AUDIO Over CAT 5 to SIMPLY Your Setup - Radial Catapult

[@AdamNeely]

We just switched to CAT racks for our IEM split, and man, it simplifies everything, and everything is a lot lighter. Audio over CAT 5 ftw.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

@@AdamNeely Nice! That has to make things a lot easier and lighter. Your IEM video is fantastic by the way 🤘 I can imagine switching to CAT has made it a lot lighter, as I also just removed 2 of my ART S8 3 ways from my rack and it’s a ton lighter. Thanks for commenting man 🤘

[@cameronj.2375]

@@ScottUhlMusic Man I feel stupid trying to figure this out 😅Was about to buy two S8s, also greatly influenced by Adam's video, but I'm struggling to see how the CAT racks would replace them. The only connection I can make is if you're using multiple of the transmitters (3 to fill a rack) to send to the FOH and taking the CAT from the transmitter to a receiver rack sending xlr to the iem mixer?

[@AdamNeely]

​@@cameronj.2375 I'll probably make a video on exactly what I did, but 2 CAT racks replace 3 s8s for 24 channels for our IEM band rig. 1) Audio comes into the CAT racks via 6 CAT5 stage snakes, which go out to 6 4-channel breakouts at various locations on stage. 2) Audio comes out the XLR male front of those CAT racks to the front inputs of our Presonus 24R mixer. 3) Audio is split out the back of the CATracks into 6 CAT5 lines which go to FOH with 6 more 4-channel breakouts. Advantages: It's much lighter, and we travel and fly with our own very light stage snakes. Setup is simplified, and dead clean. Disadvantages: Since there are no XLR inputs on the band rack side, the only way of getting audio into the rack is at the 4-channel breakout stage drop side at various locations on stage. Because of that, changing channels isn't practical, except re-routing stuff in the mixer software. This setup is best for a touring project where the channels don't ever change from night to night.

[@joecrites]

@@AdamNeely I'll be on the lookout for your video on this!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

@@AdamNeely Nice! I would love to see a video on that as well. That sounds really convenient.

[@tinsweep]

XLR over ethernet is the best! I don't have the Radial ones, but we use 4 (minis, essentially) with one half set-up in the rack and pre-routed to the splitter/mixer - so when we set up, it's just a matter of plugging in 4 ethernet cords, rather than 16 XLRs - love it.

[@Gaba.Groove]

Same!

[@aleksandergrzybowski8899]

Maybe this was mentioned, but I'd add that solutions like these have great repairability - it's all physical soldered connections, if something breaks it is fairly straightforward to replace a cable or solder joint, network cables are cheap and available everywhere, also if Radial decides to abandon this product, you can create such adapter yourself - this is actually what our sound guy in church did recently - it can be cheaper at bigger scale, or could be implemented in places where you can't put the rack version.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

That’s great point too!

[@jaimemoralacreacion]

I've been using these systems for over 2 years now. Started with some cheap ones I found on Amazon and upgraded to the Sound Tools ones about a year ago and they have been great. We mainly use it for our drummer. We have everything wireless in our rack and a rack mounted CAT system like that, then we run two CAT 6 cables to the drummer who has his mics installed in his drum set and connecting them is super fast, as well as tear down. No huge snake to lug around. We also set these up in our studio. These kinds of systems are awesome and when other musicians see the set up they always ask how it works and can't believe how easy and fast it is for the set up. I encourage anyone to give them a try, and yeah there are some cheap ones but honestly always invest a little more if you can. Sound Tools is my go to and pricey but I know I have reliable connections. Good stuff man.

[@djpgreek]

Does your drummer use a may mic system? Curious as to how he connects drums to your cat 6

[@mattjohnson7660]

Ethercon is pretty awesome!!! My biased 2 cents would be to buy Dave Rat’s “RatCat” products…same exact stuff just a little cheaper…especially on the 1U unit! (And they’re red which is pretty awesome!) We ultimately moved away from ethercon connections and breakout boxes just for replaceability on the road. Loved them while we used them tho!

[@jviquezc93]

Instantly a must for my band's rack! This will save so much trouble with cables, I could just have this sitting on the rack and then just the cat5 is plug/unplug at every show! Thanks for this!!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Nice! 🤘 glad you found it helpful!

[@soundlegendstudios3945]

I'm glad to see more companies are getting behind this. I've been building cat to audio breakouts for my pedalboard I/O and drumkit mics for a few years now. So convenient just having a few different size runs for the drum kit in a small work box than needing to deal with excessive multicore (or not enough length for that matter) plus when building your own cables 300ft of bulk STP is extremely affordable.

[@musicafteroldage]

I recommended the CAT alternative to my old pastor because they were moving the xr18 to the back. Instead of getting a huuuge expensive snake, we got something similar to the minis in this video (but way cheaper haha) and instead of 230943209 cables, we made 8 CAT cables and VOILA! problem solved! Now these Radial stuff are pro level. BTW, what people need to understand is that this is not a digital alternative. It's just a super convenient analog solution - which is awesome! Thanks for sharing man!

[@basssalad]

The Cat Units don't seem any cheaper than the Radial units? Radial is easier to find and may not have to be mail ordered. How long has that company been/ will be around?

[@musicafteroldage]

@@basssalad Presuming I am from the US? Thought my accent gave me away...

[@TheEnd-vn9rb]

Just want to say I’ve been following you for a bit now and really enjoy your content. It is the type of channel I’ve always looked for with music/gear. I like the unconventional approaches while still conventional. Just the out of the box thinking is great! Keep it coming!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thank you kindly 🙏 and thanks for following the channel!

[@evadtregnab1]

You are doping a great job of keeping us up to date on what is new for working musicians. Thanks

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thank you 🙏

[@caryrodriguez7040]

Dang Scott, this is a sweet solution. Appreciate the video on this. I'm definitely going to get this. 👍

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Nice! Glad to help

[@kevinmac55]

One of the challenges I've found with audio over CAT solutions is the shielded CAT6 cables are very stiff and don't uncoil easily. Nothing wrong with the audio quality and it works like a charm. I've fallen back to the old CAT 5 unshielded cables that are very flexible (I don't run power to the mics on stage). But audio over CAT is the way to go!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

I can see that for sure, I know what you mean!

[@dbfsound8269]

You can buy specific touring cat cables which are strong but very soft and flexible that coil easily and lay flat like an xlr cable. I have many of them for this purpose.

[@Andrew_O]

I've been looking at products of this style for a long while and have been considering if my my likely use-cases could justify picking one up. Nice to see Radial get into this given their background in high-end DI's so I'm sure their quality is the very top of the field. Cheers!

[@daniellezcanomadiedo-sm1cz]

Good seeing more solutions to having wires all around, I didn't knew I was cable phobic till I stumbled with your content!!!!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Dude, I get more and more cable phobic as time goes on lol

[@lady_braid]

Cool stuff! Had no idea about this method! Patiently waiting for your video about Dante at some point in the future as I am trying to wrap my head around it

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Dante is definitely more complex! I would love to understand it

[@scottiev77]

I’ve had a different brand that’s like the mini. The tails from the box are long enough that I can get kick snare and two toms without any other xlrs needed.

[@stevesheroan4131]

Same. We run 28 channels over 7 lines. All of the male “tails” are pre-patched into our DL32. Four of the cat5 tails boxes are pre-patched on stage, so 16 of the lines are basically already patched when we run those 4 ethercon lines. We use three tails for our huge drum kit, and two of those tails boxes are already taped to the tom mounts, so 8 of the xlr’s for the kit are right there once the kit is up. We drop a box near the kit for overheads, which is really the only “floating” box we have. We also use them for drive lines to send to FOH for L/R/Center/Sub. Best thing I ever did for speed of setup and teardown, and I’ve had no more issues with them than I have had with traditional cabling, despite using the less costly variety of these items. I have noticed that recently it seems the price of ethercon cables has increased significantly, and I wonder if it’s because these things are becoming more commonplace.

[@morleychallenged]

Radial's always making my favorite shiny stuff.😀

[@mattyp453]

Makes sense for long (100') runs - idk why not just use an xlc snake for side-of-the stage setups - but its a neat option. On another note - Scott....those cables on the floor....what's going on there? Does everyone just throw cables around as long as the ends are where they need to be? Its anarchy! What a mess!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Haha yeah that’s why I always tease them that they gave me my cable phobia!

[@rassabossa4554]

Yeah it triggered my OCD. I so very much wanted to clean that mess up. 😆 What's the saying? If I ever fall out of an airplane, I want a guitar cable nearby because I most assuredly will get tangled up in it.

[@CraigCutler6]

I have massive gig envy watching you guys at that hockey arena. WOW!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

That was a super fun show!

[@mypetdrgn]

Thanks Scott! Radial makes great stuff and I too DETEST stage spaghetti !

[@ScottUhlMusic]

“Stage spaghetti” is a brilliant term for it!

[@brackmay518]

Thanks, Scott! I always enjoy your videos

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thank you 🙏

[@bballgod237]

SpectreSoundStudios covered the Lyx Pro cat5 version of these a while back and I immediately bought two of them. They are so damn useful on stage. I put one each side of our stage and that gives all the XLR hookups I need for both myself and our bassist, and also leaves a string to hook up the FOH mains with an adapter!

[@newmeutube1]

Awesome video Scott. Been thinking of using these for my band.

[@oneminuteguitarlessons6060]

Like you, I have a cable phobia. Tripping over them or pulling over a speaker drive me crazy. Radial makes great stuff but I had actually already bought the mini-version by one of their competitors. Great stuff and that rack mount unit is very intriguing. Great video. Thanks.

[@bassnsax]

DANG and WOW! I knew audio-over-ethernet was *a thing*, but hadn't really looked into it. BUT, these are SUPER AFFORDABLE, and I might potentially set up a little Catapult system in my home recording studio, to set up my synths and amps away from my interface! Awesome video, Scott!!! 🙌

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Nice! Glad the video was helpful 🤘🤘

[@musiciansmomentumofficial]

just writing a comment to support this amazing channel. Thanks for yet another helpful and fantastic video!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thank you, I really appreciate that 🤘

[@briankelm]

Replay!!! Good video Scott!!! Been a Radial DI fan for years!!!

[@paullongden-musician7113]

Thank you Scott. Currently looking for something like this

[@Darielcummins]

Currently have 10x GearIT’s version of this in play with our dLive system instead of huge analog snakes. Instead of using an analog snake + long XLRs to connect the DM48 and all of our individual inputs on stage, we run direct lines from our DM48 to our inputs and it makes everything cleaner and a lot easier. Plus it’s shielded CAT cable which is easy to replace and get either longer or shorter runs.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Oh nice!

[@dazzer1730]

Great review Scott. Our band have been using this system for a few years. It’s fantastic and very fast to set up. We use the Sssnake system from Thomann which is much cheaper. 👍

[@okimotdm]

Another great video thank you. These 4 Xlr sets are perfect.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Agreed! 🤘

[@scottproaudio]

These systems are best run with shielded Cat5/6 if at all possible imho. Good video Scott once again. 👍

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Yup that’s true 👍 and thank you!

[@DustySeven7]

A tip for you when using the rack version like you showed or running multple minis to the same area. They make quad channel ethernet snake cable. Its 4 cat5e or cat6a cables in 1 outer sheath. You can buy it premade or buy in bulk from redco audio and make your own. redco also has a 2 channel version. Using something like that gets the cables down even more

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Oh nice!! That’s good to know

[@tonepilot]

One word of caution. I used to be a LAN/WAN engineer and ethernet cables aren’t as robust as XLR cables. Bring a lot of spares. You can’t go wrong with Radial though, they make tank-like products. Great review.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Those Ethercon cables are super reliable I’ve found!

[@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup]

The locking RJ45 aren't your typical LAN cable.

[@tonepilot]

@@XIIMonkeysMusicGroup Ahh, good to know. Haven’t used these yet and just thought they were reg Cat 5 ethernet cables with an XLR style head.

[@cletusrobinson]

This is pretty cool. Would you suggest using armored cable for ultimate protection?😊

[@Palvader]

This is pretty cool! I would happily pick up a pair of the rack transmitter + receiver, if it were $125/pair.

[@BosqueBrothers]

I've looked at the minis before, and think I will consider again because of your video. I love Radial gear and use a couple of their DI boxes. Damn, I wish I would have known you were going to be in Santa Fe; I would've driven up to see you from Albuquerque if it was a public event. I'll have to keep an eye out for you in the future.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thanks man! And yeah it was for a wedding, so it wasn’t open to the public

[@basssalad]

Very cool! Wish the Rackmount versions were 16 Channels. This way I would only need one for my MR18! I've seen 16 XLRs on 1 space panels before.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

I could see that! But they wouldn’t be able to fit all 16 channels in 1U so I see why they went with 12

[@basssalad]

@@ScottUhlMusic How come they can fit 16 XLRs across the Midas DN4816-O ?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

@@basssalad ahhh fair point!

[@edburdo]

We have a Behringer X32. And we have a stage snake. It uses Cat 5 (Ethercon) to connect, so it's nice to only run one cable... and I think 16/8 inputs/outputs? Something like that. I can really see where this would be great for the smaller or more portable (or even the less-homogeneous setups - mixing/matching gear).

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Yeah I have the S16 as well for my 32 and it’s amazing!

[@ger_DSZ]

Yet another great video. Thank you!

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@MTBPerspective]

I’ve played on house systems using something like this and it is slick, especially for running a bunch of in-ear mixers like p16 for those that do not need to be wireless. I’d say always use shielded - not that much more and totally worth it.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Agreed, use shielded whenever you can!

[@bladesteel9738]

Nice to learn so new

[@DanielEdwards-]

Worth mentioning you can run DMX over these things and audio at the same time. Handy for getting everything to one location easily, particularly if you have your powered speakers mounted up near the lighting.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Can you really? Thats killer! I didn’t know that

[@DanielEdwards-]

@@ScottUhlMusic Oh yes sir, the cat5 cable is typically the same resistance as DMX cable, so the data will run for miles successfully, particularly as the data rate is much slower than Ethernet. Even over crappy cat5.

[@richardreymusic]

I have these products. I have it in a rack with the Mackie dl16s already wired up in the rack. So I just have to connect my mic guitar etc and then connect via cat 5. Super fast set up/breakdown

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Sweet! 🤘🤘

[@T-GamesYT]

Hey Scott, I just recently got a new budget IEM system from Debra, the ST-102. I'd be very interested if you did a review on it as it seems like a good system to me so far, keep up the great work.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Thanks! They reached out to have me do a video on it, but they needed it done too soon (and I like to test out my gear), so we couldn’t make it work. Maybe sometime down the road though!

[@shakarocks]

Lyx, the maker of your cable, also makes a version similar to the Minis. They have worked flawlessly for me.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Oh nice! Thats good to know

[@tinsweep]

Those are the ones I use, they work great!

[@taz9456]

Great channel

[@1stLukecifer]

I’m using the Derrick Smalls CAT 11 cables; because sometimes you’re at 10 & need to go to eleven.

[@MichaelDaniels]

great job as usual

[@annebokma4637]

I am using an usb audio interface connected to a mini pc running Dante via. Cheapest way to get audio ports on the network.

[@kennyholliday7492]

❤ Thx Scott

[@modellking]

I use such Setup for my Synth - I throw an armored cable with 2x S/FTP CAT7 from 2x EtherCat in an on-stage Rack to sssnake Breakouts for the Stage-Box. They are much cheaper thou (22€)

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Oh nice! 🤘

[@mjakubisin]

One thing I wonder is if signal can be bidirectional? If I get a radial receiver rack, with the right cables, could use 1 of 4 or the xlrs in a grouping to send monitor mix to mini to extra / long reduce cable run for a floor monitor or wired IEM I het meticulous with stage cable management but not everyone does. Basically I can see giving each band member a mini and let them set it up themselves including their floor wedge or wired IEM signal

[@ScottUhlMusic]

One of the FAQ is how it can be bidirectional 👍

[@MattLunser]

Thanks for the video. Helpful as always. I'm a novice, but if you're using Behringer X32, wouldn't the SD-16 be better option? I think you can do 16 channels on one cable vs 4 to 1 with this option. Maybe I'm wrong on how that works...

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Yup you definitely can! And in the situation that I showed for show 3, that would be the better option which is why I mentioned it in the video. But like the xr18 doesn’t have that, so it works well for something like that (and is cheaper). But good question!

[@MattLunser]

Shoot, sorry I missed you mentioning it. Thanks again.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

@@MattLunser no worries man! But yeah it works great if you have the 32 🤘

[@okimotdm]

Radial- pls make a bundle - 4 pack of male/female and cat cable w some savings. Hard to justify replacing snakes when we only need to replace a couple xlrs now and then

[@ScottUhlMusic]

That would be nice if they did a bundle!

[@moroboshidan7960]

3:47 wait. when the video started I thought it would be some kind of audio protocol over Ethernet. With no power, are they using the cat-5 as balanced cables and that's it? edit: I just checked their site and it's exactly it. Well, you don't have to worry about latency, I guess.

[@zmmmzmmmz]

Somehow cheaper and more expensive than I imagined at the same time... With four cables is it just using the wiring as wires? No modem... Just analog - a nice version of just splitting open the cat5 and hand wiring it?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

How it works? I have no idea hahaha I just know that it does 🤘

[@jasonlajuene2036]

tension on cables phobia ! SLACK SLACK them cables !

[@ScottUhlMusic]

😂 😂😂

[@djpgreek]

How long are the attached XLRs on the mini? They don't seem that long. I'm curious about using catapult and the other mini to reduce cables runs but I worry that I'll need to run 10 -15 foot XLR cables and daisy chain them onto the 4 catapult mini XLRS. At that point is it worth it?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Yeah they are pretty short. Like around 1-2 feet. Some cables I attached to extend it, but I think they are the right length for what they do and still being compact 👍

[@jef4sberg]

Hey Scott, will this only work using theTX-RX or if we have an XR18 can I run the CAT 5/6 directly into the XR18 using just the TX?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

You would need the Tx/Rx 👍

[@RobvandenBoogaard]

Should this work with the 4 cable method with a pedal board?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

I don’t know, I don’t use 4CM personally

[@FS-il7fd]

In case I want to send signal back and forth by a 4-bay terminal can I just switch plug from male to female and do so?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

I believe so, they answer that a little in the FAQ section 👍

[@MasonKutin]

how would you send to speakers and or wired in ear (ex. Behringer p2)?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

With xlr 👍

[@MasonKutin]

​@@ScottUhlMusic yes

[@chrisw1462]

If you hate cables that much, you should go digital. One Cat5 cable up to 100 ft. A bit expensive, though.

[@Elniniss]

I have so much cable phobia, I have eliminated them from my setup. Isn’t a stagebox a better option than these?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

It can be yeah, and I mention that in the video. It just depends what your needs are. The custom lengths and other features can make this one better, but it all depends 🤘

[@chadowe]

Wait until they make an “SFP” version wherein you can use fiber optic cables.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

🤯🤯🤯

[@mckmckmckmckmck]

so they are mini snakes?

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Mini snakes with splitting and custom cable lengths 👍

[@averypowell975]

I got mine on express for $15. The radial ones look nice and sturdy, but for something that is incredibly simple I’d rather buy the cheapo one. You can also just solder yourself a pretty ugly one for essentially no money

[@ScottUhlMusic]

You can always find cheaper products for sure. I hope they work, the radial ones are extremely sturdy and well built 🤘

[@AlexisGitarre]

THE PROBLEM: Those 4 Lines over CAT are having a SHARED GROUND and NOT COMMON GROUND. Which means, they all share one line for the Ground. This can be really problematic with certain Consols, Ground hum Isolation and Phantom Power. Keep that in mind and always have some normal cables as Backup. Honestly it works 90% of the time but if you hit the other 10% it really sucks.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Ah… good to know! Thanks for the comment

[@jjptech]

First

[@picklerick589]

You want a f***ing medal or something?

[@DavidPerez-dg8sb]

Second

[@Dis-Emboweled]

HO-LEE-CITT! Not lugging a 1000lb snake before and after a show?!? $300 is worth 3 chiro visits! 😂😂😂😂 And I'm old

[@ScottUhlMusic]

Hahaha yup!!

[@luciferforpresident]

Why not just go with Dante. One cat cable 64 channels no problem

[@ScottUhlMusic]

If you can afford something with Dante and understand it, it’s very powerful!

[@thill47]

The catapult rack: Why run 4 ethernet cables ? Why not 1 ethernet cable for all the inputs. Might as well run a analogue snake.

[@ScottUhlMusic]

I believe CAT is only able to run 4 lines of audio per cable

[@astrokratov_official]

Analog snake is heavy as hell

[@sp0rtbilly77]

and isn't it ironic

[@elambassist]

maybe the other guitar player checks the weather. before he subs you out. :).

[@ScottUhlMusic]

😂😂😂