Awakening to the Meaning Crisis | Robert Wright & John Vervaeke

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0:00 Signs of the so-called “meaning crisis”
3:50 How John addresses the meaning crisis in his own life
10:04 Bob gets empathy-circled-live!
18:48 How much of the meaning crisis is a crisis of community?
25:29 Wisdom as the antidote to self-deception
40:54 Is technological change outpacing our ability to adapt?
45:48 How and where might new sources of meaning emerge?
53:08 The conundrum of collective intelligence (or how should we talk about demons?)
59:57 Can video games give us meaning?
1:04:05 John: “Enlightenment” that fails to confront cognitive bias is meaningless
Robert Wright (Bloggingheads.tv, The Evolution of God, Nonzero, Why Buddhism Is True) and John Vervaeke (University of Toronto). Recorded October 27, 2022.
John Vervaeke's KZbin Channel: / @johnvervaeke
Comments on BhTV: bloggingheads.tv/videos/65178
Twitter: / nonzeropods
Facebook: / bloggingheads
Podcasts: bloggingheads.tv/subscribe

[@roderickhare]

Great to see John V on this channel Bob, I discovered him with the first episode of his "Awakening from the Meaning Crisis" and have been following along ever since. There is real substance to his work, and many layers deep. A single hour is more like an appetizer than a meal, but glad you hosted him. As compelling as his command of the subject matter is, what stands out the most to me about John is his remarkable sincerity and good faith, I don't think I've ever seen an ounce of snark from him, and I respect that.

[@davidmontgomery2929]

Highly agree*

[@matthewkilbride1669]

Having watched a lot of John, I did like the short exercise near the start. Had never seen it before, just heard a lot. You could totally see Bob come out of his shell, drop the skepticism a notch, and the conversation improved tremendously as a result. Good stuff!

[@KalebPeters99]

This was great, Bob! I loved your line of questioning, John gave some insights I haven't heard anywhere yet!

[@matthewkilbride1669]

Wasn’t expecting this. Very happy to see John on nonzero.

[@tylermiller4150]

I feel like John and Bob really like each other now. Dialogos

[@parsons4God]

2 of my favorite humans. Im so happy this happened.

[@jimkozubek4026]

the issue with deaths of despair is not a question of meaning, but of complexity. when modern life becomes too complex its is too hard to navigate and put under order.

[@Magnulus76]

For most human beings on the planet, life cannot become simpler. We can't revert to a previous state of existence without catastrophe. In addition, simplicity without ontological depth = boredom. We need to be trained how to deal with life, not taken out of life.

[@UtarEmpire]

Hi Bob - welcome to This Little Corner of the Internet 😊

[@simka321]

The problem that we "don't have enough community" is just the tip of iceberg. What lies beneath is that we no longer gather formally and devotedly in order to surrender our egoism for the sake the other - love of one's neighbor, they used to call it - and to the glory of God (rather than the phenomenal self).

[@Magnulus76]

Yeah... Evangelicalism reduced God to a proposition you could market as a commodity. That was the beginning of the end.

[@Mystery_G]

I must admit this turned out a lot better than anticipated and managed to increase even further my appreciation of John's developed character as exemplar of his work.

[@michaelparsons3007]

Robert was ready TO BE the example 😃 You want demonstration you’re going to have to participate 😅

[@leedufour]

Thanks John and Robert!

[@Ac-ip5hd]

Thanks for having this conversation.

[@mosesgarcia9443]

Wow! One great interview. First time Nonzero listener, Student of John Vereke. Nonzero, you got a new Sub. I loved your straight forward Questions. You remind me of them fast talking 1920's Investigating reporters that had great Intelligence, Wit, and Street Smarts . I hope you have him on again. You need to have the DEMON GUY on aka Jonathan Pageau 🤣🤣

[@michaelfleming8040]

Interesting. Especially at the beginning made me aware again that Bob has an element of arrogance, and there is an air of competition in some of his interviews. That would make sense here, because clearly they both have set themselves up to be expert leaders in similar/related areas. Vervaeke often doesn't have the same conversational "flow" as Bob,...but note that when he stops being self-conscious he has good things to say and says them with "flow" (even if he is a bit too academic).

[@FreakyBr0]

Very happy to see this crossover

[@ganeshaa23]

Hard to believe it took this long to happen

[@patrickmcmanus1360]

Psychology is just a word for "micromanaging culture and human interactions into oblivion". Is that a methodology that will bring back meaning into our lives?

[@gloriaharbin1131]

Oh yippee boy howdy! Two of my favorite people! Haven’t listened yet but looking forward to this. TY both for doing your part in helping to move humanity forward.🤗

[@PMKehoe]

Well said GH... Robert and John, great pairing!

[@patricknaughton9322]

Self help in a post Jordan Peterson world..

[@MybridWonderful]

TL;DR the unexamined life isn't work living and a corollary, the unexamined life is unexamined perspective. The answers are out there, I have them. oof!

[@carbon1479]

45:19 - For me the traditional religions aren't focused on absolute truth so much as teachings that help the community be more cooperative, ie. God as an escrow agent, and this was critical -- especially in the middle east after the bronze age collapse where it was tribe against tribe and not being defeated / assimilated required not only great military but great social cohesion. To a degree they may have only believed that they were doing this in part but more primarily trying to serve the truth, but what experience keeps hitting people with (especially NDE's, mystics, spiritual practitioners, Hermetic magicians, etc.) is that if there is supreme deity or pantheon that most evidence suggests something like panentheism, neutral or dual-action monism, perhaps idealism in the Campbell, Kastrup, or Hoffman sense, maybe even in the Wolfram sense of his ruliad and hypergraph. The thing that seems to have gotten clearer to me over time is that mysticism is less about external adaptation than inward adaptation (really in a lot of ways, particularly in a competitive culture, those internal gains are at the cost of social success and status - such as not fitting in or conforming as well, or not being as interpersonally competitive) whereas religion in the spiritual preschool sense where it's mostly about the social networking, parents meeting each other for PSR, holiday grill outs, coaching CYO sports, etc.. - to me it's more like an offering of prosocial venue with a smattering of spirituality. If you happen to be more extroverted and really enjoy the social networking aspect of religion then organized religion is great, if one's more introverted or even introverted and accentric, or polymathic, the kid who won't stop asking awkward questions about the details, that kid either tends to go atheist, neopagan, or finds his/her way into western or eastern esoteric practice because they have these engineering type minds that need what they do to be applicable to them.

[@mattray2728]

JV talk with Glenn Loury!!!!!!!! Let's Go little corner of the internet

[@sherrydionisio4306]

It is a truth, John. Bob does think a lot about Bob. Any Parrot Room patron is keenly aware of it.

[@mattray2728]

Woah

[@patrickmcmanus1360]

Progressive culture is so insane and depressing. The idea that science can help us systematize and engineer "meaning" back into our lives. Extremely depressing and unrealistic, and a vulgar misuse of science in my opinion. This hyper utilitarianism that attempted to use "logic reason and science" to give us the ideal/ optimal life and set of experiences, is now trying to undue what they've done themselves by destroying native practices in favor of psychology. The guys who broke jt probably can't fix it. Big no. I grew up in the 80s and 90s with this lunacy.

[@patrickmcmanus1360]

*undo

[@johns.7297]

Folded arms? A constant cannot explain aa variable. Is the gues an expert on body language?

[@Sampsonoff]

Say what now?

[@landphilspecter]

Constants are variables in of themselves, and whether John is an expert in body language or not isn't wholly relevant; he aptly perceived an expression of Bob's that's worth exploring.