in its entirety. That's a great deal of fancy rhetoric to say that you don't understand it yourself. This was entertaining if nothing else. "A plan in the heart of a man is like deep water, But a man of understanding draws it out." Proverbs 18:4

[@billkeon880]

the bible was written by superstitious people for superstitious people. It's handy for the biblical author to say 'if you don't agree with this concept, then you just don't understand - it's mysterious.' Anyone can push their own superstition using this method. Matt understands perfectly well what prophesy means. By the way, all the OT writings that were supplying prophesies to be fulfilled in the NT, and you have to ask yourself something. Since all the characters in the OT have been shown by Israeli archaeology to not have existed (moses, exodus, wandering, joshua's battles, noah, abraham...) and are all mythic, how are these "prophesies" fulfilled? All the NT writers knew the Septuagent OT very well, so for them to write vague passages that make some vague correlation is not impressive. In fact the stories and characters in the OT were often taken verbatim as templates or specific characters (and even verbatim wording in many cases) in the NT. The NT writers also used Homer and Virgil to construct their characters and stories. see Dennis Macdonald.

[@Victor-gy4gj]

"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."

[@AndrewWilsonStooshie]

That is the argument that all snake oil salesmen give to people who publicly doubt them.

[@Victor-gy4gj]

Bill Keon That was a whole lot of something to say a whole lot of nothing. See? I can say that too!

[@Victor-gy4gj]

Andrew Wilson It's not an argument. It's simply a discussion. At least on my side.

[@mysweaterlooksweird943]

Lol one of the things I was taught as a Roman Catholic is that one the reasons some people did not convert to Christianity is that a lot of Jewish people at that time were expecting an actual king resplendent with glory or whatever. So Catholica have to explain why Jesus was a "different" kind of king

[@UserBa]

8:20 , Chris Ramsay can predict coin tosses 100% accurate. Shall I worship him as my prophet?

[@FGuilt]

Its always easy to reverse engineer. Especially when you have an agenda...with a paycheck attached.

[@diroxreligion6586]

+F!@#Guilt Who's getting a paycheck now?

[@FGuilt]

DiroxReligion Apologists who post hoc explain the problems of their religion away. Book sales, fund raising, and conferences/speaking engagements.

[@diroxreligion6586]

+F!@#Guilt Ah k : )

[@reocejacobs1259]

Matt Dillahunty - The professional atheist 🎓👔👖💼

[@bowlsallbroken]

Here's what I generally tell people who make the whole "look at all the prophecies in the bible that came true!" argument. A genuinely impressive prophecy would have to meet *all* the following criteria, at minimum: It would need to specifically referred to as a prophecy It would need to be worded free from any vagary or anything else that supports multiple interpretations It would need to be reasonably specific as to the time and place of occurrence It would need to be reasonably specific as to the events that will transpire and/or predicted outcomes It cannot be of something that was obviously likely to happen, trivially predictable, or a common/mundane occurrence It cannot be of something that those that want the prophecy to be fulfilled could reasonably make to happen in some way Now, if you can show me something that meets *all* these criteria, although it wouldn't convince me by itself that Yaweh is real, I'm gonna start taking your claims *much* more seriously.

[@TheSnoopy1750]

My prophecy is that you will never get a single credible example from a theist. :-)

[@yakojjy]

Yo Matt D. You need to back up from the camera a little bit lol. You're too close, makin me feel uncomfortable lol

[@mikepublic111]

Wilbur Jenkins -- Yo Wilbur J. Back away from your monitor.

[@tussk.]

Matt, I'm a little surprised that you missed an easy target even as you spoke about it. You asked how the writers of the bible would be able to make predictions, then go on to say that they didnt, as the bible is in fact the given word of god. if thats the case, then it is no longer a prediction because god already knew what was going to happen, so it wasnt a prophecy, but a foretelling of pre-determined events.

[@Oswlek]

True, but whether god is predicting or causing, it still indicates advance knowledge of some kind.

[@tussk.]

its not prophecy to say 'im going to do this', and advanced knowledge of this kind cannot be considered prophecy in any case. you might as well look at a timetable and claim to have divined the coming of the 5:40 to london.

[@Oswlek]

tusskmusic The point of prophecy is simply to illustrate superior knowledge of some kind. Whether you possess that knowledge due to foresight or control doesn't really matter to the illustration. Regarding your example, if prophesy were legitimate, it would always seem rather ordinary from the perspective of the seer. A prophet offering a forecast provided by god is no different than you reading the schedule and "predicting" an arrival time. The differences manifest in the viewpoint of others. If you could find someone with no concept of scheduling or reading, then you consistently knowing when the next train would arrive would seem quite remarkable. This is one of the key points that Matt made. Just as knowing when the next train arrives doesn't give you an additional skill or make other things you say more likely to be correct. Even if a reliable prophet could be found, the cause for the insight would need to be testable for us to form any broad conclusions about it.

[@tussk.]

absolutely wrong. the point of prophecy is not to simply illustrate a superior knowledge, but it is to show that you have fore knowledge of future, and therefore unknowable, events. you cannot simply state that you know when youre going to do something and claim that it is prophecy. if you make a 'prediction' based on a prescribed event that only you can affect and nobody can prevent, then that is not prophecy or anything like it, it is simply stating an unavoidable fact. ergo, if the so called prophets were doing nothing more than writing down gods timetable verbatim, they were no more knowledgable than a child with a calender predicting the first day of spring. God saying to some dipshit 'Im going to kill that man in a weeks time and nothing can stop me, write it down' does not prophecy make.

[@Oswlek]

tusskmusic *but it is to show that you have fore knowledge of future, and therefore unknowable, events.* Agreed, but this doesn't refute my point, it just supplements it. *if you make a 'prediction' based on a prescribed event that only you can affect and nobody can prevent, then that is not prophecy or anything like it* Yes, if _you_ do. But that's because we know precisely the mechanism by which you actualized the event. In our hypothetical genuine prophet scenario, there is no obvious natural mechanism. Whether this illustrates god's ability to _know_ an outcome or to _control_ an outcome is immaterial. It is still a demonstration of foreknowledge that couldn't ordinarily be had.

[@DivineBanana]

listen closely at 12:50 if you wanna hear a dillahunty swallow