46% of EV Owners Want to Go Back to ICE; Ford Skunkworks Up to 300 Employees - Autoline Daily 3832

Autoline reports breaking global car news, with great insight and analysis. Also, top auto executive interviews. We cover electric vehicles (EV), autonomous vehicles (AV) and internal combustion engine technology (ICE), as well as car sales & financial earnings and new car reviews.
0:00 46% of EV Owners Want to Go Back to ICE
1:28 China EV Investors Shrug Off EU Tariffs
2:16 France Calls for More China Tariffs
3:03 Big Oil & Corn Join Forces to Oppose EV Regs
4:21 Honda Converts Kei Van to Pure EV
5:30 Honda & Mitsubishi Offer Battery Lease
6:50 Chinese Brands Outsell American Brands
7:38 Alpine Unleashes EV Hot Hatch
8:38 Ford Skunkworks Up to 300 Employees
9:32 BMW Refreshes 2 Series Coupe
10:18 BYD Has the Most Employees on Payroll
Story Links:
46% of EV Owners Want to Go Back to ICE: www.autonews.com/mobility-rep...
China EV Investors Shrug Off EU Tariffs: www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
France Calls for More China Tariffs: www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
Big Oil & Corn Join Forces to Oppose EV Regs: www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
Honda Converts Kei Van to Pure EV: global.honda/en/newsroom/news...
Honda & Mitsubishi Offer Battery Lease: global.honda/en/newsroom/news...
Chinese Brands Outsell American Brands: www.jato.com/resources/media-...
Alpine Unleashes EV Hot Hatch: media.alpinecars.com/alpine-a...
Ford Skunkworks Up to 300 Employees: techcrunch.com/2024/06/12/for...
BMW Refreshes 2 Series Coupe:
www.press.bmwgroup.com/global...
www.press.bmwgroup.com/global...
BYD Has the Most Employees on Payroll: www.autoline.tv/store/
Read the transcript here: www.autoline.tv/daily/ad-3832...
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WEBSITE: www.autoline.tv

[@ethanwelner1230]

That McKinsey survey directly contradicts numerous other surveys. Without knowing any of the details about the survey this is kind of meaningless.

[@stickynorth]

1000%

[@anydaynow01]

Agreed, I know a few who have swapped to an HEV (Toyota, Hyundai) from BEVs or PHEVs, but 46%, that's obviously bogus!

[@rotaryenginepete]

cope harder

[@ethanwelner1230]

@@rotaryenginepete For wanting to know a surveys methodology? Literally a few weeks ago a different survey showed EV brands had like an 80% brand loyalty rate. These surveys are constantly and directly contradicting eachother. Be smarter.

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@ethanwelner1230 for failing to realize that your answer is in the scope of the surveys. Your beloved Tesla survey was isolated, not global like this McKinsey study. That's not a contradiction, it's apples to oranges.

[@Cttechexpress]

I've never met an EV owner who wants to switch back to ICE for their daily driver. Maybe as a second car, weekend car or something else.

[@who2u333]

I've only heard the opposite. That they will 'never' go back to an ICE car.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Those individuals were not available for this McKenzie survey

[@sjruiz7]

@@who2u333 Same! Everyone I know says they will never go back. And this is in NC and SC not California.

[@holycrapchris]

I wonder how the survey question was worded. There are differences between: "As an EV owner, will your next car purchase be ICE or EV?" "As an EV owner, will you replace your EV with ICE?"

[@cars291]

I am on My second round as an EV for my daily. Done with that for the time being. My new ICE as trade-in will arrive in July. Well met.

[@godofdun]

McKinsey will find whatever statistic their customer will pay them to find. It would be interesting to find out who paid them for the study.

[@rp9674]

Their website even claims they work for oems

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! Who paid for the fucking study??? There's your answer!

[@thomosburn8740]

@@rp9674 they work for ICE-centric oems, clearly

[@A.Deveneaux]

I'm not sure how some of these polls are conducted, but I've never met any EV owner who wants to go back to ICE vehicles other than having another non-EV as a secondary one. We've switched all of the vehicles to full battery electric vehicles and have no plans of switching to ICE vehicles.

[@rp9674]

The question probably was: do you want to switch back to gas, every hater that never touched one said yes, or pre-selected participants, or completely falsified

[@stickynorth]

@@rp9674 Bingo! Bad polling and worse Journalism. Case closed. This channel is fast becoming a reactionary joke...

[@rp9674]

If I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt I'd say they're fishing with clickbait

[@BioniqBob]

@@rp9674 Anyone (with a brain) that read "42%" knew it is BS. These BS videos are for the uneducated.

[@jimthain8777]

@@rp9674 I think you hit the nail on the head. What's even more interesting, is that 3/4 of the video was about EVs, with one single gas vehicle at the end. (The rest is adverts!) Honda making EVs! That's very interesting!

[@jake5993]

All of the tesla owners i talk to will NEVER switch back cause they can plug in at home and basically be topped off everyday if they please

[@rotaryenginepete]

😂

[@user-jh6vt8vx4v]

If you are doing it at off peak hour, you are pretty much running for next to nothing

[@tomtom9879]

This smells like a Total BS. I have met zero EV owners who wants to go back to ICE. And I know at least 15 of them!!

[@wizzyno1566]

2 out of 3 in my office have actually gone back to ICE. Anecdotal evidence means nothing.

[@omelborpon3159]

The McKenzie survey was probably paid for by the American Petroleum Institute.

[@anydaynow01]

It depends, I know a few folks who don't feel safe or were in a line a few times and don't want to deal with public anymore and either already have or swapped to an HEV or are planning to soon. One of them who can charge at home bought a used Volt instead while they wait for their RAV4 Prime order to come in. But 46% that's really high, I would put it around 10-15%. Maybe 46% of people that have to use public charging exclusively in areas where charging is almost as much as fuel that don't own Teslas, but even that is up there. Myself I'm going to stick with a PHEV with an EV range that covers my daily driving until public charging improves drastically and the next generation of batteries comes out.

[@rotaryenginepete]

former EV owner here, no regrets going back to ICE

[@here2enjoy-bt8jq]

I'm the 16th one, I would love an ICE for long distance travels. And 100% ICE during rentals.

[@TStark-vj2wo]

Similar to other comments, not one of my EV owning friends wants to switch back to ICE.

[@JD-yx7be]

I know several people that bought another EV. I only know one to switch back to ice and that is because she had a 80 mile leaf and moved to a rural area before all sub $40k 200 plus mile EVs hit the market.

[@ImLivinSD]

None of that is supprising as all the early adoptors, typically with the higher incomes and home charging, would love them. Alas even if they burnt down their house and had serious issues they would just be QuietQuitting due to embarrassment. This whole thing baffels me. The Govt and Samsung killed the Galaxy phone due to random fire issues alas the Green party does nothing about random EV fires. Guess it's OK if a few buildings, families, ships, hotels, apartments, and car parks burn down. So long as we can keep virtue signaling.

[@rotaryenginepete]

I know we aren't friends, but I have zero regrets being a former EV owner

[@Av-vd3wk]

This EV hit piece brought to you by: Your Friends At Shell Oil and BP! 👏🏻

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! Autoline is FULL of shit!

[@zachlafond2652]

i wouldn't doubt some automakers are behind it too.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@zachlafond2652 They are stalling until they figure them out. That's their only hope for survival.

[@rotaryenginepete]

cope harder

[@omelborpon3159]

American Petroleum Institute

[@EnzroGreenidge]

The give away is "high cost of ownership " such hogwash. 🤣

[@rp9674]

True, my 5 and 1/2 year experience is extremely low cost of ownership

[@stickynorth]

Yup! What is Autoline smoking? Or who is Autoline smoking Clinton-style for that one...

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@stickynorth Just repeating what the McKinsey report said. Hmmmm, Kinsey Report ..... mostly fake.

[@rotaryenginepete]

cope harder

[@Thunderrolls87]

Once those battery packs go albeit way before a engine would they will be total throw away cars.

[@earthzero7]

🤣🤣🤣 That EV survey is an absolute JOKE! I have yet to meet an actual EV owner who would willingly switch back to an ICE car. Not a single one.

[@frankcoffey]

When they get back to their car after shopping and it's 160 degrees in there they will miss that EV.

[@cars291]

Whatever man.. My ICE trade in is in July. Cant wait. Done with spending time on my weekends waiting for chargers to become available. Your nice EV wont do much if you live in places with infrastructure falling behind. Mine became a liability to no fault of its own.

[@frankcoffey]

@@cars291 It's not much fun if you don't have a way to charge at home.

[@frameofmind7813]

@@cars291Yeah, being able to charge at home is a must.

[@earthzero7]

@cars291 This year alon is seeing a massive spike in new fast charger deployments.

[@desertmodern7638]

I'm an ICE driver, but several of my friends are EV owners, and I don't know of a single one who plans on switching back. If this statistic is accurate, it would seem to represent a lot of people who didn't think EV ownership through for their specific situation.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

I think it could also represent that many customers of the legacies - who likely paid for this study - don't like their lazy compliance EV products. Tesla, on the other hand, has the highest satisfaction rating in the whole market, followed by Porsche. As someone who just bought a Tesla again, I can say there's no way I would ever downgrade to an ICE product again, that's just ridiculous.

[@BioniqBob]

@@AllanSustainabilityFan Only someone spewing crap would even believe it. 42% of them have never even driven an EV.

[@rotaryenginepete]

as a former EV owner I can vouch that these statistics are spot on, but as for "thinking it thru" my previous EV was totaled and at this time there are not enough pros to outweigh the cons of buying another EV

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@BioniqBob Yep, notice how this research, by a shady company that paid a $642M settlement to 50 states due to its role in promoting opioids no less, all about sponsor money with them, is accompanied by news of oil companies lobbying against EPA mandates. They're in panic mode, these market dinosaurs, the next logical step is the astroturfers.

[@thomosburn8740]

I work with one older lady who was terrified of one-pedal driving and did not know how to turn it off in her ID.4. She is the ONE who switched back that I know of. Literally no others.

[@peterrempala7982]

Got 2 EV, and never meet an EV owner the wants to go back to ICE. I call BS on this story.

[@YongLi-np3wg]

The penetration rate of EV and PHEV in China has exceeded 50% last month.

[@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl]

So what?

[@billybobbob3003]

china=coal power grid

[@joebachmeier6747]

​@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nlIt's 33% of the world market. Why would any automaker worry about 1/3 of their market... they have enough money I guess.

[@BioniqBob]

@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl "So what?" says the uneducated fool.

[@yo2trader539]

@@joebachmeier6747 They would if Chinese automakers were making profits by selling BEVs in China. The reality is almost every Chinese automaker is losing money in China for each BEV sales. In such a market environment, the more market share results in more losses.

[@mike168168]

The same consulting company that’s under investigation for fueling the opioid crisis?

[@rp9674]

Yes thank you, just looked it up

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Oh wow, I looked that up just now, that's crazy, and at the same time doesn't surprise me lol.

[@stickynorth]

1000% Nothing from that company should EVER be listened to... In fact it's just lazy propaganda as is this channel...

[@rotaryenginepete]

please explain how a consulting company "fuels the opioid crisis"? the shear ignorance of your statement knows no bounds

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@rotaryenginepete That's your homework, it's not hard to find that news. They paid that massive fine due to their role, 'nuff said about how far they go for money.

[@michaelmackey754]

I don’t believe that at all every single person I’ve talk to you they absolutely love their electric vehicles

[@BioniqBob]

English

[@stickynorth]

TRUTH!

[@rotaryenginepete]

as a former EV owner I demonstrate how your statement is false

[@BioniqBob]

@@rotaryenginepete LIAR

[@BioniqBob]

@@rotaryenginepete You just borrow other's cars, EV = Everyone's Vehicle.

[@grahamcastle8189]

More EV FUD, 98 percent of EV users in UK say they would never switch back to an ICE car. You need to evaluate your sources better and avoid click bait.

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! This channel just spouts whatever shit the manufacturers who advertise on here tell them too! rather pathetic!

[@rotaryenginepete]

it was a global study and the vast majority of the globe doesn't live on a tiny island full of half wits that drive on the wrong side of the road, so cope harder

[@rotaryenginepete]

it sucks when EV FUD becomes factual 🤣

[@Av-vd3wk]

Mc Who?? What a BS smear piece.

[@MM-sf3rl]

Who paid for McKenzie to do the analysis?

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@MM-sf3rlValid question

[@stickynorth]

Bingo! It's automakers steering us against BEV's because they aren't making money hand over fist on 'em... Hybrids which are the most unreliable? And profitable? Of course!

[@rotaryenginepete]

cope harder

[@BioniqBob]

@@rotaryenginepete Did you escape from the coop, chicken brain.

[@JT_771]

Gotta wonder about that survey. Tesla sells the most EVs in the US by far. And they have a loyalty rate of about 70%. Few Tesla owners complain about charging. Smells like an 'everyone else' survey. The other brands will get a nice boon as the Tesla network opens. And clearly more is needed here as said network must expand with ownership.

[@yo2trader539]

80% of Tesla sales in the US originates in "Blue" zipcodes. Buyer demographics are mostly college-educated White and Asian males. Sales are concentrated in California, Florida, Texas, Washington, New York, NJ, etc. And California has 5x more sales than in Florida. Thus, if you do the survey only in California, I'm sure the results are very different.

[@rp9674]

Pretty sure every EV hater said yes I own an EV and I'm going back to gas. Maybe I'm being naive it could be completely made up

[@DavidC-pg6ni]

@@yo2trader539””Sales are Concentrated in the Largest Population States” would have been easier to type. Of COURSE California, Texas and Florida have the most sales. They have the MOST CARS too.

[@yo2trader539]

@@DavidC-pg6ni I had no idea California had 5 times more population than Florida, Texas, Washington, or NY.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@yo2trader539 They have a LOT more EVs than NY. They are rare here, but starting to turn.

[@eddieg6436]

I charge my BMW i3 electric FOR FREE at my local mall! I walk my 10,000 steps there M-W-F and get there in the morning before the mall crowds. The fast chargers are FREE! It’s been this way for 7 years now, not sure it’ll last forever, but so what! I’ve ALREADY had 7 years of free charging!! There has been ZERO maintenance on the car since I bought it in 2016…..ZERO. I have a sports car for my road trips 200+ miles away. 🤷🏼‍♂️🤔😎🥂

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Change the cabin air filter!

[@eddieg6436]

@@jamesvandamme7786 ……I have the car in the Seattle area…cleanest air in the nation, after Maine. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@eddieg6436 cleanest air next to Maine, now that's a funny joke 😂

[@BioniqBob]

7 years EVing, will never go back to the ICE age. Not one person I have talked to would even think about ICE, other than in their drink.

[@freddiecarr7602]

You never talked to me!

[@BioniqBob]

@@freddiecarr7602 I tend to avoid the uneducated.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Same, happy Tesla owner here, can't imagine downgrading to ICE again.

[@rotaryenginepete]

as a former EV owner, you have now talked to at least one person 😂

[@BioniqBob]

@@rotaryenginepete LIAR

[@roxter299roxter7]

Gee oil and ethanol producers are against higher epa gas standards? Who would have guessed.

[@jimthain8777]

What amazes me is how many people seem to want to continue to breathe toxic fumes from vehicles! It's totally gross, and so 20th century!

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@jimthain8777 Emissions Analytics proved that EV's have 1800x more tire emissions than ICE. And tires are made from...wait for it...OIL!

[@frankcoffey]

Love the news that Ford has a team working on EV technology. I would love to see them surprise everyone with some fantastic vehicle (or upgrade) in the next year or so.

[@kevtheobald]

I love how these surveys of usually a small group are supposed to be speaking for hundreds of millions of people. This smells like a short seller hedge fund agenda that might be pushing this survey.

[@rp9674]

Wording of the question could be simply "do you want to switch back to a gas car from EV" the people that never owned EVS especially the haters will say yes. Results presented and interpreted as fact

[@rotaryenginepete]

you mean just like the voting polls that tell us political candidates who support EV mandates are most popular? 😂😂

[@frankcoffey]

I'm sure BOSCH and other parts makers love hybrid and PHEVs because they have thousands more parts than an EV.

[@stickynorth]

That's sadly 100% true... And the highest risk of fire or break down? Hybrids obviously due to their complexity... A mere 5 second google search confirms this despite what this idiotic channel is trying to tell us...

[@mebran1193]

How close is this to cigarette, leaded gas, asbestos and pfas

[@jimthain8777]

Very close indeed!!

[@SamA-ho8uj]

The other half are Tesla owners. As a Tesla owner, I will never go back to ICE

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Yep, seconded 👍

[@jasoncunnion1240]

Me too… 👌

[@dontelindsey5846]

If their interiors were better I'd consider one but they have plastics and fit and finish like a Dodge from the Daimler era.

[@MrCarGuy]

​@@dontelindsey5846Definitely not

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@dontelindsey5846 1. I would say the material is high quality these days, you can tell by knocking on the panel, it's not the sound or feel of cheap plastic. 2. As for fit and finish, Fremont models used to have issues in before 2020, they got better these days, but if you want the best quality I'd recommend the ones from the newer factories - Texas, Shanghai, Berlin - which don't have that baggage from them buying an old legacy factory. 3. Also Take a look at their Model 3 highland refresh, they upgraded things further, most reviews call it the ultimate car. "it takes what’s good about the Model 3 and makes it better while fixing things that always bothered me, including bumps and road noise." My Model 3 came out flawless even though it likely was made in Fremont, so that's one recent anecdote. My Model Y that I have now is also flawless, I inspected both before taking delivery. I hope that helps. Worth a test drive imho.

[@tumbleweed1976]

Always leery of a survey 🎈

[@sergiomessina2037]

Elon Musk one said that "80% of all statistics are incorrect".

[@DavidC-pg6ni]

@@sergiomessina2037 There’s Liars, Damn Liars and People who Lie using Statistics. 😂

[@stickynorth]

@@sergiomessina2037 And if Elon said it you know it's true... 150% of scienticians know that! ;-)

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@sergiomessina2037 Half of what you hear on the internet is wrong, said Abraham Lincoln.

[@sergiomessina2037]

@@DavidC-pg6ni Elon Musk one said that 80% of all statistics are incorrect.

[@apostolakisl]

I have to say, this majorly flies in the face of my first hand experience. I have had an EV for 2 years now, the only cost of ownership issue has been the insurance, which i just switched to something more reasonable. Otherwise it is just electricity and windshield wiper fluid. Compared to gas, it is a fraction of the cost. I know lots of people with EV's. None have gotten rid of theirs and several have bought a second. Almost all of those people are Tesla owners. A friend with a Rivian tells me he likes it and another with a Mache also says he likes it. I suspect they would complain about charging it, though I think they both should now be able to use Tesla chargers, or at least soon.

[@rp9674]

Me too, 5 1/2 years of EV ownership

[@jamesvandamme7786]

"Well, there's the batteries you have to replace every two years, and the coal you have to generate power for it...."

[@rp9674]

​@jamesvandamme7786 I have two 2015 EVS Southern California 54 percent of energy comes from renewables, 39 percent natural gas, the rest nuclear. You're wrong about everything just say you hate EVs for no reason and know nothing about them or power grids

[@apostolakisl]

@@jamesvandamme7786 Dang, I must have replaced my battery last year and forgot I did it.

[@rotaryenginepete]

just wait until your warranty expires 😂😂

[@johnperduloski]

I’m on my 3rd EV…..high cost of ownership….thats not true.

[@wizzyno1566]

It is for anyone who bought in 2022 and 2023. Unfortunately that's a big percentage of owners.

[@joebachmeier6747]

​@@wizzyno1566What are you talking about?

[@BTC_Minarchist]

I can see this being the case for someone who does not have home charging and has to drive long distances and rely primarily on DC fast charging. Or, if the buyer was an absolute dumbass and paid way over MSRP (Looking at you Hertz)... Those poor, financially illiterate folks are getting hurt due to the depreciation. Again - Hertz... So, so stupid. 1- Paid full price 2 - At the height of high prices 3 - And hired people to sit at PCs to order individual cars online when told they would get no special treatment or fleet sales advantages. Now people who might not have been able to afford an EV can thank Hertz for making used EVs more affordable 😂🤣

[@kelviskelvis7140]

@@BTC_Minarchist Total nonsense and totally subjective

[@davidhuber6251]

I'm kinda liking not having to pay for oil changes. or transmission fluid changes, or diff fluid changes, or fuel filters or PCV filters or spark plugs or air filters, etc. Tires do cost more and don't last as long, but that is more than offset by the above, and that's not factoring in how much I save on gas. Even if it wasn't less expensive to maintain... It's way more fun to drive.

[@mikedx2706]

That new tiny Honda van would make a great urban taxi.

[@Clint-stanley]

Why does Tesla have an 83% repeat rate. This is poorly researched. Maybe the non NACS EVs realize their mistake. When the Juniper Model Y hits the market, I expect crazy good EV numbers.

[@stickynorth]

Autoline really needs to label their shitty advertorial content more closely... News and opinion need to be kept separate but these lazy for profit hacks mix everything together like Fox News... It's bad journalism firstly and secondly it creates a very misleading and myopic image of what the market trends really are which I suspect they don't give a shit about. Just money from manufacturers and suppliers to keep the babble going...

[@themidgetsman]

Because the people that bought Tesla were EV early adopters. As they get to the more main stream buyers the results of the survey will change.

[@jamesvandamme7786]

When all the cheap EVs hit the market, we'll see who is right.

[@rotaryenginepete]

it was a global study

[@rotaryenginepete]

Elon Musk once said that 80% of all statistics are incorrect. 😂😂😂

[@billjohnson3022]

That seems to have missed the recent poll that showed 90%+ of Tesla owners wanting to buy another Tesla when the time comes. Lies and damn lies.

[@rotaryenginepete]

probably because that Tesla poll was regional and the scope of this study was global

[@slowercuber7767]

0:42 Of course the charging network is NOT ADEQUATE. Duh. It is fine for me, I drive a Tesla, charge at home and when on the road pretty much stick to interstates and where I checked that superchargers will be available. Of over 50 charging sessions I've never had a problem. The only time I've even had to wait was once at the site where I chose to watch the eclipse in April. BUT if you don't have access to the Tesla charging network you'll find long trips more of a challenge. If you can't charge at home, one of my favorite benefits of owning an EV would be denied to you. Until level 2 home charging is available and a charging network with at least the availability and reliability of Tesla's current network, having an EV can be a bit of a drag.

[@just_some_internet_guy]

Well said!!

[@davidbeppler3032]

Simply put. Buy Tesla.

[@kelviskelvis7140]

@slowercuber7767 I don't own a tesla (thank you very much) and I do charge at home and I do road trips across the country. Availability of the destination charger has been getting better in 2024 and so has the road tripping challenge of the past few years. Availability and reliability of Tesla's fast charging network has never been an issue because I never used it nor gave it any thought. I do carry around and use the J1772 to tesla adapter to use at destination Level 2 chargers as needed, but that is about it. With N/A moving to a J3400 with CCS communication as one standard is a good thing for EV ownership except for those pre-2021 tesla's (and leaf's) that will not benefit from the J3400 standard.

[@slowercuber7767]

@@kelviskelvis7140 EXCELLENT. I’m glad to hear of folks being happy with their EV experience, regardless of brand or model. I’ve just heard about problems, especially with the EA network, glad you’ve dodged them. BTW: I also carry the level 2 J adapter for destination charging and even a full CCS-1 to NACS adapter just in case, but so far yet to need either.

[@slowercuber7767]

@@davidbeppler3032 I am only saying it works for me and is less risky, but many find their needs met quite adequately by other brands. Of course. Some with money to burn might prefer one of the new Porsche EVs, and a used Chevy Bolt is hard to beat, and not a bad commuter car, I’m told, just not the best pick for road trips due to its relatively low 50kw top charging speed. Many prefer a Rivian, and I’ve seen several R1Ts and R1Ss, even a R1T charging at a supercharger back in December.

[@FrankGallagherr]

Tesla is the best car company ever! No gas stations, No oil changes, No smog check, No corrupt dealership, No catalytic converter and faster than a $650,000 Lamborghini !

[@Bum_Hip]

18 months of EV ownership. I have none of those issues. Maybe my part of the country has better charging infrastructure, and maybe I have been lucky with maintenance issues. But I love mine. Several 700 mile round trip road trips with just one hiccup charging, ever too. Plus its pretty nice never going to a gas station. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@psv998]

just got a model Y never will go back to ice.

[@billybobbob3003]

joke

[@sjruiz7]

@@billybobbob3003 Where is the joke?

[@billybobbob3003]

@@sjruiz7 tesla=ponzi scheme

[@davidhuber6251]

Me too. Gas cars are just dumb.

[@BobbyDazzler888]

@@davidhuber6251thats simply an ignorant comment. Both have their place in 2024.

[@roxter299roxter7]

How the f*** does an EV have a high cost of ownership? It’s maintenance free and cost about $50 a month to run. I like how you frame the data. You could have said that 54% of all EV owners will never go back to ice.

[@wizzyno1566]

Depreciation

[@adamm202]

Cost of ownership also includes higher insurance rates.

[@davidgrisco1939]

Um, every EV maker has service department, including Tesla

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@davidgrisco1939Service is only one factor. And, that was not his question. The question was about it being high, not about having a cost of ownership.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@wizzyno1566I think you're correct that depreciation over the past couple of years has had the biggest impact on EV TCO. Most people don't realize that depreciation is part of TCO and assume, incorrectly, that service costs are the driver.

[@zroger73]

After nearly three dozen ICEVs, I purchased my first EV - a Tesla - a year and a half ago. I have NO plans to ever buy another ICEV. My brother-in-law also has no plans to switch back from his Tesla. A friend did not replace his Mach-E with another EV after it was totaled last year, but he plans to purchase a Model Y as his next vehicle.

[@who2u333]

Agency overreach is the current GOP/industry method for opposing rule/regulation. No surprise that the EPA MPG rules would be opposed using this tool.

[@kevtheobald]

Oil industry has an obvious reason to fight the EPA and so does ethanol industry. Their is not much of a future for them on the EV economy that is taking over. The unlikely partners spin on this story felt not well thought out. If not for government laws and regulations, we would still have lead gas, no smog equipment, and horrible safety standards. Can the government overreach, sure, but more often the push back on new laws is profit driven. Public safety is in theory what give should be pushing.

[@rotaryenginepete]

big lithium needs to cope harder 😂

[@arnoldss383]

​@@rotaryenginepetethat's true the damage done is not easily seen so these people believe the environmental impacts dont exist doesn't exist.

[@arnoldss383]

​@@rotaryenginepetealso its more than just regulating ICE out of existence. They want a total takeover of humanity in the name of stopping the evil CO2 and global warming. We'll be eating lab meat, bugs, paying carbon taxes, and may have our life expectancy limited once we become obsolete.

[@Harrythehun]

Those wanting to switch back to ICe must be Nissan, Renault and GM owners.

[@zachlafond2652]

We own a tesla and a Ford ice. I drive both of them about equal. I put $50 in gas in the ford and i figured the same amount of miles driven in the Tesla (home charging) would be about $15. I also much prefer not having a transmission. The acceleration in the Tesla is so smooth and linear. On a long roadtrip i'm not sure if the Tesla has much advantage other than much better technology and slightly lower cost..supercharging eats away at fuel savings.

[@backdoormanintheend]

I had zero issues using EA and Circle K on my recent Georgia to Virginia trip. I feel really good about using the Tesla chargers for the same route now that I have an adapter (Lectron) for my Ford Lightning Pro. I tested the adapter on a local Tesla charger here in Norfolk. No problems. A model S owner said that was the first Lightning he'd seen. I kind of doubt that but is part of the beauty of owning a Lightning (after owning a model 3 then Y) in that it blends in with every other truck! I use Plugshare for my route planning since Ford navigation doesn't appear to support planning to Tesla chargers even though you can see them in the FordPass app. Of interest, it cost $80 less per month for my new truck insurance through USAA than it did for my four year old model Y!

[@jamesg6491]

I’m currently an ardent ICE proponent. My current ride even has the traditional old school standard transmission. With that said, I cannot wait to jump in to join, and be an owner of a solar EV auto cycle Aptera AWD. Slated for a tentative delivery of 2025. Local pickup, from nearby Carlsbad Aptera HQ/factory. 👍 👍

[@petersimms4982]

Not me, ive been a mechanic for 40yrs , best thing i ever did was buy a Tesla 😊😊

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Last thing a mechanic wants to do is work on his own car.

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@jamesvandamme7786 a good mechanic doesn't need to

[@Travlinmo]

I have met Bolt owners with the terrible slow charging who had the fire prone vehicles unwilling to give them up. Story sounded like FUD from a BS consultant.

[@rotaryenginepete]

did you ever pause to consider that former EV owners no longer drive EV's? 😂😂😂

[@JdiamondBTC]

What is high cost ownership mean I don't buy it

[@rotaryenginepete]

higher entry prices, higher insurance, higher repair costs, DCFC is more expensive per mile than gas, more frequent tire changes, etc.

[@arnoldss383]

Teslas are more expensive to fix out of warranty than other cars. Most Toyotas don't need much out of warranty and you have more repair options when you do. With Tesla you have a 4 year 50k mile warranty that covers the entire car. Wear and tear is not covered. Only batteries and drive units are covered for 8 years. Past 8 years it's worthless.

[@stephenplamondon8698]

I wouldn’t ever go back to gas!!!😂

[@beehappy7797]

Going back to gas is like going back to the cave.

[@jonathanf.9395]

You lost me at McKinsey

[@sergiomessina2037]

I'm curious, of the 46% of EV owners that would go back to ice, how many of them were Tesla owners?

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

I think we can add 1+1 here: 1. Tesla has the highest satisfaction rating in the entire market, followed by Porsche. 2. Tesla has the highest share of US EVs at around 60 percent-ish. 3. This study is likely funded by legacy sponsors, as is the case with such marketing research firms. Conclusion: Legacies may have wanted to send a different message, but the real message here may be that their customers are dissatisfied with their lazy compliance products, to the point where even the dominant player, Tesla, can't save their low satisfaction score. Ironically Tesla's opening up of the supercharger network may help these laggards out in this department, saving them from their own lackluster ecosystem planning.

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@AllanSustainabilityFan the cybertruck debunks your entire argument

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@rotaryenginepete How so.

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@AllanSustainabilityFan because it has record high complaints

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

@@rotaryenginepete Oh ok, so just a vague claim off consumed entertainment, with no actual statistics behind it.

[@jim97405]

How could you miss this? "Tesla has some of the most loyal customers of any car brand. According to a 2024 survey by CleanTechnica, Tesla has an 87% brand retention rate, which is higher than competitors like Lexus (68%) and Toyota (54%). S&P Global Mobility's 2023 Automotive Loyalty Awards also found that Tesla had the most loyal buyers, winning four out of nine loyalty awards for manufacturer and make. "

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

It's also amusing to find this out about this market research firm: "McKinsey Settles for Nearly $600 Million Over Role in Opioid Crisis" "The settlements come after lawsuits unearthed a trove of documents showing how McKinsey worked to drive sales of Purdue Pharma’s OxyContin painkiller amid an opioid crisis in the United States that has contributed to the deaths of more than 450,000 people over the past two decades." Seems like a good place to go to pay for shady "research" studies.

[@Errr717]

I like the Honda Kvan

[@thatscottishengineerguy9606]

Regarding the unhappy EV owners: It would be interesting to see a breakdown of which makes/models they own.

[@DavidC-pg6ni]

Or if they are ACTUALLY EV owners. 🤣

[@rotaryenginepete]

I have no regrets being a former EV owner, the 2012 Volt and 2014 Model S just didn't cut it for me

[@kylerobinson7572]

I have owned four EV’s and currently own two. I take trips from Arizona to California and Arizona to Wyoming on a regular basis. I don’t have a problem with charging. It just takes a little more planning. Anyone that owns a home can definitely use an EV and it is much better than an ice vehicle. People in apartments and condos. It is much more difficult, hopefully the infrastructure will continue to improve

[@Bikerbug2020]

The Car that needs to be sold is a Hybrid-Diesel, it would get 100 mpg.. But I guess that would kill Gas Taxes and starve the Oil Industry.

[@rotaryenginepete]

Yep. VW made one that got 280 mpg, it had a bright future until big lithium EU got involved

[@brucemcintyre295]

I would only believe these numbers if you broke them down to Tesla and other EV owners. No way that 40% of Tesla owners would ever want to go back.

[@rotaryenginepete]

yeah, it's probably much higher now after the tidal wave of cybertruck owners trying to bail

[@juliahello6673]

How is this so different from other surveys?

[@BioniqBob]

Oil companies were not behind the other ones.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

The devil is always in the details. You can't take any survey at face value. Regardless of the outcome, question everything and understand the methods used.

[@rp9674]

Conflict of interest, they work for oems

[@jamesvandamme7786]

You mean like cigarette surveys that show how healthy they are? Or the one that showed hat 90% of doctors who tried Camels prefer women?

[@BioniqBob]

@@jamesvandamme7786 I think it was 85%

[@thomosburn8740]

Clearly the survey was worded unusually, or the results cooked to yield that INSANE result. I am a 4-year EV owner, know many EV owners and have spoken at length to MANY more, and I can only think of ONE person I know (she is in her sixties) that returned a newly purchased EV because they were terrified to drive it (she was intimidated by charging, and she couldn't figure out how to turn off one-pedal driving, which she hated). ONE person out of HUNDREDS that I have discussed EVs with.

[@IndigenousEarthling101]

I suspect the sample of American EV owners was "balanced" across EV brands (e.g., equal representation for Nissan Leaf, Fisker Ocean, Toyota BZ4X, and Tesla Model Y owners). If so, then the survey would be skewed from actual American EV owner brand demography, which is mostly Tesla vehicles and which likely have a higher percentage of owners who want their next vehicle to be an EV.

[@rp9674]

I'm not even sure it was that honest

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@rp9674 you would need to first understand what honesty is

[@rogerlafrance6355]

Location and use are key. That E-Kei, besides being practical for urban use, is a good third world solution aand you could even make your own energy.

[@user-su5bg3ii8n]

I own the slowest fast charging EV . I love it and I’m never going back. 99.5% i charge at home. When i travel i chose my route in less than year the it went from 2 choices to stop and charge, now there are 8 locations.there a limit to the amount of liquid a fuel tank will hold. There’s a finite amount of room for the tank. The “tank” on a EV keeps getting bigger, cheaper and lighter plus quicker to fill. Only a person who wont listen to facts would want an ICE.

[@rotaryenginepete]

here's some facts for you: Tesla Model 3 BEV (590 kg lithium ion battery pack) X (0.15 kWh/kg) = 89 kwh capacity @ 95% EV efficiency = 85 kWh usable propulsion energy from 1300 lbs of battery pack Avg ICEV (15 gal or 40.5 kg gasoline) X (12.9 kWh/kg) = 522 kwh capacity @ 30% ICE efficiency = 157 kwh usable propulsion energy from 89 lbs of fuel Avg ICEV (15 gal or 48.3 kg diesel) X (12.7 kWh/kg) = 613 kwh capacity @ 30% ICE efficiency = 184 kwh usable propulsion energy from 106 lbs of fuel BYD ICEV (16 gal or 43.2 kg gasoline) X (12.9 kWh/kg) = 557 kwh capacity @ 46% ICE efficiency = 256 kwh usable propulsion energy from 95 lbs of fuel

[@user-su5bg3ii8n]

@@rotaryenginepete wonderful but remember that’s now not future. Thanks for info

[@petersimms4982]

Absolutely, I like everyone thought, oh yehhh, no services??? Gleefully I’m astounded 😊

[@P.Galore]

If some company started converting collector and special interest cars for around $7500 installed, there would be a HUGE business for it. These cars are rarely driven far, so range is not an issue and 300 hp is more than sufficent.

[@pauliussutkus8157]

brain dead say no. infastructures is new and keeps growing . maintenance is low

[@apostolakisl]

"But a new analysis of 12.6 million new retail vehicle registrations in the US during the 2023 calendar year by S&P Global Mobility shows that Tesla is still dominant when it comes to brand loyalty." From an article in Electrek

[@rotaryenginepete]

sponsored by big lithium😂

[@troiskilove3411]

Every EV owner I have ever met says they will never go back to ICE

[@bluezcluez315]

46% of horse-less carriage drivers wanted to go back to their horse in early 1900s. Gasoline was difficult to find and questionable quality; horses can eat grass anywhere! Also, McKinsey is the company that said the global cell phone market would never surpass 1M units. Disruptive innovation can’t be modeled in Excel no matter how much you bill per hour.

[@spiritedgarage]

Lol. Imagine wanting to go back to playing gas price roulette. 😂

[@h3e44]

I feel these tariffs aren't going to go the route they think

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Well, it will give the legacies time to get their shit together.

[@stevespawn1]

I have solar and get free energy from the sun. Zero range anxiety-Tesla. I miss having to pay $4.50 per gallon to drive 20 miles. lol- I had to pay $640 to replace 2 rear tires on my 2021 model Y performance. Driving a performance Tesla changed my view of what a car should be-so I got one. Fun fun fun. I don’t understand how people would want to go back to ice unless their electric car was lousy.

[@benb4414]

Who did they survey? Big oil workers that have own or lease a BEV?

[@rp9674]

The survey doesn't sound plausible, consulting firm McKinsey & Co. works with oems, who have internal conflicts and are trying to get away from EVs and sell hybrids/gassers instead. Not an impartial polling group, conflict of interest. The biggest Eevee problem I could see is people that only do public fast charging, I don't understand why they don't find other options, level 2 Charging is almost always cheaper and more reliable

[@rp9674]

High Cost of ownership, no, ask want someone who's owned an EV, we've owned gassers so we know the difference

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@rp9674 I went back to ICEV's precisely because my old EV's had orders of magnitude higher cost of ownership

[@rp9674]

Should use washer fluid not fine wines in your Taycan

[@BryceLovesTech]

I have 180,000 miles on my Model S. I would never go back to gas. I’ve convinced dozens of people to switch to electric switch. I’ll call BS, I do tell people all the time if you don’t have a place to charge at home do not buy electric car. It always use the right tool for the job.

[@DavidC-pg6ni]

There’s plugs at Malls and Grocery Stores and many workplaces and parking lots.

[@rotaryenginepete]

I drove a Model S too and I have zero regrets being a former EV owner

[@dewiz9596]

I think I’ll After Hours a pass today. Well done, Sean

[@KyaloSengani-ou2hl]

Hey are you sponsored by ol companies

[@RayNLA]

I’m in the 54%

[@nickmcconnell1291]

I can understand why someone who bought an OEM EV with puny performance, subpar range, crappy updated software, and few chargers outside of home, would want to give it back. The problem is not EVs.... the problem is your choice of EVs. You should have bought the Tesla!! Truly the mistake most EV buyers make is not going with a Tesla. Tesla has the largest charging network with a 99.79% availability, the best intuitive smooth software that gets regular updates adding new features, kickass performance smoking all but the fastest ICE cars, and has no required maintenance to stay in warranty. Why bother with another brand? Go with the top player.

[@Bum_Hip]

How are oil, and ethanol companies not wanting fuel efficiency standards to be so high “unlikely?” That’s about as likely as the sun coming up tomorrow.

[@JD-yx7be]

chargers need to become more reliable and not require any apps to download

[@tesla_tap]

Like Tesla has offered for 10 years now. Competitors need to wake up!

[@JD-yx7be]

@@tesla_tap you still need an account to use a tesla charger, i should be able to charge with an ordinary credit card

[@JD-yx7be]

@@tesla_tap I think you still need an account for tesla

[@davidbeppler3032]

Why do I need a bank account to pay at the pump?! They should have dollar capture machines like the laundromat!

[@user-cw9em3mo3w]

Tesla rules!😂

[@-Thom-]

I wonder who funded the survey and how was it worded. These results fly in the face of people that I speak to who are fellow EV owners. Yes the infrastructure needs improving but look how far and quickly we have come in just ten years. 2034 will look completely different for the EV, EV charging landscape.

[@phillyphil1513]

btw as practice week for this Saturday's 92nd running of Lemans is now underway in France, i just saw the reveal of Ford's "Carbon Series" of their new Mustang GTD/GT3 racecar. whew, if that isn't a "$350,000 dollar temptation" for making one switch from BEV and BACK to Gas...? then i don't know what is...!!! i mean like plenty of others i got to see the silver GTD show car making the rounds in person at NYAS (and i thought it was just okay) but now seeing it painted in deep red against the contrast of the bright silver magnesium wheels with the carbon fiber hood showing through, as the kids say it "just hits different". 😎 wait are the kids still saying this...?

[@urbanstrencan]

Hopping that tariffs don't bring proper trade war between EU and China.

[@thedownwardmachine]

Interesting how the percentage of EV owners that will switch back lines up with the proportion of non Teslas on the road. Would be nice to see a break down by manufacturer. I have a Tesla and I’m never going back, but we recently rented a Bolt and charging was terrible.

[@billjohnson3022]

Possible but not likely as they are well liked universally by their owners.

[@adriangleprin6949]

No way

[@mikedx2706]

If ev owners are so unhappy, why are EVs taking over the new vehicle markets in Norway and Sweden? However, if you can't charge using the Tesla system, then I can understand why people don't want to keep their EVs. Only Tesla has made a serious effort to build a quality charging system for its cars. The others have deliberately failed to address the charging system problems created by third party providers.

[@rp9674]

5 1/2 years of EVs, never used a Tesla charger, very happy as is

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Maybe the survey was in Oklahoma or Montana.

[@rotaryenginepete]

@@jamesvandamme7786 it was global

[@omelborpon3159]

Sean you should have let Gary read the enti-EV "survey". Go ahead, make his day.

[@helicopterjohns]

Another satisfied Tesla owner. Will never go back to an ICE vehicle. The ones that are complaining both EV's from other manufactures.

[@MaticTheProto]

The only possible reason is the lack of chargers in the usa

[@rp9674]

Another possibility, BS survey

[@rotaryenginepete]

or just simple math

[@rp9674]

Extremely simple

[@GG-si7fw]

Was there a breakdown of the EV owner's surveyed? Sounds like non Tesla owners based on the complaint of charging experience.

[@georgepelton5645]

46% of EV owners want to go back to ICE? This must be a BS survey, sponsored by the dealer's association paper Automotive News. I have been driving electric since 2011. While I might buy a classic or vintage ICE car for fun, there is no way I would not use my EVs for daily driving and road trips. Past surveys like this have counted people that buy an ICE vehicle for a specific purpose, like long distance towing, and do not trade their EV daily driver as "going back to ICE."

[@gregorynp]

Not many could enter the car biz when they were powered my ICs. Now hundreds can. Did American manufacturers know this? Is it the end of the road for them and the Teamsters?

[@Bikerbug2020]

Alpine Sport Car - 6 seconds upto 100 km/h… LOL yup really sporty for $41,000 LOL

[@2009MigyFl]

I will never go back to a gas car. Cost? What I can think, maybe the Tesla owners are pissed, for paying so much money and now their car value going down badly, but that was for all EVs, not so much for people who bought an EV to a good price. The EV are still a little pricy but getting much better in range and faster charging. If the USA had a better vision about less pollution and getting better electric cars, we should be better than China. But that didn't happen because oil companies buying our politicians and some hard-headed people who don't understand it is for a better good for all.

[@ranig2848]

90% of EV that want to switch the gas are driving legacy EVs with horrible charge networks (eg Electrify America). I have yet to meet even 1 Tesla owner that even considered going back to gas. Not all EVs are created alike.

[@Derpy1969]

46% want to switch? Not Teslas.

[@justice4g]

it's why i got an EV with a generator in the back, I don't have to rely on public chargers

[@jamesvandamme7786]

Has anybody told you that you are a genius? Didn't think so.

[@happyatheists9361]

Who did the research 😂🤔

[@matthewmanzi9504]

This study is completely off from the other more reputable studies that show over 85 percent wouldn’t switch back

[@rotaryenginepete]

there are no reputable studies that confirm your bias

[@tomschuessler7723]

Be suspicious of the 45% wanting to go back to ICE. I love my 5yo M3 Tesla dual motor. Must be mostly other manufacturers.