Atheist Discusses His Deconversion With Presuppositionalist And People Talk About Darth Dawkins

Benjamin (Atheist) discusses his deconversion, gets gaslighted by Cawabunga (Christian Presuppositonalist), and then the room trash talks Darth Dawkins.
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#religion #christianity #islam #metaphysics #buddhism #christianphilosophy #christian #islamic #metaphysical #morality #moral #ethics #kalam #philosophy #physics #science #quantumphysics #epistemology #ontology Greg Bahnsen, Cornelius Van Til, Presuppositionalist, Presuppositionalism, Presuppositional Apologetics, Kalam Cosmological Argument, Science, Agnostic, Agnosticism, Epistemology, Ontology, Physics, Quantum Physics, Necessary Being, Necessary Existence

[@vex1669]

Benjamin sounds like a cool, level-headed person. And he got that one theist to admit that it's all wordgames. Funniest thing to hear all week.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yeah Benjamin was awesome!

[@TH3-MONK]

Benjamin is a good conversationalist. He speaks very concisely and accurately. A good chat.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yes, Benjamin is awesome!

[@DumbleDad]

Extremely telling conversation at the end. As someone who was a "pastor", I agree, there is no way Darth has darkened the door of a church in a long time. He's the kind of guy that comes for two weeks and then sends the pastor a 5 page email about everything thats wrong with the congregation. He has no home but Discord and that's kinda sad.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great point!

[@weirdwilliam8500]

@@realBreakfasttacos It’s pretty clear that he has narcissistic personality disorder and probably some other mental health issues. Happy, healthy, fulfilled people don’t spend their days verbally abusing teenagers over the internet.

[@GrimHC]

Thank you for omitting part of this audio for me Taco, appreciate it King 👑

[@realBreakfasttacos]

I got you!

[@ThePsyko420]

"I don't go there because they are toxic and can't have a productive conversation"...dude turns around and effectively calls him an idiot, displaying the very toxic behavior he was talking about

[@realBreakfasttacos]

That is correct!

[@ardbegthequestion]

Wow, this was an interesting conversation. Sounds almost exactly like one I could have. Not familiar with Cawabunga, but he sounds absolutely baked. Not shocked as it seems most cast of characters in the server are full of oddities.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL great point!

[@KornySerialKiller]

Until God appears before me, to where it's undeniable, I will stand my ground. The only thing I owe people is my honest opinion. Show me this God figure y'all have killed/died for. Not just you guys,but anyone... someone, show me something that isn't bunk or utter quakery. It's rather annoying having the same conversation over and over again. Stop presupposing you're so "right" and show me how right you are.

[@Uryvichk]

Amusingly, the Christian claims they CAN show you God, because they claim Jesus is God and that Jesus is a human being who is still alive. So in theory they ought to be able to produce him. The "God is too transcendent" argument doesn't work for Trinitiarians, because they could produce Jesus.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Great points!

[@realBreakfasttacos]

They just lie.

[@KornySerialKiller]

@@Uryvichk It's circular reasoning, their entire worldview was built upon this book and the thought of "what if it's wrong?" Probably scares them, so they view all descent as some form of "evil" not seeing that they in fact tend to be the "evil" ones. It's a matter of perspective really. I was afflicted with reason at the age of 11 I was really scared at the time because well..burning forever didn't sound too great. However, I was able to conclude it was total hogwash by simply asking questions, getting no answers and then it hit me, these people don't know whether they're talking about. Not to mention I found it odd that my questions were almost always met with hostility, it wasn't them being angry at me for asking said questions, it wasn't me they were mad it. Anger was simply a response to something that never seemed to dawn on them. Meaning they feared knowing the truth. (I ain't saying I know everything,but I've got a keen nose when something doesn't smell right) Call it a natural intuition. I may stand on top a lonely hill, but I'd rather be honest and HONESTLY get it wrong, than to believe something outta fear. I don't think I'm wrong, what reason is there to believe? It makes no sense, or what if we're all brains in a simulation? Or whatever wild thing is out there. Only thing I know? Is I don't know nothin', if someone knows better than me? I've nothing against them showing me. Christians? Ain't showed me 💩. Like, threatening me or calling me a "Devil worshipper" ain't enough to win me over. Sorry bud,but my intelligence is above a knuckledragger, try again.

[@nkoppa5332]

You said derivations of "me" 7 times in this paragraph, have you ever considered religions like christianity and thier deities and concepts and values, might not be about convincing "zogtheunkillableurluk7986"?

[@dutchchatham1]

Benjamin was razor sharp and cold as ice. Surgical precision with great ease. 35:59 is the coup de grace.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yes he was!

[@CharlesB-NGNM]

Great episode. Truly totally dominated....

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yes he was!

[@Boneworm852]

This is the first time I've heard pmars not sound like he's on Valium and he still makes zero sense.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

LOL Great observation!

[@weirdwilliam8500]

Haha, this the most calm, polite wrecking ball I’ve witnessed.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Yeah, Benjamin was awesome!

[@jozincarnate]

My Darth Dawkins word salad Key: Ultimacy: This is what they do! Darth Dawkins loves to assert the ultimacy of God in every debate. Concrete: Stop talking! Let's get to the concrete facts and arguments. Foundational: Yes or No, are you ready to address the foundational issues here? Ultimate: See how atheists try to dodge the question of ultimate reality. Contingent: If you can't answer, it shows how contingent your beliefs are. Facts: Let's stick to the facts and not philosophical musings. Invoke: Atheists often invoke science but fail to see its limitations. Proposition: Answer the proposition or admit defeat! Actual: Let's discuss actual evidence, not hypotheticals. Actualizer: Who's the actualizer of morality in your worldview? Refer to: Refer to the arguments or concede your position.

[@vex1669]

Where did he get his word salad from? He's using words in all the wrong ways, like he learned his "philosophy" from a drunk hobo or something.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Nice!

[@realBreakfasttacos]

It was Bahnsen.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

Lol it wouldn't truly be an atheist comment section without the "word salad" accusations.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

I'm curious, and this is an honest question. When you say, "word salad," can you describe what the concept is that you're describing? Define "word salad" for me, not by looking it up - but, based upon what you currently define it as when you wrote the post.

[@lightbeforethetunnel]

10:54 he says, "but you're committed to the position that I'm being dishonest right now." Wait, hold on a second. Wouldn't this qualify as "telling others what their position is" or "forcing a position on" them by the criteria that atheists normally use in these debates? Because I'm a Christian Presup. And I'm not committed to the position that he's "being dishonest right now." My position is that he's being honest and saying what he really believes. The Bible speaks about people who truly do not believe that a God exists, in their hearts. The Presup position (and the Bible) says that everyone KNOWS that God exists, not that everyone believes it. There is a difference, and many conflate the two (even many Presups). It is possible for someone to truly convince themselves that they don't believe something that they inherently know. Just type in, "does knowledge always entail belief" and you'll see academic papers covering why it doesn't ALWAYS. Psychological self-deception is a real thing.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Holy crap you are insane.

[@RichardHewitt12]

​@@realBreakfasttacos bro I like what ur doing uploading these videos but responding like this just makes atheists look bad. To someone on the fence: It just looks like ur really biased and calling him names just for being an ideological opponent of yours. We gotta be honest cuz a lot of atheists do that and it creates a bad reputation.

[@RichardHewitt12]

​@@realBreakfasttacos And it also doesn't help that his post is pretty easy to see that it is not insane. It is coherent and rational from start to finish.

[@nkoppa5332]

a second note, notice how many times the atheist says "me", "i", his faith, atleast given these indications, seemed to not truly extend outward from his own mind in belief, not in practice, but rather, someone has never seemed to ask him "what if its not all about you"? What if its not actually the whole meaning of God or the universe as controlled by god to reveal himself to you beyond a shadow of a doubt? What if all of this questioning (which if its legitimate, then good, but if its the other cases i describe then bad), is actually solved by helping a christian elderly man mow his lawn? What if these questions are solved in work and sacrifice for your community? All belief systems erode to some extent without community.

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Everyone of sound mind knows no gods exist silly. He could not reject the truth anymore.

[@LateNight-zeit]

I don't understand, how could we evaluate the atheist's belief if they didn't speak about themselves? I find no reason not to take their claims about their beliefs at face value. They have access to their minds, while I do not. They can think, reason, and communicate those inner thoughts just as anyone else. If I were to go to Bob and ask what Alice is thinking, Bob might guess but Alice would know. So to get Alice's thoughts and beliefs it would be better if I just asked Alice.

[@nkoppa5332]

@@LateNight-zeit I am hearing what they are saying, i am just making the fairly obvious point that it sounds very similar to how people report their PTSD events, which is rootly them being unable to process something that they did, they cannot integrate their shadow, which for christians of the modern liberal arena, they are often daftly ignorant of the extent and proliferation of evil on earth

[@theunknownatheist3815]

Good thing that ATHEISM IS NOT A BELIEF SYSTEM then, ain’t it? 🙄

[@DumbleDad]

Super cool, gotcha bro! It's almost like he was directly answering questions about himself. When reality doesn't match your narrative, just say it does. Nice work 😊

[@nkoppa5332]

Job 38 The Lord Speaks 38 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me. 4 “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone- 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels[a] shouted for joy? 8 “Who shut up the sea behind doors when it burst forth from the womb, 9 when I made the clouds its garment and wrapped it in thick darkness, 10 when I fixed limits for it and set its doors and bars in place, 11 when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther; here is where your proud waves halt’? 12 “Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, 13 that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? 14 The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; its features stand out like those of a garment. 15 The wicked are denied their light, and their upraised arm is broken. 16 “Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? 17 Have the gates of death been shown to you? Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness? 18 Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth? Tell me, if you know all this. 19 “What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? 21 Surely you know, for you were already born! You have lived so many years! 22 “Have you entered the storehouses of the snow or seen the storehouses of the hail, 23 which I reserve for times of trouble, for days of war and battle? 24 What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed, or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth? 25 Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain, and a path for the thunderstorm, 26 to water a land where no one lives, an uninhabited desert, 27 to satisfy a desolate wasteland and make it sprout with grass? 28 Does the rain have a father? Who fathers the drops of dew? 29 From whose womb comes the ice? Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens 30 when the waters become hard as stone, when the surface of the deep is frozen? 31 “Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades? Can you loosen Orion’s belt? 32 Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c] or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs? 33 Do you know the laws of the heavens? Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth? 34 “Can you raise your voice to the clouds and cover yourself with a flood of water? 35 Do you send the lightning bolts on their way? Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’? 36 Who gives the ibis wisdom[f] or gives the rooster understanding?[g] 37 Who has the wisdom to count the clouds? Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens 38 when the dust becomes hard and the clods of earth stick together? 39 “Do you hunt the prey for the lioness and satisfy the hunger of the lions 40 when they crouch in their dens or lie in wait in a thicket? 41 Who provides food for the raven when its young cry out to God and wander about for lack of food?

[@realBreakfasttacos]

Interesting

[@garrgravarr]

Job's the guy that God handed over to the Devil to be tortured and tormented for a bet even though he already knew that Job was righteous yeah? That kinda seems like a dumb tribal myth that would only be impressive to desert-dwelling goatherders rather than, say, the documented actions of the omniscient master of the universe...

[@nkoppa5332]

@@garrgravarr If you want to understand the meanings and context of the book, google is free, you arent paying me to give you information. Also, interesting take, i dont think it seems like "dumb tribal myth" at all, it doesnt seem like any dumber of a myth, if you want to call it that, than the myth of modern secular man, which are the myth of the self,the myth of causation, the myth of induction, the myth of the past, the myth of entities, the myth of properties, the myth of unity above parts, the myth of space and time, the myth of logic, the myth of the external world, or the myth of "Were all just evolved goop bro we make our own meaning man, do anything you want just like dont hurt people bro"

[@derkylos]

I hate when other people's favourite fantasy novels are out of copyright. I can't just copypaste chapters from my favourite fantasy novel because you have to buy them first =/ (also, some of the stories are visual novels, and it's pretty hard to paste visual novels into a KZbin comment).

[@theunknownatheist3815]

Worthless garbage