Destiny’s Biggest Hurdle in 2025

[@kaseyschmidt5158]

Bungie’s objective: survive

[@GrimNought]

honestly, i kindda hope they dont

[@SaltyFrosticles]

​Hopefully Sony absorbs the talent and dump everyone else. ​@@GrimNought

[@bournecode]

The Fall of Rea....Bungie

[@Bastion0418]

Lmao I just thought of RDJ from Tropic Thunder. At the beginning when Ben stiller is being lit up and he just says “survive!”

[@thegoldenhat301]

AAAAAAHHHHHHHH THERE IT IS! Seriously tho, the game is at a huge stalemate and needs something new and refreshing, the seasonal/episodic model really dried up up the game too much

[@cldus7442]

The core issue is, as you said it, a lack of innovation. We're grinding the same activities for loot to use in similar activities for years and years and years.

[@TreySmale]

Years and years and years lol

[@He_joi]

And yet when Bungie tries to innovate, we tear them apart.

[@rla9889]

The funny thing is they don’t even really need to innovate that much. They just let entire modes rot with no updates at all. Minimum viable product is Bungie’s company motto.

[@adriandoesstuffandthings]

​@@He_joi What was the last major innovation for d2 that got torn down? The only one I personally can think of is the integration of the echos exotic quest with its story. I love the quest, but having to do the almost hour long run every week to progress the story is kinda annoying, I much preferred seraph station's integration because the story was building up to it better, and the extra explorations of it were only integral to upgrading the exotic, and not progressing the story.

[@Lord_Tyrannis95]

For me not really, if the game was a carbon copy of D1 but with the same content I’d be a die hard fan still, but the problem is too many bad unnecessarily decisions and content

[@chandrashakarkuldeep4792]

The actual hurdle is Bungie saying making content is hard, yet Eververse is always stacked with cosmetics that destiny players would absolutely grind for in game.

[@Subsistence69]

Soooo true. Absolutely hate how all the cool shit in games now is just bought with money. Give us cool shit to earn so we’re actually spending time in the game and make some UBER cool stuff that we can buy and are more likely to because we’re in the game so often

[@thehairygull]

This is exactly it. Take a page out of Warframes book ( I know Warframe everything ) Complete an activity like a Fissure that drops high level items that can be sold for a currency that is usable at a vendor that rotates cool items and skins. Oh that thing that dropped doesn’t work for your build or a part to something you’re actively crafting, doesn’t matter it still has value.

[@bruenastralith5404]

it always makes me sad when I see all the armor they add into Eververse compared to the armor earnable in game.

[@Dev2n]

This season in particular they’ve done a great job with armor design and it’s mostly obtainable for free except like one or two sets. But seasons prior, this is exactly the type of shit id be telling my friends, let me grind for shit, not pay for it😅

[@edward_fm]

@@Subsistence69true

[@g0g0duck20]

The problem with Destiny is that it never really evolved as a game.

[@spinky342]

Yea like obviously it would be better with a POE loot system, because bungo never upgraded their outdated loot system.

[@braedanbaird8851]

It’s barely different than it was back in 2014.

[@spinky342]

@braedanbaird8851 they've been carried by their gunplay and raids/dungeons being fun with friends, which hasnt changed since 2014. I absolutely adore both those things about destiny, but that's not going to keep an aging playerbase or attract newbies.

[@magic_cfw]

I would say it loses as much as it gains. It has definitely changed, but in some ways the things lost makes it all the same. I guess it's foundational as the constant regrind for the same rolls when light level goes up doesn't feel great

[@UBtagSoGood]

I know they're reworking the armour system, but it'd be cool if they gave armor drops a whole slew of perk it can drop with just like weapons. IIRC they're going for set bonuses for the new system

[@maxhocks2006]

Bungie has 3 main problems. 1) all management cares about is money. And they take shortcuts to get it instead of building long term sustainable ways to make it. 2) bungie is on a treadmill of content delivery and they keep switching project managers so there’s no long term planing for content, story, or mmo/quality of life features. 3) bungie is terrible a getting new players. So they’re constantly trying to squeeze a smaller and smaller pool of players. Plus they treat their players so badly that when people leave they never wanna come back. Till they fix those three issues the game will continue shrinking until it’s shut down completely.

[@harrymarshall4080]

"save a dollar, lose a player". Spot on. That's exactly how it feels rn.

[@Dan016]

This is the real problem right here, more than the game just not being fun, it’s just this overall bad sentiment of layoffs, bungie seeing us as dollar signs, the company feeling like the bottom’s falling out, I just don’t want to go back to playing D2, I’m letting go and moving on

[@terrarians707]

I thought I would be playing destiny until the end but I now find myself not playing at all

[@nastynate46]

You did play it til the end, my friend. Bungie just hasn't admitted that the end already came.

[@Muppet-kz2nc]

It is the end. No one is going to roll credits on a live game.

[@bournecode]

Be free my friend!

[@teamtakeover7317]

If you've played in the past 2 years then you played past the end.

[@zc4905]

The Final Shape WAS the end. There’s a reason it was named “FINAL” shape. We killed the big bad guy.

[@ProbablyCheddar]

The problem is the amount of loot from general play. You have to jump through several hoops this season for a mild bump in loot drops. Dawning essence was a big indicator of how little Bungie respects player time.

[@user-kt9sn8mz7z]

^^this

[@HowdyHowdy_]

Plus the double edged sword of hundreds to thousands of desirable rolls existing over the decade but extremely limited vault space.

[@AJGudmundsen]

@@HowdyHowdy_ Limited vault space plays into the other HUGE problem with loot: even if you manage to get a god roll, which by its very nature has the "best perks", Bungie could just come along a few months later and say "hahah fuck your god rolls" and nerf those perks into oblivion. Crafting solves both limited vault space AND bungies impossible urge to nerf fun into the ground. Hell, dont even need to be sarcastic about nerfing fun, some perks do need some tuning, but Bungie's tuning often makes it useless. I was spending so many hours grinding for the new glaciocasm lone wolf+closing time, only to realize that its probly getting nerfed anyway, so whats the point? If a perk or perk combo on craftable gun gets nerfed, i at least can re-craft it into something not useless. Envious Arsenal + BnS? Yeah, enjoy it while you can, because Bungie is definitely coming for both of these perks soon.

[@Lorentz_Driver]

Or just Crafting

[@d2titansareweak]

Sunsetting was a good thing.

[@minilabyrinth]

As a returning player who hasn't played since Witch Queen, my main issue with D2 is how small and shallow the long-term progression is for a casual, non raider. I started at 1900 light level and within literally 2 to 3 days I was 2000 at the soft-cap The incremental pinnacle gear adding 1 digit to that, along with very slow artifact level up, just doesn't give me a robust feeling of long term progression. In Borderlands I enjoyed farming for rng drop weapons and the badass rank system, it was very long term and permanent upgrades. In Diablo 3 I enjoyed farming for that chase cosmetic (cosmic wings) as well as the long term gem upgrading and socketing, plus the paragon, all permanent, long term progression stuff. In Black Desert I enjoy the endless leveling system, where nobody has reached the level cap because there virtually isn't one and the cap for lifeskills is basically unattainable too, so you're in a permanent race with others to have the highest numbers. I'd love if D2 had a basic leveling system and showed our level instead of our guardian rank beside our name Destiny's character progression ends in 72 hours and after that it's just small stuff like hoping you get a little better stats on seasonal armor drops. There's nothing to strive towards in D2 like the other games for me. Even the exotic loot, I can just pull infinite amount of copies from the collections/cryptarch/monument to lost light, the loot chase is not very exciting

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

You haven’t played since witch queen. You’re a casual nobody cares what you say. Lmao.

[@minilabyrinth]

@@BrainWasherAttendent Wow, way to be cringe. I literally stated myself that I'm casual and non-raider. A game needs both casual and hardcore players to be healthy

[@ronnii1010]

​@minilabyrinth hitting a level cap would be fine if guardians nowadays weren't so overpowered and some upgrade system could happen to abilities. But now, prismatic everything and never die. Weapon roll farming makes no sense either in PvE because any missing perk can be recovered from masterworks, enhancements, or ability/armor mod/seasonal artifact perks. Try running a raid twice, with the same subclass build and armor, but one with "god roll" weapons and the other any random weapon. They feel almost the same

[@ronnii1010]

​@@BrainWasherAttendentit's ironic your last name is Pi. Given the intellect of this comment, it's doubtful you can even count that high. Tough times buddy, wish you all the best in life 💌

[@dankblissey6162]

Hit the nail on the head. And without a decent progression system. The whole game collapses, which is why seasons are so focused on relatively shallow, quick content. Meaningful progression and scaling challenge to get better stuff is literally at the core of a loot based game and destiny doesn't have it

[@mikew6554]

I think the statement, "i dont care" is what bungie needs to worry about.

[@dochedgehog]

Wrong. It’s the 5+ years of content they have removed from the game. 32 MILLION players over 10 years and only 10,000 active on steam. They’ve burned to many bridges with the Fortnite game design. People can’t even play through caydes death 😂😂😂😂😂

[@serenist]

@@dochedgehog Who still cares about the damn content removal? Oh Red War is back lets run a 7 year old campaign with 0 difficulty and no enemy density.

[@bruhmoment7424]

@@dochedgehognope ur wrong. No one would hop back on to replay 7 year old content. We need more and better new content to save the game not old shit with gear that’s irrelevant now.

[@ecalz2100]

I am now consuming Destiny drama more than playing the game. The drama has better content than ingame content

[@jag9872]

Its hard to look away isn’t?

[@raysolo137]

He man?

[@cyberius6]

Even the drama around destiny 2 is lame lmao

[@lizziel7778]

My biggest issue with drops really isn't random rolls vs patterns. It's mostly how much garbage armor drops over anything else. When was the last time you were excited about a world drop armor piece? That lovely 53 stat roll. I feel armor is pointless unless it comes from endgame or it's focused

[@derka4754]

its the fact tht youll actually never get a good armor piece exploring a planet.

[@lmojol9673]

I feel this. I just started playing the game again a month ago (last played with beyond light for a few months so I’ve got a lot of content to go through right now) and armor drops are so boring. Even a lot of the weapon drops feel really lame after I discovered all the new guns since the last time I played. Has it always been like this? Certainly wasn’t like this with D1 right?

[@alexmcphee7674]

ayas Luna never left the game but palindrome did and now we have to wait for bungie to bring it back and I

[@karson2022]

witawwy something they have discussed working on in Apollo

[@EddieGlover-rs8vr]

This.

[@OMGrant]

The problem with Bungie has been how far they've pushed their luck pushing toward minimum viable product. Not considering this constant cheapening has a breaking point and people leave forever.

[@OMGrant]

Also Bungie devs can't get anything approved. Its ridiculous.

[@rla9889]

Exactly. People are wise to their minimum viable product approach and realize what you see is what you get. All the optimism about what could be, what kept people playing, is gone because we all know Bungie is going to produce the bare minimum until it’s time to sell you another $100 expansion then it’s right back to scraps.

[@jonnysilia5740]

Exactly, they reworked certain strikes not because they were bad but because players could complete it faster than the other strikes. They do NOT respect our time, anti-crafters have Stockholm syndrome over grinding a "god" roll for entire days just to use that same roll for little differences in pvp and pve

[@NobleVI_343]

That's the side effect of trying to fund 3 game's development with 1. It's idiotic at worst and utterly and unfathomably retarded at worst- did they think Forsaken level return of profit was sustainable in any way? Like, cmon man, execs have driven this company into the DIRT.

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

One last thing...13:37 Digital Extremes has around 350-400 people, they're advancing Warframe, they're building Soulframe's early access/taking feedback/iterating, both at the same time...Bungie, at its peak, has had, what...1200 people total? Sure, many of those people were spread across a whole bunch of cancelled projects, but Destiny itself had to have at least double the people working on it as Digital Extremes staff was working on Warframe. Bungie has no excuse for the state things are in anymore.

[@peterjohnstone7867]

My biggest gripe with the Bungie was they did a bunch of Dei hires, instead of hiring based on people's skill. "Oh great you hired everyone no other game company wanted because they are gay, but they can't draw a straight line, or code with spelling mistakes."

[@RedShadowOfSaturn]

@@peterjohnstone7867 Friend...lemme tell you right now...them being women or gay or non-white had LITERALLY no impact on how terrible their development was, as the game was tumbling down a cliff even when most of the leads were straight white guys. In fact, a straight white guy in Chris Barrett harassed women in the office, got fired for it, and is now suing the company for 200 million. Miss me with how gullible you are for believing "DEI" is what's ruining games. Warframe and Baldur's Gate are IMMENSELY woke are absolutely amazing. If you're worried about "DEI," then I'm making you aware of this right now, because I guarantee you're not willfully aware of it...not a single person any game company hires that's non-white, non-straight or non-male is going to be someone you respect as being "skilled enough." Because you've been indoctrinated into racism and sexism by all the wrong people under the guise of "well ackshually, it's a conspiracy." Start thinking critically and stop believing everything you're told by every bad faith actor on the internet.

[@karthas_tgg]

The cope of trying to blame Sony instead of Bungie for Destiny's demise. The failure of Destiny lies solely with Bungie. They are to blame. They failed

[@jk5385]

Something that really irritates me about D2 is the complete uselessness of weapon rarity. What is the actual point of rarity in the game when everyone just has legendaries for every slot within a few hours? Its a completely pointless system as it stands.

[@jk5385]

Imagine for a second, a system where weapons have a number of upgrade points, similar to armor, where you could slot in different rarities of weapon perks that would cost more upgrade points to apply to your weapon, like an Exotic version of rampage for example. Then, they could add rarities to MOBs in the game, where like in PoE or Diablo, would apply unique modifiers to them depending on their rarity. Then if you kill this mob, randomly generated in any content you do perhaps, it would grant you a much higher chance for that mob to drop a weapon or weapon upgrade within the same rarity tier that the mob is. Idk, something to add gameplay variety, customization, loot chase and challenge all at once.

[@cjburch24]

I was like "I was thinking the same thing" and then I read the 2nd comment and I was "nope, this guy's thought about this a lot more than I have."

[@cameronsalmon1314]

@@jk5385that would be a D3 weapon system. Bungie wouldn’t overhaul their current weapon system thats so deeply rooted in this ancient engine. At that point it would be smarter to overhaul the entire engine.

[@Subsistence69]

@@jk5385amazing idea. Lean more into juicing your weapons and perks and maybe even armor stats, just more complexity overall. A balance of rng and controlled crafting

[@Sandwichslayer14]

I actually got it in LITTERALY MY FIRST HOUR because I played 3 Crucible matches

[@aurendawnstar3026]

Crafting being introduced was probably the biggest reason why I continued to play Destiny for as long as I did. By the time it was added I was already getting sick of getting screwed over constantly by RNG to the point where actually getting a "god roll" was less of a happy, exciting memory, and more of a moment of relief that at least one painful grind was over. Crafting was a grind that was guaranteed to result in the exact weapon I wanted unlike random drops, and even then it was plagued with RNG through the focusing system. That said, Desiny's issues go far beyond crafting vs. RNG loot as that still wasn't enough to keep me playing in the end. That's just one of the many symptoms of a far deeper problem within the game and how it's been managed over the years. If Destiny is going to survive even a year longer in any form Bungie is going to have to put some genuine time, effort and money into improving things, and even then I doubt the chances of the game recovering are all that great. An actual Destiny 3 would probably be required for that, and even then it would probably come far too late to help.

[@hawk9mm]

Same here, most of the time before crafting I'd just try for as close to God roll as possible then stop playing the activity. I'm sorry to everyone who feels like they gave to waste their time means now than it actually is but I'm not getting paid to play this game. I shouldn't have to take up a second job just to get the thing that I already paid for and earned. All thanks to devs obsession over RNG.

[@acito35]

A man of culture 🤝

[@zackphy]

I'm the opposite, crafting killed nearly all desire to actually run activities. While I enjoy playing the activities themselves, that feeling runs out EXTREMELY quickly, and what's left is loot farming. To me having EVERY SINGLE DROP feel absolutely pointless killed the entire point of Destiny. No rolls mattered(especially when you couldn't enhance non craftable weapons, and you still can't enhance rng drops of weapons that are craftable, they force you to get the patterns anyway) at all. Even the red borders that dropped were instant deletes, just 1 out of 5 on a checklist. What they do need to do is crank up the loot faucet, Into the Light felt pretty good in that reguard, but what we have now is terrible. That being said I know ppl feel the opposite which is why crafting does have a place in the game, just not in raids and not the current absolute best loot in the game.

[@mr.johnson7424]

​@@zackphy I skipped this season completely because they removed crafting. My time is valuable to me, no guarantee? I'll take my money and time elsewhere. Seems like a lot of people agree with me.

[@jombii-7090]

​@@mr.johnson7424it hurts even more with the Tonics dropping completely different weapons than described "So my time that is already wasted grinding these weapons and the game won't even drop the weapon I'm focus farming for?" Effectively killed the grind for me this episode

[@davidpoggioli3673]

Crafting is not the problem it’s consistent engaging content….there supposed to be overhauls to weapon tiers and armor tiers

[@wredue3733]

The engagement problem is that you can spend literally 2 weeks targeting a specific thing with hundreds of rolls and STILL not get a decent roll. Hell, it's been a full year and I still have not gotten a 2/5 Crux Termination. The fact is that tiers is not going to help that. If people cannot get some semblance of progress in 2 hours of time, they will keep flocking to other games.

[@sunofabob]

​@@wredue3733time commitment as well. The full onslaught is one hour guaranteed. You get a lot of gear but it was mostly cosmetic. I got shinies but rarely use them. The old guns are already great. So you have a cool activity that is essentially a time sink to earn gear that seems cool but doesn't change your experience by much, if at all. It's too much really. I said long ago that we get too many weapons each season. Most of the stuff is just filler.

[@nobodyscomment929]

​@sunofabob Honestly, I'd take less weapons every season if it meant getting a shit ton of free new cosmetics that we could grind for. Hell, I'd invest far more time into seasonal activities if I could farm for cool shaders and weapon/armor ornaments for both legendary and exotic gear. They could also add in ships, sparrows, skimmers, and ghost shells too as potential rewards to grind towards.

[@mrkat8137]

Honestly sure yeah but I think what kills the loot incentive is how mid new loot is now. Old loot is so strong that why would anyone want Revenant weapons that are the same power at best. Plus new activities are just so boring. Revenant offered nothing new, gameplay wise. Onslaught was onslaught. I mean the refreshed prison of elders is fun imo and feels new enough but with the mid loot it just doesn’t matter.

[@edwardrichard8093]

​@@wredue3733true just let us craft it so I can stop playing until the next god roll I need. Like do you not see how dumb your logic is? The problem is you feeling like you need the perfect roll

[@CrypticSiren]

I'm just sick of these "new" weapons coming out.. and they're like hey .. go grind this weapon to have THE EXACT SAME FUCKING ROLL OF 10 OTHER WEAPONS WITH THAT FUCKING PERK POOL.

[@michaeldoe2170]

It really does hit home with me.. I have played Destiny for 10 year's. I have not logged on the game in 4 month's I'm done. Unless they revert or overhaul everything. The amount of money I and many others have spent on this game is sick...

[@mustangthearpy]

Same for me too...I quit back in September 2024. I am not coming back, Bungie got the last $100 from me !

[@HarperLylia]

Same here. I played since the D1 Alpha, and my final login was back in August.

[@kingkordy]

Same

[@peterjohnstone7867]

​@@HarperLyliaMy last log-in was in August as well! The 6th I believe 😮

[@spectre4165]

In D1 the enemies dying and dropping a purple genuinely felt good, because you could use those purples for so many things and getting things you genuinely want. Now though they’re worthless and I delete them at a moments notice.

[@BotFisherman]

I still check legendary weapons and see what roll I get, but armor is always a dismantle now. Every piece that drops barely, if ever, breaks 60 stat points. There's no point in them dropping now other than maybe being enhancement fodder

[@TriopsTrilobite]

When every weapon is legendary, none of them are. I think thats part of the reason they’re going to introduce tiers this year

[@wickermind6668]

"Crafting is bad! Everybody should just go back to boringly slaving away on the same nightfall for several hours for a specific roll! - People with too much free time

[@TheHermitsQuarters]

And those "paid to play" like Aztecross. You have to really, really remember what and who you are listening to (streamer) when watching his videos.

[@jombii-7090]

This needs to be said more: the only people complaining about weapon crafting are the ones who ONLY PLAY DESTINY If you have so much as ONE other live service game in your rotation you're not getting everything crafted in a season/episode, especially with how boring the game has been

[@John_marston1909]

​@@jombii-7090 yeah and still these guys are so blinded by it and want that "perfect 5/5 god roll" which no one has the time to get

[@patrickjackson1989]

Lets make it easier when u log in u get to pick a free weapon u can craft.

[@memlordnord567]

Agreed, not everyone has a billion hours of free time to grind out the loot they want

[@domp2729]

Destiny’s biggest hurdle in 2025? Bungie.

[@海洋之月]

(｡・´_｀・｡)

[@turd0420]

Is 2025. Games have actually been good recently. Couldnt say the same for the past 8 year of fortnite influenced garbage.

[@Mrs.Garrison69]

@@turd0420are you smart enough to realize your statement contradicts itself? Also destiny players can’t complain about good games, y’all had a decade to play good games and we choose this garbage game instead

[@Slitheringpeanut]

@@turd0420 You're putting too much influence on FN. It's not that powerful. I know it's cool and trendy to hate on it, but it's not that influential.

[@turd0420]

@Slitheringpeanut f2p cosmetic shops with battle passes on a "live service model". Dude idk what world you live in but fortnite normalized that. Its anti consumer and only designed to lign pockets. Destiny 2 was that turning point.

[@Willjoestar]

Warframe reinvents its self every year, destiny goes back to old locations and reskin guns, also I think there goal in 2025 is just to stay relevant.

[@peterjohnstone7867]

In my opinion it's because they made DEI hires instead of skill level. Bungie: can you draw straight lines Potential employee: I can't draw what I'm not! Bungie: You start Monday!!!

[@viktorpavlov5008]

marathon is DOA.. that is if it even comes out. Sony are soon going to take over bungie. They already know they massively overpaid (got scammed) for bungie and D2 is on a massive downward spiral and losing revenue. Only a matter of time before Sony takes over bungie completely and outright cancels marathon. Then Sony are going to use bungie's leftover resources (which are actually Sony's resources already) to develop one of the live service games of Sony.

[@zc4905]

Sunsetting, content vaulting, weight gate, tonic gate, multiple rounds of layoffs, Pete’s cars, no more expansions, bright engrams giving your 10th duplicate of a ghost/sparrow/ship, lackluster events, reskins of reskins, the list goes on and on. People are just… done. How many apologies are they going to issue? “This time we’re actually sorry! Yeah but THIS time we’re seriously sorry!”…

[@Hawk-Eye-bs2hr]

And still no SRL

[@realBiONiC]

@@Hawk-Eye-bs2hr But you dont understand .. SRL requires working ... we dont do that, we just use the same particle deposit gambit mechanic in every activity.

[@Anchor-Supreme]

Only thing Bungie has anymore that sets it apart from other games is the gunplay, everything beyond that is objectively worse than most live service games. - Loot? Awful, 90% of it is worthless and the amount you get per activity does not respect players time - Activities? Boring, majority of them used recycled mechanics present in other activities, notably raids - Builds? Most are useless thanks to Bungie never updating under-used exotics or abilities or blatantly making stupid design decisions related to balancing - Exploration? Tedious. Most places aren’t worth exploring as Bungie has almost entirely abandoned secrets in the game, and most landing zones have little reason to be revisited after the campaign. - Monetization? Hope you enjoy overpriced seasons and DLCs, cause most of the work goes into making skins for Eververse instead of adding things for players to chase in-game.

[@karson2022]

They have been updating and buffing more exotics now than ever before. The other points are valid enough to have an argument though.

[@houseflygames]

90% percent is an overstatement. But so far I agree. I think what made me like older d2 is that i sensed quality over quantity, things to chase or enjoy despite the downsides that were there

[@vruxdrossgaming]

​@@karson2022It took them almost a decade to do it.

[@karson2022]

@vruxdrossgaming for sure we can talk about that they took to long to do it. But they are trying new things. Banes, armor changes, I'm not very optimistic about how it'll all work but we'll just have to wait and see once it comes out. It could be too little too late but that isn't what we were talking about

[@stalkholm5227]

One of the things that drew me into D2 was the build crafting and the looting, but these days I find it hard to justify running anything besides Prismatic and the loot all feels mostly the same. "Oh, another Arc Pulse Rifle, cool, I'll add it to the dozen in my vault, this new one even looks like prosciutto." I used to at least log in for the red border seasonal weapons, but those are gone now I guess.

[@zacharymacdonald5897]

Zero faith destiny survives another 2 years, they would have to significantly overhaul the game to make it feel fresh. Which i know they will not they placed all of their eggs into Marathon which in it self is a severe departure from what destiny is.

[@novuspatriarch]

Said everyone after d2 launch. 😂

[@Play_In_Traffic]

*2 months. There, fixed it for you.

[@decoyhunter8832]

People said stuff like that back in d1, the more things change they more stay the same

[@XbaconfordayzX]

​@@decoyhunter8832 that was when the game was still fresh and it had more than 2 devs making it

[@novuspatriarch]

@@Play_In_Traffic that doesn't make sense. It has to run for more than 2 months. They already sold the third episode. 🤣🤣

[@pftvfc66]

Destiny as a game is over, in the current iteration and philosophy. Not even Frontiers will save it. Over 90% of the game needs a complete, radical, change. Bungie should just put D2 in auto-pilot mode and focus in making a completely revamped Destiny. But they won't do it, they will focus on Marathon while being completely absorbed by Sony. As a company Bungie is dead.

[@lonigus]

Path of exile is the prime example of how a live service game should work.

[@rjmacready6693]

Minus the slog of a campaign and awful endgame maps system. And melee being a complete disaster. Otherwise I agree.

[@peterjohnstone7867]

Same with Warframe 🎉

[@traviswalters2345]

That rare drop potential is exactly why Destiny 1 was better than Destiny 2. Random powerful exotics that dropped at any moment. So not giving out all exotics as quest would go along way.

[@oatmeal7480]

As a D1 vet I’m just tired. I used to find thrill in grinding hours for one mediocre roll of a weapon I desired but as I have gotten older I value my time spent playing games more for the fun factor. I don’t want to get off of work and grind until my eyes can barely stay open just to not even get a remotely good roll of something I wanted. It is just stale and boring and as a pvp lover I can’t seem to enjoy getting into a lobby with broken abilities or cheaters flying around the map when I could just go play something like cs2 and have no barrier to entry like god rolls or abilities… there are just better pvp games than d2 now. And as for pve it feels like if I was trying to eat my favorite food everyday… at some point, even if it was my favorite, I would learn to get tired of it. People are tired of the same stuff every year, and bungie can either continue to milk the player base and beg us not to leave or they can adapt to create something new and fresh, there move but regardless I will be waiting with my popcorn bucket to see what they choose.

[@AndrewOnYoutube]

my Vault is full of masterworked God Roll weapons. I just want to care again. About the characters, about the lore, the activities. Destiny used to be my life.

[@tinystar3010]

Character sentiment dropped during Shadowkeep and Bungie started writing in real-world woke issues through ghosts of the past like Zavalas dead kid. It's a video game Bungie... It's meant to be fun, and fantasy and DISTRACT US FROM OUR REAL LIFE PROBLEMS. Not remind us of our real life bs by going into an escape just to deal with more of it. Game went woke, and killed everything. Character relationships went handholdy. Uldren killed Cayde, and in Forsaken I was so elated to kill him back. I even bought back into destiny and bought Forsaken just to have that moment. Then they went woke, made Uldren a guardian and gives us kindergarten lessons like forgive him, befriend the murderer.... Yes people can change, but that's rarely the reality of it. For years I've hoped for a chance to take Crow out. Now he's our hunter vanguard? F that. Bungie absolutely ruined the story, ruined the characters. And then there's the other thousand issues with the game. It's over....

[@theholycrusader8115]

Literally whats the point of grinding another godroll smg for example if i have 2 kinds of ikelos, a calus and who knows what else. Why should i care about the new strong gun when i have 6 similar

[@magicking577]

​@@tinystar3010 Dead kids are woke now? 🤣

[@saltydog7482]

The thing with crafting is sure some people would rather keep grinding for the perfect random roll, but for an average player coming back to grind the red borders to craft the weapon was the grind. I stopped playing mostly due to same old same old. But if there were craftable weapons I'd probably hop on at least weekly to work on getting those. But can't be bothered to try and get a specific roll. Other weapons I already have are fine enough

[@Ace11Sky]

Joined in red war and played through all of the stories dlcs until sunsetting. I quit when the devs decided to take away the content I had already bought and paid for only to add in more op and broken items behind paywalls. Ever since that point, my trust with Bungie was fundamentally broken. I've kept up loosely with the game, watching through or getting story summaries, for each major release ever since and the majority of them seem to have been bad except maybe the final shape. From my outside perspective, there hasn't been anything to earn my trust back after having been burned before.

[@Haze_8]

Crafting was never the issue, and Ill never understand people's desire to rid of it. You want to grind a gun for hours that'll inevitably be nerfed/power crept months to come, while trashing alternative rolls that'll eventually be meta, needing to grind for them again? Hell f*cking nah brother.

[@kaygetsbusy]

Exactly, I'm a casual gamer due to having kids and it took me 6 months to get frenzy/tremors on blast furnace!!! 6 months which is crazy and these idiot youtubers not tryna understand that I don't have time to b playing 14 plus hrs a day

[@tjpablotj3144]

Yes, exactly I want to have fun and not have a singular meta I want everything to be OP I think Bungie should take inspiration in what makes helldivers 2 and marvel rivals fun

[@manowar2943]

That's right my friend, that's i love crafing weapons in D2, i save more time, Witch Queen story and crafing was best 2 things after Forsaken for me👍 Rng i D2 its very bad for me, that why i like crafing, i save a lot of time😂

[@AJGudmundsen]

PREACH.

[@02Resurrect]

All i got from skarrows tweet is that hes unemployed and doesnt like when people with jobs get good gear istg

[@elitedovahkiin756]

Nothing in destiny 2 is interesting anymore. The armor is boring. The weapons are boring. The locales are re used garbage that we have played a bunch of times before. The story is boring. How tf is Mithraaks corrupted? I played everything up to this point and there is no reason for him to be corrupted? Some will say read the lore books. Bitch if I wanted to read I would get a book. But I am playing a game. Put it in with the gameplay. Even the gameplay is weak now because of so much loot bloat it’s hardly worth getting anything new because it gets left behind in a season or two when some crazy perk comes out that stomps everything into the ground.

[@Zio-e5t]

Mythrax being corrupted was explained in game during lightfall, dumbass. Was even a whole cutscene about it.

[@Eztra326]

Mithraks was corrupted when he siphoned the soul of Nezarec out of Osiris back in the season of plunder. It was only really mentioned in an ink blot cutscene during that season which a lot of folks didn't finish but still

[@berthein5476]

There is no loot bloat. Its that its all curated to the point where there cannot be any breakout hits anymore. You want loot thats fun and fresg h1 to h100. Ply diablo, poe or borderlands. Thats btw why crafting ruined "" the game. Because there is no actual looter shooter aspect anymore. Its just bungie curated weapons with 2 roll combinations they intended the weapon for and some perks to keep you grinding. But effectively we are back at d2 year 1. D1 was so much better and had so much more verity.

[@elitedovahkiin756]

@ I miss the days in D1 where it seemed there were viable rolls on guns in all types. The last few years has been one or two guns good per season total. And it sucks

[@TheFallinhalo]

@@berthein5476 crafting only "Ruined the game" because RNG weapons dont stand out above them, however that isnt craftings fault, that wouldve been the issue if crafting happened or not. its a issue Destiny has had for awhile, nothing stands out from the loot you have had from 4-5 years back, because nothing fundamentally changes, its all the same loot, same stats, same crap. the game needs ACTUAL Powercreep to make new loot interesting, otherwise why would i bother wasting 10-20 hours farming for a weapon when i know in the end itl perform no different or better to the weapon im already using? thats the reason to farm in these games to hunt something that will make you more powerful. or further enhance youre performance, not just be a side grade.

[@rgentum]

The biggest hurdle is trying to get leadership tf out of there

[@TheStarForge]

Playing Path of Exile 2, I realized just how BAD the loot system in Destiny 2 really is. There is no impact to the loot dropping, there is no excitement when I see an exotic. There is also no reason to grind anymore, at least to me. You used to grind light levels in order to raid, get better guns to do more damage to bosses. Now you don't even have to do raids to get the best light level gear... and you don't need to do GM's in order to get highest light level gear. It's just useless to grind.

[@kazi6343]

I don't think crafting or rng drop is the problem. The issue is lack of new content and meaningful story. I have no interest in the episodes. Also I am not a fan of the new exotic class item system.

[@kylokatarn9080]

For the longest time, I havent been able to properly put into words why Destiny's loot grind felt so tedious and stale, but I feel like you hit the nail on the head here. With how the mission-to-mission experience is structured, you get a bigger dopamine hit from the knowledge that you never have to play a certain activity again than from the actual drop you were chasing. Psychologically, the only part of any mission/activity that matters for most people is when you open that final chest. The mission itself is just an obstacle to get what you want: a very pretty gate that you have to slowly open to get the thing you want on the other side. You can make the gate look as pretty as you eant and give it all the bells and whistles you can fit on it, but to the person who's only care is the reward on the other side, it's still just a gate. I think that is a big reason why so many people hated the introduction of banes and modifiers, even though they are a good solution to the difficulty problem Destiny has also had for a while. It's because to many, it was just another annoying obstacle in the way of their goal, an extra several minutes or extra hour before you get the thing you're there for, an extra addition to the gate that makes it even more annoying and tedious to open. The journey means nothing to a lot of players, only the destination. Tackling the problem from that angle (with some of the suggestions Cross makes in this video and more) might be the best way to alleviate this issue, but Cross is right that more foundational overhauls are needed to more effectively overcome these problems. And with the current state of Bungie as a company, I don't see that happening. But I'd love to be proven wrong. As an aside, considering that Firewalk Studios was made up of a bunch of former Halo and Destiny devs, I find it kind of baffling that Sony didn’t either fold Firewalk into Bungie or make Firewalk a Bungie support studio after Concord flopped. It definitely seems like it would have helped them deal with the bugs and glitches faster.

[@ChadZavala1327]

4:20 about killing a specific enemy in nightfall... Those were called Named Targets and back in the day they had a chance of dropping a specific weapon like dust rock or ten paces etc.

[@PapaMidnite__]

Those are the ones the stuffed in random lost sectors huh? I didn't play back then, but I saw something that looks like that in my triumphs

[@ThomasTheTankEngine22]

The problem to me isn't crafting versus RNG. It's the fact that you can't trust Bungie to do either correctly. You can't trust them to do shit. It's incompetence all around. The leadership and the developers. I know nobody likes to call out the developers, but the leadership isn't the one making this shitty code that leads to all the fucking bugs

[@JohnHPV]

For sure it the devs bad for firing the QA team, devs therefore having less workforce for the same amount of work, like use your brain jesus.

[@prismgames]

You hit the nail on the head. When playing something like the Witcher 3, you can have complete faith in the developers' ability to make the content amazing. With Bungie, I don't even believe they can make a game properly anymore. They're so incompetent it astonishes me how they're still in business Every but decision they make is shit

[@Lorentz_Driver]

How to tell someone who's never set foot inside a studio:

[@Lorentz_Driver]

​@@prismgames No they didn't lol That's not how game dev works. You have deadlines. There's no such thing as perfect code and as time goes on, you work on more and more with no QA. Devs are not at fault here.

[@prismgames]

@@Lorentz_Driver The game could've been good and sucks ass, I don't really give a shit that game development is hard work, they don't deserve my money if they come up with crap

[@x7ehsmoke]

What if Bungie improved the loot system like this: When you run a dungeon or raid for the first time, you have a guaranteed chance to get the weapon. Once you've unlocked it, you can farm a special currency earned by completing that activity to unlock all possible perk combinations for the weapon. This currency would function similarly to Spoils of Conquest in raids, but instead of just unlocking red borders, it would let you unlock every perk for that specific weapon. You could then customize your weapon with the perk combination that best fits your build. Currency could also drop from boss fights or major enemies, with each dungeon and raid having its own unique currency. For example, in my new build, there’s a grenade launcher I want, but it’s only available through random rolls from Zavala engrams. Imagine being able to get the weapon and then earn Vanguard-specific currency to unlock different perks for it-rather than relying on RNG for random rolls every time. This system would solve inventory issues too. Instead of holding multiple copies of the same weapon with different rolls, you’d only need one version and could switch perks as needed. It would also eliminate the frustration of chasing red border drops and feeling like you wasted time when they don’t drop. Instead, grinding activities would always feel rewarding because every run gets you closer to unlocking the perks you want for your build. Bungie could even reserve the most sought-after perks (like god rolls) as the final unlocks to keep the grind meaningful. To maintain balance, the currency could be capped weekly, motivating players to log in and complete all dungeons or raids to maximize their progression. This would encourage engagement while ensuring the grind doesn’t feel endless. The game play of destiny right now its at its peek its so much fun i have never had so much fun in destiny with my crazy build. But i dont have a reason to play the game unless i want endless farming grind. **How it changes Destiny:** Currently, it’s incredibly frustrating to chase a specific roll when the drop rates are so low. As someone with a family and limited gaming time, I often feel like I’m wasting time grinding for something I may never get. I end up sitting in orbit, unsure where to start, and defaulting to quick Vanguard runs just to enjoy the builds I’ve already crafted. But if I knew every activity brought me closer to my goal, I’d be excited to log in, clear my weeklies, and run dungeons or raids. The grind would feel rewarding, not punishing. Exotics should remain exclusive to hard content with limited weekly drop chances, similar to how it worked in Destiny 1. Even secret chests could have a small chance to reward exotics. I remember grinding D1 raids endlessly for Gjallarhorn (which I never got), but the grind felt fun and worthwhile. Right now, exotics feel easier to obtain than legendaries with good rolls. A system like this would restore the sense of accomplishment and purpose to chasing loot.

[@Shadoenix]

I had several issues with Destiny, but me leaving was just the straw that broke the camel’s back: the layoffs. I quit during Season of the Deep. Uninstalled, swore it off, tried to forget, everything. I had issues with the game (little endgame, stale gameplay, same thing everyone is saying), but hearing about all those layoffs back then was the one thing that pushed me over the edge. I couldn’t play in good faith after hearing about all the good talent that the guys at the top just abandoned. If I had stayed, I would be playing while listening to myself complain, “The people that made this don’t have a job anymore. They got fired and it wasn’t their fault. Think about the company that made this game.” I always try to separate the art from the artist, but that time it was too bad. I’ve never regretted leaving.

[@HAMMER300RUM]

The problem i think is there is too many guns in the game that are soo close to each other in stats that its not really worth grinding for the new gun. Not only there is probly forgotten guns that are better than the junk we are grinding for

[@kalrot3992]

This. We got to the same point as before vaulting (Wendigo, Mountain top meta etc), there are sooo many weapons with amazing perks (and craftable wich negates the rng factor) that the newer ones are just junk compared to the old ones (plus the fact that seasonal weapons arent craftable now + trash perks). Right now their only way to fix this problem is: -Vaulting: Wich pretty much makes the players farm for new weapons, and now you can put better and better weapons as episodes pass. -Make powerfull weapons: Wich they havent doing that much, but it will make the problem persist (+ they cant make powerfull weapons for each type each season) -Make Destiny 3 lol I dont think of other ways. Everything is as before beyond ligh and vaulting: People start playing less because theres no new lot that is powerfull as what we had before, theres no more engaging history (as the last seasons before beyond light) and the content is easier because of the powerful weapons and builds we have, woch means everything is less challenging.

[@serenist]

@@kalrot3992 The way is literally in front of your eyes. Wth? Did everybody forget about Frontiers? It literally shows a completely new system for both Armor and Weapons which will obviously decimate your vault and make you farm fresh stuff.

[@solis7368]

I stopped playing Destiny a few months ago and I will probably never come back. I believe you hit the nail on the head with the loot system, as I never feel incentivized to farm anything. All the weapons are more or less the same, feel the same, have similar perks, etc. I don't feel drawn to farm anything because I don't feel like it's going to anything. The future is completely uncertain because Destiny likes this air of secrecy around the content they produce, which ultimately doesn't build much hype. Like with season of the deep, and how the trailer for it dropped on the SAME DAY it released. I also think the fact that the game being built around playing with more people is part of why it is dying. People are burned out doing the same thing over and over again, so they leave, and now people who haven't done it before have no one to help them. There are so many fundamental flaws with the game now and I don't think Bungie will be able to recover before hype around Destiny as a whole dies out. They need several system overhauls (like what Warframe did) but they simply do not have the team or the engine for that.

[@usr01]

Last gun I actually farmed for beyond the vespers host weapons was the BXR. Damn it’s been awhile.

[@karson2022]

@@usr01 yeah VH guns and the guns from SE are pretty good, just that SE guns are craftable so no need to farm.

[@treblemix_]

Didn’t even mention new people need to kwtd or get kicked lol. Did salvations edge once wasn’t going to keep on trying to get the exotic after so many runs of different raids. Burnt out and over it. Vex 11 runs, conditional 50😭, Tom/necrochasm 30, collective 25, etc etc

[@jk5385]

The problem about making these sweeping changes, without making a new game, is that it would have a cascading technical effect on every piece of old content in the game right now. The only reasonable path forward is a Destiny 3. Full stop. You can only tear out the foundations of a game, or really anything, soo many times before it becomes infeasible to build more on top of it. THAT is the real challenge they face. They need to bite the bullet, make D3 with a strong vision, strong fundamentals and foundational additions that will empower the devs to add to the game in the future. D2 was always built on a poor foundation. This can't be fixed, especially in a live-service game that needs to keep things rolling out to maintain a playerbase.

[@benwilliams9692]

The ending of the Light and Dark Saga was a perfect time to swap it out. They're already trying to take us out of the Sol system, the Nine could be a new BBEG to deal with. It would make sense with the additions of Clan housing being Capitol ships, and the Guardian's ship is now a customizable space. Give us a REASON for crafting not being in the game (The relic is on mars, not in your ship).

[@basedmarlon]

D3 isn’t gonna happen I doubt Sony has any trust in them at all anymore. Doubt they even see Destiny as a flagship title either, i genuinely see this game dying in a year or two. Bum ass management.

[@ivory867]

Nah other games make huge changes all the time just about every big name mmo does it every couple's years or so

[@jk5385]

@@ivory867 While i see what you're saying, those games are built with the intention of being iterated on and built upon for years. Destiny 2 was built with a shelf-life, as intended during their contract with Activision. It was only supposed to run for a few comet expansions iirc.

[@mikethehunter5212]

@@jk5385 A D3 would suffer the same fate unless an engine overhaul or replacement were to happen.

[@samuelhofer7099]

On another note, aside from a lack of innovation, it definitely doesn't help they butcher the core playlists. Like, we got an ok update for PvP once last year, but god, how long did it take to get that? Battlegrounds in Vanguard is a decent way to retain a little seasonal content, but only one new strike a year? And Gambit is probably the worst case of missed potential I've seen in any live service - and Bungie cites a lack of players like they even bothered to care in the first place. And then you couple that with the yearly slashing of half the game. It effectively makes all old locations entirely pointless and devoid of character and charm because it's content and context vanished - you're just left with a skeleton that's been eaten by itself. So you really only have the seasons to give you ANY story, gameplay, replayablility, etc.. And so that wraps back around to the point of innovation. If you got a meh season, not even bad per se, just ok, that's not your premiere content, it's your ONLY content, so the game falls off drastically. And the funny thing you about you mentioning Warframe. That game evolves in very subtle, gradual ways, but the thing is it's always had Bounties, Invasions, or Relics. There will always be Sorties, Arbitrations, Steel Path, Archon Hunts, and Netracells. That content won't vanish in a year, or five for that matter. And that's the core gameplay - DE doesn't quadruple down on the hip new update they're dropping, they always like to add to that core with everything they do, and if you don't like one update (like, i hate the Zariman location for example), well there's 10s, 100s of hours of content to fall back on.

[@samuelhofer7099]

Also, I feel i should say, i like crafting, but the lack of innovation there has butchered it. Crafting is still the objectively better way to grind wherever it is present. And halfassed, nonfunctional focusing options and perk enhancement isn't even good enough to be called a bandaid fix. Crafting has gone too long in it's extremely powerful base state, and I'm honestly doubtful weapons 3.0 will move the needle, because we already have best in slot for every element, every ammo type in the game nearly with crafting.

[@Nightstalker3791]

Gambit went years and years without maps or any other meaningful update and I remember reading the anger on Reddit because Trials was getting special treatment with 1/5th of players Gambit had (this was before they allowed matchmaking for Trials). I never played Gambit since they got rid of Prime and Classic. I also thought they started to cater for "milestone players" over sandbox stuff trying to make people who don't like Gambit to like it, failing, and then putting off players who previously liked Gambit with those new changes. I still get a chuckle looking back when people complained about Sleeper killing them knowing full well Queenbreakers' Bow would take its place and it did. So when they got rid of Classic and Prime we lost maps that were exclusive to Prime. :/

[@samuelhofer7099]

@@Nightstalker3791 Yeah, I played when Sleeper was meta, and honestly, I'd take that over Ghorn, Xenophage, Queensbreaker, etc. - it was the least annoying meta imo. And I really wanna like the mode, but the Witch Queen ammo change made me give up on it, and the Lightfall State Of The Game proved they never really cared about it once problems came up in Season of Drifter. I also think it's a good example of the game as a whole, because Gambit is the most obvious example of neglect, but most of the game is like this. Like, Bungie gives up if it isn't a smash hit only one, maybe two updates in. And it's a huge shame, cause I remember during the E3 Gambit was revealed at, people lined up allll the way out of the convention center, to the parking lot cause it was so engaging and interesting. Bungie just needed to do ANYTHING aside from the path they ended up taking.

[@Nightstalker3791]

@@samuelhofer7099 I liked that Sleeper was strong because it was a quest reward so it evened up the odds a little and it wasn't a weapon that was either for boss melting or invading so much as others. That's actually good for solo queuing teams. I used to watch the DCP podcast and they brought up that when the meta gets discovered, it's less enjoyable but that could be said for Crucible too. When D1 first launched everyone used whatever they wanted and then as time went on we had sweaty loadouts like Thorn and Firebolts etc. Gambit was actually fairly unique. Perhaps restrcted loadouts (only Gambit approved weapons) or something can be used in it but Bunguie wants everything to be used everywhere. I still remember my Jotunn snipes on 1KV invaders. :)

[@cooper2211]

Legit the only reason i jumped onto destiny was crafting the Raid weapons, i said i'd grind for Vesper's weapons and icebreaker but that rng isn't makijg me enjoy doing the encounters over and over.

[@Septemus_]

Bungies ACTUALLY biggest issue: not shitting on their player base expectations and listening to feedback coming from people who have more time on this game than what’s left of their staff

[@theoldai6737]

Make timegated weapons craftable and raid/expansion weapons enhanceable. You can grind whenever you want with less fomo while the grind for seasonal weapons feels less painful.

[@Wyliwr]

Hot take incoming. Instead of talking about crafting, why don't we talk about making content enjoyable so people will want to replay it. Why get a god roll to use in content that I'll never want to touch again? Why should the best gear be locked behind the hardest content that 90% of the player base will never play more than, I don't know, like two times for me personally. The game is a slog to play now. With or without crafting. Why don't we, as a community, use our collective voice to point the conversation to a more productive topic. Just a thought. I started this game when I was I don't know how old. Now I'm 27 with a family and I have less time. The game, and to a lesser extent the community, have become increasingly hostile to the MAJORITY of players. Just because people have commitments outside of recreation doesn't mean their time should matter less.

[@tash6638]

Big problem, I don’t care what the activity is if the loot isn’t worth while. We need quality cosmetic rng loot, weapons, armor everything. People will grind the most boring activity if the loot is worth the chase. No one is playing the activity to play the activity.

[@Wyliwr]

I think that's a valid perspective to have, but then what happens after you have the loot you want? Do you honestly want to use those weapons in a cookie-cutter, uninspired slog through the same content?

[@ShadowReaperX07]

"The game, and to a lesser extent the community, have become increasingly hostile to the Majority of players" This really needs to be placed higher up in the list. Don't get me wrong, I like difficulty in my video games, i'm quite happy to play Souls and Soul-likes (Destiny is not one of them). But back in Witchqueen, there was a campaign to 'bring challenge back to Destiny'. Now this was partly fine, because they ALSO removed the Seasonal Power Increases that year, freezing everyone at whatever pinnacle cap was at Lightfall launch. You could basically get to Pinnacle cap once, and then be good for 9 to 11 months (I.e. 'The rest of the Destiny year'). But they also power-gated (almost) everything, everywhere. Neomuna Patrol? You're permanently on level, btw enjoy Threshers that one-shot you. Strikes? You're permanently on level. Nightfalls? You're permanently below level. Legend Lost Sectors? You're permanently below level. The only thing you could essentially 'out-level' were old campaigns and old raids/dungeons. But you simply couldn't out-level 'normal' content anymore. So you couldn't just bring your "Wacky 3 Glaive Triton Vice build" because you're gated everywhere you'd want to use it 'for fun' - I.e. You'd be punished more severely for trying to play it in new content, than you would if you tried playing it in something you've done 200 million times in the past. In an even greater irony, Bungie even doubled down on this idea, such that now even older raids and dungeons tend to gate your power in an attempt to 'add back some challenge'. Here's an insight, no one is fucking playing them now. At least back in the day, if a 'bad player' (Read: Casual), just played alot, beyond potentially fucking up the mechanics, they'd at least have decent survivability (because they out-leveled the enemies) and put out decent damage (because they out-leveled the bosses). But now, those casuals (who previously could have contributed, even if they had awful weapons, with their level accounting for some of their damage output) are now shunned from these activities, because the players KNOW that this is 'making it harder than it needs to be'. Between the 'one size fits all' difficulty scaling that they've applied pretty much everywhere (which doesn't bother me beyond the annoyance of rendering certain exotics obsolete, including post 'rework'), and the fact that RNG vs Crafting vastly alters 'time spent playing', it isn't surprising Destiny is an exceptionally poor state. If you wanted a 2/5 Indebted Kindness from Warlords Ruin, assuming you could Load in, and get loot, within 5 minutes. You would need 18 hours of farming, to see your specific 2/5 ONCE statistically. You can see how much worse that would get my altering the time it takes to acquire loot. Meanwhile you take a look at 'Crafted Weapons' of which let's just assume you have to Hard buy a single copy of the weapon each week. I've done every raid in the game (bar Salvations Edge) in less than 60 minutes. But let's assume 60 minutes for 1 Red Border, on a 5 week lock-out. So in 5 hours, i'll have a 5/5 Weapon, but it's just spread out over 5 weeks (where I may not even have to play, if we really take the bad faith argument that once you get a 5/5 you don't play). Which is better? 5 hours GUARANTEED or 18 Hours AVERAGE So the activities become painfully annoying, because they're actively making you work for something. In an activity you've probably done anywhere from tens to hundreds of times before. For a Weapon that, back in Witchqueen, would probably be comparable, or worse, than a Crafted Alternative. For a Weapon that has taken you on Average 3 to 4 times longer to earn, than if it was craftable. Gee, I wonder why no one is playing. I didn't sign up for a second job (or even a part-time one). I play for fun, and the fun is acquiring guns I want to use, and playing content I WANT to play. If I can't play the Content I want to play. And I can't acquire the guns I want to use. I don't play.

[@merrilly-]

You can't just say that there is one thing slowing destiny down right now. I've been playing this game for 10 years, here are only a few things I noticed: -loot looks the same -straying away from gunplay -boring and tedious activities -removing years of good content and replacing it with ^ -new player experience is and always has been garbage -Bungie refuses to experiment with new things in general -prioritizing monetization over experience, which always ends poorly. I could go on and on. I'm tired of waiting for another 'taken king' or another 'forsaken' or all the other major comebacks there have been in the past because I know this game is just never gonna feel the same as it used to fundamentally. I hope marathon's good

[@maleikcleveland631]

They need to bring strike specific loot, farmable bosses that drop specific unique weapons and armor(a new rarity type) bring back old destinations, bring srl back, continue to work on gambit instead of just killing it, bring btb back will all old maps.

[@RyanKelbel]

The problem with this argument is we are now required to grind the same content we've played for several years to get rolls in some way.. RnG drops are fine, but God roll drops don't feel like excitement anymore.. just relief.. that's not the same type of memory. Crafting isn't the enemy, but I do think we should balance it.. we should always still have FUNCTIONING focusing if we aren't going to craft a weapon. My biggest issue with current destiny is things are feeling less farmable for God Rolls and more of a slog to do anything... All upper level PVE is getting more and more of a time investment to complete.. also.. it's the same thing.. just a different day. We need more real changes and we need ALL our content to be available with multiple ways to attain the same rewards.

[@okitava]

"RnG drops are fine, but God roll drops don't feel like excitement anymore.. just relief.. that's not the same type of memory." Exactly. Recently when i tried to get a chill clip Tinasha's, I was completely exhausted just trying to get a chill clip roll itself, so much so that when i FINALLY got one i straight up just quit the game for a few days. I ended up playing a bit more with friends and got a SIGNIFICANTLY better roll but i wasn't even excited, it was just an "Oh cool, I don't have to touch this mode again." Finally getting the drop isn't exciting, I'm just happy i no longer have to grind whatever i was grinding.

[@RyanKelbel]

@@okitava I had this exact same experience and I never even got Chill Clip to drop.. I just got to the end of Iron Banner and was like.. well now I need a break for a while.. and I still don't have it. Lol

[@burning-r2y]

exactly. its the relief of not having to play the same structured activity over and over again, and not the good feeling of it dropping as a low chance rng success. i have felt this way for so long in destiny and i think you worded it perfectly

[@chrissturges8952]

Crafting should exist as bad luck protection, which is what it has been. Even grindy games like Warframe has started to support that where you can grind activities for things OR you can use the currency from said activities to purchase what you didnt get to drop. For example: I can run XYZ activity for an arcane OR I can use the drops from that activity to purchase the arcane if it didnt drop. In Destiny though, crafting also does help as a solution to the vault problem especially with how weapon types, perks, etc are constantly adjusted. The bigger issue though is that if you want to have this game be strictly RNG, then there needs to be loot showers. I shouldnt have to run a 10-15 minute activity for one drop. In Diablo 3, I can run a rift in significantly less time than that and get a ton of loot. Same with Warframe. Take the microcosm of the Dawning where you had to run activities for essence and materials to have a 1 in 6 chance to even get the currency needed to focus for the loot. You need to spend time for RNG currency to use for RNG loot. Hell, if you wanted the emblems you could forgo the weapon and gamble that currency for RNG for cosmetics. And I dont think anyone liked this. Hell, other content creators who are also on the "I think RNG is good" line of thinking all came out complaining about the Dawning and the multilevels of RNG and how stingy it all was to even get the currency to bake cookies. You also have the tonic system which as designed and originally implemented was: grind for materials to craft a tonic to increase drop chance of the weapon you picked, not 100% guarantee it. That only changed after complaints. If you want RNG, then the game needs to be exceedingly generous with its loot. If you want to keep it as is, then crafting should be there as well.

[@RyanKelbel]

@@chrissturges8952 Yeah agreed on that, especially since the RNG grind you have to do with things like Dawning is the same activities you've done for years upon years.. like that feels even less fun and even more grindy.. I understand that it's a free activity to all players, but maybe build in some ways for the seasonal activities to help with the event grind so I can play something not a strike.. This also btw, all revolves around the focusing options you give us for RnG relief.. to actually work. Such as tonics that don't actually give the correct reward..not a great look.

[@SepticEmpire]

Warning: this is long But it’s an opinion based video so expect opinion based comments IMO or at least in my experience, the thing that causing player decline isn’t crafting vs rng drops. The cause is sunsetting (removal of content in any form not just when they removed it before beyond light). Another cause is lack of feedback. There are SOOOOO many things we want but they won’t do, which funny enough crafting WAS something we wanted. An honorable mention is the duality of the community. And lastly and imo the biggest one of all, is a lack of hope. Not just from bad decisions but imo final shape was the end and SHOULD have been the end. Either of d2 to have d3 or of destiny in general. Which to most players to them it was the canonical end, so they left before they saw the game die. Similarly to how people view marvel and how infinity war should have been the end. 10 years just to lose is a better ending than 10 years and a fake loss just to keep the money flowing. To add to this, destiny has no future. We literally have nothing to look forward to besides a single word: “frontiers”. Any other time we at least had some concept of what to expect. Heck I don’t think they are even doing dlcs anymore. If I recall, bungie themselves said we would never get a final shape scaled release ever again. And to many, that means less quality, no features that we been wanting, and overall just making for a stale game. Sure, frontiers does have some changes coming that are good. But to me and many others, it’s too little too late. And not to be that person, but warframe was a wake-up call. Got into it after seeing matics and now I’m glad to see cross enjoy it too. And I know. I’ve been there. Ranting everyday day about what I wish destiny had then seeing a different game have them. It sucks but at least for me, destiny is dead. And I’m just glad I was here long enough to have final shape be my ending, instead of staying and seeing it all fall apart. And this video is confirmation that I made the right choice.

[@DjLuCKyCHaRM]

I understand what you are saying, but I tried Warframe multiple times over the year, kept playing for close to a 100 hours, but never could get into. It's something with the camera angle + recycle of the missions.

[@SepticEmpire]

@@DjLuCKyCHaRM that’s a completely fair reason. Not everything is for everyone. And that is rule one. And everyone should accept this rule. I just pointed out what I think. And yeah there’s things I dislike but eventually got used to just because other aspects were so good. But it’s ok for an aspect to be a make or break. Like even if so much is fun one bad aspect might not be worth it to you even though there’s a lot else to like. I myself haven’t played much warframe and am currently really invested in genshin. Nothing against warframe. Because anything thing is that you can have fun in other games. You should never feel obligated to play a game. Because games after all are meant to be fun. Warframe is fun but just because I’m currently having more fun in genshin doesn’t make warframe any less enjoyable. I’m glad you shared your opinion. And I hope you have found games that are fun without obligation. Though they seem harder to find these days with all the obligatory fomo and paywalls.

[@linorics]

Crafting was the only reason I would grind. This seasons lack of crafting kept me away.

[@serenist]

So how did you play the game before Witch Queen?

[@haslittle8078]

The biggest problem is that I would grind for a godroll, then have to delete it because the sandbox changed and I don't have enough space for bad guns, then the sandbox changes again and I have now deleted a godroll. The psychological damage grinds you down and erases the fun of loot hunting.

[@MrStickWar]

Loot is my 2nd fav part of destiny. My first fav part is the gameplay experience. I love it when my tailored loadout is visually/aesthetically pleasing during the gameplay loop COUPLED with it actually shredding in game. That’s what I consider the small dopamine amounts that bungie gives us and they give it to us frequently. Getting a god roll is a larger dopamine amount but occurs more rarely. Given how my view, I see why playing the game too much would degrade the satisfaction of the actual gameplay loop. You would then be forced to rely on RNG for loot- which is part of the problem. Ig I haven’t played destiny enough to get tired of my builds yet.

[@NevinDouglas82]

RNG: I grind content I don’t necessarily want to be playing for far more time than I’d like to be playing it until I finally get the drop I want (which might never happen). By the time I get the drop I want, I’m so sick of the game that I’m just relieved to stop playing. Crafting: I participate in a short, manageable grind to unlock the pattern, then I craft the roll I want and take it into content that I actually want to play.

[@grandtheftaudio6386]

Then that means they failed in designing enjoyable content - or atleast content that is enjoyable enough. It's also ok to just skip some content if you just find it unfun, sure you might miss out on a piece of gear but that's the trade off you make.

[@223ndog]

Crafting never should have been put into the game. It definitely made players lazier.

[@DangerousDac]

The God Roll dropping is a relic of a past time when Crafting wasn't even a feasible idea. If anything, they should be leaning harder into customisation, hell, LET US CHANGE THE SCOPES VISUALLY AT LEAST LIKE WE USED TO IN DESTINY 1 FFS. I would have LOVED to craft a Chroma Rush, and with it, have the opportunity to change out the silencer or add in a different scope. Oh it too much work - Goddamit, sit me down at a computer and give me the gun models for all the current seasonal drops. I would have new barrells, new scopes, and new stocks made that I could drop in randomly on each gun in a day. You just need to make 2 more barrels and you have 3 to mix and match between. You make 2 more scopes, 2 more stocks, and suddenly you have 84 unique combinations for one gun. Throw in some seasaonal themed overlay things, 495 potential looks for one gun. with 7 extra gun parts. Copy and paste for every seasonal gun that makes sense, and suddenly you've turn 10 guns into 5000 guns. A little of extra work. And you've suddenly created pure randomness in drops.

[@kite2036]

Borderlands works for a reason, and this is it. Being able to SEE what's different about that roll is so much more fun than basically just having a spreadsheet of stats and perks. It turns the loot into a game of counting stats.

[@jk5385]

@@kite2036 Having a visual component to weapon mods would be fantastic, it makes those things feel tangible. You'd actually feel like the gun is yours.

[@BlazingInferno00]

I'd care a whole lot more about weapon reticles than Ghost projections 😂

[@xXxfiewindxXx]

They took out the scope thing because everyone ended up just using the same scope on every gun

[@SavagexRaccoon]

10:30 after lightfall i stopped caring about the game so much when loot was pretty meaningless

[@mrblts]

I miss crafting actually. Crafting isn’t the issue at all.

[@MrCavonta]

The issue with rng vs crafting is they literally coded the game so that certain roles have worse weighting. So its not even real RNG. They make it so your "godroll" is less likely than it should be

[@russellanderson8844]

Hey now. If your gonna shit on borderlands at least put the right one up. Borderlands 2 absolutely does not dump loot on you. That's borderlands 3.

[@AaronShack64]

I enjoy battling enemies and I hate that other players speed run every activity in Destiny just to get to the loot. It's the nature of the game but it is broken.😢

[@chapystick_]

It always comes back to greed. Everyone knows if Pete Parsons was paid a few less millions of dollars a year in salary and bonuses, they could’ve invested in the important things to keep a functioning business. But ultimately it doesn’t matter to those kinds of people, just the mega millions they hoard and refuse to invest anywhere else

[@KingofRGN]

Crafting is the best thing to happen to destiny 2. It makes new lights able to play with better weapons. Everyone is like "destiny is dying😭😭😭" are the same saying "crafting is killing destiny 😭😭😭" crafting saved destiny. We saw what happened when they took away crafting.

[@redder-l8c]

I can't say Warframe missions have a structure different from what you described with Destiny missions. The best thing you can do for your teammates in Warframe is either carry them or keep up, so they can complete the missions faster. The loot you get is always a secret with a '?' icon, which gets revealed at the loot screen when you complete the mission. There is little or no enjoyment when grinding for a mod or arcane in Warframe. The genius of Warframe is the market system. Basically, no matter what you get, you can turn it into plat and get what you actually want. That makes the grind incredibly faster and forces the community systems of Warframe onto the player (genius in my opinion). The only fun I get when playing Warframe is the actual modding part (be it Warframe, weapon, or Railjack) and trying it out. There is something satisfying about seeing 2 million red crits for every hit. And of course, there is always room to improve, but again, that is the modding system. The conclusion is that playing the missions in Warframe is no fun.

[@michaellewis7605]

Wild that in the 2025 we don't have clan housing, customizable ships, and truly randomized encounters.

[@jombii-7090]

Destiny 2 has been the SAME GAME since forsaken. our Guardians evolved over time, but the rest of the game stayed much the same Just like in the video most of the content is completion based, i legitimately have a hard time completing endgame content simply because if i fail for whatever reason thats 20+ minutes i just cranked out for NOTHING

[@sammy_wills]

Destiny's biggest hurdle is that a 3rd of the game was ripped out and now new players cant enjoy the game.

[@chriswall9637]

Wish we had mythic rare armor sets with strong set bonuses. Or the ability to equip any amount of exotics as I want.

[@morriscameron10]

I think what would take it to the next level and give that destiny 3 feel would be for us to leave the sol system. once we leave we lose access to our vault while out of the system which would be a semi sunset. New solar system new weapons,new foundries, new armor and new enemies. Give us a reason for new armor system and new weapon origin traits and archetypes. Support frame autos was a step in the right direction.

[@rjmacready6693]

That's precisely what's happening lol

[@captnpete1514]

What we need is a scrapped season or whatever its called to implement these changes because... Who cares of the story at this point

[@xeryl_]

I think the thing that makes Path of Exile's systems so compelling is that they usually have a downside that comes along with their upside which makes the gameplay feel so active. And Warframe's systems all make time investment feel rewarding because you continue to find out about new systems alongside you just trying to upgrade your character. All of Warframe's systems (same with PoE) all flow into each other and compliment each other.

[@limitbreaker9797]

Crafting isnt the reason for lower player numbers, thats disingenuous and misguided.

[@terminalstupidity4168]

Crafting is absolutely a big part of the declining player base. It takes away the incentive to play the activities when you can just craft a god roll once you unlock the pattern.

[@sammiwammi8539]

Things they can add to bring more interest to the game: - Add Mythic rarity weaponaries: Unique weapon types but still roll with Legendary perks (Or opposite and make them rarer rarity of exotics) Example would be a sweet business gun type but shoots tracking projectiles - Bring back Nightfall specific loot - Add more unlockable shaders / skimmers / ships - Add more variety of summon vehicles like Pikes / Interceptor - Introduce the Tribute hall but recoat it to be the Clan's hall. which shows players triumphs (As mentioned, having Riven's skull for beating petra's run) - Add unlockable pets, nothing game changing but gives motivation to get something - Add more customisation for Darkness class: New melee's & Supers - Make champions more rewarding, make them drop resources or buffs (I.E, Barriers will drop a relic that once activated, drops a wide shield to shoot through and regen hp. Overload will "Overload" your abilities. Unstoppable allows super level resilliance )

[@4am446]

I think we need more of the d1 art style back too. The levelling armour and weapons in d1 was some of the best feeling things to get and I had more hype getting cool rares from strikes that barely ever dropped I n d1 than legendaries just because the art style and feel Like getting a god roll on a rare sniper in the right rpm and with some really cool skin that was the best

[@4am446]

Xerxes-c with focused fire in d1 for example was the only machine gun in the game to shoot at that rpm

[@dochedgehog]

Right, I’m gonna say it for the 100th time and I am blue in the face already from saying it. All these petty complaints are a drop in the ocean. Listen to any non destiny player who has left the game. The main reason for the game’s decline is the develop and throw it away style of content which has amounted to nearly 5 WHOLE YEARS worth of paid content being removed. They make content as shallow as dishwater (looking at you “prison of elders”) to accommodate for their game design. We MMO players aren’t playing the game so the current patch can be removed after 6 months! Content STILL has an expiring timer. You buy final shape deluxe edition in march? We’ll have fun RUSHING through all the seasonal content before it keeps getting yeeted into the “DCV” Y’all will have your own petty minority reasons, drops, crafting, difficulty, game experience, social features, mmo features etc. NONE OF THIS will move the needle. Unless bungie updates their engine and changes there game design TODAY they’re done in the long run. Man I’ve been here from the beginning. D1 alpha until present day. Even I thought this was something they had been working on addressing for years behind the scenes. From the way they spoke about their engine updates I thought this was the end goal? Nope. Go watch any lapsed player(32+ million and counting) explain why they don’t play the game anymore. Majority will say bungie stole content. Disagree if you want. Bungie isn’t coming back from the brink until their “light and dark saga” is playable from start to finish. And their content pipeline is improved so we never have to fear a content patch being removed to “save space” Fuck sake it’s 2025. This is all pre beyond light complaints that they still haven’t addressed. Sorry this is long but it needs to be said. Y’all moaning about crafting or tier loot isn’t gonna make the player base budge.

[@howlety1892]

The RNG Crafting is such a simple fix….and this is how: you can only craft a perk that you’ve earned by RNG…once you’ve earned perks , even on different weapons then you can craft them ….simple 🙄

[@Erauck]

They need to start working on Destiny 3 to get any kind of hype back to the franchise.

[@UwUchibix]

@@Erauck nah they need to lose toxic a holes like you to make the game better

[@DarkDemon259]

In most other loot goblin games (like Borderlands, PoE or Diablo) the glowing yellow/orange drop is always exciting cause you never know what to expect since they are random and offer so many possibilities. Plus they're individually rare/unique enough to be exciting as a potential upgrade. They aren't "mandatory" to make a build work but they improve the builds in ways that make you want them but not need them. Unlike Destiny where exotic armor is borderline mandatory for real build crafting. So hear me out: Exotic Armor 2.0 (after the rework to armor stats) that feeds off the class item concept. Imagine you could get a random drop of Orpheus Rig that had a chance of getting Spirit of Galanor or Gyrfalcon as an additional perk. Sometimes you may just get a regular Mask of Bakris or you could get one that also has Spirit of Renewal. Even redundant options we have on the class items like Shards of Galanor arms with Spirit of Star-Eaters could be used on a regular Solar Subclass with access to Blade Barrage. Meanwhile Star Eater Scales boots with Spirit of Galanor could be used with Mobius Quiver or Gathering Storm (options not available on Prismatic). Dare I suggest a Celestial Nighthawk that drops with Spirit of Star Eaters. It is power creep? You could say that. But exotics and single element subclasses were already power crept by Prismatic. These would be a nice compromise to balance Prismatic's exclusive access to the class items' double perks and give underused exotics a chance to shine with an unlikely combo as a drop. You may never use Blight Ranger on it's own but what if you happened to get a Blight Ranger with Spirit of the Liar...? You probably still won't, but it's an idea and at least you'll look at it for a few seconds before deciding to dismantle it.

[@SuperLalulalu]

It's not crafting that killed destiny, it's the lack of content, reusing the same model for contents, no depth in the episode story, and most importantly the vicious corporate greed. These are what killed destiny.

[@Haywgegruhcysin]

The destiny community is killing the game faster than bungie hahahaha Honestly one of the worst communities I've ever seen!! The amount of gatekeeping/get good is worse than anything Bungie could do. If you don't believe me look at how bad LFG is with KWYD in the title ...

[@JGburneraccount]

Yo cross guess what? DE only has 300 people working there and they are actively working on both warframe and soulframe. So please elaborate how a team of what 800 people at bungie can fumble with over twice the amount of people but do twice as worse.

[@zeromythosver.]

Bad management, the thing we’ve all seen countless articles detailing about Bungie as a studio Also I’m not surprised 300 people can make two quality and well-liked variations of Warframe, considering (imo) it’s a more sauceless game than D2, one probably not as hard to execute for a variety of reasons This isn’t to say that it isn’t still hard to make Warframe games as good as they are, it’s kind of a miracle when any game is better than mediocre ngl, but it’s not as excellent to play as Destiny always has been, so of course it’ll be easier to deliver There’s never going to be a mass exodus of D2 players to Warframe or really any one other game, because Warframe is not on Destiny’s level as far as gameplay, and that’s not really a dig because not much else is-not in a singular package anyway, maybe in bits and pieces across multiple other games, but never all in one

[@JGburneraccount]

@@zeromythosver. I really dont know how Destiny 2 is more "excellent" to play, literally the only thing it does 'really well'...is gun play. and thats not enough.

[@Cataphratii]

Destiny was my favorite game for so long. Warframe is now my number 1. I hate to see a game I grew up with fall.

[@rolandvirag8522]

Crafting’s not the issue and loot drops aren’t the issue. The issue is the quality of the game, the unbelievable amount of bugs, the complete and utter disregard for the community’s wishes and the result of half of the playerbase being ignored for the better part of a decade. How can you expect any other results than this?

[@Tycholarfero]

Said it on other vid, the D3 ideas one, and will say here, there needs to be more affinities and we need to be able to lean into them extremely hard, with effect build ups and passives. Prismatic was a good first step IMO but I think for it to really have an impact, D3 needs to consolidate. I think there is great value in an elemental balance system in Prismatic, where all sub classes are pulled into it but you can decide to build solely into a single element. Imagine there being a screen to either side of the fragments selection showing a group of bars for the elements you have, each filling with their respective element when you slot in fragments and aspects. You can have the standard multi element specialties Prismatic gives on its own, with transcendence behaving the same, but if you equip fully single element stuff, transendence changes to an elemental burst mode; pretend you have Solar and you focus on it entirely, where you suddently get a big bump to all solar damage sources if you focus entirely on that element (weapons, armor, aspects and fragments, and your super all being solar focused). You'd get 2 elemental burst bars or something to compensate no longer having transendences 'avatar state' mechanic. Idk what the burst would be but I think it'd be cool for builds and variety over all. Next, there has to be a passive buildup elemental mechanic, I can't think of any other way to make weapon perks feel better. They suck, bad. When people chase weapons they don't even chase the weapons themselves anymore man, they chase for weapon perk combos and its literally always 1 or 2. I hate subclass verb perks because every other weapon perk sucks ass in comparison they mean quite literally nothing when you could just get a subclass verb perk and clear a room instead. I have thought of something more to help against it being too unbalanced too, and that's by having the transcendence/elemental burst bar be tiered and deplete on usage for the elemental build up stuff. You could have an always applying extremely minor damage effect every few attacks (like jolting feedback for all subclasses, borderlands does something similar) but when you get to a certain point on the bar, you can press the transcendence button to actuvate the subclass verb for a short time/set amount of attacks. Like, have the first section of the bar be dedicated to something like weaken, and you'd tap the button to activate it and use as is; the second section could be the stronger verb if you double tap the button when the bar reaches the point, activating volatile rounds (or if you're at this charge for the bar, you can apply weaken two times in a row, or if you activate before charge reaches second segments maximum, you just get a longer single weaken); the bar reaching the third and final segment of the bar would allow you to long press the button to activate elemental burst/transcendence as normal. I don't have much more ideas atm but I think these could help D3 a lot would def make it more fun honestly. I just want builds around your subclass to mean something cause atm it doesn't feel like they mean much

[@brodysdaddy]

Comparing an old game with a new one is ridiculous. Play PoE for seven years and then tell me how much dopamine is releasing….

[@DjLuCKyCHaRM]

Look at POE 1 it stil gives thay feeling to players.

[@TrippyTigre]

One issue is Destiny is an MMO, but doesn't want to follow any MMO rules. I know everyone hated sunsetting with an extreme passion, but what happens in every MMO? New expansion, new levels, new skills, all your gear becomes antiquated. I haven't changed my build basically since I learned the game. Maybe once a year I'll swap out a single weapon. I just have no reason to play outside of 'the game is fun' and after 2k hours I don't have fun in 80% of content. Grinding to check boxes doesn't do it for me anymore, I shed my fomo, and I've been fighting the exact same enemies basically since release. I think only a D3 with SIGNIFICANT changes would bring me back to the franchise. If I smell the same seasonal format, I'll drop the series forever.

[@cloudcity4194]

The worst thing about Destiny? The thing that's killing it? The problem? The community and it's CONSTANT barrage of "it's dead", "it's broken", "it sucks", "it's garbage", "it's over". Doesn't it get tiresome complaining about a game for TEN F*CKING YEARS!?!? Doesn't it get tiresome to seek out and ingest "content" that is designed to bring down the thing you like, to complain, to hasten the demise just so you can say, "SEE!! I TOLD YOU 14,000 YEARS AGO THE EARTH WAS GOING TO EXPLODE! Now I'm right and I'm a smartie!!!!!"

[@mrgq2000]

The issue is that games cannot just focus to casual players or hardcore players...they need to cater to anyone that wants to play the game. And they are failing at both right now. Also, PvP and PvE gear should be separate. If you want PvP gear, you need to play PvP and if you want PvE gear you play PvE. World of Warcraft realized this more than a decade ago and they fixed the balancing issue in PvE / PvP.

[@prestonphillips473]

Destiny could adopt WoW's raiding system, easy mode with auto group finder and few raid mechanics, regular normal mode where you make your own teams, hard/master level raids for the sweaty no-lifers/streamers who do world first raid weekends. Don't let exotics drop from easy modes or S tier roll weapons so the elites wont freak out but use it as a teaching method for new players cause the raids are CRAZY intimidating for a new player. This would help them feed into normal/hard mode raids/dungeons. There's ZERO good ways to introduce raiding and dungeons in Destiny 2, let alone how to craft a build, spec, and weapon rotation, and tell players that rockets aren't always the best heavy weapon. There needs to be a "new light's first raid mode" and "Osiris' recommended builds" where he tells you why you should equip certain things together and to discover more on your own. I love this game, but we all know it's hard for new lights to break into it and that needs to change if this game is going to survive. Award players for how they want, and are able to, spend their time to earn the same things: if someone can only log in 4 hours a week they can work down a pathfinder style list to get a targeted gun to drop and do it again next couple days/week, if someone can no life a game and farm it on 3 characters or dungeon farm and uses checkpoint spawns, let them. Az says people remember when an exotic drops or an Stier roll weapon drops after farming forever, BUT the reverse is true too. People remember when a first time raider in Vault of Glass comes who doesn't know the fight and clears adds and gets the Stier roll or exotic weapon on their first time while everyone else has run it 100s without luck. There need to be better targeted drop systems in place or let people build currency by killing enemies with a specific weapon to then go buy a random roll of that weapon or more for specific rolls. The respect for players time needs to change from this predatory casino style it was built on.

[@fluentgamer8611]

Cross, poe2 has the worst crafting system in any arpg I’ve ever seen. I’d rather see Last Epoch’s crafting system make its way into D3.

[@yaboyschnieds891]

I think that crafting should only be given to free-to-play weapons. World drop weapon? Craftable. New raid/dungeon weapon? Random rolls. Reprised raid? Craftable. This would satisfy both sides: gives a chase for the best gear in the game (pay walled weapons) and makes it easier for free-to-play/average players to get the weapon roll they want from other activities. However, once a dlc goes free (We can hope) or the activity/source gets vaulted (think seasonal activities), then those weapons become craftable (with either slightly updated perks or the same rolls). This also means that any weapon from Xur would be craftable and thus should only require 1-3 red borders since the loot pool is so big. Allow Banshee to sell a small rotation of weapons per day/week where people can go play the slot machine to get their red border world drop/vaulted activity weapons. This may be a bit too much crafting but I think it would especially allow new players or returning players to not immediately feel hopeless that they can't craft a past seasonal weapon or get the roll they want. Idk just an idea

[@ItsLightless]

Playing Destiny in 2024/2025 feels like 95% Busy work and 5% actual enjoyable content. Everything feels like an annoying little chore with no REAL substance or purpose behind it.

[@vugolol]

The corruption idea to exotics is ok but I think it should be more on a random roll suffix/prefix like Diablo and PoE does where for example, specific exotics in different slots of your armor can roll a specific pool of increment buffs so let's say for example Exotic Gloves being able to roll one of these 4 things: Increased Draw and Reload Speed x%, Increased melee ability damage x%, Increased grenade ability damage x% or Decreased Grenade and Melee ability cooldown -xs, now like I said these specific stats would only roll on exotic gloves as it makes the most sense on the usual effect of gloves plus mods, now imagine you get the perfect roll of something like Contraverse Holds with the Grenade Ability damage x% as the inherent roll BUT the roll itself also ranges between a certain numeric value so say between 5% to 25%, so you could get an unlucky roll of like 6% damage increase or get the absolute max god roll Contraverse Holds which is now dealing +25% Grenade Ability damage to combatants, AND now hear me out, you can choose to use something like a Glass Needle to try to improve this Contraverse Holds by adding another one of the other 3 possible attributes which in this case you'd probably want the decreased cooldown option, you end up using and BOOM you hear a crackling glass breaking sound, and now you lost your gamble and the Contraverse Holds went back to being a basic bitch version with no added attributes. I don't think that things like that would break the game as we get artifact modifiers that do just as much increase to our powers all the time, and a lot of exotics would probably get some much needed love if you were able to roll just the right thing into it if it was an option and I know I personally would farm the fuck out of sources if I could try to get the perfect improvement roll, as stats really aren't that crazy (I know they are changing it soon with the whole Tier 11 thing but eh).

[@otherbassist]

Multi-element weapons could spice things up for a hot minute. During the Craftening, I made hand cannons with Voltshot + Hatchling (reload before the threadlings attack to give them jolt--reload after to keep jolt with your next bullet) and bows with Headstone + Incandescent. These were the some of the most fun interactions in the game. Maybe make "corrupted" drops have a chance to roll with the "wrong" perks.

[@vruxdrossgaming]

Could make prismatic weapons instead, where the weapon changes elements based on the ability you use with prismatic while having perks like headstone, incandescent, etcetera.