Project Leaf: Everything I HATE About My Used Electric Car

[@StephenVermeulen]

I'm in Calgary Canada, I bought a used 2015 (24kWh battery) LEAF last year. Below about -20C the range really is cut in half, but for our city use the 60-70km range at low temperatures is still good enough for us. We still prefer the LEAF over our Honda FIT at low temperatures because you just turn it on and go - no warm up needed. Charging at home is way cheaper than buying gas (petrol) (even in Alberta where our gas prices are a half of what you pay in the UK), I've been saving $200-300/month over gas! In the summer my charging will be essentially free from my solar panels too.

[@TheStriker0525]

a EV makes sense for city driving but that's it.

[@smackeralcafe]

@@TheStriker0525 I'm in Calgary, Canada too. My 2018 (40kWh battery) Leaf is a pleasure to drive on the highway. Pro Pilot assist makes the journey relaxing and here in oil and gas rich Alberta there are more and more Level 3 fast charging stations. One highway Fast Charger in Innisfail, Alberta is fully solar powered and free to use. Got to love it.

[@hyrise76]

@@TheStriker0525 depends really on where you are. I don't live in the city but I do enjoy the Chevy Bolt, I never charge it anywhere else than home tho (and I live in Canada, so I do have rough winters)

[@AlokSaldanha137]

@@TheStriker0525 Works well in suburbs also. Most people (obviously not all) live in cities and suburbs.

[@maryannrondinella5680]

I went on a business trip to Juneau, Alaska in the middle of winter a few years ago and was surprised to see a number of LEAFs parked outside private homes. Juneau is a small city so the owners have made do.

[@bytemark6508]

Nissan Leaf 2012 doesn't have a full regen like the modern EV, you still need to break to stop the car. It's with the 2014 that they increased the regen power.

[@Beorn.]

It wasn't a Nissan dealer but a dealer did say to me that long runs on motorways kill ev's because in part your not braking for long distances so regen doesn't come in to it.

[@bytemark6508]

@@Beorn. It's the air resistance at higher speeds, effectively working against the motor, that will consume more energy because it has to push harder. Regen has nothing to do with it. In fact, when you need to slow down on highway, you get more energy back at a higher speed. This thing is also true for all cars, but the gasoline engine is more efficient at higher speeds, so you actually consume less at 60mph than at 20. The electric motor has a more constant pull at all speeds, you actually get all the torque from 0 (which is not the case with the ICE), so the air resistance becomes more obvious. That is why the aerodynamic shape of the EV is so important, it will diminish the wind resistance as much as possible.

[@kcaa3953]

@@bytemark6508 Um, no. The gas engine is more efficient at specific RPMs and at nearly full throttle. It's because the transmission will be in a higher gear at high speeds that the mileage is better, not how the engine works.

[@kcaa3953]

@@Beorn. Wind resistance is a square law function. That means that all the other forces slowing down the vehicle - tire drag, drive train drag, engine drag, etc are pretty much linear with speed. But wind resistance increases with the square of the speed.

[@SDGreg]

@@Beorn.It really has several variables that the dealer apparently isn't accounting for. For example a 2013 Nissan Leaf will consume at 60 mph 362 (Wh/mi). A 2014 Tesla Model S is 277 (Wh/Mi) at 60 mph. The Model S is almost 25% more efficient at motorway speeds.

[@stuartvasepuru1423]

Thanks for another realistic review, Rory. Those negatives are to be expected from an older EV, but if you need a small daily runabout as a 2nd car & can charge it at home, a 2nd hand Leaf is ideal, a more affordable way to own an electric car. The overpriced MOT is wrong, but to be expected, as car dealers rely on their servicing business for revenue. That's going to decline sharply as EV uptake increases, so they're having a "Kodak moment" right now.

[@BrBill]

Yeah, that draw on the old heater is awful. After a while I got one of those plug-in seat heaters for my 2011 Leaf. It helped to use that instead, but it broke after a couple winters. Then the next 5 years I've mostly worked at home.

[@reiniernn9071]

@@BrBill My old fashioned leaf (2013) had build in seat heaters and steering wheel heater. Only heating the whole car before leaving home (Yes I could charge at home with 240 volt). Maybe because my 2013 model had only one level of gadgets....all. The different levels came later in that year. I sold the leaf in 2021 ...using that car without failures and without maintenance except changing tyres after the same amount of miles as any ICE car could use theit tyres. I admit that the leaf was for "short distances". For longer I uesed until 2019 a hybrid, after that another ev with 400+km range. With that longrange EV (KonaE64) I could manage daytrips up to 1200 km. And when reading some of the comments about "affording ev's"...I saved by using EV's in those 9 years about 60000 euro in comparing driving the same distances with comparable (in size ) ICE cars....calculating with new ICE cars , not with used cars. It would be better if they taught at all schools (secundary) the subject "cost and costprice". A lot of people would make other decisions when they understand this part of economical schooling. In my country this knowledge is lacking with the majority of people .

[@BrBill]

@@reiniernn9071 Nailed it. I also used to heat the interior with my L2 charger too. It helped make trips a lot more comfortable without affecting range. I have saved SO much money with this car, which admittedly cost a lot of money in 2011 (even after tax rebate). In 11 years, it's absolutely paid off. On average, I spent less than US$200 on maintenance every year (except for tires, which have been replaced once and are due again). No oil costs, no fuel costs, charged at home for practically nothing. I admit that EVs aren't for every situation but it sure has been great for me.

[@zampa4ever]

@@BrBill on sale in Aldi for £10 at the moment

[@zampa4ever]

With regards MOT cost. I actually find it hard to find a place the does them at full price and have never paid the full amount. This year I paid £27.50 at Halfords.

[@kcaa3953]

We bought a used 2011 Leaf for $7k two years ago. We live in Michigan, which has weather along the lines of Sweden. Yes, the range in winter takes a hit. We help that by heating the car before we go somewhere, and gain a bit more range by charging it a bit more just before we leave (warms up the battery pack a bit). We largely keep it in the unheated (but warmer than outside) garage in the winter too. But we use it pretty much every day. It's the only car in the house (four adult drivers and four and a half motor vehicles) that gets used every single day. The Ford Ranger pickup truck gets used about once a week. Our Subaru Outback gets used for longer-range trips. Our old beater Mazda gets used as a backup for the Leaf and Outback. BTW, the "half" is a Niu electric scooter, which gets used as much as the Leaf in the warmer months. The regen braking thing is down to how you brake. If you brake hard, you use regen *and* the brakes. If you brake earlier and lighter, you use almost all regen. All the cost-to-charge stuff depends entirely on your electric company - ours is from 1am to 4am cheap power, or from our house solar. 'Your appliances during the day' has really nothing to do with the car charging. The expressway range drop is a real issue, but it's not too hard to avoid given the short range. And we plug it in every night. We like the car a lot - it's terrific for our in-town use, and most of our trips are in-town. It's useless for going more than 20 miles away from home, but we don't need it for that.

[@djgate]

You can also blip the drive selector twice for "low" which gives max regen when lifting off the go pedal. Its preferable to use this low position at all times as its not a low gear but just a means to obtain max regen which enables one pedal driving.

[@stephengnb]

I was thinking, he probably could have mentioned the brakes were likely worn down by the previous owner.

[@tomkendall1177]

I have been watching your videos and got a 2015 24kwh Leaf for much the same reasons as you but I’ve mitigated a lot of those concerns. I’m still on 11 bars battery health and even in winter 60-70 miles is fine. I’ve also got Tekna spec so even in cold weather I’m fine to turn off the heat and just use heated seats/steering wheel. Like you I just use it for local admin, school run, and I work from home. And like you, I run another car (2010 Jaguar XJ) which is perfect for longer journeys and very refined. By saving over £200 p/month on diesel costs, the leaf effectively pays for the Jag! All in all a great car and yes the first positive step in weaning ourselves off fossil fuels for a brighter future :)

[@trevorcharlesthornett8883]

Heated seats and steering wheel use more battery than the heater! So what heats the seats and steering wheel? I guess it must be from the exhaust ROFLOL

[@audriusa5368]

UK here. Bought Nissan Leaf 2021 40 kw month ago. Swapped from Honda Jazz -annoyed over 2 years such underpowered car, 40-50 mpg tho. Right point about electricity, I recently pay 21p, going up next week up to 28p, crazy. Still 2x cheaper for me. But boi... that quietness, comfort, instant heat in cold... and power! In my daily commute in my hilly town it's awesome! I guess its depend on situation of driver. I charge 2 times per week at home without driveway, some cover on wire via pavement overnight. I tell you - aside of some slight range anxiety and scary roaring electricity prices, its my best drive in my life! I never ever go back to combustion engine.

[@desimmonds]

This video is completely spot on. Love and hate my leaf. One thing I’ve noticed from your videos on the Leaf that potential buyers might want to mull upon is that if you live anywhere that has hills your range is vaporised even further. I notice you drive in very flat surrounds and whilst I am not commuting to Everest base camp every day, the hills half my range. I have a 35 mile round trip up and down Devonshire hills to work and should have a 70 mile range in summer and a 60 mile range in winter. I get back home with around 15 miles of range left. I drive no faster than 40mph and use regen whenever I can. It means that in winter I simply can’t heat the windshield and have drive with the windows open to clear the condensation (whilst dressed in arctic furs and picking stalactites off the dash!). Great car, love it but also drives me potty. Great appraisal on the leaf mind, well done!

[@hunchanchoc8418]

40mph and no heater? I might as well use my 50cc scooter !

[@northernowl7087]

Thanks for doing your bit for the world but in your coal.fired car .think I'm gonna keep my diesil car and stay warm 🤭🤭

[@alistairjmclark9866]

And this is progress ! !

[@Ilander86]

The newer generation of LEAF is better at all these things, but Rory's scope is "cheap entry point," so he's limited to older models. Would I pick a 2012 LEAF over a 2018? No, probably not, personally. My '20 has a heat pump which is way more efficient in Winter for North America, by the way, I would never be roaming about at -15°C without the heater turned on to at least a cabin temp of *positive* 15° C!

[@davidpotter6564]

I live in Gloucestershire and can confirm hills absolutely hammer it, there's one round here that can knock three bars off the battery in one go.

[@pvautoskodaplus2941]

It´s maybe weird to say, but your reviews are always so "intelligent". You always share very valid points of view, think about it realistically but also you don´t suck the fun out of it, quite the opposite. I really do love your videos. Thanks!

[@philm652]

I have a 2015 leaf, a bit better condition than this one. I too love love love it but this is by far the best real review of it. It makes a great 2nd car. I did a 60 mile commute when the fuel and electricity prices were normal and the car paid for itself in 2 years so i see it as a free car (tainted opinion, but true)

[@Mrbfgray]

But GAUD it's hard to look at. Not even Detroit could dream up something so hideous.

[@philm652]

@@Mrbfgray I can't disagree. I did keep my head down in it for a while at first

[@Mrbfgray]

@@philm652 Hahaha. I respect that and the utilitarian economy aspects, plus the sense of humor like driving a Chrysler PT Cruiser. Somehow can't see picking up a hot date for a fancy diner in one tho.

[@Mattisttam]

My 2015 volt gets me 45km in the winter and 65-70km in the summer. I’ve got 78000km on it and have experienced very little battery degradation, around 3%. Buying a used EV is a great option for those doing low distances for daily driving within a city. Anything over 50 mph (80Km/h) it eats the range up. Once you understand the vehicle you can optimize your driving a little. I have yet to go to a full EV but I’m feeling more confident as time passes and range improves on newer models. Pricing is getting better too. Thanks for these reviews on your leaf! Very informative.

[@wraith8323]

When a review of a Leaf is equally engaging as an Aventador: Rory Effect 👍👍👍

[@forferdeilig]

Just to clarify why electric cars are said to be bad on the motorway, the power required to overcome aerodynamic drag goes up with the cube of the velocity, so twice as fast requires 8x the power, this is obviously true for ICE and EV, but this is why the range suffers so badly.

[@Beorn.]

In my ice car I set my adaptive cruise at 60mph and to be honest I find that to be a good speed. Not many issues in doing that as there are plenty of other drivers doing the same and it's nicer than doing 70 in the other lanes where there's always someone wanting you to get out the way so they can star trek it down the road. So if when I buy an ev that wont bother me.

[@TL-xw6fh]

The optimum max speed is around 100 kph, partly because of resistance (air, road, etc) and inefficiency of the electric motor at high speed since there are no gears. Some manufacturers are looking at implementing gear reduction system to make the motors more efficient at higher speeds.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

4x times the power*

[@kalleguld]

It only goes up with the square of velocity. Still very significant.

[@Beorn.]

The coefficient of drag does play a part, some ev's are more efficient than others wouldn't you agree?

[@IliaChakarovGaming]

Let's not forget that this battery is nearly 10 years old, and depending on how many cells you have lost can determine the numbers you have provided us. My 2014 leaf with one cell lost can do around 77 miles on a full charge (with eco mode on) , if i was to turn heating on I only loose around 3 miles of range no matter what percentage I am on

[@suad01]

Chevy volts are as old as the first gen leaf.

[@mikaelangeloh2316]

You’re not losing cells. If you did that, your battery wouldn’t function. You losing bars on the graph. In a way the capacity of your battery shrinks as it gets older.

[@Kefford666]

I just want to say, it’s refreshing to hear you using numbers that are realistic for every day people. £5000 for a car is a lot of money and having to pay £140 for the brakes is a decent sized bill for regular maintenance. Recently I had to have a timing belt change and it put me in debt! So many times on KZbin you’ll see people recommending cars that cost £30k or more without batting an eyelid. Considering you’re only supposed to spend 10-15% of your income on a car that means the average viewer would be earning around £200,000 a year? It just leaves you thinking where you went wrong in life if that’s how everyone else is living. Thanks for keeping it real 🙏🏻

[@bobmac004]

Not quite real. At 9:13 he says both rear brakes (left and right) are 100% worn and require immediate attention. According to the MOT advisories it says ''Nearside Rear Brake pad(s) wearing thin (1.1.13 (a) (ii)) so slightly misleading

[@simonmurfin1910]

I’m with you. We have an i3 for all local trips (about 120/130 mile range in summer) and a Q7 for long range, family holiday style trips. The i3 might be over 4 years old but it’s only done 15k miles but some days it can be used 4-6 times a day for school, hobbies etc Great combination and saves a lot of money and fuel

[@dickriggles942]

You are the average electric car fanboy. This post sums them up in a nutshell.

[@csabraxas]

@@dickriggles942 When its petrol its called enthusiast but electric is fanboy? why? Electric cars are awesome, that doesn't take away anything from petrol.

[@dickriggles942]

@@csabraxas Not really....

[@faisalleeds]

This is pretty much the best use case for an electric car. For a lot of people a single electric car in the household will not cut it. That is why a diesel or hybrid is a better solution and usually works out cheaper. I hope we get alternative fuels in the near future as electric is not the solution for everyone and petrol/diesel needs to be phased out eventually.

[@wltdo6930]

That’s fine if you were planning to have two cars anyway, but not for those who would only have one car otherwise

[@markdriedger9464]

We just purchased a 2014 Leaf about a month ago here in Toronto. I agree 100% with all the points made here! It's a GREAT 2nd car for around town, but I'm very happy to have a VW Tiguan for the longer trips with the family.

[@edvoon]

The LEAF, being one of the very first mass-market EVs, does have many flaws - most of which is all related to its sub-standard battery pack which Nissan has made next to no effort to address. Other than that, it loses almost nothing to any other modern EV. But, these flaws are precisely what make them such good value as used cars, especially if you fall into the lucky category of being a 2-car family, and has off-street parking and charging. I replaced my 2nd car with a used LEAF to do the local run-about trips, and find that we use it for 90% of our driving with only the occasional long trip for which we require the petrol car. Also with a combination of free charging at shopping centres, roadside kiosks and workplace charging, I had to charge it myself about once or twice a month only - usually when I was unlucky enough not to get a spot at the shopping centre. Good news though, a NZ company EVs Enhanced is about to introduce a drop-in 40kWh battery pack with LFP chemistry and temperature control. LFP batteries have twice the lifetime of the LMO (ZE0 & AZE0) or NMC (ZE1) batteries used in existing LEAFs, and temperature control means that you can actually fast charge a LEAF multiple times a day, making longer trips finally possible. LFP is less efficient at lower temperatures though so bear that in mind and pre-condition your LEAF before driving. But it could be a long wait as they are a small company and may have difficulty meeting the demand of NZ and Australian LEAF owners, let alone the rest of the world. Hopefully they can license their technology to US and UK partners to build their own. Brake wear is highly dependent on the user, so the previous owner of your LEAF might have been a heavy user of the brakes (some drivers will learn to look ahead and use regen to stop, while others refuse to do so and drive it like a regular car) - also because early ZE0 LEAFs don't have B-Mode, which means that the regen isn't as powerful. Later LEAF generations have B-Mode and one-pedal driving which should reduce brake wear significantly. Tesla drivers (who have stronger regen) have often reported that their brake discs actually got rusty as it was used so infrequently. So you can't really generalise the brake wear of ALL EVs based on an older generation model.

[@BrBill]

Awesome news. Thanks for the info!

[@Ilander86]

Nissan *did* update the battery a few times, and the modern models have substantially better cells than the first ones did. BUT, while Nissan did work on the pack, they held onto the dogma of "no external cooling" way too hard. It doesn't make a ton of sense other than that they didn't want to invest the engineering $$$ to fix.

[@mondotv4216]

@@Ilander86 I think you meant “no active cooling”. The only cooling the pack has is radiated external cooling, whereas most mdern EVs have liquid cooled batteries.

[@tomwallen7271]

Your comment really highlights my frustration with EV haters. A low-range EV is sufficient for 90-100% of your real auto usage. Even if you only get 100 mile range, that's more than enough for a full days errands and back home again. I can't wait to pitch my petrol car for an EV and just rent a car for those ultra long trips (that are equally ultra rare).

[@djgate]

Regarding your comment that early cars didn't have B-Mode ability. I bought a 2012 one of the last out of Japan before UK production, and found by selecting drive twice with the selector you can have increased regen and one pedal driving. Believe it was indicated as L but the result was increased regen not a low gear. Presently running a BMW i3 and hardly ever touch the brake since regen is so strong. The i3 also has the ability to coast keeping the accelerator pedal in a position between adding power and backing off into regen adding to overall efficiency. This ability is shown by an indicator .

[@garethsuddes5087]

Agree with everything in this vid. I have a 2015 white Leaf just like this and as the second car for running around town it's been great. No regrets after 5 years of ownership. Do I wish it had more range, sure, but for what we need it to do it's been flawless

[@ErikTheVikingMechanic]

Very informative thank you. I thought of selling my old TDI PD and putting money towards something newer, but now with fuel cost as nearly £2pL I'll throw some chip oil in the tank and there we go.

[@bellahager6294]

As someone who has a 2013 Nissan Leaf with a little less range than yours, it’s a really great city car to have. As a high school student I rarely have issues of running out of charge and the only time I’ve needed to use a gas car is when it’s extremely cold. I think it’s a great investment for a first car/car to learn to drive in!

[@Gusfezio]

gotta take in account that this is a 12 y/o project and its basically the first electric car mass produced. and it's still not that bad. so the future is brigther tha some of you may think

[@don-qb4xb]

The emissions test is a relatively small part of the MOT test. The test for class four vehicles has a standard fee. So if you test a diesel car that fails its fast pass test and then have to do the longer test you cannot then go to the customer and ask for more money because its taken longer. Same for the BET spark ignition test. Just as testing a twenty year old French rot box can take you an hour or more but a four year old car is going to be easier. The fee is the same regardless. The garage also has to still cover all its normal costs and indeed even pay the person who makes sure your car is safe to be on the road.

[@utube1818]

Always good to get on opinion for the opposite side of the fence.

[@alanvallis4183]

Thats why range extender hybrids are a good compromise. Run on the battery around town and then use the range extender for longer trips. I bought a Chevrolet Volt just for this purpose use the 80 km range for short trips and cheap to charge overnight then on longer trips when the battery runs out the range extender kicks in.

[@LcFan96]

thing with the brakes is true. if youre not using your brakes, they start to rust and that builds up. once youre past a certain degree of rust, you cant get it off with braking anymore and need to replace discs and pads.

[@brianfeely9239]

It’s somehow comforting to know it’s not just in Ireland that main dealers are a borderline criminal enterprise

[@therealbrucec]

I have a 2011 Nissan Leaf - everything Rory says is spot-on, especially the range aspects

[@hojnikb]

I think you should invest into a bigger used battery retrofit. There are specialized shops in the UK, that deal in that sort of thing. As far as the original leaf goes, there are 30, 40 and 62kWh options. With degradation your pack likely has, you could gain 3-4x of range you currently have by swapping over to the biggest pack. Could also be an idea for a sponsored video for one of the shops that do that :D

[@kajzwinkels9795]

Another (maybe better) option is a range extender. 60miles on a charge is not bad for a 10 year old battery and with a range extender you also alleviate some of the load of the old battery with will increase its effective capacity. Add the capacity of the extender itself to that and you’ll have a very capable car again

[@hojnikb]

@@kajzwinkels9795 those are half assed options really. Might as well have a purely gasoline car at that point.

[@BrBill]

@@hojnikb Wow, not a reasonable conclusion to these suggestions at all.

[@CampGareth]

Finding a mechanic to do the work might be challenging, Cleevely recently stopped doing swaps but there will be others.

[@fist003]

Robert at Fully Charged Show did that with his Leaf.

[@andrewtinker1802]

As some others have commented: I enjoy the video but have a few points to add. I have 2012 leaf and 2020 model Y 1)You can have as many EV's charging simultaneously at full charge as you have amperage going to your home. Given you need to run a separate circuit for each charger. In the US the average house has 200amp panel which in my experience is more than enough to charge a tesla and a leaf(at full charge power) and run all the other normal household items simultaneously. 2)Brakes: as others have mentioned the brakes on older ev especially my 2012 leaf are not programmed to use the regen during all decel like a tesla. So you do use more brakes, but less than a normal car easily by 1/3 or maybe even 1/5. I found the rear rotors rust on my leaf because they dont get used, and then wear more because they are rusty when they do get used. Again great video agree with all the other points special range in the winter.

[@DjDolHaus86]

I like how you've given your honest real world experience and people in the comments are still saying you're wrong.

[@tt3233]

I am so glad I found this review. I was looking at a 2012 leaf to drive to work. I was told by the car salesman that it has a 100 mile range. My job is about 45 miles one way.

[@MrRozebud]

I would try and stretch to a 2014 model if you possibly can, as a few of the first gen issues were addressed.

[@caryoutismusic4515]

We’ve got two ev’s, one rated at 124 miles, the other 164. Charging rarely clashes at all as long as we pay attention to the consumption. The two of us are also happy to swap cars. Total yearly mileage around 20,000.

[@EVinstructor]

The 24kW Leaf has 22kW useable capacity when new. At 38p per kW that would be £8.36 to charge from 0 to full. Probably a bit less for yours as it’s lost capacity over time. The best guide to the cost of charging is using the miles per kW. This should be worst case around 3.5 miles per kW in your Leaf which will be about 10p per mile. Also does the car have a heat pump or PTC heating? 10 miles loss sounds a lot. I’ve never seen that much in the 2 Leafs I’ve owned. I have no off street parking and charge overnight in a residents charging bay plugged into a street lamp. Luckily our council are installing lots of these. We need more towns and cities to install these chargers. They are inexpensive and easy to install.

[@CampGareth]

That white interior says it's one of the earliest Japanese imports which used PTC heaters iirc.

[@maineiacman]

I drive a 2015 with a heat pump and it becomes energy inefficient below 15F, and starts to have a hard time heating 0F and below.

[@S40WBS]

@@CampGareth I was actually contemplating going to look at a white interior early Japanese model 52km any tips/recommendations?

[@S40WBS]

@@Yettie-d1o just doesn’t make no sense you are better off with you “gas guzzler” lol and filling up in a station (when they have fuel) is quick and easy...

[@EVinstructor]

@@Yettie-d1o For most EV owners it would be exceptionally difficult and inconvenient to pay 41p/Kw for charging. Here’s a summary of charging options: FREE There’s plenty of free charging to be had. My car is currently filling up for free at a Tesco near my home as I type this. Was speaking to an EV owner as I plugged in who’s done 500 miles in his new 208 electric for free. OVERNIGHT TARIFF The way a lot of EV owners charge at home about 5p to 10p/kW. LAMP POSTS This is how I charge when not getting free electricity. Residents chargers in street lamps. I have no off street parking. 23p/kW in our city. HOME DOMESTIC RATE At Home on a standard tariff typically 20p to 30p/kW RAPID CHARGERS From 27p/kW to 50p/kW. There are the Ionity at 69p but for all sorts of reasons there are very few EVs that would pay that much at Ionity. On an everyday basis you’d have to drive to a rapid charger which could be a few miles from home, sit around for 30 minutes to wait for a charge and then pay more for it. Doesn’t make sense. On a long journey it makes a lot of sense but for most people a journey beyond their battery range is rare on an everyday basis. My car does 4.2 miles/kW. So an easy calculation is 42 miles costs = 10 x price per kW. At 10p/kW 42 miles is £1. At 20p/kW 42 miles is £2. At 40p/kW 42 miles is £4. My total electricity bill for the car last tax year was £660. I was getting electricity at 13p/kW from the street lights until April.

[@yodab.at1746]

2 points. The emissions test is a tiny part of the mot, most of the time is spent examining mechanical parts. 2. If the rear brakes are 100% worn, it should have failed. The rears on any car normally last a lot longer than fronts.

[@wiredforstereo]

That's not necessarily true, especially with a front wheel drive EV which uses the front axle for regenerative braking. If the RB is working well, the front brakes will last a long time. My Leaf is at 100k miles, and still on the original brakes.

[@yodab.at1746]

@@wiredforstereo the braking effort on rear brakes is around 25%max due to weight being shifted to the front under braking. It's doesn't matter how the braking happens, be it regen or friction in terms of weight shifting but obviously, friction brakes last longer when regen is used. On rear drums, there are rubber bungs and inspection holes to see the thickness of the brake linings. 100% worn linings would be about 1mm thick. Under prelonged braking, the risk is the lining bond breaking away from the shoe.

[@wiredforstereo]

@@yodab.at1746 Leafs don't have rear drums. I suspect repair shop BS, at any rate.

[@miniaddict4534]

I’m glad I watched this video because a family member is considering purchasing a 1st gen Leaf. She thinks she can use it because her commute is 30 miles one way on the highway (motorway) and she would have enough range to find a charger. After seeing this video I realize the Leaf would leave her stranded at her office. Also, it sucks the UK is paying so much for electricity. In the US, utility providers have a lot of incentives for charging electric cars. My utility provider charges me $0.03 per kWh and charging a Leaf would be around $2.

[@TL-xw6fh]

If it takes you 3 hours to charge the Leaf, that means you only put in 10 kw of energy, just like my Leaf on the same Podpoint charger which equates to only 70 pence of electricity. For the 3 hours of charge, I can drive around 30 to 40 miles which is very cheap to run!

[@BaybieK]

I pay peanuts to charge and get 73 miles in descent weather with 8 bars. Love the car!

[@Boberek4]

Exactly :)

[@davefitzpatrick4841]

Call me tight but I use my local Tesco in winter and my solar Panels come spring/Summer , it virtually costs bugger all to run ( apart from doing long journeys using Rapids )

[@t4bs594]

Is that assuming he has the slow charging model?

[@TL-xw6fh]

@@t4bs594 The early models have only a maximum of 3.3 Kwh build in charger. Nissan had originally designed it as a pure city car to be charged over night.

[@dankrafted]

its funny that recently the Fully Charged show did a piece about plug in hybrids being pointless and everyone should go to full electric, a summary of this suggest that a plug in hybrid would fit most people the best... 50 miles around town on full electric, and then the petrol for the motorway miles where electric is less efficient. shifting emissions from cities where air quality is the worst. my petrol car cost much less than 5k, and that gives quite a few years of runnings costs before it equals the leaf. its nice to see a more balanced take on EVs, and the realities of how they function. as second cars, for those that can afford it, they make a lot of sense. but i think if you can only have one car, while the charging infrastructure is still woefully lacking it makes very little sense, not least financially but also environmentally. if we all have massive batteries sitting in our cars not being used, its a huge waste of that resource.

[@joelhenderson4450]

I have an EV in Canada, it has a heat pump; but when it’s colder than about -4 C, the range is cut in half. And the ice builds up in the wheel wells like crazy. Suddenly a car that throws off a lot of waste heat looks pretty good.

[@Somites]

Not for the climate.

[@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii7738]

@@Somites I think there’s bigger issues facing the climate atm than whether someone in Canada buys a different car or not

[@samthoma2719]

@@Somites cars are the easy target for climate change. They account for a tiny percentage of the problem. Farming, concrete production, planes and ships are just a few and they’re all exponentially bigger problems than the car. Ridiculous idea to go electric needs to be a synthetic fuel of some sort. The infrastructure in literally 95% of the world wouldn’t be ready to go full electric JUST ON CARS within the next 30-50 years.

[@Somites]

@@iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii7738 transportation is 20% of all emissions

[@Somites]

@@samthoma2719 20% is not a tiny portion.

[@jimkelleher5312]

Great perspective on the pros & cons of a used 24kwh LEAF, we've leased a 2014 LEAF, 2017 Bolt and now own a 2022 Modely Y. I'll be looking for a used low mileage LEAF, Bolt or similar in the not too distant future for my commuting & local running about. We have a level 2 charger in the garage, solar panels, and a net metering contract with the local utility. Not every car needs to have long range battery capacity, you can save a lot of money if you don't pay for a long range battery that you don't really need.

[@HK.Builds]

Really great video Rory! Fun fact, the real time overnight electricity cost is more like 27-30p / KWh right now (12am to 5am) and last few days the wholesale price has been closer to 45p per KWh! . So that 7p tariff you have is losing the energy provider money like crazy. Seems like very few people were on those flexi tariffs otherwise the provider would have gone bust like the 30 others before it. At 30p overnight... still cheaper than £2 a litre for petrol because that is where we are going 😭

[@joeynessily]

You can get EV specific tariffs. The costs of electricity to the provider aren't a flat, they balance their prices based on peak usage in your area of the country, during the early hours of the night, demand basically disappears and the wholesale costs plummet, even in the current market... they can even have an excess and need to find sources to make use of it, especially when it's windy! I got a fixed deal till 2024 a few weeks back with EDF and they still offer overnight rates of 4.5p. So its still possible to get those pricesl.

[@Brian-om2hh]

Where on earth do you get that overnight rate from? I pay 7.5p per kwh, and that's after a 50% increase in cost!!!! At 3 miles per kw ( I often do more) even that works out at no more than 2.5p per mile..... Still got a long way to go before it gets anywhere near the running costs of an ICE car.....

[@HK.Builds]

@@Brian-om2hh from the N2EX exchange. Shows the day ahead auction prices.

[@HK.Builds]

@@joeynessily that's pretty impressive, especially at 4.5p. I've tried to move tariffs but they won't take on anymore customers until the prices cool off a bit. That's with octopus, EDF etc. Your locational pricing is affected by how far away from a generator you live, if you live closer you pay less. They are called TNUoS charges and are passed on to your bill. The flat rate wholesale price with those prices added on is still way more than 4.5p. EDF have bought a lot of energy on long term contracts. Most other suppliers have not hence why they went bust. I regret not going fixed, my supplier bulb is taking me to the cleaners.

[@joeynessily]

@@Brian-om2hh Check out EDFs deals. The rate during the day is 35p!... so it's not all fantastic.. but I can make use the 4.5p by putting the washer dryer etc on while it's cheap!

[@joeynessily]

Rory I think you should now purchase a better example second hand Leaf, perhaps one from 2015/2016. Nissan made significant improvements over the life of the first gen (shape) Leaf. In 2014/2015 models with the same size 24kwh battery, they included a heat pump and changed the battery cells. These cars fair a lot better than this first gen. Last year I sold a 2015, 24kwh with 50k miles and it still had all it's 12 battery life bars. The 30kwh models fair even better. This would contrast your experience on this old one. I drove my current 30kwh Leaf from Manchester to Cambridge a few months ago, doing motorway speeds and I only had to stop once.

[@jimf4748]

I agree. I've got a 2017 24kwh Leaf and in the summer I can get 85 miles and 65 miles in the real cold winter days. The heat pump makes a huge difference. I can't charge at home but I've never had to pay to charge due to the number of free chargers in Scotland. My home town has four 50kw and six 7kw chargers - all free.

[@Simon-dm8zv]

kWh ;)

[@joeynessily]

@@Simon-dm8zv 👍

[@FlyingFun.]

I wanted a leaf just before you made your first video on yours, I was looking at £4500 to buy one and electricity cost of around 8pence per kw so it made sense , I waited though because I'm like that lol, now I'm looking at £7000 upwards for a leaf and like you say kw price is much higher too and it no longer makes financial sense compared to just keeping my diesel Honda civic which does 50 to 60 mpg and is a nicer car with no range anxiety. So the leaf is off my radar now, Instead, to be green and save money I cycle whenever possible ( ebike lol ).

[@chazsmith4351]

Glad you have your Evite very tough to beat for being green and fit. But the content creator did not mention was the maintenance savings so even if the cost of the fuel for the vehicles are roughly the equivalent the electric vehicle over the long-term will still be cheaper to run. I'm very doubtful about the need for the rear brakes that he quoted and is very possible that your diesel would require brake so even giving the Nissan mechanic the benefit of the doubt it's probably a wash for that item. I really hope he got a second opinion though about that brake job, very suspicious. Also I don't think it's fair to claim that it's costing more to charge the car if indeed he is able to do it at night when the charge rates have stayed low. Unless he's having to make a choice charging his car or doing his laundry or cooking, which seems very doubtful, the fact that his overall electrical cost have gone up for the things as a irrelevant in terms of evaluating in the car. Also I would point, since you are a cyclist, what kind of car would you rather share the road with? My bet is you'd rather be breathing clean air verses diesel exhaust. There's a hint in the name of the fuel.

[@woodysmuddy]

Same for me, but I have a 1999 diesel Toyota Noah. I just cycle more and when I drive, I do it more considerately.

[@JeffKubel]

His calculation of charging cost was very broken and not at all accurate. He simply is not using 24kWh to go 60 miles. It's impossible.

[@FlyingFun.]

@@JeffKubel agreed, there wont be 24kwh left in the battery anyway. He should have measured the amount kWh to recharge to full after the 60 mile trip to get an accurate measurement.

[@SimonHollandfilms]

the leaf is an ideal car for a clean local runabout....probably perfect for millions of families currently burning petrol. get an ev...clean and cheap to run.

[@yotuanyboi6201]

With electric prices going up like mad. I'm still happy with my C4 Picasso diesel. 60 litres is just under £100 and does 573 miles range. Would love a hybrid but I'm a low wage worker 🤣

[@v31.48]

Haha my prius does 400 km on half a tank.

[@agustinguzman1428]

I bought a 2018 leaf and it's the best decision I ever made. 40kw battery pack will get me to and from work on a full charge and with about 20 miles left on the range. I level 2 charge every day at work. I've been doing it every day for about 2 years and no no signs of battery degradation as of yet. I live in california and my leaf hasnt experienced colder weather than about 38* F. I have however experienced 100 to 105* F and the battery does get hot but does not over heat. The important thing to note is that everyone has a different driving routine and you'll realize what that is with an EV because you're forced to pay attention to your range very differently compared to a gas vehicle. It becomes a habit and a totally different driving experience. The torque or any modern electrical vehicle is huge for me. Not too slow, not too fast. Just right. Cheers!

[@shoestringsev4529]

Best way to fight rising energy costs is to get a storage battery that you charge on cheap night rate and use during the day. You can also add Solar to further reduce you grid needs. On of the great things about EVs is it makes you source independent. You car doesn't care where the electricity comes from. Petrol, gas, coal ect you are tide to that one source and the inherent risks involved.

[@TsLeng]

Agree about batteries but it got me thinking about how all this will be affecting the less fortunate. People who live in apartments can't do solar or batteries. They can't take advantage of cheap tariff for charging, need to use public chargers. Now, this looks like the rich and lucky are reaping all the benefits and the rest can go suck eggs Me, I have my own house so not a problem. But then I drive around 3-4k miles a year only so sticking to my petrol car for now.

[@shoestringsev4529]

@@TsLeng absolutely this furthers wealth advantage. As they say it is expensive being poor.

[@bb_lz9790]

Great video and I don't disagree with you about any of the points that you made. I bought a 2014 LEAF brand new and still love it. Enjoyed free 240 Vac charging at work for the first 3 years of ownership. Now that I'm retired, I only use 120 Vac charging at home (in the US). My son is using it as his work commute car and it's working well for him too. Only once has he had to stop on his way home and plug in at a local supermarket.

[@CoolTies]

Back in 2015, I had the 2012 Leaf in Toronto at a work event held at the Alt Hotel near Pearson airport. Back then charging at the hotel was the only option and I remember asking the hotel if I could use the level 2 charging spot at the front entrance. I asked if they could move the ICE vehicle sitting in the charging parking spot. Their attitude clearly indicated that the spot was first-come-first parked and my needing a charge was my issue and not theirs. The temperature was -25ºC and the normal 110km range (96K km so only 10 bars remaining) with the cold had dropped to 50km and with 1/2 charge I was going to be lucky to get 25km range (especially as I needed to take a 400 series highway). I drove without heat and I barely made it home shivering with near hypothermia. That's when I realised EV was not for me. Even with today's models there are too many compromises for the premium pricing.

[@geokilla007]

Hope you filed a complaint with management. Things are a lot different now and people actually try and respect the EV parking rules.

[@Propulus]

That's the thing, you're having to deal with additional headaches and worries, and are also paying more. Sure the tech R&D is a huge cost, but from the consumer's side it's a lose-lose.

[@TML34]

To be fair, that was 2015, it’s much easier to find charge points now. And most EV’s have a reasonable range that your scenario really would be your own problem.

[@geokilla007]

@@TML34 That's why PHEV are what manufacturers should be pushing while EV tech is ramping up. Losing almost half my range in winter sucks! It's also not easy finding a charger in Toronto. Especially if you live in a condo.

[@TML34]

@@geokilla007 I know, man. The cold kills the range! The non-plug-in hybrids are the way to go if you live in a condo.

[@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080]

I have a 2013 Leaf SL with the heat pump and I love it. It goes around 131 kms on a charge in the summer, maybe 90 km in most winter days. My pickup hasn't needed gas in 3 months. That is a huge savings. Every 100 kms I drive my Leaf instead of my truck saves me about $32 so likely $640 per month. I'm in PEI, Canada. My wife drives a Ford Focus Electric and we like it even more. Less space but more pace, and the summer range is over 200 km.

[@andydraper6329]

Great video about some of the realities of earlier more affordable EV ownership. The Vauxhall Ampera addresses perfectly the range issue identified. It suits my 60 mile daily commute and the occasional longer trips all with the one car. Perhaps the ‘range extender’ type car isn’t such a bad a thing after all.

[@TsLeng]

A good phev would suit many one car households. Shame a lot of hate is thrown at them. 30-40miles electric range would see most people doing their daily driving on electric only. But no need for another car or faff about for longer journeys .

[@lmaoroflcopter]

The Ampera was game changing. Sad it ended :( Would love a diesel electric vehicle.

[@nuss529]

@@lmaoroflcopter The Volvo V60 D6 and the Mercedes E300 Bluetec hybrid are actually diesel hybrids! Here in Finland you can get them for about 14 000€

[@hymlog]

@@lmaoroflcopter ...AMPERA ....HAAAA WHAT A JOKE!

[@ChapFeesta]

I bought a 2017 Leaf about two months ago. I love this! I save about $250 a month over the gas car. I have a 42 mile commute to work. This Leaf has the ability to make that entire trip everyday. I do have to put her on the charger after because there is not much battery left afterward. I love it though!

[@mikeyboy01443]

Looks like you have one of the very early ones, which had the electric heater rather than the heat pump, hence you had worse range. This could put people off, you can tell by the beige interior. I have a leaf24 and have got from Cardiff to west Wales on one charge (just) which is 80 miles. Yes it's worse in winter but you get used to the range 🙂

[@arronguy]

A have a 2015 24kw. leaf. Love it. The range is still really good, best Charge range I’ve had is 87 miles,( I live in London). But low temps about 78. I never use the heater, just the heated steering wheel and seats and I put another jumper on. Hate the look of the car but who cares when you’re driving it? Cruises like a dream. Can’t fault it.

[@MrJustwatchin9]

I had the similar experience as yours but mine was a 2017 sv model with the 30kwh battery and 41k miles. It was acquired in the winter so I was averaging 50-75 mi when I first got it. My apartment complex had a level 2 ev charger that charged me up in a little less than 4hrs. But then I was in the process of moving in a brutally hot summer to a house so I had to rely on public level 2 & 3 chargers more. Due to the abnormal summer heat in Atlanta ga, my battery started running warmer than usual and I had to quick charge every single day to meet my daily commute and time schedule needs which caused my battery bar indicator to go down by 1. Over the remainder of that summer going into the winter my battery performance dropped even lower to where I’m averaging 20-40 miles in the cold having to level 2 and 3 charge at public stations outside my job locations and at grocery stores in between every single trip. It became a nightmare to manage, not to mention another bar lost on my battery indicator (7 bars left). I took it to Nissan dealership where they ran a diagnostic that cost around $80. They said that I was down to only 6 good cells and everything else was dead. At that point I was at 61k miles and was approved for a warranty battery swap and a waived diagnostic fee. Hooray! It took about 2.5 months for the battery pack to arrive at my dealership and lo and behold it was a brand new 45kwh battery pack that gave me 150 mile range. It has become my daily driver without having to consider buying a cheap gas car which I would’ve had to consider if I didn’t have this swap. The downside to this new battery is because the leafs don’t have active battery cooling or heating it takes longer to heat up in the winter so I’ll resort to stopping by a quick charger to charge a little past 80% to get the battery temp to go up. The other downside I’d one that I’m happy to have is longer charging times(due to longer range). 6hrs to fully charge with level 2, almost 1 hour on level 3. I don’t have time to trickle charge at home and have no level 2 charging at home YET. But it will go from 70-90% over night with trickle charge. The battery swap was recent so I have yet to see how the summer temperatures will fare with my new battery but since I’ve gotten it I haven’t had to worry about charging every day and when I do I’ll level 2 charge while at work or of necessary level 3 charge before I go home to around 70-80% to trickle charge at home to around 85-100% (100% on rare occasions) So far the new battery is a breeze. I am no longer considering a gas car as a backup at the moment. And I love my Nissan Leaf

[@noahlaferriere5515]

That's awesome that they gave you a larger battery pack and all of it was covered under warranty! I'd say you hit the jackpot! :D

[@markholmes6831]

How much would the battery pack have been if not covered by warranty?

[@MrJustwatchin9]

@@markholmes6831 20k

[@robertmarsh3588]

@@MrJustwatchin9 wow, crazy price. So, will we be throwing away any car that doesn't get s new free battery back? Seems like it. Not great for the environment

[@thatdude1435]

@@robertmarsh3588 hit the nail on the head there. Every single person straight up claiming they are saving the planet by driving an EV have clearly NOT done the math or not even thought it through ;)

[@integralhighspeedusb]

To the last point the leaf only really needs a normal power socket as it probably only charges at 3kW max anyway. good video and valid considerations though.

[@Auraxium]

My little Citigo does about 300 miles on a tank in winter, 50 mpg, low insurance group and doesn't cost much more than this Leaf. 101 g/km. Euro 6 compliant too. My main complaint with the wee car is that the potholes are so big these days, sometimes I wonder if I'll disappear down one, never to be seen again.

[@rhyancharles7209]

The funniest I have read here 😂😂

[@huwjones5879]

An excellent unbiased and honest review. Used Leaf prices have increased since Rory bought his though, 2011 cars are around £7k at present.

[@defenderred1212]

Glad to see one of these reviews done on the leaf. I owned one (2012) for 4 years in Phoenix Arizona and I loved it until the range dropped off. Had Nissan thrown more engineering resources at the car to protect the battery from thermal degradation, I might have bought a LeafPlus instead of a Model Y.

[@AdamMGTF]

It was one of (if not the first?) Mass produced electric cars. And was built specifically to be affordable. The fact they are still going 15 years later when a 15 year old derv here in the UK is financially often not worth spending much on if they go wrong... Speaks volumes. Engineering is about learning from experience. The newer leafs are a world ahead. I say this as someone who doesn't like electric power.

[@smileychess]

@@AdamMGTF - "as someone who doesn't like electric power" - That's a random thing to have an opinion about, one way or the other. Like saying "I don't like the lung capacity of a zebra."

[@AdamMGTF]

@@smileychess I should have said. I don't like cars that are solely powered using batteries. Your absolutely correct, it wasn't well put.

[@smileychess]

@@AdamMGTF - I understood what you meant, just thought it was a funny way to word it. Cheers mate.

[@The_Car_Stalker]

i agree with you on all the points - i have a 40kwh and its is okay for 80% of the time, but the motorway is a killer - a run to the kids uni takes an EXTRA 2.5 hours on the round trip. It is so annoying. Rising Electric costs are offset with rising petrol prices so running costs are generally half of a equivalent petrol car

[@bradtem]

What you say about sharing the charging current is particular to your situation. In many homes you can get full charging power for two stations or even more, it depends on what sort of electric service you have and what sort of wiring to your garage. In reality though, the average car only goes 35 miles/day on average, and 2 cars will be even closer to 70 miles/day with 2 people, and that's very easy to replenish with even a single circuit.

[@redbaron6805]

Exactly. There is no scenario where you would need to charge two cars back to back for 9 hours each.

[@THEN1S]

I am in exactly the same position with my 2013 leaf. I love it with all its foibles. Mainly because the leaf was the first on the market. Waiting for someone in the north west UK to offer a battery upgrade at a decent price.

[@marvinsamuels1237]

An interesting watch. I was curious to see how you got on the your cheap EV. Regarding brakes, my understanding was that if you used the regeneration more it reduced the wear on the brakes but didn’t stop wear completely. I reckon the previous owner used the brakes as you would in an ICE car, hence the higher than expected wear. I made the switch to EV in Nov, settling on an Ioniq 38kW. It’s been fine on the motorway, managing 145 on a snowy day which isn’t that far off the official 193 miles, let alone the real world 165. I’m expecting to manage closer to 200 mile of local driving during the summer. Loving your videos. Keep em coming 👍🏾

[@q3b26]

I've been considering getting an Ioniq 38kWh or a Corsa-e 50kWh recently, interested to hear your thoughts on the car. I live in the city centre without charging and rarely need to use the car so wanted something that had enough range for me to not worry about having to top it up every other day. The furthest I'll generally go is about a 50 mile round trip with the occasional trip to nearby cities maybe up to 100 miles away. My parents live 200 miles away so reassurance that I can comfortably sit on the motorway for at least half the journey without having to re-charge is a necessity. I was originally looking at getting a Series 2 Leaf 62kWh but after finding out that there's no reach on the steering wheel that's an immediate no for me, and I'd rather have Type 2 charging than CHAdeMO. Of course, if money were no option I'd hold out and just buy a Lucid Air when it comes to the UK but we can only hope 😂

[@marvinsamuels1237]

@@q3b26 we chose the Ioniq over a Corsa for the space as it’s our main family car, but if it’s just you the better range of the Corsa may sway it for you. The Ioniq is very well equipped, particularly is Premium SE spec, is nimble around town, has comfy seats even on longer journeys, is very efficient and has decent if not amazing charging speeds (I managed 10 - 70% in 30 mins at a Lidl the other week). Styling wise, I wouldn’t call it a looker, it was definitely a decision made with the head rather than the heart, but it is a car I would recommend. A 5 year warranty is also a boon. From what I’ve read the Corsa-e is a good car, with better range, charging speed and acceleration than the Ioniq. I’d suggest test driving both and seeing not only which car you like the feel of the most, but also which dealer you felt better interacting with, that’s really important. Good luck with your search and choice.

[@marvinsamuels1237]

@@q3b26 p.s. I wanted an Ioniq 5, then an EV6, but couldn’t afford either so settled for the Ioniq for now.

[@davideverett7553]

Brake wise I think it's been misunderstood here. This is a 2012 24kw leaf. The regen breaking in these is only when you apply the brakes. You need to step up to an X or G model to get B mode that means you rarely use the brake pedal.

[@Tripp55]

For the love of God, Auto Trader, don't ever let go of Rory. My man just got me to watch a video about a used Nissan Leaf!

[@hectorsantiago9668]

I enjoy watching your reviews since buying my 2012 Nissan Leaf back in July 2021. I try to take most things with a grain of salt because I'm in the US so not ALL points you make may apply to me, but on the whole, I do not have the same gripes with my Leaf that you express in this video. I absolutely agree that you need a second vehicle as a back up just in case a situation calls for extended range that the 24kWh battery cannot accommodate. I'm very curious though why your leaf gets such poor range. How is the battery health? My Leaf, at full charge, gives me an "estimated range" of about 82 miles when I start driving, and an actual range closer to 60 - 65. I drive about 30-40 miles a day and don't really come very close to depleting the battery unless I'm driving abnormally aggressive. I'm also in NJ so it's not all flat terrain. I'd love to hear more about your experience. By the way, a trick I learned while driving my Leaf is to use the power gauge to conserve energy. I try to remain actively aware of my energy consumption, using only the first 3 dots while driving whenever possible.

[@johndoh5182]

Luckily the days of short range BEV is done. Auto makers produce 250 - 600 mile range vehicles either right now or coming out this year and next (600 mile) Many come from China who leads the world in BEV production.

[@hectorsantiago9668]

@@johndoh5182 agreed. I have a newer model EV on my radar but my 2012 leaf had been fantastic for my current usage. It's taken some adjusting driving habits, but I've saved so much money otherwise.

[@lutomson3496]

@@johndoh5182 and teslas are still being scrapped due to the battery pack are worth more then the car, and 50%+ of the batteries end up in landfills unlike lead acid batteries that are 99.9% recyclable

[@BrBill]

@@lutomson3496 Got a source for that 50%+ claim? That's pretty harsh, and if that's true it's a big deal.

[@lutomson3496]

@@BrBill google is your friend in the US no national lithium battery recycling program like there is for lead acid batteries no deposit nothing

[@phil4986]

Best ever real world review on a used Leaf. So much accurate ,unedited comment and information. Thank you for posting all that great information. It's not all sunshine and unicorns....LOL,,,I loved that comment.

[@KieronSmithMusic]

This really was a fantastic review. So interesting to see how these old EV's perform. Most people in my office have cars averaging around £25-30k, I'd like to see what sort of second hand car that would buy and how it would perform in comparison. Maybe an old Tesla Model 3 with 100k mile on the clock

[@redbaron6805]

I think an older model Tesla 3 would be perfect. There was an owner in the USA with a Model 3 with 100k miles and had only lost 2.2% of battery capacity. So, it appears the batteries on those do very well over time. The Leaf is a bit misleading as its air cooled battery doesn't last nearly as long as the modern liquid cooled batteries like Tesla uses.

[@KieronSmithMusic]

@@redbaron6805 Exactly!!! I love that Rory has pointed out all the downsides to a less advanced EV. Stops people thinking if they get an old leaf then it'll be as good as an old Tesla. On the flip side though, people may think if they get an old Tesla, that it'd be like getting an old leaf 😂

[@redbaron6805]

@@KieronSmithMusic Yeah, the old Leaf is a poor benchmark for things like battery longevity and typical range on EV's today. In the right circumstances, as they can (or a least could) be had cheap, they can be a fantastic bargain for local city driving or commuting to work or school. But they can also be found in locations they are not well suited, like southern cities in the USA where the temperature can be very unfriendly to the air cooled battery lifespan. Also, the air cooled battery is not really suited to fast charging except in colder locations like the UK or Canada.

[@ryan3730]

I bought my 2017 Leaf Tekna about 18 months ago and it has gone up 3 grand since then. Amazing.

[@nickporter4279]

Brakes aren't a *lifetime* component of an EV (especially not a Leaf, which I don't think has enough regen to make a complete stop), but should last at least 70k miles and potentially twice that; 90k is typical. I don't know the Leaf's mileage, but if it's not up to 100k and the garage is saying the brakes are at 100% wear, I'd get a second opinion to make sure. They could be scamming you.

[@tiggercat8689]

It's common for ICE car rear brakes to be destroyed by corrosion before wearing out...either way brakes 'wear' over time...

[@hojnikb]

Part of the reason why vw IDs have drums in the rear. Those will likely outlast the car.

[@joeb4294]

It also depends heavily on how the owner drives the car. I wonder what the condition of the brakes were when Rory picked up this used car.

[@redbaron6805]

It all depends on the car and the braking system used. Tesla's come with large oversized brakes so they tend to last around 150k miles. I know my Tesla has around 80k miles on the brakes and they are still fine. But, it also depends on the driver. I use regen all the time so I rarely use the brakes except sudden stops and coming to a full stop. My wife drives the car differently and tends to use the brakes a lot more as she is not as tuned to EV driving and using regen to slow down. Gets to the point a bit that not all electric cars are the same and not all drivers are the same. Also, I live in a state where we never get snow, and there is never salt on the roads, so corrosion here is minimal compared to northern states where snow and salt tends to cause a lot more corrosion issues.

[@robthomas7232]

According to the mot it was on 72308 miles and the advisories are .... Offside Front Suspension arm ball joint has slight play (5.3.4 (a) (i)) Nearside Rear Brake pad(s) wearing thin (1.1.13 (a) (ii)) So it's just the pads from and mot perspective, not sure if we can assume they are original but the disks might be which would be good going. Most disks that need replacing on EVs are due to corrosion for not being used enough.

[@williamfence566]

My Electricity providers new rates make my ( self charging !! ) Hybrid cost effective even with Petrol going up daily . I wouldn't need another vehicle as range anxiety is non existent ( 400 miles a tank ) and I'm getting 55-60 MPG on most commutes although motorway driving as pointed out is a huge economy drain. Great content as usual Rory.

[@deansh8506]

Great to see Rory loving his EV and understanding the limitations and also great to see he's considering another EV. But I remember 10 years ago he used to slag off EV's including the LEAF 😂😂😂🍃🍃🍃

[@edvoon]

10 years ago, I would slag off the LEAF too. And if you paid full price for one back then you'd hate its resell value now. That said, as a used vehicle the LEAF is superb value for money as you get so much more than what you paid for, on the proviso of course that you can make it work for you despite its limitations.

[@tomwallen7271]

Everyone shits on EV's until the price of fuel doubles.

[@sahhull]

@@tomwallen7271 Im still shitting on EV's... Even with the current diesel price. Hydrogen is the sustainable future not batteries.

[@tomwallen7271]

@@sahhull Hydrogen is also still the most dangerous and explosive of all the fuels. Imagine if every Tesla battery fire was a hydrogen explosion.

[@suad01]

Electricty is a fuel

[@DarrylTalks]

I have a 30kWh Leaf, they are just nicer to drive than other cars. I am in New Zealand, which is just about the same size as the UK, perhaps a bit longer. As long as there are chargers, I think the DC charging network is excellent here, I am happy to drive up to 350km per day in my car. The bigger battery makes the car way more useable, I get around 160km or 100 miles per charge. So I can drive Wellington to Taupo on three or four 15-20 minute charge stops. That costs about $40, 25 pounds. I would expect in the UK the 40kWh Leaf is fine to drive just about anywhere. Most of the other points are valid, but I think that a cheap short range EV is good as a second family car. My brother has an older Leaf, like in the video. It is a good errands and short commute car. His teenage kids love to drive it, and it is very safe and cheap for them to drive.

[@joesouthgate]

Just FYI , with modern load managed smart chargers to you can charge 2 cars at full load with no problems 👍

[@t4bs594]

Exactly. One of many things Rory said that were wrong, imo.

[@AutoTraderTV]

I understand this can be the case, especially on larger properties such as businesses. It is possible for newer load balanced chargers to enable multiple EV charging. My research suggests not all chargers can do this. -Rory

[@johnrush3596]

@@AutoTraderTV It comes down to the supply for the property. Assuming a 100amp fuse and a charger that monitors the supply then it is possible to run two charges on a single phase supply as you have 24kw maximum load and a charger normally takes 7kw. The local DNO will need to know mind ! Otherwise switch to a 3 phase supply, this is available for properties and is being installed for new houses. With 3 phase 2 chargers can be easily managed, again the DNO needs to know.

[@joesouthgate]

@@AutoTraderTV true but the new podpoints that are very similar you yours do have active load management. As do many others these days. I would guess it will become a requirement before long.

[@redbaron6805]

@@johnrush3596 The UK must have much smaller electricity panels than the USA does. The base panel here is 36kW and typical panel is 48kW. You have to find a very old house in the USA to have a panel with 24kW.

[@giovannidubon4887]

Loved my 2014 Nissan Leaf (24kw battery). It was a steep learning curve but in the end it was the best choice. I live in Los Angeles where chargers (free included) are plentiful & was fortunate enough to have a 120v outlet to use overnight. Factoring in the free charging at home & charging infrastructure (level 2 & 3) I was able to save more than 75% on fuel costs & maintenance (work car). Yes, it started with about 90 miles range (bought used) & towards the end 70 miles per charge but keep in mind I bought the car for 12k in 2019, learned as I went on how to properly charge the car (used level 3 charging too much) and drive it as efficiently as possible. Put over 70k miles in just under 3 years (bought used with 40k miles). I recently parted with it due to an insane repair cost on ABS/Electric Assisted braking system ($5000.00). I'm devastated since out of all the times to go bust on me gas prices are through the roof right now. Luckily we have a second somewhat efficient car (2015 Nissan Rogue almost 200k miles) but I will definitely not buy a cheap used EV out of warranty again. The technology is still to expensive to risk a system failure like I did. Next car will be a Tesla or more reliable EV when I can afford it in a few years. I'm buying a hybrid (used prius) for now.

[@AsekiBekovy]

who quoted you $5000 for the braking system repair?

[@Lot76CARS]

Nicely balanced Rory. At this price point, even with range degradation, it probably a solution for 75% of motoring needs.

[@DEAR7340]

That's what so many people miss. People (in the US) tend to select the vehicle that projects their personal style rather than their needs/requirements. They justify it by amplifying the 1% of scenarios that they might need a vehicle to handle.

[@JulieWallis1963]

We have a 2020 Nissan Leaf. We love her, our Evie will take us over 100 miles. If we need to go much farther than that we factor in a stop for recharging. Only last week we stopped on the motorway services and got a rapid charge , enough to get us home with no problems. Evie costs us next to nothing to run, we usually charge her at the free charging ports at Tesco.

[@ItsAllJustBollox]

I have a Leaf a newer 40kwh battery model and it does a more reasonable 130+ miles in winter regardless of the weather, cost to run today it did 4 miles per kw with the heater on the later cars are far better than the early ones.

[@ash_pro_2000]

One thing to note about the price issue you mentioned. There are EV friendly tariffs available for EV owners with off street parking (Octopus Go being one of them). This allows you to use electricity at a super cheap rate (£0.07/KWh) for 4 hours overnight. So with a 7KW home charger being used for 4 hours, you'll get 28KWh for

[@The_journeyy]

*I remember when I started seeing these going around and now look how far electric has come* 🔥

[@jmy1974]

Still not worth it

[@redbaron6805]

@@jmy1974 Absolutely false.

[@tsaszymborska7389]

65 miles apparently.

[@traffickdsoul]

2 years ago I bought a used 2012 LEAF aero that was grey imported to Australia. Did the sums and the total life cost was comparable to an ICE around the same price. It’s our 2nd car and it goes everywhere. Brisbane Australia means we blast The AC in summer but the heater is rarely touched. Our range is constant through the year. The best thing is this is just a dumb car there’s no superfluous crap like lane assist, autopilot, warning beeps, talk to base or blindingly massive touch display in the centre console. Love it and all it’s flaws.

[@wizzard5442]

Whats the range? I'm in OZ too.

[@joelcrow]

There is some super helpful real world experience shared in this, thank you!! I’d love to know how long it holds a charge if you don’t drive it? Say you go on holiday and come back home 2 weeks later, is the leaf’s battery dead?

[@AdamMGTF]

There are some errors like. Especially about who can work on it and what it should cost for things like the MoT. Oh And the mega battery drain. Simply fit heated seats. I put some lovely black leather rx8 seats in one for a customer. Electrically operated and of course fully heated. I charged the customer £120 labour. He said the range in the cold went up at least £40%! Luckily the back seats were already black leather and he got the seats for £70/80 or something. so a good upgrade. He kept the OEM seats to put back in when he sells the car. So he'll get the £80 back as well!

[@limburgercheese1234]

I have a similar leaf. Range loss after sitting for two to three weeks is very minimal. Take note that the vehicle will automatically charge the small deep cycle 12 volt battery every 5 to 7 days. One of the charge indicator lights will blink during this process. Also if you have a model with a small solar panel at the back of the roof, this also keeps the 12 volt battery topped off, but only if parked outside.

[@franjangle]

I left my 2017 Leaf on the drive for 3 months while I was in France. It bipped at me on return & drove off as if never been away, apart from the windows starting to grow a trace of moss!

[@simonjewers6778]

We have a 2015 Leaf, after 45,000 miles we had to change the tyres because they were "old" not worn. Brakes have negligible wear. We get 90 miles range on the M3 at 55/60, but less on trips to Devon due to the hills. Bought for 10k at 6 months old, still worth 9k after 5 years. Charged from economy 7 and solar. And on short trips it's great at overtaking.

[@cjhanley5096]

So, there are good bits and bad bits, it's viable for some but an absolute non-starter for others. But, enough of your jacket, let's talk about the Leaf....

[@kenbrown9433]

Our used Nissan Leaf works great here in Tucson, where the winters are mild. We travel overseas during the worst heat of summer, so the heat doesn't affect our parked Leaf negatively. Ours has a current range of about 75 miles, which is plenty for running around town, but the original battery was replaced with a newer battery from a wrecked Leaf.

[@Larry]

So take it of Leaf it? :P

[@gabrielsanchez5635]

1. The Leaf range was intended mostly for city driving and it exceeds in that condition. 2. Not for harsh climates. 3. It is very, very roomy for it’s size. 4. As long as the battery is not degraded and under decent driving it will last over 120,000 miles with minimum maintenance. 5. It’s brakes are first class. I’m a heavy user in the city and had never changed the brakes, except for one time, it’s rear pad shoes.

[@VerilogTutor]

I completely agree about the MOT: they are running far fewer tests so why should it cost the same?

[@sergentcolonnigel2306]

because there's a maximum charger garages can set for an MOT, shop around many charge less.

[@gregshearer423]

It’s literally one thing emissions the car still gets head lights checked full mechanical check over and still put through the break rollers and use want it at a reduced price 😂😂😂

[@maryannrondinella5680]

I never use the regular climate control on my 2012 Nissan LEAF except for the defrost setting in foggy weather. Instead, I use the heated seats and heated steering wheel, and that has negligible effect on range in ECO mode. I get about 50 miles of range with original battery and that is driving on mostly rural roads at 55 to 65 miles per hour. If I could find a bigger battery, I'd swap it out in a heartbeat and drive this car for another decade. But it will likely get replaced with a Hyundai/Kia EV in a couple of years when there are more available to buy. I live in North Florida, USA.

[@redbaron6805]

Very cool. I live in South Florida and don't see many Leafs around here anymore. My neighborhood is filling up with Tesla's. I used to be one of only 2 or 3 when I got mine 6 years ago.

[@timw1971]

Great video, Rory. On the point about charging two cars, you can charge two at full speed if you have a 100-amp main fuse, which most UK houses do. We regularly do! And your calculation is a bit out. Even if one car does charge at half speed and each takes 9 hours, the time to charge two will be *13.5 hours max*, not 18 hours, because when one finishes, the other will revert to full speed.

[@j887276]

I borrowed one brand new from a local Nissan dealer, had a 39 mile commute each way. It died before I got home. the range they advertise is assuming you drive 25mph without the heat or a/c, and no radio, headlights or phone chargers. That was with a brand new Leaf in 2014, can't imagine a used one. that's just daily commuting, can't imagine weekend trips with a Leaf. Better have roadside assistance 🤣. Longer story short, I paid $1,900 cash for a 2003 Toyota Echo. Had it for years now, gets 39mpg even with aggressive driving and minimal maintenance costs.

[@lazycalm41]

The point about driveways. The govn. seem to think 2/3 of all households in the UK have driveways which is nonsense! The vast majority of people living in big cities are lucky if they can even park in their own road most days let alone outside their house! Also what about those living in high rise flats? I also think given how energy companies will now be fleecing us for all they can get with the price hikes, we will see owning an EV become ever more expensive due to charging costs.

[@bibleandbeyond_]

Great video Rory thanks for the info 1 question though How can you pass the mot with 100% worn rear brakes?

[@samburnstoast]

That's my thought too

[@Macmonkey1000]

It's almost as if the Nissan dealership are lying bastards desperate to rip customers off on one of the few components that do degrade on EV's but I really don't know.

[@gurungmahima]

Finally a video that explains why I lost range whilst driving on a motorway 😅 Thank you Autotrader 🙏

[@robertscott3686]

I’m amazed at 2 points in this video: 1) A car can pass its MOT with rear brakes 100% worn. 2) A motoring journalist didn’t know the max charge for an MOT is set in law.

[@AutoTraderTV]

Is the minimum charge set in law?

[@Umski]

@@AutoTraderTV Garages can charge "anything" they want below the max - just depends what extra work they *might* find to compensate themselves for the fee reduction e.g. "worn" brakes etc

[@gavcnr]

I've had a Nissan e-NV200 for 18 months, it only has 18 kWh of usable batteries, only charged at home once for testing because I top up almost every day for free at Tesco using Podpoint, VW's diesel gate foots the bill for this, and I maintain a BP Pulse account just in case I need to charge elsewhere, for breaking, I mostly use the REGEN while only touching the main breaks below 10 mph and emergencies.

[@BigVern1980]

All good points made, great for local journeys etc and utility prices don't help on running costs. Could always hire an ice car for occasional longer journeys tho? Probably cheaper than running a second car full time?

[@redbaron6805]

That is precisely the point most people miss. How many long journeys to you do annually. It it is only a handful, no point in keeping a second car to do those, just get a rental car for a day or a weekend.

[@marks-0-0]

You make some good points there Rory. I'm more convinced of my idea to buy something like the Wuling mini EV if it comes to the UK. It makes sense to own a small car for nipping around in that is cheap to buy and cheap to run.

[@craigchatterton4164]

I find it interesting that you had such problems driving your Leaf on a motorway. I drove a 2013 Leaf 25 miles one way to work that's about 75% freeway. Here in Oregon, that means 60-70mph every single workday, 50 miles round trip. The Leaf had no problems driving it and I'd get home with 10-20 miles left. I did this for seven years before Covid hit. Also, same Leaf, currently has 85,000 miles on it. At 80,000 miles I had to get my tires replaced. The tire shop told me my brakes still looked like new. So the brake myth is still strong for me anyway. I think you got hit because you bought some unknown used car. Who knows how the previous owner drove it?

[@keithmyerscough697]

I also have no trouble with my 2013 Zoe, which I believe is basically the same car under a less quirky exterior. Preheating the car while it's charging is maybe making more of a difference than I thought.

[@jakepF1D]

This is exactly my thought on the brakes. Now that I have a car that has one pedal driving(Bolt), I can't imagine going back to using 2 pedals other than for emergency braking. For other people old habits die hard, and they refuse to change how they drive even if it means reduced range and increased maintenance costs.

[@BrBill]

@@jakepF1D Yup. Another big thing is, I use cruise control whenever possible. I scam plenty of extra range that way.

[@KristoferOlafsson]

I have a 2016 30kW model. I Love my leaf, we also have a minivan for those longer trips. But the leaf is 90%+ of our driving . Family of 5.

[@Vics251]

Considering everything I’ve learned about electric cars, I can’t see me ever changing to one until I have no choice. 🧐

[@stephenlennox6491]

Same.

[@jesparker435]

Same here . Just a novelty .

[@nonyanks2510]

I so agree, yes my Leaf gets best range at between 48 to 53 M.P.H., also I never drive on our freeways because visibilty especially to the sides is terrible, I call my Leaf the Rolling Blind Spot! All in all though its easy to spot in a parking lot, very reliable anf funky as hell which is where me and the Leaf connect. Good vid!

[@Simon-dm8zv]

So you don’t drive on freeways just because of the visibility issues?

[@tavirosu25]

VW: You don't need good brakes on our EVs, that's why we put drum brakes in the back! LOL

[@hojnikb]

thats actually a smart decision.

[@tavirosu25]

@@hojnikb ah yes pay 30k for a car with drum brakes. Totally legit

[@hojnikb]

@@tavirosu25 why have disc breaks when they're not needed?

[@tavirosu25]

@@hojnikb they are needed. It's mosf efficient comercial system. Just maketing bullshit to get more money from you for a produc with less mechanics than a 10k car. Fking EV sheeps!

[@tavirosu25]

@Kzn Nzn it's not. They have proper disk brakes front and back. Because they care for your safety on a 100k EV car...