Autocollimator Upgrade: Adapting a Right Angle Eye Piece

In an effort to make my Hilger-Watts Autocollimator much more useful, I made an adapter to mount a Nikon right angle eye piece over the existing eye piece so that I would not have to kneel down to look through the eye piece for each measurement. Turned from a piece of brass on my metal lathe, this simple adapter will make this precision tool much more user friendly!
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[@stephenwilson7641]

Hi Keith -- Number One Rule of Engineering: If it ain't broke, take it apart and make it better! Well done.

[@railfan439]

Keith: Another place to look for optics is Edmund Scientific. Not many people outside of the telescope or high school/college science teachers know about them. Hope to see you at the Bar-Z. Jon

[@stephensteele3553]

This is why you should never skip leg day..... Nice work.

[@brand-x7049]

It was a factory option, just rare as hens' teeth apparently - the guy that did Tom Lipton's surface plates a few years ago had one, and he said it was almost impossible to find one with.

[@robmecklenburg3790]

Now how do you focus? The focus ring you showed at the outset is under the adapter unless I missed something.

[@CXensation]

In line with other suggestions I'd suggest you try a simple cheap USB camera which easily connects to a cellphone, laptop or PC. It does not in any way interfere with the accuracy of your Collimator, it simply tranfers the image in your sight glass on to the screen of you USB connected device. That is the most healthy thing you can do to your spine, neck and legs. Being 67 myself and much like your body style - and I think you're looking good !

[@ramanshah7627]

Optical adapters

[@terminalpsychosis8022]

That 3/4" drill made some beautiful music.

[@paulbull1993]

Hi Keith, just a quick note to mention my appreciation for the time and effort you put int making these videos.

[@BruceBoschek]

Nice job. My whole career was spent looking through oculars or onto electron-microscope screens and I know how important it is to be comfortable when using an optical instrument. I just watched part of this with the sound off so as not to disturb my wife who is working on one of her artistic pies and I noticed something that made me smile: A piece of metal - chucking it up - facing it off - centre drill - small drill - medium drill - large drill - boring bar. When you have done this work or watched enough shop videos you know right away what will come next. I smiled because I caught myself giving a running dialogue on what would be next. Thanks Keith. Always enjoy the videos.

[@iancraig1951]

Good stuff Keith--enjoyed it a lot and I did not know such instruments existed--E

[@adco]

That long introduction was very well said. Great communicator 👍

[@mikebaldwin9972]

Comfort when using any tool is an improvement in efficiency, and it saves old body’s as well.....

[@charlescompton4495]

I like Mr. Bender's idea along with what you have. Both great ideas, Greg.

[@johnalgar4747]

That has given me a great idea of how to solve a different problem I have - using that same method. Thank you

[@RCAFpolarexpress]

Good day Sir, very good improvement for sure !!! 👍

[@jeffreypfeifer862]

Good to see you add this mod... was wondering when it was coming ;) Thanks for sharing Keith!

[@kokodin5895]

why won't you adapt this thing to a microscope camera instead of an eyepiece so you can see the output on a big screen or just a monitor? it could be even more accurate because you would rule out human error

[@johng8473]

Good idea Keith. Nice when you can make a tool more useful, and easier to work with. Love your videos, Thanks and please keep them coming.

[@garymucher9590]

A simple CCD camera chip and a small sleave would make it beyond great. And they make very small CCD cameras for such things. Then you merely slide in on and watch via a monitor. No more back pain or bending over and you can even see the results from across the room if you like... Remember, work smarter. not harder... Had to use that stupid line from hearing in so much!

[@chucktodd7329]

Keith, one upgrade you might think about would be to replace the set screw with an O-ring, use the friction of the the oversized O-ring to allow you to adjust the viewing angle without needing tools. Also it would allow you to dismount the ocular quickly.

[@CathyInBlue]

I'd get a Raspberry Pi and the new 12 MP camera module. Install the camera module directly to the autocollimator and have a cable off to the Pi and from there, HDMI off to a large format monitor. Then, you can see what the autocollimator is reading from across the shop. I was thinking about this while watching the videoes of the scraping of the shaper ways.

[@bcbloc02]

Looks like this is Keith’s new favorite tool. 😎

[@lesbender236]

How about making an adapter for a camera,then hook it to a monitor and you won't even have to bend over!

[@K-Effect]

Les Bender You are 100% correct, that is the only way to go. He said 250 times he had to look into that scope, let's get that down to zero.

[@StevenAndrews]

Everyone needs a little exercise.

[@JWimpy]

I thought the same thing and was going to make the comment on that. But it looks like I'm not the only one that geeks everything out.

[@oldschool1993]

The biggest job will be to try and find another project that needs this thing.

[@ROTTK9]

@@K-Effect it is not that difficult to get an eyepiece that is a 90 and has video microscopes have them. prob find one on ebay cheap

[@WobblycogsUk]

Nice little project. The only thing I'd have done differently would be to take a very light skim over that piece of brass and then polish it to a mirror finish. I don't know what it is about brass it just cries out to be polished!

[@carloscordero4204]

Just like keith always improving his machines GOOD WORK NO MATER WHAT IT IS!!!!

[@onestepatatime2346]

Good thinking sir. Cant wait to see you get a AA on the surface plate.

[@willyhooyberghs8068]

You can consider painting the adapters on the inside matt black. This will benefit the image, standard practice for camera and microscope parts. +1 on the camera adapter tip!

[@garthbutton699]

I like you're approach,simple and effective.

[@lsittmann]

When you need something and that thing is being essential to you, you are forced to find the way of achieve it... Old School: "Necessity is the mother of invention...!!!" ->->-> I like your workarounds Sir Kieth...!!!

[@williamfromky8109]

Hi Keith, I'm a new subscriber to your channel, great videos. I spent a lot of time working at a P&G plant in Albany. i made several trips to the Agrirama in the late 90's. Look's like it has really grown since then. I'm planning on coming down again sometime this summer.

[@GeorgeWMays]

That was fun. Thanks for the project.

[@brownh2orat211]

I used to rebuild those auto collimators back in the early 1980's while in the US Navy, I was a Opticalman, repaired almost anything with optical lens in it, from submarine periscopes to sextants to gun sights. Sadly that Navy rate went away in the 1990's,

[@WayneT51]

G'day Keith, you're not old young fella.😁 In regards to the other, when I was watching you work on the plane at one stage you were squeezing between the plane bed and the gantry I said to myself "not enough space, too much Keith" Y'all keep safe and well. 👍🇦🇺

[@bsdubois]

Keith, have you considered an adjustable height seat with casters? I do my best work on my big fat a$$. The dangers of being a retired Locomotive Engineer. Just a thought. You could use the original straight through arrangement if the seat was low enough and you might no need to bend over as much as the right angle adapter may require. Now I need to watch all the other videos on the autocollimator.

[@MoraFermi]

Last time I was this early, Bessel still haven't come up with his points yet. Very nice upgrade to the autocollimator, in all honesty, I'm not sure how people would use one without it! P.S. that aluminium collar was likely 20mm nominal, with the "knurling" making it a touch smaller.

[@stumccabe]

I think knurling usually mades the diameter a little larger.

[@harpomarx7777]

I would have expected a nice polishing of the outer surface since this is a precision tool, Keith. Nice job.

[@0verboosted]

Hey Keith I like your ZTFab bracket for your arbors - Abom has one just like it 🤣

[@AlphaNerd132]

I had a thought for you all. My dad was a machinist from the early 60s through the mid 90s. One thing his shop had and used a lot of where Blanchard vertical surface grinders. Huge machines. Some of them on the shop floor where big enough to fit a modern smart car on it. How come you don't see much documentation about these things around? I see a few pics here and there, mostly old manual diagrams. But hardly any video and few pictures. Was it something that only a select few companies had a use for?

[@catfishgray651]

GREAT JOB, LET GO TO WORK...GREAT VIDEO KEITH

[@saschaoswald480]

Really excited about the upcoming surface plate lapping! That should be very interesting. A 3ft x 6ft plate is the perfect size, hard to find. I really like the Davidson Optronics Autocollimators for their folded optical path, compact footprint and eyepiece position, more practical than the Hilger & Watts in my opinion.

[@johannglaser]

There are several suggestions to go with a small electronic camera and a monitor. While this is a better idea than mine, it still has some drawbacks like the time lag. My proposal would be to add a projection screen (e.g., 4x4in). The light from the autocollimator hits the semi-transparent white film from the back, and you look at it from the front. Then you wouldn't even need to bend your back but could see it from a few feet distance. Probably this would require a much stronger lamp, or you would have to dim your shop lights while working with it. At least it is still "old school", in contrast to the electronics solution (said by an electronics and semiconductor developer here :-) ).

[@googacct]

Nice project. Seems like it would not be too far of a leap to adapt a camera. There are lots of microscope camera c-mount adapters that you should should be able to use as well. That would make the tool even easier to use and your audience could see what you see.

[@ArbitusRM]

One thing that you didn't mention, or I missed it, is do you focus the image on the autocollimator first and then add the adapter or do you just have a focus on the adapter itself? If you have to adjust focus before you put the adapter on why not cut a slot on each side of the adapter that is about 1/5 the circumference on both sides to give you access to the focus adjustment on the autocollimator itself without having to remove the adapter?

[@cannon440]

Nice job, looks good. IMHO it needs to be painted black or highly polished.

[@larryfisher7056]

Now you need to make a nice little oak box to store the right angle eyepiece....

[@robnessmonster1531]

Keith, If you got a second angle eye piece you could make a periscope adapter and not have to bend or squat at all. If nothing else, it could be an interesting video. Great work nonetheless.

[@Chunter48]

Use one of them every day. Mostly to measure wedge of an optical lens.

[@ratmadness4858]

AA - A - B - counter top

[@141poolplayer]

Ha! I was thinking, AA - A - B - Headstone.

[@gofastwclass]

@@141poolplayer No, headstone is one notch below counter top. Haha.

[@tsbhb]

I agree with several comments, adapting a digital camera would provide you more relief then bending over and siting through the 90 degree adapter.

[@diggerdelaney]

Like the little adaptor. would it be ideal to have a thumbscrew to attach it as to save looking for an Allen wrench to tighten it in place no need for it to be large as it just holds the adaptor in place

[@elsdp-4560]

THANK YOU...for sharing.

[@R.E.HILL_]

Very nice..

[@capnthepeafarmer]

Don't forget that the grade doesn't just mean the flatness of the plate, it also means the deflection of the plate for a given load. that's why you see only very large granite plates with high grades, it's because the plate AND the base do not deflect under load.

[@CAPFlyer]

For everyone suggesting a camera - The only concern I would have is resolution. Unless it's a 4K camera and a native 4K display, reading the very fine internal markings would be extremely difficult. Even 1080i would be questionable with a high accuracy instrument like this.

[@rgmoore]

Camera resolution isn't a big concern. Even at 420p you can easily do adapted stellar observations with telescopes.

[@CAPFlyer]

@@rgmoore but aren't most AO observations mostly useful with post-processing? Using an autocollimator is a live measurement and the resolution is of the internally fixed markings, not some (near) infinite focal length object.

[@rgmoore]

@@CAPFlyer Since they sell autocollimators with cameras and camera attachments, one would conclude that as is the case with all other optical observation systems, cameras work just fine.

[@CAPFlyer]

@@rgmoore from my personal experience, I wouldn't. You are talking about target viewing, which absolutely is easily done with any camera. The problem is the internal markings within the instrument. Having those in focus and sharp is where the concern lies. Having tried to do rifle scope camera setups, even rangefinder camera setups, it's very difficult. I can often see through the scope just fine with the camera, but getting the internal markings to show is where you run into issues. This is why scope-mounted cameras haven't been a real big thing until recently, and even then, the ones that are out there are using high resolution CCDs with 5MP+ resolution at 1080p or above. The instruments that have camera attachments or are built with them were designed to use them. I'm also guessing those attachment versions are more than $200. If so, then you're not getting "just any camera" for it to work properly. That's my point.

[@rgmoore]

@@CAPFlyer You called out all of those that were suggesting adapting a camera. My point has been that this has been done. Depending on your budgetary concerns, not expensive. I don't think anyone has considered 5mp that big a deal in a long time. The problem you had is and is relevant, is one of focal length a fixed focal length camera with the correct range will easily pickup the crosshairs and the objective.

[@ba208]

I noticed that you are missing the 3 feet. I have several HW autocollimators, and one of them was also missing the feet, so I made a sketch. Will upload it here, if there is any way to do that. (EDIT: I could not find a way to upload the drawing, so will email it to you.)

[@daveb3910]

Check out Edmund optics. They're a scientific optics place and they have a budget line for schools and places with smaller budgets as well. You can find almost any fitting or glass that you need there, although its not always cheap.

[@WilliamTMusil]

Hiya Keith

[@johnhiggins9838]

Even a better thought, adapt a small cheap camera and monitor to the eye piece. No bending and you can adjust the quality of the view.

[@jeanlouisjeanlouis1602]

It works great, but now my muscles hurt. So we have to make an adapter. 🤣🤣🤣

[@DavidChadwell]

I don't know what's worse, squatting down, or bending over(head rush). I would probably make a rolly chair to move around and keep my head on the level of the eyepiece.

[@sandrammer]

Now for the next upgrade. You'll get a camera to mount so you'll be able to look at a monitor instead of bending over to look through a eyepiece.

[@art8399]

lmao i thought i was the only guy to call myself an old fat guy. great channel thank you from massachusetts stay safe.

[@CraigLYoung]

Kudos!

[@hitoortega1616]

Hello you can made cut on bottom side so can adjust the inside Lent

[@from-the-land-of-noah]

Hey Keith, I am curious as to why you didn't do the smaller bore and the larger bore while still i the initial setup so everything would be perfectly concentric? It seems to me that you added an unnecessary step by flipping the piece around to bore the smaller diameter. I could very well be wrong though.

[@xenonram]

It's plenty concentric. It'll only be out a few thou. Way more than accurate enough.

[@RedneckIrishman]

250 Squats! Muscle Burn! Old Fat Guy! I guess that's at least half of the subscribers here... Including myself 😂😂😂

[@outsidescrewball]

enjoyed

[@unclespicey42]

btw it is probably a 20mm fine metric thread. :)

[@jonarbuckle1560]

ever worked with hemacite? I think it's classy stuff. could work well for something like this... assuming you have a fresh blank. Dont want to think about making it from scratch

[@bobvines00]

Keith, or anyone, when the tap started squeaking in the brass tube, is that a sign that a lube of some sort ought to be used? Or is brass just "squeaky" and doesn't really need a lubricant in this situation? I ask because I want to start using more brass & bronze in my shop and more information is always useful.

[@C2DSolutions]

Squeeky taps could mean a multitude of issues. In my opinion... tapping fluid is always a good idea. I think in Keith's case it would have made the adapter messy. Not really desirable on an optical instrument.

[@le3045acp]

i know im off subject but i am looking at a invicta m4 shaper and just wondered if you know if they are decent machines

[@mrhangfire1]

I'm no optics expert, but you may want to verify that both eyepieces yield the same result somehow. You have precision instrument that is getting an eBay eyepiece set-screwed onto it. Again, no expert, but when you start reflecting light, you should be careful to make sure that it is being done with precision and accuracy. Especially if resolution is one-millionth!

[@johneverson354]

"An old fat guy" I feel your pain! (No pun intended)

[@pifpaf3329]

now your legs would not hurt, your back i on the line...

[@robnessmonster1531]

I was thinking the same thing. A short rolling chair would spare a lot of aggravation. But seats have no place in a productive environment.

[@bulletproofpepper2]

I see you moved the set screw back some, dose it lock eye piece so you can focus it by turning the adapter? Thanks for sharing.

[@bigdog8891]

Now you are going to throw your back out and strain your hamstrings!! HaHa!! Good work

[@SD_Alias]

Very interesting, I always thought that a collimator is used for calibrating camera lenses...

[@JWimpy]

They are. I use to service cameras back in the 35mm days and we had one in the shop.

[@dolvaran]

And telescope mirrors, I think.

[@mrhangfire1]

Used for aiming howitzers as well.

[@joopterwijn]

Keith, just wondering, do you have to paint the inside black to minimize reflection?

[@davescreations7793]

I thought i suggested that in the beginning and you said you don’t want to make it be Original

[@phooesnax]

Wonder if you lost any brightness? Guessing you did.

[@MikeBramm]

Nice work. I know dealing with optics can be tricky sometimes. Maybe the next modification will be a mount for your phone so you don't have to stoop over to take the readings.

[@K-Effect]

The 90° adapter, Is this your own idea or have you seen this done before? I also like the comment by Les Bender about using a camera and monitor.

[@dolvaran]

I'm pretty sure that the instrument used by the company who calibrated Keith's surface plate a few years back had a right-angled eyepiece.

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

I seem to recall that a camera right angle adapter was suggested many times after Keith first showed the instrument, way back.

[@horatiohornblower868]

Are you sure the optics inside the eye piece are in specs?

[@firearmsstudent]

Are you sure you don't want to do squats? They're a good workout.

[@oldschool1993]

HaHa- " I've talked about how it works before and I'm not going to go into that now" followed by a full description of how it works. So what about focusing? You could mill a slot in your brass collar at the location of the focus ring and use a pick to move it.

[@kraklakvakve]

We who watch Robin Renzetti's videos, must ask: Does the thickness of the plate allow for a better grade than A?

[@MF175mp]

Unless you work with really heavy workpieces, that isn't so much of a concern. Flatter is still better.

[@shanek6582]

Where can I get one of those huge surface plates that’s below an A grade that’s useless to real machinists?

[@KG-yn9qi]

Stoker,stoker,stoker, Ha Ha did I say Stoker? Hey know busy, but like to see a little more.

[@Bzzzz1977]

Just make smartphone adapter and use its camera

[@pauljs6112]

When you put the piece back in to bore the smaller hole (13:17) there was a very noticeable wobble cycling, what causes this ?

[@truracer20]

The outside diameter of the brass bar isn't perfectly round. therefore the hole that was drilled while it was chucked in a different position is no longer concentric to the check.

[@highpwr]

@@truracer20 Even if the brass stock was perfectly round taking it out of a self centering chuck and putting it back in again would likely result in some degree of run out in the part. The clamping forces of the chuck jaws aren't necessarily 100% repeatable due to machining tolerances and/or wear in different areas of the scroll plate and jaws.

[@truracer20]

@@highpwr Yes as you said there may be a noticeable wobble, but I was answering the question about the "very noticeable" wobble which in this case is caused by the out of round OD unless Keith's chuck is worn slap out, and I don't believe that is the case.

[@C2DSolutions]

Could have also been the drill "strayed" off of centre when drilling from the other side... though that usually only happens when drilling with long series drills or small diameters.

[@ElmerJFudd-oi9kj]

And hey presto Bob is your mothers uncle!

[@joeclarke9782]

Yeah - "Everything I do, I do in inches."

[@tinkerersgarage2944]

Polish that brass!

[@dreadnaught2707]

I cringed when you hand tapped those two holes with the tap wrench off true and wobbling about

[@johng8473]

Totally good enough. PICK PICK PICK.

[@krisgustafson2623]

I feel your pain... would be nice to be less than 40 years old again. More wisdom = less knee bends left the old bones.

[@littleworkshopofhorrors2395]

Keith said old and fat, your 40 doesn't even count as middle aged.😉

[@mechanic2874]

could you put a camera on instead so you just look a monitor instead and not have to bend over at all plus you can move around and still watch it

[@nivekastoreth]

I had always thought the primary difference between A and AA was deformation under load, not just flatness

[@ElmerJFudd-oi9kj]

I meant your mothers brother , damn!

[@reelmoody2376]

The old part can’t be fixed, but the second part to your comment just takes pushing away from the table.

[@28gwdavies]

I know what you mean about making life easier, I'm a 65-year-old English fat bugger with a back problem so bending has to be cut to a minimum for me otherwise a 20-minute job can take 2 days to get over. Due to the good weather here I'm now wearing shorts, my loving wife said I look just like you, Except... I'm fatter, have less hair and less money, and the only thing I have more of than you is stupidity... she didn't even smile when she said it. Love the videos but I'm a bit behind at the moment hence the late comment on this.