EU Makes China EV Tariff Official; Used EVs Cheaper Than Used ICEs - Autoline Daily 3831

[@omelborpon3159]

Prices for used EVs dropping is a great thing for the EV industry. This will bring into the EV market price-sensitive people and people who just need cheap transportation. Once they buy their first EV, they ain't going back to ICE cars

[@pistonburner6448]

Wrong. Most people I know bought one EV and never again. Myself included. Wait until they see how horrible EVs are in practice, especially when their first battery control/charging module, battery cooling, or the battery itself breaks and they have to pay massive sums out of warranty...EVs will be buried.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

💯

[@jhelotes5627]

@@pistonburner6448 your negative experience is not shared by most EV buyers, especially not Tesla owners.

[@suserman7775]

@@pistonburner6448 You absolutely couldn't be more wrong. Most people that have EVs have a stronger preference for EV's in their next vehicle than ICE owners have about their next vehicle; and the DATA backs that up. Your "most people i know" opinion is idiotic.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@jhelotes5627 Wrong.

[@kevtheobald]

Europe can throw up tons of new tariffs, but if their businesses need to find ways to be more competitive or die. Those trade barriers only slow things down, but China will still eat them alive if they just continue their old ways. Kee😊p in mind, we have seen many new partnerships with Chinese builders with European companies crip up recently, so we may see these tariffs go away sooner than later.

[@suserman7775]

I would agree with you if you were talking about UNFAIR tariffs (as most are). But if a country subsidizes an industry, that's cheating in my book. You cheat; you pay. Businesses aren't supposed to compete with COUNTRIES.

[@kevtheobald]

@suserman7775 Is the Western nations putting incentives another way of tipping things in favor of their companies. It is a race to the bottom. Those at the top will thrive, those in the middle are on the highway to hell with the lower income. I can feel the heat on my poor azz.

[@ethanwelner1230]

@@kevtheobald Its funny then, since the average Chinese worker can't actually afford all those lovely BYD sedans They're dumping on Europe. The BYD Seagull is almost half the entire yearly wage of a BYD Wuxi factory worker and that things a golf cart. Are car sales just a sport to you? Like, is it GOOD that Chinese people suffer so that europeans can get cheap cars while european factory workers all lose their jobs? That feels kinda messed up.

[@kevtheobald]

@ethanwelner1230 I am not saying it is good anyone works for cheap, but we have been sold globalization and this is the reality. Race to bottom so the top can live the good life while we end life of the middle class. The have and have not world is where we are being pushed. We are numbers on a spreadsheet and when are value goes to zero, humanity will need a new system or things will likely get very ugly. Good thing the AI robots will help protect the rich.

[@stargazer3828]

Actually with or without tariffs the German carmakers sales in China have been on the decline according to a report from The Wall Street Journal. They cited less competitive vehicles from a tech standpoint and limited BEV offerings from legacy auto in a country that has hit 26% BEV market penetration. The only hope I see for legacy survival is to partner with the Chinese companies to jointly produce vehicles. VW saw the writing on the wall and quickly joined up with Xpeng.

[@snookmeister55]

I think all Legacy Auto is getting clobbered in China and some have closed shop there. It's important.

[@pistonburner6448]

How exactly are they "less competitive from a tech standpoint"? And how would China's unfair subsidization not affect them even more in the Chinese market? You're not making any sense, just a knee-jerk tribal defense response.

[@YSKWatch]

European brands leading the sales in china for more than 1 decade until the EV transition.

[@snookmeister55]

@@YSKWatch Yes, I think USA Legacy also did well in China as did Toyota but that's no longer the case.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@YSKWatch Yes, and without forced EVs China would have essentially zero market share in the West. China greased our politicians well, and blackmailed the manufacturers masterfully.

[@benchmark3332]

What they don't tell you: China already have 15% tariff on all vehicles coming from Europe into China.

[@davidmccarthy6061]

Probably because it doesn't matter to anyone except a handful of European brand CEOs?

[@NathanArnold-sf7gx]

This channel with its Chinese sponsor only selects news that makes CCP regime China look like the best place in the milky way universe! BYD fires, bud wheels falling off while driving, CCP death vans etc are ignored while false news lies are embraced by this channel like a mother & her new born!

[@dertythegrower]

What you dont say, they rely on 45-65 percent price drop from welfare... that is unfair trade practice

[@dertythegrower]

@@davidmccarthy6061 They use welfare, europeans use a tenth of what china makers do... learn economics101

[@MaticTheProto]

@@davidmccarthy6061bad take

[@Peizxcv]

I love how EU’s tariff is going to take effect July 4th. It’s telling the world “you know who is responsible for this”

[@tooltalk]

You mean the EU made the decision before the summer recess started, after having file a WTO complaint against China's unfair NEV regulation back in 2018?

[@adriancarey]

And who pays these tariffs? We do! All because legacy refused to catch up…

[@memrjohnno]

yep

[@davidgrisco1939]

And who pays for EV subsidies? All taxpayers do! It's protectionist policy. EV total ownership cost way too high. See Forbes cost calculation.

[@schorriemorrie_04]

Only the ones buying those cars pay for those tariffs, which is in stark contrast to the EV incentives, which you pay for through your taxes whether you buy an EV or not. So now you understand that, you are more concerned about those right?

[@adriancarey]

@@davidgrisco1939 you don’t mention the oil subsidies, which are staggeringly greater than anything put forward for EV ownership!

[@taylorc2542]

They required joint ventures that stole billions in technology and taxed 50% of profits. Give them a taste of their own medicine.

[@vancity2349]

Incentives??? Please do a show on the billions and billions of subsidies the oil and gas industry receives

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

Great news about used EV prices, now they are starting to trickle down to low budget buyers as expected, while new EVs improve rapidly in similar fashion to how the cellphone market behaved post iPhone disruption. That's the beauty of new tech replacing old tech, new tech often starts expensive, but then advances rapidly to overtake old tech on costs, features, performance, etc. What will ICE/Hybrid dependent legacies do when this happens to new EV prices next, and not just used ones? Tick tock.

[@johnbronco8678]

I'm calling BS on IIHS survey about ISA acceptability. Total BS. No way that many people are ok that more nanny-ware

[@kevtheobald]

For what it is worth, I set my vehicle to automatically not exceed 85 mph. It has been that way for a year, and it has caused no issues. I do believe there are plenty of people that when asked about safety will want to seem like a safe person, so they will answer yes to new safety features. As noted in the story, half said they wanted to be able to turn those safety features off. What people say in a survey and do in real life often do not match.

[@johnbronco8678]

@@kevtheobald Very valid point. That's basically where I was coming down. People say all kinds of things on surveys think the surveyor wants to hear. Real life is very different.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Android auto and a lot of other GPS services already do this if they detect you're speeding. It's actually a helpful feature, especially if you aren't familiar with the local speeds. If all it is is the speedometer changing color or something than it's probably something most people are already ok with or familiar with. The survey results would really depend on how they frame the question and how familiar the person is with such systems. Your car telling you that you're speeding isn't really any more nanny-ware than the road doing it with a sign.

[@jhelotes5627]

If one wants to avoid a speeding ticket, set your WAZE to report police ahead and set your speed limit indicator. Millions do it. I learned to never ignore a hidden or visible police warning.

[@AllanSustainabilityFan]

It sounds like the tariffs may end up with European legacies getting pushed out of the Chinese market if they decide to apply tariffs on those small engines. Allot of these legacies are dependent on regular/hybrid ICE vehicle for their Chinese sales, as their EV programs are behind, and thus they are neither competitive nor more than loss leader products in general. The price of legacies being slow on keeping up with EV trends I suppose, five years late to the game.

[@frankcoffey]

The ICE / EV price gap is going to get larger. ICE cars are doing nothing but getting more expensive and EV prices are falling and have a long way to go. Soon driving an ICE car will be a "display of wealth" because it shows you can not only afford the car but oil and gas for it.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

💯

[@suserman7775]

Nonsense. The only hope ICE has in the long term is the people hang on to myths and political stances. As soon as a person DRIVES an EV and has a friend that explains charging, it's over for ICE as having a majority. A few more years still remain before that happens, but it will. ICE is just generally inferior.

[@ethanwelner1230]

Probably the case, but that's not the driving factor behind used electrics getting cheaper at the moment. Initial purchase prices for EVs aren't plummeting in the same way. It's also not really something to cheer, at least not yet, since it steeply disincentivizes people from buying a new electrics and thus companies from producing them. Be pro electric all you want, I am, but try not to cheerlead bad news.

[@anydaynow01]

The oil for pure ICE cars is and will most likely always be relatively cheap, even for the good stuff (Red Line, Motul, Schaeffer’s, Amsoil), the fuel is another story. Supply and demand will swing in the direction of EVs, especially in Europe as they mandate synth fuels. You're correct in saying that owning an ICE vehicle will be a lot like owning a horse these days, expensive.

[@wj9494]

100% of BEV’s will need a battery replacement. Insurance for me was more than my car payment. These costs are significant.

[@metricstormtrooper]

These tarrifs just show european car makers hevent taken EVs seriously and they cant compete, not because of anything the Chinese have done, but what they have failed to do.

[@Thunderbuck]

I'll tell you why some of us continue to be skeptical of hydrogen: 1) Batteries are improving steadily and any advantage hydrogen may have been seen to have is narrowing almost by the day and 2) where are we going to get it? Electrolyzing water for hydrogen burns away 70% of your energy (more, depending on how you transport/store/dispense it). "Get it from natural gas", you might say, except that doing this actually has higher carbon output than JUST BURNING THE GAS. We'll get way more traction just converting diesels to run on CNG (a quick, inexpensive conversion).

[@davidmenasco5743]

"Hype" - a great name for a hydrogen powered enterprise.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

If the govt tries to mandate speed limits and controls they will find it will cause a huge black market in disabling that. This is similar to the aftermarket engine chip software reprogramming devices that give your ICE car more power and torque than the original factory settings.

[@daves1646]

When speed control systems are given CONTROL over my selected speed, either the blasted thing is fully autonomous and does all the driving or it’s somebody else’s car. I will NOT purchase a mandate on wheels. In fact, I think I’d pay to replace the battery on my current EV before I’d purchase a vehicle that is allowed to MANDATE my travel speed or make it ridiculously hard to override. And I generally do NOT go more than 3 mph over the posted speed limits. The NHTSA and IIHS can to to some hot place before I’ll purchase a vehicle I do not have EASY and FULL control of, unless it is 100% autonomous.

[@ultrastoat3298]

Unfortunately it would probably come as an over the air update on your current EV.

[@daves1646]

@@ultrastoat3298If it’s not part of the ‘as sold’ content, regulatory authorities have no power to add functionality. Correct existing functionality to make it compliant with time-of-sale regs -yes, but add more functions, nope. And worst-case, VW has yet to master OTAs for important s/w improvements or drivetrain control software so far, so it’d require a dealer install trip.

[@dwguo9924]

July 4th? Independence Day?😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@protagonist9716]

Yes they showing they puppets of United snakes

[@shavaughndavidson2257]

so let me get this EVs had bad resale value but also somehow used ice cars used to cost less than the used evs

[@pistonburner6448]

Yes. EVs are incredibly expensive and used to not have enough supply for demand so used prices stayed ridiculously high -> but then used ones have dropped massively in value as the supply has overtaken demand. Affordable ICE cars have been taxed and just politically blocked into oblivion with manufacturers simply no longer offering cheap ICE cars (a certain huge nation blackmailed them and politicians into ceasing to offer affordable ICEs) -> ICE prices have skyrocketed as low-cost ones are no longer on offer. Key thing you missed is that they're comparing what ICE cars *_used to cost_* to what ICE cars cost *_nowadays._*

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@pistonburner6448 EVs are cheaper than fossil monsters. You just spread FUD like all mainstream media.

[@suserman7775]

Yes because one parameter is basically a percent and the other is a comparison of fixed values. The graph itself was stupid. A 150k Taycan with 30 percent resale value is still valued at 45k; and that's more money than a used ICE Camry. lol. Apples to Oranges.

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@suserman7775 Not much more than the Camry.

[@suserman7775]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 OH really? A 3 year old Camry is close to 45k? Car salesmen must love you.

[@frankcoffey]

When there is a tariff what is it a percentage of? Is it MSRP, wholesale dealer cost, or what the car actually sells for?

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

It is the price of the manufacturer + transport + transport insurance to the destination port. Then tariffs - then additional EU or US tariff, then VAT then sales. In the US its sales then VAT.

[@suserman7775]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 What is "price of the manufacturer"?

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@suserman7775 This is the amount of money which the manufacturer wants for selling the car to his dealer or importer in the other country.

[@dertythegrower]

byd and xpeng relies on arificial low prices from state welfare.. way more than tesla gets!

[@gzcwnk]

h2 is DOA...

[@typxxilps]

I like this advertising block at the end - just to let you know that it makes sense . Watched it - as a german viewer cause I found that Michigan ad interesting.

[@georgepelton5645]

Ask Europeans how they like their mandatory speed limit warning, which they must manually turn off for every drive. Or Tesla owners, how they like their cars thinking the speed limit is 25 mph in a 40 zone, or 35 mph on a 70 mph Interstate highway. I sure hope this doesn't become mandatory in the US.

[@leifandersen2756]

If people won’t buy EVs ,the company will be hit hard so why produce more EVs when there are no demand for them !Crazy!

[@2cartalkers]

Why do I not believe that drivers want speed limiters? What if drivers take a crow bar to it?

[@realazduffman]

The 50% who are happy with speed limiters are the same ones who wore masks alone in their cars 4 years ago.

[@2cartalkers]

@@realazduffman Muwahahahaha!

[@jamesvandamme7786]

So do you get an insurance break with them? Yeah I know I'm being silly

[@markokrasinski8033]

So used EV's went from 42k to 29k??? Where's the bottom? Why buy?

[@JD-yx7be]

cheaper to own than a used gas vehicle

[@jameswoffinden9215]

Aren’t NEVs those golf cart ir otherwise small-looking electric vehicles that are limited to 35 mile per hour roads in America?

[@jamesvandamme7786]

No, it covers a wide range of vehicles. Seldom do we see it broken out.

[@bluezcluez315]

In the US, NEV has been used for ‘neighborhood electric vehicle’ in the past. In China, NEV is ‘new energy vehicle’ and includes BEV and PHEV (maybe hydrogen fuel cell too)

[@jameswoffinden9215]

@@bluezcluez315 Thanks for the explanation. I don’t know why people use so many abbreviations.

[@bluezcluez315]

@@jameswoffinden9215 The automotive world could write its own dictionary. Ford even has its own internal searchable directory for acronyms.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

Basically the EU is saying "Your Chinese cars aren't as ludicrously priced as the cars we make locally....How dare you?" All this is going to do is cause the ouster of auto workers replacing them with robots... in order to get prices down even further to get around the price increase of the tariffs. Then what is the EU going to do when the rest of the world has automated its assembly lines completely and their quality is near perfect? Are they going to artificially keep people working inside auto plants by slamming on more and more tariffs? Everyone will abandon the EU brands for the better quality and they will find a way around the tariffs. TARRIFS NEVER WORK FOR LONG IN A LINKED TRADE SYSTEM...never!

[@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl]

Bullshit

[@nickmcconnell1291]

@@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl ⏳ will tell.

[@MaticTheProto]

Dude you know so little about the situation it’s laughable

[@RayNLA]

China got the world shook! Remember when everyone laughed at them?

[@bobbbobb4663]

You mean when Adrian laughed at BYD! "Have you seen their cars?"!

[@ethanwelner1230]

Not really. China has been decimating and hollowing out the industrial sectors of every other country on earth for like 30 years straight. Nations have finally just woken up to the idea that you can't offshore labor to china forever since eventually no one has jobs anymore.

[@RayNLA]

@@bobbbobb4663 Yes I have!!! I have they are all incredible. BYD builds buses here in LA and has manufacturing on every continent except Antarctica!

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@bobbbobb4663 Ten years ago, they sucked. And I remember when Japanese cars sucked. I know, I had 3 of them. And I remember when Korean cars sucked; that was much more recent, before they started building decent EVs.

[@americannumber2]

@@jamesvandamme7786 same feeling. Korean car is good. I guess Chinese car will be good too

[@Rhotz-ix8ll]

How does Mary Barra still still have a job??

[@12345682900]

...because GM still makes money. Sadly, without a complete & total overhaul of the company's culture, this is about as lucrative as they can be. Equally sad, is that while everyone at the top continues to enjoy healthy salaries & compensation packages, no one will "rock the boat." Bottom line: Will GM, as we know it, exist 75 years from now? A: Possibly not. Will the VW group, Stellantis or Toyota? A: Yes.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

She does buy backs and increases the dividends to shareholders. It's a short term boost to the stocks and a sugar high that's tough for some short term investors to walk away from and makes her popular.

[@suserman7775]

She Ducks Sicks.

[@BrunoHeggli-zp3nl]

Because shes is amazing!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

@@suserman7775 dang... A bit harsh

[@forgotten_world]

Hei Norge 😂 1:30

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

The EU basically said that Tesla produces 21% more expensive in Germany than in China. Both produce identical vehicles. I know. I have both. The result? Germany will be shut down and production will be moved to China. Well done EU. Very well done!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

Tesla won't abandon Germany. It will likely expand and build the M3 there as well.

[@suserman7775]

Why would "Germany be shut down"?

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@suserman7775 Tesla Germany will shut down because they produce the same products 21% more expensive according to the EU commission. Elon will not stand for such inefficiencies.

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@wolfgangpreier9160 Oh noes babysmurf9000 closing his German furnace!

[@wolfgangpreier9160]

@@BTC_Minarchist The 3 will not be produced in Grünheide. Maybe the Model 2/Q/T whatever it is named. And not even that if the EU keeps demanding 21%. That means Grünheide must cut their costs 21% or produce twice more to keep up with the prices of Shanghai.

[@ФёдорЛукин-у1о]

No one in his right mind will buy a second hand car with an Ultium battery

[@snookmeister55]

The name Ultium sounds good though when Mary says it.

[@JD-yx7be]

If the price is good i don't see why not

[@robert5008]

Personally if I was China, I would put a stop sale on all EU car companies. Let's see how long the tariffs last.

[@ethanwelner1230]

It would be good for the entire world if China just banned imports from the rest of the world and the rest of the world did so back. Chinas race to the bottom for worker value is just going to harm everyone everywhere, including in China.

[@temur72]

and hit Italian and French luxury goods

[@wenzhang8879]

it is a double lose game

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

​@@ethanwelner1230😂😂😂 This is why china keeps developing

[@figgbx112]

This will harm free trade and lead to a double loss. Tariffs on luxury goods and alcohol should be raised.

[@grahamcastle8189]

Average is a very poor measure of statistical variance, it highly influenced by extreme values at either end of the data range. To compare average prices of second hand cars by average is therefore meaningless. Very disappointed to see you repeating and spreading EV FUD.

[@RTVSk]

Stupid step

[@mawhim]

Tariffs. What an absolute mockery of a free market economy. EU and US. Whatch this escalate.

[@MaticTheProto]

Ask china to remove their tariffs

[@tangfelix7091]

China has been doing that for years. Oh how the tables have turned

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

​@@MaticTheProto source

[@rp9674]

Yes, speed limiting, police don't stop people anymore Limit to 85mph with 10 sec of 90mph hard limit.

[@suserman7775]

Firstly, enforcing laws about not blocking the Left lane is what Police should worry about. Secondly, you're a troll and can rot in hell.

[@mrjim1973]

I'm so tired of China

[@rjv2395]

how many buts can you say in one show? you need to listen to your own commentary a little more

[@joeychan8886]

WTO looks like a joke🎉

[@niftynige]

China can’t build a good ICE, so EV is a simple way for them to enter the market. However, the product will always be mediocre compared to competitors operating in a real market driven economy.

[@davidmenasco5743]

Ok, we can replace the word China here with any country that is home to a legacy auto brand, and then switch ICE for EV. It will be true in general, but especially so for US and European automakers.

[@JonySmith-bb4gx]

Who decided that

[@figgbx112]

Many things are not made, but intellectual property rights and patents.

[@nickmcconnell1291]

GM does not want to make a lot of EVs. The way they make them guarantees they lose money on all of them. Unless something changes with the way they make them (ahem... dump the UAW and fully automate) GM can't ramp up EVs above a certain point.

[@miamimilk]

Some people would love to dump the American workforce. They make them seem evil by using terms like Socialist UAW.

[@Terny228]

Tariff: hey consumer no cheap quality Chinese cars for you! ha ha.

[@civichx24]

Thank God, slightly used EVs are like new cars!

[@jamesvandamme7786]

@@civichx24 Try to find one though!

[@thabzmad7265]

Apparently you are in for a shocker, these will still come cheaper than European/Legacy car maker EVs even with 100% tariffs as they haven't yet cracked the latest low production cost craze!

[@badboy250984]

@@thabzmad7265EU brands still rely on China to supplied parts and tesla/bmw build their ev in china and bring them back in eu will be impacted as well. Fairly sure the EU brands aren’t too happy with new tariff either lol.

[@anthonyxuereb792]

The rich don't want you to enjoy them, they actually envy you to see you owning a good cheap Chinese car. That's how evil the rich and powerful are.

[@allenmyers8568]

Does the decrease in the sales price of used EV's actually include dealers providing the tax incentive up-front as is being done with new EV's?

[@suserman7775]

That survey was ridiculous. It was for used EV's from 1 to 5 years old. But many models are only entering their 5th year now. Skewed results.

[@JT_771]

Solid boon for the used EV market (for the buyer, lol). People should hop on those cheaper cars.

[@pistonburner6448]

No, they shouldn't as that raises their tax bill by unprecedented amounts and they'll go bankrupt once one of the incredibly many expensive and fragile EV parts breaks out of warranty.

[@JT_771]

@@pistonburner6448 haha ... keep telling yourself stuff like that.

[@pistonburner6448]

@@JT_771 If you want to try to disprove something I wrote then you must specify what you think is incorrect. That's how debate works, not by: "Nuh-uh!". Until you do that my points stand. If you prove to be capable of basic debate and ask further, I can back up everything with solid and detailed argumentation.

[@BTC_Minarchist]

💯

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@pistonburner6448I think he disagrees with all you wrote... 🤷 In which case, no need to specify.

[@charlesd9949]

NIO is a BEAST, the EU & America should learn from NIO, LI AUTO, BYD, XPENG and other Chinese EV auto brands.

[@billbarr7591]

The madness continues.... if you can't beat them ban them with tariffs! Problem is China will tariff luxury European cars and the tariffs will apply to cars imported by EU companies like BMW, Renault, Peugeot and Mercedes-Benz. This will impact the move to electrification in Europe and damage competition ensuring Chinese buyers get the best technology for years to come.

[@tangfelix7091]

Those who are calling foul play against China. Remeber EU did the samething on Japanese car back in the 90s. Look at his well that turned out for everyone.

[@suserman7775]

Please don't pronounce "Ultium" as if it were spelled "Alltium". Cringe.

[@bobbbobb4663]

Tesla Headline News: No pay, no stay! "Material revenue generation" for Supervised Taxis years away! Adrian admits Mary is on the right track with Cruise!

[@Harrythehun]

"Maybe there is no actual place called hell. Maybe hell is just having to listen to our grandparents breathe through their noses when they're eating sandwiches."

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@Harrythehun Submit your resume! Opening soon for new Tesla leadership!

[@BTC_Minarchist]

​@@Harrythehun😂 "sandwiches" got me.

[@russh6414]

According to the latest CSS videos, Tesla is dead last in Autonomous development --Insert fanboy hype here

[@bobbbobb4663]

@@russh6414 But babysmurf9000 has a big P.O. with Nvidia and the deliveries are scheduled this year! Oh noes...the trucks are going to xAI and Xitter! Roadster!