B36TC 236BC and PC-12 56KJ Accident Review Final Report Update

[@fo727]

I’m a 787 pilot for United airlines. I have over 25 thousand hours of flight time. I’m a CFI-AI, AND my 25 year old son has started flight training. I say this not to brag, but rather to help people, pilots and passengers realize that these truths Scott (Fly Wire) Juan (Blancolirio), and Dan (Probable Cause) talk about are priceless opportunities for staying alive! These three KZbin channels are extremely valuable and should be on every pilot’s (and their families) lineup. So thankful for these 3 aviators!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Mike!

[@samrapheal1828]

@Mike's Videos - Exactamondo ✔️

[@azcharlie2009]

I completely agree. Those three youtube channels should be required watching for all pilots. We need to be constantly reminded that we are not invincible and to always error on the side of caution. We may not get a second chance.

[@RealWoutLies]

Ha, soloed student here. These 3 guys are my safety gurus. And I hope to go fly with Dan soon. He's just down the road. Thanks for your input.

[@desertdog185]

Scott. You videos are of such value. I’m confident that stimulating these conversations could be responsible for lives saved. Thanks

[@jimdavis1939]

Let's review the PC12 accident, ~107 lbs over gross, out of aft CG limits, more people than seats, improperly de-iced airplane, snow on the runway, warned by the airport manager that it was not advisable to take off, (to the point that he said "you guys are crazy") and this guy departed into a 500' ceiling in blowing snow. This was not just bad judgement and poor decision making, it was unconscionable. Just a complete tragedy.

[@mouser485]

That kind of thinking the pilot exhibited should be criminal

[@biastv1234]

Typically called a catastrafuck

[@naijapilotxmax6006]

@@biastv1234 😀

[@TheBeingReal]

RichPeopleItis

[@samrapheal1828]

​@@TheBeingReal Exactamondo 🤦‍♂️

[@ldoyle3rd]

I wish the airport manager would have parked the snow plow on the runway and said, sorry it's closed. That's about the only thing that would have saved them.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

"you guys are crazy" seems like the understatement of the year!

[@unclebob4964]

Scott, excellent review of the PC-12. What a classic, avoidable crash. It’s difficult to call it an accident.

[@nancychace8619]

The best aircraft in the world cannot overcome poor decisions. Sorry for these losses. RIP.

[@darrylr]

The Pilatus crash stretches gethomeitis stupidity to the limits. How can somebody with 1200 hours on type be so utterly clueless and dangerous... and if he's been taking risks like this before it's amazing he's survived. I feel for the airport manager and lodge employees who not only could not stop this dangerous idiot but who had to help deal with the aftermath of this crash.

[@jeffhicks1008]

Yeah and then killing 3 generations of family members.

[@m118lr]

…almost qualifies as a ‘survivor’s guilt’ scenario. Really unbelievable..

[@bigmuz_pilot]

Probably got away with aft cg, overweight etc lots of times. Crazy stuff..

[@samrapheal1828]

​@@bigmuz_pilot Correctamundo 💯

[@electricalmayhem]

@@bigmuz_pilot yes he probably has been getting away with one thing at a time and “nothing bad happened”, normalisation of deviation, then he starting adding them together…..

[@chrisanderson4799]

I am a Corporate Pilot with over 11,300 TT in all types of Corporate Jets and Turboprops. Additionally I have about 5,000 hrs in Pilatus Aircraft, 3,800 in the PC12 and 1,100 in the PC24. The video tells the whole story. It’s very easy to get a late model PC12 in a AFT CG situation when you put in 8 passengers with any baggage. (Most PC12’s are set up with 6 executive passenger seats and 2 removable jump seats along with the 2 crew member seats). It’s clear the aft CG plus the additional weight of the non removed snow and ice on the tail resulted in an aggressive pitch up on rotation. On last point to add is all PC12’s have one switch called “Probes”. It turns on the heat to the pitot tubes, static ports, and AOA vanes. If something wasn’t heated it could only be one of three things. A tripped breaker to that individual system, bad wiring to that individual system, or a failed individual heater. So in this case of a pitot tube not being heated it was not because of Pilot erroneous selecting it on. Additionally all systems are monitored and would have resulted in a CAS Message alerting the pilot of the individual failure.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for the input!

[@tonyradmilovich3154]

Was there actually ANYTHING that he DIDN'T do wrong? Short of starting the engine, it looks like he somehow managed to screw up virtually every aspect of that short-lived flight. Absolutely un-f***ing-believable.

[@alekseysanin]

Snow / ice on the tail added to the over gross and also moved GC more aft.

[@sixwillwin]

Great report. I am from South Dakota and have been in to Chamberlain hundreds and hundreds of times. In fact I did recurrent training in my airplane on the same exact day. I’ve never seen the videos of the takeoff like you posted. Obviously the airport operator had his doubts because of all the pictures and videos. I know him a little bit and he’s a straight shooter. A good guy that works hard to keep the airport open whenever possible. I remember seeing the wreckage and wondering how three people could ever survive that. Sadly, this is a case of an owner operator, being the pilot, and having to get home at all cost.

[@slapeters2004]

This is probably the best accident review videos I’ve ever seen. Bravo! And by the sounds of the PC12 crash, it was a cacophony of warnings and incredibly stupid choices. How many external factors and warnings do you need before you as the pilot say “NO GO”??! By far, the ruggedness of the Pilatus air frame and the all glass luxury cockpit are my favorite for a variety of reasons, but DANG…I wouldn’t trust any airplane in those weather conditions. I mean how many warnings did they need to call it and stick around another day? Makes my blood boil how preventable this crash was.

[@mtkoslowski]

When will pilots of general aviation learn that engine failure shortly after takeoff requires that you land straight ahead. Trying to return to the field at low altitude and low speed invariably results in an incipient spin and impact with terrain. RIP

[@Saltlick11]

Excellent video. So sad. Great lessons here. Hard to believe the decision profile here w/r/t PC12 especially. Unbelievable actually. Appreciate your work. RIP.

[@owenmerrick2377]

If the Pilatus wreckage was photographed the next day, ironically the weather was quite pretty after the front went thru. Unfortunately, prayers won't cover bad judgement. And if your B36 won't run sweetly....I ain't going. Terrible decisions.

[@earlpreston1043]

I am personally familiar with the people involved in this tragedy. The senseless loss of life, and the end of a thriving family business have caused wounds that will never heal in the lives of the wives and children left behind. We in GA are all paying a price for this incompetent act through higher aviation insurance rates.

[@Thundersnowy]

Savage!

[@bellboy4074]

Yeah, how does this affect me. Nice job.

[@longhair-dontcare9983]

Thank you for this presentation, Scott. The PC-12 was a classic case of "Get-there-i-tus."

[@davidabrahammaicolliersint8625]

Thanks!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks David!

[@thoughtgarden8090]

I've only flown in a plane once and I jumped out of it skydiving. But I love listening to you talk about this stuff, because it challenges my brain to learn and understand new concepts. You speak so clearly and concisely about it, and with such passion; it gets me excited about it. You are a treasure to the aviation industry, thank you for doing what you do

[@jeffreythompson9549]

So, one take-off, zero landings...

[@thoughtgarden8090]

@@jeffreythompson9549 exactly hahaha

[@Allen46u5k]

very good explanation .

[@MrSuzuki1187]

Scott, I am a 73 year old retired United 757/767 pilot and currently fly a PC-12NG professionally for a wealthy family. I have a total of 30,000 hours and about 1,000 hours in the Pilatus. From the video of the accident Pilatus taking off, it took my breath away at the pilots way too aggressive rotation and the excessive angle of his initial climb. The pitch changes up and and down with the stall warning sounding were most likely caused by the stick pusher which violently pushes the nose down when approaching critical angle of attack. I fly out of an uncontrolled field on a mountain top in Pennsylvania where the FBO has no deicing capability. If it is snowing, I keep my plane in our heated hangar with tug connected to the nose wheel and the hangar doors open. Every checklist item is complete up to pushing the engine start switch. I give the signal to pull us out of the hangar and disconnect the tug ASAP, start the engine, and taxi the very short distance to the departure runway. Without delay, I take off with flaps 15, rotating at 100 knots, keeping the angle of attack/pitch attitude very low. I then accelerate to 150 knots before retracting the flaps. It may not be by the book, but it works and is safe because I keep the angle of attack very low and most of the snow blows off during takeoff. I would never do this if my airplane had been parked outside in the snow, only from my heated hangar. Even though I have been flying continuously for over well 56 years, I still watch your videos and those of Dan and Juan as I still want to learn from you awesome pilots.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent comment Joel and you mitigate the risk very well!

[@davedoe6445]

I wonder if after the abrupt pitch-up on takeoff on the accident flight - did the loose passengers (and probably loose luggage) all got tossed onto the aft bulkhead of the fuselage? If so, I would think that would suddenly torque the nose up and reduce pitch stability even more?

[@rogerhatcher3502]

Thanks Scott! Very good review of the facts in this avoidable accident. Years ago, I was a young Lear 25 Charter Captain, I was fired because I refused to takeoff overweight. The customer didn't want to stop for fuel. My Chief Pilot told me "everything would be fine, the aircraft had plenty of power". Many times in my 45 years of flying, I had to say NO, even if it was an unpopular or inconvenient decision for everyone involved. Today, I'm an old retired pilot that never hurt anybody.......

[@samrapheal1828]

Exactamondo maximus ✔️

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks. Roger!

[@timdykes6675]

I’ve been reading accident reports for multiple decades . The PC 12 has left me speechless. Pride and arrogance on behalf of the pilot killed himself and injured or killed 11 of his friends that trusted him. He knew better. Scott’s words, catastrophic event, sums it up. So sad

[@jimheckert5383]

Great video. Thanks Scott. 🇺🇸🍀🇺🇸

[@tonyradmilovich3154]

Had the pilot of the PC-12 somehow survived, I think there could be a fair case to be made for some sort of criminal negligence charge to have been made against him. At the very least, a civil action by the families of the victims (I specifically used the word "victims" instead of passengers). His actions are some of the most foolhardy and arrogant I've ever heard of. I know all about the dangers of "Getthereitsis" but at some point you would think that basic survival instincts would kick in, especially when both the airport manager and your right-seater are tossing pretty strong warnings toward you. All fatal crashes are tragedies but this one was so easily avoidable that it really manages to surpass that description.

[@m118lr]

BOTH of these tragedies are AS BAD AS IT GETS. But BOTH, also..didn’t HAVE to be reviewed on FlyWire either. THE ‘PILOTS’ made the choices to fly each of these planes in what would almost ALWAYS be rain-checks’ OR RE-scheduled/declined flights. Sad that more responsible pilots hadn’t been onboard both days. The 1st accident reviewed was more typical of a GA incident WHEN both plane AND pilot weren’t on the same page..with the plane having issues and as I understand it, the pilot quite possibly NOT recognizing the significance of those issues (while the prior ‘prospective buyer’ declined the purchase). The 2nd featured pilot/incident was absolutely insane and CARELESS in regards to all those onboard..not to mention himself. ‘Get-There-itis’ killed them all..plain and simple. Thanks Scott. Fantastic overview(s) as always..

[@Austinmediainc]

PC-12 accident, I have no words. I really just can't comprehend what the pilot or anyone flying with him was thinking. Any one of the 5 major issues should have been enough to cancel the flight, not to mention the airport managers additional warning.

[@lockedin60]

Scott I think most people had come to the conclusion that the PC-12 56KJ should have never taken off that day. They could have chartered another plane that had more room for everyone and all the gear associated with hunting. Plus chartering another plane would have given the responsibility of flying to a professional pilot.

[@MrSuzuki1187]

They had no way to deice the horizontal stabilizer as it was some 10 above their heads. This could have led to a tailplane stall.

[@georgeallensmo]

Your usual excellent analysis

[@ourlifeinwyoming4654]

Excellent reviews Sir.

[@edsal26]

“ eh I think we’ll be ok” The last words of too many.

[@madelinescafe8573]

Another great analysis. Sounds like one of the hazardous attitudes at play here (It won't happen to me). Can't wait to hear the analysis on the PC-12 out of Reno.

[@gregspohn1236]

Great review of the tc 36. I think I first saw this on "What you haven't seen." Another aircraft accident investigative channel. They only had video and no verbal content. Still a great channel. However without the commentary.

[@davekennedy6323]

As I listen to this for the second time in in 10 months, I admire your professional tone. I am sitting here listening and becoming angry at the PIC on this flight....such a waste of life...My dad taught me the dangers of GHI.....it is the switch for me.............Your tone is so factual and good.

[@edgarmuller6652]

Normally there is a weak link that causes the chain to break. In the case of the PC12 there seams to have been all weak links waiting for a strong one to keep it together. Operational pressure is only bad if we as pilot accept it. No excuse.

[@lynnkramer1211]

I have heard (second or third hand) that the boss was a demanding hothead that liked to fire people and humiliate others. If that was true, the pilot, being an employee, might have been reluctant to admit that the conditions were too adverse to proceed. He might have been afraid of being fired if he could not complete the mission. That would be especially sad.

[@myrlstone8904]

This all comes under the definition of being a professional pilot. Early in my career, I lost a flying job because I could not complete the mission - winter weather related. It hurt at the time. The young pilot who replaced me, lost his life to a mountain impact while shooting an approach to our home airport. A couple of years later another mountain impact in almost the same spot. This time another younger pilot and unfortunately three charter passengers. The FAA subsequently shut the operation down for a time. I knew exactly how these accidents occurred. These pilots were doing things which I refused to do in the name of completing the mission. It cost me my first flying job, but I’m now retired from aviation rather than having been dug out of a smoldering pile of aircraft debris.

[@taproom113]

@@myrlstone8904 Amen.

[@janepenfield201]

You nailed it.

[@chrisanderson2311]

Couple of things about this. #1 The pilot was the boss/owner. #2 having personally known the pilot I can say he was not a hot head. He was a really good man who made some very poor decisions.

[@m118lr]

@@chrisanderson2311 No one, certainly not me..can argue HIS particular personality traits. NOT with YOUR personal relationship as having known him then. Not that I would anyway. Sorry for your loss..

[@chrisg9627]

Thank you.

[@kobyonekanobie2790]

Love your channel , but I noticed your windows in the background Jeld-Wen I sold those for forty years Wood, Cladwood, and Vinyl and was the salesman that sold Dick Wents (owner) first load of windows the JX7 if you ever have any questions feel free to get a hold of me, love your work.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Koby! Those windows are in my new hangar/apartment right now!

[@LTVoyager]

This PC-12 crash is just another confirmation that you can’t fix stupid. It isn’t often that you see such complete idiocy from a pilot with anything above a student ticket.

[@jimw1615]

Student pilots are still learning, and I would assert are much safer than this PC-12 pilot was. This pilot was above reproach and knew it all . . . a bold pilot who will never be old.

[@gtarick1225]

Most controllers would expect any pilot within the 90 degree of the IAF to do a straight in... If I was king for a day it would be mandatory for atc to specify "straight in" approach or "full approach" when clearing in the fashion. Great video!!!!

[@lorendjones]

The PC-12 crash might be a testament to how forgiving and capable and aircraft that it is.....up to a point. But there are limits to everything. I'm guessing this isn't the first time he had pushed the limits and the PC-12 overlooked his errors. But he simply pushed it too far this time. Such an unnecessary waste. I can't imagine anyone thinking that much snow on a horizontal stabilizer would be ok. There's a reason the airlines live by the "clean aircraft" concept....NOTHING can be adhering to any critical surface.

[@None-zc5vg]

How do you (adequately) clean that high tail when on a small airstrip where facilities are primitive, so the ice-removal could be limited to teetering on a ladder, waving a brush or trying to slosh de-icer fluid out of a can ?

[@sarahmacintosh6449]

I'm with the airport manager: what were these guys thinking?!?!? Condolences to the victims and families from both crashes 😞💜

[@RaysDad]

I wonder if any of the passengers on the PC-12 were wearing headsets and heard the exchange between the pilot and the airport manager?

[@jeffhicks1008]

I don't think so because because even if one of those young boys was to hear that conversation would probably scream out "let me outta here"

[@m118lr]

..interesting question.

[@alk672]

Yeah I mean you can do all AQP and sim training you want, but if you're willing to depart like that PC-12 pilot was willing to depart... I mean, there's a limit to what physics will allow.

[@GWAYGWAY1]

The pictures of the Pilatus clearly shows the tail plane covered in sticking Ice or snow, it would be impossible to reach up to clear the top. All the other factors added up and voila!, the crash happens.

[@bulwinkle]

I would avoid calling the PC incident an accident. The crew deliberately broke all the rules and despite well-intentioned good advice he continued to depart with his craft overloaded and in severe icing conditions. The result was inevitable and definitely not anaccident.

[@dannyfowler7055]

I’m very sorry for the loss of life, but this was 100% preventable, should never have happened. Even a cursory glance at the tail of that aircraft screams “keep it on the ground”. As a passenger I would never have got onboard. Sad day…

[@m118lr]

THING is..a LOT, probably more than we could imagine, EXPECT all pilots KNOW what they’re doing, and just blindly..NAIVELY board a plane that SHOULD BE grounded. At least temporarily. “Critical thinking skills”, aren’t a part of all passenger’s skill sets..

[@charlesfaure1189]

@@m118lr They generally don't have the knowledge. You can't use critical thinking in a state of ignorance. It's natural to assume your pilot doesn't want to be dead, only slightly less natural to assume he/she must know what he/she's doing. Perhaps we need a 'passenger's app' to provide the red flags needed to identify an idiot pilot?

[@mesillahills]

Not the first fatal hunting return home accident out of South Dakota. My friend piloting an A36 died on a Sunday night returning home from Winner S.D. to Anderson, Indiana in 2002. Winner is the pheasant hunting capital of the world. Two others also died in the crash too . On a filed instrument flight plan, they flew into a thunderstorm over Missouri. About 11 minutes earlier they spoke to a controller out of K.C. who failed to mention the Cat 4-5 storm directly ahead of them. Lawsuits against the FAA were filed for failure to warn of something they knew existed. I do not know the outcome. Interestingly, a fourth person turned down the week-end hunting trip on Friday morning citing personal safety concerns as the reason for not going along. My friend the pilot stated to him, "your missing a hunting trip of a lifetime".

[@chuckschillingvideos]

Ultimately, the pilot is responsible for weather avoidance, not ATC. Did this pilot request weather updates from ATC? Sounds like no. There are MANY weather reporting services available to pilots to warn them of severe weather both before takeoff and during flight. If he failed to avail himself of these, it's on him and no one else.

[@57Jimmy]

Where did the PC-12 ‘pilot’ get his licence…or maybe it was a fishing licence. Total screwup that destroyed so many lives.

[@12345fowler]

That fabric behind you is spotless. Citabria ?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

My Stearman

[@roythird5141]

So, the pilot was the business owner and family member. Looking at some of the vids online, he looks like he was a real "can-do" personality. This was something he thought he could do in spite of the red flags. Some high powered business leaders get used to ignoring red flags; they believe that to succeed you need to "run some red lights" so to speak. Getthereitis sounds inappropriate. These guys were wealthy; it wouldn't matter if they were late. I think what it came down to was a confident man who was presented with a challenge that he figured he could overcome, just as he had done so many times before in his life.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

That is very possible!

[@roythird5141]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Just a theory; could be wrong. BTW, thank you for your great channel.

[@dukeford8893]

I suspect it wasn't just the pilot driving the decision to go. From what I've read, every adult on that plane had some type of commitment, business meeting, follow-on flight, etc. that would have been negatively impacted had they not gotten back that day.

[@z-licious]

@roythird5141 I've known Kirk and his family for almost 20 years. He was a good man and had a wonderful family who were kind and generous. I appreciate your evaluation and I agree with your interpretation. He was not arrogant or a narcissist as everyone like to claim. He wasn't a typical "rich guy" with more money than brains. He loved his family more than anything and gave back to our small community.

[@user-cs1xz]

@@z-licious if he was so great, why was he talking down about the airport manager? "i could have cleaned this snow in 30 mins with my truck" please. the guy was a prick and risked the lives of his whole extended family and lost.

[@Maynardtkrebs]

“Accident” is when a deer runs onto the runway and causes a crash. Both of these were negligent operation crashes. Great analysis. RIP innocent victims of the incompetent pilots.

[@jameswiddowson3976]

I'm still picking my jaw off the floor, what on earth were these pilots thinking of. It would have been bad enough had they been the only ones on board, but to take the lives of others due to shear stupidity is beyond belief. I feel so sorry for the airport manager, who despite his best efforts (other than standing in the middle of the runway waving his arms) had to watch this terrible incident unfold before his eyes.

[@HootisGarage]

This very thing happened at our airport a few summers ago on final operator. Error pilot flipped the pump to high when it started to stumble and actually he just made it richer Scott I believe it’s different Also, Lycoming versus continental?

[@ellisandrews440]

It is so important to expect an engine failure on takeoff from every airport and the runway you will use that time at that airport. Never turn back in low and slow so examine your options as to where you will set the aircraft down ahead of you and ahead of time. In the second accident examined here I just have to shake my head as so many mistakes. Yes get home Itis as mentioned is the cause. Rest in peace for those who died in these two unavoidable accidents.

[@montaukflying9933]

I went on a hunt there right after this crash occurred. When the folks that run the hunting lodge found out I was a pilot they told me about the manual de-icing debacle. I can’t believe that these people decided not to stay one more day at this beautiful hunting lodge that was minutes away. Money for another nights stay could not have been the issue. Way over confident in the capabilities of their plane and pilot. The people that run the lodge were devastated from the loss of a whole family that they just hosted. Just too many no go decisions past up. What a shame. Shear stupidity, I’m sorry to say.

[@rbhoward9123]

Hazardous attitudes = loss of life, 2 pilots killing themselves, 9 total passengers, a young child in a ground moving vehicle, seriously injuring 3 in-flight passengers, and the mother of the deceased child. Better training alone cannot stop a person's attitude about "should I fly this plane this way today?"

[@m118lr]

..yeah, I SURE feel for the mother..

[@charlesfaure1189]

Yes. A huge proportion of these accidents are the result of character issues--not just poor judgment, but a lack of serious consideration for others aboard or on the ground. These pilots were careless with the lives that were in their hands.

[@unclebob4964]

How do you train common sense ? It can certainly be tested. The problem is failure results in death. I will never understand these 2 “pilots” decisions. The “black box” on the PC-12 pretty much summed up the decision making skills and attitude of that particular…..again, I hate to use the term “pilot.”

[@toddbaker7731]

Hey Scott, any chance you could look into the crash involving a PA-46 near Yoakum Texas back in January. Thanks Scott.

[@toddbaker7731]

Please?

[@toddbaker7731]

Pretty please?

[@toddbaker7731]

Please….

[@toddbaker7731]

Please

[@toddbaker7731]

Lol. Please?

[@lancomedic]

Question: Can an airport manager at a non-towered airport close an airport?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Yes he could have done that. Doesn’t mean the pilot would not have tried to takeoff though.

[@lancomedic]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Thanks.

[@peterallen3105]

You might need to read POH on fuel pump procedures

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Me? Or the pilot?

[@peterallen3105]

The only way I could convince owners to keep POH in aircraft was inform him he had no insurance with out it. Never figured out how to get them to read it. Doctor In A36TC was over dallas in august with family and engine started running rough. Brought plane to me and I showed him in POH where it said to turn on fuel pump in hot weather. Scared him so bad he sold plane and quit flying.

[@MrSuzuki1187]

Scott, they had no way to deice the top of the horizontal stabilizer that was contaminated with ice and snow as it is some 10 feet above ground level. I have written several articles for magazines on tailplane stalls, ie, the stalling of the stabilizer, which results in a rapid and uncontrollable pitch over. Could that have been the reason for their pitch over?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Joel, ice was a factor, aft cg was a factor. The airplane stalled because of the pilot induced pitch oscillations that diverged over time.

[@dwaynemcallister7231]

Putting trust in a pilot who is not trustworthy, be careful who you trust to fly you somewhere. He didn't seem to respect what could happen when he stacked the deck against his intended flight. The passengers trust was betrayed by the pilot here.

[@Leo-fk9ch]

Referencing the Bonanza crash. My A36 has an auxiliary electric fuel pump switch within close proximity of the throttle. It sits below to the left, three positions., middle is off, down prime or high, up is low. On a Biannual check ride we did several stall recoveries. On one, after advancing the throttle I inadvertently hit the fuel pump switch placing it in the high position. Within seconds the engine lost all power. Two sets of eyes along with 50 plus years of combined flying experience didn’t immediately identify the problem. Instead, after flying the airplane out of the stall recovery and thankfully having generouscaltitude, could the problem be identified. It took well over two minutes once straight and level. My point is, if this happened on departure there would not be enough altitude to take two minute to identify and resolve. Nose down, pick a spot to crash. For every Bonanza owner that has a similar fuel boost switch location, keep this experience in your inventory and include it in your problem solving flow chart.

[@brianbob7514]

I wonder how often people get away with the kind of stuff that PC12 pilot did

[@charlesfaure1189]

Often. "There but for the grace of God go I" is a common theme in the pilot community. And if you watch enough youtube videos put up by pilots of their exploits you'll see stupidities committed from time to time. I've seen more than one inadvertant VFR into IMC--simply stupidly flying into a cloud bank--with the aircraft emerging in a serious overbank or dangerous pitch attitude.

[@samrapheal1828]

"Take off's are optional. Landings are mandatory. Plan accordingly."⚠️

[@lessharratt8719]

That is not just get homeitus. That is criminal negligence. Examples must be made.

[@samrapheal1828]

@les starrett - Your ego is NOT your Ally or Amigo🤦‍♂️

[@GlideYNRG]

PC-12 incident should never have happened. How many times had the PIC gotten away with that behaviour? As far as human factors/behaviours goes, a good example of what not to to do.

[@kwittnebel]

You need to do an update on that Tango and Juliet crash in the 140 in AZ. The prelim report and all the amulance chaser vids were completely wrong in their speculation about the cause and it shows that videos should be more circumspect about proximate causes. The prelim didnt even get the phase of flight correct for the crash.

[@dboss7239]

Scott, your insights are always revealing and important and your nickels on the grass are invaluable. But I have a question on the North Perry accident: Are you saying the auxiliary boost pump will overpressure the fuel system in this model Bonanza? And that it is a checklist item to have it OFF for takeoff? Does this engine have a carburetor or is it fuel injected? Sorry that is 3 questions.... Fuel injected makes no sense as there would be a return line where excess flow can return to the tanks so theoretically no over pressure could occur in a properly designed fuel injection system. So this/these idiots ignored the (aux boost pump) checklist item, even after seeing that the mixture got too rich on the ground presumably when they switched it on during a runup; and then switched it on again at 2-300 ft AGL, killing the engine; and then did not push the nose over and fly straight when power was lost.... a dark triad of ignorance and missteps... Initially I merely thought they made the mistake of attempting the impossible turn, but it seems their combined ignorance had a chain of bad choices leading to this tragedy.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Yes, yes and it is fuel injected but the system works more like a car Mass Airflow injection system. The fuel return line can’t handle the additional psi.

[@CaptainReverendo]

Just goes to show that nothing can stop a pilot hell bent on killing his aircraft. The PC12 crew had so many cues that an accident chain was forming it would take a special sort of arrogance to proceed regardless. If someone, anyone, told me that what I was about to do with my airplane was “crazy”, I’m going to shut down, start over and be really sure which one of us is the idiot before taking another step forward.

[@thomasmyers9128]

My brother is a pilot…..I generally cut the firewood and he pile it😂 One of my favorite pilot jokes….

[@user-cs1xz]

i dont get it lol

[@thomasmyers9128]

@ …. Doesn’t work written very well…. He pilot… pile it … told in a cuntree act sent…

[@user-cs1xz]

@@thomasmyers9128 lol i see, thanks for responding to me :))

[@CherokeeFlyr]

Madness! Total disregard for established safety and flight planning procedures. 100% unprofessional and totally reckless disregard for human life.

[@TheBeingReal]

Too worried about the rich passengers they shoehorned into the plane. Frankly if one is so stupid to get on a plane with more peopie than seats: you earned the results. One has to bet this was not the first time that pilot pushed the limits and got lucky.

[@Firestorm637]

What made it so important to take off in snowy weather like that and poor deicing. If you really need to go somewhere go with the airlines. Remember Buddy Holly

[@michaelwilliamsd.o.5006]

Talk about aeronautical decision making nuclear meltdown

[@kenkessner9594]

The PC-12 accident; not only did he make numerous mistakes, I dare say his conduct was criminal! (retired helo/turbo jet PIC 9,800hrs).

[@chuck_in_socal]

If everything is fine don’t adjust anything until you have some altitude.

[@tbas8741]

AC report #1 - Why dont the Planes have aFuel Pressure Regulator so regardless how high the flow pressure into pipe is it cannot exceed the pressure / flow that injectors or Carbie can handle.. Obviously being a turbo charged engine it should have a 1:1 rising rate regulator 1psi boost = 1psi more fuel pressure just like in car engine.

[@Bill_Woo]

GetHomItus is far too charitable. There was nothing hasty or rushed. He simply broke unbreakable rules across the board. It's one thing to look at the conditions and his negligence thereof, and murderous defiance of warnings from outside and even INSIDE the craft. But to bust weight? Bust CG? Not even THINK about those mandatory, mandatory items? Even in perfect conditions?? Nine or twelve lives. GetHomItus is not only charitable, this guy didn't even come close to anything except fatal, unfathomable negligence.

[@elizabeth5985]

As a passenger and not a pilot, I try to think how I could be responsible for my life and not have this happen to me. It's so hard, because when the pilot says "Oh, it's no problem, we're fine," I would think I'm just being a nervous flyer and I need to listen to the pro. I wonder if Kobe Bryant was asking the helicopter pilot, "Are you sure it's safe?" (considering LAPD helicopters were grounded due to low visibility, but they took off from 60 miles south planning to fly right through LA), or was he saying, "We need to get to my daughter's game, let's do this!" Could he have affected the outcome since he was paying the pilot? Just my thoughts.

[@I-0-0-I]

Just dropping in to ask if you could give your take on the F-15EX. I have heard that mixing 4.5 and 5th gen in a strike package can be pretty neat. I really appreciated your level headed analysis on Ukraine in the past. Would love to hear your take on the EX and how it would, or wouldn't work in the modern peer environment.

[@JamesDonald-bl3zp]

The second plane in the snow, i think if you start putting 12 people on a plane you need to have at least a DC3 or a lear jet, not a small plane like that one was, or use two airplanes , 12 people is a lot of damn weight, not even counting their cargo

[@Joe_Not_A_Fed]

Holy crap. The pilot of the Pilatus basically committed suicide. Unfortunately, he also basically committed murder. As a rule, I hope that accidents can teach lessons to make flying safer overall. The lesson with the Pilatus crash...If that pilot had survived...he should have spent the rest of his life in prison.

[@charlesfaure1189]

It isn't possible to make basically irresponsible people safer. It's a character issue, not a competence issue.

[@airbill1793]

Terrible tragedy. Better de-icing and more airspeed is needed. That T-Tail is tough to reach to de-ice due to its' height. At the end of the day, airspeed is life. Stay low and accelerate before a drastic pitch-up. Between 11:57-12:00, the climb is way too aggressive to allow speed to build up. I would have never had taken off with that much ice on the tail. Sounds like pilot didn't request deicing help.(Where there's a will, there is a way.) If I had a gun to my head, I would keep flaps up and not break gorund till 115kts, stay low to build airspeed and a very slight climb to keep fast. Nothing but cornfields out there. Also sounds like the owner/person in the co-pilots seat was giving the pilot a way out with the ice questions. "Nope, ice didn't come off, taxi back?"

[@TheRoguelement]

I was wondering is spatial disorientation a problem for low time pilots or can it hit even the most experienced .. This pilots attitude is what happens when complacency rules the day .

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

It can hit any pilot, regardless of experience level.

[@davidbaldwin1591]

Scott, would you consider a cursory study comparing luxury car and suv use versus aircraft use, and why that thought process is misleading and dangerous? Am I the only one who seems to think people use their airplanes like cars? "If we encounter trouble, we'll just pull over and call a tow truck. We always make it anyway. Let's get going!"

[@publicmail2]

What horrible odds, it killed a toddler in the backseat of suv, mother ok, horrible, can't imagine...

[@Ch1n4Sailor]

I heard C-12, but looking at the a/c taxi out, looks nothing like a UC-12

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

C-2 is a KingAir. A twin engine turboprop. The second airplane is a PC-12, Pilatus.

[@bartofilms]

I think Airport Operators, including Maintenance Personnel familiar with the runway environment should have the authority to close the airport if they believe it to be unsafe.

[@utah20gflyer76]

They do, my home airport closes for snow removal all the time.

[@slartybarfastb3648]

The PC-12 seems to be the latest 'doctor killer'. Except instead of killing only the doctor and maybe his wife, the PC-12 allows the doctor to take 7 people with him.

[@russellharris5072]

Denial kills a lot of pilots,all the indicators point to this guy being under the influence of denial."I'll be fine","its ok." Denial is such a big problem that someone wrote a book on the subject,I can't remember who,but it convinced me..................................

[@Sagerat83]

PC-12 107 lbs over weight, plus the weight of the ice and snow on the plane

[@user-iw3mr2lv6f]

Sad others died. Why was he not much higher?

[@markmuir7338]

If the witness reports of engine sputtering during the takeoff roll are accurate, the aircraft had less power available than normal, so got airborne later along the runway and had a slower climb than normal. That's why there wasn't enough altitude to safely complete a turn-around.

[@myrlstone8904]

Why was he not higher ? - lack of engine power. Turning the boost pump on high caused the engine mixture to be much too rich. In effect flooding the engine. The root cause of this accident is lack of knowledge in operating the Beech Bonanza. In some aircraft turning on the boost pump would have been an appropriate action, in the Bonanza not. A pilot must know the operating procedures for each aircraft which he is flying. The attempted turn back, poor decision making. The chances of the turn being successful are very slim.

[@tbas8741]

AC report #1 - 12 people in a over gross weight pc12 in such weather is more than just reckless its Idiotic. (sorry to be so blunt im Aussie :D) Its seems so silly of a thing to do with all warning for AP manager its like they were drunk from a party night before or worse (drugged) i mean who in their sane right mind would do that. (I doubt even AF pilots in a C-130 or similar would try in such conditions even if ordered to) This 2nd accident report made me feel literally Sick with disgust. Also with people not in their seats as not enough seats its likely that when stalling started they could have panicked and ran to back of plane and made recovery impossible. (sorry if any of the pilots family see this, no offence but gross negligence on pilots behalf killed so many)

[@f14flyer11]

This Pilatus crash is beyond stupid and was completely unnecessary......

[@bigjeff1291]

How sad AND avoidable.

[@None-zc5vg]

From a purely aesthetic point of view , the PC12 looks like one of those clever modern planes that have had a lot of the 'redundancy' designed out of them. In plan view the fuselage looks too long and the high-set horizontal tail surfaces look too small. It just looks 'unbalanced',' on-the-edge', as if the c.g. were already so far aft that a hundred misplaced pounds would put the plane on its tail. In short, it just looks like an accident waiting to happen, a trap for a sloppy pilot.

[@jacknisen]

Had an experimental plane in Iraq that would lose power on takeoff during hot weather. I tested it by using hi boost pump and leaning it out a bunch. Worked well. It was a TIO550. Thinking it was vapor lock.

[@scottbeyer101]

Another plane over gross at takeoff. Poor runway conditions. A/C is contaminated. Ceilings 500. I am just a nominal pilot at 60 hours and I would never attempt a takeoff CLOSE to gross. This pilot had 10X my hours. Somebody please explain.

[@jimw1615]

There is nothing else to explain, however. The video that Scott put out paints a very clear picture of what they know and uncovers the mindset of the PIC very well.

[@BixbyConsequence]

The aft CG was lurking as the killer, even on a sunny day.

[@robertbandusky9565]

Let’s see….Over gross…too many pax….improper deice….ice on runway….No hope👨‍✈️

[@Andre.D550]

😎