Atheists Have The Burden Of Proof? | The Atheist Experience: Throwback

[@Krawnbundungle]

“I presuppose that I am correct. Now you have the burden of disproving my unfalsifiable presuppositions.” Lol not much going on upstairs is there?

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

Gymnastics studio upstairs.

[@Bluebloods7]

That's the super frustrating part; a lot of these theists sound or are, fairy to quite intelligent... that's how powerful the brainwashing can be.

[@t800fantasm2]

I suppose "Atheists have the burden of proof" is the perfect title for April Fools day....

[@petermeichan3160]

April fools day comes from when pagans celebrated the true new years day 1st April, and christians made fun of those who didn't change to 1st Jan

[@t800fantasm2]

@@petermeichan3160 That actually makes sense considering the end of March was basically the spring equinox....

[@petermeichan3160]

@@t800fantasm2 there you go, we still have equinox celebrations here in the UK

[@t800fantasm2]

@@petermeichan3160 "we still have equinox celebrations" Yeah, I have several pagan friends who celebrate it here in Canada...

[@davidgould9431]

​@@petermeichan3160Yup: here in the UK many of us will take any excuse to have a few drinks. You don't have to agree with the underlying premise: it's a party!

[@theotakux5959]

If you don't believe MY nonsense, your position is nonsense!

[@jesterc.6763]

And lets invoke logic while we're at it. Lol

[@LucasWatson-t1i]

John’s complete and total arrogance is truly something to behold.

[@omerta5591]

It is really fascinating.

[@davidgolden1607]

I'm probably not as surprised by John's illogic as I should be. I am a college physics prof, and have found that a large fraction of students have great difficulty understanding the difference between hypothesis, assertion, evidence and drawing conclusions.

[@GoodieWhiteHat]

All the presupp people are like that. It’s almost like an extra bolster they seem to need.

[@morfanaion]

When the stereo sound cuts out at 15:09 and you start checking your headset to see why you only get sound from the right sound channel, only to find out that it's the video that suddenly cuts out left.

[@peterramsey8058]

There was no such thing as an atheist, until a god was thought up. The god idea came first, then someone said "I don't believe it", the first atheist is born. The burden of proof is on the claimant.

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

Especially since everyone is “an atheist” in regards to someone’s version of god.

[@Muckelienchen]

@@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScriptBro what? Atheism is not believing in a god, any god It is NOT being Atheistic to someones version of god. That would mean that every Theist is an Atheist

[@arturama8581]

@@Muckelienchen Every theïst IS an atheïst! There are about 5000 Gods, in different parts of the world, people believe in. I presume You believe in only ONE of them. Which means you deny 4999 Gods' existance. So You are an atheïst! I only deny one more God. The ONE God You believe in.

[@arturama8581]

BS. If a God was thought up, it means the people before that moment didn't believe in a God. So the burden of proof is, according to your own reasoning, with the people who say there is a God. To add to that. There are some 5000 different Gods around the world that people worship. So proof to me that Your God was the first! As Your God (I presume you're a Christian) only goes back a few thousand years and we know people in other parts of the world worshipped for example the Sun God, thousands of years before Your God was spoken about, that will be quite difficult.

[@peterramsey8058]

@@arturama8581 yes I agree withe every word you said. The claimant in my post is the one claiming a god. I think you misunderstood.

[@airforcex9412]

In other words, “I can’t present evidence for what I’m saying so you prove me wrong.” 😂

[@tonyclements1147]

@@lifeinthe80s Please, point us to the extra biblical references of zombies in Jerusalem, I’ll wait..

[@Crystan]

@@lifeinthe80sThere's literally no history in the bible. In fact, numerous passages DIRECTLY contradict other passages in the same book, so they can't all be true at the same time. Furthermore, the Bible was not written at the time these events were happening, they were written after the fact and passed down (if at all) through word of mouth. Additionally, there isn't any documented evidence from the Roman Empire backing up these ludicrous claims. We don't even know who the original authors were - so we have literally ZERO means to prove the veracity of their claims. Checkmate Richard. Try again.

[@donnievance1942]

@@lifeinthe80s I see. The criterion for historical evidence is that something was written on paper a long, long time ago. Are you a Ph.D. in something or other? You sound like a genius.

[@MarioMarioBW]

@@lifeinthe80s The bible does not prove all non-believers wrong, nor all believers right. It is historical evidence of divine doctrines biased for believers and biased against non-believers, but that does not prove its contents that non-believers are wrong about the divine and that believers are right about the divine. To take those divine doctrines as given might constitute proven to you, but others unlike yourself may consider that standard of proven hell low. There are quack doctrines propagated as popular culture by the docile, just because it is glorified old writing doesn't mean it's not a possible pipeline for fake ken and misleading teaching.

[@MattWhite-vh6xh]

@@lifeinthe80s Is that the bit in the Bible where, right out of the gate, in Genesis 1 it says that day and night were created 3 days before the sun? . The Bible starts off absurd then goes downhill from there.

[@kingbidenmypres]

Caller: "I believe in talking snakes, and I'm very logical and smart." Enough said

[@RobertStambaugh-l5r]

Evolutionists think that apes can talk .

[@kingo8914]

@@RobertStambaugh-l5r 1. so you admit talking (nonhuman) animals is ridiculous. 2. Also humans are apes. It's not even a matter of evolution. It's a matter of definition. The scientific definition includes humans. You can't reject this unless you use a different definition of ape for some reason. But then, you would not be accurately representing people scientists and science acceptors.

[@wesley6442]

So funny how fervently and desperately they defend their literal "belief" or "faith" system that literally mentions magical things... we all know magic is not real! grown ass adults still believing in fairy tale nonsense! blows my mind..

[@jIMwILLIAMS-im7kk]

​@@wesley6442you believe an,intelligent creator is magic while being surrounded by an entire race of intelligent creators?? That's illogical superstitious nonsense.

[@kingbidenmypres]

@@jIMwILLIAMS-im7kk dont do that. Don't deflect from the original magic point about talking snakes. This is about talking snakes, which you obviously believe in. Don't change the subject at all. Go...I'll wait.. Also, human beings are not intelligent creators. We're not intelligent..you're. Perfect example of that. And we're not creators. We're rearrangers. We rearrange matter.. It's Over. Face it God is made up to control you

[@amtlpaul]

The burden of proof simply means that if you want to convince a reasonable person that there's at least something to what you're saying, you have to be prepared to at least make a reasonable case for it. No one is obligated to just take someone's word for it.

[@somersetcace1]

Exactly. If someone says "I believe in God and I have my reasons." Fair enough. Whatever gets you out of bed, but if they want me to believe what they believe, then of course the burden of proof is on them, regardless of these silly arguments.

[@davidszeremi1786]

​@@somersetcace1I'm suggesting asking them why it isn't a different god and how they would prove it isn't. Basically, prove there is no Odin or you should believe in all God claims or none....

[@Frank71]

E the​@@somersetcace1

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

No kid, there is no such thing as a “burden of proof.” This isn't a game with rules; points to score. Either you have a RATIONAL POSSIBLE world view or you don't. To be an atheist and have no factual basis for a godless world, is to be content to be even more lost and clueless than yesterday. Present ONE FACT that proves a Godless reality or admit that you're TOTALLY LOST & CLUELESS regarding reality. THERE IS A REASON that no atheist has a rational atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. The God of the Bible is the one true God and Jesus is the only one God the Father has ever raised from the dead. There can only be one infinite being: 1. An infinite being lacks nothing. 2. For 2 beings to differ, one has to lack something the other has. 3. A being that lacks something, is not infinite. 4. Therefore, there can only be one infinite being. 5. An ultimate being has no potential, because the potential is maxed out. Therefore, it’s a contradiction to say there can or should be more than one infinite being. That would erroneously state that a finite being is not maxed out potential and another one is needed to reach full potential. 6. To say this infinite being is the Christian G0D, we go into the historical evidence of Jesus and his Word. It is patently obvious there can only be one supernatural first cause/prime mover/God. Yeah, I know a vast amount more than anybody that's ever graced these threads and I've barely got started.

[@amtlpaul]

@@borthwrenblanston6632 LOL, there is no such thing as an obligation for me to just take your word for anything.

[@georgem2334]

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence -- Christopher Hitchens.

[@kevinx7015]

Then that would mean if there is the assertion that there is no God without evidence supporting that assertion, then the assertion that there is no God can be dismissed.

[@God_Is_An_Atheist]

@@kevinx7015 Yes, and that is exactly what the hosts were saying as well. But most Atheist do not make a claim about whether a god exists or not, we're just saying that we are not convinced that one does exist. Not being convinced of something is not an assertion and it does not need to be supported by evidence.

[@kevinx7015]

@@God_Is_An_Atheist So then you are saying that due to the lack of evidence either way it is just as likely that there is a God as there isn’t one? Well then go ahead and say that.

[@alfresco8442]

@@kevinx7015 He's not saying that at all.

[@kevinx7015]

@@alfresco8442 And how does you saying that is not what Hitchen’s meant means that you cannot justify a dismissal of the assertion that there is no God when there is no evidence supporting that conclusion? If it can be applied to one assertion then it can also be applied to the opposite assertion.

[@jonathanpearson4522]

Presupps know exactly one trick. Every call from them sounds like this. So infuriating

[@artemisnite]

They always end up on "you were never REALLY a xtian." Aside from being offensive, it's hypocritical. To get converts the message is "just believe in your heart, blah, blah, blah." They're so inclusive on the way in and so exclusive once you're out.

[@jamesparson]

In a similar tone, if you were baptized, you are always a Christian.

[@joshfish2]

Not even that, but there are some Christians that unironically say "you were never a true xtian" whilst being the most watered down version of Christian themselves I.e "Idc in the bible really, or believe in God, I just like meeting Doris at the occasional church service, and like eating communion"

[@Leith_Crowther]

All of that is bad, but it’s not hypocritical. That’s entirely consistent with biblical messaging.

[@artemisnite]

@@Leith_Crowther It is indeed hypocritical to say all you have to do to become a Christian is believe in your heart and confess with your mouth and then turn around and say "you were never really a Christian". I never said anything about whether the tactic was Biblically sound. I couldn't care less about what people consider Biblically sound because that varies from person to person.

[@rbwinn3]

I try to include atheists in whatever I do. It never works. Atheists are the most exclusive people on earth.

[@dazzag]

"it's in the bible" "prove the bible is true" "easy - the Bible says so" And that's why nobody takes theists seriously

[@ciprianpopa1503]

EXCEPT THEISTS.

[@captainawesome2121]

Isnt it cool that part of the christian position is that everyone claiming they dont hold it is a terrible person doomed to suffer for eternity but also that they are lying?

[@karenmiller6088]

That caller is truly "special".

[@ReynoldsGarrett]

Whooaaaaaaaa there! I agree.

[@markmerry1471]

No it's the God nut cases that need to prove that there is a God, not the other way round.

[@TheSnoeedog]

that's a bit of an understatement. The caller requires a nurse to dial the telephone, another to wipe the drool from his chin and a helmet while walking....

[@Wes-x9p]

He is a Cocain Cockaroach snorting coke and blowing jeebus

[@thedivinemrm5832]

I miss Don. He had such a gentle way about him but the ability to slice through word-jungle like a machete with just a couple of utterances. Hope he and his husband are both well.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

2nd that.

[@melaniesouthworth5618]

Don has always been my favorite!

[@Esteban45696]

His partner passed away a few years ago if im remembering correctly.

[@DemstarAus]

His husband passed away from cancer some years ago unfortunately. He's spoken about that loss on the show. I hope Don's doing ok.

[@thedivinemrm5832]

@@DemstarAus Gosh, that's terrible news. I'm raising a glass to a lost comrade I never met...

[@williamshakespeare1573]

It's annoying that these people seem to never understand that "it's in my book" is never evidence that the claim in the book is true...

[@artificialintelligence8388]

Why not?

[@williamshakespeare1573]

@@artificialintelligence8388 Because it's inherently circular. Would you accept the argument coming from someone with another holy book than yours?

[@artificialintelligence8388]

@@williamshakespeare1573 How would you discern which historical book is true or not? Was King Arthur real or not? Same with the Bible and other religious books. The Bible was written a few years after Jesus died, from people who have interacted with Jesus. The Quran was written 500 years after Jesus died. Which is the better source with regards to the life of Jesus and his resurrection?

[@Mr_Rouge]

@@artificialintelligence8388 None of those books is "historical". And nope, we have no evidence that King Arthur was real. Translation for you : being written in a book doesn't automatically mean true, you need more than that.

[@artificialintelligence8388]

@@Mr_Rouge Scholars would disagree. As to needing more than that, yes there is collaborating evidence from cosmological, philosophical, science, theoretical, personal experiences. It is not only the Bible that solidifies that Jesus is God.

[@petyrkowalski9887]

Judge: « you are accused of murder and I find you guilty until you can prove you arent. » Defendant: « but you have no evidence ». Judge: « I have faith you did it and thats good enough for me ».

[@halwasserman7905]

Truly it seems like all these presuppositionalists don't believe a word they say and only come onto atheist shows to mess with the hosts. I mean the idea that the world only makes sense if God exists is patently absurd.

[@AbsurdlyGeeky]

1. If God exists, all knowledge is derived from knowing God exists. 2. I know I exist, but I do not know God exists. 3. God does not exist. It's valid, but not sound. The fist premise is outright nonsense.

[@MikaelLewisify]

We don’t have the burden of proof because we are not the ones trying to prove something.

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

No. You don't prove any atheist idea because a Godless reality isn't possible. There is no such thing as a “burden of proof.” This isn't a game with rules; points to score. Either you have a RATIONAL POSSIBLE world view or you don't. To be an atheist and have no factual basis for a godless world, is to be content to be even more lost and clueless than yesterday. Present ONE FACT that proves a Godless reality or admit that you're TOTALLY LOST & CLUELESS regarding reality. THERE IS A REASON that no atheist has a rational atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. The God of the Bible is the one true God and Jesus is the only one God the Father has ever raised from the dead. There can only be one infinite being: 1. An infinite being lacks nothing. 2. For 2 beings to differ, one has to lack something the other has. 3. A being that lacks something, is not infinite. 4. Therefore, there can only be one infinite being. 5. An ultimate being has no potential, because the potential is maxed out. Therefore, it’s a contradiction to say there can or should be more than one infinite being. That would erroneously state that a finite being is not maxed out potential and another one is needed to reach full potential. 6. To say this infinite being is the Christian G0D, we go into the historical evidence of Jesus and his Word. It is patently obvious there can only be one supernatural first cause/prime mover/God. Yeah, I know a vast amount more than anybody that's ever graced these threads and I've barely got started.

[@kevinx7015]

Then you shouldn’t have a problem with stating due to a lack of evidence either for or against there being a God it is just as likely that there is a God as there isn’t a God, if you are not claiming anything. So let’s see that statement.

[@tonyclements1147]

@@kevinx7015 🤦‍♂️ You got wrecked two threads up, why try again?

[@MikaelLewisify]

@@kevinx7015 come on man, are you really gonna look back over history and say that there is a loving God overseeing us? He just sat back while 6 million people were murdered in Nazi Germany. He just sat back while millions were murdered by the Khamir rouge? While millions were murdered (in gods name) during the crusades? While millions of people live today in forced work, sex trafficking, etc. give me a break. There is no god. And if there is, he is a cruel, psychotic and viscous son of a bitch.

[@ultimate_capper3643]

⁠​⁠@@kevinx7015So due to the lack of evidence either for or against that the universe originated from Universe Belching Unicorns from the 8th dimension, it is therefore just as likely that universe belching unicorns from the 8th dimension exists as universe belching unicorns from the 8th dimension not existing. Got it.

[@Kalopsia666]

Presuppositionalists should just save themselves a shitload of time and effort by just repeating the following sentence: I’m right because I’m right, and because I’m right, therefor I’m right. That’s it. That’s their entire argument condensed down to 12 words.

[@donnievance1942]

I like that, but I'm afraid you've helped them upgrade their argument.

[@jeanhind8198]

Did he actually say "unless your world view is Biblical, your world view is incoherent"?! Well, perhaps that makes sense to John, but not to millions of others across the globe!!

[@starofjustice1]

Maybe if "Biblical" and "Christian" meant one thing. They do not.

[@bodricpriest8816]

Yes he did, and yes it's bonkers.

[@Ratciclefan]

Circular arguments are a certified classic

[@basti5263]

The flying Spaghetti Monster revealed that there is no god and that you know there is no god. So even if you tell me you believe in a god i know that you don't.

[@Ghalaghor_McAllistor]

Ramen!

[@Seticzech]

@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.

[@stevenswitzer5154]

May he bless your meat balls

[@mikehager4897]

@@Seticzech You're the one that thinks your imaginary friend is real, animals talk; and the world was once covered in water. I think it is plain who is the nutjob here.

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

@@lifeinthe80s nope, the bible is a lie created by the Dark Lord Pizza. the true god Flying Spaghetti Monster has revealed this to all. if you can't see the truth it's because the Dark Lord Pizza clouds your mind with marinara.

[@kayallen7603]

Absence of belief is NOT something anyone else who is NOT me can PROVE.

[@Seticzech]

@@JimCastleberry Sure, watermelon or death cat have capability to belive. 🤦🤦🤦Imbecile.

[@jasonluong3862]

I have an invisible tiny unicorn on my hand. Now you have to prove it is not there.

[@Yakkityyak248]

It's a miracle, praise the horn

[@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral]

I've got a phone in my pocket. Okay, can you prove it. Yeah, here's the phone. There's a god. Can you prove that? YoU cAnT pRoVe i DoNt!

[@SuperSglenn]

why is it that these theist do not understand what the burden of proof is?

[@ARoll925]

Cause their faith depends on them not understanding it

[@qwadratix]

Logic isn't taught at Bible school.

[@presidentskroob]

Because they know they have nothing to meet that burden of proof, so they try to wiggle their way out of that responsibility.

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

I UNDERSTAND everything. There is no such thing as a “burden of proof.” This isn't a game with rules; points to score. Either you have a RATIONAL POSSIBLE world view or you don't. To be an atheist and have no factual basis for a godless world, is to be content to be even more lost and clueless than yesterday. Present ONE FACT that proves a Godless reality or admit that you're TOTALLY LOST & CLUELESS regarding reality. THERE IS A REASON that no atheist has a rational atheist explanation for reality. That's because there isn't one. The God of the Bible is the one true God and Jesus is the only one God the Father has ever raised from the dead. There can only be one infinite being: 1. An infinite being lacks nothing. 2. For 2 beings to differ, one has to lack something the other has. 3. A being that lacks something, is not infinite. 4. Therefore, there can only be one infinite being. 5. An ultimate being has no potential, because the potential is maxed out. Therefore, it’s a contradiction to say there can or should be more than one infinite being. That would erroneously state that a finite being is not maxed out potential and another one is needed to reach full potential. 6. To say this infinite being is the Christian G0D, we go into the historical evidence of Jesus and his Word. It is patently obvious there can only be one supernatural first cause/prime mover/God. Yeah, I know a vast amount more than anybody that's ever graced these threads and I've barely got started.

[@DrKlausTrophobie]

@@borthwrenblanston6632

[@hansj5846]

They cannot grasp the idea of "I don't know so I'll wait for sufficient evidence".

[@TheSnoeedog]

That's because they're delusional (and/or liars)

[@suburban-vampire]

I have never heard a presup that didn't sound massively cognitively broken.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

👍🍻

[@patrickmcelrath4962]

Is that not the point? Hahah

[@TheSnoeedog]

And embarrassingly pitiable....like an anteater that's creeped out by bugs....or a screaming batshit monkey clown

[@thedarknessthatcomesbefore4279]

And massively arrogant and narcissistic.

[@Mateoski97]

Could you imagine a prosecutor in court demanding that the defendant prove themselves innocent? 🤦

[@somersetcace1]

Calling into a show like this and saying, essentially, "You're a liar! You know there's a god!" makes no rational sense. If that's what they believe then why bother? By making that accusation, all he is telling me is that he clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Seems to suggest it's not atheists he's trying to convince, but himself.

[@TheSnoeedog]

"...now you're just affirming nonsense" -- A christian presupper showing just how ironically divorced from reality he is.

[@vashlotus1891]

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.” - Hitchens

[@APKAssassin]

Wow! To discuss/debate any subject in a logical way... requires that those involved in the discussion have logic reasoning capabilities greater than those of an average 4 year old.

[@nsf001-3]

I drove through Topeka a couple times last year and even that was really more Topeka than I needed

[@roblane66]

He was reading the Darth Dawkins script!😂😂

[@NoahMotion1970]

Burden of proof… lol I don’t go up to theists and say, “excuse me, have you accepted not believing in Christ into your life?” 😂😂

[@tonyclements1147]

@@lifeinthe80s Prove anything you said..without referencing the Bible, your feelings, whatever your clergy or Bible study leaders tell you. I’ll wait.

[@Seticzech]

@@lifeinthe80s Jesus is myth.

[@ApatheticFish3667]

@@lifeinthe80s Prove literally a word of what you're saying, otherwise you'll get blocked from commenting here.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@lifeinthe80s Are you taking the piss?

[@numbertwo579]

​@@lifeinthe80syour god is as real as zeus

[@albertmiller3082]

Sounds like the Caller is constantly sniffling… sniffling… sniffling. Guy has something going on, man.

[@Iamjamessmith1]

Logical reasoning is also a type of evidence.

[@JesusGarcia-bu7tf]

I can also say that by denying my position that I believe in the Cookie Monster, you’re deceiving yourself. lol

[@AllHailDiskordia]

Gods never say anything, but their believers sure do

[@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral]

And those believers can't agree on what the gods allegedly said

[@bjs3380]

Wow you guys are way more patient than I would be.

[@stephenjackson7797]

John "sniff" from KS.

[@Yakkityyak248]

Infuriating.

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

“Everyone else has to demonstrate god because I know it’s impossible” Is what he’s saying.

[@barrythomson899]

John should take up a stage career as a mind reader. He’s making an unproven assertion about what is happening inside another person’s mind. Unproven assertions are the basis for all religions.

[@iremembersomethings]

Homie is essentially saying "nuh uh, yes you do! Lalalalala I win!"

[@forcemarine]

Its very very difficult to logic someone out of a position they didn't logic themselves into. Its just sad to watch the gears in their brain seize up in real time.

[@TheSnoeedog]

being a little generous, the way you're waving around that word, "brain," don't you think? There are several items in my veggie crisper far more evolved than this stultifyingly vapid bloviator

[@glenbateman5960]

I'm not making any claims, so I have nothing to prove. Those making fantastical claims have the burden of proof. I understand why they try so hard to shift that burden. If I was telling stories about powerful, magical beings who love me and want to torture everyone I hate, I would be trying to shift the burden, too. I'm not making such claims, though. I have no responsibility to prove anything.

[@DG123z]

They don't understand that the default position is not to believe something

[@claudiaarjangi4914]

Yes. This 💯. They simply havent been taught, shown that not believing IS the default, until there IS reason to believe. Believing is no longer "reasonable". In other parts of their life they usually wouldnt believe rando claims ( i hope 😬), but in this particular part, they just havent been allowed the option to know they can weigh up data & decide for themselves. So they are in a box theyve never known they are in. That blocks out the rest of the world. They just cant see the box isnt real. 🤔 I have pity for the decent ones that, in their lives, just werent taught/ allowed the options to know that social constructs are not laws or absolutes. 🥲🌏☮️

[@MarioMarioBW]

You may not understand they'd have to take the counter-'default' position to believe your something. They'd have to add your something to their credenda or things to be believed, and they may not be bothered to.

[@DG123z]

@@MarioMarioBW you make no sense

[@MarioMarioBW]

@@DG123z What can I do to help you make sense of it then?

[@DG123z]

@@MarioMarioBW well there's just so many things wrong with it. The default position of not knowing is not a counter position. Nor is a lack of something "my" something. It's simply the only logical place to start. They don't need to add anything but subject. They need to subtract the assumptions they are making without proof.

[@sparki9085]

Where does the "you cant know anything unless god" come from? And why do so many trot it out despite not being able to back it up at all

[@mabatch3769]

Presuppositionalist apologetics was invented by Cornelius Van Til in the 1940’s or so. That’s where it comes from. These people are regurgitating his work without even knowing it. Even some Christian philosophers disregard his work as being logically unsound.

[@ColinHarris-g6g]

It's that kind of self righteous ignorance that so gets up the nose of all free thinking people.

[@TheSnoeedog]

it's also the sort of thing that (in my opinion) differentiates between the stupid, the ignorant, the willfully ignorant and those with *MOTIVATED STUPIDITY*

[@geraldammons5520]

Caller: Please stop sniffling !!!!!

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

Yes 2nd that👍🍻

[@allanmason3201]

To be charitable, it's getting on for Spring and various plants are starting to dump pollen in the air. Maybe John didn't want to take an antihistamine before his call because he wanted to be as mentally sharp as possible.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@allanmason3201🤣

[@starfishsystems]

​@@allanmason3201 Fair point, though the "staying mentally sharp" part evidently didn't go as planned.

[@TheRealLucifer_Morningstar]

​@@allanmason3201This is a throwback episode from 05/07/2017. 👍😳👍

[@dlbsyst]

The Christian god is invisible so why would an atheist have to prove something invisible is real? That's just silly and illogical.

[@aliasalias8681]

That dude was laughing at himself by the end of it. Bow down and serve me and I shall bequeath unto you your TV! Lol.

[@notreallydavid]

The assumption of AmeriChristians that their view of the world is the universal default is, to put it at its mildest, maddening.

[@ChrisM-zm4li]

It’s just absurd. Courts set the burden on the accusers for a reason.

[@michaelmay5453]

There is no point in trying to have a discussion with these kinds of people. Their dishonesty is such that their presuppositions are presented as absolute facts even though they are in conflict with reality itself. It's like saying that all theists know there is no god and they are just making shit up because it helps them gain favours? I can at least prove the last part in many societies so I'm more factually correct in that statement than the caller is in his.

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

He wants the authority of a god but knows he can’t demonstrate it.

[@esdet105]

The burden of proof has two aspects: proof there is and proof there isn't. How do believers prove that other gods are non-existent?

[@Seticzech]

That's actually good point.

[@adgdrgar]

"I did not understand that" Translates to "I was not listening."

[@newyorksbeerreviews1280]

All I’m hearing is “ God exists because the Bible says he exists, and the Bible is accurate because it says so in the Bible “

[@kelseykjarsgaard5774]

😅

[@DarkWater4Eva]

This was my #1 pairing of hosts back in the days.

[@24magiccarrot]

This caller makes it easy for every single person who doesn't believe his claim to know that his claim is false even if they can't prove it to anyone else. Every single person knows what they do and do not believe, and it's nonsense to suggest that anyone is suppressing their belief, we wouldn't be here having our beliefs challenged if we weren't interested in believing if we had sufficient reason to do so.

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

When you’re a narcissist you can claim the authority of a god and anyone who disagrees is just lying.

[@graydanerasmussen4071]

"...how do you know?" Time to bring out Roland the Closet Goblin: "I know because Roland told me several times!"

[@bodzio16]

Someone is using good old "best calls from AxP" playlist and gives it another life.

[@24magiccarrot]

Make an assertion, when asked to provide evidence make another assertion, when asked to provide evidence for that reiterates the initial assertion.

[@adamheywood113]

The alleged Christian position that everyone already believes that God exists is both unfalsifiable and misses the point Even if I were secretly convinced of God's existence, that's not evidence. Conviction follows evidence and therefore cannot be used as evidence. If you were in court, accused of a crime, you wouldn't want the Prosecution to turn the jury and say, "You _already believe_ the defendant is guilty so all you have to do is pronounce it." But I've already said more than I need to. The fact that it's unfalsifiable, as it presumes other minds exist and that their contents can be ascertained remotely, means it's a meaningless argument anyway.

[@rhecb]

This has to be my favourite call ever 👍🏻

[@Ponokyo]

At this point, gods should come down and reveal themselves on principle alone.

[@diogeneslamp8004]

Damn skippy! Should be a piece of cake for an omnipotent god.

[@richardp7116]

Claims atheists have the burden of proof and then makes multiple assertions that have a burden of proof

[@ARoll925]

I don't think I have ever seen this call, wow, what an asinine position this caller holds

[@markvonwisco7369]

Presuppers always running a dialogue tree rather than having an actual conversation.

[@劉炎-p9z]

Essentially, the caller was asserting their inability to conceive of a world devoid of God. That destroyed any ground for a debate. It makes any type of debate futile when one party cannot accurately portray the opposing viewpoint

[@dx1450]

I'm so glad that we have Christians around to tell us what we really believe. I would have gone around thinking I don't believe in God if people like John didn't set me straight...

[@Support_Ad_Blocker]

Theists can't even define their "god" without falling to supernaturalistic woo.🤔

[@MisterG2323]

Great closing line.

[@viderethevaccinatorfromhol7536]

I thought it must be good for me to join an American atheist channel. (They can't all be like that). For me, as a Dutchman, this is almost unbelievable, and I'm 51 years old. Nobody believes nowadays, and most churches have found a better destination. Libraries, apartments, or whatever. The very, very few who believe are free to practice whatever religion they want, but it is something you do privately. Forcing your religious beliefs upon other people is a no-go Why are we decades ahead? And not only the Netherlands.

[@viderethevaccinatorfromhol7536]

@jaflenbond7854 it doesn't get me. We just don't believe, and we are doing pretty well without it. Even better than the USA does. We don't need it. Something you can't understand.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@viderethevaccinatorfromhol7536 I've had many many (pointless) conversations with young Jaflen and this is what I've learned. His god appears to be loosely based on christian teachings. But there is no set doctrine, no Tenets of Faith. Jaflen openly admits that he doesn't even own any version of the bible and his biblical knowledge has been proven to be wanting. And yet he fails to understand why people are dismissing all of the claims he makes. Oh he also has a small number of scripts he spams.

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@jaflenbond7854 ++?????++ Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start++??

[@ookekklibarianbornagain6708]

@@viderethevaccinatorfromhol7536G'day from Aussie and welcome🍻 The same could have been said about Aust 15 tears ago. No one cared what religion a person was, all that nattered was if a person was a "good fellar or Sheila". Over the years the fundamentalist Christians & Christian nationalist have moved into politics in federal, state and even local councils.

[@Seticzech]

@@jaflenbond7854 Blabla from insane mind.

[@milkbottle4u]

“Now you’re just affirming nonsense” 😂😂😂

[@davidszeremi1786]

Why should I believe in Thor? Oh Thor isn't god? How do you know? What if there is a god but it's not the god you believe in, how would you prove that?.....

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

“Thor” didn’t claim to create time, space and matter at the REQUIRED same time as Jesus did in Genesis 1:1..”In the beginning (time), G0D created the heavens (space) and the earth (matter).” NOR does he declare you a liar if you do not see “HIM” by seeing his creation: “For since the creation of the world G0D’s invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” - Romans 1:20 (NIV) NOR did he become flesh and dwell among us like Jesus did: “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.” John 1:14 NOR did he rise again and take his place at the right hand of the Father: “Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” - Mathew 26:64 NOR is he going to be your Judge at JUDGEMENT DAY >> “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before G0D; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Revelation 20:12 So does that answer your question as to why JESUS and no other?

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

@@borthwrenblanston6632 what about vishnu? hindus claim that vishnu created the earth, and that vishnu comes down to earth in a human form, just like jesus. are they wrong? how do you know? why is your holy book correct but theirs isn't?

[@brentjones905]

​@@gobletgobletstein5672dont foeget the cosmic egg where all things originated. Chaos was there, the primoridals, even the gods. Maybe if you hit them with a story thats got the same premise and older than their own theyll stop. But i feel like thst wouldnt work.

[@watchandjewelryloft4713]

Wow. That was a ridiculous call. 🤦🏻‍♂️. I usually dont make it through these and have to move on to something else. 😂

[@topgunaudio7983]

Hope he has good proof of the reasons for denying the other thousands of gods that exist that he automatically believes in by his argument.

[@korbendallas5318]

He only needs one piece of evidence: If the Biblical God exists, all the others don't.

[@isaacbruner65]

​@@korbendallas5318maybe, but he didn't come anywhere close to demonstrating that the Christian God exists.

[@korbendallas5318]

@@isaacbruner65 That's not the point.

[@RosieRoserules]

When it comes to Bigfoot I have always thought that wouldn't there be some sort of ape man naturally anyway

[@dannyspitzer1267]

And another theist falls flat on their face...

[@Pahiro]

I haven't listened to AxP in 10 years and I'm still shocked that there's so many people who believe and have a surface level understanding of critical thinking theory, even if they get it wrong 99% of the time.

[@alexissmith5589]

The caller thinks the if you don't believe, your world view is nonsense. This coming from a person who wholeheartedly thinks that a Invisible, magical, sky-dwelling zombie is real. Talk about nonsense.

[@lalomontoyajr.9282]

This is my favorite team. Where is the guy with the glasses at?

[@armysapper12b]

I think John has the Coke sniffles. 🤧

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

or he could just have the regular sniffles. what are you, a drug presuppositionalist?

[@armysapper12b]

@@gobletgobletstein5672 it was a joke. But being in law enforcement, I guess I do have a pretty good understanding what it looks like. So maybe drug presupposition will be on my next resume.

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

@@armysapper12b lol of course a pig assumes someone is doing drugs with no evidence

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

@@sideboob6851Why the need to be like that?

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

@@sideboob6851 What does that mean exactly?

[@bouzoukiman5000]

Every christian knows there is no god and no magic but forces themself to tell themself they believe based on different fears

[@NotALiberalSoSkipTheScript]

Well that’s not fair to say. You can’t prove the know there is no god. You can say that most know they can’t demonstrate their god.

[@chrisll3874]

My Bible? Edward O'Wilson's "On Human Nature" Genetic Determinism. Check it out.

[@johns1625]

"The proof that i am correct is that if you disagree with me your life is absurd." God is real because if god wasnt real I'd be wrong. 😂😂😂

[@Disturbed0neGaming]

Anyone who attempts to use a presuppositional argument for any god is automatically a dishonest interlocutor and doesn't deserve any time from anyone.

[@roygarza2770]

RELIGION IS TAUGHT

[@tommccarthy3052]

Correct. I was raised Catholic because my parents, grandparents, etc. were. It was my parents who "broke the cycle" & left the church.

[@tonyclements1147]

@@lifeinthe80s Sorry, but Catholicism isn’t a lie simply because you disagree with it. There’s 45k denominations, and *several* faiths within Christianity and every last one of you insists that you have the right path to God, but everyone’s just supposed to take your word for it? 😂😂

[@tommccarthy3052]

@@lifeinthe80s Seriously? That's the best you can come up with? Oy gevalt.And what part about "leaving the church" did you not get? Never been back (I was 12 at the time).

[@gobletgobletstein5672]

@@lifeinthe80s so there is only one objectively correct way to interpret the bible? by the way - which translation, assuming you're reading an english version?

[@lenroddis5933]

@@lifeinthe80s Demonstrate that anything is "God’s Word".

[@4dojo]

I rolled my eyes when he was like “The Christian position is that everyone believes”. I don’t believe and most of my family and friends are Christians. I think I got one family member who occasionally accusss me of believing with no evidence for her claim, but the rest of them who aren’t ignorant accept that I don’t believe and try to convince me to believe rather than wasting their time trying to convince me that l already believe.

[@smochygrice465]

Okay. I'm an atheist because I've never seen any Gods. Simple 😎 And a good Tuesday Morning 🌞 AXP Fans and Theists ❤❤❤ Peace 👍

[@borthwrenblanston6632]

Wow. You're clearly too stupid to even know how to observe God. There is no proof of God for those that have a God bias. Jesus could appear at the foot of your bed tonight and you'll wake up the next day and tell yourself that it was a Vegas act or some bad pizza. You have to sincerely seek God to come to know & understand God and his ways. You can't sit on the couch with your beer and demand that God appear to you in your living room. It just doesn't happen that way. Let's face the facts, shall we? You're just another lost & clueless fool that thinks humanity came from star dust or something else equally ridiculous. But you have a 2nd chance. We already read the last page and it says "God wins." I don't know about you, but I'm going to fight and be an overcomer of Satan, the world and with God's help, the flesh. I'm not just going to barely cross the finish line; I'm going to cross the finish line doing warp 13 w/ my hair on fire. NOTHING is going to stop me from going to heaven. STOP wallowing in your lost & cluelessness. Get w/ the program. START TODAY NEW!! I would say that you fail to understand exactly who God is. He wants to be sought after. Why? Because he's worthy of our pursuit. His awesome greatness is beyond your comprehension. You're breathing air that doesn't belong to you. Taking up space that doesn't belong to you. Given a life that doesn't belong to you. He brought you from nothing and you're nothing, YET you feel totally justified to raise your tiny stupid fist at him. THAT is what you are; never mind him. That said, Jesus loves you dearly & has shown you this love by bringing you from non-existence & giving you “the gift of life.” And did you say “thank you?” No. He also removed your doom via the sin of Adam by the suffering on the cross for you. And did you say “thank you?” No. He’s also “prepared a place for you in Heaven” if you’ll only return his love that’s already given you. And did you say “thank you?” No. Again, it’s the “love” of Jesus for people is what attracts them to Christianity. Your move, Chief.

[@NonFlyiingDutchman]

@@borthwrenblanston6632 Are you familiar with the Emperor's New Clothes?

[@smochygrice465]

​@@borthwrenblanston6632 Blasphemy! How dare you limit God!!!! If Gods will was that I was to believe, from having seen God, then God's will would make it so. As God knew before I was even in the womb that I'd be an unbeliever, as God finished creation before he even started. Also, God warns us not to trust man, so your advice is once again dismissed. And quit undermining God to suggest that anything you say would ever change God's will, as everything that happens happens accordingly to God's will. God bless atheism 🙏

[@adgdrgar]

So tired of "because the bible says so" as proof. They do not see the stupidity of it and it hurts my brain.

[@artnace]

This guy rejects all other god(s). So he is rejecting their claims.

[@timstearsman7084]

John from Topeka doesn't get it.

[@TheRaven_200]

These presup arguments are total garbage. 🤦‍♂️

[@andrewmcmillan6972]

I was SO confused the entire time the Christian was talking

[@roygarza2770]

INDIVIDUALS AREN'T BORN RELIGION

[@DavidmByrd]

When is it reasonable to believe Imaginary is REAL? Answer: When sufficient evidence is presented. When is it O.K. to reject the reality of Evidence that conflicts with ones delusion? Answer: NEVER, this constitutes a symptom of DELUSIONAL DISORDER