You've Been Building Basements Wrong All Along!

[@wjthehomebuilder]

I just came across his channel last week. He sure has a calm demeanor when explaining things.

[@ShitWrangler]

The anti-thesis of Ontario man on the jobsite. Usually blurry eyed and seeing red, Satan's choice on the job and at the bar.

[@marcfavell]

They say that if someone stays calm while explaining things, never raising their voice or getting mad, you should be cautious. I mean, these are the types who could politely break your neck, dispose of the body, and still have time to bake cookies for the neighborhood watch. And the best part? They’d get away with it-because, let's be honest, who suspects the person who always keeps their cool? 🙃🫶🇨🇦🍀

[@wjthehomebuilder]

@marcfavell I call it someone in control of their emotions. Yes, quite the Virtue these days. 😊

[@mikewithers299]

This is eye-opening stuff here. I started framing in the '80's and got out of it 20 years later due to injuries. Being that Florida is a very "wet state" concrete rules here. Basements are non existent is residential as the water table is so close to ground level. In NY where I grew up, everyone had them to keep the foundation below frost level. I got to research this gravel type floor some more. I'm assuming the "block walls" are Styrofoam filled with concrete? I did see a couple of those down here in recent years. Great video Awesome Framers crew.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

Look at thermomass CIP and stay away from ICF. Way better wall, costs less and performs better.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Here is more of the explanation of the foundation kzbin.info/www/bejne/Y6vZdpqVoZ2VjdE

[@mikewithers299]

@@AwesomeFramers thank you for the link. I will check this out ❤️

[@DmacJitsu]

i love that chalk line stud height trick

[@steveharkins279]

Would like to see an entire video dedicated to the “strongback”, nobody talks about a thing that can double the strength of a floor or sheer wall, and make them straight as an arrow. Take that 2 x6 twin strongback in this video, my problem is in regular lumber one can’t go past 26 feet. But if you take a schedule 80 2 in pipe one can get to 40 feet of distance through 3 inch drilled holes at the bottom of the joists, with Canadian self tappers through the bottom of the I joist. That does so many things at once, room for mechanicals/try and twist a circle “of schedule 80” (good luck with that), it goes “lateral” & “vertical” strength. But good luck explaining that to a building inspector. It is the same math that there is a 3 inch pipe connecting the back of the arms of any good skid steer.

[@AwesomeFramers]

I'm not sure a "strongback can double the strength of a floor or shear wall". Any chance you have a reference that explains it?

[@old2470]

Very interesting and as long as you tested the compaction of the granular before starting to install the insulation, I see no problem. In long run there might be some small differences between the way the soil is compressed under the footing vs under the "non-concrete slab" but not important as long the soil report was allowing for this approach.

[@criticalevent]

I've done foam over sand in a gravel basement just because there was no way to get concrete in besides cutting a hole in the house and we didn't have the money. It seemed fine for the years we lived there.

[@marcfavell]

Many people don’t realize that, even today, dirt floors are still more common worldwide than tiled or finished floors. The use of decoupling layers under tile actually began with the ancient Romans, who were the first to separate tiles from their structural base, a method that helped manage movement and prevent cracking. Remarkably, some of these Roman tiles have survived to this day. Modern products like Ditra mats by schluter systems are based on this same principle; they provide a lightweight, more efficient way of creating a similar decoupling layer, using advanced materials that make installation easier and more durable. 🇨🇦🍀

[@mwrcrft]

35 years ago Wood below ground foundation/basement walls was a thing set on gravel ,like superior concrete wall are now. The option was to install wood construction floor or slab. This was NW Ohio.

[@pcatful]

There are still wood foundation codes. Of course the applicability depends on the site.

[@waynebrazeau855]

Great work explaining important details!!!👍

[@Factory400]

I am an engineer that is designing electronic environment monitors that are intended to be embedded into my basement remodel. They are remotely powered and low cost enough that I can put them at any point that could have trouble in the future. The remodel is being done because of water ingress that simply destroyed everything over many years. This is just the latest water damage that I have dealt with over the years of home ownership and I am done. I REALLY wanted an early warning system that can alert me to problems well ahead of major damage. My new sensors will go in shower pans, toilet bases, roof penetrations, ext wall penetrations, roof valleys, window sils....pretty much everywhere that water is likely to do its thing.

[@mojodojo5533]

I was under the impression that the slab helps keep the bottom of the foundation wall from wanting to kick out. Thanks in advance for an explanation.

[@steveharkins279]

That guy is wearing my “Keen” boots… I like them best with “Propet” orthotic insoles…

[@alanmeyers3957]

My problem with keens is that I can’t get more than a month and a half out of them.

[@Frankreddy62]

@@alanmeyers3957 Try the American Made ones. I can get a year out of mine.

[@dwightsmith5174]

Looks great. Wish I could afford a million dollar plus, custom home!!

[@chornii_boumer7324]

19:39 Talking about products. What is your take on Weyerhaeuser Edge Gold™ panels. That’s the brand I installed here in Kelowna, BC. It also has a 200 days no sanding.

[@katkilr7685]

The houses were built over 100 yrs ago still standing and doing good. Then people said this is a better idea, this is a new material. And in 50 years they are junk. 😂 I would need a lot more information on this system because I have my duets .

[@h2s-i9o]

Retrofitting should be a certificate. You dont have aerospace engineers come out to witness landing gear changes or engine mount hardware installations. I was a 21 yearold marine signing off QA inspections on $70 mil aircraft which are basically PE inspections but 100% not 70%

[@BK-fy2xi]

I have seen a couple of slab less slab videos now and am very interested in the concept. I don’t understand how you frame the interior walls though. What does it sit on?

[@sparksmcgee6641]

If it's not load bearing they go anywhere. Even foam is strong enough for load bearing in many situations 30 to 150 psi foam can carry a sqare foot for each inch

[@Dsanrides]

This is a highly fascinating concept. Do you know though, how is the site graded, what fill material, how much compaction to prevent sinking long term? Also, being on the Atlantic, if water ever tunnels under the foundation during a flood, is there any kind of drainage path?

[@danielswan7320]

If it’s cheaper & better perhaps some builders will do it this way.I’m not seeing it done were I live; cost to repair might be an issue if flooding is considered. How long to get a flooded system repaired?

[@mr702s]

Benefit of metal webbing over wood? Engineering wise?

[@salimufari]

16:35 couldn't agree more with this prospective.

[@Kristopherwong]

Can someone post the engineering drawing for this floor? I’d love to see it!

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@Kristopherwong youtube.com/@stevenbaczekarchitect9431?feature=shared

[@helmanfrow]

Can they not hook that sensor up to an external power supply?

[@dadiesel44]

So the studs go down to the concrete footer and the insulation is above that. Won’t those penetrations through the insulation sweat and rot out that wood?

[@user-bz9gs6ny4i]

Tin can beam struts with 2x4 frame gross man I do however love the rock layering underneath the floor its a great idea.

[@tableshaper4076]

This is an honest question, what happens in 100 years or sooner when the foam underlay begins to degrade??? A high strength concrete slab can last 4-500 years, I don't understand the logic of building on a foundation that is going to deteriorate faster than the framing. I'm going insane on just finding actual proof and facts on how long buried rigid insulation lasts, the manufactures suggest a range from 50-80 years, how is that environmentally sound compared to concrete?

[@baptistlion4060]

Not much different then foam beneath concrete that everyone does in cold climates

[@tealkerberus748]

Concrete will only last that long if it's made with non-ferrous reinforcing. If you've got steel in your concrete, expect it to fail when enough moisture gets to the steel to start it rusting. Foam under concrete should last longer, because it's not bearing any load once the concrete is cured - the concrete has beams down to the dirt and the slab bridges from one beam to the next. And once the foam fails from biochem or water or whatever, it's going to leave air voids under the concrete that will still give some insulation. The foam in this vid is load bearing. Every step someone walks on it is going to help physically degrade it a tiny bit, so a hundred years later I wouldn't expect it to look like it did at installation. So it depends. Are you building for 50-80 years, or are you building for 500-800 years? If the second, this foam wouldn't be okay, but neither would steel-reinforced concrete. If the first, this foam will do the job.

[@tableshaper4076]

@@tealkerberus748 Sorry but what you said is all wrong, I don't want to explain why but you need to do more research.

[@stevenmiller6725]

No deficiency takes place for the first 100 years of buried polystyrene board. That's their guess. Might last 200 or 300 Yeats. They don't really know

[@tableshaper4076]

@@stevenmiller6725 Sorry but EVERYTHING is degrading from day 1. Nothing on earth last 100 years and then and only then starts to breakdown. Concrete CAN last 500 years but from day 1 it is breaking down.

[@amacot656]

Do the slabless basement floor move more than a concret slab? also, if you need a recess in your floor, how you do it in that kind of floor?

[@AwesomeFramers]

@Aron_Jones_Carpenter can answer better than me

[@amacot656]

@Aron_Jones_Carpenter Do you have an answer or guide me to some ducumentation on the subject?

[@allanwalli2935]

Glenfarclas rocks! And 25 yr old. Nice!

[@gallowaylights]

I'm nervous of rodents burrowing under that. I feel safer with some kind of rat barrier 😮

[@theJonnymac]

ok, so where are the rats coming from. Outside the building? If there is a slab, and they can't get through, they'll chew a hole right in the side of the building. So if they are that bad, whole house needs to be concrete. the reality is most basements have a concrete floor because people don't spent the time and effort to waterproof their building properly. And they live with the damp concrete basement.

[@gallowaylights]

@theJonnymac * Yep! Was years before I learned concrete isn't waterproof 😫

[@sparksmcgee6641]

Two feet of rock isn't a roden barrier in your world?

[@sparksmcgee6641]

​@gallowaylights If you make it right it is. Pouring Xypex next week on my place.

[@gallowaylights]

@sparksmcgee6641 * making a video I hope!🫠

[@marcemarc6516]

Different ways to skin a cat. Im sure it’s softer on the feet at the very least. I’m curious about the long term moisture of the floor from the top down. Such as if that floor does get wet from a broken pipe are you tearing most of it out? That being said I’m willing to bet it’s next to nothing on the moisture front and building because of worst case scenario rebuild isn’t smart in anyway. Definitely a cleaver way to build out a basement slab without concrete

[@marcemarc6516]

Just saw the moisture sensor being placed in the floor, guess that answer that 😂😂😂😂

[@2chipped]

​@marcemarc6516 Actually, it answered absolutely nothing. It is an empty swimming pool and can fill up with a leak from above. Am not disparaging the assembly at all, however there are risks vs rewards for every assembly available.

[@rixtrix11]

​, moisture sensor can't predict or stop a leak. The wood will still get wet.

[@steveharkins279]

Big “strongback” fan, just doubles rigidity on floors decks,etc.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Does it "doubles rigidity on floors decks,etc." According to this explanation, it just serves to dampen vibration as Aron said, it doesn't not increase the span of the joist www.openjoisttriforce.com/advantages-install-strongbacks-open-web-floor-system/

[@DavidNelson42]

serious question, is styrofoam "better" for the environment than cement?

[@FelixRusu]

Slabless slab, the awesome path to permanent mold the first time you have a water/leak accident.

[@danwhitehead4913]

I know if you get wood wet and it can't dry it will rot . What if the dishwasher or a tub leaks and water flows down hill and penetrates down to the plastic.

[@AwesomeFramers]

shop vac it and run fans just like we do all all floors over a crawl space 👍

[@8eSix]

What about Radon? No cove or expansion joints to worry about with this setup. My guess is, radon isn't an issue, but I'd be curious to see if the vapor barrier is enough to keep it from seeping in.

[@johnhaller5851]

They put a pipe through the membrane for radon. I believe they called it for soil gasses.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

It's a radon barrier.

[@dustinmarquand5301]

I'm pretty sure concrete does almost nothing as a radon barrier. It's the poly that traps the gas.

[@MichaelJ674]

Aron mentions in the video but didn’t give any details, probably because it’s a standard detail in much of the US and Canada (the vent pipe @johnhaller5851 refers to above).

[@rabbytca]

The layer of poly is both an air and vapour barrier which is used in both slab configurations against Radon. The difference being in a concrete slab arrangement the poly is not generally protected between two slabs of foam so it is more likely to develop mechanical damage while resting on stray pieces of aggregate. The aggregate is vented in the usual manner.

[@TheJeof1000]

how do you take care of termites?

[@sparksmcgee6641]

You dont😊 VA doesn't allow ICF for that reason. They're making them with chemicals I heard. Ithink ICF is the biggest rip off of my generation in construction. So much better for so much less out there.

[@revophoto9037]

Prob. no termites that far north.

[@stoveguy2133]

Cole the cornstar likes beefy basements

[@badawesome]

Can I put radiant heat in slabless?

[@baptistlion4060]

yes, staple pex to the foam. Then all the sand acts as a radiant mass that will stay warm for days

[@MichaelJ674]

@@baptistlion4060 Please explain. Stapling in PEX leaves you a floor that’s no longer flat. Seems like you’d either have to cut it in with a hot knife (extremely labor intensive) or pour a leveling slab in which case it would no longer be a slabless slab. Thanks.

[@rabbytca]

@@MichaelJ674 The tubing doesn't sit on top. You order foam slabs that have tubing groves already present.

[@MichaelJ674]

Ah, got it. Thanks for the explanation!

[@steveharkins279]

The problem with “simpson” math is it runs out at 42 feet, current semi’s can deliver 53 feet in flatbed. “ logistics”.

[@mariokajin]

The one thing that a reinforced concrete slab have on the non slab floor is resistance to rodents. The rest if treated properly is same.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

Rock under it takes care of that. Go listen to the build up again

[@mariokajin]

@@sparksmcgee6641 By personal experience I can guarantee you that even a steel reinforced concrete barely resists rodents. Crushed rock is great for nesting.

[@MichaelJ674]

@@mariokajin Aron: “A statement without data is just an opinion.” With all due respect, I am highly skeptical of your claim in the absence of any proof.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

@mariokajin You don't understand what you're looking at? Where is the rodent moving the gravel to make the gap it's going to live in? Thousands of pounds on top of compacted rock doesn't leave anywhere to put the rock it's digging out. 30% fluf makes it impossible even if it starts outside and goes 9' down under the footer for no reason.

[@BryanL1982]

Sounds like Ricky mixed with Julian.

[@johnhaller5851]

How does it work having a sponsored video filmed in Canada? Do you need a work visa? Or is that a question best not asked? In my trips to Canada for work, we could attend meetongs, but couldn't do anything productive.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Did we do anything productive? 🙂 The question came up at the border for the film crew and they were let through after 3 hours of explanation and a letter.

[@theJonnymac]

I'm here for the click bait 🤣

[@freestatehomestead]

😂😂😂

[@pcatful]

One thing. It won't crack. It has joints but none of them go through.

[@girich5473]

I like to know what if a house is built in an area like Florida were the ground is sand and when we get about three days of rain and the ground of so saturated my lawn is underwater. And I'm am not in a flood zone. I don't like slab houses. I would at least like to have post and beam crawl space. Better with a basement. Haven't seen around here. So I don't your method would work here.

[@tealkerberus748]

I don't think there's any way of building houses in the world that is good for building a house anywhere in the world. You've got to do what works in your climate and ecosystem.

[@timbrown9305]

Those trusses have no rim joist!!!! If you want a deck on the house you better look at the requirements. Pain in the butt. And to add later after construction??? better do a complete free standing deck! The sensors are fantastic... should put everywhere.

[@steveharkins279]

If we could “break all boundaries’ of all building/engineering codes in distance wood “with” steel, i,m all in.

[@AwesomeFramers]

I don't understand what you're saying, can you explain it. I'm not being snarky, I geniunely missed the point. I also had a sleep score of 50 so its definitely me

[@steveharkins279]

Sorry bout that last one, friend brought over Kettle One, and it got the best of me.

[@jeffgarner3178]

Termites? Maybe in Canada Not in the south!

[@-_-----]

We gotta stop building homes out of garbage 💀

[@curt2742]

So it's a shed.

[@fred4547]

😎

[@BWIL2515]

If a repair was needed man I dunno it seems labor intensive I guess if you had to hmmm

[@baptistlion4060]

easier than concrete to tear out with a jackhammer this you just / cut and dig out sand

[@truthseeker-v4l]

so no concrete...just 2 feet of rocks and crush run....bfd

[@dlg5485]

The comedy reel was pretty funny

[@justincrasi4638]

I suspect the slab-less basement was done for non-financial reasons bc the ICF and advantech flooring could have been omitted to save money.

[@baptistlion4060]

What would you think could work other than advantech? There are videos of advantech being in water for like 8 yrs and no swelling

[@justincrasi4638]

@@baptistlion4060 I think this design will probably work just fine, I just don't think it is actually accomplishing very much. If the basement is 1,000sf and there are 2 layers of Advantech in the basement that's 32 sheets per layer @$55 each is $3,500 in subfloor + $1,000 in labor you're at $4,500. If everything below the Advantech is kept the same i.e. insulation plastic etc, the concrete slab material and labor is about $5/sf, so $5,000. That's just a $500 savings to omit concrete. Additionally if the ICF was replaced with formed concrete walls and just sheets of foam, that would save thousands of dollars as well. The slab-less floor is an interesting idea, I just don't know if it's actually any better.

[@MichaelJ674]

Doesn’t sound like you are familiar with the performance advantages of ICF and Advantech. Lowest cost rarely translates to best value. Aron explains his reasons for using Advantech that he wouldn’t have been able to achieve with commodity OSB or plywood. I suspect the same is true of the ICF approach over more conventional approaches to achieving a high-performance basement wall assembly. Aron is a pretty smart dude; you can see and hear that he thought this out pretty thoroughly (in collaboration with Steve B.).

[@justincrasi4638]

@@MichaelJ674 For sure 👍 I'm not a huge fan of commenting on posts, I made my case enough. Thanks

[@MichaelJ674]

I appreciate the dialogue.

[@guidedbyvoices23]

..not a 16th of an inch..an 8th of an inch

[@sailingwiththegods538]

I get the premise and thinking of going with less concrete, but we all know how subfloors can swell and bow. Advantech is great stuff at resisting moisture. It's still made of wood though and relying on plastic to never get any perforations over the life of a house is a tall order. I just can't see how these floors will stand up over time. I hope they do, time will tell.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

You need to spend more learning about products before commenting. There's a guy in Montana that put a piece of Advantech in a bucket of water in his back yard and did a video of it each year. Last one I saw was 8 years. No expansion

[@AwesomeFramers]

Since the floor was installed after the house was dried in, I don't see how the floor would ever see enough moisture to have an issue.

[@MichaelJ674]

@@AwesomeFramers Agree 100%.

[@gibsonbuilds4841]

I hear everything you are saying. But one plumbing leak, minor wall leak, door or windows left open, roof problems, you have trouble! To take that apart ro search for water .... sounds brutal. Not worth it in my opinion.

[@danglin69]

Agreed...

[@tealkerberus748]

Agreed, but I think it's informative to see how other people build houses. I'm thinking, if you wanted a floor that was soft underfoot, it would be interesting to put that foam on top of the slab instead of underneath. I'm not sure that I'd try it in my home because I'm Australian and we're kind of hyper-vigilant about what happens if something catches fire, but it's an interesting thought experiment.

[@rixtrix11]

I fail to see what is gained by "saving a little concrete"? All that foam is made from a non-sustainable product, too. I also don't see how a solid flat floor lasting decades can be achieved, as there aren't "facts" supporying this new technology over decades. The way this guy talks, he should be a politician- smooth, calm demeanor with just enough evidence given to sound credible.y

[@demomandan8087]

Your not doing this in Canada

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@demomandan8087 yes, this IS in Canada

[@tommooe4524]

Leave out the concrete…..more “value Engineering in building breeder boxes “ by schitt builders

[@TheJttv]

Im confused. If you have a lot of water in the soil wouldnt the foam floor just lift up?

[@akdoug6437]

If there is that much water getting under the building envelope you have far bigger problems than the foam "floating". You missed the part about the 2' of engineered crushed rock under the slab, and I guarantee they have a proper drainage system channeling water away from the foundation wall.

[@sparksmcgee6641]

????? No

[@MichaelJ674]

Concrete slabs lift almost as readily as this slabless floor assembly if hydrostatic pressure is present and not accounted for.

[@lotterylottery2984]

Rerun for most of the video.

[@AwesomeFramers]

Nope, but kind of. Thing about KZbin is, not that many people watch all the videos

[@erictheguy6646]

Nahhh.

Concrete one n done…too much time n labor. Not to mention concrete is used to prevent the bottom of the foundation from kicking in when backfilled. Also if u require a sump pump that means u have drainage issues which will destroy a wood floor not to mention mold issues. Just b/c u put plastic down with tape doesn’t mean water can’t penetrate through the above layer. If it ain’t broke stop trying to fix it 🙄 35 year contractor here.

[@AwesomeFramers]

35 year contractor? Wow you must know everything. Aron is a 38 year and I'm a 36 year, so I guess we win?

[@mojodojo5533]

I was thinking same thing on wall kick out. Looking for an explanation.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@@mojodojo5533 Wall kick out? I don't understand how a properly designed footing with steel reinforcement will "kick out". It doesn't with retaining walls. The slab in basement homes isn't strutural and just floats on the dirt according to our engineer.

[@jybuis3939]

Steve Baczek is in danger of stroking out, dude needs to get on a program before he croaks.

[@MichaelJ674]

None of your business. His health status is between him and his doctor.

[@jeremyjenks]

hard pass

[@baptistlion4060]

Easier on the joints than concrete.

[@danglin69]

All this foam will be dust in 30-40 years.. Now what?

[@morgannrussell5690]

I didnt enjoy your video. I just thought Id let you know. While I am familiar with all the trades mentioned I did not understand what you were talking about. And wwhere is the concrete slab part?? I gave up. My attention span spent 4:55 and called it a waste of time. Sorry. ]

[@gabegarrett4878]

Is there any one working on an ICF that doesn’t require concrete? I’m surprised something hasn’t came out that you could fill them with sand or another aggregate.

[@MichaelJ674]

How would you meet lateral structural load requirements for wind and/or seismic forces? I’m not even sure the ICF and sand would adequately handle gravity loads.

[@rabbytca]

Look up SIPs and envision them with subgrade treated wood. You now have a building with an insulated wood foundation.

[@Jason-cm6uh]

Not a basement.

[@AwesomeFramers]

yep, this is a basement

[@Jason-cm6uh]

@AwesomeFramers In Idaho, we call that a half basement. There is only one wall below grade. A basement has all exterior walls below grade.

[@AwesomeFramers]

@Jason-cm6uh cool! They are called "walk out basements" or daylight basements". Google it 👍

[@WASKEEN]

First time seeing a person fortnite emote on a roof