B0XX and Frame1 Review/Comparison

Wow, that took more time than I thought it would haha, I have gained even more appreciation for the good hardware review channels out there.
Hope you all enjoy the vid!
If you have any questions feel free to leave them in the comments, or message me on Discord. I'll be responding more slowly until December 26th or so as I'll be with my parents for Christmas.
Take care, and happy holidays!
HaTaa's force curves: chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata#/
My force curves: www.craneslab.xyz/projects/fc
Discord: / discord
Twitter: / crane1195
I set up a donation link for people who appreciate the video and wish to donate. Donations are greatly appreciated, but are far from necessary:
www.paypal.com/donate?hosted_...

[@yuliyaivanova4448]

Bro this review was so insanely in-depth lmao

[@erens-basement]

That’s such an understatement. Less than 5 min in the video he pulls out an Excel analysis with simulations on the lifespan of the buttons lol

[@PizzaHandhelds]

Lmaooooo

[@elonmuskaccount324I]

The fuck do you expect

[@yolobuttrill]

Everybody already said it a dozen times, but holy fuck I watched the whole 30 minutes because this review goes above and beyond. I play melee on a mechanical keyboard and definitely eyed the frame1 when I saw its release, and now seeing more of the nuts and bolts has me convinced I need one. Thank you Mr. Keyboard Wizard for your work in showing everything in such a cool, matter-of-fact data spree. It seriously helps

[@KalebSDay]

You've earned the title -- Gamers Nexus of Smash Bros

[@CranesLab]

I love GN, they definitely inspired me in wanting to collect data and whatnot to try and explain myself haha.

[@duck7496]

IT'S A CHRISTMAS MIRACLE

[@bonkashi4012]

I don't play melee, I don't play any fighting games besides rivals of aether and i certainly don't plan on getting a box, but the sheer amount of effort and thought into this review is incredible, and certainly appreciated even by someone who understands none of it.

[@cairnsaiden]

Legendary video. Instantly donated P.s. thanks for helping me with my ghettobox today. Youre the goat

[@NormalitySSBM]

thanks for this review! I have been real curious about the Frame1 box

[@nickwannn]

this video just confirms to me that anyone who knows keyboard switches will have an appropriate eye for quality good shit homie

[@Danaatjebananaatje]

Thanks so much for this elaborate review! Not only useful, but also massively informative and interesting :] I had already ordered the Frame1 light but I am happy to hear that it is so solid, especially since I considered a B0XX before. Seems like the best starter of the 3 for sure! Now even more excited about getting it in the mail ^^

[@1337AceOfSpades1337]

Wow, I ordered a B0XX a few days ago, but this video has completely changed my mind. Just cancelled my order for the B0XX and bought a Frame1 Heavy, (which apparently is shipping sometime in Jan compared to the B0XX which is set to ship in Feb) Thank you for this very objective informative review! :)

[@AL-lh2ht]

It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.

[@nightcorehamster]

oh no no no

[@TOSBabyBuffalo7023]

@@AL-lh2ht B0XX stepped it up too, they have MX switch options and Matte options now, I wanted a Frame1 but it's just never available for pre-order

[@magicbread8111]

Do you have your frame1?

[@slimjimoil93]

​​@@magicbread8111Probably doesn't their customer service is terrible

[@d4rkz3r011]

This is an amazing video! As a keyboard enthusiast myself, I super appreciated all the switch comparisons! I've replaced all my arcade stick buttons and Hitbox buttons with Gamer Finger buttons so the Frame1 was an immediate attraction for me. Also, all your tests were amazing!! This is one of the most informative videos I've ever seen on a video game controller. I didn't really notice all the editing things you mentioned in the beginning because of how good the video content was :D Definitely picking up a Frame1 when I can thanks to you

[@CranesLab]

Thanks a bunch! Glad the noobish editing wasn't too noticable haha

[@ramihanna6648]

holy shit. this review deserves award or trophy or something. this is the most in-depth informative review for anything i’ve ever seen

The kind of person who buys a force curve measuring tool is the kind of person I want to be friends with

[@KurtMage]

THIS is an insanely thorough review. Great watch

[@CondeFombrilac]

Informative & unbiased, couldn't ask for more. Thank you.

[@cyfer115]

This is a great video! I am totally inexperienced with all of this stuff so thank you for going above and beyond with walking me through all the questions I had going into this review. If I do decide to purchase a controller alternative to a GCC, it will be the frame 1 over the b0xx. Thanks again!

[@popanda3652]

insane quality here. love this review. i can tell you have alot of passion for these controllers. the way you can articulate feelings and textures is masterful. preach brother, prech also do more reviews of things. idc what it is ill watch it

[@francisconango2755]

deserves more than 4.5k views. hope after ppl start talking about it more after ppl get their hands on them they come to your video first. ur great!

[@anvo775]

This video is fucking crazy in-depth holy shit. Good job brother

[@griffith6815]

Just in time when i needed the most. Thanks you 🙏

[@betyoudontgothisname]

I have a F1 light on the way with blue buttons, it's really cool to see what how it's gonna look! Very good video! keep it coming Crane!

[@Bigjazzband32]

Wasn't sure about my Frame1 Light before this vid, but was convinced after it. And luckily I bought it when I did because shit is SOLD OUTTT. Thanks crane!

[@CranesLab]

no prob haha

[@mavalanche_]

Suuuuper sick video. Keep up the quality content man! We need more high quality videos like these in the melee community. Subscribed!

[@LendinSwiftbolt]

I just ordered a Frame1 Light earlier this week and I'm super excited for it. After seeing this my current questions/concerns were pretty silenced, especially since I was considering doing DIY before I decided to order this. Thanks for the video.

[@jadelag]

How long is shipping?

[@LendinSwiftbolt]

@@jadelag If I remember correctly, Greg said that the controllers would ship out roughly around late January or so, give or take some time with delays. I'd check the website and/or the Discord for more info. I don't know how long it's going to take once it's shipped.

[@idlehour]

This review is extremely in-depth. Down to showing the calculations for the presses. I was just interested when i saw this come up in my recommended and i saw the best review for something i have no intentions on buying. I was throughly interested throughout lol. Thank you. Keep it up. :)

[@CranesLab]

Glad you liked it! I never expected it to be randomly recommended, much less interesting for those who weren't already into these types of controllers. I'll try to improve the video production value in my upcoming projects, because the echo/lighting in this video annoys me to no end lmao.

[@maxmiller7234]

This video is really great! Thanks for making it, I really enjoyed it :)

[@ventross4149]

amazing review, thanks for your insight and dedication :)

[@TheEvilmonkey25]

This was SO GOOD. I absolutely cannot belive this is your first video. Turned on notifications.

[@towenaar7422]

I was just thinking about buying a box style controller to try and this couldn't have come at a better time. Thank you so much, wonderful work.

[@AL-lh2ht]

It's funny now the BOXX is the only one of these smash arcade boards that can actually be bought. Frame1 has been out of stock for a pretty long time.

[@mattcupp8506]

This is an amazing review. Now I just need to find out how to work this into my budget. Might take a couple of months but I will make it work.

[@goon4744]

this guy just comes in and drops a banger video with nothing else on his channel lol

[@CranesLab]

Haha I mostly post stuff on github/discord, but I figured a video would suit this information best. I do have a few plans for other videos though, like DIY tutorials and other reviews

[@goon4744]

@@CranesLab well, you’ve got my sub. i’m excited to see them!

[@bramchowder]

this video is insanely high quality, really hoping for more vids in the future!

[@CranesLab]

Thanks! I have a few ideas for videos that I'd love to make sometime in the future. It might be a little while though as I'm pretty busy with university, looking for jobs, and other projects.

[@0mnis14sh]

Great idea with the O rings. Will have to play around with that for sure

[@MrLoisix]

really good explanation, please do more technical stuff like this is really interesting

[@WastedFlan]

Appreciate the details here, thanks. I've been looking at boxx style controller in the last half year as I've been dealing w hand problems but not rly been pushed over the edge yet, mainly because of the boxx being pricy and seeming slow to get produced/ship, and being hesitant about having to make the transition. Considering it much more now with the frame1!

[@bagsotr]

i dont know how i got here but this is an insanely well made video, keep it up!

[@kendalljackson9326]

You're the man crane! Awesome video, subbed

[@MrSetblade]

Really good in-depth review. I subscribed.

[@imogensheep]

this is an awesome video. Thank you

[@Potatoracing33]

Crazy good review, thanks for the insight!

[@r4nd0msh1t]

Nobody has ever deserved my sub more than you. This was a great review, hope you have a few thousand subs in the next few weeks!!

[@TurboSmurfHDRemix]

Incredible review. Thank you!

[@kyles5960]

Thank you for this, I’ve been debating whether getting another controller or not

[@TheArcadeStick]

One of the GOAT fighting game controller reviews on KZbin!

[@rainbowgg___]

excited to watch. Just got a frame 1 by sheer circumstance. 1 day in im already schmooovin

[@LethalScopes]

Goated review, thanks for the information.

[@wansvans7500]

not even buying one but i still watched the whole video. great work

[@user-dh6id9hq3d]

What is this this vid answered all the questions one might have for the digital controllers and also give such a lust and in depth understanding of working of a digital controller. How sad this does not get the views it deserves.

[@CranesLab]

I am glad you liked it! I would have been happy if the video helped at least one person learn something, so I am very happy that the video has been seen 25k times!

[@LyndanTylor]

Amazing. I've been looking into and designing my own box controllers with my custom layout and I'm surprised I haven't found you until now. I love how in-depth you went on so much, but I kinda wish you touched on the software side of each box as well.

[@CranesLab]

The software is pretty similar between them. The only differences are that the B0XX has a couple of extra timing based nerfs which are not required in any ruleset, and the Frame1 plans to have an input remapper.

[@ashtonn2497]

I rarely write comments but I want you to know that this video was amazingly informative and you did an excellent job.

[@CranesLab]

Thanks a lot!

[@milkydudz8709]

As a fellow keyboard nerd this made me really happy.

[@Zamiell]

Excellent video! Thank you!!!!

[@nickfanella602]

You are a lifesaver! Thank you!!!

[@jdestroyer9721]

I love this video because it is difficult to find any footage or reviews of this I would love to see it in action or melee or ultimate

[@dimeq]

This video is ridiculously good; one of the most technical/in depth review videos I've seen in general. One thing I wanted to bring up is that there might be other considerations for using Sanwa buttons over mechanical keyboard switches for fighting game controllers (other than just following tradition/trying to match arcade cabinets). Given that mechanical switches are cheaper, more durable, and can require less actuation force, it seems like they'd be a no brainer for any fight stick maker, but they're pretty uncommon at the moment. I'm not very familiar with arcade button switches, but after doing some digging around, I've seen actuation distance/high release force cited as reasons for using them over mechanical keyboard switches (consistent with the findings in this video), and things like allowing double-tapping. It might be worth discussing with a fight stick maker (Hit Box etc) - there's probably reasons they're opting for Sanwa buttons over mechanical keyboard switches since at face value it seems like they'd save a lot of money and make their controllers more durable by using mechanical keyboard switches.

[@CranesLab]

Kailh/cherry silvers are pretty close in force levels and actuation distance to sanwas. If you go optical, there are optical silvers which would be similar force levels and actuation distance. And there's the option of optical yellow which has the same actuation distance but decreases the force level. The biggest reason that controllers built like keyboards are less common is that they are much much more complicated to design. Especially opticals, those are so much more complicated to work with. Both normal mx switches and opticals require a custom pcb to mount the switches, and a very custom case to mount the switch plate and pcb to. A controller that uses arcade buttons in comparison only requires a top panel with 24mm holes cut in it, whatever case beneath the panel, and you can run common button wires to an existing pcb like a brook board. It is much easier to design a controller this way, and it is much easier to source parts this way. It ends up being much more expensive though and uses way worse switches as a result.

[@Micha-Hil]

8:05 it's like the toy spongebob head flying off

[@CranesLab]

LOL

[@javongoshay]

The force curves bro. Amazing review

[@CranesLab]

Thanks! I'd love to build a better rig for that in the future haha. Was quite the task to manually move the printer Z axis and type the result into Excel for a 1000 data points LOL.

[@David-ym2vk]

Fantastic review! Thanks a lot!

[@CranesLab]

Glad it was helpful!

[@basicswamp]

I would love to see a build guide / tutorial on your diy box, I know they exist already but I feel like you'd make a really good one. Thanks for this review 👍

[@CranesLab]

I have a DIY tutorial in the works at the moment. Hopefully will finish that within a couple of weeks! I have a few more DIY videos planned as well.

[@ramiabdalla2661]

lol i'm not even looking to buy one of these, this was just enjoyable

[@aBlackMage]

Wow, I'm a newbie to fighting games but always thought controllers like these were pretty cool. As a mechanical keyboard enthusiast, I'm in love with both of the Frame1 versions, but especially the Heavy. I might have to splurge once they're available again. (Or should I say if? There hasn't been an update in a while) Either way thanks for the super in-depth video!

[@T3RD5ify]

lmao ordered my b0xx like 3 months ago and wish i wouldve gotten frame 1 now, but it'll be here in like 2 weeks. great video

[@CranesLab]

Ay the b0xx is still pretty decent at least. Glad you liked the vid!

[@Emerald3ME]

I wish more controller reviews were this in depth.

[@EriksWorld14]

wow - excellent video.

[@NeutralOfficial]

I clicked this expecting a low effort rundown, what I got was smthn WAYYY fuckin better ur a homie dawg, good shit

[@CranesLab]

Ay thanks! Glad you liked it

[@on_certainty]

this is the greatest review of anything of all time

[@ddublu]

whoo, 1000th like. congrats. real sweet review.

[@CranesLab]

Thanks!

[@BlackCherryZyn]

Yo thanks for all this info tons of help

[@CranesLab]

No prob!

[@suntzu6122]

DUDE!! That acrylic case you made is AMAZING!!! Can you show us how you made it? DAMN that looks sexy :O

[@julesolivier2994]

insane quality video

[@williamq6435]

Baught my frame one thanks to this ; thanks my man

[@vehemore]

came here from Tai's tweet. dude, who are you? this video was so sweet, never wanted a box controller, but you're convincing a controller purist to cop a frame1 just based on construction quality. good shit crane.

[@CranesLab]

haha thanks! I make diy box controllers and circuit boards, and help other peeps to make their own. I just finished a website actually that documents the projects I've worked on if you want to read about some of the stuff I do: www.craneslab.xyz/

[@mindyobizness5326]

Dude. You’re awesome. Had to sub. I backed the Smash Stick Kickstarter a few months back and while I am excited to try it out, this review convinced me to pick up a Frame1 Light as well. Excellent review.

[@MasterE1]

Best review I have ever watched. I play smash with a nodded gc controller but I play fighting games on hitbox. Do think I could transition to a frame 1 easily?

[@CranesLab]

I think being used to a layout like the hitbox would probably help as you are already used to using all of your fingers at once.

[@ojgimpson]

Great review :))

[@lentencraft]

Great vid! Only thing i didnt like was how you made the tactile bump sound like a design flaw. A lot of people seek out tactile switches

[@CranesLab]

I really like switches with a good tactile bump. This isn't a tactile bump though, it's more of a disturbed linear switch. chart-studio.plotly.com/~haata/506 This is a force curve for a proper tactile switch. The Sanwas disturbance feels unintentional and clumsy in comparison

[@lentencraft]

@@CranesLab ah okay that makes sense. I guess now its just a great vid!

[@deadbones123]

The one thing I would like to know is how do the weights of the three compare? Wonderful video!

[@CranesLab]

Gotchu: F1 light - 2.595 lbs - 1.178 kg B0XX - 3.690 lbs - 1.674 kg F1 Heavy - 5.161 lbs - 2.341 kg And thanks!

[@BlurredWolf]

Wonderful video, the only thing that's missing now is I'd like to see a comparison of the Frame1 and a Smashbox

[@CranesLab]

The smashbox has the same buttons as the b0xx so I have the same issues there. It also has pretty cheap internal pcb/wiring. Besides that though it has really customizable software, so I reckon it's really nice for people who want to use one of these for all sorts of games. It sorta reminds me of the steam controller. Takes a lot to get the profiles setup properly, but can do things that other controllers can't.

[@BlurredWolf]

@@CranesLab Thanks for the reply! Yeah that sounds like it has its own kind of niche then. Hopefully when the F1 gets the remapping software it will be able to achieve similar utility.

[@saucemessiah9501]

Holy fuck dude best review I've seen. I've been looking to switch to an arcade button style controller because I've recently gotten carpal tunnel and still want to be able to compete. Obviously they're generally expensive and I don't want to buy a product I'm not satisfied with. After watching this I've got a much better idea of what I'm looking for, as someone who is very inexperienced with the arcade button style controllers.

[@exiathomas2114]

This is the most insane review.

[@kaeluvsfortnite]

great video!

[@SeriousYi]

great review, but 1 thing i think needed to be covered was the software differences between the 2

[@CranesLab]

I'd have liked to cover software differences, but there aren't too many and most can be found on their product pages. I wanted to keep the vid around 30 mins or less so I decided to not include that

[@itzelpretzel]

a deskthority user reviewing these controllers is what this community needs

[@coolpikachufan01]

Kickass Crane, good job! Would I be able to fit a Brook UFB in the F1? One of the appeals of doing a DIY with your boards is how easy it looks to add additional boards

[@CranesLab]

Thanks! Yep any of the normal brook boards fit in the F1. It's even easier then my boards to add haha. You just slot it into the pcb

[@coolpikachufan01]

@@CranesLab oh shit that’s awesome Doesn’t the GCCMX have a slot as well?

[@CranesLab]

@@coolpikachufan01 yep it works just like that.

[@Ali.Abdulla]

what an insane review

[@Valnoir_]

Hey amazing review was great to watch. I had one question, Do you have any opinions on the Smashbox

[@CranesLab]

Glad you enjoyed! I wrote this up in a comment a while ago, I'll copy paste it here: The Smashbox and B0XX have a lot in common, and a lot of what I said about the B0XX compared to the Frame1 applies to the Smashbox too (like the Sanwas). Because of that it makes the most sense to compare the Smashbox and B0XX side by side. The B0XX has a much thinner chassis at 1.36" vs the 2" of the Smashbox. As mentioned in the video when I compared my 2.125" DIY to my B0XX, I much prefer the thinner chassis for portability and comfort's sake. The B0XX and Smashbox both use a glossy acrylic top panel. The B0XX's acrylic has chamfered edges which make the edges a lot less sharp. I believe the Crossup has done this too, but I think the Smashbox still does not. They are both glossy which I'm not a fan of as both are very prone to fingerprints and scratches, but I find glossy white which the Smashbox uses to be less obnoxious in that regard. Both use a steel sheet metal chassis so both are quite rigid, but the B0XX chassis has the corners and edges all closed and rounded off which I think looks a bit cleaner. The B0XX really outshines Smashbox when it comes to the internals. The B0XX circuit board uses a USB-C port for both GameCube and PC, where the Smashbox uses an aviator like connector that protrudes out from the chassis quite a lot for its GameCube cable, and a separate USB-B port for connecting to PC. I'm really not a fan of how far the GameCube port sticks out and how those ports are separated. The Smashbox circuit board requires a pretty wack workaround to function on PC over USB, where the B0XX board works natively. The B0XX board has hardware which allows it to operate over GameCube connections where 5V isn't present, notably when using a Mayflash adapter without the gray USB cable plugged in, as well as on GameCube/Wiis with dead rumble lines. The Smashbox does not work without 5V meaning it will not work in those scenarios. As for the firmware, the Smashbox does have a pretty in depth customizer tool which seems pretty cool if you want to play miscellaneous games with ease. If you are familiar with programming you could reprogram a B0XX using my open source firmware to do whatever you want, but it would take more effort. In short, the B0XX hardware does what the Smashbox does but in a cleaner and better way, as well as having additional functionality and features. And as for software, the Smashbox is easier to customize, but you could reprogram a B0XX with some patience. As someone who is fine with the modes offered by the B0XX, and could reprogram it if I wanted other modes, I personally wouldn't ever have a need for the Smashbox's only benefit, the customizer. But that is on a person by person basis. As for comparing to the Frame1, it sorta just does another evolutionary step, where it does all that the B0XX does but in a cleaner and better way. And on top of that, it has far better buttons than the Sanwas used by the B0XX/Smashbox.

[@tsukimaru131]

How do you have less than 200 subs? Dude screw YT and their damn algorythm, you just earned a subscriber! Your analysis kept me hooked from beginning to end, and I've never ever used an arcade box :o

[@CranesLab]

Ay thanks! This is actually my first vid, and it sorta requires a bit of previous knowledge about Melee/controllers to understand, so I'm very surprised that this many people have seen it and have subscribed haha. I wasn't really planning to make other videos but seeing how a lot of people enjoyed this, maybe I'll review some obscure controllers and the various keyboards that I have!

[@tsukimaru131]

@@CranesLab dude you shouldn't be as surprised. The way you tackled each of the controller strenghts, areas of improvement, what was simply your preference, it was all super well made and unbiased. The part I loved was the graph in which you demonstrated how muh strenght is needed to push the button and funnily enough, it made absolute sense to me and I could imagine the feel just by your explanation alone lol keep 'em coming dude, I' lo make sure to watch them as soon as they are released 😁👌

[@CranesLab]

@@tsukimaru131 thanks so much! I'm really glad people have been enjoying it. Hopefully I'll come up with some more video ideas haha

[@tsukimaru131]

@@CranesLab here's one at the top of my mind, as a fighting stick iliterate I'd be damn curious on the process of building a fighting stick/box like the ones you showed in video :o

[@CranesLab]

@@tsukimaru131 Oh true! I'd love to make a video guide for making a DIY controller

[@TheTinyCyclist]

Amazing review and video! I was just curious, what PCB did you use when you made your Frame1 style controller? I know you said it uses mechanical switches, so I wasn't sure what PCB would do that. I am considering making something similar, but am having trouble finding the right parts. Again, amazing video and thanks for any help!

[@CranesLab]

Thanks! I use my own custom PCBs seen here: imgur.com/a/a7AVbIZ You can find more details about the logic board here: www.craneslab.xyz/projects/s And about the full controller here: www.craneslab.xyz/projects/mx These designs will be open sourced when I get the time to fully document them.

[@SCORP1ONF1RE]

I like how you brought the buttons closer together vertically. I I probably would also bring them closer together horizontally. So that I could do back-and-forth finger slide maneuvers in other games. And I think it would be more comfortable not having my fingers unnaturally spread apart

[@CranesLab]

I made one where the buttons were as close together horizontally as possible as well as vertically, and I found having them spread a bit out like this to be far more comfortable for me. It's definitely subjective though so feel free to try it out on a diy and see what you think.

[@TheNahrstedt]

Great video

[@saymehname]

I like the b0xx I think I’m going to order one.

[@corbyberry3808]

Awesome Video

[@ratava07]

goated video

[@GameConnoisseur69]

Hoping to see an update with JFA's Lunchbox when theres a full release loved this vid

[@CranesLab]

Ye I'll probably look at one of those and a couple other smaller scale rectangle producers in another video.

[@Ed_AlphA]

This is insanely good ! I've watched everything ! Is the frame 1 compatible with other games on pc like tekken or something ?

[@CranesLab]

Yep you can use any rectangle controller on PC in a mode where it acts as a keyboard, which would let you use it for other games

[@xavierracine5808]

wtf that review is insane

[@cakecakes31]

Thank you so much. I plan on buying a Heavy Frame 1 once it is available again, and now I know everything I would ever need to about my other options. Exactly what I was looking for. I see you got a silver Heavy F1, does the black one struggle with fingerprints?

[@CranesLab]

No prob! Considering the black one is anodized aluminum just like the silver one, id imagine its as good as the silver one is regarding fingerprints. The devs say they are both super fingerprint resistant as well

[@sonov6305]

Really great in-depth video - a few questions, do you have any opinions on the SmashBox by hitboxarcade? They use Sanwa too, is there a way to use their internals but wore them to the optical switches?

[@CranesLab]

The Smashbox and B0XX have a lot in common, and a lot of what I said about the B0XX compared to the Frame1 applies to the Smashbox too (like the Sanwas). Because of that it makes the most sense to compare the Smashbox and B0XX side by side. The B0XX has a much thinner chassis at 1.36" vs the 2" of the Smashbox. As mentioned in the video when I compared my 2.125" DIY to my B0XX, I much prefer the thinner chassis for portability and comfort's sake. The B0XX and Smashbox both use a glossy acrylic top panel. The B0XX's acrylic has chamfered edges which make the edges a lot less sharp. I believe the Crossup has done this too, but I think the Smashbox still does not. They are both glossy which I'm not a fan of as both are very prone to fingerprints and scratches, but I find glossy white which the Smashbox uses to be less obnoxious in that regard. Both use a steel sheet metal chassis so both are quite rigid, but the B0XX chassis has the corners and edges all closed and rounded off which I think looks a bit cleaner. The B0XX really outshines Smashbox when it comes to the internals. The B0XX circuit board uses a USB-C port for both GameCube and PC, where the Smashbox uses an aviator like connector that protrudes out from the chassis quite a lot for its GameCube cable, and a separate USB-B port for connecting to PC. I'm really not a fan of how far the GameCube port sticks out and how those ports are separated. The Smashbox circuit board requires a pretty wack workaround to function on PC over USB, where the B0XX board works natively. The B0XX board has hardware which allows it to operate over GameCube connections where 5V isn't present, notably when using a Mayflash adapter without the gray USB cable plugged in, as well as on GameCube/Wiis with dead rumble lines. The Smashbox does not work without 5V meaning it will not work in those scenarios. As for the firmware, the Smashbox does have a pretty in depth customizer tool which seems pretty cool if you want to play miscellaneous games with ease. If you are familiar with programming you could reprogram a B0XX using my open source firmware to do whatever you want, but it would take more effort. In short, the B0XX hardware does what the Smashbox does but in a cleaner and better way, as well as having additional functionality and features. And as for software, the Smashbox is easier to customize, but you could reprogram a B0XX with some patience. As someone who is fine with the modes offered by the B0XX, and could reprogram it if I wanted other modes, I personally wouldn't ever have a need for the Smashbox's only benefit, the customizer. But that is on a person by person basis. As for comparing to the Frame1, it sorta just does another evolutionary step, where it does all that the B0XX does but in a cleaner and better way. And on top of that, it has far better buttons than the Sanwas used by the B0XX/Smashbox. As for converting the Sanwas into using optical switches, no one has made a circuit board and adapter yet for this. I might in the future, but it's definitely not a high priority for me.

[@sonov6305]

@@CranesLab Thanks so much for the in depth response, extremely helpful, I think the main reason I am attracted to the Smashbox is the button layout offers more intuitive options for a wider range of games not just smash melee. Would definitely be keen for some conversion tools/tips in the future but understand that it's not a priority. A friend of mine bought a pair of Smash Box Experience kits so we are going to mess around with making some more erganomic builds that fit our needs but I will definitely keep my eyes out for a customisable frame 1 in the future, I really like the advice on the buttons and the frame 1 does look almost perfect apart from the button layout. Thanks again for the advice and feedback.

[@martyn6060]

really informative vid good shit (algorithm comment)

[@sugarbandit8755]

upside down wooper