Azimuth - Eurofighter

[@albedoshader]

At last-a documentation worth the name, with historical, economical, political and military backgrounds. It contains criticism as it’s meant to be, weighing the pros and cons of the plane’s development history, military role and its capabilities. Worth watching.

[@1Alpha1AlhaBeta]

You've got to love the Yf23 - one of the most stunning aircraft ever built.

[@alpha001ful]

And i am neither a Sukhoi or a Lockheed fanboy, though i had worked for the latter one. Good Night from Texas !

[@TheNoodleman1]

Development,stress,performance,vibration,software engineers to name a few have a mutual respect in the aerospace industry.The tit for tat blog i see below me is quite imature. Thanks for uploading this well produced doc.

[@beaggyboy]

Another one of those very educational documentary by Discovery that l've actually missed & Tnx to the uploader,l get to come-up to speed at it,howevr the vocals of this is very subdued,l'd've to watch it in the dead silence of early morning in order to capture what was spoken.

[@hotman966]

Eurofighter best plane ever!!!!!!

[@fireengineer]

The Aircraft in that shot is not the Typhoon, it was the tech-demo. They are connected to the flight control computer as the design is unstable and always wanting to depart from controlled flight the computer must constantly correct to allow for this.

[@DLJ585]

Much Better than what discovery puts out nowadays.

[@alpha001ful]

During the exercise, IAF was in quite a handicap too. They did not use their best pilots, limited their radars to training mode, limited their datalink functions, and were trying to be more careful of the FOD thus the 1 minute MITO.

[@blablubb12345]

Production cost was around 190 million (average over all F22 produced), just using the lowest fly-away cost during the program doesn't count. Add in 8.3 billion $ to bring the first 80 airframes to operational status and 11.7 billion $ for the upgrading program and you end up with 300 million per plane, even without R&D.

[@blackchallis]

Awesome documentary

[@alpha001ful]

“ F-15Cs are old” The 65 AGRS fly the F-15C,the first model flew on June 19, 1979 not 98, and is currently the most trusted and most made variant, it was also flown in the famous Desert Storm and has a win ratio of 104 to nil. There is around 482 F-15Cs almost 100 more than the second most used F-15 variant i.e. the F-15A. So F-15Cs are the most reliable variant though it is older than the strike eagle and silent eagle, there are only 2 or so silent eagles out there.

[@dnate697]

Very good and unbiased video.

[@alpha001ful]

Su-27 Flanker was developed to counter F-15 (&MiG-29 to F-16).When it rolled out, it broke most of the records held by F-15 including rate of climb, max. Service ceiling, rate of turn etc. It had longer range than F-15. - As per agreement with Sukhoi aviation of Russia, IAF can't use the highly classified radars of Su30 MKI - NIIP N011M Bars (Panther) in any war game. So, IAF's Sukhoi 30 MKI has partcipated in war games without using its radar. That limits its use to some extent.

[@alpha001ful]

As for Red Flag the aggressor routine where 4 aircrafts of the blue team defend a territory against 2 aggresors which actively jam their radars gives the blue team certain amount of time to cope with the difficulty however even that time is limited and they do not present them selves as kills at that point it is basically 4 on the blue team against 2 aggressors so the aggressors are naturally outnumbered.

[@blablubb12345]

Yes, it can. The Mach1.2 figure is for a full air to air load with a centerline drop tank. The F35 can't supercruise at all and has a stated top speed of Mach 1.6. The problem with the F35 is that it has very limited internal weapons space so in most cases, at least the IR missiles will have to be carried external.

[@BonScottAC]

I miss this old school Discovery channel quality

[@jrm21386]

What you're forgetting about is that the F-35 can engage targets behind it without even having to point its nose at the target. Moreover, the Typhoon wouldn't even be able to find an F-35 to engage in a dogfight before the Typhoon itself was found, acquired and destroyed the by the far stealthier and technologically advanced (avionics-wise) F-35.

[@MrShreddd]

I completely agree. Well said :)

[@rynnebryanne9866]

The left wing is covered in breadcrumbs and comes with a chilli dip, but the right wing is more southern fried style . the new prototype drumstick should be an absolute blast . p,s the balls come from Nigeria Hold the mayo!

[@eyeAMtwinkEE]

Yes I've seen it. I've also seen it. That doesn't change the fact that the F-22 has still manhandled the F-16 on multiple occasions. (the F-15 and F-18 too)

[@fireengineer]

It will out-turn the F-22 without having the vectored thrust of that plane. It can pull 9g whilst supersonic and maintain it, thats awesome. It is a fighter bomber and it does it well. The F-22 is a dedicated fighter and it does that well, from a distance, a dogfight is a different matter.

[@vinniechan]

True. It's all speculations until we see actions. At the end of the day, it's all numbers game and how ur aircraft suits ur doctrine. If u look for air defence only, u can more than hold out with a large fleet of the cheaper Gripen (which u can scramble very quickly) complimented by surface to air defence.

[@Obvioustroller]

Aww the gripen never gets any respect :(

[@fsxflyer253]

It works don't it, and it keeps countries happy

[@benbennit]

Last manned fighters. They are huge expensive lumbering dinosaurs compared to the latest drones.

[@Ozgrin_thewizard]

Understood, but can it supercruise with a full air-to-air load? Wikipedia: "According to the official German Luftwaffe and Austrian Eurofighter website, the maximum speed possible without reheat is between Mach 1.2 and Mach 1.5." That's what I meant in my previous post. The F-35 could go much farther and much faster than the Eurofighter. With its stealth, the enemy wouldn't even notice them until they get bombed, which by this time even on Mach 2 the Eurofighter won't be able to reach the F-35

[@PrivateCustard]

Obviously you haven't seen the pictures of the German Typhoons with raptors listed amongst the 'kill graphics' along the side, from when they took out the F-22s in various excercises! Nothing's invincible. Hubris blinds.

[@alpha001ful]

In BVR and in ground attack capability they are probably equal. But in dogfight, SU-30MKI is superior. There is an episode of two Luftwaffe EF going to intercept Russian A-50 plane, flying too close to Baltic States. While they were busy with locating and escorting A-50, a pair of SU-27 came out of nowhere and passed right by them on supersonic speed. EF pilots hadn't any clue idea where these Flankers came from. Dogfight didn't occur anyway, cause all of them were approaching Finland...

[@HollandN54]

@DeadMemories03 The F22 is British and American ! BAE SYSTEMS provides all of the electronics for the aircraft, and if you do some reseach you will find that compaines that are British provided other parts for the f22 The f22 is a joint project between Britain and America

[@anonymous10011]

I think that's a bit blunt; whilst you most certainly know more than me on the subject, I do think that it is highly improbably that the F/A-18 can outmanoeuvre a Typhoon. The key reason I'd give here would be the Typhoon's negative static stability giving it a mind blowing instantaneous turn rate, and its super low wing loading allowing for a world beating sustained turn. It also has an upper g-limit 1.7g higher than the legacy Hornet. Continued

[@anonymous10011]

Just to expand on the whole upper g-limit thing, I know that it very much depends on the payload, but the Typhoon’s is far. Also, regarding the pilot’s, I know the Swiss are excellent; when evaluating the F-16, the American’s were shocked by their A/G precision, but equally, the RAF’s pilots get more hours each year than almost everyone and the Luftwaffe are renowned for fine pilots too; who were you up against? Finally, whilst I don’t doubt you, can you provide some citation for this scenario?

[@bujoun76]

@bhigr True stealth isnt the "ultimate" unbeatable tech for a fighter but lessons have been learned. The F-117 succesfully completed well over 2000 sorties with only one loss - Officially! You can't be surprised stealth is now being built into fighters and fighter/bombers. F-22 pilots climbed back into F-15's, and used everything they already knew, and still couldn't beat the Raptor. These lessons are clear and indeniable. Higher costs of modern fighters are a painful byproduct.

[@rushofspeed]

DOG fights are a thing of the past ever heard of the F-22

[@MrKissMyAssNooB]

this thing got trashed in the MMRCA lost to Dassault Rafale , it was a tender for 18 billion $

[@blablubb12345]

The left wing is made by Alenia Aeronautica, Italy and the right wing is made by EADS Casa, Spain. BAe Systems is responsible for the forward fuselage, vertical stabilzer, dorsal spine, inboard flaperons and parts of the rear section. There is plenty of information availlable about these facts, so if you claim otherwise, please provide some sources.

[@lairdriver]

That was based on test airframes. The plane is fine. They have F22s parked in Alaska, and in the hottest places in the US and around the World. There is a high maintenance routine for all NATO Aircraft. That is also a choice. Our Aircraft are high functioning and will have a longer life if you treat them nice. The Raptor has killed 8 F15s in laser tag Dog Fights. It is more then up to the challenge. Considering killing 1 F15 is extremely difficult.

[@barracuda7018]

Exactly !

[@BandBullets]

@frizstyler f-117 was shot down because flaws in flight planning they used the same flight path 5 times they got cocky or lazy not mixing it up

[@AVMamfortas]

Well discussed.

[@jrm21386]

I'd say losing one stealth fighter to a wall of anti-aircraft shells fired blindly into the sky doesn't exactly disprove stealth technology. The B2 conducted the majority of the missions over the Balkans and didn't even come close to being detected, much less downed. You're likely correct about the AIM-120 having difficulties engaging targets after a 180-degree turn, but I'm certain that they've probably worked out much of the kinks. The F-35 has its flaws, that's why it's still in development.

[@fireengineer]

The 22 and the Typhoon are different machines with different missions. The Typhoon is a dog fighter the 22 is air superiority. Typhoon can perform high g maneuvers at super sonic speeds, no other can.

[@Kaip911]

back when the discovery channel had good shows.

[@anonymous10011]

Just out of interest, did this happen before 2005? I've recently read that up to this point, the FCS restricted alpha to under 30* however, now this cap has been removed.

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

Mirages were effective dogfighters in the ME due to their low weight.

[@bujoun76]

Not sure what you mean but there are now 195 Raptors built with 187 operational. The F-22 is far from dead my friend!

[@TheTabellarius]

The War games were not done by the manufacturer?

[@basimpsn]

Is it me,, are does it looks like the canards are conected to a gyro ? 22:34 but can be over ride by stick movement?

[@EdgyNumber1]

@47:00 I find it amazing Eurofighter survived at all.. The last British government totally decimated manufacturing and engineering in this country and the idiots that are coming out of the school system and want to be WAGs and popstars offers me little hope we can maintain the lead in defence technologies.. a sad state of affairs.

[@sammoon9603]

Did the description of all the components various manufacture remind anyone else of a Monty Python bit?

[@alpha001ful]

When was this documentary made BTW ?

[@alpha001ful]

What about EF's comparison with Su-30 MKI's, one of the most advanced derivative of Su-27 flanker ? I at-least know it is more maneuverable and has longer range . They both are designed for Air superiority. During an exercise between RAF and Indian A F , they were pitted against each other however results are biased from their medias? I haven't found any sincere analysis :(

[@azimuth361]

Hey! HEY!!! I have to call my lawyer for trademark infringement.

[@wiganerrmc]

listen i was based at RAF st athens for 6 months one of my best mates is a EF pilot EF is to expencive for Switzerland anyway

[@Citrakite]

It's a fighter made piecemeal by 4 countries and assembled in a completely separate location and yet somehow they didn't think this would make the plane cost an arm and a leg, development costs not withstanding?

[@TheTabellarius]

The term & intent of Super cruise was used by the US & British for their new designs it was supposed to give extended high speed range to overcome National air boundaries The engine barely functions super cruise is a failure on the Failure 35 just on of the many features it will never achieve

[@blablubb12345]

So i guess they had a time machine, because the Eurofighter program started years before the MiG 1.44.

[@alpha001ful]

Is this leniency ? but there are tons of other variants of exercises where the aggressors do not relent at all, like the night exercises, or the one on one or the 4 on 4s etc. Red Flag has a variety of exercises and is not a simple 1 on 1s or 2 on 1s like you are thinking

[@TheRjjrjjr]

I get such a kick out of all these shade-tree aircraft "experts!"

[@nanotope]

The F-22 is so stealth .,,,, In the last Red Flag the eurofigthers have locked him at 80 Km.... Maybee is the reason of the reduced number of airplanes produced.

[@alpha001ful]

What about Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) ? Do you think it is better than Rafale and Typhoon ? Why ?

[@MrShreddd]

The SU-30mk1 looks like a good airframe, though it is let down by poor avionics. The Sukhoi is more manouverable than the Typhoon due to TV nozzles but the typhoon has a better climb rate and thrust-weight ratio. The typhoon would win in combat as it would detect the SU first and destroy it BVR. This Margin will be increased when the Typhoon gets METEOR. The SU30mk1 is a very good design that would beat most f18, f16, tornado, mirage, a10, and older f15's but the typhoon is superior :)

[@fireengineer]

I should say, sustained super sonic high g maneuvers in the region of 12.5g all day long.

[@MrShreddd]

They're completely different planes. The Rafale is a strike aircraft so it's probably a better carrier multirole ground/air combination. The Typhoon is an air superiority fighter so in a long, medium or short range dogfight the typhoon would dominate

[@lairdriver]

except that one is about 20 years newer then the other. The F22 was built on BVR fighting platforms. If it has to do VR fighting, the Pilot is doing something wrong. The Raptor technically should never see a single Dogfight.There are only 200 of them or so built. The Americans will have to use them sparingly and wait on the F35 - which I have high hopes for.

[@NickDelhanidis]

would be cool to find it in higher resolution

[@TheTabellarius]

While the Current version is SU 35 the thing to remember is it is in production & use Superior to anything avaliable in the west The F22 is still not in production still experimental & if it ever reaches production the outrageous cost of it coupled with the massive over servicing US aircraft require will probably see it hit 150 to 200 million per unit the SU 35 can be purchased at the rate of 2 or 3 to the cost of one as yet non working F22 Craptor

[@DaSnipy]

My RC plane can kick ass of all those planes above ! =D

[@blablubb12345]

It's not relevant what you *think*, Mach 1.5 clean and Mach 1.2 in AtA role are stated values. The only point to discuss is whether the centerline tank is included in the AtA role or not. The 4 AMRAAMs are semi recessed under the fuselage and don't create much drag, neither do the 2 Iris-t or ASRAAM at the outer pylons.

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

The MiG29 chief test pilot would say that though, wouldn't he? The Eurofighter may claim to be in service, but until the OBOGS is fixed... No.

[@azynkron]

That however doesn't mean anything. The UK is highly committed to the Eurofighter project so it's highly unlikely that they will take on another since the Typhoon has overshot it's budget by tenfold. So has the F22 and F35 as well.. so that's normal, but taking into consideration that they are struggling with the budget another costly and high risk project such as the F35 is not very likely to fly [sic!].

[@nimaside]

The US ha already acquired the f-22 and we are maintaining them so I don't know what that means. The 195th (last f-22) was rolled out last week. Will there be an f-22b, or speculation. As for the f-35, it is still being worked on. Possible engine upgrades and changes, etc. It's way too early to make any judgment calls on the f-35 varients yet. Anybody that does is just ignorant,cause the f-35 keeps changing.

[@Dhuum301]

The f-22 and f-35 isn't always 100% stealth,they are not as sneaky as you think,only 65% of the planes are made from radar resistant materials,the only plane with 100% radar materials is a B2-spirit witch is a heavy plane,the f-22 and f-35 both needed to be light planes,if they had 100% they would be to heavy

[@orlock20]

@bujoun76, it's worse than you think. The major NATO nations in Europe couldn't attack Libya without U.S. help, because none of Europe's aircraft could defeat SA systems designed by Russia in the 1980s and 1990s.

[@PrivateCustard]

Oh and also, have they managed to solve that issue with the Raptor? You know, the one that slowly starves the pilots of oxygen, leading to hypoxia...........or are they not out of the maintenance hanger long enough for that to be an issue?!

[@Baseshocks]

Drones.... until the enemy sets up a jamming signal that ether hacks or makes useless of those drone fleets... Drones will always be secondary until a true dog fighting AI is created.

[@mrbishi1000]

how old is this film? i swear if it wasn't about modern aircraft i'd think it was in the 70s LOL

[@albedoshader]

oops, I mean documentary, not documentation. ;)

[@Dhuum301]

very good point,they are both brilliant planes though,but there isnt enough f-22s

[@Ep1taph1]

It is true that the Typhoon has beaten the F22 in simulated dogfights and is better in some aspects such as climb rate and the fact that it can carry a heavier loadout than the F22 whilst having very little on the aircraft's agility.... But, it doesn't matter, there is no doubt that the F22 an incredible aircraft. Also Typhoon and F22 pilots will always fly mostly with countries that are close allies and will dominate the sky together!

[@MrShreddd]

I think the JSF will be a good multirole aircraft, especially if it's as stealthy as it's said to be. The only real problems with the JSF are its cost and its lack of manouverability. I believe the F35 is a better strike fighter than the rafale (due to its stealth) though the rafale is a great jet, JSF is a good replacement for the f16/ tornado, though i don't think it could substitute the role of air superiority taken by the typhoon and f22 due to a lack of manouverability and supercruise.

[@Ozgrin_thewizard]

There's no place for such a comparison. The Tyhpoon has 2 engines, whereas the F-35 has one. The F-35 is smaller and has a stronger engine which makes it far more manouverable, and it is also faster: it can reach Mach 1.6 even when fully loaded, and the Typhoon has to be "stripped" of all arnaments in order to do so, which means the F-35 could win anyday. Seriously though, there is no room for such a comparison as the two are meant to serve >together

[@lairdriver]

Regardless, the F22 and F35 are fantastic Jets and the future of Air to Air Combat. Combine those with NATO Pilot training and you get the same lethal combination that other potential adversaries just cant keep up with. My Uncle works on an F35 assembly line, most of the stuff said in the media about it has been based on a manipulation of test airframe data.

[@mikeplay007]

Su 35, and MIG 35 are anyway best of the best.

[@nimaside]

The Brits just recieved their first f-35b vtol------for testing and so fourth.

[@jrm21386]

So it was. I wonder how detectable the B-2 is...

[@TheTabellarius]

Once again SUPER CRUISE was the main selling feature the engine has had another grounding / recall turbine blades can't develop full power.

[@blablubb12345]

The Typhoon is fully capable of reaching >Mach 2 with a full air to air load. The F35 being "far more manouverable" is just plain wrong. The F35's strengths are low radar cross section and advanced sensors, not speed or manouverability.

[@garryclelland4481]

The F22 is as you say a ''next gen fighter '' , but the reality is America wont sell it therefore the conclusion has to be drawn that the typhoon will be the only realistic option to counter the Soviet built threat .

[@MrShreddd]

I agree. The F22 would dominate them both in beyond visual range combat. The Eurofighter would dominate in a close dogfight but it has get get there first lol

[@TheRantingCabbie]

and ditch the Lycoming for a PT-6. Boo-yeah, air superiority!

[@15thsquadron01]

Terrible Video Quality but it was taped in low definition VHS? Not a Super VHS.

[@clouster75]

Eurofighter was inspired by MiG 1.44 MFI

[@PrivateCustard]

That still doesn't explain why ground crew are getting ill too!

[@blablubb12345]

The other wing is made in Italy, not the UK.

[@eyeAMtwinkEE]

The insurmountable gap between Western and Eastern products in the areas of pilot training, quality, and funding heavily favors the west. Other less vast chasms between the two stand in avionics, maneuverability, technological advancement, and overall aircraft performance. The west still emerges the victor in these categories but not by such a wide margin.

[@alpha001ful]

Not even systems with Eurofighter and Rafale ?

[@Ag3nt0fCha0s]

Don't believe what the computer wargames say; that's allowing the manufacturer to grade their own homework.

[@ahgoon69er]

33:00 it was a mistake by pilot he was going to slow and tryed to lift

[@DrSchredder]

mhh .. but remember . the heavy F15 could even follow the tiny, very agile F5 in a dogfight, which weights just about the half. here at 29:00 watch?v=s4wpxWC-RvA it was really impressing.