PHEV: The truth about buying a plug-in hybrid EV. Is it worth the $$$? | Auto Expert John Cadogan

[@toadster20000]

Dude 6 mins of adverts not cool

[@Dreamer10888]

Thanks for the warning, skipped ahead

[@topher.m]

Daddy has to eat. Dude.

[@salemas5]

install sponsor block and ad block and you're golden.

[@danielangelov91]

Deserved my thumbs down.

[@shitedriver8490]

whinge... whinge...whinge

[@davesutherland1864]

I have had a RAV4 Prime for a year and it meets all expectations. I charge it every night to the level required for next day. I get the advertised EV range (or frequently more). On long trips the highway fuel economy exceeds the rating not only that of the prime, but also the rating of the standard hybrid (dispute the heavy battery). On a trip with 10 hours of driving we fill up once. My wife and I take turns driving and have about 30 minutes of non driving time. I have no idea what the city fuel economy is as I virtually never travel in that mode. While I agree it takes a good chunk of the vehicles life (which will be 12 years if it is as reliable as my previous vehicles) to pay back the price premium, the rebates I got reduce that to a few years. Bottom line, if you charge it daily and your daily driving is typically in the EV range, or only slightly over that range, it does everything the proponents say it does. In addition, if you are comparing a PHEV to an EV, don’t forget the battery in a EV with good range can make 3 or 4 PHEVs. If used the way I use mine, the 3 or 4 PHEV will get a lot more emission reductions than a single EV. However, a similar argument to the one above can be made that the current EV production use more battery resources than required to make all cars standard hybrids, and that could have a 25% to 35% emissions reduction, far more that achieved by the current fleet of EVs or PHEV.

[@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403]

The fact that you can make 3 or 4 PHEVs with the battery of one EV is a point I never considered. To me, at the end of the day, you just need to go in with your eyes open. There are pros and cons to any purchase you buy. One huge con not mentioned in this video is if you keep the car for a long period of time, like I usually do, you'll eventually have major repairs and one of those will most certainly be the battery. You need to a. find out what that repair cost will roughly be and b. make sure your combined savings from gas mileage and government rebates makes it make sense.

[@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403]

Btw, I'm assuming you got rid of your Rav4. Why did you?

[@davesutherland1864]

@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 The general consensus on the new EV batteries p is they will outlive the car in most cases. There will be some degradation with time, but unless you are doing a lot of fast charging, the battery will last longer than the car.

[@davesutherland1864]

@@dontbanmebrodontbanme5403 I still have the R4P. I have had it just over a year now and have no intention to get rid of it.

[@tharais]

Completely dependent on your cost of fuel, cost of electricity, miles/kWh and MPG. WIthout factoring those, you're just guestimatting and assuming. Recently drove a Mazda PHEV. The idea of going pure EV for our mostly short trips around town but being able to occasionally long road trip without a recharge was attractive. But then, I ran the numbers. In our situation with this vehicle, we'd be better of going ICE alone. For all trips. And, we'd save about $10 grand on the purchase as well.

[@Roman-re1yg]

I drive a 2017 Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid. In the last 22,000 km I have used an average of 1.4 L gas /100km. I live in a cold Canadian climate and the onboard gas generator comes in very handy at -30 Celsius. Not all phev are equal but the Volt is like having a pure EV for all daily commutes and a very efficient long range vehicle with no range anxiety. Brilliant drive train.

[@aloodena5196]

I wish they still made the Volt... I think the power train was too advanced for the time, it was too expensive for them to make money on it.

[@peterryan7340]

Would you consider a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV?

[@Roman-re1yg]

@@peterryan7340 funny you say that, We actually purchased a 2022 Mitsubishi outlander just over a year ago. When we purchased it the PHEV was not available yet. I have been following some of the reviews and apparently they are very good hybrids. We love our outlander, and I'm sure we would love it even more if it was a PHEV!

[@suad01]

I always wanted one of these but they are pretty rare in Australia

[@lenimbery7038]

Best car I ever owned!...Too bad GM dropped the ball on the best PHEV to date that anyone has made

[@SkaBob]

Yes our PHEV has been great and cut our gas usage by 3/4. My subaru got 300 miles on a tank (11-12 gallons), our Niro PHEV gets 900-1000 miles on a tank (8-9 gallons). Didn't notice how much time I was wasting at gas station filling up 2 times a week, now it more like once every 12 days.

[@andrezunido]

Prices on used PHEV vehicles are now quite reasonable. Bought a used Kia Niro PHEV 2022 model service vehicle for 31k EUR. That is far from the cheapest option, but having solar at home I felt like it just made sense to get a used PHEV. The Niro also ticks a lot of boxes for my use case, looking like a normal car and having a very nice cabin and overall build quality. I live in Portugal, and here we also have a large solar and wind infrastructure, which gives us many days of 100% renewable during the year (lets not talk of roi for that infrastructure). That said, it has no spare wheel because that space is used by the battery, thankfully we have nothing comparable to the Australian outback here. Love your content John, greetings from the Iberian peninsula!

[@angfam7729]

I just bought the new Outlander PHEV 1 month ago in NZ. I can do all my weekday driving in EV mode, and can easily do motorway speeds without the need for the petrol engine engaging. After 1700km, I’ve averaged 1.6L/100km. I plan to keep this car for 10 years, which is the length of the warranty if i keep getting it serviced by Mitsubishi. So I’d hope I’ve recovered the cost difference this has over the ICE model by then. But it’s not just the petrol savings that should be considered when looking at the price difference between PHEV & ICE models. With the electric motors, the PHEV surges out of corners, giving a much greater driving pleasure than the ICE model.

[@JasonISF]

Nice, I don't blame you - the petrol prices in NZ are even scarier than here in Australia!

[@angfam7729]

@@joeblack1052 , that's good advice - thanks for the tip. I'll drive around in Power mode (which keeps the engine running) for the next month to help bed the engine in, and then use that mode one day per week to keep it happy.

[@mondotv4216]

@@joeblack1052 That’s incorrect. Take it from somebody’s who’s owned the original since 2014 and driven at least 80% of the time in EV only mode (probably closer to 90% for the first 5.5 years - often to the extent of having to use the fuel in the tank or risk it getting contaminated (Mitsu forces you to do this after a preset time without a fill). Provided you keep the scheduled maintenance on the petrol engine, the net result of using it less is …. less wear and tear on the engine. I have had zero problems that could be attributed to running the petrol engine sporadically. The reality is oil degrades over time so keeping to that schedule is the most important thing for the engine.

[@ghostofdre]

@@joeblack1052 are you saying the petrol engine will degrade from non use? It will wear out from not being used? I would just keep up on the oil changes and kick out over every now and then, not using a well lubricated engine for weeks at a time shouldn't present any problems.

[@Varukimm]

Let me tell you some more benefits since I'm a PHEV owner since the first model. * I get free parking in my city because of encouragement to decrees the carbon footprint through electrifying cars. * The electricity is free at my office and in the beginning every supermarket had free charging. * Almost always have a free parking spot even if I charge or not, I just plug the cable and let it there :) * The car is big, I can go with full family on vacations and I can go each morning to the gym. It is optimized both for short or long drives. The more short drives with charging in between the better. Also is 4x4 and has high ground clearance making it easy to climb ledges and extend parking :) * The car is fun to drive.

[@sjion]

John, you are one of the only KZbinrs I can think of that thanks people for watching at the end of your videos & it comes across as very genuine & old fashioned in a good way. Respect 👍 Oh, the video was pretty good too 😉

[@hervehaddad341]

You are all talking about money and cost, what if we talk about missing petrol because of war and missing electricity.now in France sone gaz station are out of petrol but we also are soon in a limited use for energy, so having 2 differents mode of energy let us more free in term of restriction , plus a ev could be charge with a portable charger charged with solar energy which make it possible at least not to be atuck anywhere

[@davidgillham6847]

if your driving is mixed, then conventional hybrids are still the best bet in the modern world. PHEVs and EVs no longer make financial sense with the sky rocketing cost of electricity here in Europe. Very soon EVs and PHEVs will be just as expensive to run, if not more than a conventional ICE hybrid. Unless of course you already have loads of solar panels installed on your home, but that's a different story...

[@rkaycom]

The biggest issue with this video is you are completely ignoring the fact that with the $17k price difference (for the Outlander) you are also getting a much better car, e.g. 50kw more power & 200nm more torque, a 1500w pure sine wave inverter, upgrade suspension (which is better ride then the petrol version). If they had a petrol version with that much extra power and an inverter it would still cost you 10k more at least and you wouldn't have the 20kw battery to run the inverter off (not all the 20kw is usable, I think it's limited to 10kw but that's still ALOT). So the value proposition isn't as bad if you take that into consideration. I think its unfair to say "oh save the $17k on the petrol version and buy fuel with the money saved" because you end up with an under powered turd that isn't as useful when you are camping.

[@jasonlewis2990]

I try having this conversation with people and it just falls on deaf ears. They 100% believe it'll save them money and the car is better for the environment regardless of any facts or figures I show them

[@smncosmin]

My case ... Renault captur phev rsline . Between this and the tce160 rsline is only 4000 euro ( in our country the government is giving some help when you buy a new car) ... The car is charged daily . 6400 km in total until now and from all of these there where 3 trips each of around 500km when the consumption was 6.3l/100km+8.5kwh/100km . The rest of around 5000km , are in the city and I can say fosr sure than 90+% was in EV mode . With an average of 14-15kwh/100km ,in EV mode the cost is 2euros /100km . What do you think ? ... Until this car will die it will still be used in the same way until now ...

[@waynehewett4017]

They blindly believe and swallow all the lies and propaganda the government and car makers dish out Sure EVs and Hybrids have their place in the cities for short runs But the people that can afford 80 grand for a EV don't really give a shit about the price of fuel do they ?

[@geirvinje2556]

The best is to go full BEV. I have a Tesla model 3. If someone told me that I needed oil change, checking the liquid, so it won't frese in the winter, or that I needed to fill up my tank before I drive to work. I will never buy that car. I don't like wasting my time going to gas stations, and on my tripps down in Europe. The charging are faster than eating a dinner with my wife.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@geirvinje2556 it good you have been able to use your tesla ot it's fullest The recharging station infrastructure in Europe is very good But here in Australia we are still in the stone age when it come to power infrastructure Even when you are able to find a recharging station in the cities good luck finding one that's not vandalised, damaged or simply doesn't work In rural areasits even worse as recharging stations areas rare as hens teeth Like going from Perth in Western Australia to Adelaide in south Australia is over 3000 kms with nothing much but a few towns and truck stops between Just try doing that in an EV? yes John showed them doing that and also showed the EV on the back of a tow truck for the last quarter of the way when the EV shit itself Here in Australia we have along way to go before EVs are even close to being economical and a decent price

[@neilgorin1037]

@@geirvinje2556 sorry to disappoint you but a Tesla has a cooling system that has to be checked and topped up from time to time. It also has oil in the axles...

[@KayakKiwi_Peter]

A very fair and accurate review. I've just bought an Outlander PHEV for exactly the reasons you describe. The 20kw battery was the clincher. I reckon I can get about 80% savings

[@davelindhorst5897]

I have a 2019 Outlander PHEV. Love it, but it needs to make place for a 2023 Outlander PHEV I am picking up tomorrow. The last tank of fuel, on the 2019 I went 1562 kms and used 24 liters. That is about 1.5 liters per 100 kms. The new one is much nicer 🤗

[@peterball8241]

Excellent video. I have run an Outlander PHEV for 6 years and my last fill up worked out at 260mpg. Would have been better but it makes you use some fuel to keep the system healthy, minimum 15ltrs every 3 months.

[@davidwright1752]

Hi Peter do you have the complete running cost of the vehicle. That is what the video is about. I am sure if I spend $200000 on a car and info structure I can get 1000 mpg. Just bit expensive for my 6000 km per year. I would like a Kia Sorrento PHEV but for the life of me just cannot get the sums to add up. Close to $ 30k difference. Or are running it as a taxi and about 160,000 km per year.

[@peterball8241]

@@davidwright1752 The Outlander isn't a cheap car but I enjoy the PHEV and it is relatively economical to run if you do lots of short trips and plug in every night on a cheap tariff. It's costing me £1 to fill the battery giving around 20 miles of range and my last petrol fill up took 18 litres for 1,200 miles (most of which was obviously done on electric).

[@chrissscottt]

As I suspected, most people who drive a PHEV know what they're doing. The exception would likely be the inept driver of a company car.

[@unitedwestand56]

How is it holding on after 6 years? I believe yours is a 2.0L gasoline engine with two 60kW motors, just like mine. I bought my PHEV in the US in 2020 as a new 2019 year model and so far got 27,000 miles on it without encountering a single mechanical issue. I had my hesitations when I bought the car, but a $6,500 factory rebate from Mitsubishi in addition to a $1,500 state tax rebate and a $5,800 Federal tax rebate made it a deal I could not let pass by. My vehicle's mpgs so far around 70.

[@peterball8241]

@@unitedwestand56 7 years in it's holding up well, although only 33,000 miles. only issues so far air con compressor fixed with majority paid for as a good will gesture by Mitsubishi, and warped front discs after an emergency stop. I also have a BEV MG5 so low milage on both. Hard to fault the PHEV.

[@Mububban23]

With current FBT incentives for EV/PHEV in Australia, I got quotes for a base model Mitsubishi Outlander ES in petrol and PHEV, and the 5 year total cost of leasing difference was $200 more expensive for the petrol. Not paying $4k per year of FBT negated the purchase price difference between them. And I'd do nearly 100% of my driving as pure EV, but would have a full sized family SUV with big boot that won't need to stop to charge for the annual road trip holiday. Overnight charging with a normal plug also means no $3000 wall box to install, so another saving. Now if only the wait times weren't 2 years long...... p.s. the pure electric ~$40k MG ZS EV worked out to be $30k cheaper over 5 years but is a size smaller than I'm looking for. Never mind any other considerations with buying MG...

[@eitai2001]

I was in exactly the same boat here. Also test drove the MG HS EV ... but the infotainment system (which controls your Aircon) was so painfully slow I decided against it. The speedometer took so long to switch on, I was already driving before it came on. Just hope I can get an Outlander in the next 12 months ... order is in. Had a Kia Sorento PHEV coming next month ... but couldn't justify the 17k price difference over the Exceed PHEV.

[@Bangyourbirdnumb]

Nicely worded, I see this was never mentioned anywhere in the video.

[@bnewland1958]

Thank you for this review. I own a Prius Prime, at the time of purchase 2017 it was only $10,000 over a Prius Hybrid, so pay back was faster. I have put 35,000 miles on it with a total gas usage of 60 gallons. I plug in any time I pull in the garage. I have 8 kw of solar on my roof so free power. I love the car. The solar added $26,000 to the deal. No free ride.

[@user-js6wh7jb6p]

I got 7kw solar for $15k

[@alexdhutanu]

Great cars, if you don't really need an SUV. I have 5500km on my Prius Prime, 1l/100km average fuel consumption. 86% driving in EV. I do mostly suburban driving.

[@rafguend4239]

Your vids reviews are good but please cut down on the irrelevant AD segment and keep it short you will do much better

[@MrGazza1404]

Well explained thanks John. A single data point:. I had a Mercedes c350e PHEV. The 6kwh battery would get me no more than 17klm when I was being when being ultra nerdy and using no petrol,. Much less than the 30klm quoted in the sales blurb. In practice I would fill up the smaller than usual 50 l fuel tank every 2.5 weeks instead of weekly. The killer was that this is a fully EV, and a fully petrol drive system, well integrated. Odd events would occur needing a reboot. In the end four faults could not be diagnosed or fixed despite video evidence. It was a Mercedes, with a complicated system no one could fix and it was about to go out of warranty. What could possibly go wrong?

[@waynehewett4017]

Mercedes Benz are very nice vehicles if you can afford one over a 100 grand or more But Mercedes Benz is Satan in a suit with custom care ,warranties and throwing its customers under the bus when it comes to consumer law I assume you had the same thing when your EV developed a problem

[@tjroelsma]

Those were essentially what is called a "me too" product: if BMW, Audi and others sell a PHEV, then Mercedes also has to sell one. So they hastily slapped something together. This is the reason why you should never be a first adapter, because the initial serie almost always has problems the designers hadn't foreseen. Wait at least until the updated serie comes out, as many of those early problems have been solved by then.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@tjroelsma yes they are just slapped together together on the EV gravy train Like any new technologies what are you going to do if your EV shits it's self out in the middle of nowhere? You'd better be sitting down when you get the towing and repair bill for your 80 grand shit box And you thought you would save money buying a EV?

[@tjroelsma]

@@waynehewett4017 That's why it's better to wait at least one and preferably two or more versions before buying an EV. On most second, third and later generation EV's the problems have been pretty much ironed out and they are fairly reliable. You can't take them out to DPC (Dingo Piss Creek) though, because you can't charge them there, but with a PHEV that isn't really a problem. The only thing you might consider is: "do I want to take a reasonably complicated vehicle out to DPC or do I adhere to the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle for as long as I still can?" But that's a personal consideration.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@tjroelsma yep sound advise my friend Me I'm sticking to my petrol vehicle til it dies At least if it shots itself and runs out of petrol I have a good chance f ether fixing the problem or getting to the nearest help With a EV or hybrid you can't fix it and nor can anyone else apart from a EV mechanic and make sure your sitting down when they give you the repair bill.

[@robertmanship]

One other factor that wasn't considered for someone that day runs 70% of the time in EV mode and that is less maintenance like oil changes and such

[@mondotv4216]

I never thought I would save money buying a PHEV (Mitsubishi Outlander)- it cost about $9K more to buy in 2014. Doing the sums I might have saved about $6 - $7k in fuel alone (105,000K) because even though you’re carrying around a battery it still does better even in hybrid mode than the petrol variant. So even when you’re not running pure EV your saving approx 10% in fuel costs. But I was a big EV only user - above average as I’d commute to work, charge there and commute home. I think my record was 3000kms before the car refused to go into EV mode to stop the fuel getting contaminated. But I regularly got past 2,500km. So I had to drive another 200kms or so and fill up. It only takes about 37- 39 litres unless I really push it (think it’s a 45 litre tank). The point is, that won’t be a lot of people’s experience. However, I’ve definitely saved money on maintenance. Original brakes probably have another 100,000K. Regular services and one cruise control switch replaced under warranty. One set of tyres replaced around 78,000K. Original 12V battery still working - doesn’t get subjected to much stress. Not sure how much longer. That must be cheaper than the petrol variant. I imagine the ICE version would have been through two sets of pads, maybe three and probably the disc rotors are due for replacement. At least one possibly two 12V batteries. It’s a pretty reliable car so lets not add anything else. I’m going to say I maybe saved an additional $1500 in maintenance. So did I save money? Maybe I’ll break even when I sell as they’re worth a few quid more used. Do I regret the purchase. Absolutely not - quiet , smooth, fit for purpose. Should you buy one over a full electric equivalent. Only if money is the issue. You’ll pay more up front for an EV with similar specs and towing capability and you won’t get the power of a full EV. If you’re going to do a lot of long distance towing (fairly limited on the Outlander) maybe stick with the PHEV or petrol.

[@adamcoe]

That's a super good point about brakes, I never even though of that. One more reason to buy the PHEV I've been eyeing

[@gbiradar75]

Great points. Thanks for sharing, never considered the wear n tear of mechanical parts

[@grantlouw3182]

Great fact check as usual, thank you JC. Another factor in the poor PHEV performance in Europe is that most are company cars with associated company fuel card so no rational person would plug them in at home where they pay for the electricity.

[@whysah_WD]

In most cases electricity cost for charging is monthly reimbursed based on what the company reads from the on-board computer. It might be taxed differently though 🙂

[@yggdrasil9039]

68,000km of driving some people do in a year. The other thing you have to look at is the fact that fuel supply is inherently unpredictable. If fuel prices skyrocket again, or worse, fuel is cut off completely by some conflict, at least with a PHEV you've still got a working vehicle that can still drive about 80km. Anyone with an ICE only vehicle in that situation basically has a tonne or so metal sculpture parked in their driveway.

[@tomnewham1269]

John mentioned fuel security as a reason for owning a PHEV.

[@gjjohnso]

Remember, fuel prices in Australia will be going up in September when the fuel excise is returned to normal. I think it's around A$0.23 per liter extra.

[@crazylala2003]

Your last point regarding national energy security is the main reason I bought my Outlander PHEV. My second reason is the option to use gas or electric provides resiliency against spike in gas prices or blackout from the grid due to occasional heat wave here in Southern California. I average 1500 miles between fill ups (meaning I can run on EV mode a lot) so a PHEV definitely works for my use case.

[@heymike7037]

Can't argue with the points made in this video. I owned a PHEV for five years and I fall into the 'mostly urban use' category. Fully 2/3rds of all driving we ever did in the vehicle (Pacifica PHEV) was in EV mode so we saved around $2,000 in fuel per year compared to our previous vehicle (VW TDLie Golf Wagen) - when fuel was around $1.20/L. As a total-cost proposition I'm sure the math didn't work out as far as the premium paid for the vehicle given we only kept it for five year but I would say as an operating cost proposition it did and we did get quite a bit for it as trade in value. Our car payment was no greater than the payment for the fossil car it replaced and we did notice the savings from not having to buy fuel every week so operating costs were definitely lower. I'd also point out that some PHEVs let you drive normally in EV mode, the Pacifica was certainly one of those where we could get right up to highway speeds using normal acceleration and the gas engine never needed to kick in. So not all PHEVs need to be driven gently to stay in EV mode. We bought it mostly for environmental and lower operating cost reasons, to minimize our use of fossil fuels as much as possible - and in that goal I think we succeeded. We've since traded it in for a full EV and haven't looked back. We got tired of our quiet smooth drives being occasionally interrupted by the noisy vibrations of a piston engine and we were also done with buying oil and gas for it on a fairly regular basis. We much prefer our Ioniq 5 which cost us about the same as the van but is oh so much better to drive. Here in Canada the public EV charging infrastructure is fine so doing long trips between cities in a full EV doesn't require "military levels of planning". We just get in and go, there are plenty of chargers along the way.

[@preptplus]

Thank you to all the commentators. Thank you John for your vlog which allows people to make comments. I find reading the comments useful and interesting. I love my PHEV Outlander which we bought pre-owned. Most of our driving is commuting and short trips but with occasional long trips (300kms) so having the ICE is a great back up.

[@sticustom]

We all remember where to hit the glass after your comprehensive report on exploding sunroofs. Hehehehe

[@YYY-nj9wq]

All PHEV do not create equal. Another satisfied Toyota RAV4 Prime user. Just buy a RAV4 Prime at near MSRP if one can buy one. One will be good for next 5-10 years without needing an EV. No need for regular gas cars at all.

[@Micko350]

I have a 2015 Outlander PHEV, it has only 87,000k's on it & the current range is only 21kms on Battery & I charge religiously. This is mostly OK for the driving I do but it's overall fuel consumption is around 8.5L/100 from drives up & down the Coast. It's very easy for me to drive on battery only as I've hypermiled Hybrid Camry's for many years but, if you put you foot into it, the engine will run. I'm currently trying to find a replacement battery on the cheap but will probably end up just selling it & buying another Hybrid Camry(or a Hybrid Rav4 instead) as we lost 2 of them this year(one from a hit & run & the other in the floods). I also have a 2.2L Turbo Diesel Outlander Exceed & it's a guzzler, not to mention the fact it sounds like a Tractor! The Hybrid Camry's fuel economy is fantastic, I regularly got in the 4's, (overall consumption in the car the Missus now drives was 5.6L/100kms when I was the Captain) but currently 6.1L/100. Overall, very, very disappointed in, not only the finish of the Outlanders, but Mitsubishi in general!

[@gwats19577]

Nice video John....I'll be keeping my 10-year old Camry.....😃😃😃😃😃😃

[@dennishardy4402]

Have owned a Mitsi eclipse cross phev for one month and 773klm. Always charge for free every time we come home off our solar/wind power system. Just put in 5.9litres of petrol to fill it up. It depends on your personal circumsrances as to whether the finances add up.

[@alfontana6242]

We have a 2022 RAV 4 Prime model SE plug in hybrid (all wheel drive) now with over 8,000 miles. We have been getting now with summer and early fall between 48-52 miles on electric with a full charge. When the battery is depleted and operating in pure hybrid mode, just like a regular RAV 4 Hybrid, we have been obtaining over 45+ MPG (US gallons) on regular 87 octane (10% ethanol) gasoline. Also there was a financial benefit when we purchased in March 2022. We will obtain a $7,500 U.S. Federal Tax Credit. In addition, in which we already received, an Oregon State EV rebate check for $2,500.00. This bought the price we paid, MSRP, down to that of a regular RAV 4 Hybrid.

[@charlesholder8009]

Totally agree. I opted for the 7-seater version here in the UK, saved a lot of money and the extra seats have been useful. (Calling the car, a 7-seater is stretching the trades description act to breaking point). I avoided buying a diesel when they were all the rage on the same calculation as I only drive about 7,000 miles a year. I am annoyed and upset to find Mitsubishi has pulled out of the UK and wondered if you could get me a new Outlander Cheap, please.

[@kening95]

When the fuel price doubles and you're having to wait in line for hours for gas you're not going to care about what you paid for plug-in car.

[@PamenterDoug]

My 2021 Niro PHEV is awesome! Truly the best of both worlds. No it is not a race car but the dual clutch transmission with sport mode is efficient and fun to drive. It has driver’s seat memory is power adjustable. Plus the front seats are heated and ventilated and full leather seats all around. The car is easy to get in and out of both front and rear seats, and easy to park and drive around the city, very solid on the highway, with lots of space in the back, plus roof racks and cross bars. I like the regular sunroof (not pano), and the understated styling helps this very cool car blend in. I added on a block heater for winter and rain guards for summer. The regular tinted windows are perfect. The sixteen inch wheels give a better ride and fuel economy than the larger wheels. The intelligent cruise control is my favourite feature. The dual zone AC is great and I like having buttons to push. The dual digital instrument panels give a ton of programmable information and again… blend in. Not like other cars that have an iPad stuck on the dash… I could go on, but you get the picture.

[@shawnsereal]

Trick is to buy your phev used and not new. I paid $24,000 for a 2018 Ioniq phev. I plug it in every day and always start the day with a full charge. I drive 31.9 miles to work in hybrid mode everyday, and going home I use all 29 miles of ev. In actuality, I only get 26 out of that 29 miles because of hills and 70mph freeway speeds. But it's enough to almost get me home. Gas savings is $240.00 per month compared to the car that was replaced with the phev. So, I'm saving $2880 in gas every year. So my break even point is 8.333 years before the gas savings has paid for the car. But, then again that doesn't include the cost of charging everday at $2.00 per charge. So, your correct that most people will never break even on a phev. WoW! Most people don't keep their cars long enough to brag about the savings. It's all Bull about how much your saving. But I do enjoy the car as a daily commuter. Thanks for the informative video.

[@kevinmccarthy2793]

I work from home, so I drive maybe 30 miles in a week. Had my S60 PHEV for almost 3 years now. Lifetime average is 86.3 mpg. I put gas in it every 6 months or so, whether it needs it or not. Bonus, in power mode, it's 400 horses and a 0-60 under 6 seconds.

[@bradjoyce525]

One thing that you haven't noted is the cost savings with no FBT on novated lease with PHEV and electric vehicles.

[@AnthonyJohns-w4q]

The only reason I purchased an Outlander PHEV on Novated lease. Not FBT or GST.

[@drewiliffe4855]

When Lismore and many surrounding towns were flooded in February petrol was scarce as tankers could not get through. Long queues resulted in a few cars having full tanks and many almost empty. Some people were without power and for many people in Lismore they were given 1 powerpoint to use for months until things returned to more normal. This opened my eyes to not putting all of your eggs in one basket. Own an EV but no power (for some time until the water receded and wiring was made safe)? Own a petrol car but no fuel until the tankers get through and you are lucky /time it in finding a servo with fuel? Or get a PHEV and be able to get petrol or electricity somewhere nearby. On another note, Ballina Shire Council recently voted to NOT install an EV charger so avoid Ballina if you are driving your EV and spend money elsewhere.

[@keithwells9185]

What interests me about these types of cars is that very thing you mention. They can keep the fridge working in a blackout. But nowhere have I found out if the ICE engine when running actually recharges the Batt Pack whilst driving the car? I'm hoping you can clarify when you see this reply.

[@drewiliffe4855]

@@keithwells9185 only some EV have the ability to run a fridge etc, not all. 'Vehicle to load' is the name. Not sure if a Hybrid is able to. These vehicles can recharge their battery when they apply their brakes (regenerative braking) so around town it works well, but at highway speeds on a longer drive it the benefits are reduced.

[@keithwells9185]

@@drewiliffe4855 Thankyou for the quick reply.

[@adamcoe]

Very good review. In Canada it actually makes a lot more sense as the price difference between the ICE only and PHEV models is much closer, and the average person drives a fair bit more. Most leases for example are based on 16K-20K a year, meaning that even if you had to make back that same 17 grand, for a lot of people that's less than 4 years (and as I say, it's actually much less than $17K although I'm not sure how the exchange compares). There is also currently (summer 2023) a 5 thousand dollar credit from the federal gov't (with some provinces adding additional credits) to buy a hybrid or PHEV so that definitely gets you into the savings that much faster. Really digging the Outlander and I'm thinking about pulling the trigger this year if I can find a buyer for my F150.

[@paulsven7923]

There are plenty of videos where it shows how loading some electric cars with 4 people and luggage halves the range and towing a caravan halves the range again

[@stuartthomas4836]

I’m from the uk and I’ve had petrol cars and ev cars, and now own a bmw phev. And yes I agree I will never recoup the extra money I’ve spent on the car. But here’s something your not being told. With an ev the public charging is a nightmare and can be very stressful. Now with my phev kept fully charged at home, driven sensibly I get lots of very quiet relaxing driving and I’ve not put fuel in for months. And I don’t get range stress. So to me it’s a price worth paying.

[@Transit_Biker]

The plug-in hybrid that my girlfriend recently bought is used so she’s already saving money there and the battery is at around 99% remaining capacity from new. It’s on the smaller side of electric battery capacities but we can easily drive at highway speeds in EV mode. It also has a battery save mode which cuts off the EV top speed to about 40 mph or around 64 kmph. Plugging into charge only takes about 5 hours with a level 1 charger. You can also schedule it to charge so it finishes topping off right when she needs to leave in the morning. I do hope more folks adopt plug-in cars, be it hybrid or full EV. They’re great - if you plug them in!

[@davidt1601]

It’s good to get a reality check. This is a great review and really put things into prospective. Still getting a PHEV.

[@gbiradar75]

Good review but are we missing out on the FBT exempt benefits by the govt. That gets you a good amount back in payg saving over a period of time. Plus if one has access to charging it helps.

[@stylecrate]

Would you have a different view now with the PHEVs qualifying for FBT exemption? Looking at the PHEV Sorento but with the high price and also high servicing costs with short 10k intervals...

[@MrBuyerman]

I was in the camp of 'save fuel' until I realized that in order to get to work I had to go over a mountain range...and there's no way a PHEV is doing that on electron juice alone, after that I put my sensible head back on, saved myself $50k and bought myself a cheap, but reliable, small car for commuting. This should be a PSA. Nice work John.

[@MikeSmith-lx9jg]

U go UP you have to come down............... meaning while your coming down regen breaking would recharge your battery in a PHEV. So your using gas going up YES but you get all EV coming down PLUS the regen miles added to your battery.

[@MikeSmith-lx9jg]

IF you want a cheap small car say 10k or 15k then GREAT you get what you pay for. BUt your not getting 80 mpg like i am with my Kia Sorento PHEV.

[@MrBuyerman]

@@MikeSmith-lx9jg Unfortunately it's not a 1:1 ratio. I'm using petrol on the way up now and coasting all the way down, and that's the same as ev or ice. My experiments with phev hire cars, (so I can do my due dilligence), was I was getting about the same mpg as I was with my smallish pure ICE vehicle, and as that is the majority of my miles I do I wouldn't save anything in fuel costs. Adding in the financing costs means I lose out significant cash each month. I'm not getting 80mpg but I do get 50+ so I'm happy and the car isn't a financial millstone around my neck. Car buying is a personal decision and if you're happy with yours and it works for you then great but let's not pretend it's the same scenario for everyone. It's good that information like this is getting out and we can make informed decisions on vehicles that are setting us back $60,000+.

[@mikenorsa5193]

Some great points and agree with almost everything. But not the hectic planning needed for full EV road trips. Between the Tesla software and or an app you're only a couple of taps on your phone from finding out every possible place to recharge along the route. Its really a non issue at all. For me, driving at 25k KMs/yr I save $4600 give or take on fuel per year compared to my old car at current fuel prices. That's 3.2 years of driving to break even after the added premium of buying the EV. I plan on driving this EV for the long term thanks to LFP chemistry's longevity. If the car makes it 20 years then that's $92,000 in fuel savings over the life of the compared to an equivalent ICE vehicle. So over the life of a full EV compared to the life a regular ICE vehicle you can most certainly save a tonne of money on fuel. Not to mention all the oil changes, fuel filter, air filter etc etc etc you won't have to pay for.

[@moyhennabuchanan1076]

20 years on 1 x set of batteries? yes, you'll still save but maybe round down your $92K estimate

[@ourkaravan]

I wish more people had plug-ins. Every day I walk past a line of cars at the local school, all are idling their engines to run AC. If all these vehicles were PHEV or Ev, the parking lot would be quiet and without all the heat and emissions pouring out of the vehicles. Once you have PHEV or EV, internal combustion just seems unrefined and wasteful. Also driving EV mode is really nice. Economically you're right, but the EV driving experience is not without reward.

[@faceclutch5555]

I can just buy a used PHEV 2-3 years old... In say 5 years from now when they start hitting the used car market.... And save save save.

[@benharris7957]

I think the future of cars is hydrogen power not electric !

[@hi9580]

Some plug ins has a mode/button which restricts the vehicle to ev only/tortoise mode even when more power is requested by the driver. They do not activate the engine automatically even if the scenario becomes dangerous.

[@geirvinje2556]

John has a point here, if the PHEV isn't more comfortable. The best, is to go full BEV. And, when the change is comming, you will lose money on your fossil, when you sell it. And, after some time you need to make your own fuel. I don't think Australia is there now, but Australia has the potential to go faster over to BEVs. This is because there are more factories now, then when Norway started to switch to BEVs. If you look at Norway that's over 2000 km long, the sale of BEV are now 80%. And Norway has also snow in the winter... and some time -20 degrees C, in Oslo.

[@gerrymccarthy9568]

Great video John, makes sense in AUS. Here in Ireland, my BMW X5 45e Sport cost €94k. The same car with the 30d engine, costs €120k. Exactly the opposite to where you are. It really makes sense to have the PHEV here, especially as about 80% of my driving is short journeys. I recently drove 136 km. 114.3km on battery.

[@graantmnz]

we had a niro PHEV ordered ( 6 months wait so plenty of time to reconsider if that was a good solution) and had been giving much thought as to whether PHEV was a good long term option due to the 20k odd cost over a petrol car. Your video analysis of the cost comparison added fuel to the thought process ...and what became important was , as you said - it may take 6-8 years of average driving to reach break even point...and at that point the battery (if not already gone on fire, or replaced under wty) would be near end of life ...which means , and who knows in 8 years, what a replacement will cost, or what battery technology will be available, and what it would cost to convert and install that available battery in the car at that point... ie resale value of a vehicle with a near stuffed battery, ( not much i suspect) vs the added cost of the new battery - all unknowns to any of us . So ...and 20k buys a lot of years of petrol....AND in the interim we can invest that 20k saved and have some income towards the petrol from it ...all things that go around in one's mind ...end of story = have cancelled the PHEV and bought a new petrol Kia, (like we have now) ...and saved 21K Time only will tell if it's the right decision, but we are happy with it....and we get 40k free servicing, (in NZ ) you dont get that with a PHEV PS ..full EV just isnt a consideration ; our charging infrastructure is in the same camp as Australia ( ie crap) and there wasn't diesel option offered on the NZ market..and I have a diesel Ford van.

[@Mububban23]

After 6-8 years, the battery won't be down to 0%, it'll be more like 70-90% of original capacity. So for a Nero PHEV, you'd drop from original 54km of EV-only range, to somewhere around 38-48km.

[@petesmitt]

LPG is on the outer but surprisingly, I've seen hybrid taxi's in Melbourne that are also converted to LPG; I'm sticking to using propane ICE as the emissions are very low and doesn't pollute the engine oil like petrol does.

[@351tgv]

Ford Australia with Falcon at the end had the excellent EcoLpi technology (basically liquid direct injection) sad that this technology was basically abandoned with the end of Falcon in 2016. That said LPG is not the answer right now with cost per litre depending on where you are from $0.99.9c Sydney Metro to something like $1.60.9 in Perth since most LPG cats still on the road use the much older vaporiser "carby" set up which were never that good at maintaining decent fuel.ecomomy unless doing steady consistent highway speeds. LPG only works when it's priced at $0.49.9 or lower

[@petesmitt]

@@351tgv that's why LPG is dying.. it's no longer economic to convert new ICE vehicles, especially now that ICE vehicles are supposed to become obsolete.

[@john1701a]

This video does not address the type of PHEV that prevents the gas-engine from ever starting. Both plug-in hybrids from Toyota will remain in electric-only even when you drop the pedal to the floor. No gas is used in EV mode. Both offer EV speed up to 84 mph. Both use electric heat-pumps for cabin warming. They are designed to operate like a BEV until the battery-pack is depleted. In other words, not all PHEV operate the same way, as this video implies.

[@minkman1770]

Chevy Volt is another example of that!

[@lesmansom7817]

It’s not the saving on fuel ,it’s the saving the planet for social currency that counts.😎👍

[@timothykeith1367]

What is the future for PHEV 1/2 ton trucks. Full EV trucks can't tow long distances

[@JamalHashe]

Very good arguments there John. Thanks. Given the new tax incentives recently announced, I would love how this stacks up? Any update on this topic will be appreciated very much.

[@mattpike7268]

I really like my 2023 ford maverick hybrid XL. Costed less than a new honda civic, and I'm averaging 45mpg. Over the 8k miles I've driven so far. If environmentalists are serious about reducing our fuel use, then lower priced hybrids are the fastest way.

[@SydneySewerat]

This is sort of a one sided reivew. Anyone doing 15K or more a year in mostly short trips with solar panels and the car is parked at home most days should seriously consider PHEV. And the new Outlander PHEV is a powerpack. And the 80km EV range and extra power will bliss you. You look at all the new aussie KZbin reviews, they all rave about it. Have a 2020 Outlander PHEV, got it new for $46K, $8K less than AWD version. Doing about 15K to 18K per year, mainly tearing around the suburbs in almost always EV mode bliss. I've tasted EV driving and simply can't go back to petrol. Acceleration is wonderful, gear changes bliss, smooth driving, quiet. No fear of engine warming cooling for many short trips. It's worth the extra $8K at least just for the experience. Also the marginal cost of driving is now mostly tyre wear and service, cause the 5.5 cents per kWhr feed in from my solar means energy is 1.5 cents per km. And who cares about the environment and health. If fuel stays around the $2/L into the future, I'm looking fwd to selling my PHEV for a whole lot less depreciation than the petrol versions. And for Australia, I feel that PHEV makes sense for the mainly urbanite who will want to go country from time to time. Considering the whole value proposition, new Outlander PHEV is pretty unbeatable. Which explains the 9mth wait.

[@valdius85]

I am considering PHEV in the future for additional reasons: * regenerative breaking during mountain trips * AC for the dog in the summer while being parked * access to electricity during camping * cooling and heating the car without the engine running, although it’s mentioned above already A standard Prius makes the biggest amount of sense on the grand scale, but let’s get realistic - no one wants to drive one :)

[@gold3084]

Concidering Australia is not oil self sufficient and what we do produce is refined overseas, then maybe it is a good bet 👍

[@scottwills4698]

good balanced review. I have a Mercedes A250e saloon and it does 45 miles per charge. I have done 10k miles in a year and 7k of them were electric only. One thing on the price - if the residuals of both cars were 50% in 3 years you would only need 30K km to break even. For now I think PHEV's are a good balance and a "gateway drug" to full EV later. The C300e Mercedes does 65miles electric only which is close to the original Leaf, i3 and Zoe range!

[@easy-draw]

When You buy PHEV you are not overpaying for the battery version to gas and then you have to drive 70k to break even. You are making investment do you know how much would cost you to get 20 kw battery for off-grid? Much much more than difference between norma outlander price and phev one

[@TurfSurf]

I did so much research before I bought my PHEV Honda Clarity. My MPGe is 199 the max the display can read! I can go on a long trip without any anxiety or careful planning along the charging the stations. 50 mile range EV option gets me around the town without issues and top it off at night is also super fast and easy.

[@evergreennj8950]

As you stated at the beginning, whether or not buying a PHEV is worth the $$$ depends on a number of factors. If it's time for me to move on from my 15 year old ICE car which I bought new and I'm in the market to buy a new car to replace it, should I buy another ICE car, a hybrid, a PHEV, a BEV, or a fuel cell car that would meet my transport needs? I have roof top solar at my home, most of my trips are local, and I make occasional long road trips beyond the range of BEVs available in the market. The Prius Prime and the Kia Niro PHEV are similar in size to the 2008 Toyota Matrix (around $20K in 2008) that I plan to replace but they cost at least $10K more. I would love to get a PHEV version of the BYD Dolphin (the standard range BEV version in China is around $16K and it can power your home or essential appliances via its battery during a power outage) but that's not available in the US. I can get a standard hybrid Prius or Niro for a few $K less but I wouldn't be able to take advantage of the electricity generated by my PV system. No consumer car is an investment meant to generate financial returns. The appeal of alternative energy cars is to reduce or eliminate carbon emissions and pollution at the point of use. The possibility that they can provide financial savings over time is just a bonus - especially if they can last 10 to 15 years for me.

[@adrianbird1139]

Spot on JC....again. We just did the math on Outlander PHEV and determined our period for return on invested capital exceeded the anticipated life of the car battery, even though we have rooftop solar + battery already installed. It's a lovely car, but it's not a car you buy simply for economic reasons.

[@manoman0]

...and that's why GM'S VOLTEC was and still is the most clever platform.

[@AnthonyJohns-w4q]

John ya bastard. I purchased an outlander PHEV because of your review on the Outlander 2023 model. I’ve got a novated lease through work. The Australian Gov concession with no FBT or GST was too good to pass up. Plus I needed to reduce my taxable income. If you talk shit on this car I won’t be happy mate😂

[@rickgraham8727]

Very informative video! Thank you! I may be one of the few whose PHEV has saved me money, since I bought a used 2017 Chevrolet Volt pre-pandemic in November 2019 for $16K US with 34k miles on it. I charge for free at work, so the 53 EV mile range of my car covers my 38 mile round trip commute to and from work comfortably. For my days off at my apartment complex I get a full 53 mile-EV charge for $3.50. A gallon of gas in Los Angeles costs roughly $6 and will propel my car for 42 miles under gas power only. My advice to others would be to buy a car that suits your personal driving needs, and try to buy a low mileage used car. Used cars have always been a much better value than new cars with their immediate depreciation as soon as you drive them off the dealer lot. With 109,000 miles on the odometer, my car has only been driven 25,000 using gas only: The remaining 84,000 miles were driven in EV mode only.

[@andyspam7663]

Most plug-in hybrids are still more efficient than non-hybrids when operating in gas mode, because they operate the Atkinson cycle instead of the Otto cycle and can take advantage of regenerative braking.

[@bme7491]

I bought my 2012 Prius Plug-In so I could qualify to drive in the HOV lane back and forth to work. One of the best cars I've ever bought. I typically get 20Km per liter of fuel. It has 220,000 Km and I have only needed preventitive maintenance.

[@shoveI]

My sister's had a BMW i3 (battery EV with little range extender gas engine) for a few years now and loves it... with one exception. Here in 'Murica there is only ONE supplier for tires that fit this car and they charge over $300USD /each for the tires, and they last 8000-15000 miles. That's it. Because of the unique characteristics of the car there isn't really a way to fit alternate tires or wheels on it. I used to own a Ford Escape Hybrid and that thing was fantastic, the eCVT on it worked brilliantly and I would love an equivalent drivetrain on every car I own. Friction CVT's might suck, but eCVT's are amazing.

[@napoleonnz]

I'm pleased to read this common sense from you as I'm in the market for a new car and your logical advice is appreciated as I go through the options. I'm not sure if you mentioned the additional depreciation due to the higher initial price of a PHEV as another cost factor, probably some $2K per year. It sharpens the mind when you are actually in the market and thinking carefully about how you will use the vehicle. In my case I'm now leaning more toward an economical small hybrid SUV (non plug-in) such as a Toyota Yaris Cross or Kia Niro Hybrid. I think petrol will be with us a long time yet to service the existing fleet and IMHO will remain affordable as demand falls after this current supply blip.

[@scootsmcdoots80]

I have a Rav4 Prime. It cost me $11,000 more than the hybrid, but I got $7500 back as a rebate so it actually cost me $3500 more at the end of the day. I have driven 70,000km on it and generally go 3000km - 7000km between filling up with gasoline. My commute to work is 40km each way, I plug in at work and I don't pay for electricity where I plug in at home. Even if I did pay for electricity it charges 12-14kWh each day and our average rate in Calgary is around $.08/kWh, so that would cost roughly $1.00-$1.30 per day. Keep in mind that is on days where I would plug in at home, which isn't every day, only days I drive it. When I drive straight highway I only get about 600km before the fuel light comes on, I know I can go farther but I fill it up when it comes on. For me, with how I drive to go 70,000km it would take me roughly 4500 litres of fuel to do. I would say I have driven around 50,000km in EV only mode (Honestly it's probably more) and 20,000km with the ICE. I'm sure I can go back and look at my receipts and figure out how much I have spent in fuel since I bought the car, I have an educated calculation of around 1300 litres of fuel and that's being generous on the fuel usage. With this, I can realistically say that I have "saved" spending money on around 3200 litres of gasoline. During my time of ownership the average price of gasoline in Calgary from January 2021 to July 2022 has been $1.4289/litre. To get this average I used statcan government site and selected regular unleaded gasoline monthly prices and it gives you an average for each month, I then divided that total by the number of months sampled. With my calculations I have not spent around $4570 on gasoline that I would have bought if it was driven purely from the engine. If I were to have been paying my electricity bill I would have been spending roughly an extra $534.00 for charging 417 times. I calculated that by using the 50,000km of EV range, divided by 60km because that is roughly what I average for distance on a charge, equals 833.33 and I divided that by 2 and rounded up to 417. So I would have charged at home 417 times, and worst case would have charged from empty which is only 16kWh because the 18kWh battery saves 2kWh of juice for hybrid mode. My net "savings" would be $4570 - $534 = $4036 in a year and a half. For my situation my break even has already happened, I am now saving money by owning this thing (compared to just buying a hybrid Rav4). Now, if I actually wanted to save money I would have bought an $11,000 Chevy Spark. I bought this because I liked it and wanted it, buying something of this price is not ever a savings. It will always be cheaper to buy a good used car or to take public transit if possible or to simply buy a cheaper car. It would take me about 10 years of similar performance to "save" enough to equal the cost of the cheapest vehicle available, which is the Chevy Spark. Don't let PHEV owners lie to you by letting them think they're saving money, they just spending a little less than they would have if they bought a non hybrid or a regular hybrid after a certain amount of kilometers driven.

[@vit8250]

I thought Australia had oil.

[@chrisbraid2907]

Hey John, say I buy me a Tesla because I live 200 km out in the country it makes sense to me to have a car that can round trip to town. With the traction capabilities to allow me to use it for on farm light duties fuel ? I don’t have to store any for my Tesla she plugs straight into my 240v Mains to charge overnight or if I’m in a hurry the 400v Three Phase in my Shed, garage or workshop … that’s got to be easier for me than handling fuel … Superchargers might be handy and quick but they aren’t the only option. All across Australia most houses come with 240v power making it pretty easy, not to mention camping grounds … I was blown away at wave rest village in Hopetoun Western Australia to find four charging stalls some six or seven years ago, powered by Solar, it was great to see and unexpected by me back then. It is estimated that there were 806 Teslas in Western Australia in may 2021 .there are now probably many more …

[@jscythe74]

So what about used?

[@joeyt583]

Overall a decent video, but here are a few counterpoints for why PHEV that I didn’t see covered in your video: The first point is that the price difference between the PHEV and none PHEV model is not quite as drastic everywhere, in the United States, it’s an $11k difference. As part of that difference, you also receive more standard features that you don’t get on the gas model (beyond the PHEV specific features). Additionally, many countries offer significant rebates for PHEV models, in my area, $7k of the $11k difference would be covered. A second point is that residual value is not considered here at all, PHEV vehicles typically have higher residual % vs non PHEV vehicles because of the higher demand and cost per mile savings. When you look at just #1 and #2 together, that alone may result in savings from day 1. For example, say person 1 buys the gas outlander for $35k and person 2 buys the phev outlander for $46k. Both people sell after 4 years ownership and put on 50k miles. Gas residual is 40% ($14k) and PHEV residual is 45% ($20.7k). Total cost of ownership on gas outlander was $21k, vs $18,300 on the PHEV (due to $7k rebate). This doesn’t even consider the fuel economy or gas savings over that 4 year 50k mile period, which could also be significant as the gas outlander would use roughly $7k worth of gas to drive that amount, whereas the outlander PHEV would easily cost half that much, with potential to be very close to zero depending on your usage and electric cost, making the total cost of ownership for the PHEV potentially half as expensive as the gas model over 4 years, but more likely to be 30% cheaper total cost of ownership. This alone basically justifies a PHEV, but there are additional points that I won’t cover all of, but other benefits such as ability to use carpool lanes, additional standard features in PHEV that you don’t get in gasoline version that also justify higher price, as well as PHEV specific benefits such as having a generator for backup power, or potential vehicle to load applications or even use of large battery as a type of power wall to reduce household electricity cost.

[@backwoodsbungalow9674]

Excellent summary; there is more value in your comment than the video. 👍

[@barrettwbenton]

Probably the most *truly* balanced overview of hybrids in general, and PHEVs in particular.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Thank you, BB.

[@wandererhalifax7440]

These are not facts at all. These are your own heavily skewed opinions. Every individual has a different use case, and one car that makes for your use case may not make sense for someone else at all. I don't have access to a charger where I live, but I have a charger at my work place. I can charge my PHEV twice a week without paying a penny, and my weekly commute is typically less than 50 Km, which means I can complete my weekly commute on EV mode most of the time. Thanks to the government rebates, the price difference between the gas model and the PHEV model that I purchased has already been more than amortized in less than 2 years of ownership. As of this summer, I started saving money thanks the PHEV purchase I made. Once this part of the world is fully ready for the EV charging infrastructure, I won't hesitate for a second to by a fully electric, despite the negative campaign of the oil lobby, their political alliance and their sponsored objective(!) youtubers.

[@AutoExpertJC]

Y-A-W-N. Sorry. Went to sleep. What?

[@wandererhalifax7440]

Better to fall asleep than offer misleading "expert opinions" for sure.@@AutoExpertJC

[@Quakamole-one]

Indeed, quite distorted 'objective' facts. I bought my Kuga for 29k euros. Charging it daily at work costs me 0L/100km. Out-of-city trips on regular hilly roads for about 600 km, starting with a full battery, gets me to about 5L/100km. On the highway with an empty battery, cruising at 140 km/h, I get 9L/100km. What more could you want for a 1.8-tonne car providing full comfort for both short and long trips?"

[@Dryloch]

I am probably the extreme lucky case for buying a PHEV. In April 2021 I was able to purchase a $48,000 USD 7 seat PHEV van for $40,000 after the discount. The tax rebate brought it down to more like $33,000. I already had a 240V charger in the garage and my electric company lets me charge for free overnight. I am averaging over 60 MPG, which is absurd for such a large vehicle. When the battery is out I get about 30 MPG on the interstate. The normal gas version of the car gets only 20 MPG. I usually get more EV range than the estimate because I avoid the interstate when I can. The time difference for most trips is minimally longer. On road trips it is easier to find a destination charger because I only need a 240 V one and not a fast charger. The mall where we vacation has them and so do most of the theme parks. Murica might be behind on a lot of things but we are getting closer on PHEV being a reasonable proposition. That being said, good luck getting a discount on any PHEV right now. I guess being lucky paid off for me you could say. I also fall into the camp that wants to stick it to the oil companies so there that.

[@sahhull]

What a different world we live in. For me an expensive vehicle costs £2000 My current van cost me £1500, 14 years ago. Its done 450,000 miles and its still going strong.

[@Dryloch]

@@sahhull It might be down to our ages. My first car was a $200 1977 Buick Lesabre. Green with green leather seats and accident damage on it. Other than gas mileage I loved that car. I had several similar junky cars after that due to bad luck of people t-boning me etc. The first truly nice car I had was when I was 35 years old. BTW the Van is already fully paid off.

[@jackd1582]

Free?? At night , not just low night rate . Here NZ if you choose a low night rate plan , the daytime rights penalise TF outa ya . So night rate only cost effective if have an ev gobbling power , rather than gas

[@Dryloch]

@@jackd1582 My electric company is not for profit so the customers actually own it. From Midnight to 6 AM the electricity is 0 cents a KW. From 6 AM to 1 PM and from 9 pm to midnight it is 8 cents. From 1PM to 9 PM it is 12.5 cents. That is a very reasonable peak rate. I take full advantage of it. I run the AC cold over night and then turn it down until like 11:30 AM. Then I crank it until 1 PM and then turn it down again. My monthly electric bill is at most $120.00 USD in the summer months.

[@jackd1582]

@@Dryloch Def take advantage of it like that . But what is it sourced from ? Nuke? Hydro? Hydrocarbons

[@rafaeladib2]

I purchased a 2018 Chevy Volt in 2021 for $20K, The car only had 14K miles on it. (basically a new car) I drive a truck for a living so I rarely drive it, only when I am home I go to the grocery store every week. I actually do plug it in when I need to. for me, this works perfectly fine. and it's a damn good car, quality built interior, oil change once a year. I do have to run the gas engine at least once a month just for up keep purpose.

[@Ryan.Cameron]

I purchased the PHEV Outlander because the car was so much more responsive and enjoyable to drive due to its torque than the standard petrol version which some consider to be average at best. Plus i have a novated lease and get significant FBT savings. I didn't really care about the petrol savings per kilometre because you are right, if that's the reason you are doing it you'll never make the money back.

[@dougstubbs9637]

Fighting for Peace… F*cking for Virginity…. Spending money to Save money….? The only good reason to spend 70 grand on a Mitsi is to get the opportunity to gawk down the top of the Dealership Ming Mole.

[@martinhunt4698]

Really well done piece. I was impressed you mentioned all the stuff about energy security and backup power for your house at the end. You basically ran through my entire thought process around buying the new Outlander PHEV. It’s a bit depressing I will have to drive 70,000 k’s before I break even, yes I do have solar. I will also get the Dendo Drive House system at some point allowing me to use the car as a battery for my home, which may allow additional economic benefits.

[@Snerdles]

This was a really great and balanced video on PHEVs. I have a PHEV and did the math when buying it and realized that even with government green rebates it will never pay for itself. I was looking at it more for the less reliance on gas and still being able to get groceries and to work during a fuel supply disruption. Also, it's a fun toy and gadget to play with, and that's not worth nothing.

[@dominiquecharriere1285]

My company asked me to change my VW Tiguan TDI for a (much smaller given the prices) EV. I mostly do city trips (commuting basically) and once a month a trip to the in-laws (200kms) but 2 or 3 times per year in go back to my valley in the Alps (1400 Kms in a row) or have to go to Paris (1300 kms). I'm resisting because of these long trips and because my company would only provide a small battery car (max 250 kms), my 13 hours trip would transform into 2 days, there are only 5 chargers on the road from Spain to France. So I'm asking PHEV and a charger at work. Your video is great, I had really not though about the weight thingy and the fact that for my long trips the car will "drink" much much more than my current TDI. I need to rethink the PHEV. BTW "Vlad" is rather the diminutive of "Vladislav", our Russian "amigo" should be addressed as "Volodia" Volodia Volodievich ...😉

[@MikeSmith-lx9jg]

I had my GMC 3500 denali for 6 years put 60k miles on it. Paid 53k dollars for it in 2016. Just bought a 2022 Kia Sorento PHEV SXP. With my Tax credit the cost of my new PHEV is 53k dollars . Im getting a average of 80 MPG. It was costing me 165 dollars to fill my GMC 3500. THATS RIGHT 80 MPG. AND thats driving 60 miles round trip a few times a week and lots of around town driving. WHat you seem to forget is that once you learn to use the regen breaking system you can get even more EV miles then the quoted 33 miles in EV mode.

[@paulharling7657]

My dad is in his 80's and is a Prius fan. He lives on a small island where the longest possible drive without loading the car on a ferry is 25 minutes from home. His typical trip is 6 to 12 minutes each way. He bought a new Prius on the spur of the moment without saying anything. He got the ICE. I was baffled why he didn't get a PHEV which would certainly drop his fuel consumption to essentially zero because of his rural short trip driving style. He said "the price. It did make sense". At the time the PHEV was $8000 more Canadian. I did the math and be was absolutely right. Using our relatively cheap electric costs, it worked out to a twenty year break even! That's without additional insurance costs (more expensive to fix or replace means insurance costs more) and extra maintenance costs for the dual system. It's unlikely the PHEV battery will last the lifespan of the car for a start. So he was right. The only logic to buying a PHEV would be if a person drove daily to work further than the range of the battery and could charge at home for cheap and for free at work for the return trip. Then they will get 60 to 80 kms daily provided by the battery. Essentially leave home with a full charge and arrive at their destination with zero. If they can't charge at work for the ride home or their commute is shorter than the battery range, the math doesn't work. Even then, it's a long wait to get to break even. In British Columbia the majority of our electricity is generated from gravity using hydro dams so we do have power that is as clean as feasible, so we do theoretically reduce air pollution using a PHEV - provided we drive it frequently and the pollution prevented exceeds the pollution created during the mining and manufacturing processes required to add the PHEV system.

[@robsengahay5614]

One concern I always had with a PhEV (not that there were many options in 2019 when I opted for a Tesla) was the added complexity of two separate drive trains. All the servicing costs of an ICE but are we storing up more issues down the line? For instance, say you mainly drove locally for several months in pure EV mode (work, school runs, shopping etc) all on electric and then had to fire up that engine for that holiday trip. How happy will that engine have been lying idle for 3-4 months?

[@stusue9733]

I thought JC made it pretty clear that was "unlikely". Now if you'd like to argue "How happy is the ICE with a cold start and going to 100% throttle when I need to overtake that truck up hill"

[@brianbradford3363]

The PHEV is programmed to run for a minimum amount of time, over a set period, in order to maintain fair lubrication of internals and accessory systems. A good friend has owned a really high km 8yo PHEV for a few years now and he says his maintenance costs have sunk massively. He says his rear brake pads have never been changed, and they are checked. He services the car every 8000km.

[@mondotv4216]

I have found the Outlander to be the most rock solid cars maintenance wise that I’ve ever owned. Despite the complexity you also have to account for less wear and tear in general, due to running a lot of the time in EV mode. Makes a bit of nonsense of the “complexity” argument. I’d say a modern automatic transmission is far more prone to failure than the Outlander’s drive train

[@stellabell6241]

One thing , fuel prices are going up over 7 years.. so need to factor that in too

[@albarghouthy]

Personally, I never thought of saving money if I'm looking to buy a new car. It's the value I'm getting, PHEV will serve me as an option added to the options that I like about the car like sunroof leather seats ...etc. For example I'm leasing a 2022 palisade ultimate calligraphy, I could've saved my self $13000 by opting for the essential trim instead, but I liked how the highest trim looks like. So if I wanna buy phev it won't be for the fuel saving it will be for all the bells and whistles that comes with it. So it depends on what would the highest non phev trim will offer vs the highest phev, then will evaluate if it worth spending the extra bucks

[@gabrielnwatarali5557]

Best ad for a flashlight I've ever watched and listened to. Bravo!

[@hal3137]

Perfect sum up of the situation , one of Johns best video's to date.

[@tareklarbi7168]

Thank you 🙏🏼 even in North Africa here, your analysis of the technology and its day to day usage, make sense 👍🏼 Good points indeed 👏🏼

[@trojanhman8136]

John, I will also point out, that the war in Ukraine wasn't responsible for petrol price increases. If you look at the financial news, it has just come out, about a week or so ago, that the petrol companies have doubled their profits. Yes, the Ukraine war was just an excuse. It is also worth noting that Australia has enormous oil reserves and that successive governments have refused to develop. instead deciding to support the globalists.

[@matthewrafferty4117]

I'd love to say they make great sense but unfortunately for most they don't. I think it would work for our family use but I'm not prepared to wait 12+ months for an Outlandr PHEV. My wifes comute is a 98km round trip so she could go to work and most of the way home with a fully charged battery. We drive the wife's car as a family car at times and do about 17-20k per year. We bought a Rav4 hybrid last year and it averages 5.8L/100 which is much better than her previous much smaller and less comfortable i30 SR Premium which drank 7.8L/100k. Our current Kluger hybrid uses only 5.2L/100km drinking cheap e10. I like driving a big car with small car economy. My daily Jeep Gladiator used 12.3L/100 which is acceptable for the type of car it is. A surprise to me though was a Hyundai Tucson we recently had as a loan car for a week. It was a base model petrol and was a very ordinary car that averaged 9.4L/100 over the 300km I drove it.

[@OFFTHECHAINCLIPS]

Got MG PHEV. 63K Full electric range. 46500k brand new 2022 model. Mid size SUV. You buy these to suit your driving. I do about 60k a day and charge back to full overnight. The odd long trip I do in hybrid mode charging costs $6. My work pays me .90c a km for work for my job. $54 a day for a cost to me of $6. 7 year warranty. MG will replace the battery within 7 years if it loses more than 20% of it capacity. The battery will be alot cheaper to replace in 10 years than now. For my life and work the hybrid is perfect. The ICE version is about 8k cheaper.