Principles & Methods for Achieving a Flow State | Voices w/ Vervaeke | John Vervaeke & Kevin Bowers

To contact Kevin, you can email him at [e-mail]
You can find more information about Kevin's work here:
Kevin's website where you will find essays and videos on political things: northofamerica.net
Kevin's band's website (currently under construction): Holywow.ca
Conversations with Creatives: a series of conversations designed for young people who wish to build a life out of their creativity. Kevin talks to artists who have managed to pay the bills while maintaining an intimate connection to their creative impulses. (docs.google.com/document/d/1B...)
Kevin's book, Travels for the Seriously Curious, is about travel and creativity and meaning making. It can be found here: www.blurb.ca/b/5632276
Studio LC film program: lcvistudio.wixsite.com/filmfocus
That is the website that Kevin's students made and many films are there to see.
Here is the school board's information on focus programs: cdn5-ss16.sharpschool.com/Use...
Kevin is hard at work with a new project called Liminal Learning. It is a philosophical and creative program that will take 16 young people into the wilderness of Canada. The aim is to use creativity to reframe the potentials of adulthood. Please visit: liminal-learning.com/ for dates and details.

[@joshuafernandez9240]

Hey John I've noticed the thumbnails on your KZbin channel are more catchy. Keep it up!

[@HardAtWorkPainting]

Yes! Just don't be tempted to go the overly-surprised-look route.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

I feel like a more professional setup (mic, desk, curtain background) would do wonders for this channel. Not that the Skype chat laptop webcam motif doesn't have its appeal, it's just that this is not lazy conversation, so perhaps it should not look so casual? Honestly, I love the conversation, but I prefer the lecture format which reminds me of being in university.

[@OfCourseICan]

I wish I could fall in love with the world again! Hopefully these two brilliant minds will help me do so. I'm 70 in a month, so it would be a great Birthday present.

[@tensevo]

I like this, the exercise about getting to flow state is like the inversion of censorship, not only are you trying to allow free flow of ideas, but you are actively pursuing them, lovely stuff.

[@tensevo]

It makes me wonder whether people are afraid of pursing new ideas, in case we happen onto one, and stick with it. But, if we set on a different path, of continuous exploration of the ideas space, we need not worry.

[@brisingr12]

'Inversion of censorship' that's an interesting way to think about it for sure. Sounds really useful especially if you're into writing

[@OldTomato44]

This was one of my favorite conversations I've seen Vervaeke do so far - I think seeing the actual application of these ideas that have been discussed in 'this little corner of the internet' makes it all much more exciting and tangible, and makes them 'click' easier.

[@kk215487965]

While listening to this conversation, I got chils. Especially when you talked about falling in love with the world again. I really miss this feeling. Now, as I am not in that state reality feels empty. Thank you John and Kevin, for this conversation.

[@williamjmccartan8879]

Thank you both Kevin and John for letting us follow along the shared journey.

[@iwtbf48]

It is a delight to experience John moving in and out of using circling in his way of listening and exploring, as just part of conversation. Every few conversations I hear I get the sense of new iterations of his being in communication.

[@alexandrazachary.musician]

Resonating so hard right now I’m sure you can hear me booming loud n clear from Canada! ❤️‍🔥🎶🌏 Ps. Sand Talk is by Australian indigenous academic Tyson Yunkaporta.

[@lizellevanwyk5927]

"The experience of being creative" ❤Just finished R. G. Collingwood's The Principles of Art in preparation of episode 7. Also for other reasons, such a timely talk! 🔥"Everyone wants in and they all have the skills". Forwarding this to the Coven; I foresee that they will love Kevin and he will love them. One day maybe we'll play together. 😀

[@timlogan9195]

Really beautiful stuff Kevin and John! Thank you!!

[@ConsciousnessWatch]

Tremendous exploration of creativity. A blessing, thank you.

[@dalibofurnell]

Watching this again , John. Gosh I dont know if I have become more sensitive or vulnerable but this video really touches my heart and i can feel something being transferred or rising up or down in me and I dont know what that is but I feel moved. Im glad that you've continued to engage with artists. Your latest with Greg about the blues was great 👍 ❤

[@pambellefleur7588]

John! Loving the new graphics style for your thumbnail!

[@pambellefleur7588]

"don't let the judge and the artist into the same room at the same time" Amazing! This whole conversation is amazing, thank you for taking the time to have it and for sharing it publicly!

[@nathanchasse8189]

This is wonderful!! I am a college student struggling to find meaning in life and most importantly right now a direction to go in. I'm a computer science major right now and can't figure out why I'm dissatisfied/what is missing and this is really impactful. I've had a handful of moments like this, especially engaging with mathematics as a kid, but lost them somewhere along the way, and I'm for once hopeful that I could find them and even build a life around them :)

[@psynergy1756]

Thank you both. I found this really helpful. As I begin ‘contemplating’ my through the some notes I made. I am held by Kevin’s phrase “artful living”. In the spirit of playing. I notice that I prefer a very slight change, “artfully living”, or, “living artfully”. And with some poetic licence, expand, into “art fully living”. Now I am wondering, what art is like, when it can be said to be fully living ?

[@finneganmcbride6224]

Loving the new thumbnail style!

[@kathrynmcgoldrick6619]

Thank you so much John and Kevin. This was such a thrilling conversation!! Wonderful, loving and creative life living. A resounding yes!!

[@a4peace]

Rousseau’s discovery approach, Viktor Lowenfeld’s developing creative capacity were my Whack on the Side of the Head muses. “among raging fires … there it was, without a face, and it touched me.” (Poetry, Neruda) I allowed myself to trust in my abilities and learned to sense/feel/intuit answers, use haptic paths to answers. “I made my own way, deciphering that fire”. I felt there was nothing I could not learn when I aligned and resonated with an inner sacred fire. Further, as a teacher, I “educated” rather than instructed. I was doing it correctly when eyes beam, as clouds of confusion and fear disappeared in the playing attendee’s gaze-and I perceiving their visible cognitive resonance knew believing yields becoming. “And I, tiny being, drunk with the great starry void, likeness, image of mystery, felt myself a pure part of the abyss. I wheeled with the stars. …” Greatness has a rhythm, has a cadence, syncopated in such a way that it can be heard. It has a pace, a rhythm, a flow through which everything, everyone glows.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

Is that all a quote from... Neruda? Lowenfeld? Or did you just freestyle some amazing poetry to describe what it's like to be a teacher? Either way, thanks for all you do.

[@a4peace]

@@atlasfeynman1039 my-style - my deep love of real education - its a passion. The schools have it wrong. Play is the way as we dance our way to wisdom. That’s my flow. Thank you so much for noticing. I feel like YOU gave me a gift as I wa/onder in this “verse.”

[@a4peace]

@@atlasfeynman1039 What is in quotations I was ascribing to Neruda. The rest is mine. I very recently learned that the poem “Poetry” that I have put to my memory was not written by him but by one of his translators. That information really threw me as I have attached myself to it. The misunderstanding as to who is the author needs to be cleared up around the websites that hold poetry collections. I simply can’t have such a lovely poem unattached to the correct author. I will come back after a deep dive. (I will present it fully.) Looking for a copy of the original language poem started this authorship problem for me. There are a few things that felt like a translation issue. For example, “and I tiny being …” or “and I infinitesimal being …” When read with passion, I found “tiny” too small a word. I preferred the cadence and sound of “infinitesimal” almost sing it (in/fin-i-TES-i-mal).

[@atlasfeynman1039]

@@a4peace This comment deserves more likes. Honestly, you have a real talent! I don't even know who Neruda is, but you've made me want to learn about him. A translator of Neruda has to know the works of Neruda inside an out; a person like that must also be passionate and creative, so it doesn't matter whose words they are, what matters is the attachment you connect with them. They are your words now, or perhaps they belong to all of us the moment they are uttered. Even your thoughts are not your own, for they occur to YOU. You are the observer of these thoughts that occur to us all and your way with words might help us all see clearer, someday. Keep writing!

[@MarleneLaceyE]

​@@a4peace It is Neruda's poem, Poetry. Early adoption of OpenAI ChatGPT 3 produced that incorrect information. A week later, it reflects the correct poet, but incorrect poem title, confusing it with "The Word." It is early days. Eventually the system will be taught the truth. P≠NP

[@goldjacket4918]

Hi John, what you said about the current state of art really hit home. I’ve found in my work that I lean into the darkness and the cynicism. Trying to examine and critique our cultural values. It’s hard not to when it feels like everything is falling apart. But moving forward I’m trying to weave in a sense of beauty, transcendence, and the sacred into my work

[@marianmay5734]

Thank you both so much. I find the muse presence contagious, so as you went there, I followed. And oh yes to be a part of such a community tapping into this beauty, love of the world, lightness, flow is my daily dream

[@ClassicalContrarian]

Your dream is going to come true more and more. :)

[@martinchikilian]

What a great conversation. I’m looking forward to watching and listening to many more of these.

[@robertgray9599]

I like how the artist sounds like meaningful reciprocal opening and the judge sounds like reciprocal narrowing and task focused mental processes. It's really cool that this can be taught and a felt sense can be noticed. The return to it over and over across time, place, etc. reminds me of something not unlike the peaceful awareness of meditation that one can come to know. Great talk and hopefilled message about the potential in us all and the world in general!

[@gettingtogive]

What a beautiful conversation. Thank you Kevin and John🙏

[@MattAngiono]

You MUST read "Braiding Sweetgrass" by Robin Wall Kimmerer!!!!! It's one of the best books of our time, incorporating indigenous wisdom and science, specifically botany, in the most beautiful ways.... It's truly a gem, especially for anyone thinking about the environment, where we come from, the meaning and purpose of wisdom, storytelling, or tradition. I really can't sum up how amazing it is.... When you mentioned Sand Talk, I was already screaming this out inside, so it was so fitting that he mentioned it moments later.... This was truly a wonderful episode and perspective! As a long time artist, I can tell you this really landed with where I'm at in my art.... It's ALWAYS been about beauty for me, and finding the muse has never been an issue when I'm living in gratitude for the awe I witness in life, especially in nature... Flow states can be slightly harder to achieve, but with practice, it really is easy. Still, it is so valuable and such an amazing feeling that I truly appreciate you teaching a process for others to start to get it. It changes EVERYTHING! When you can get in Flow and apply it to your art, there's nothing quite like it.... You make things that will ripple out into the world and resonate in ways that are unimaginable to you currently. I still think about how things I've made even over a decade ago are still out there, helping people to appreciate the natural world and see her beauty. Knowing this can also help me when I'm feeling down about the world or myself, because I know I've left a mark that had touched people far beyond my knowledge can ever explain.... I regularly try to encourage people to find at least one creative thing they can explore, and to do it often and develop it as much as possible.... It can become a never-ending source of joy, flow, gratitude, and fulfillment, once you've taken the time to hone your craft. A lot of people hold themselves back, because we are so enmeshed by beautiful examples that we can easily feel intimidated and like there's an impossible mountain to climb before we can compete or feel good enough.... THIS IS JUST A LIE WE TELL OURSELVES! I can speak from many experiences, but an obvious example for me is guitar.... I listened to so many players that blew my mind that I never wanted to pick one up as I didn't see the point.... Then one year, I just decided to try. Now, I'm not anywhere near that level yet, but I still get immense joy out of just picking it up and jamming to a backing track, alone and just for me. There's no need to be of any defined skill level, but I'm already far better than I ever imagined, and all it took was just forgetting that cynical voice in my head and just trying.... Whatever it is that you get joy from, give it a try! There's no reason that with a little time and effort that you can't surprise yourself and turn it into something you never believed possible.... I don't know where I'll land with any of this stuff, and I'm not famous in any sort of way, but I wake up everyday just happy to be alive and having a chance to create more.... Lately, it's painting, which I was doing the whole time listening to this, and will probably play some guitar in a bit, Now that I've thought about it.... What more can we ask for in life than to find our muse and dance with her, pure joy and beauty flowing out of us like a waterfall?!?

[@memanjack]

Thanks for the comment. We have a lot in common it seems. I'll check out Sand Talk. That was new to me.

[@MattAngiono]

@kevin bowers yeah, I need to read that too! I've seen interviews with author, Tyson Yunkaporta.... they were great!

[@user-vw6xp5nl6t]

I had a friend who went to live in an indigenous community and talked about how the indigenous peoples have been romanticized in their relationship with the land etc. it’s been stereotyped and glorified by people from dominant mainstream culture because of their own disconnectedness from themselves and nature. It’s an oversimplification on their cultures complexities. People come and caricature them rather than really come to be with them. Love them

[@Laotzu.Goldbug]

Voices (in my head) with Vervaeke

[@simbabwe2907]

Something I always wanted to ask is calligraphy a psycholotechnology? The samurai had a ecology of practices that can be summarized in Budo, Zen, and shodo. I can understand Budo, and I can understand Zen. But shodo? The fact that Japanese writing system is much more symbolic intrigues me about the implications.

[@jamespercy8506]

The virtuous trojan horse of Vervaekian lexicon and grammar

[@JasenRobillard]

Really enjoyed this, and echo Kevin's description of the sparks flying off the language provided by John's framework in Awakening from the Meaning Crisis and subsequent emergences in Dialogos with others. The description of the muse and flow states of creativity absolutely mirrors my own experience. Glad teachers like Kevin exist, and another Canadian to boot!

[@memanjack]

Thanks for the kind words. Glad for the resonances.

[@Islamic777resistor]

Amazing 🤩 what a wonderful guest!

[@ElijahLogozar]

I like how you are discussing IFS! Interacting with self-organizing processes or parts is also an interest of mine. Thanks for the fresh insight!

[@jamespercy8506]

The joy beyond mere pleasure: the ecstasy of communion. Communion is the shared sense of immersion in the flow towards the inclusive open future, infused with a humility, sense of gratitude, sense of commonality and shared identity with the noblest of purposes, the deeply resonate fellowship that arises from un-othering.

[@OfCourseICan]

I'm just delving into this podcast and I'm excited. I don't know this Dude but love Vervake! I have commented on numerous neuroscientists podcasts,that most just spew out BS but Vervaeke and the Ancient Greeks got it and his "Awakening series" is a masterpiece One thing I have that very few have gotten is: the universe is alive and communicates with us. Looking forward to the show and thank you. Stay in Flow!

[@mellonglass]

Describing the third attractor, we all have it, it just needs to be remembered. Shared purpose with a guide or matriarch.

[@JiminiCrikkit]

Wonderful talk thank you for this. I was struck by Kevin's use of 'exapting' as I have thought the same. I have thought it akin in some ways to transferrable skills and the different lenses and experience that you can adopt for a multi-perspectival viewing. The arsenal of a creative is literally anything - within or without - such that a creative is making use of relevance realisation machinery as the very tool itself. or something...

[@leedufour]

Thanks Kevin and John!

[@johnvervaeke]

Thanks Lee.

[@PLERF]

Music film and creativity. John brings the best aspects of living back into the Agora. Thank You.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

You know... a peripatetic structure might be interesting, like Hiking with Kevin Nealon, with philosophy. John and guest walking around in public and contemplating as Socrates, Plato and Aristotle did... or perhaps while wrestling?

[@carolynellis134]

That was such a thoughtful discussion. I love your views on teaching. Your students are so lucky to have found you, Kevin.

[@jennasmithstudio]

Amazing and inspiring. 🥰 I needed exactly this today, and would absolutely love to be a part of one of these workshops.

[@memanjack]

Ahhh, that makes me happy indeed.

[@rachelhayden2586]

This brought to me a sense of liquid joy. You were both great. I was struck by the word “weaving” that came up, as I have come to call my own RTNAR process “the Weaving” - Weaver are we, weave are we, woven are we. ❤️

[@anthonylawton5363]

Love this podcast! Well done gents.

[@iamlovingawareness2284]

So much of the Dialogos process informs my experience as a father. I was interested to know what you thought about dialogos between young people and their parents. I know that some elements of the Dialogos would be immature. I had a thought that some part of dialogos is predialogoical/emotional, and grows in tandem with the young persons ability to articulate themselves. Forgive me if I’m being reductive, I am probably mistaken, but it made sense that emotional experiences between parents and children have the core qualities of dialogos. The quality of reciprocal opening, and the formation of a spirit greater than the sum of its parts. The conversation surrounding wisdom, optimal gripping, and RR have so much value for an experience as complex and consequential as raising children. Before I found you I’d never heard of combinatorial explosion. It was a succinct way of describing the experience of analyzing all the potential actions and consequences over the course of a child’s life. The scale of potential outcomes blows my mind, and is sometimes anxiety provoking. Sometimes it feels like a high wire balancing act. The consequences weigh so heavily on me. From how you described it, that sounds like agape to me. Doing that balancing act, as difficult as it is, to bring a persons selfhood to fruition. I find PVKs description of “the spirit of the family” fits in well with this. Thank you so much John. This was such a helpful discussion.

[@Bolden47]

I visually see creativity as a bridge between abstract concepts or set of ideas. It’s hard in the moment but when you look back you realize “oh I just created a thread between those two concepts or simple ideas and alchemized it”

[@MattAngiono]

That's definitely a great way of looking at it.... But what's truly amazing is when it comes subconsciously without you even being able to identify it. That's the real muse at work! In retrospect, you can probably analyze it and see some threads connecting, but there's really no need. In essence, we are always combining ideas and copying from a multitude of influences, and we really can't do anything but make something unique, unless we are trying to do the opposite.... At least that's what I've found in my own art and style. It's worth copying while we are trying to build skill, but the second we inject just an ounce of our individual tastes, it becomes something new! There's nothing better for an artist than to have someone tell you they can recognize your work without ever seeing your name.... then you know you have something going for you!

[@LaymansPursuit]

That's definitely as aspect for sure. I also think that it's stuff that's been.... "percolating" below consciousness, and the moment it comes to you in thought is the moment that it's done cooking and you've opened up to receive it. I also think there's an enactive element to creativity too. Creativity is an impulse to take that alchemical conceptual stuff and create it.

[@billy8291]

At one point while listening I had this urge to just do it. Just do the non-judgemental writing thing. It absolutely worked. Here's the kind-of-gibberish-but-kind-of-not result The walk comes slowly along beautifully. I love it more than I could say or hear or write. Alone and alone when I am alone but together with you all through my device. And I devise something that might seem to you or to me. Wild. When wilds were we

[@brisingr12]

Good job billy. Its true, how cynical I have grown with time and I am still young. I am used to writing nasty comments because there is so much cynism in me, an anger at things not being right. But this comment isn't cynical.

[@memanjack]

Ohhh, I love that flow!

[@pipeline732]

What a beautiful conversation. And on the trust part of the creative process I just, via one of the swedish words for 'trust' (the one I'd choose to use in this context), came to realize that 'trust' is etymologically related to (the germanic word for) consolation and comfort. Now, isn't _that_ beautiful? (In my experience extremely intense forms of creativity and staying in pain until it's basically your friend are very close phenomenologically, the latter just being a more "passive"or perhaps unproductive, but also more "consoling", version of the former.) Thank you!

[@jgarciajr82]

Very fruitful 🍓

[@matthewpowell3780]

This is so cool! Kevin and “I” - seemed to be more than me - participated in the same weekend long circling session that you (John), Guy, and Christopher led in July. Hope all is well with you both, excited to hear where this goes.

[@Fawnshell]

I write almost every day and over time I've realized what happens when I get into my flow state and how I get into it (roughly speaking), 1st I think you need a repeated understanding (if it's music play the melody over and over while pausing in between for reflection and bring forth who you are or what you think you represent into an action sequence), let the unconscious take over (be the thing that you want to bring into being like a child does with toys), don't think outside of desired subject area, you want to remove the noise around you. I think you can achieve a better flow state being alone.

[@kractopus7383]

John, I love your work. It helped me a lot in orienting myself in the world. I just have one request: I feel like sometimes the words you use are very technical, and needs a bit of digging to understand what you mean. It would be great if you could try to explain things in simpler ways.

[@TheWizaard]

I think one's muse is a composite of one's own deep sets of desires and idiosyncrasies of personality that coalesce into some strange being that you sense or project when you enter the flow state. My own really pops when I think I've found, in my idiosyncratic arrogances, what I think is a truth or perspective that I feel the world could find useful as something that could decrease its self-deception and bring it closer to fulfillment. I'd be interested to hear how it manifests for everyone else based on who they are!

[@emilsundbaum5221]

Where can i see more content with Kevin? I searched his name on youtube but had trouble finding something with. Lots of folks with his name doing stuff.

[@jerehaw]

It is interesting to focus on what you are trying to achieve with the flow state. In regards to say, the natives in touch with nature being conquered by greedy colonialists, brings up the issue of how does the idea of what is required for anything to be a going concern - namely the acquisition of money - blocking or mixing with the ideals of the flow state.

[@Dino_Medici]

0:37 hahahah LOVE IT

[@dalibofurnell]

Its true youve gotta respect it. Like the ocean and in the ocean you wait and the go for the optimal wave to paddle into carefully and then begin to go with the wave and it takes you, you stand up and begin to surf keeping yourself in balance and at one with nature taking you with its flow. As your in the water you're connected with both eb and flow and its vast and yet you are in it and you only do this and wave by wave the exuberance of the feeling fills you and you feel washed and clean and refreshed. You need skill to enhance the experience and i suppose also an understanding of nature and the ocean , how to read it and how to interact with it and how to know when its time to ride out all the way back to shore. Balance is key. Also you should really check out the artist, Tash Sultana , she does most if not all of her work in the flow state. She's on KZbin, I reccomend engaging in a live show or a home studio session or a busk. I think both of you might find her interesting . Just listening to her I can catch onto a slightly different yet congruent state of flow. I find that the editing process that you mention definitely helps aid the discovery of new perspective in the creative process, I love how you engage in play as well and then developing to a point where you get that final sweet spot aaaaah where everything comes together and you just know its complete and full or fulfilled. Thank you both for sparking passion in me at 5h30 in the morning just after the birds announced the day. I like the word entrustment too. I find that to be very interesting and intriguing. Man I wish you could have talked to my mom, she was an artist, and an art teacher and she ran workshops, if only she could have shared her philosophy, she had a knack for evoking joie de vivre. Also thank you for the inspiration I designed a logo whilst you were conversing.

[@memanjack]

What sweet words. Glad you connected. Sounds like you had a cool mom.

[@dalibofurnell]

​@memanjack yeah, she was. I have been making art again lately and realized that one of my muses is her , which includes love and depth and intense creativity but freedom and no pretense and a sense of care and fondness and gentleness with time not being a pressure.

[@allenwarren1269]

00:00-01:00 And what's the difference between that and the integrity between word and deed.

[@memanjack]

I believe and pursue the idea that the flow achieved with words in a creative process is reframable into the world of deeds and actions and is part of the machinery we can master in the pursuit of art-full living. That's the game I'm playing. So, what is the difference? The forms and materials, but not the dynamics and playfulness. Thanks for helping me think. Cheers

[@ElenaRoche]

Anyone can tell where I can see Kevin Bowers' artwork? He says he is an artist and teacher, but what's his art like, because to me art speaks louder and clearer than the artist? What are the fruits of his creative moments? By the fruit you will judge them.

[@DragonNo1]

This conversation has many high points but also a few low points. As a Fine Artist (Graduate from OCAD) I find the present state of the arts, whether in Canada or the world as a wasteland dominated by BS. I say BS because real artists don't have or have very little space in galleries and museum these days. Contemporary art (mostly VIP art- Video/ Installation/ Performance) is a fraud that profited from eliminating the concept of beauty from the cultural scene of everywhere, but not totally. It's the illegitimate child of postmodernism and an epidemic of narcissism. It's self-referential and disconnected of the human experience at the most primal level. The concepts of true, beauty and good are absent of contemporary art except in the form of raising questions but not providing answers to anything. That is, it's an epistemologically destructive art, which needs of 99% of curatorial practice. It needs a confused or an indifferent society to be able to stand out in the market place and to fill galleries and museums. It is art that needs of extensive propositional statements (BS) to make its way to second-handers with big pockets. In my view, this is a very left-brained manifestation of something that cannot be called art; or it's faked art produced by "the judge" (as Kevin calls it), or should I call it "rulings by magistrates" based on BS? In listening to Kevin, I got the impression that although exercising creativity is good, what remains unclear to me from this conversation is the concept of framing of what it is being created. We artists always work within the boundaries of what we know and the relevant realizations (RR) we arrive during the process of creation. In that regard, not all RR realizations by the artist become art, especially in an environment where the good, the true and the beautiful are conveniently ignored, or has no chance to emerge from the practice of creativity. The process of creating art always clashes with the constraining walls of beliefs. From this conversation I got the idea that Kevin doesn't bump against the concept of beauty because it is somehow in conflict with his political views, or that his political views disable to some degree what he considers beautiful. This is why art is a very complex process that requires the cultivation of wisdom. And I question the concept that everyone is creative. You don't need to go too far to discover that there's a significant proportion of the "so-called artists" that by their own will comply with the accepted standards of the establishment related to contemporary art, or remain willfully and conveniently ignorant of the challenges to these prevalent views on contemporary art. It comes to my mind a phrase of Picasso related to this issue: "I'm not against tradition, but against convention." And the "conventional" emerges from a poorly educated "judge." With regard to the connection with nature of the aboriginals and their assigned wisdom, I find it is a cliché adopted by apologetic "white men and women." No doubt that our human history is full of peoples that suffered genocidal abuse. Some of us in the West are interested to learn about the wisdom emerging from not only the aboriginals but from different cultures. It's a privilege that the Western culture brought us amid all of our contradictions, but I refuse to live with undeserved guilt because guilt is one of the destroyers of consciousness, and I need my consciousness to reach RRs that serve my art. The issue for the world right now is an over emphasis on propositional knowledge without allowing the other legs of knowledge to grow. That is, an over dependence on our left brain is channeling us to stagnation and ignorance, and the death of creativity. And this is quite obvious when looking at VIP art. Finally, thank you Prof. Vervaeke for your lectures and videos because your concepts and language connect deeply with my personal experience as an artist. As with Kevin, I can find the words that describe accurately the processes I go through in my search for meaning, and the creation of artwork.

[@kulturindustry]

46 - re the comment on art by John. I think a lot of artists (a lot that have media attention) are trying to "get attention" or "make money" and I think this is why people feel negatively toward this art. Art made for the purpose of "getting attention" or "making money" is bound to be problematic as it seems at odds with art that must be made because it must be made. Additionally, I think a lot of the meaning crisis leaves many people, including artists, in a dark place, and thus their art is likely to be disillusioned and ugly and distorted, expressing that inner pain with the world that is not meeting their needs. Also, the institutions themselves, in general, are teaching a canon that is still very stuck in the modern postmodern frame. these are generalizations, of course. And, of course, there are also amazing artists doing amazing work even now that really celebrate love of the world and beauty.

[@karimchaya2432]

👏👏👏👏

[@StephanieMoDavis]

Get your relationships and hearts on board first....

[@Bolden47]

I think “Meaning Making” is the wrong term.. it’s more of purpose discovery.. meaning leads to religious ideology, purpose leads to action and satisfaction

[@wehsee912]

🌚☄️❤️💫

[@ElenaRoche]

Kevin Bowers' quote "So as we protest racism, and police brutality, and white supremacy, and all of the sick particulars that immediately and rightfully come to mind having watched George Floyd’s murder, we need to zoom out and recognize that that particular psycopathic cop is a stand in for our culture, our institutions, our world view, our economy and they all have their knees on our necks. And that is one hell of a good reason to fight." Anyone sees anything wrong here in light of what Kevin said in this interview?

[@GrimGriz]

Anyone else have the impulse to look up some "St. Elmo" fella?

[@_ARCATEC_]

A Subjective medium of kaleidoscopic a-priori Reason, reflects through Beauties lens and holds with pure shape the vision of an Objective Mind. SRB² MO² •X (s z Rqb(mo) Z (OM)BQr z S) Y•

[@projectmalus]

Very nice thank you.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

eh?

[@_ARCATEC_]

I'm happy to leave the eNds fuzzy, for me anything beyond Humanity is excess.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

Norbit.... Zzzorbit... Hounddog.

[@atlasfeynman1039]

I feel like a more professional setup (mic, desk, curtain background) would do wonders for this channel. Not that the Skype chat laptop webcam motif doesn't have its appeal, it's just that this is not lazy conversation, so perhaps it should not look so casual?

[@ekrrundberg3208]

Why don’t you just use the word inspiration ?