Subtlety Levelling Explained Further (WoW Classic)

[@andrewkim6271]

this guide is actually making the good point.. I did all the green quests and I also joined STV when I was 35~36

[@MetaGoblin]

I actually specced slightly into sub with my build but only to get ghostly strike and it worked it pretty well. Also just generally made the gameplay more interesting because I had an extra ability.

[@freddiet8639]

There is an extra button in combat aswell after 5 point in parry cant remember name but thats the route i went to lvl, it hits as hard backstab and procs a lot, also only costs 10 energy

[@BobbyFlay14]

@@freddiet8639riposte

[@mr.mikaeel6264]

@@freddiet8639riposte, it’s rng on parry tho. But the proc is pretty good even if you dont have more then the +5% parry from talent.

[@faisalalsharaf5823]

Man I've switched from combat to sub to assassination to sub and finally back to combat after your video last week. My gold suffered greatly but honestly trying out different builds have been really fun. Thanks for the enlightenment :D

[@JoseMGonz-ib4rh]

Loving this Azamous, made a rogue currently at level 28, has been pretty good, hitting 450 ambush crits, also thanks for the macro it works really well, i just made a few adjustments so i can swap my main hand to my off hand and equip a sword on main hand to spam sinister strike.

[@JoseMGonz-ib4rh]

Since i couldn't get a hold of prison shank to save my life, i had to buy of Talon of Vultros from the AH , 5 gs, is there another good dagger around this level that you know???

[@blech71]

I had a buddy that swore by this back in the day and those old school Tarren Mill /Southshore battles were very fun seeing him just now people over and almost never die unless he got focused

[@DStrong.]

holy frick as a brand new player to wow this was exactly what i was looking for. every other guide seems to assume youve been playing the game for over a decade. ty so much. i will be going through all of your vids and liking every single one of them. you da best

[@FocusedWALK]

Absolutely love that you made a video that basically could classify us as twins. This spec in your video is 99% what I do while lvling in vanilla and now in classic. Stumbled on you video while bored at work. Cheers mate, glad someone is leading the community on rogue right.

[@Azamous]

Really appreciate comments like this. Glad to see other people found the spec even without my assistance, just shows we're on the same kind of 'wavelength' in regards to playstyle. Have a good one mate.

[@TheSmilodon78]

You’re so right i have been questing in tanaris and farming ZF as a rogue lvl 52 and it has been a real help i xp from 46 to 53 and im at 410 gold i bought my devilsaur set at lvl 51

[@Azamous]

I'm sincerely and honestly glad that I could help you, it's nice to see.

[@jarlfisk]

How what ?

[@gororx5476]

You’re right, I’m doing the same with my rogue, during vanilla I leveled as sub, and was going to lower quests, it’s faster to kill mobs, less time on healing my self.

[@akoww1000]

I started doing this at 20 and I finding im leveling up way faster. Now I did a bunch of runs of DM to get me a few levels ahead of the quest I was doing. Sad, we Allies don't have a dungeon at 15 we can start doing like Horde has :/

[@rudy1999]

But the best is one shotting opposite faction players drinking and eating at low health in STV

[@gororx5476]

Coops lmao, I remember doing that in vanilla, next to camp nesing, I’d wait for people to duel then I’ll sprint and ambush, months later I realized they were rank 10 plus people dueling there, which made it hilarious, they didn’t kill me because of hugging the trees around and just going around them. Couldn’t spot me. Crazy days 😂

[@tonytaakson3211]

This logic works awesome with a warrior.. stv at 30 is insane for the kurzen and medicine men.. but at 35.. sweeping strikes and cleave works wonders!!

[@boomerbyll3004]

love this video, thanks for the option, it is nice to hear something other than the combat echo chamber.

[@Azamous]

I'm glad, you're welcome, thanks for commenting

[@inspyre4312]

i like subtlety sooo much more and was enjoying it for leveling but thank you for this guide. can always learn something new

[@golvellius6855]

Sub is really underrated I leveled as sub back in vanilla and people made fun of me But either way I always loved the style of sub

[@baronbad5907]

Awesome vid, im glad to see im not the only one loving ambush spec for leveling/world pvp, its super fun blasting clothies and prep is kinda broken af xD The only thing I kinda disagree with was the comment about evasion vs warriors. It can be a double edged sword with the warriors overpower but id much rather deal with that then having to tank a warrios mortal strike, whirlwind, hamstring, auto attack, disarm, and even execute. The other thing being that rouges generally have a decent amount of dodge anyway, meaning a good amount of the time a warrior is going to be hitting you with overpower even without using evasion. But obviously you dont always need evasion vs warriors if you manage to get a good opener or something like that, but rogues are super squishy vs the crazy physical damage of a warrior the best way to fight against them is stun lock and crippling poison kiting and restealthing Great vid, I look forward to seeing more of your rogue content ^.^

[@Azamous]

I entirely agree about evasion, but it's hard to give clear cut advice especially when I'm trying to aim the video towards beginners, I'm glad you wrote your comment out because it has good points regarding evasion, if you don't crippling kite warriors then you'll be seeing the spirit healer, and thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed the video

[@TheGoatLocker]

Perfect

[@Drifthut]

So if you are leveling a rogue I would recommend designating two zone. For example silverpine and barrens. Go to one and do the quests that are roughly the same level as you ie yellow quests. Get them done then go back to the other zone and now those quests will be green and you can absolutely blow through them.

[@Calx9]

No leveling guide in classic wow doesn't do zone hopping.

[@TheGoatLocker]

I got remorseless attacks at 18, and it made a world of difference. I started slaying everything. It is definitely worth taking even if it means getting ghostly strikes at 21 or 22.

[@DD-jr4vt]

I'd delay everything by 2 levels and get Remorseless Attacks right away (or before lvl 15 at least) instead of lvl 40, you'll have it easier for a long ass time up to 40 where the 2 point delay will be well invested given the quicker fights up until then.

[@Azamous]

Great suggestion.

[@johnmalvent2189]

Was gonna mention this, I view remorseless attacks as a sort of sister skill to the priest's spirit tap. Just makes leveling so much smoother!

[@thatsawesomelol]

People always seems to make this recommendation. Remorseless attacks is a low tier talent choice. A single crit buff on a single sinister strike in a specific window after a kill IS NOT GOOD

[@johnmalvent2189]

@@thatsawesomelol You use it to crit ambush on a stealth opener...

[@kovaos7686]

I am loving leveling as sub!

[@jiggijim3552]

Bro best livlig guide ever! Played rogue from start back in 05 to now and still play rogue. And I always play as hemo. Respect my rogue bro

[@thomasfulton5696]

The best part is when he said elitist scum bags I felt that xD

[@Palomitero666]

I thought green quests gave reduced exp!.... hum...well I going to change how I quest. Thank you.

[@starshineline]

I didn't expect the guy who makes the funny videos about being a noob would have such an informative video i wish i'd discovered you years ago this is great

[@Hatemoth]

Love this spec, modified it slightly but largely following it. When I have world buffs active am sometimes 1 shotting cloth mobs my level! Awesome stuff.

[@zoozoo1482]

Nice video my man, I leveled as sub myself and it was amazing, just as fast as combat with improved gouge and backstabbing

[@tonykotlovski168]

THE WAIT IS FINALLY OVER, THANKS AZAM

[@tonykotlovski168]

Az just wondering, im currently a lvl 43 undead rogue on Skeram US, ive been combat swords with imp sprint and evasion talents so far. I have vanquisher's sword and blade of the omen currently and im melting mobs and doing okay in PvP but yeah my shadow priest friend beats me every single time we duel. I've been on the cusp of switching to sub hemo daggers since I made the character but I feel like the two swords I have right now are too good switch out for some green daggers. Should I just say fuck it and do it? or maybe go hemo swords until I find some nice daggers? Also, how does the macro work I thought you can't switch weapons while in combat?

[@Azamous]

@@tonykotlovski168 ​Hey man, those swords are pretty nasty, and considering you've got this far as swords without a struggle, I'd say you could keep doing what you're doing unless you really feel like swapping for the last remaining levels, you could go subtlety hemo swords using the spec I proposed with the weapon swap macros, an alternative to that is one where you could move the 3 points in Improved Ambush to Initiative, but if I'm being completely honest it makes very little difference and I recommend weapon swapping for ambush more than sinking points into Initiative as that would also make Remorseless Attacks redundant. You cannot change armor in combat, but you can change weapons, I showed this at 5:20 after displaying the weapon swap macros. All it does is place the weapon you chose into your mainhand, and spams the desired ability, in this case the ambush macro puts a dagger in my main hand when I press it, so I can ambush right away, the same goes for the hemorrhage macro, as it puts a sword in my hand, you can do this easily yourself and I really recommend doing it to maximize your damage, subtlety is the best survivability spec and you will make the world hate you by being able to double vanish, double blind, double ghostly strike, etc. It's like I said in the video, you really don't need good daggers to crit, that's why at 6:19 I showed a clip of me 2 shotting a mage with the Level 1 starting dagger, you can seriously just buy a dagger from the vendor or a really bad one from the AH, you just need to be able to use Ambush. If you wanted to swap to the spec I proposed in the video, it would still work well with your swords, it would now just mean you have the potential ambush crit opener every time you open on someone. It's a pretty big advantage that a lot of rogues skip out on. If I missed anything or you have any more questions then reply to this and I'll get back to you. Thanks for watching and commenting.

[@tonykotlovski168]

@@Azamous When I try to use the macro, it equips my vanquishers sword onto my off-hand keeping my dagger in the main hand any ways to get around this?

[@Azamous]

@@tonykotlovski168 this is my fault for being lazy with the macros. Here's what will work for sure, I just tested it: Hemo macro: #showtooltip Hemorrhage /equipslot 16 Vanquisher's Sword /cast Hemorrhage Ambush macro: #showtooltip Ambush /equipslot 16 /cast Ambush If you need help with anything else, or if the macro doesn't work for whatever reason, just let me know.

[@vervastar]

AzAMOuS do you use any other macros? I use combat right now and wouldn’t mind a change. Don’t you need to swap dagger back after ambush? And hemo?

[@chad7431]

Subbed to you my man. Really helpful videos. Im enjoying my Rogue so much and i'm already lvl 18! Also dont pay attention to haters and trolls because they want you to get mad! My advice is to just ignore it m8.

[@Azamous]

Will do, thank you for your support!

[@Tarrimaster]

I levelled as sub, and pickpocket macro'd all my openers - got mount at 40 easy peasy. I approve this video - fuck the haters, sub is so much fun!

[@Azamous]

Thank you mate

[@H0kram]

Sub is so much fun to play. Much more than combat. I play a variation of your build. Great point on the leveling zone issue. I got caught in that until 36 than I stopped that rat race attitude.

[@Azamous]

A ton of people really don't know how to level efficiently, I thought that this was common knowledge but it seems like it isn't, I'm glad I could help people because a ton of people give up during the levelling process because they find it too hard, but it's just cause the game doesn't explain itself to you like BFA does and you have to zone hop all the time to make the most out of quests. Thanks for commenting, it's good to read other peoples experiences.

[@McweeDDk]

i finally found a build that makes me start playing rogue

[@barnyfraggles]

I levelled all the way to 60 on subt at release. Respecced to combat briefly...and then reverted to subt as I was bored to tears.

[@gaminghabit9121]

Lmao!

[@barnyfraggles]

@@gaminghabit9121 That being said, I mean solo, you'd be mad to go anything other than subt in groups or raids.

[@gaminghabit9121]

@@barnyfraggles i got you (; I used to have a combat rogue twink in WoLK. All i had to do was open with ambush, and use killing spree. Instant death to any cloth or leather wearer lol

[@gaminghabit9121]

@@barnyfraggles but combat in classic is reaaally different

[@tomashar]

Subtlety Rogue is my favorite spec of all of em but when it comes to dungeons/raiding its really mediocre. I still do recommend using this spec to everyone for solo leveling, it will really make your solo journey easier.

[@anthonydeathchain4710]

Hello, i've been a fan of sub leveling since my first step on LK (at the release not classic version) Got some questions : Why in your talent tree you don't go right away to take the remorsless spec in assassination (i can understand for malice) ? for me they seems to be really important to chain mob. Master of deception don't need to be maxed out ? Is backstab usable on mob ? usualy what happend is Gouge then backstab, but it seems not being consistant, since i didn't wait far in "strategy technique" maybe i'm missing something for backstab. Ghostly strike is my love

[@BB-mw5gt]

very similar to how i played my rogue in vanilla but i never used ghost strike, i was heavy pvp based though and use Prem, nice to see a video no ignoring Sub but clearly pointing out its uses and weakness

[@robp5286]

I loved the subelty spec on my original vanilla account, it's worth using sharpening stones on daggers before poisons come about and even then main hand dagger + weapon damage enchant with a sharpening stone can often heavy crit stuff of similar level.

[@JinZuS]

instant like and sub. your build is amazingly fun and a shreds through content

[@flailmail7069]

My favorite has always been combat rogue, if you spec it right (sinister spam, dodge, precision, parry, riptose, sinister sword dual wield dps to the end of the talent tree, then come back for sprint+ evasion/sprint cd boost to make sure you can close ground in pvp to make sure no casters or priests can keep you at a distance) you can do allllot of white damage consistently with sinister/slice and dice while barely taking any damage yourself, you wont have to rely on stealth as much and wont find yourself as useless when out of it, and wont have to rely on crits to win a battle (as im sure you know how frustrating it can be when you just cant get that crit off) the sheer amount of white damage you can put out with: garrote/cheapshot -> rupture/slice and dice -> evicerate while landing as many riptoses inbetween is actually rediculous, there will rarely be a moment between main wep hits where your target is not being hit by riptose/sinister strike/dot/eviserate [depending on the situation and what your fighting] you will have to rely on knowing the mechanics of the rogue well; sinister directly AFTER each main hand swing so you dont reset your swing timer, & like you said dont try to evade warriors, instead stunlock and CC + kiting them makes them absolitely useless vs you, if you can get massive amounts of dot stacked in the meantime all the better, and if they are unfortunate enough to not have a weapon chain then your riptose will not only be a good counter dmg burst but also increase your sustain significantly vs any other melee class. You can put riptose on your scroll wheel and annihilate any other melee class once you parry (which I can say happens alot more often then one would expect in pvp with this build, even vsing higher levels). The only class pvp wise you have to worry about as a rogue is shadow priests, when your not relying on crits and can do more then 4 hits/2 seconds this class become a joke to deal with once u learn how to control the fights with them (as they cant seem to take a flurry of smaller hits as well as they can take bigger slow hits if you CC correctly). There arent many class specs that can stand toe to toe vs this build. I normally build this as a human counter rogue build as humans will have very high sword/mace dps output in pve, making leveling alot simpler and easier. Alternatively you can switch to maces and forego the extra hits for stun locking, making you one of the most (if not the most) annoying/deadly pvp classes in the game due to the pure amount of CC at your disposal. Most of my pvp im laughing because with a few exceptions ill rarely even get hit before 1-2 enemies have fallen. The stunlock build is better 1v1 while the sword build can quickly take down multiple opponents. Good video, and dont get me wrong your build isnt bad, i use to love using subtle to get to 60, i just like to solo alot and found this better to my aggressive playstyle.

[@flailmail7069]

I dont spec into gouge as i only use it as a 2nd cast blocker (inbetween kicks) (use 2 macros, one to gouge/resume attacking immediately for spellbocking, and the 2nd to gouge + bandaid) (the 3rd use is a basic gouge just to get those two energy ticks before resuming a fight and this is mostly for pve) and for the very very rare chance that i need to use bandages mid fight ( i think ive actually done this in pvp less than 100x, and thats saying alot as i had thousands of pvp kills on my classic character, and this was before they removed the hit % hardcap, nowadays i can very easily get close to or over 100% hit % depending on gear/buffs) Forgot to mention in my previous comment that having slice and dice constantly active is major for this build as it is crucial to keeping that consistent flurry of swings coming at your target. And yes there is cons to this build as well but i think with some preparation/skill they can be easily overcome. (And prep/skill is what a rogue is all about right?) Can i ask, why do you go night elf rogue? The 1% dodge chance and agility might be worth it, ive honestly just never tried it myself, and gnomes escape artist is great as well, same with dwarves stone fourm. Each have their pros and cons i guess.

[@S8N6]

For everyone low level, I recommend using this build until you get Adrenaline Rush + Bladefury. I wish I did :(

[@strangedevice2547]

lol, your spec is so bad that you have to do green quests

[@jceledono]

You are a god, this make levelling rogue soooooo much fun

[@talktomygnasher4634]

Finally someone understands that sub is just better for leveling combat can be usefull with sprint imp kick but I rather have 2 sprints tbh ty for clearing this up and

[@tsenilas15]

I leveled my Rogue with Sub talent and run dungeons with it, its good especially with that talent wherein you can get a free CP whenever a party member crits.

[@Azza_JR]

that tank looks familiar

[@eqcicil]

Great help sir! Thank you! Even a mouth breather like me can follow along!

[@baba.ganoosh789]

I fell for the combat spec meme, this build is so much better!

[@nosworc]

Lol what? Combat is way better for levelling. Sub is good for PvP.

[@nomadgamer168]

I love the way you speak like a true rogue in all aspects :D

[@imhereasalways9045]

1:21 😂😂😂😂 Thanks man it was a really good guide.

[@jani14jani]

So weird to see a serious video from AzAMOuS even though this is years old.

[@rabbitvd6219]

It is true, I aways go when I am above of the level zone it makes everything easier and faster

[@4x4xpedition]

Lvl 38 human combat sword spec here. Just respec'ed to sub after watching this vid. Also got my SM quest dagger just for this spec. Cheers mate. Thank you for the vid.

[@Azamous]

Thank you for taking the time to watch and listen.

[@Traff92]

Whats your thoughts on getting remorseless attacks earlier? 40% crit chance seems pretty good..

[@Azamous]

I'm pretty sure I said somewhere in the comments already that you should definitely get remorseless attacks first even though I did differently in the video. definitely get 2/2 in RA before putting points into the Sub tree, alternatively check out my rogue levelling series on my channel

[@Traff92]

AzAMOuS thanks mate. Makes sense will do!

[@Traff92]

Stupid question but how far do you think meteor shard and toxic revenged with fiery enchant would take me? One of my max level mates is bribing me by saying he will get these for me

[@Azamous]

@@Traff92 I used Toxic Revenger until my 40s cause I didn't happen to come across anything else and had no issues. meteor shard should last you quite a while aswell, atleast 10 levels I'd say. I can't really give you specifics because you may find something better. check out my dagger progression 1-60 video as it covers all the daggers in the game

[@chad7431]

I have a lvl 55 enhancement shaman and bored as hell from playing it. This video made me create a rogue alt! And i'm going sub thx to u!

[@Azamous]

That's great to hear, I hope you have fun!

[@chad7431]

@Tautimaatti healing is boring

[@chad7431]

@Tautimaatti actually im playing as enh since my guild allows it. Lvling alt rogue at lvl 30 now too.

[@mathiashelmersen1468]

Can you please show 5 min of Acutally grinding as Sub pref. around level 30 ?

[@Azamous]

I have clips, but that would be a bit of a random upload. I can do it at your request if that's what you really want.

[@mathiashelmersen1468]

@@Azamous I would. its really missing on youtube, most clips is "heres the talents", and not Let me show you real life quests senarios.

[@Azamous]

@@mathiashelmersen1468 I'll write it down and if it's not uploaded by today, it'll be up by tomorrow.

[@Nimbus1612]

Thanks, very keen to see this spec in action.

[@JonRodGod]

Conflicted is right ! Even though you said don't respec I got 2 cruel barbs and now I wanna respec !!!!

[@Venakis1]

Nice video man! I'm playing NE rogue at classic and I'm 45lvl atm. Looking at guides before launch I decided to lvl as combat sword. It's efficient but very boring.. I used combat up to 38lvl. When I did full SM run with the quest I SKIPED picking sword of serenity from the reward (which almost every rogue got) and I decided to go sub hemo spec, so I chose the dagger reward (Black Menace)! Boy that was life! I spend right after I lvled my dagger skill, 4 hours ganking hordies in STV. It was glorious! One-shoting clothies was so much fun! After I resumed leveling I was trying to find a macro for switching weapons in order to use the Vanquisher's sword on hemo. I struggled at grinding because I was grinding mobs at my lvl or even higher. So when I reached 42lvl I respec back to sword combat.. It's damn efficient but I struggle at pvp, and there is ALOT of pvp in my server! One question, when I was sub spec, I had the combat talent for improved backstab, I think it's nice for pvp and for dungeons, what do u think? Also I think I'll stay combat because soon I'll get thrash blade from maraudon quest.

[@Azamous]

I also took Black Menace, great weapon. I'm happy to see you ganked for 4 hours straight, reminds me of the long nights I spend ganking people myself. Improved Backstab is great but if you get it, you can't get Cold Blood.

[@Venakis1]

@@Azamous Probably a good option is to get improved backstab while leveling at around lvl 39 and when u reach 58lvl respec to get cold blood instead.

[@Venakis1]

@@Azamous By the way, I wanted so much to buy Gut reaper from AH for 35g but I chose to respec combat... It's a slow dagger and it's crits are insane. If I saw your video earlier I'd say sub for sure.

[@Azamous]

@@Venakis1 I used Gut Ripper in a lot of my early PvP videos haha

[@iSp1ke]

this specc is fun, i skilled it yesterday with my lvl 48. 😎👍

[@MarCin-lk8xx]

Yeah old viedo but hell .. i love looking for anything that can improve my rogue . Subtlety since preTBC. Its the best for me. Just learn timing on your energy regen, use engineering and macros (got every single spell as macro) Up to 25 level its like 4-5 hits kill and get only like 10% dmg thanks to dodge (ambush>ghostly strike >gouge> backstab> eviscerate and gg next target) For multiple targets use Target Dummy with stun granades and make distance while fighting main target. Also mouseover gouge offtargets. I use main crippling poison , offhand instant . Later is even more fun with 3/3 sap, blind etc.

[@ropeysubstance1719]

why are we going 2/2 dirty deeds over something like initiative if we hardly even use cheap shot/garrote for our openers on both players and npcs? you said to open mostly with ambush on everything except for plate classes, only in that case open with garrote. but if we're opening with ambush 90% of the time, isn't initiative the better option over dirty deeds?

[@Azamous]

You asked this on my other video aswell, but I'll respond here too: Because when you fight warriors/paladins you don't usually open with ambush due to their high armor values unless you're really geared and feeling super confident, you open with garrote and/or cheap shot. This goes for fighting other rogues too, I advise opening them with garrote then vanish ambushing so they can't vanish or restealth or cheap shot rupturing then vanish ambushing straight away and dirty deeds makes this easier, ontop of that I have recommended using garrote on the opener against plate armored mobs/tougher mobs. It's a very handy talent when you have to inevitably use something other than ambush and can really speed up your rotation in PvP scenarios aswell as fighting tougher mobs.

[@ropeysubstance1719]

@@Azamous thank you

[@zackfairlovesyou8887]

I would love a guide like this when TBC comes out

[@Bedrick]

Just a small mistake I saw. At 3:30 your first talent point you put in leads you into level 10 not 11. So overall your level indicator is ahead by 1.

[@Jopally]

I’ve always thought green quest were bad. Thanks for this

[@Pantelis_Psaroudakis]

Fighting other rogues: what if they have anti-venom or heavy anti-venom like I do?

[@Azamous]

99% of rogues won't have this

[@majmunbezgaca5220]

amazing video, one of best guides ive seen on yt (im also a noob) but i gotta say i feel like first 5 talent points should go into Malice with any rouge build, since it gives you 100% increased crit chance on every single attk you do.. too good to skip imo

[@JijonmajicoSC2]

Thank you greatly for your videos! Much appreciated thinking outside the box. Going along those lines, I wondered if anyone has tried a leveling build where you rush hemo (as here) but then, instead of going into the assassination tree, you go into the combat tree and pick up the 5% hit, riposte, and blade flurry. Any thoughts on this?

[@66.6howl]

0:07 Dude wtf that is exactly how my first rogue looked like! It was also my first character ever

[@AdrianStruwig]

Definately going to respec to this today! Thanks for the awesome vid!

[@mkmike4903]

Its even better on a private server with the backstab glitch. On top of stam stacking so you're a stealthing juggernaut.

[@spencerprewett9005]

I'm level 46 and I switched to your build yesterday. I gotta say I'm killing it way harder now and it's definitely way more fun! Also your videos have some pretty sick music. Do you create the tunes?

[@Azamous]

I don't make the music but I do plan on making my own beats in the future haha

[@roflomega]

Since classic servers startet becoming popular again I decided start a rogue. I stumbled upon this video and oh boy did it just make playing a lot more fun. I've leveled rogues plenty of times before in both vanilla and classic, but this is by far the most fun spec I've tried! Huge ambush crits and huge survivability. I don't play on hardcore but I honestly think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've died. I know its an old video but I have one question: how do you spec for pvp when level 60? Same spec or do you have any modifications?

[@francoischaer]

hi, i am leveling a rogue for TBC, and i will follow this all the way, good work mate, thanks for the tips!!

[@thegrayknight71]

Thanks for the poisontip. My deadly poison fracks up the gouge. :)

[@johnwilliam1761]

Can you do a video on PVE spec, rotations and tips with daggers at 60? cheers

[@Azamous]

I'll add it to my 'videos to make' list. Thanks for the suggestion.

[@Mixwell1983]

The rotation was very basic iirc when raiding.. It was. Backstab,slice and dice, backstab x2 and slice and dice and then x3 etc and always slice and dice.. Then once slice and dice has a good duration you can use combo points to evis.. Those were long fights in 40mans.

[@hasforth9]

Thank you so much for this

[@curiouspanda808]

if youre taking remorless why not take that as early as possible to maximize the benifit of it?

[@Azamous]

read the pinned comment

[@curiouspanda808]

? Where?

[@curiouspanda808]

I’m terrible at this comment stuff

[@curiouspanda808]

Oooh ha gotcha you caught it already my bad. I heavily agree with everything else. Rogues have to face tank and hit rating factors you are absolutely best off lvling thru with your char lvl ahead of zones & quest lvls. Anyone that has said other wise is gravely mistaken. I’m glad someone else brings that to light.

[@Azamous]

@@curiouspanda808 Sorry mate didn't see you responded. Glad you got to see the pinned comment in the end.

[@wwjj64]

New to WoW and this was VERY helpful. Thanks

[@tekenertehee]

popping evasion after a warrior charges or rends you is good if he isn't overgeared. I've killed several warriors with combat swords juts by getting charged, popping evasion and blade flurry and just 1v1'ing them.

[@SuperMikeFender]

Yes, always use evasion as a rogue against melee. You dodge loads so they will be using overpower anyway but it has a cooldown. Just something you have to accept as a rogue. At least with your base dodge chance plus ghostly strike and evasion the ONLY thing that will hit you is overpower. The idea of not using evasion against warriors is just dumb and something that gets repeated over and over.

[@Azamous]

Just in-case you guys haven't seen it, I updated the description of this video a week ago explaining why I said what I said about evasion.

[@SuperMikeFender]

@@Azamous Apologies, I didn't see that. Totally agree.

[@Azamous]

@@SuperMikeFender No worries man, thanks for watching, taking the time to read my explanation and taking the time to comment :)

[@AxelCross]

I was a warrior main back during retail vanilla. I have a warrior on a private server these days. Don't think ill buy into retail classic. Anywhos, I always loved when rogues popped evasion on me. I leveled arms sword spec/offtank. Sure, overpower is on a cooldown. However, thanks to my imp overpower talent, im critting my overpowers as often as you are dodging my autos and MSes. Thanks to deep wounds, 2H spec, and impale my crits are INSANE and will add a second bleed to boot. Sword spec and hand of justice will proc off of overpowers too, not to mention they can proc off of the hamstring that im using as a ragedump so that you don't try sprinting away ;) Even if i can only overpower every 5 seconds, i only need two to bring you into execute range, and i only need 15 rage to spam execute until one connects. Can you burn me down faster? In my experience, absolutely not. I never had trouble with rogues in open combat. I don't think NOT popping evasion helps much either, tho, as i will still three/four shot you in that case. At least if you don't evasion, you aren't handing me free undodgeable crits, which i very much want on you. The only issue rogues ever gave me was if they saw me first and managed to stunlock me nearly to death. But since i played Orc, that wasn't super common either :) See you in STV.

[@PeterNordlund]

@AzAmOuS would you be able to advice on Runes on this build in Season of discovery? i must say i am opretty bad at the game overall and this build was the most fun rogue i ever played! so even if you dont have time, thanks for this one, appriciate it!

[@davidcosta198]

Hey mate great video. For PvP, the Hemo spec is better using swords or daggers? Isnt Hemo more efficient using swords? Thanks and keep these awesome vids coming ;-)

[@Azamous]

I think it's really based on preference, I use daggers and don't really bother using swords even to weapon swap, I just put the tip in for those that prefer to use swords. I weapon swap with daggers but people die so quick I haven't had much of a chance to utilize it. Thank you mate, I will :)

[@fabshakur7286]

Hello, thank you for your video. I am French so I did not understand some things. ( sorry for the translation ) Why and when to use Hemo and Gosthly Strike? I do not understand ^^

[@Azamous]

use them as soon as you open

[@bruzer_8465]

good day Sir. I really like this spec for hardcore. for hardcore would you make any changes? TYVM!

[@stoychosirakov1528]

As combat rogue undead first time I bought food was lvl30. Its so easy, I just stacked agility and mobs died in 2 crits

[@letsdothis5131]

AzAMOuS, Can I get your advice and your opinion on the talent tree in Lich King? What are the changes or modifications to be made? If you can at least guide me I would be grateful. I want to level with the way you explain but for Lich King.

[@gostreiver8036]

Love your guide Azamous, so excited to see you if you come play during the Road to rag on the classic Fresh :D

[@Thesavior1990]

Should you maybe Macro ghostly strike with hemo? so whenever ghostly strike is available it will use it instead of hemo?

[@dan9337]

I wish there a link to the talents somewhere. It's hard to see where you're going with them so quickly. Otherwise, fantastic video series. Are you on the Rogue discord? Would love to chat more.

[@Azamous]

discord.gg/395Fkm - join and ask me anything

[@dan9337]

@@Azamous Can you update the disc invite? It's since expired my good dude.

[@Boneheaded0]

starting a sub rogue now can’t wait to gank

[@imhereasalways9045]

Wish you create more guides like this. thank you.

[@VeteranoNoob]

Alright! First, thanks a lot for your videos, I really liked them! That said, I would like to give another thanks cause I am really new to rogues and I was checking all your comments to get more and more info about rogues and this spec. Nice to see the you replied everyone, I hope I get a reply too. Sorry my Englando, is not my native language. As a newbie rogue I would like to ask you few questions, they gonna be really stupid, I hope you dont mind :) 1. About rotation, I saw that vs plate/cloth we have different opening, but for simplicity sake lets say I use stealth, open with ambush, then what do I do? Its like combat? Spam SS till 5 combo then Evil/SnD? 2. Do I really need Ghostly Strike? Do you think its a good spell? 3. Do you mind to show a rotation for when I get Hemorrage again? Should be something like Ambush, SS, Hemo, SnD? 4. Compared to 2 sword combat spec, do you think this sub build will do bad on dugeons? Hey, once more, thank you very much for your videos! Already sub to your channel and I am looking forward see more of them!

[@Azamous]

I'm glad you enjoy my videos, I really appreciate it. 1. Cloth mobs die fast, open with ambush, hemo once, slice and dice, then spam hemo up to a minimum of 3 points and if it's close to death, eviscerate, if it's not, keep building points. If you're killing it too quickly to spend your combo points then slice and dice to make the most out of them, if there's mobs nearby that you plan to kill, slice and dice anyway, as it'll make your next kill faster. Doesn't matter if you decide to eviscerate though. It's kind of hard for me to give solid advice as the circumstances in the game are always different depending on the scenario. 2. Yes. 15% dodge is huge for fighting melee. 3. The rotation is explained in the video, you pop them with ambush, if it's a caster then hemo straight away then slice and dice, if it's a melee you use ghostly strike, then you're just spamming hemo for eviscerate when it's near death or another slice and dice refresh. 4. Yes. I'm doing a video discussing this in detail to put the subject to rest as I've had a lot of comments about dungeons. Should be out today, latest tomorrow. And once more to you, I'm glad you enjoy the videos, thank you for watching them, if you have more questions I'll try and get back to you ASAP.

[@VeteranoNoob]

@@Azamous Sorry to make you repeat lots of have been said. Really appreciated! Already waiting for the new video. This explanation was very clear. Thank you so much!!!

[@livebythews]

I might have read it wrong but I always put instant poison on my main hand/slow weapon because it's on a Proc Per Minute(PPM) system.

[@Azamous]

The only problem with doing that is you may not get crippling proc on your ambush opener. That's another reason why I recommend crippling on the main hand :)

[@livebythews]

@@Azamous oh ok I didnt think of that, good point. When I'm doing pvp I'll start swapping it over. Thanks for the reply man!

[@Azamous]

@@livebythews I should be thanking you for watching and commenting, so thank you, hope you enjoy playing your rogue, have a good day or night wherever you are in the world

[@scoomfd]

Do you have a discord group, would be easier for you answer questions...

[@Azamous]

Streaming in a bit on twitch.tv/azamous, I'll make a bot that links the discord on there too

[@Mixwell1983]

Disagree on evasion for warrior.. Youre going to get hit hard anyway so why not dodge most of it? Rogues have high dodge anyways so youre most likely gona proc an overpower at some point.. A good rogue will look for the warrior to go from zerker to battle and gouge as soon as you see battle stance icon. There is a gcd when stance dancing.. If you have bleeds on though it will break gouge..

[@Azamous]

Yeah someone already commented about this and generally agreed, but the advice I wanted to give to beginners is to avoid using it so they learn about getting overpower 3 shot. I'm planning an advanced detail where I cover Evasion and everything a bit better in the future because it's hard to give advice due to not every scenario being the same, the game is very circumstantial with the various situations you find yourself in and it's not black and white with what to do/what not do to, etc - and yeah, the gouge tactic means you have to get right up close to them and if you have bleeds up you can't do that, so as you've realized in your comment it isn't black and white with giving advice, there's a hundred shades in-between depending on what circumstance you find yourself in. Thanks for commenting.

[@Evaese]

Great guide mate, just about to hit 32, then switch over to sub!

[@alicenguyen5044]

is it more fun to apply garrote and rupture and watch them bleed to death? or use ambush and bafkstab on them for fast kill?

[@dathip]

hello sir question. Is their a way to macro using BOTH my swords? I say this because their will be few times where I can't ambush or dont want to ambush like fighting mobs underwater like murlocs for instance.

[@abstractdaddy1384]

A couple thoughts. 1. Why did you put a point into heightened senses? It seems like a lackluster talent. 2. I think lethality is highly overrated and should only be taken when you have a very high crit chance and/or backstab build. Considering it will only be increasing the damage of your hemo and ghostly crits, in the end the talent is going to be increasing your overall damage by very very little. You still think it's worth it? 3. This is kind of a follow up to the last one. You might say, well what else would I put my points into? I'd say murder and ruthlessness. Murder is a no brainer. It does more with 1 point than lethality does with 5 (this is not an exaggeration. I did some napkin math and with generous numbers got lethality at .5% increase TOTAL). I did some math on ruthlessness and calculated that an extra combo point on eviscerate 60% of the time would be around a 15% increase in dmg for it. And of course you could also use it for rupture or SnD making it even better. What do you think?

[@Azamous]

1. Because heightened senses helps to see other rogues which means I always have the advantage in rogue 1v1 situations. 2. Lethality is good in this build, atleast I think so, because we always have a high crit chance in this spec depending on the amount of agility you have but primarily because of the times when you do happen to crit, it's huge, even better if you have remorseless attacks up. Are you seriously telling me that you wouldn't get the 30% increased crit damage for your hemo/ghostly/backstabs? That's a huge boost in damage when we crit. 3. Mobs and players don't live long enough to make the most out of ruthlessness, they're usually dead in the first combo point set, but its not a bad talent. Great for dungeons, but that's not what this spec is for. Murder is OK, but I don't think it's as good as what you're saying it is, can you explain the math behind it a bit more so I can see how you came to this conclusion? If you disagree with the spec then you can always bend and change things how you like to tailor to your playstyle, the aim with this is to be PvP dominant whilst levelling and if we had issues killing mobs and it was taking a prolonged amount of time I'd definitely recommend ruthlessness but honestly we chop them up in seconds. When your backstabs crit with lethality it's huge. Murder just seems like a waste in comparison but it could be worth it, I always neglected it because as far as I can remember it does not increase the damage against other players until WoTLK, but I could be misremembering. Thanks for commenting, hope that I've cleared up some confusion in regards to why I take heightened senses and lethality but also miss out ruthlessness and murder.

[@nathantaal5382]

Is it a possibility to modify the spec to get improved sap? Could be handy for pvp and some pve occurrences

[@america795]

Funny cuz i dueled all combat rogue as 42 and beat all of them n STV! Mybe cuz i got improved stealth? and i get opener always bwahahaha 😂😂😂😂 my rot for dual sword n pvp is just stunlock them till they die 😂😂😂😂 hemooo is fking insanely stronk Edited: My spec was no ambush spec cuz i like to pvp while questin but i will try it out

[@Azamous]

Combat rogues cannot win against Subtlety rogues, this is an undeniable fact.

[@agentlemanofhermajesty7051]

So do you recomend we do Mining and Engineering as professions? And no Leatherwork and herbs?

[@glk96_]

playing without IMP sprint is annoying for me (x