B-17 vs Lancaster's Engines

[@FlakAlley]

Did the British Merlin win the war, Or did the American Wright / Pratt and Whitney series play a bigger part?

[@venatorspar90]

Merlin for the win

[@SalmanMentos]

Merlin powered the most influential planes like the p51 and spitfire so

[@Wyowanderer]

Hard working men (mostly) of the RAF and USAAC "won the war". The Merlin vs. Wright /B17 vs. Lancaster thing is like a couple junior high school boys arguing whether their daddies Chevrolets or Fords were better. Horses for courses - in this case, BOTH planes and their engines were great. Let's get off our high horses and admit that both were good to do the job they were assigned to do - eighty years ago.

[@bobrivett7645]

No way did one single engine type win the war, it contributed as did all engine designs, aircraft, ship, and vehicles. What really won the war. The people...men and women of Allied nations, as well resistance forces. Period.

[@percyprune7548]

A true Briton hears the Merlin and feels a shiver through their body, it's perfect music. No other engine has that sound capable of charging the soul.

[@sixfootbear]

four..Lancaster..

[@beerfanboy]

I agree. I live 40 minutes from the only flying Lancaster in Canada. I hear it at least once a year and I always go out to look for it. Those engines are just beautiful to hear.

[@neild3074]

A merlin Mustang flew past my apartment on Port Phillip Bay Melbourne Austalia just a month ago. As soon as I heard it I grabbed my binoculars and ran to the balcony. I guess it was the same plane that was performing at the 2024 Melbourne GP. You can't confuse that sound, it is iconic.

[@patrickradcliffe3837]

The other benefit of aircooled radial was that cylinders were seperate from each other and could be swapped out piecemeal without the need to replace the whole engine like the Merlin.

[@gracelandone]

Let us not forget the Merlin helped make the P-51 Mustang the formidable fighter it was

[@jimsmith7212]

Mosquitos too.

[@philiphumphrey1548]

It depends what you put it in. It really didn't work with the Bolton Paul Defiant (not enough power to drag along a second crew member in a rotating turret), and wasn't so hot in the Fairey Fulmar naval fighter either, similar problem not enough power for the size of the plane and the extra crew member.

[@briankemp5206]

A total of 7,377 Lancaster's were built during its production run. A total of 12,700 B-17 bombers were built. A total of 18,493 B-24 Liberators were built, more than any other aircraft in World War II.

[@michaelegan6092]

I think that a better comparison would be the Halifax against the B17.They had air cooled radials and had a better loss rate than Lancasters.Look youself for the information.

[@TheTitaniumSkull]

Radial engines are like music to my ears.

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment and support on the TheTitanium! If you replay the first few seconds of the video and compare, both sound just as good as each other in different ways :) Some of the best sounding engines of the war

[@vinnynj78]

I've managed to get as close to a taxiway to watch a B-17 take off. The noise was heavenly. Then the He-111 took off. Those engines are ear-splitting.

[@FlakAlley]

@@vinnynj78 The He-111 is that loud!? Never would have guessed

[@AdmV0rl0n]

Had to fight with what they had. In the late 30s, basically it became critical in terms of outcome to get an engine. That engine was not Peregrine, Kestrel, or similar. That fell to Merlins. Arguments can be made until the cows come home about x/y/z - but the bulk Merlin production was critical to *not* losing the war. In the beginning. 3000 Hurricanes went to the Russians. Until later in the war, upgraded units were fitted to the bulk of RAF fighters, and bombers. The late era Griffon planes picked up from there. The Brits had some other engines - and all development had to share in very limited resources. Those other engines were not free of issues. The bomber offensive - which has a lot of issues, and really only broke the back of the enemy at the end - had a day and night aspect. The day aspect worked in the end not merely by B17 and B24 success, but by breaking the luftwaffe defense and day fighters. And how was that done? By placing a Merlin in a P51. Its too simplistic to say anything won the war. Many engines contributed to winning the war. The engines contributed, but the greatest Generation bore the brunt. It is they, and those who supported them - whom won the war.

[@beavis6363]

The guys running the motor pool to keep the red eye express going 24/7 across France might have a different opinion. There where all types of engines in all types of machines, each contributing to the defeat of the axis powers. The merlin engine was "the one engine" that won the war is a rather vapid statement. I have seen both these aircraft in flight in Geneseo NY and I will confess the sound of four merlins was amazing. The greatest generation, I salute.

[@didierdenice7456]

it doesn't really matter ! it's the Soviet who won the war in Europe . 80% of Nazi (human and material) losses were done on the Eastern Front . Something the Brits and the Americans still have a hard time to swallow 80 years later...

[@philiphumphrey1548]

The British had a superb alternative engine, the Bristol Hercules which was an air-cooled radial engine with sleeve valves. The Handley Page Halifax heavy bomber performed significantly better with Hercules engines than it did with Merlins. The same was true of the twin engine Bristol Beaufighter night-fighter/ground attack plane. The only problem with the Bristol Hercules was limited supply early on because of production difficulties.

[@unclenogbad1509]

It's the old trade-off between performance and reliability - and there's never been any good middle ground between the two. The Merlin was the best for sheer power, but as you say, it had terrible risks in combat and kept ground crews working flat out. The Wright would get you there and, importantly, get you back again, all with a minimum of fuss. Some tasks need a thoroughbred, some need a workhorse - both contributed to victory, but it's the crews who should get the ultimate credit.

[@speedtwin5t]

What won the war was the ability of the Allied Factories to produce massive amounts of weapons and supplies.

[@davidbeattie4294]

If the Allies could only have one aero engine my pick would be the P&W R2800. The Merlin was fabulously successful, powering the Lancaster and P-51 to brilliance, to say nothing of the Hurricane and Mosquito. If I could only have one though, it would the the powerful and dependable P&W.

[@sixfootbear]

You couldn't fit the P+W to a Spitfire,Hurricane,P-51,Boston,Wellington,Lightning.. Merlin..Well with a bit of ingenuity. :)

[@KenJJamesK]

... but the Lancaster could carry 14,000lbs of bombs against the B17's 8,000lbs. Then there was the modified Lancaster that carried the 22,000lbs Grand Slam bomb

[@jimmunro4649]

22.000 LB not 14.000lb

[@PaxAlotin]

@@jimmunro4649 Normal payload was 14,000 lbs.

[@ericadams3428]

@@PaxAlotin Maximum normal (unmodified ) payload B mark I 14,000lb, B Mark III 18,000lb

[@pshehan1]

Did the Merlin engines have anything to do with the much heavier bomb load the Lancaster could carry, 22,000 lb (10,000 kg) Grand Slam earthquake bombs compared to the B-17 with a payload up to 4,800 lb (2,200 kg) of bombs on two racks in the bomb bay behind the cockpit? Also, the Mosquito bomber nicknamed the "Wooden Wonder" was powered by twin Merlin engines. It had a maximum speed in excess of 400 miles (640 km) per hour and a range of more than 1,500 miles (2,415 km) with a 4,000-pound (1,816-kg) bomb load. The P51 Mustang became a legend when they replaced the Allison V-1710 engine with a Merlin.

[@jpaulkepler4638]

Radial engines are easier to maintain and repair. Individual cylinders and pistons can be replaced as a unit. Air cooling is simpler and does not require the added weight of radiators , the coolant and related hoses. The Merlin does sound amazing though.

[@thesnazzycomet]

What if… a B-17 with merlins

[@lambastepirate]

It was done with one and it was a good bit faster here is a link and it was a better looking plane also. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_XB-38_Flying_Fortress

[@DavidShand-s6f]

@@lambastepirate not a Merlin swap but an Allison.

[@AndreasGlad-rq7vx]

Like choosing between a US V8 or a Jag V12. I will have both please.

[@robtob360]

What about the r2800?

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment and support on the channel Rob! We did think to include this however it was a more fair comparison with just the 2 mentioned. The B-29 had the most powerful and modern engine of them all and it truly did end the war when it was required. Merry Christmas btw

[@kevinfrerichs8589]

The air cooled engines won the war, by the end of the war the British where even running round air cooled engine, the Germans where even making more air cooled engines like the FW 190, and the Spitfire was replaced some what by the Hawker sea Fury, and Hawker Typhoon.

[@scrumpydrinker]

The UK had both inline and radial engines in production for many years and no, we did nor abandon water cooled inline engines. Rolls Royce had the Crecy in initial development, this was a 16 cylinder 2 stroke with sleeve valves and Napier were still further developing further their Rapier. What caused the death knell for these engines was the rapid development of gas turbine technology which made piston engines rapidly becoming obsolete for military use.

[@JohnClevenger-ts2pg]

Amazing content as usual. I love the information about WWII aircraft and the personnel

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment and support on the channel John! Merry Christmas :)

[@JohnClevenger-ts2pg]

@ Merry Christmas to you my friend. Keep up the good work My favorite UTube channel

[@FlakAlley]

@@JohnClevenger-ts2pg Thanks so much John :) that's very kind of you

[@drewclarke5920]

My stepfather flew the Lancs...the earlier versions had radials...He preferred these radials over the merlin He did 36 missions dfc died this spring at 100. l read his logbook many times...For his birthday one year l gave him a large framed print of a Lanc.with Merlins mid-air...his first comment was how much he disliked that merlin upgrade...he later confessed to liking the plane tho'....Merry Christmas everyone.

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment Drew, amazing to hear. The Radials would have gotten him home. Do you happen to have any stories from your Stepfather which we can share on the channel? Would be more than happy to dedicate a video to his memory. Merry Christmas :)

[@drewclarke5920]

@@FlakAlley at my insistence he wrote a semi-auto biography titled "Necessary Dark" by Robert G Harlow...it is available online but very few hard copies were printed... One day they were all set to go on a "run" over Germany...Bob did his pre flight and had a bad magneto...He refused to take her up...this resulted in him being "ordered" to go...He refused as was his right...The crew were ordered off the plane and another crew were put aboard...as the whole field watched the old Lanc loaded with fuel and bombs... climbed to 500 feet and blew out of the sky....

[@FlakAlley]

​@@drewclarke5920 Thanks for sharing this Drew, will have a look right away. That is Tragic to hear, rest in peace to the crew who were ordered to take that Lancaster up. They likely didn't have the experience of your Step father to understand that it couldn't fly and the person commanding them to do it didn't have a clue on how magnetos worked.

[@drewclarke5920]

@@FlakAlley for those who do not know..each gas engine even today has two magneto's these operate independantly and fire the spark plugs only one mag is used and the second is a spare in case the first one fails...in this case there was something not right with the second mag which is tested each time the pilot does his pre-flight run-up..the voltage output has to be up to par or the plane is deemed not airworthy by the pilot...as for Bob's experience...he was just a kid...maybe 23 or 24 .

[@JamesHolbrook-eh5sp]

@@drewclarke5920 merry Christmas to you too, sir!

[@philprice3870]

The Merlin Engine was in several different WW2 planes,both bombers & Fighters ,How many planes used the Wright engines supplied to the B-17?

[@nobodyhome8148]

Merlin powered Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs, Mosquitoes, Lancasters etc. etc........ there is no comparison lol

[@ekspatriat]

comparison to what?

[@nobodyhome8148]

@@ekspatriat seriously? read the title and work it out.

[@TK-221]

You forgot one crucial comparison. Which sounds better?

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment TK, You are correct. It is a very important part of any aircraft engine however if you do replay the start of the video a few times, wouldn't you agree that they both sound as good as each other in their own way?

[@TK-221]

@FlakAlley agree. I had a chance to see them both fly in England and both gave me goosebumps

[@FlakAlley]

@@TK-221 Brilliant! The Lancaster fly past is one of the most beautiful sounds you can ever hear, perhaps only topped by the Vulcans howl ;) that is bone shatteringly Loud!

[@PaxAlotin]

Merlins played a big role in Europe - but a negligible role in the Pacific. However - B-17's & Liberators flew against Germany & Japan - so overall - I'd say - the Wright / Pratt & Whitney's won the war.

[@didierdenice7456]

excellent video ! 👍 thank you ! But it doesn't really matter ... In the end it's the Soviet who won the war in Europe . 75% of Nazi (human and material) losses were done on the Eastern Front . And these were real MILITARY losses unlike the 800.000 civilians killed by the RAF and USAF in mass bombardment of cities... somehting the Soviets never did. Brits and the Americans still have a hard time to swallow that 80 years later...

[@philsmith2444]

There’s nothing at all hard to swallow about that, those civilians armed, clothed, and fed the German military. The Soviets never carpet-bombed Germany because they had nothing with the range to reach Germany.

[@KauppaKomissaari]

Shit isnt black and white this or that its a combination of things gray. Generally merlin ended up powering a ton of aircraft but so did the cyclone, double wasp, Allisons and others not counting cargo and troop transport aircraft or use of aircraft radials in m4 shermans and m3 stuarts.

[@jsmutny]

The Merlin is a great engine, when built by Packard.

[@zillsburyy1]

Lancaster carried bigger bombs , but the flying fortress brought you home

[@jimmunro4649]

Lancaster did long Mission 30 many did way way more one crew did over 128 missions

[@paulvernon4160]

The Merlin engine was certainly used in more planes, heavy bombers to fast fighters and everything in between, it was produced in the uk and America(under licence) it was the engine that was used to win the battle of Britain, without which the war would have been very different. The Merlin kept Britain in the fight and it's Britain as a staging ground, that led to the victory in the end, there would have been no D-Day landings mounted from American shores, it just wouldn't have been possible logistically, so yes directly and indirectly the Merlin did win the war

[@RemusKingOfRome]

..Do you want to know more ? ..

[@FlakAlley]

Sure! What is it

[@BenPortmanlewes]

Yes because the Americans were late as usual the invasion of the UK was stopped by 2 fighters using the merlin,and, what would they have put in their Mustangs?

[@JamesHolbrook-eh5sp]

We Americans thought it was the European Cup, that's why we didn't join the game. The way you Brits talk about it, you had them Germans up against the wall at Dunkirk. Then you complained about us for being useless, which we probably were for a year or so. But then, so were you guys at the start. But we love y'all just the same. A Yank living in the UK ❤

[@nickdanger3802]

please direct me to the agreements that required the USA to join in every time Britain declared war on Germany 100 octane "thanks both to pre-war agreement and wartime sales arrangements, American suppliers delivered sufficient quantities of performance-enhancing 100 octane fuel to England in time for use by Fighter Command during the Battle of Britain." page 84 The Burning Blue Addison and Crang Faber and Faber Ltd London WCIB 3DA "The Merlin XX incorporated a number of revisions based on early operational experience and the availability of 100 octane fuel from America." "It had been intended to utilise the evaporative cooling system but was replaced by the more reliable ethylene glycol liquid cooling system developed in the United States." "During the Battle of Britain it was discovered that the Merlin engine would cut out when pursing Me109s in a high speed bunt dive due to fuel starvation in the float controlled carburettor. Initial solutions involved inverting the aircraft into the dive and also the fitting a restrictor in the fuel supply line and a diaphragm known as Miss Shilling’s orifice, named after the female inventor (Beatrice Shilling) based at Farnborough at the Royal Aircraft Establishment. More permanent solutions involved moving the fuel outlet from the bottom of the carburettor to half way up and the use of fuel injection using a Stromberg pressure carburettor (on Allison engines from 1938, ND) and finally an SU injection carburettor." The Spitfire Society Merlin page

[@charlrichardengelbrecht5269]

Wildly inaccurate information.

[@dogwalker666]

The Merlin was the greatest sounding engine of all time.

[@FlakAlley]

Thanks for the comment and support on the channel Dogwalker! They do sound beautiful, though if you replay the first few seconds of the video and compare the two the B-17s sounds pretty good too!

[@dogwalker666]

@FlakAlley Agreed, They are great sounding as well, Also the Olympus has a special place.

[@FlakAlley]

@@dogwalker666 Thanks for the comment Dogwalker, the Vulcans howl is another one of those sounds that rank up there. For Jets it may be the best. If you have ever heard one in person it rattles your bones

[@dogwalker666]

@FlakAlley I have been at air displays with Vulcan doing a flyby, The howl as you say was amazing, I have also been on the apron when Concord took off.

[@FlakAlley]

@@dogwalker666 Lucky you! Never had the chance to hear Concorde, how would you describe that sound? Still see it at the airport. Beautiful machine

[@06colkurtz]

Of the 12800 B17s 4700 were lost = 36%. Of the 7400 Lancasters 3700 were lost = 50% Do the math. The Lancaster flew too low, could not hit anything smaller than a large city, and killed HALF its crews. Its pretty clear that the Lancaster was a deadly weapon, but it was deadly for its crews and very ineffective as a bomber.

[@BlackMasterRoshi]

how many sorties did they fly though

[@nobodyhome8148]

Twaddle

[@percyprune7548]

No bomber came close to the total bomb load carried by Lancasters throughout the war. Some even made it back on one engine. The Lancaster carried 2 1/2 X the bomb load of a B17. As for hitting anything smaller than a city, it hit the Tirpitz well enough, and 3 dams, and the Bielefeld viaduct. The mathS prove what did most to win the bombing war.

[@sixfootbear]

@@BlackMasterRoshi A tour on RAF Bomber Command was thirty missions.Oh and ineffective bomber? 617 Squadron and others..

[@tinymonster9762]

Can anybody smell Soaringtractor?

[@johnforrester9120]

B17 was shit compared to the lanc

[@johnathanburke4872]

Debatable

[@nickdanger3802]

IWM Life And Death In Bomber Command 7. Men were sometimes injured or killed by striking parts of the aircraft after jumping. Only 25% of airmen safely exited Halifaxes and Stirlings, a mere 15% from Lancasters. Freeman Dyson - Problems in bombing policy and aircraft design kzbin.info/www/bejne/oX2lc3xujNOlnM0

[@Paulftate]

america 1st ... maga baby maga 👍

[@dogwalker666]

Lol, President musk and first lady trump prefer Russia to USA.

[@Charlie_Prinz]

👌👌👍👍😎😎🍻🍻🔥🔥🤘🤘🍺🍺🍺 Merry Christmas all!!!!!

[@jimsmith7212]

MAGA would have joined the Nawtsees.

[@KernelFault]

This mouth breather does not represent all Americans.

[@dogwalker666]

@@jimsmith7212 The leader is.

[@HeavensGremlin]

Shite video.