Guardsmen vs Conscripts vs Veterans - Imperial Guard Infantry Comparison

[@Yakkahboo]

Man, I feel like IG Veterans should be the Obsec exception among elite choices. The whole point of IG is that they are an obsec army. Pour guardsmen onto point and hold, regardless of their promotions.

[@themos9751]

thematically it would be amazing if all infantry in the IG got obsec. It would fit the IG well; throw every man, woman, and child onto the objective or (and) die trying. Balance-wise I'd be absolutely terrified. It would be nice if Veterans (and special weapon squads IMO) got obsec like you said

[@miklow6605]

I would say for every faction that all their Core infantry should get obsec.

[@jjkingish]

They need to just make the troops choices. And then have platoons to differentiate them between normal guardsmen.

[@philippschmitz1787]

@@jjkingish Like it once was a few editions ago...

[@jjkingish]

@@philippschmitz1787 100% We need to bring back the guard of 5e where you had platoons and vets and conscripts. Vets aren't good enough to take up an elites spot. And command squads shouldn't just be 4 man heavy weapons teams, they should be there to help the officer do their thing better. GW treats guard like a SM army, which means it just can't hang.

[@ryanmarquez9404]

I'm a new player and I picked the guard so these vids help alot....appreciate brother keep up the good work 💪

[@Pikilloification]

Well don't expect these guys to kill much. They're great to hold the board and be a nuisance, but that's pretty much it. The tanks and artillery's where the meat is at.

[@rodneygaul2227]

@@Pikilloification you can still go all infantry , very affective. But a lot of painting and money plus long games as you need 200+ troops .

[@johnd7828]

Same here

[@rodneygaul2227]

@@johnd7828 welcome to the "200+ model club" . Orders will make or break you ( 1st rank , 2nd rank + move , move ) vox caster ( so officers can hide ) and get as many officers as you can get on field ( for orders and keep them bare bones ) . A lot are going with bulgren as cheap and tough , but not needed . Flashlights ( lasguns ) are very effective if you fire enough of them at troops . Even Smurfs ( Ultra marines ) fail saving throws .

[@rodneygaul2227]

Expect to lose most of your army , but win by points if you play objectives and 2nd arys as appont will alwas take "thin the ranks" against you

[@slamindorf5478]

Bring back Penal Legion units! those random quirk rolls were really fun, i remember one of my penal squads in 5e rolling the fearless trait and tied up a hive tyrant for a full turn that was about to crash into my tanks

[@owenthomas8822]

Conscripts with wilderness survivors gives you light cover. Give a psyker the dagger of tusakh. Drop them on on an objective and they have a very likely 2+ save.

[@19platten20]

Veterans and Command Squads were so rad in 3rd Edition....what happened man? Veterans should have obsec though. PLEASE ADD THIS TO THE NEXT FAQ GAMES WORKSHOP!!! Because you can't make an all veteran guard army if the veterans have no obsec...this stinks Never take havey weapon squads (except mortars), put those heavy guns in the meatshield a guard unit is.

[@Kalbot84]

I love my vets and I use them broadly but I also love my regulars and even conscripts when I use them. There's a lot of fluffy fun to be had imagining the few lucky ones who make it all the way from bullet sponge conscripts to deadly plasma toting veterans. But yea, ObSec on vets would make all of the sense and it sucks, and also lots of non troop units from other armies, and even IG (Lemon Russ tanks I'm looking at you) can ObSec so yeah, dumb. P.S. Command squads can feel like their pulling their weight sat on the backfield with a HWT Las or Auto Cannon, a radio and a medic or sniper, with a CC behind them using their radio to send a network of orders out while they shave wounds off the heavy stuff.

[@kainiemi4895]

Or bring back platoons. Those were interesting and fluffy

[@19platten20]

@@Kalbot84 I want a catachan veteran exclusive army but I wait until they get buffed somehow

[@19platten20]

@@kainiemi4895 those were the days

[@muninrob]

I think my favorite opponent was an IG player that started with a conscript based army and every time he lost all but one model out of a squad he added a veteran to his list. Normally by adding battle damage and extra equipment to the actual model that survived. Not sure how "legal" his "veterans" were, but I never heard any major complaints - I'd like to think that's how legends like Yarik and Marbo come about. (Never was sure of the official stance on model conversion - but the stats & gear were kosher)

[@clydeside3994]

Bring back penal legion troopers!

[@DJCallidus]

There is a 'home rules'made PDF avaliable for 8th for a penal Regiment. The get squad buffs to represent their experience. You can also kill loads of them to ignore moral. Features Colonel Schaffer & Last Chancers too. Fun.

[@isaacchapman7628]

I bought my friend's 120 conscripts so I've been trying to figure out how to actually use them. Gluing an astropath to one and buffing them to be more useful seems like a worthy points investment.

[@madprophet6891]

Just say they're regular Guardsmen and save yourself the headache and heartache. If having astropaths buffing conscripts is good (and good on you for recognizing the value of astropaths over psykers/primaris), imagine how much better it will be to buff a unit that doesn't actively work against you the moment a dice roll doesn't go your way.

[@blindmonkeyman3960]

Make sure you stick a commissar on them, keep their squad at decent levels after getting shot.

[@Brisarious]

@@blindmonkeyman3960 or another astropath to make them fearless

[@blindmonkeyman3960]

That would probably be best

[@jjkingish]

I just think they need to bring back platoons. Have 2-3 squads with a command squad per troops choice or a blob of conscripts or single veteran units. This way it feels more fluffy, blobs of conscripts, platoons for normal green guardsmen and then veterans that are what is left of a platoon. The way this is done is just dumb. Having left in 5e and back at the end of 8e, not having platoons is super noticeable. Makes the whole army feel bad.

[@WarbossFraka]

On the other hand, Platoons where awful to play against. Having your opponent field +300 infantry models and just sit on objectives is really boring.

[@jjkingish]

@@WarbossFraka I mean, it’s what the IG play style is still right now. Just they’re not constructed well. Platoon command squads are just melts/plasma outflankers, officers are elites/hq and things like veterans are the odd men out. 5e was into a lot vs the current iteration of guard. Lots more flavor and with more rigid structure. I get it’s not fun though to play against large blobs. But maybe the rule of 3 applies it so you can only have 180 in 3 6 squad platoons.

[@WarbossFraka]

@@jjkingish Platoons would be troops which I am pretty sure the rule of 3 doesn't apply. I understand is fluffy and all but its truly awful 4/5ths of the game being your opponents turn.

[@jjkingish]

@@WarbossFraka I mean, it’s already a long turn. But guard aren’t really playable as is without hoards.They were in 5e because LR had 14 front armor. That meant you could tank a ton of shots. I already field 200+ infantry already and it’s fine. But it’s disorganized and I’m taking up elites slots for officers who are in charge of platoons. That’s dumb. Command squads are broken and 4 guys take up a whole slot. They shouldn’t be balls of plasma death. They should be support troopers. And rule of 3 could apply in a new codex. Really hypothetical though. But 3-4 platoons would be thematic and make guard play like they’re supposed to play. Instead of being chopped up. Should IG be able to run infantry with no officers. No, that’s just not how it’s supposed to work. Shouldn’t be possible to just ignore the basic structure of the IG and run 3 tank commanders with no infantry officer. That’s just silly. We’re talking about the same number of models. Just forcing guard players to take a good chunk of actual troops instead of 175points of troops plus what amounts to a vanguard/outrider/spearhead detachments. Like I want this to force guard to take more points of troops. 3 platoons of a min of 6 squads at 55 points plus 30 for each officer and command squad. It works better. I shouldn’t essentially get the benefits of specialist detachments without paying for them.

[@knightpaladin9841]

I'd rather not have to buy 3 boxes of guardsmen and a command squad box just to run 1 troop choice thanks

[@TheAlterspark]

Alternative idea, throw Krieg combat engineers at the enemy and always wound on 2+ with gas grenades lol

[@Chadegon1693]

They are in legends now... so either find someone who doesnt care or ....

[@Lupercal210]

@@Chadegon1693 Combat Engineers are one of the few things that have not been made legends from DKoK.

[@Chadegon1693]

@@Lupercal210 ah yes i switched them with grenadiers... do dkok have a strat to throw more then 1 grenade? Else its a pretty expensice grenade for a squad that dies next turn

[@andrewwebb2257]

@@Chadegon1693 yes they do. A 1CP stratagem called Grenadiers that is available to any guard unit equipped with grenades.

[@TheAlterspark]

@@andrewwebb2257 The engineers also have the sapper ability now for some deep strike ability.

[@malekiththeeternityking5433]

Take Guardsmens fam

[@mcole5780]

I appreciate this run down, I’ve run 30 conscripts with inquisitor coteaz and 2 astropaths, I’ve also done the strategic reserve special weapons squads. Both are nice combos. Lately tho I’ve been running all scions for troops and artillery in a separate detachment

[@GheyForGames]

Should have mentioned the 12 melta valk bomb that can basically alpha strike almost anything off the table turn 1

[@thediceguys4623]

Great work as ever brother its really great seeing how you've grown over the last few months! keep it up man! much love from us

[@curtislangdon8294]

An argument can be made for heavy weapon squads. Granted they are fragile for thier potential damage out put but they can more cheap than most tanks and gain the benefit of cover and other forms of support to make killing them more trouble than the effort is worth. Also realize that part of guards durability lies in redundancy as mush as toughness, so if you have more heavy weapons tems than your opponent can shoot off the board in one turn (as opposed to leman russ tanks which are not nearly as spammable) than 1, you still have at least one set of heavy weapons to make thier points back and 2, all thos shots fired at the heavy weopons teams means less shots at your troops on the front lines (since this is an objetive games and part of the play for gaurd is to lure the enemy to kill things your okay with losing short term if it means winning the game long term). There's also the cheap value alongside with conbinations to help make back their points. 3 autocannon HWS (meaning 9 autocannons) are five points cheaper than the cheapest base cost for a leman russ (150 points, to the tanks 155). So the enemy would have to split some of thier fire or use multiple units to overkill (which as stated before could be to your advantage if they don't kill any obsec units as well, and they don't score two secondary objectives to your enemy like tanks do). Futher more thier damage output can be enhabced by the concentrated fire strat, which is amazing effective on autocannons, giving 6 shots of str 7 damage 2 a +1 to hit and +1 to wound against a single target, meaning that T 5-6 units your wounding on 2+ and T 7 targets on 3+. Add this to order re-rolls (both if you can trigger laurels of command) and you can stack some consistent damage from one squad to make back their points, and if you lose one just do it again with the surviving squad. Thier are some defensive buffs to use to make shooting them down more trouble than the effort is worth such as Bullgryns wall of flesh strat to give enemy fire -1 to hit, psychic barrior and take cover strat, or even inquisitor psychic invul save on top of psychic barrier. Then again this buffs work just as well protecting conscript blobs so its a matter of choosing which is worth protecting more at the moment.

[@Kalbot84]

I've had some really good success with using Plasma Veterans as an outflanking bomb. I'm running a custom Guard regiment with disciplined shooters for double shots on rapid fire weapons at 18" instead of 12" and wilderness survivors for a cover bonus in open terrain so long as the unit hasn't advanced. I run the vets with 3 plasma guns and a Las Cannon HWT, thats 110 pts if I counted correctly and I usually toss a plasma pistol on the sergeant and sometimes a power sword too as for 5 pts it's kinda just an auto take at this point. They can outflank with a platoon commander for another 25 pts, or 30 if you decide to toss a plasma pistol on him too (which I usually do) and this keeps the whole lot of them under 9 power, in the 1 CP cost range. The platoon commander can issue the re-roll ones to hit order and with the 18" double shots the plasma gunners can usually get off six overcharged shots with relative saftey at something juicy. I've not run the numbers but around 1 in 3/4 games I get a double 1 re-roll and loose a gunner but it rarely matters. Combined with the Las Cannon, which hits on 4+ from having moved to outflank, still isn't bad and you can always spend that CP re-roll if you need to, or don't roll a 1. I usually combine this with a Scion melta squad drop or some other big distraction but if the squad gets targeted by anti infantry fire they get a 4 up save standard from the wilderness survivors perk which takes away the random element of finding a spot to outflank that also has good cover, and a 3 up if you want to spend a CP to get them to hit the dirt. For another 1 power, and still within the 1 CP cost to outflank (8 power total now) you could even include a gang of Wyrdvanes in this jolly little party to put psycic barrier on them to bring the save down to a 2 up although I haven't tested this. Anyway, thanks to anyone who is still reading this diatribe and thanks for the awesome channel that teaches me loads of usefull stuff Edit: Wyrdvanes are only 1 power so you could, if you were feeling really cheeky, put 2 gangs of them into the outflank bomb and either double your chances to manifest the barrier or possibly even throw nightshroud on the vets too. This is an awful lot of points and work and what have you to get ten vets through a shooting round but your enemy really has to honour the threat they pose or suffer and the more firepower they waste dislodging these guys the less is hitting everyone else.

[@caringcommissar4600]

I've enjoyed this video and it's given me more ideas on how I can run my list. St the moment I've got 5 infantry units and all the tanks. Maybe running some conscripts for cheaper obsec and blobs for the opponent to deal with doesn't sound bad. My infantry are there for the objective game my tanks do the boom.

[@anthonysauls1446]

Remember, Death Korps are technically just Guard now. In terms of the "delivered" category I think that Engineers, overall, outshines them all. The ability to have a natural deep strike without needing to spend cp is nice and arguably more flexible than outflank, and while its true that lacking the ability to take special weapons is a fair enough downside, their assault 3 S4 shotguns at bs3+ are a huge damage dealing counter argument. Especially when you take into consideration they have acid gas bombs which is amazing with the grenadiers stratagem. On another note, they do also have a sv4+ compared to vets, conscripts, and infantry squads' 5+ and they can be brought in small 5 man squads if you desire more versitility for object grabbing. All at 8 points per model, which to be fair is a bit more expensive than counter parts mentioned but i have found its still very cheap for how useful they are. (These guys are like the one thing from dkok im 100% happy with from the fw compendium)

[@virado255]

Given the choice I would rather take Krieg grenadiers over any of the other types of guard infantry. especially given the price hike regular infantry got. You just get so much more for a small points increase. 7ppm better statline, better armor, better guns, and are troops so obsec

[@ericcramer7849]

I always ran a 40 man conscript mob every game back in 3rd and 4th when they were 4pts a model. An insane return on investment every time.

[@LittleIAO]

I'd like to see a video similar to this about Cultists. Specifically in Death Guard but also if and when they may be even worth taking in general.

[@heraissilly]

I personally love veterans in chimeras with steel legion and the emperors blade assualt company. those were the days

[@curtislangdon8294]

There is a way to get some more milage out of Concripts. Credit to Modian Glory for the idea. If you give a Commissar or a Lord Commisar the Master of Command Warlord Trait, the Commisar gains the ability to give 1 order, and since the Commissar is not an officer nor gains the officer keyword from the trait, he can order concripts whitout having to roll for it, although since he isn't an officer you can't give him an additional order with the inspiring command strat. If you want to stay cheap just use a normal commisar, the only real reason to use a Commissar Lord is because he's the best unit to give a powerfist to for some extra punch agaisnt enemy units trying to shift the conscripts or the concripts are bogging down.

[@timkreis8543]

Just as a little idea, if I get those transport rules right: Take a Stormlord (Vostroya) and stuff it with 3 command squads and 2 special weapon squads, put first born pride on the Stormlord and you get +1 to hit for all the guys inside. Now you have RF12 2+ and RF8 3+ plasma/melta coming out of this beast... also to add more cheese you could make those guys Cadian for reroll 1 when stationary, so if the Stormlord is stationary, they reroll 1s Not extremely strong because of how bad Baneblade variants are right now, but noteworthy in my opinion

[@commanderhawk1109]

Literally sitting here painting guardsmen and this video auto plays. Kinda sus ngl. Great video!

[@MojaveWolfe]

I really hope the 9th edition guard codex brings back platoons

[@VinceTenia]

honestly conscripts should only cost 3 points per model; 1 for the man, 1 for the flak jacket and 1 for the gun.

[@randomlygeneratedname]

They used to

[@Bluecho4]

I can think of one additional point to consider when selecting what kind of unit to field: cost (as in cost in real money). Conscripts, despite being weaker units, are paradoxically more expensive to buy into when starting out.

[@Chris-jl6vp]

Lots of people say Veterans should get obsec as well, but I say to hell with that it's a waste of elite slots when you could run Bullgryns instead. Vets have better aim, better weapons choices, if packed into a chimera and driven to a nice juicy tank or character, they could tear them apart with plasma/meltagun fire. Although, I guess Tempestus Scions could be used in the same way.

[@DJCallidus]

Stick three Command Squad with 3 x Flamers and a Heavy Flamer in a 2 x Heavy Flamer Chimera. They can bring the pain, even to small elite squads. Conscripts are good in blocks. The Laurels of Command can help with getting them to follow orders. Still swingy but what isnt? Thanks for the vid.

[@curtislangdon8294]

If your running this in Catachan regiments, I'd recommend Veterans with Full Flamers and heavy flamer instead. That way you can order them to burn them out! So they can re-roll the number of flamer shots and use the experienced eye strat to give all those flamers (and the thier lasguns or shotguns) 1+ ap value for max damage output. Alternatively, for long range you can outfit them with an autocannon team and grenade launchers, and use the concentrated fire strat to give them + 1 to hit and wound when firing the same target, on top of experienced eye to give thier weapons extra ap.

[@DJCallidus]

@@curtislangdon8294 Yeah that's ture enough. I run Cadians. I do similar with my Scions. They loose the Heavy Flamers but as they're ran as 'Lambdan Lions' they gain - 1 AP. They can drop down anywhere too so can use this to assassinate characters.

[@Neoncookies1111]

Chaos guard when

[@Ignisrex]

you can consoldate squads on infantry squads which can be done on free squads. the about 10 points and 1 CP, I feel like having the same field advantage like conscripts but muxh more reliable troops is worth it, also you don't need to spend the CP right away only once it is better to be a blob

[@doombringer175]

Is there a reason (outside of fluff) that vets shouldn't be a troop choice? Would it break the game given (in theory) you could already take 6 in a battalion detachment as is?

[@aidanquiett668]

It would make army makeups even more wonky, since it would mean you could avoid taking any infantry squads and just run a pure glass hammer damage list

[@linkofvev]

@@aidanquiett668 They could circumvent that by adding a rule similar to the one Poxwalkers/Cultists have in Death Guard. Say, 1 unit of conscripts or Guardsmen for every Vet squad.

[@doombringer175]

@@linkofvev But that would actually decrease the number we could take. as compared to right now.

[@darko-man8549]

@@aidanquiett668 what’s so bad about that? Imperial guard should have extreme variety

[@TheMostSlyFox]

You literally could take all vet armies for like 5 editions... morons think Guard with Platoons again is the end of the world. Meanwhile marines re roll every die roll and get t5 3 wound troops lol

[@TheCommunistColin]

Something I saw is that if you give a Lord Commissar Master of Command, it can auto-pass orders on Conscripts because it lacks the Officer keyword and therefore the Raw Recruits ability doesn't come into effect. Do you think that this is working as intended, or is likely to be FAQ'd?

[@tomasdawe4423]

I think special weapon squads should be heavy support not elite, they have the same makeup (6 men 3 guns) as heavy weapons teams and provide the same role of fire support.

[@89334726]

With the morale beign a bad joke in 9th (seriously, odds of losing extra models same for say SM and Conscript) and the difference in LD only 3 for reg guard vs Conscript there really isn't much reason in picking reg guardsmen... If we could get inf platoons back things would be different. As far as firepower goes....Yeah, don't bring regular guardsmen for that.

[@WarbossFraka]

They really need to redo moral or at least reduce leadership across the board by 1-2 so you can checks more often.

[@andrewwebb2257]

Veterans with the Hades. Watch your opponent wet himself when he finds them in charge range on turn 2....

[@danielw.6992]

I want these imperial prison guys back from the 6th or 7th Edition. Was a lot of DIN to Play them on the table. But GW needs to spend some fuckin Love to the Guard... thats herectic.. hope we gonna see some new stuff in october this year

[@slamindorf5478]

penal legion were cool! i played with them in 5th and they were fun with the random quirk roll, i remember a squad of my insane fearless penal soldiers holding down a hive tyrant for a turn despite losing like 7/10 of them

[@coltonlong2223]

Command squad with 4 melta in a hades breaching drill. 145 points of "I diagnose you with dead." anywhere more than 9' away from a big target or two. And yes, command squads CAN go in hades drills because they have the [VEYERANS]

[@markhohenbrink5230]

I would like to give an honorable mention to full flamer veterans. The strat that increases their damage output by making their flamers ap 1 or heavy flamers ap 2 makes them brutal against anything other than vehicles.

[@1nicerboi759]

Yes exactly how I run mine. Bonus points for "Emperors sword" specialist detachement, which has a strat that enables them to disembark at the END of your movement phase. Company Commander can get a WT to issue Orders from a Chimera plus laurels of command.

[@richarddixon1450]

The imperial guard really do need some more variety in the troops section dont they lol. Long las ranger style guardsmen would be cool. Little bit like the tanith. Heavier armoured breacher type squad. Actual conscript models. They could be have a bit of fun with those sculpts.

[@KalashVodka175]

All of those exists in the lore, so its just a matter of GW making rules for those

[@richarddixon1450]

@@KalashVodka175 exactly. Hoping for a be revamp and extention of the range in future

[@richarddixon1450]

Big revamp*

[@JoshMC2000]

I got a question is the killteam box useable in 40k?

[@emc8366]

Was the whole 'commisar with voice of command not being an officer and thus not being subject to 4+ on orders for conscripts' ever solved with an faq?

[@louisprimel5980]

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, that's a shenanigan we can still use

[@GheyForGames]

What's this?

[@lemanruss7218]

Holy shit I just saw this, that's awesome. Hope they never faq it because Commisars should invoke the fear of the Emperor into men

[@lemanruss7218]

@@GheyForGames the wording in conscripts is "when an OFFICER uses the voice of command ability" and Commisars don't have the officer keyword in their datasheet

[@RandyMcStabDCM]

@@lemanruss7218 Wow I never noticed that, it's funny and fluffy, must be a mistake.

[@thuranz2773]

I feel that veterans shouldn't be charged more for special weapons. It makes more sense to give the veterans the good stuff due to their skill and experience. Especially since they're generally allowed to raid the armoury without penalty in fluff.

[@Zombine45]

I want to see veteran heavy weapon squads in the next codex. sucks that you have to take a veteran squad or a command squad to get your heavy weapons hitting on a 3+.

[@cethapplegate594]

What you do is get as much cheap infantry as the points allow and charge them in to melee.

[@benthompson374]

In a special weapons squad is it better to take plasma or melta? Does it depend on what I am shooting at? Meltas seem better but I thought I would get a second opinion.

[@randomlygeneratedname]

Melta are better plasma is more consistent.

[@muninrob]

What's the IG heavy weapons squad's longest range weapon these days?

[@simondenelzen]

i want my veterans as troop choice option back!!

[@nathantripathy]

So never use Storm Troopers... got it . Or can you even take them as troop choices anymore? 😢

[@WarbossFraka]

They are troops and are in my experience far more effective then anything else in the guard codex.

[@thenintendobros9918]

Could y'all start increasing the volume of the videos? I feel like it's still a little quiet on full volume

[@oliverp3545]

That's on your end because its plenty loud for me.

[@boycie18]

Yeah it's super loud my end too

[@FunkBastid]

Have you tried increasing the volume on your computer/phone? You should see a speaker icon in the lower right side of the youtube player, or most operating systems will have a speaker icon on the lower right side of your screen. You’ll find a slider if you click on those icons that can increase or lower the volume on your computer and/or the video. Most phones will have a pair of buttons on the side of the phone that can raise or lower the volume as well. Hope this helps :^)

[@e33d90]

@@DataMineNo69 go see a doctor about your hearing

[@TheMostSlyFox]

JUST BRING BACK INFANTRY PLATOONS! We dont need to be as brainless as a space marine list builder as a faction...

[@randomlygeneratedname]

Platoons were easier to work with if you ask me

[@SpaceSpuddd]

I'm a new player, where do I find conscripts? I can't seem to find them 🤔

[@e33d90]

there is no seperate model, the basic guardsman kit is all you have to make them.

[@SpaceSpuddd]

@@e33d90 ahhh, that makes sense. Cheers mate! 🙂

[@Oliver1917th]

I love your vids, but please for the love of my eardrums, compress your vocals! The 'S' sound cuts like a knife.

[@Kepora1]

"Volkaries"

[@TheRunningPigeon]

Datasheet = Valkyries Auspex = Volkaries KZbin = Volcanoes

[@ianrobertpountain8621]

Now tell me scouts are better than eliminators.

[@DarkRaven3000]

Veterans can take drill

[@Axzealot]

I prefer Scions

[@fokinsnipahs9823]

Shite taste.

[@Axzealot]

@@fokinsnipahs9823 why i like deep striking them on objectives their guns are more reliable than lasguns. They hit on 3+ and they are troops. I also can deep strike them with meltas and delete a vehicle

[@corsnake6959]

I hope they really expand Scions weaponry. Right now we have no heavy support nor fast attack (which is hilarous because Tempestus in lore are about striking hard and fast). I consider the Taurox Prime overcosted for what they do, so the only thing left for support are fliers which are heavily limited in amount you can bring (i mean non-valkytie wise). And to my knowledge we suffer a lot against melee heavy armies, but i am newbie so it could be only me.

[@WarbossFraka]

@@fokinsnipahs9823 Scions are the cooler Guard.

[@torinjones3221]

But why include veterans when they're a different unit type