What Is the Best MMORPG in 2024? Six Tier Lists Ranked by MMO Features

[@sv398]

One of the best attempts at listing/deciding MMO tiers. Nicely done (even if people will disagree at some points, individual tastes cannot always be accounted for). Well done!

[@danikmoroz2328]

Yeah agreed, nicely done. But imo New world pvp is the greatest pvp ever in this particular genre and, sadly, pretty much the only really strong side of the game :(

[@hypergg681]

yea i didnt like gw2 after a year and half, i realised im more of a pvp guy, sux couldve started bdo and now will..

[@fu6817]

Well i disagree so much that this video is a shitshow to me.

[@jesseemberley8750]

this may be the most comprehensive, non bias tier list i have ever seen in gaming! well done.

[@GuildJen]

I hope Guild Wars 3 will have the same combat

[@KLIVIAGW2]

I hope they will improve the way input will interact with non-client-side processes, in other words that they reduce that tiny lag you notice in competitive modes sometimes. And I like the way the new spear feels, I think this could be the direction where we are going; more combo and stance based fighting, wich is not different to the current system but a bit more dynamic. I like the idea generally to make the combat itself flexible and not the combat prep like in WoW or League Of Legends when we talk of the competitive aspects. But these are of course different approaches in these games anyway. I think the spear introduction might be a good way for Anet to test how people react to that idea and maybe really intend to move that direction. But also I think it will still take abour 6 to 8 years until we see a Gw3, maybe at that point we have different common grounds on how we steer characters in MMORPGs, maybe because of new inventions and improved technology for Device-User-Touchpoints or maybe because some great control concept of a pioneer style game pushed through. You can never know, but I still agree I love the combat system of Gw2, it is the best, I can't imagine something better in this whole gameplay landscape but I am looking forward to alternatives we haven't even seen yet :) Something important that needs to be said to your comment: As a big content creator like you are, I would be anyway careful with what you claim or not claim. You didn't claim that there will be a Guild Wars 3 soon, but people read your name, they read that you talk about a new Guild Wars and then they will not invest much more time except reading the same headlines from a shallow research that NCSoft already is responsible for: "Gw3 is in the making"! Big media catched up on this but it is an active headache for Arenanet and these rumours are influencing the performance of the live game. You must know that if you hype for a game that does not exist and Arenanet does not want to talk about officially to not dampen expecations about Gw2 expansions, you will draw away attention and make it look like Gw2 is not on the priority list of the dev studio anymore. Wich is clearly not the case. But anyone seeing this rather general video of Vallun and reading your marked comment might be influenced NOT to invest in Gw2 anymore as "there is the next game already anyaways, so I save my money for that as this will be the next live service for 10 years".

[@rafaelteles4161]

Same. A more polished and upgraded version of what we have today, without necessary reinventing the wheels

[@foshizzle563]

Not sure about tab target combat in gw3 it can be quite frustrating in pvp having to shift through tab targets and clear target to use mobility (leaping backwards because you didnt clear target is a missive cringe lol)

[@rafaelteles4161]

@@foshizzle563 the target shift in pvp kinda sucks. They can implement the combat more towards action and hitboxes to solve that and use tab target more cautiously

[@foshizzle563]

@@rafaelteles4161 Yea or some sort of smart targeting where if your facing away from your target and use a mobility targeted like skill it will move you the way your facing. Also in WvW walls have a massive hitbox and having to click your screen and you click a wall instead has killed me more often than not in panic situations, there is also alot of other examples they would need to improve if they go with the same system.

[@killerkram1337]

Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO I've ever played. I've almost played everything on this list but gw2 is the only one that hooked me. big fan of wvw chaos, open world exploration is god tier with how good the mounts are and how many secret things are hidden everywhere, and even though there is no vertical progression the hunt for legendary items give a huge sense of accomplishment afterwards as each piece of legendary gear makes you a more adaptable adventurer. the lore of the game is better than the actual story telling but the story telling isnt bad. over all i agree. s tier game. 5000 hours and still going

[@rayhoodoo847]

Agreed, except imo the story is super cringe for the most part

[@Das-jc7nt]

Gw2 has the least interactive story out of most of those mmos in this tier list

[@killerkram1337]

@Das-jc7nt to me it's no different than wow or ff14. It's basically like a TV show or long movie you watch except your character is one of the main characters.

[@sanguin3]

@@Das-jc7nt You can't expect an interactive story to the level of SWTOR in an MMO nowadays. It is costly to make one and other parts of the game (group content and open world for example) will definitely suffer because of this.

[@Das-jc7nt]

@@sanguin3 yea but that doesn’t mean they can put absolutely zero effort in it. Like I said it’s the least interactive story in any mmo rpg I have ever played. Almost every other game has a better story…

[@vbaldokaizen8748]

Monetization should have been another category.

[@tristanoce5233]

just say your poor

[@nightgod9708]

@@tristanoce5233 "your" no money for a dictionary ig

[@henrylauer5402]

@vallun One other thing to consider is accessibility. So many of us are getting older and are married, having it be available on console where you can co-habitat with your partner can be a big factor for people. I myself as a busy dad bounce around between GW2 and Albion. But with Albion one of the amazing things was that it was available on mobile. in 2021 my wife and I basically lost everything during the pandemic, My laptop for school couldn't handle a lot of games, but I put like 400 hours into Albion on my phone in my spare time.

[@digbydark9313]

I'm having a blast in Guild Wars 2 right now. I tried to get into Elder Scrolls Online but the movement and animations are so bad. It came out 2 years after Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars 2s movement animations and combat is so much better looking.

[@fu6817]

GW2 looks ok but everything else feels so old. I'm level 15 and bored to death.

[@flatearth7800]

eso has the worst combat

[@Arrow333]

I think this is a good method to rank MMORPGs even though I might not agree with every ranking. But the true benefit of this method is that for the final ranking, everyone could basically weight the different categories (or ignore those that are irrelevant for them) and get a result that matches the individual interests.

[@njorun1829]

I played WoW for a couple of years,, and I still miss parts of it. However, "my" MMO is GW2. Been playing it almost from start, with a break in the middle, and I absolutely love it. I tried FF14 for about a year as a secondary MMO, but didn't get hooked (although I like it well enough, it's just not my type of game). I started ESO and had a lot of fun. I've played and loved all the single player games so it was a very nice nostalgia trip for me. The thing that put me off was the making of an A-team and a B- team. What I mean by that is; you get infinite inventory space, but only if you subscribe. I definitely prefer the GW2 philosophy of "buy once, play forever." With that said, I would very much velcome any comments that could make me give ESO a second chance. Edit: there are definitely reasons to play GW2 raids more than once, with the main one being legendary unlocks.

[@Gardenerandy]

GW2... i know that you have to pay £ 100 pounds plus for the expansions etc but what is end game like can you be op and kill bosses and players or does everyone get op very easily and can you get powerful weapons etc thanks

[@njorun1829]

​@Gardenerandy It's very easy to get exotic items, and that's all you need to get started with end game content. It's second only to the ascended and legendary tiers (these are best in slot with added QoL on legendaries). Ascended gear is accountbound, so you can move it between any characters that can use them. You can swap stats on legendary gear when out of combat and you can also have any legendary item equipped on multiple characters at once. There's both challenging and casual end game with the hardest content being some of the strike bosses on their toughest difficulty levels.

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

As someone who played both WoW and TESO: Just treat TESO as a subscription based game like WoW, that offers a trial version for free. Not as a "free"/buy-only game, that offers more to people who pay.

[@gipsygirl943]

That was a lot of work. Well done. I enjoyed a lot. You are very good at what you do.

[@rayhoodoo847]

Generally awesome video, but I really disagree about not having vertical progression in GW2 being a downside for Dungeons. You forget that people can actually do Raids, Fractals etc for fun. Saying that GW2 loses on players who want vertical progression misses the fact that it gains players who play it exactly because there is no vertical progression.

[@danikmoroz2328]

IMO this is one of the most valuable parts of gw2!

[@Okada一IZŌ]

true

[@damiankirkwood7924]

Community should have been a category

[@Vallun]

maybe there will be an expansion o7

[@Ellimist000]

one dead mmo that had great action based combat was WildStar. First MMO before GW2 that I played melee because it was so fun

[@apotheosis00]

I got to play it the month before it died as an Esper, but tried melee and felt it was a blast also. Really hope we get decent private servers at some point.

[@Das-jc7nt]

@@Ellimist000 they stole virtuoso from wild Star. Truly wild Star was ahead of its time and I miss it dearly

[@herbaceousboredom9584]

I used to camp a lot on LotRO and SWTOR and came late to GW2. Loved SWTOR for the character stories, (eventual) separation of planetary arc from local level grinding for player convenience, and meaningful character expertise / in-game choices. Loved LotRO for the environment and the lore, the epic story was quite engaging from time to time but the open world quests were very generic, and when flower-picking became a hardcore part of 'gameplay' I turned off. Love GW2 for the combat, ad hoc group events and (something you didn't touch on) player conveniences (wide-ranging), achievements / cosmetics / currencies / upper tiers of items etc are all account-wide, the environment is generally very well done, but the story can be hit-and-miss... The two things that hit me the most when returning (more rarely now) to LotRO or SWTOR are sloooooow combat and lack of player conveniences. Also in the case of LotRO, trivialised legendary items: I know they changed it but I look at GW2's and think on what could have been / should be...

[@rayhoodoo847]

Yeah when this guy gave LOTRO combat a B-tier rating, I got caught off guard

[@_dancinggrass]

I recently started playing BDO and they actually have nice story. I think most don't care about the story because it's more bite-sized and usually region specific, unlike most other MMOs where there's a grand story arc that spans multiple expansions.

[@triple1]

The dialogs look like they are AI generated, and forgettable at best. :) And it doesn't get better with the dlc's either, sadly. I honestly tried reading all the quest text, but they made it really difficult for the player. But I guess it's okay since it's not a story focused game.

[@honnorgaurd]

Honestly id say you chose wisely. As someone who has played all of the top 4-5 you mentioned, this is overall pretty accurate.

[@nikhosinthemachine]

Great comparison. You mentioned community but didn't rank it. I think that's a really important part of the MMO experience. Something to add to a future version/update of this vid, perhaps? But all in all, very useful and informative.

[@gewreid5946]

I'm kinda surprised there was no "build diversity and balance" section or thoughts on that in the combat section. For me that is a HUGE part of the combat system (and PvP) and a big factor in determining wether I enjoy it or not. And sure, the specific state of balance changes all the time but historical build diversity, balance philosophy, track record and intrinsic parts of the combat system that make balance easier or harder are definitely worth talking about. As for the video itself, it's some pretty great work and a very good way to compare different games that tells you a lot more than just an abstract ranking. It reminded me why I picked up ESO at some point and enjoyed it a lot (as well as what peaked my interest about Lost Ark and BDO and why i dropped them quite quickly again). Once i'm done with Janthir, i should get into it again, it's been ages. Kinda feels like my perfect game was split between ESO and GW2, they both have some stuff i really like but aren't perfect. If only GW2 had better story and an open world experience that made more full use of the combat system.

[@DiseñoCorporativoIntegral]

yeah, i hate FF14 classes because the developers are just saying... hey!, look at this amazing class i created, i hope you have fun with it. In games like GW2, the developer is giving you a set of legos and you can create wherever you want.

[@rayhoodoo847]

I love GW2, but the story is borderline unbearably cringe to me

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

As someone who played almost all Elder Scrolls related things ESO will for me remain one of the best MMOs out there. To me combat could use just a liiiiittle more action and it would be perfect.

[@DoamBot]

Some games opt for multiple classes instead like FF14 they have a ton. Some games opt for specializations that branch for diversity like WoW. While Some games have a false build diversity in which many builds are just useless like Gw2. Gw2 has a bunch of traits and skills but not all those traits are skills can keep up or are useful. Which worked for gw1 since enemies and players share a skill pool.

[@Das-jc7nt]

@@DiseñoCorporativoIntegral respectfully you couldn’t be more wrong. And I’m a gw2 player

[@onlyalexso]

Finally, an honest and well-detailed MMO Tier explanation! Excited & Excellent!

[@Ragestatus]

I would agree with this! WoW, GW2, and ESO are my personal top 3 MMOs. I also really enjoyed Albion Online for a month, then I started getting dumpstered in red/black zones and got tired of the rogue-like aspect; still very fun combat/armor system and personal farm. SWTOR also awesome stories, but sometimes combat feels clunky.

[@ChimpOnComputer]

GW2 is absolutely amazing man Love it so much

[@loudy]

I played a shit ton of PvP in BDO but i gotta disagree on the S tier for multiple reasons: - Having to go potato graphics mode when doing large scale pvp because poor optimization (unless you have NASA computers) - DPS is dependant on FPS, with many classes you will do less damage if you are not around 100-140fps, so you will need to go potato graphics mode in order to deal more damage in 1v1/3v3/open world - Desync, i really enjoy action combat from BDO but netcode is trash, getting grabbed from 30 miles away is normal and sometimes you will get hard CC'd even if you are moving protected all the time - Node War micromanagement, even now that we have T1 T2 T3 T4 node wars, is not that you will jump straight to action, you need to change your jewelery set and get church buffs/elixirs just to not get destroyed. And you WILL get destroyed if you play against someone that can afford to do huge elixir rotations - Too many unnecesary items/mechanics affecting pvp, crystals, foods, elixirs, buffs, artifacts, accuracy, evasion, etc, gearing up is not armor/weapon/runes-crystals only This are my reasons anyway and i know some people will disagree, im ok with that, BDO is my favorite MMO besides Lineage 2 and Guild Wars 2, but i always get discouraged by the same stuff.

[@PanjolArt]

so the problem is everything but the combat? if you remove all of your problem with the game the combat itself is S tier.

[@loudy]

@@PanjolArt I'm disagreeing on it being S tier on the PvP list, not in the combat list

[@tristanoce5233]

nit picking is cringe, you can do that with every game, theres a reason why mmos are dying. none of them are perfect but bdo compared to everything else is still the best regardless of what you said.

[@KOTANIMEUWU]

@@tristanoce5233 no

[@tristanoce5233]

@ anime profile picture detected opinion rejected

[@Ellimist000]

The problem with Swotor is that I disliked the relatively boring game play past the firsts quests so much but I liked the high quality story that I just watched all the different stories on youtube while doing chores 🤣

[@jorgepedromachado194]

THats the video that i was looking for, thank you man

[@Vallun]

Glad it was helpful! Let me know if you have any questions.

[@crunkledore]

As an MMO veteran (most hours sunk into wow/gw2/bdo), this is the most accurate tier listings I’ve ever seen Legit skipped to the combat and pvp bit to see where BDO was ranked bc so few people understand its combat is leagues above the rest (community and endgame are awful though)

[@necropola]

I wonder where you would place WildStar (especially combat), if it would still exist.

[@jelly8621]

just started playing gw2 1 week ago it was so fun to play (coming from bdo)

[@MrFox-xr9cc]

For Story and Exploration, as well as the "old fashioned" high fantasy feeling i just love TESO. It feels like there is a little story around every corner and the gameplay is also a lot of fun. Then for general game design and Combat i absolutely adore GW2. Barely had so much fun in any other MMO solely for how the class and weapon combos feel like. For a mix of these two I actually liked FF14 a lot. While rather normal for the FF-Universe, it has a lot of classes unheard of in pretty much any other game. (I love playing support characters and despite not believing in it have a thing for the aesthetic of astrology, so instantly fell in love with the astrology class) But, sadly, I can't convince ANY of my friends to at least semi-longterm play any of those games with me. The most i got was a huge Elderscrolls loving friend spending a month with me in TESO. So I always end up playing WoW, which isn't bad by any means, but the more you get into the Endgame, the more of the RPG feeling vanishes. It eventually evolves into perfecting your rotation in sync with a group to beat the highest tiers of mythic+ dungeon runs and mythic raids, while doing some dailies here and there. In other games I at least feel like trying out new things, or rerolling stuff, but even with their again rather abundant skill trees, there are only so many real Choices you have to make...

[@MrDraehl]

Albion Online has sooo much going for it but the p2w elements and large supply of 10v1 gank groups drag it down significantly IMO. Art style, combat responsiveness, build variety, crafting/gathering, small scale and zerg PvP? All great! I love the sense of danger and resource scarcity that full loot PvP creates (keeps the economy meaningful and exciting) but it also brings out the exploitative elements of human nature.

[@cgra-ow7ol]

The best Tier construction i have ever seen on popular MMOs. Fantastic. Please do another list! Do underrated MMOs like AQ3D, DDO, Neverwinter, EQ2 ect.

[@maury-mo3te]

The thing i always look for in a mmo game is combat. That is the main aspect that draws me into any mmo. I have pretty much tried every mmo listed, but so far, the ones that hooked me have been Eso, bdo and maybe a bit of new world. I tried to get into Guild Wars 2 because of my friends, but i could never get hooked.

[@Exirock]

Has someone that playing avrg 1k hours each, my tier base on those mentioned would be like S- Gw2, Wow, FFXIV (reasone they are very balanced games in question of content, story, gameplay (pve/pvp). A-ESO (ESO could be a S tier if the had invested well on the game, the game could even go lower rating due to excessive payed content) B-BDO, LOTRO, Maplestory ( BDO could improve alot but company dont care, LOTRO could use some graphic update and needed a more easier journey for new players, maplestory has improve alot that made the players not depend on NX to progress) C- Runescape, New World, Lost ark ,Albion online (Runescape is an OG but lets be honest it could hve much more to show for, Lost ark graphics and combat are very good but its paywalled and full of bots, Albion you can easily reach endgame in a few hours and by end of a week you already asking yourself what to do) D - Star wars (This game is more of a single player with online access i wouldnt even call it an mmorpg, only story it the pro of it) N- I wont say anything about Throne of liberty has i never played it and never research it to have a better engage when it releases. There is alot of old mmorpgs around some with good playerbase but since there is no marketing and visibility they are forgotten sadly.

[@runarsterdahl4592]

I have played exactly 1 MMO (The Secret World 1.0) and 1 action RPG (Elden Ring). Would love to find an MMO as close to these games, as I loved them both

[@Vallun]

that sounds kind of like new world

[@Flosstradamuss]

Probably the best mmo tier list yet. Bravo

[@K-Von]

Good job on the tier list Vallun! I have played half or a bit more of this list and overall I agree with your points. It's really a summerised ranking. It would have been cool if it included aspects such community, build diversity, technical support and development, etc. as some people already mentioned them. For instance: - ESO and GW2 communities are great. - I remember back when I played BDO people wouldn't stop harrising players for trying to roleplay. - Although meta governs life in MMORPGs ESO and GW2 build diversity is really great. - ESO's engine has received a lot of optimisations and runs crazy fast even during festivals, GW2 got DirectX 11 support and devs said they're committing hard to keep upgrading the game, WOW runs like a Ferrari, I suppose SWTOR's engine receives the bare minimum so it doesn't implode, etc, etc. And that's from my point of view. Thanks for reading. Edit. Also another cool aspect to evaluate would be the monetisation.

[@embreis2257]

thank you, Vallun, for this helpful assessment from an expert player about the most popular MMOs and breaking it down into different categories. also for sticking your neck out by not giving top points to the game your viewers favour the most - whatever it may be. please keep up the good work. 🤟

[@danielfix2848]

This may be an unpopular opinion but I wish more people would include FFXI in their lists. It is an amazing game with a ton of content, and basically financed the development of FFXIV. It's one of the longest running MMOs as well.

[@jumpino3580]

The first thing I do in a new MMO: explore the map and see the combat, I can tell you didn't play lot of black desert since you favorize Guild Wars and that's fine, I can't argue with your favorite game. But take note that in Black Desert: you have a massive map with a big desert where you need certain items in order to not die, you have a massive sea to explore with Irelands and monsters in the sea that you can kill, you have guild Wars on the sea which are amazing, the combat in Black desert is also the best, full action mmo, you can miss or you can hit your targets, the fact that almost every class has an awakening ability, you got more skills to use, the combos are not that difficult and if you have problem with it, you can always play with a joystick perhaps. And of course the graphics in Black Desert are absolutely amazing! The only thing I wish there was in Black Desert is the ability to fly :(

[@jumpino3580]

Oh and you forgot to mention the crafting system in these games, in Black desert is very complex but easy to understand: you can craft, cook, enhance and all kind of stuff with a cool animation while doin it.

[@Vallun]

i did play the desert map in BDO, it was a nice change of pace to make the world feel dangerous, and yes crafting is relevant to some but I myself dont consider it that important or care too much about it so I don't think i can judge it myself

[@Chocobooo92]

Guild wars 2 is the only game which respect your time. Example, you dont need looking for NPC with quest, you automaticly can do it by just doing random stuff on the area quest (killing mobs, harvesting, milking a cows XD). And when your progress bar is full, the reward from quest just pop up on your screen - so fast and simple. If you interested in story THEN you can speak direcly with NPC. You have a choice! Moreover, horizontal progress of endgame is the best solution for average playes who want enjoy full content with minimum time investment. BTW. GW2 has the best cosmetics system. You have so much freedom. You will never stuck with strong but ugly armor/weapon like in other games. And mounts! Exploration is so pleasant.

[@apfigueiredo79]

Yes! I totally agree. Another reason to say that they respect your time is that the gear you grinded 8 years ago is still useful today. I have never seen ANY other MMO that comes close to that. I used to play TERA and everything I grinded was outdated in 6 months, to the point that my 'legendary' gear was worse than the gear they gave for free to new players. And the gear score locked you out of content... I know you can't do the high tier fractals without agony resistance, but other than that, you can do pretty everything in gw2 with exotic gear. If TERA system was applied to gw2, you would be locked out of raids, squads and fractal t2 after one year without playing even if you had full legendary gear. Shameful

[@jadedsoldier3561]

I will say overall the tierlist is very good, however my only changes personally would be in terms of PvP overall systems and content, Is ESO over New World and New Word over Throne and Liberty. Throne lacks PvP content that isn't Zergfests or timegated. New World having an opt in world PvP is nice, outpost rush is a it lacking. ESO has arena's, Cyrodiil open world Sieges that are non-stop with siege units, and Imperial City for smaller scale. Thats just my opinion. Great tierlist, great video!

[@404-Err0r]

Holy!!! this is so accurate... people always complain about how bad WOW is, but the truth is that this is still the top MMOrpg i've ever played, and i have played many... this ranking is 100% true to the bones for me, well done!

[@RenninganEA]

The only 2 things i wold change: Story in WoW is convoluted but imo still woth a "A". And PvP Guild Wars 2 shouldnt get a lower tier cause theres less ppl on it, still a amazing one, totally worth a "A" tier as well. For the rest i agree with everything

[@madmagus7693]

Thanks for a reasonable tier list. I found it very useful. I've heard good thing about FF14, but I normally don't invest my time into following a game's story with fervor. I don't know if it's worth my time to play (read) a game for months before it becomes immersive and fun from a perspective other than story. Thanks again for your effort on this video. It was quite insightful.

[@Pobody]

Thanks for the interesting video! I wondered what you think about buildcrafting in all these games, particularly from a PvP context? I'm only very familiar with GW2, where I love all the different options we have available to choose from (profession, weapons, utility skills, traitlines, traits within each traitline, amulet, relic, runes, sigils....), which allows players to express their creativity. Do you think any other games come close to or surpass buildcrafting in GW2?

[@Vallun]

lost ark and ESO had the best build diversity, although lost ark's pvp isnt good so maybe ignore that

[@anannoyedpanda]

Honestly quality video. I'll always enjoy eso as the horizontal progression of choice. Pvp i actually enjoy even if it isnt perfect, but it also has instanced pve that is done both in dungeons and raids. Gw2 would be my choice if the dungeon/raid scene was relevant. Open world is great in both games. I played wow for 4 years until the war within expansion, but getting ready for marriage and eventually a family means i cant always keep up with the gear treadmill. Its nice to have an mmo that my spouse and i can enjoy casually and still be relatively successful at.

[@sanguin3]

The newest expansion will introduce a brand new Raid wing with 3 difficulties (normal, CM, LCM) and a similar Convergence with 2 difficulties in the later updates. Hopefully they will do well enough so more will be introduced in the future.

[@Akeche]

32:45 This confuses me. The story for LoTRO blows ESO out of the water and deserves a solid spot in S tier, and I think above FFXIV. Mostly it sounded like you knew what you were talking about throughout the video, but this made me think that maybe you hadn't actually experienced all the games in the list after all. Your point makes little sense, of course you aren't going to walk up to Frodo Baggins and give him a bitch-slap so you can take the ring off to Mordor yourself. But the journey the player takes on is just as if not more epic than the Fellowship.

[@petsfamily8278]

PVP on osrs just another level. Its fun, rewarding and holy f**k at the same times.

[@koolaidremixed2]

Gw2 by far the best mmo. Love WoW too tho more for pve than gw2

[@wadeleonhart]

A great video overall. I hard agree on BDO having S tier combat and FF14 having epic story and raids. Those facets keep me returning to both games.

[@webbygaming1583]

Great idea for a Tier List and video, well done! While I disagree with the placement of some games on some list, and that is to be expected because tier lists are heavily subjective, I will say I am pleased with the majority of the final list. I have said it for a few years now, Guild Wars 2 is the best MMO available today and is quite likely the overall best MMO ever made.

[@DiehardToaster]

I think another good category would be like skilling. So far New World has taken my heart I want to see it do so good even though it looks like it will be going downhill from here. OSRS has also had a place in my heart I just can’t bring myself to put minimum 700 hours in to get to a point where I can start doing the bossing and raids

[@Krausen2]

Only thing missing in this tierlist was gathering/crafting/economy TAB, besides that one, pretty solid list.

[@vidya2144]

Great video vallun Sucks knowing gw2 could be even better! But as it stands.. it's stuck in a weird limbo with many of its features.. But that said, yes, the jack-of-all-trades-ness, along with its top tier combat of gw2 always makes me return and main the game.

[@ichaobug]

what's your opinion on Ashes of Creation Vallun?IS it combat good ?Will u play AOC if it comes out?

[@Vallun]

sure, i'll hook up a pc in the retirement home

[@Whats_Up_Dot]

there's plenty of reasons to do raids and strikes! it's one of the easiest ways to get ascended armor, and there are a number of achievements required for getting legendary gear. ultimately I think it's fine in the tier list where it's at, altho A tier wouldn't be out of place

[@henrylauer5402]

Such an amazing video. With how amazing the combat in guild wars 2 ks. It truly deserves more attention to pvp

[@ihategoogle475]

In-game economy section? Being able to trade in a player driven economy is my favorite part of MMOs. Some games do this a lot better than others, which is why OSRS has always been my favorite MMO. Eve does this better than most too. A crap economy is also my biggest complaint about ESO and Lost Ark, I lose all motivation to play them because of this one factor alone.

[@gth4028]

39:30 what game is this?

[@SteinarHagalsson]

The biggest Problem for me is, that there is no middleage MMO for player who don’t have the time to play 30 Hours a week to be competetive, regarding the gear. Elder Scrolls is the closest

[@hyperb0ria]

bro this is the tierlist i agree with everything

[@itzbreath6087]

Hell yea some love for new world! It definitely has its ups and downs but the unique territory wars is so fun.

[@york9489]

I started to play GW2 since 2013 and still playing it everyday now. Such a great game

[@Trompok13]

requiem desiderium mortis - everyone should give this a try if they are sick of the mmos we got now.

[@rheo591]

GW2 respects your time and money. It’s also a game you can take a hiatus from and come back with your gear still relevant.

[@razial5745]

I just bought all expansions for Guild Wars 2. Im just starting to play it for the first time.

[@zumasa9991]

this is probably the best tier list I've seen. Final Fantasy is definitely above BDO. GW2 is so well balanced but I agree most people won't like that.

[@shachi142]

and i think ff14 is the only game that you cannot get stronger with cash shop items meaning its all up to player skills and effort

[@mr.q337]

All GW2 cash shop items are cosmetic.

[@judgedrago1143]

If you think you can get stronger in the cash shop in GW2 you're mental

[@shachi142]

@@judgedrago1143 idk about gw2 never played that before but if it is the same as ff14 then it is a good game

[@13_faces]

Osrs

[@fullmetalathlete]

Not gonna lie, kinda surprised at your pvp rankings... wouldn't have guessed you'd have BDO, NW, and WoW above GW2, simply because of the combat itself...but if anything it's just made me want to try out BDO even more...

[@Vallun]

the PvP is my favorite thing in gw2 as it fleshes out the combat, but the content itself just isnt there unfortunately

[@YouTubeChillZone]

Wait for the sale on steam, I bought it for 5eur and was disappointed with BDO Game has nothing to offer except for fun combat and I am in MMO for whole package and unfortunately BDO does not have it

[@fullmetalathlete]

@@KZbinChillZone I mean I'm a solo player so I really like good combat and grinding...I don't care about end game pve or instanced content, I especially don't care about story...I just want to be able to play as a solo player and not be reliant on groups or other players for me to achieve things in game...even in GW2 which is supposed to be the "casual players MMO" most legendary gear requires you to sit through hours of boring story, participate in wvw, instanced content, be dependent on other players to complete open world meta events, or deal with the super low player population in the pvp scene...like maybe I should stick to single player games but I want single player functionality in a shared multiplayer world...I hate being beholden to other players for me to complete tasks in a game.

[@YouTubeChillZone]

@fullmetalathlete It is very possible that BDO will be a perfect choice for you. I'm completely the opposite, I like instance content and interaction with other people, sometimes also pvp

[@embreis2257]

@@Vallun true. however, the audience need to keep in mind your verdict reflects an very exalted view on PvP systems (particular with regard to GW2) as you are probably within the few, the very few people who tried all those MMOs and actually know what they are talking about.

[@xSavedSoulx]

Black Desert do not deserve to be ranked that high

[@done112_]

One of the best mmorpg tier list vid. So I put it into S tier

[@jaymichaelmichaels]

Unfortuantely i've come to the same conclusion. GW2 is the "best" all around mmorpg right now. I'm actually shocked and wish it was more "heavy" on PvP..but it is what it is. If I had no life and just wanted to crack out, id probably go back to BDO, join a guild, and do the politics...but now in life, GW2 it is. Good video.

[@PanjolArt]

my biggest problem with ESO combat is the animation, i'm fine with all of the animation canceling, but the animation itself is so stiff and janky. i hate looking at it.

[@JReyesTbn46]

Combat feels okay until you look at your character. I felt like I was controlling a whacky wavy inflatable arm-flailing tube man.

[@manigold7311]

I agree with this list, Final Fantasy could be higher if its quest system wasn't as boring as Lost Ark and its PVP was left aside. Runescape could be higher if its combat was more interactive and less AFK. Star Wars was made by Bioware, that says it all. I would only lower Black Desert to a B.

[@millionaiyer]

the only reason he put gw2 pvp and end game content lower because it's not very incentivized that much! else it would be much higher i feel especially pvp! Also pvp is fun in general you don't need incentive to kill people xD

[@Relhio]

Nice list, and although I agree with most of it, I find it odd even though you pvp so much in GW2 you still rank BDO so high even though 99% of that game's combat revolves around dodging for half an hour to find an opening to get a cc in to secure a kill in one combo. Not to mention it's a nightmare to learn the obnoxious amounts of individual abilities and pattern usage knowing which have s, which provide grab immunity and all of that for every Awakening or Succession topped with ludicrous gear discrepancy. If I misunderstood the list and it's regarding activities and incentives, then sure. Also, LA had some of the better pvp out there and it's not even close to NW with the staggers when there's three types of staggers you have to consider.

[@Јале]

BDO has fell off hard pvpwise ever since devs made open world changes which cater more towards casual players and by doing so, they mostly eliminated the possibility of an organic way of making conflicts on grind spots/world bosses etc. But the last nail in the coffin was the Node Wars change where they dumbed it down so much and eliminated all the strategy and politics behind it…drama free, sterile wars… Most of the EU/NA pvp guilds/alliances disbanded cause of these changes…rip guerilla warfare on world bosses, rip defending your homies from rival guilds on grind spots, rip the juicy guild drama and montages…truly was the best gaming experience ever for me. 😭

[@Gesauriel]

If ESO has B-tier combat and pvp, I can't imagine how terrible the c- and d-tier games are. Cuz ESO in pvp/combat suck so much.

[@yuhn5941]

its a overall tier list at the end, doesnt mean ESO has better pvp/combat than NW, Albion ff14, etc, just means that overall ( for him ) its better than the ones below lol

[@Gesauriel]

​@@yuhn5941 thank you, captain obvious. U save my day!

[@isthiscry]

really not that bad, well definitely compared to the ones he ranked below it. final fantasy global cooldown really is trash, maple story is 2D, and he put lord of the rings online on this list, which is definitely trash

[@Amel-vp9he]

Great summary! I constantly switch between GW2 and WoW. I like GW2 more since combat,open world exploration and pvp is more fun than it is in WoW for me. There are 2 things holding me back from investing more time into GW2 and dropping other MMOs alltogether: 1. Big updates like new fractals,raids,strike missions,elite specs or PvP modes are not frequent enough. 2. Population is low compared to WoW which makes finding like minded people for group content more challenging to find. I dont see much guild recruitments I hope someone corrects me but there just doesnt seem to be an influx of new players.

[@Vallun]

It's mostly because theres no incentive to do challenging group content. Besides fractals which give good gold, raids only provide very niche skins that may not even look good. Why waste time with frustrating pugs or getting better when you can just farm open world, relax, and get gold to buy your skins. Hardcore raiders do exist, but they have static groups that they log on once a week to do and then log off

[@Amel-vp9he]

@@Vallun Yeah I see a lot of people describing GW2 as a vacation game that they come back to to relax and chill. Which is nice to do but doesnt satisfy me in the long run. Overcoming challenging content feels rewarding to me

[@YouTubeChillZone]

Your two points are the reason why GW 2 will never be top 1 MMO It's a shame because the game had potential in 2012, but the lack of ambition of the devs completely confirmed the public opinion that it's a game for noobs with no content A false concept, but this has been the stigma for the last 12 years and no PR will change that💀

[@KuroSy]

in gw2 the hardcore groups/communities are just hidden into discord servers. You can find plenty of people and form/join a static of hardcore-minded players pretty easily. Lately arenanet introduced legendary challenge modes which are still an experiment but seem a well received one. Still, it's going to be a few encounters per year (maybe just 1 good one) and i see how this is not enough for some people. I wish they could pack more content for pvp and endgame pve more regularly

[@gewreid5946]

@@KZbinChillZone I don't think every game HAS to try and be the top1 MMO/WoWkiller, there's definitely benefit to offering something different and carving out your own niche in the market.

[@davilg007]

You severely underrated OSRS, but I liked the structure of this tier list overall, I like how you scored everything. Now for OSRS, the combat is not immersive, but it CAN get pretty complex in the mid-late game, while also having the option to do some chill combat. This is something unique to OSRS that other games lack. Another plus of OSRS combat is how vastly different each content FEELS to do. The mechanics of each boss make it so killing it takes way different approaches, so you might spend 10 hours farming a boss, get tired of it, and go do another boss for 10 more hours and it feels fresh. Also since you didn't have a GAMEPLAY score category, this really nerfs OSRS, since while on other mmos, combat is basically 90% of the gameplay, in OSRS it's more like 50%, and the questing, skilling and minigames would easily take first spot among other MMOs. PVP wise, this is where the combat is taken to the max, with the skill ceiling being as high as GW2's. Swapping gear, swapping prayer, managing your health/prayer points, casting spells... It gets super hard to do all these things, and the better player will win most of his fights. There's a lot of RNG which is why I wouldn't rank it super high, but black desert has just as much RNG due to the CC resistance mechanic. But what makes runescape PVP rank higher imo, is how it actually has gameplay mechanics and implications. The wilderness is a super neat concept and PKers play a vital role. The dynamic between players in the wilderness makes the content there exhilerating: doing PVE in there and being always on the lookout for other players, and having to survive and escape PKers, is pretty fun. Risk/reward tuned up to the max. Black desert has flashy pvp but it's super RNG based, and pointless. I'd bring it down a tier, and I'd move OSRS to bottom of A tier. Story wise, the writing on the story is decent, but how the story is presented is what sets it apart from other MMOs. Quests in OSRS are super unique, and feel like a whole adventure. I think OSRS deseves to have its combat raised at least one tier due to the reasons I mentioned. And story also deserves to go one tier higher.

[@mooseaf3515]

😂

[@Vallun]

I did consider most of what you mentioned already, but the core gameplay is just a bit too dated even if it is solid and stood the test of time. If there were a community or "non pvp/pve" things to do tier list then ofc it would rank higher.

[@CrystronHalq]

​​@@VallunEvery mmorpg besides osrs has literally done the exact similar core gameplay youre talking about For more than 2 decades. Youre underestimating osrs by quite a bit.

[@entropicdoom8018]

Dark Age of Camelot revolutionized PvP/WvW, I am surprised it is not here given that you have old school games

[@Oatmeal-Savage]

Is it still a thing, though? I mean, I'm sure it's still hobbling around on a server somewhere.. and I played it for 5 years in 2000. Its RvR concept is what most later MMOs got their world vs world setup from. I remember stealthing, and climbing up the wall of an enemy keep to sneak inside.. was hella fun!

[@Vallun]

never played DAOC, and I'm not sure if it's still live servers either. Rather than glorifying MMOs that I enjoyed in the past, I tried to direct players to games that they can play right now

[@entropicdoom8018]

@Vallun there is a live server, but most play EDEN DAOC in order to not pay a subscription. Like you said in the video, you had to narrow your focus. But if you ever get the chance to play it, give it a try.

[@balintmolnar5153]

Thank you for the work!

[@leon3295]

BDO is great. Those saying it's P2W doesn't play the game. Hope it just improves on team content or a greater purpose why you're progressing gears instead of just grinding harder mobs.

[@BattousaiHBr]

the combat tier list was completely cooked but overall a good video.

[@nectros7157]

Like your breakdown of rankings. Great content. I've played a lot of these think we agree on some and some we don't. I thank you for starting off the video with the disclaimer that this is a subjective list of your opinion. Currently I've been playing FF14 and I just reached 50. I started as a free trial player, and soloed everything, but I wanted that "guild " feel that I like with MMOs so I purchased the full game and started a 6 month sub. Everything I read has informed me that the first 50-60 levels are the worst part of the game and I have to say that I agree. I'm not an animal or JRPG fan-boy so it is really hard for me to not skip through the TONS of reading and cutscenes. I will keep slogging through it. The whole "one character can do everything" is still foreign to me that will take some getting used too.

[@goldenboy4034]

Very helpful video. Helped me a lot to decide not to play anything at all since it would be waste of time. But now if ESO had a PVP/combat of Black Desert that would be my S+ tire MMO for me

[@pryme_god1428]

Good video, helped me very much to choose the game I want to play, but. Bbbbut, it's only my problem that I'm a fun of crafting, I love gathering, I love progression in professions and other non combat stuff. It would be nice to see a tier list of best mmo for players like me, who don't actually want to be fighter but rather be a blacksmith. (I'd kill to have a game where you can create everything the game can offer and even more, like things that can only be crafted by a skilled non fighter character)

[@Vallun]

I wouldn't make a video on that because its quite niche, but I believe the mmos with the best skilling and crafting are: OSRS and BDO, but id probably give it to OSRS as the best

[@arristo4860]

More detailed Video I have seen in years with a nice final resume , but you missed to tell ppl about the GOD TIER hammer guardian at gw2 definitely must live experience.

[@joewebber9813]

Thank you for this video. I was hoping that Everquest 2 would be added but I guess not too many play the game now days. I have played GW2, take a break, and back again. Thank you Steam for keeping me updated. LOL

[@beanbandido]

guild wars 2 combat above lost ark is absolutely wild and i dont even play mmos really

[@G-Pabbu]

wht abt neverwinter in combat ?

[@Ambroid.mp4]

I think a good pvp game needs 3 factions. Not 2 like WoW for example. 3 makes no dominant side where everybody goes in horde or alliance (for example) because it’s perma wining.

[@nectros7157]

Also, I'm not a hardcore player anymore and would love to see New World do better.

[@RosaKaraline]

I really wish that eso had better combat as I loved the open world. Probably would've stuck with it if it'd been similar to gw2, BDO or TERA. But my god it just felt so boring to play for me. Not the worst but compared to what I was used to it was lackluster. Nice list overall Vallun. I haven't played quite a few of these so it was interesting to see your take. Of the games I've played (that are still around) GW2 is always one of those games I come back to.

[@xelseartheonlyone1267]

I miss Tera... Yeah the story was awful but everything else was between S and A. Still don't understand why they had to shut it down on the PC...

[@benas8989]

Agree, it was diferent feeling game on pvp and combat aspects

[@aeroblizz1987]

Just wished you split up wow retail and classic as seperates, its so different

[@suchthaufen888]

very good tierlist!

[@sw0495]

Im only interested in "Structured PvP" as spvp in gw2, Battlegrounds in WoW and I think they are also called Battlegrounds in Swtor. Does "Black Desert Online" have that sort of PvP? Or is it just "open world" pvp like on a PvP Server in WoW or WvW in GW2? with the occasional "deathmatch Arena" season in between?!

[@Vallun]

you'll need to do a bunch of grinding in PvE, but yes you can do all that in BDO eventually

[@Јале]

You have tier one node wars which are gear capped (you can get to that cap real fast) and its happening every day except saturday from 8pm til 9pm CET. You need a guild tho and its 30 man content against other guilds. Plus now its the most popular tier since they dumbed down node wars to the point that most of the og guilds/alliances disbanded or moved to those lower tier. U have red battlefield, basically a 20 min content repeating as long as there are players queuing, but its uncapped gearwise so…yeah Theres arena of solare, also gear capped 3v3 arena with both ranked and practice matches, although ranked comes in seasons, keep that in mind You have capped and uncapped sieges as well as node wars with 100 limit number per alliance, happening every saturday starting 8pm CET and can last 4 hours. And you got trial characters with set gear with which u can just go to battle arena and practice your combos and class and learning other classes (u can see their protection symbols in BA) in order to get yourself more comfortable dabbling into modes above (u can either go with guildies or just find random ppl and ask them to fight with trial gear) Everything being said, bdo is bleeding pvpers like never before because of absurd changes catering to more casual players so open world pvp is almost dead and changes to node wars were last nail in the coffin which removes all the strategy, fort building and politics etc, but it still can be fun for new players i guess…

[@DecoratedInRain]

38:41 With this input about FF13 I wish I could see that in games I play on this list. Easily, GW2, ESO, Maplestory, and Black Desert all (from my experience) hate their own game, sometimes says its like the best garbage and are always looking for MMO but always coming back. FF 13 grats to you

[@wezzco_br8169]

Very cool video!

[@MrDeafness]

First of all, i want to thank Vallun for all those ever inspiring builds (gw2). Renewing my interest in the game quite oftenly, many thanks for that. I put a lot of time and efforts in some of those games. Notably GW2, which was my "last" MMO. I finaly droped it because of the nefarious Woke culture which was splattered everywhere in the 3rd expansion. It was already here before, but i kept telling me : the game is good, i like the gameplay, the pvp, some of the fractales, let's just get one last legendary piece of gear, etc.. I really had fun, and was always hoping for a real upgrade of the WvW (which has never come during my time). In the end, the 3rd expansion was the last straw. As a player, a paying player (so : a customer), i asked myself : Should i really pay for a service that keeps spiting in my face ? You can guess what my answer was. I don't want to passively endorse those things anymore by financing them. Good luck to you all, Peace.