Mystery of Bonanza A35 N8743A Final Report Update

Mystery of Bonanza A35 N8743A Final Report Update
/ flywire
FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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[@BobDenny]

Having read some of the other comments and I'm sorry I missed your original report. I owned Bonanza (1949) A35 N8595A for 6 years and about 300 hours, including a bunch of actual IFR and lots of night. Yeah, call me crazy. I bought it as a sorry mess and then did the the E-225 upgrade and the oil transfer collar Hartzell propeller. It was wonderful, it had the aft-mounted aux fuel tank as well. With that and the mains you could get from LA to Jackson, WY with one conservative fuel stop. Not bad. Yes it was a "forked tail doctor killer" due to how easy it was to overspeed in a descent and it had super low flap/gear speeds. OK, here are a couple of ways to run out of fuel in the A-35. (1) The fuel selector is integrated with the manually operated "bug sprayer" aux fuel pump. It is easy to miss a tank change if you don't get that handle all the way down and feel the detents. But wait there's more, the FAA issued an AD Note to have a microswitch installed with an amber light that would supposedly be "on" if the handle is not down enough to get the fuel selector detents. Nonetheless it is still easy to miss a fuel tank switch. Pay attention! (2) This is the big one. The engine driven fuel pump and carburetor returns (foggy memory here) 3-4 gallons an hour for vapor-lock prevention ALWAYS INTO THE LEFT TANK . So in the Beech POH it makes a big deal about burning the left tank first. This makes room for the vapor return fuel. So if you fill-er-up, then start out on the right or aux tank, you're gonna piss 3-4 +/- gallons out of the left main overflow, and it's gone forever. The E225 if I recall burns about 8-9 gallons an hour "pocketbook cruise" (55% at 8,500) so after burning 18 gallons out of the right, you've pissed 8-ish gallons, nearly an hour's worth, of fuel out the overflow! A quick bit of simple arithmetic will show you how you can get to "What the hell happened to my fuel???".

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Great comments Bob, thanks!

[@azav8raa]

Thanks for the update Scott. I too have been closely following the investigation in to the crash of 43A. I knew the pilot from Intel where we both worked. We were in different areas, so I really couldn't comment on his approach to professional work, and I never flew with him, but I did engage in several "hangar flying" sessions because of our mutual love of aviation. We had each flown in/out of the long list of satellite airports around Phoenix, so lots of common ground. I never got that little voice in the back of my head saying "Beware of this guy", but did feel that his risk tolerance was higher than mine. Base on the information (or lack of information) from the NTSB, I think he had successfully made the run from Chandler to Idaho many times before on a single fuel load, and got bit on this trip. Total speculation on my part. Like you, I would like to know the fuel status the day he departed. Why the NTSB didn't call the fuel retailers at his home field is a rather large gap in the data. Thanks again.

[@davidmangold1838]

I have a 1947 straight 35 v tail bonanza. I have 20, 20, 20 gallons as well. 17 useable in each wing and 19 useable in the aux tank-behind the back seat back(partially in the cargo area). Total useable is .53 gallons. Procedure is to only use the aft aux tank in level cruise. So as to not have fuel unavailable with nose down in descent, the most to use is 15-16 gallons, or 1:15 minutes. Longest flight I have had was 3:30, and I landed with about 45 minutes of fuel (10 gallons). That made me concerned, especially since the airport closed upon my arrival, due to a P51 off in the grass. It opened up as I was diverting, so I came back after 7 minutes, and got in okay. That I’ll never do again. My new max endurance is 2:30-3:00 hours. Having fuel is a necessity. I’ll take a delay for an enroute fuel stop, rather arrive on fumes! Lastly, I totally agree that gear up landing is preferable, full flaps, unless you find a paved surface, good road or a grass runway. Dave, 54 years flying and 28,000 hours (to put my experience in context)

[@thomasturner1099]

I finally got to watch this one…good job expressing the exasperation that accompanies some NTSB final reports when they do not provide a cause that givens us something to work with to avoid similar situations. Your suggestion that NTSB share its investigative protocols with local law enforcement is brilliant. I know two of the NTSB Members-I’ll suggest they watch this video. Thanks for another good one, Gunny.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Tom, I hope they implement the idea!

[@nicholaskennedy4310]

I've lived in Telluride Co for 45 years now, Competiton Cross Country Hang Glider Pilot, Competiton/commercial Glider pilot and 48 yr GA pilot, still fly. Alot. It takes years of active mountain flying to get a handle on it. The Density, the wind, the pressure, the sun and more all play a important role. I have given many 1-2 hr entry level mountain instruction flight's and those don't even start to scratch the surface. So advice from the cheap seats; Don't get close to the mountains, stay high, always have a easy exit, know which way the wind is blowing, say 15 or above, 25 is strong BTW--- Up high over say 12K [ lots of peaks here over 13 and 14 K ] you can find sudden sharp turbulence and downdrafts that will quickly put you in the weeds Plan your route carefully to have valleys to escape to Fly as light as practical. Mornings are best when its cool and the thermals aren't active. We have a poor safety record around Telluride, many Fatals and a ton of major scratch and dent take off's and landings.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent advice Nicholas!

[@backpages1]

An observation. In some counties, Sheriff’s Offices do not have the funding to train several deputies in crash investigation. Sometimes, SO’s handle criminal incidents, State Patrol handles crashes (which they do every day all day). Using a NTSB template, and perhaps additional input from GA pilots/FTO’s, would probably be of benefit to LE when/if the occasion presents itself. From experience, LE usually shows up, takes a few photographs, prepares a one page summary, and protects the scene until an official from NTSB or similar takes the scene. Unless a deputy or supervisor has GA experience, that’s about all you will get.

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

Scott, good discussion and I concur on your opinions as expressed. As to gear-up vs gear-down on forced landings, I believe you’re absolutely correct, gear-up is MUCH more survivable due to slower dissipation of energy. I have watched your (and other videos) on this issue, and had concluded gear-up is much safer. Then a year ago I had the “opportunity” to test it myself. I had a power-off forced landing in my Mooney 231 a year ago, landing in conditions similar to this Bonanza. In my case the cause was the #4 cylinder eating its exhaust valve and causing catastrophic damage to the engine and total loss of power. I had intended to land on a gravel road, but discovered I didn’t have enough airspeed and altitude to make it, so landed instead on a very flat pasture. I had put my gear down to land on the road, as it happens. I was determined not to stall on approach so I watched my airspeed and attitude so I met the ground just as I would a runway… at 80 KIAS, nose-up attitude. It was a textbook power-off landing. But before I could congratulate myself on that, my nose gear hit a shallow rut (cattle path) in that otherwise dead flat field, and collapsed. The right main gear also partially collapsed. I was near the end of my landing rollout so only doing maybe 25 or 30 mph. All the same, the airplane’s nose hit the ground hard, bending the airframe and of course striking the prop. I walked away from the wreck with no injuries, but if I had hit that cattle rut at 70 instead of 25, the impact energy would have been much, much harder and I believe I would have been badly injured or even killed. I took a lot of lessons out of that crash, but Lesson #1 was that if I ever have a forced landing again, I WILL NOT PUT MY GEAR DOWN. Thanks again for this video.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

James, thanks for sharing your story!

[@normm7764]

Thanks for the videos Scott. I am in Melbourne Australia. I am not familiar with the Bonanza and was not on this flight. But, the following story was relayed to me. In the mid-80's, several friends were in a Bonanza and flying into the opal fields north of Adelaide, Australia. When they were on short final (wheels down) the engine suddenly stopped. They managed to change tanks and get the engine going again - coming in short in that country would surely mean the A/C would flip as contacting an opal mine would be a certainty. What was told to me was that an "O" ring under the fuel cap had perished and the vacuum from the wing had sucked the fuel out. The same vacuum had collapsed the fuel bladder, so that the gauge was reading quite full, even though the tank was empty. Probably the drop in speed on short final had allowed the bladder to resume more normal shape - causing fuel starvation and failure of the engine. The pieces seem to fit...

[@catherinenelson4162]

Interesting. Thank you for that, sir. And thank you to Scott.

[@kewkabe]

If NTSB can't travel to an accident site for cost or logistical reasons, I'd hope instead of relying on non-aviation professionals (e.g. state troopers) to gather evidence, they could at least ask a nearby FBO and find an A&P mechanic and maybe flight instructor or other experienced pilot to be on site with them to note anything of interest that might otherwise be missed.

[@dennisdahlberg4000]

I’ve flown that model bonanza…there was never a enuf gas’s to go any where. I think you are correct, ran out of gas. Forced landing. Got about 100 feet off the ground stalled and and landed it flat. When you are in the air the desert looks flat and I probably would have dropped the gear. Anyway it’s a sad ending..

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Yeah. Interesting. Australia

[@engineeringconsulting5534]

Dennis, Yes I agree, 34 gallons usable isn't much; even if you can fly it using only 9.5 gph. From what I could tell by the pictures, there wasn't a auxillary tank in the baggage compartment; from what I could see, there isn't a gas cap on the left side. Blue Skies! Faithfully, James

[@jfkastner]

Well done, thank you. IMHO the gear down is almost like a reflex, like car drivers slam on their brakes even though they could just swerve around an obstacle

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I think you are correct. Doesn’t make it right.

[@bh8263]

I am a former Coroner Investigator and have investigated many aircraft fatalities. During the investigation did anyone review the Coroner report and photographs? The Coroner report is a separate investigation from the law enforcement report, or should be. On my investigations on these type of fatalities I took lots of photos including gages, etc. I'm not sure what this Coroner office does.

[@picogang]

Thanks Scott I always appreciate your comments on these matters. Like a breath of fresh air.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I appreciate that!

[@philipcobbin3172]

Thanks, you're right about law enforcement protocol...write and publish one....

[@bobclarie]

Thanks Scott . . . . . what you are doing is much needed . . . . . GA is benefiting from your efforts . . . . It's highly probable you are saving lives . . . . Keep it up . . . Bob

[@cbc229]

As recently retired deputy sheriff and private pilot I have a couple of thoughts. The photographs do not show any ground scarring directly behind the airplane, perhaps there is impact or skid marks perpendicular to the plane at rest location. I don't see any abrasion marks on leading edge. Hate to armchair quarterback the deputies observations but curious how the impact angle was determined. Training... accident reporting for most accidents is merely information gathering for insurance companies. However with a fatality or great bodily harm a thorough investigation should occur. That said practice makes perfect.....which means officers may never work an airplane accident in their entire career, fortunately so few especially compared to automobile accidents. With the digital age I would think and like to see no less than 100 photos taken...inside and out of the plane...up and close, controls, surrounding grounds and terrain. You can't take too many pics. Video. Unfortunately in these times law enforcement agencies are extremely shorthanded. Perhaps the billions in profit insurance companies make they could provide training and staff to investigate. I'll stop now. Prayers for the souls of the deceased and their families.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Great comments!

[@pettyfogger2305]

Greetings Scott! As a retired rural deputy sergeant, I find it highly improbable that the responders didn't take literally hundreds of photos on each of their personal camera phones, both official and unofficial. I believe responders rightly assumed that a crash with 3 victims SHOULD have drawn FAA/NTSB out of their Covid-safe ivory towers; had they had an inkling the Feds were making them the entire investigation things would have been more inclusive. Have you contacted all county departments individually to get their report file on this incident? I would bet those files are much richer in info and possibly photos than what the NTSB released. Finally, contact with the initial responders inquiring who they recall ending up on the site will reveal a bunch of cops and other responders and even the usual lookie lou ghouls out there with mountains of untapped photos, recollections and even crash wreckage preserved, especially by the public. A request for photos and info that chairbound federal investigators would sniff at and deem too tainted by mere citizens' hands is out there; you just have to ask.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I imagine you are right about that. Today’s cell phones are amazing and ubiquitous.

[@brentdykgraaf184]

With you sir.. only 2... my backside

[@pettyfogger2305]

@@brentdykgraaf184 I am sure your comment must be quite profound in your native tongue; pity it doesn't translate.

[@akissinaz6842]

I’ve had nightmares imagining a fiery ending for three members of this beloved family of five. Grateful to have found your report. While the why is still unknown, this brings some peace. I think of them often - good people, the wife a dear friend. So many of us will miss them forever.

[@OrrTrigger013]

Your comments about protocols were spot on. Great accident analysis Thank you.

[@billylain7456]

Great analysis with limited information available, Scott. Thanks!

[@lessharratt8719]

Outstanding debrief. Thank you.

[@gap9992]

I'm sure that terrain is nastier than it looks in the photos but I think most pilots would rate their chances of surviving a forced landing on it. Just take it down low with some comfort speed and then bleed it off in the flare with full flaps, gear up, to touch down at the lowest possible speed. Into wind would be a nice bonus! My first instructor said just crash as slowly as possible but never ever stall - unless you are 3 feet above the ground!

[@dukeford8893]

Those desert valleys are pretty flat with all sorts of roads. He was probably intending to land on one.

[@flyingphobiahelp]

Excellent point on ntsb giving protocols to first responders

[@joncox9719]

Looks like a high rate of descent involved! Great report Scott, THX!

[@waltermengden8927]

Condolences to the family. We can learn a lot from this thanks to Scott. Better aeronautical decision making and fuel planning , improving and practicing best practices in off field landings. Get with an instructor more often than every 2 years, etc. One point I disagree with Scott on is the NTSB's performance. They should be very embarrassed with this report after 2 years. The NTSB report is like a kindergarten coloring book project. We could get better results if they hired 4 or 5 people like Scott to cover the monthly fatal accidents. This group could get a significantly better report out in 30 days with a lot less dollars using an 80/20 rule. We should get our tax dollars back for the really poor performance by the NTSB.

[@NesconProductions]

Agree with all the sentiments but could say the same about food safety inspectors (with effects of food poisoning affecting far more people..) compared to NTSB investigators (who are professionals..) just by most accounts similarly overworked. Think more important (cost effective) that local police are given more information & training in how to collect evidence in the immediate aftermath of aviation accidents, for they are onsite much quicker and some evidence is time / weather sensitive.

[@chuckcampbell3927]

🛫📖🛬 Sir, Your comment is spot-on and I could not agree with you more. WELL SPOKEN 👍

[@DianeJonesAZHomesByJones]

This brings it all to the surface again...sadly. I know the family and this still breaks my heart. thank you for more explanation.

[@Stromzilla]

Very interesting. Thank you for sharing

[@dirtcurt1]

Scott, my experience with my E-225 D model and its fuel pump went like this. I noticed a few fuel drips on the ground after shutdown. It was coming from the overboard bypass fuel line. Then I started getting drips from the bypass tube while sitting in the hanger. Then the last flight I took I barely made an hour, and I was into the rear 20 gallon to half a tank after the first tank got low. I attributed it to not filling the rear tank fully. The invisible warning lights were on and when we landed, we had about 12-16 gallons on board for a two hour flight. So, the plane seemed to be burning about 20 gallons an hour after we did some calculations. At that point we were about to fire up the engine with a small line attached to the overflow to see what was coming out of the fuel pump past the seal. We decided to try the wobble pump engine off and bingo we had a leak. If I got the pressure up to 15 psi it was a solid stream getting past the pump seal. I called the pump over hall station, and they said they have seen as much as 10 gallons per hour get past the seal! I don't think mine was that bad, yet. My fuel selector and TF1900 are being overhauled this week. Could this guy's pump have started leaking in flight? My fuel leak left no evidence except after shutdown, nothing showed up on the belly or tail.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I think you are onto the root cause of the problem.

[@peterjurd1292]

Hi Sir, As always a most inciteful video. Regards and greetings from the UK.

[@LeonardLayne]

Great information 👍

[@johnfitzpatrick2469]

G,day Scott from Sydney Australia. Thankyou for your interpretation of the NTSB report of yet another GA crash. My takeaways * Gear up landing, unless smooth terrain. * Plane energy dissipation (glide slope, speed brakes and flaps) * Avoid fuel starvation (calculate miles and gallons). Fuel for alternative. 🌏🇦🇺

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Excellent takeaways John!

[@RedHawk785]

Good analysis. The pilot likely extended the gear with the goal of somehow landing the plane intact, minimizing damage and injuries to his passengers and himself and this was a fatal lack of good judgement. Running out of fuel and landing on such a surface with the gear down also indicates a relatively unseasoned pilot as well. Additionally, the Bonanza was nicknamed "the fork-tailed doctor killer" especially by Australians and received this handle for a reason. Like the Luftwaffe F104 being nicknamed "Widow Maker". In the case of the Bonanza it infers well-healed private pilots becoming over-confident in their ability to fly a high-performance aircraft. But I recall some 22 years ago while receiving dual instruction in a North American TF-51D Mustang I asked the instructor what he (meaning we) would do in the event of an engine-out with no re-start capability. I expected him to say he would make a forced gear-up belly-landing either with or without me still onboard or have the both of us bale out. But instead this fellow who had instructed in both the dual-control Mustang and Spitfire told me he would put the gear down and land in a field with both of us on board. Knowing more Mustang pilots were killed in forced landings than in combat I was literally amazed at this answer. Completely dumbfounded. But there is no telling what some otherwise highly experienced pilots might do in a mistaken attempt to try to save damage to their beloved airplanes.

[@mikemorgan5015]

In your dumbfounded state, did you think to ask him is reasoning for such a plan or did you immediately reply that such a landing would be with him flying solo?

[@RedHawk785]

@@mikemorgan5015 Remember the video of Kevin Eldridge's F2G Super Corsair auguring in at the Phoenix Air Races after she caught fire and he baled out? Man that was a heart-breaker to see it crater and explode. I would imagine it was a tough decision to make and any vintage warplane pilot would certainly try to make a forced landing with an engine out. In my case I could have been left with the decision to ride the Mustang in with an expert at the controls or pull my personal canopy jettison lever and dive out of the cockpit toward the wing-tip as per the manual in hopes that an escape chute packed 25 years ago was going to function. It never came to that and I enjoyed the ensuing aerobatics instruction although I could not pull more than 4Gs. I confessed later that I would not have survived my first combat sortie but then found out to my amusement that a bob-weight had been installed in the elevator to prevent some gorilla from pulling excessive Gs, overstressing the airplane and killing himself and the instructor.

[@Productivity.in.balance]

Thank you for your calm and sensible reporting on this. The pilot and passengers were dear dear friends of mine and it hurts still. I actually feel a little better knowing what most likely happened and seeing that the plane was not in a fire. My imagination and not knowing was worse. It’s still sad, but at least there are some answers. By the way, Tom was an experienced pilot. He was methodical, careful and compliant.

[@desmondleroux3444]

Finally logic and injoyable you tuber, refreshing, I'll definitely subscribe

[@FutureSystem738]

That’s Scott- I concur with your findings on this.

[@paratyshow]

👍☑ Tks Scott, lots of good questions. Hope someone acts on these shortcomings in the future.

[@Vmaxfodder]

Thanks Scott

[@jackoneil3933]

Good report and great idea for a NTSB SOP for Law Enforcement and First Responders as well Scott. Sommethig like that could be a simple manual or supplement. Your speculation about a bounce and secondary impact seems pretty plausible. I owned an A35 that had the rear Aux tank removed and range was pretty short, and many people forget to account for unusable fuel and 34 gal total does not leave you with much, so easy to run short on fuel margins in that aircraft. I generally flight planned for 2 hours legs Max and ran the right main dry on cross country legs to minimize unusable fuel. I also flew a 1950 B35 with the 20gal aux tank behind the rear seat about 200hours. The rear Aux tank was a slim so it left most of the rear baggage compartment available but did not leave much useful baggage load when filled. From a passenger safety standpoint I never put fuel in it with any passengers from W&B and Fire standpoint. I did use that tank a lot when flying solo as the B35 had an Autofuel STC and used to fill it with Autofuel and leave AvGas in the mains. Fuel management was a demanding as I typically would burn the left main down about half first, then the Aux which would would allow the fuel return to fill the left main with a mix of Auto and Avgas, burn down the right main, and use the left main for landing. In the B35 with the big aux tank, I did try a bit of slow flight and approach to stalls with the rear tank full, mains low and just me in the aircraft, and I noticed not much or down elevator travel remaining just above a stall, and far aft loading condition might make stals s a danger, it is possible to take of in GC in an early Bonanza and land out of aft CG with most or all your fuel burned. Also, the early 35 bonanzas until after the B35 or C35, the V-Stabs have a lower dihedral angle, and from what I observed seemed to have less elevator authority and more marginalized in aft CG loading, and loss of horizontal stab loss of control in a forward slip with gear and flaps extended which are prohibited. As I'd practiced dead sticks in later model Bonanzas a friend and CFI who also had a lot of Bonanza time decided to test forward slips with gear and flaps down in the B35 to be familiar in case of an emergency situation might require a slip. We observed that in a forward slip the aircraft remained stable without any sign of buffeting or pitch instability but we had greatly diminished elevator control, becoming almost to nill as the slip angle increased to an unreasonable angle until with nearly full nose down elevator, the aircraft abruptly pitched-down about 60 degrees with the yoke violently pulling forward and then popping back as I got off the rudder so fast and with such force I nearly lost my grip on it. Recovery was immediate, but if a pilot overreacted with a lot of aft stick when he saw the ground out the windshield I could see a resulting stall. I see no obvious reason to slip the aircraft in that accident situation here, but if a pilot did an extreme non-approved froward slip close to the ground at low speed it might be possible to end up in a sudden deep stall close to the ground. Unlikely event I think in this case but perhaps a precautionary tale for V-Tail drivers who feel the need to slip on landing.

[@apolloreinard7737]

Thanks for your coverage. Nice that you gave us enough facts to let the viewer draw out one's own conclusion. You hit the two most obvious. Engine out/fuel starvation. and gear down into a windblown sandbox full of clumps of plant matter. Seems at least two decisions, one major, and the other 'unlucky', made all the difference. Physical measurements are better than a written log. (Ask not for whom the bell tolls... and the rest of that.)

[@marvlb]

It is absolutely amazing in this day and age that there was not hundreds of detailed photos taken. It’s not like they couldn’t afford film! If I had been around after the crash I would have maybe 50 photos of every part on the airplane.

[@Qrail]

I agree that the Sheriff’s office should have investigated this as a car accident. If so, then everyone could have more information. (I used to do that for a living). Photos from multiple angles, photos of the people involved, and from all 4 corners of the “intersection”. A video or photos can tell a lot. It can also prevent fraud. I would have taken photos of the “dashboard” or what you call the panel. Noting the prop was a new idea to me, and yes, if the NTSB has some policies and procedures, sign me up. Thanks, Scott for the update.

[@ddegn]

It's too bad film and processing is so expensive. Oh, wait . . .. It's crazy there weren't more photos.

[@johnb7490]

Great job

[@lockedin60]

Scott I agree the Sheriff department would not have the required skills to investigate a plane crash and some guidelines offered by the NTSB would help them collect critical data. I think any GA aviation that ends with a loss of life should be investigated by NTSB on site.

[@cheap_pilot]

53 gallons usable (if they started full) and estimated 46 gallons for the trip. 7 gallons spread unevenly across 3 tanks. Complexity with return fuel always going to the left main. Slight variation in leaning could burn more than plan. Did they have an egt? Did they have a digital fuel flow computer? My guess is fuel starvation. I have 1,000 hours in a straight 35, and another 1,000 in a 35-33.

[@Firestorm637]

I use to fly out of El Paso all the time. High winds and dust storms are fairly frequent. So many times with high winds many planes go down in the desert secondary to no fuel. Pilots become complacent as they have always been able to fly between 2 extended points with no need for fuel. Then complacency is interrupted with reality. Flying is about safety with fuel management top priority, always. Sad to hear of deaths. Those small bumps of bushes are much larger as toy approach the ground. Good point about the landing gear. Thx

[@180mph9]

Good points

[@kevincollins8014]

I always love hearing your thoughts and what can possibly be done different. My heart goes out to the family and friends. Thanks as always for putting these together Scott.

[@bartonrobinett3790]

Scott, IMO the high density altitude had a lot to do with this outcome. Too many pilots don’t really grasp the concept at the moment they’re faced with it. Low airspeed, high ground speed, very little energy remaining to raise the nose and slow the airplane down just before impact.

[@glennllewellyn7369]

Yep. Actual speed changes!

[@4everskiing]

I always like what you have to say about accidents. If other pilots are listening, they could benefit from this. I would think that there has to be more photographs covering this crash. It is very important to take photo's, and drone shots to view a possible bounce would also help. This information could help first responders with dealing with aircraft accidents.

[@longhair-dontcare9983]

Thanks, Scott, I enjoyed your take on this crash analysis. I was surprised there was no mention of how the fuselage was "pancaked" (photo @ 13:00) which tells me there was quite a bit of abrupt downward force, consistent with the damage of the main landing gear/ wing punctures. I would have liked to see the terrain behind the aircraft to prove this theory. I see a last second stall with very little forward motion prior to impact.

[@williamcunningham6945]

Thanks!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you William! I appreciate you watching!

[@engineeringconsulting5534]

Scott, I have been following your reports and videos for some time now; as I think any pilot should do, especially if they are a Bonanza pilot/aerobatic pilot. You have a mass of aeronautical knowledge. For that reason, I finally decided to subscribe. The N8743A crash has me trying to determine, as I am sure that you have, the reason for not being able to survive a forced in an what looks like an open field. My take, for what it is worth: Fuel could have possibly been an initial issue; however from the pictures that you posted, I think that the amount of structural damage sustained had to be from a clockwise spin. This would explain the nose impact rotation and the left wing damage. The wing and fuselage damage are all show a hard downward impact. If the center of rotation was over the right wing, this would explain the server damage to the left wing leading edge and the right gear pushing up through the wing. I think It would be a good effort for someone to develop a engineering/simulation software for helping determine damage such as this one. I think if it had been a misjudgements of a controlled landing that there would be more evidence of ground disturbance. Thank you for your continued support of our safety. Your videos and information are what I consider the best. Blue Skies! Faithfully, James

[@thunderbolt513]

Hi Scott. 2 years of investigation and they come up with no answers. There wasn't a post-impact fire, there wasn't any fuel spill nor fuel stains on terrain around the aircraft, they couldn't determine if the engine was producing power, and (extremely bizarre) they (NTSB) didn't even went to the accident site. I mean, how can u investigate an accident in order to produce a report if u don't even visit and analise the crash site?? Probable cause..." pilot's unhability to maintain flight control when performing (maybe) an emergency landing or a stunt, or a show of to his passengers, or whatever other reason" Sure. U figure it out, 'cause NTSB gives u the freedom to figer it out. Happy landings from Portugal.

[@LTVoyager]

When most of your accident investigations end with generic causes or “cause unknown”, it is very easy to write those reports without ever visiting the site.

[@thunderbolt513]

@@LTVoyager Even worse. When (and if) they arrive to a conclusion, the conclusion is never ex: " when you face an engine problem, loss of power on to/cob" u name it, lower your nose immediately, go for your DMMS, find a place to land and fly the damn thing to the ground. No. It's more like: "if lost of power on an engine at low altitude and speed, try to understand if it's fuel starvation, or carburant clog or gear problem or something else." They don't produce opinion and advise on how to identify these problems, but first of all AVIATE, NAVIGATE & COMMUNICATE. At low speed/altitude your options are no by the dozen.

[@LTVoyager]

@@thunderbolt513 True, the NTSB is all but useless for GA.

[@Tomc528]

waa there gas in the system

[@tenpiloto]

To prevent future accidents, I think we need to know "why it happened". Knowing just "what happened" might not be enough.

[@Parr4theCourse]

Excellent review…. NTSB not so much!

[@jackprier7727]

Great analysis-- they could have gotten fuel at Ely, a few dozen miles S on their path, rather than running-out in Butte Valley with a few more dozen miles to Elko. The Elko VOR is on the mtn right behind where I live.

[@chuckcampbell3927]

🛫📖🛬 Scott, Good to see you again. i always enjoy your uploads. Your articulate take on this accident is very professional and accurate I believe. After viewing the final resting place picture, I'm compelled to agree with you on your analysis. However, I feel led to make one comment and that is about energy management. As the accident is occurring and the energy is being dissipated the one consistent pieces of evidence that led to the fatality of the occupants is the fact that there was no harness system and only the lap belt and possibly the shoulder restraint.. The military knows this and incorporates it, but in the GA sector, they trade all of that safety of a good harness arresting system for the ease and comfort of a simple and non-invasive restraint. Speaking about energy bled off, just look at any NASCAR crash and tell me, would they consider anything but a harness system? The pictures you showed of the crash site and possible landing area, in my mind, very survivable with the right technique. Compression fatalities are different all together. In this case, Scott, was the gear folded back and went up through the wing or was the gear driven straight up through the wing. That to me is a very important question considering the last picture and no scuffing can be seen behind the aircraft on the ground. It obviously had struck the ground prior to this final resting place, I think. I saw a Navajo that lost power and stalled coming out of Las Vegas some years ago and it landed in a completely stalled attitude. The Navajo looked unbroken from above but all 10 passengers died from compression injuries. No debris field at all. Well, that's my two cents worth, so back to my coffee and it really is good to see a video from you again Scott. GOD bless📖🛐✈️🐆

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Chuck. I am also a big believer in harnesses!

[@danmccarthy2213]

I ran out of gas...calculated my fuel consumption, and was off by 3pgh because of get there itis....on a long flight its easy to do...."go to nearest" was actually very helpful on my garmin 175 in one of the few times it didn't overheat and shut off on me....

[@engineeringconsulting5534]

Scott, I just watched your "J35 Bonanza Power-On Stall/Spin" video, again. If you compare the pictures of the reckages of the two airplanes, the damage is very similar; with the exception that the J35 had more nose impact damage. The J35 probably hit at a more nose down attitude. By comparison, I am almost 100% sure that the N8743A accident was due to a stall/spin. My opinion, for what it is worth. Thank you for all of your support in keeping us aware. I am a real advocate of the thought process of using visualization to help build preventative motor skills. It is best to plan and react than to have to think and respond. Kudo's, Scott, for your efforts to help improve on the safety of our flying community. Blue Skies! Faithfully, James

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks, James. My first impression of the fate of 43A was a stall/spin. The pictures changed my mind.

[@NesconProductions]

Fantastic insight by Mr. Perdue. Aviation accidents entail many more parameters as compared to MVA's that police have much more experience & training in handling. The NTSB is chronically understaffed and doesn't have the resources to investigate every accident onsite. Only logical that NTSB investigative parameters be shared with local officials (so as to allow better collection of evidence to the cause of aviation accidents) so as to provide them best data possible for a final analysis. Could be something as simple as a step by step phone app. (first hint to Mr. Perdue 😁). Side notes. Due to present inflation and high cost of avgas could understand a tendency for pilots to refuel where is the cheapest and pushing (safety) margins to avoid stops at locations where fuel can be much more expensive. Not unlike a self imposed 'got to get there - itis' mentality regarding marginal weather concerns. Over time the requirements in aircraft instrumentation and safety equipment have increased. Valuable tools in determining accidents lacking in GA are black boxes (for gathering voice & instrument data). With modern technology building a small, light weight and robust (able to withstand a crash & post accident fire) voice data recorder that would also be inexpensive (less than $100) should not be that difficult a device to design (2nd. hint for Mr. Perdue & tech. knowledgeable friends 😉). Such would take a lot of the mystery out of GA accidents (such as in the one described here) and greatly speed investigations (see as an inevitable requirement in the future anyway.. 🤔). A pilots (& passengers) last words should/would also need to be protected (namely from TV, KZbin, etc. video's glorifying/profiting from such).

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Great observations!!

[@nicolassales8679]

In the UK the police and the air accident team carry out separate investigations. The police treat it as a crime scene and the air accident guys who always attend do their part.

[@jackprier7727]

This is way in the middle of nowhere so they just had county cops-

[@garyalgier4811]

FUEL MISMANAGEMENT in a bonanza seems to be the cause of most of the Bonanza accidents. We all know they're not good gliders and don't forget to calculate your head winds growing up at Van Nuys airport it was amazing how many people would think they can make it from Phoenix to Los Angeles 350 miles on a full tank of gas but falls short ten or Twenty Miles because of a headwind it happens all the time

[@sonoftherepublic9792]

Any resistance by the NTSB to create a First Responder Incident Protocol would likely stem from them wanting to protect their own institutional bureaucracy. Logic says utilize every resource available to train and empower as many field responders as possible. However, government and logic rarely belong in the same sentence. Perhaps this is a worthy initiative for an entity outside of government so that life saving information can be preserved and shared.

[@FasterLower]

A nice report well presented. One suggestion though, a link to the original report in the description would be helpful. Keep up the good work.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Good idea. Wish I’d thought if it! Will correct soon!

[@jackfrost3573]

I have always been puzzled by the amount of effort dedicated to airplane crashes when compared to car crashes. Each accident has a loss of life, but one gets years of attention, and the car crash gets dismissed as a common event with little effort to improve the issues.

[@jackprier7727]

very exactly true. Car crashes are a lot of "oh, well"-

[@karlscribner7436]

Not true, often times many hours are spent on scene and reviewing vehicles involved which are normally impounded and examined extensively before final decisions are made as to cause and any legal charges that may arise out of the accident. Most vehicles have event recording capability used to determine more information than you can imagine. On the other hand any aircraft event I was aware of the role local law enforcement had was tape off the scene and guard it until “the FAA” showed up later. Other than basic shots, few, if any, photos were taken and no extensive investigation of any kind was undertaken beyond victim recovery and family notification.

[@jackprier7727]

@@karlscribner7436 You can't say "not true" as a statement of certainty, then immediately also say "often times" which removes the stated absolutism. And if car crashes happen repeatedly from the same cause, then my statement is true compared to aircraft-crashes causing a huge revamping of lighting, fencing, maintenance, wiring, software--whatever it takes to prevent a similar occurrence.

[@karlscribner7436]

@@jackprier7727 So, English parsing was not my major in college. Sorry 😢 if my deficiency in communication wasn’t a gem of absolutism, must have missed that day’s lesson. Thank you for setting me straight. Funny thing you started off saying that I can’t say that, but Jack: that’s exactly what I did say. 😎 Absolutely

[@jackprier7727]

@@karlscribner7436 Good--hope you are catching on--My statement is mostly about the fact that one person, 2 people, 8 people die in a plane crash and everything changes all over the world to prevent a recurrence (in English, that means "happens again"). Yet there need be a certain number of people killed at an intersection in a certain time for a stoplight or roundabout to be installed. (Actuarial tables). The standards of mayhem for changes to auto-accidents are way above airplane-accidents, Parse that.

[@arthurfoyt6727]

I never fully understand fatal accidents on flat terrain. Sure, it's not ideal, but it's a heck of a lot better chances of walking away that putting it down in a city or in the mountains.

[@kristensorensen2219]

#2.1k👍Thanks for your presentation and thoughts on what is better for survival gear up or down. Fuel starvation is so easy to avoid it is always tragic! ERAU 80 CFIA&I ret.

[@saldun2603]

Hi Scott I am very impressed with your findings and reports regarding flight investigation. Would you be interested in another case. This happenned I believe 2+ years in Springfield Illinois. The acting Coroner and her husband former Alderman, Fire Chief and Previous Mayor perished on final Springfield Illinois along with a good passenger friend. They were flying from Florida into Alabama and final leg to the Capitol City. I haven't heard a word one on this. Can you look into this?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Do you have the date and N-Number?

[@trumpsmessage7777]

As Scott so often says. The NTSB frequently gives us nothing or just a quick summary that leaves many unanswered questions.

[@wacojones8062]

Thank you for your due diligence reporting style. My dad had to take control of a Cessna 187 in lowering cloud conditions on a hunting trip. The owner was not instrument rated and lost all situational awareness. My dad had around 2 hours stick time on the aircraft before the trip. His airman certificate was earned on the GI bill after WW II and he was tested by the top folks at the CAA as he had only one eye. He pulled out of the steep diving spin at 500 feet AGL. Too many pilots do not follow due diligence in preflight checks, calculations and checking in detail weather reports. Taking off with gust locks in place is but one example that has caused many tragedies.

[@edb7742]

"Taking off with gust locks in place" - would you please explain what this mean? Thank you

[@lapoint7603]

I think your idea of training local law enforcement in aviation crash investigation would be well received. Much like the FBI and state crime investigation agencies the NTSB's strength is mostly in their forensic investigation abilities. They have the budget for the technical laboratories, equipment & services necessary for the forensic examinations required in aircraft accident investigation. Local first responders, primarily law enforcement, have the ability to do the required on-scene investigation and interviews. Will you be developing a curriculum for accident investigation by local agencies? I'd love to attend.

[@mbryson2899]

What an oddly perfunctory report. It serms like it was given short shrift; I can't help but wonder why.

[@kenkee2011]

And with drone technology the investigators could have provided a solid overhead view of the scene.

[@bdy576]

As you talk about here, it is totally perplexing that the NTSB does not issue a standard protocol for accident investigation by law enforcement professionals. This would ensure that responders arrive on site with a clear agenda in hand, eliminating delays and confusion, and ensure that the information collected meets a minimum requirement for determining what happened and how it happened. It would be interesting (or infuriating) to hear the NTSB's reasons for not creating such a protocol.

[@robertbandusky9565]

Excellent Captain! If true, why was aircraft in 30 degree nose down condition?

[@mikemaloney5830]

There is something to be learned from accidental gear up landings on grass strips. Typically very little damage. Another fear of pilots landing dead stick is STALLING. So landing fast can be an over reaction. Getting it exactly right with no go around possibilities is a tall order..... On a rough field land slow and wings level. Keep it simple.

[@porthos9502]

We learned a lot. Namely the Government is willing to not do its job when it is convenient for them not to.

[@N8844H]

Thanks for a very sensible sanity check on what seems like a "go through the motions" evolution by NTSB. I just read the final NTSB report on the loss of my old airplane near Truckee, California (two fatals, one serious injury). Despite a lot of microscopic analysis of carb components, it was just as thin. Basically, a shrug: the airplane crashed for some reason. Who knows why? Not the NTSB. See the report here: WPR18FA198 . Though note: the attached photos are not even of the accident airplane. Go figure. Is GA really just a write-off from their perspective? If so, the endless circle of airplanes going down for many of the same few reasons will never be broken. The old Soviet worker's joke about "You pretend to pay us and we pretend to work" seems like it might apply.

[@karmic86]

Or…get this…if there is insufficient evidence to support a conclusion, they don’t draw one??

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Possibly, and if so it was because evidence wasn't collected. I enumerated a small fraction of the details that were missed that could have revealed what happened. That is the lesson learned here.

[@N8844H]

@@karmic86 When an airplane goes down at sea and is lost, there is good reason to say there's insufficient evidence to support a conclusion about why. When an aircraft goes down in the backcountry, there is good reason to consider it a mystery (until it's found, anyway). But when the aircraft is recovered and is sitting in a hangar, the only good excuse for not finding out what happened is that you're probably not looking very hard. In the case of my old airplane, the wreck was a mile or so off the end of the runway. Tower watched it go down. EMT's and fire showed up in minutes. Was the engine making power? Where were throttle, prop and mixture knobs at impact? Where was the aftermarket fuel valve set? Was their fuel in the accumulator tank on impact, or not? Was their wing damage and characteristic twist in the fuselage indicating a stall/spin evolution? I'm a pilot, not an accident investigator. But I am left wondering why NTSB spent years producing this "I dunno", and did not seem very interested in asking some, or all, of these questions.

[@karmic86]

@@N8844H so, I am a pilot, A&P, and an air safety investigator. Investigations can only use the information that’s available to them, and unless there is ample evidence to support one conclusion and exclude all others, a probable cause cannot be affixed. In 2020, field investigators were not permitted to travel, with very few exceptions. Simply shoving an aircraft into a hangar or under a tarp isn’t going to preserve all the evidence that is needed to affix a cause, especially if fuel contamination/exhaustion/starvation are at play. At first blush, it would be sensible to require LEOs to action an airplane crash checklist that gathers/protects evidence onscene, but speaking from experience, airport workers and even FAA inspectors may not be relied upon to gather that information before the aircraft is moved and that evidence is gone for good. You are welcome to speculate what you think happened in the case of this Beech, or your mishap you’ve mentioned; nothing wrong with that. But as they say, when you assume, you make an ass of u and me…

[@N8844H]

@@karmic86 My airplane went down 17 July 2018. That's pre-COVID. And some microscopic analysis of the pressure carb was done prior selling everything off to a parts boneyard. And discovered nothing. So good on them for looking that far anyway. But no attempt was made to ascertain where the fuel valve was set, whether the boost pump was on, or if, indeed, there was any fuel in the accumulator tank (fed by both mains). As an accident investigator, perhaps you can offer your view about what's left to consider, or as you might say, assume, after the NTSB left so much data simply uncollected.

[@WilliamParmley]

I must have been 10 or 12 years old when my father (a Naval aviator) explained to me that off-airport landings should be done with gear up. I don't recall how the subject came up, and I've never been in a situation where I needed it, but it has stuck with me all these years!

[@JamesWilliams-en3os]

I believe Scott has done video(s) on gear-up vs gear-down forced landings. There are significant advantages to leaving the gear up.

[@edb7742]

@@JamesWilliams-en3os That's interesting because I think the gut reaction of many is to put the gear down because they think it would be better to have the gear take the initial impact, but as you and the video pointed out, that's actually not the best.

[@frankrosenbloom]

From the photo shown at 12:55, it looks like in good visibility the area should have been conducive to a very survivable dead stick landing. Am I wrong? I am nowhere near Scott's level, just a PPL with instrument rating. However, I do practice engine outs frequently.

[@davesawchuk6584]

Where are the photos??? I would think they took more that 2 pics

[@danielmcnulty8736]

Smartest guy in the aviation KZbin space. I love this stuff.

[@geraldmartsy2165]

Dan Gryder is smarter

[@beachbum77979]

@@geraldmartsy2165 I'm not in a position to evaluate "smart" because I'm not. I have seen a few of Dan's videos and several of Scott's. Dan does seem faster to jump to conclusions. He seems to think he's smarter than anyone. I like Scott's videos better though, and I'd trust Scott to take me flying. As much as i love flying and learning about aviation, if Dan offered to take me up for free, I'd tell him thanks, but I'm waiting for Scott.

[@danielmcnulty8736]

@@geraldmartsy2165 false

[@geraldmartsy2165]

@@danielmcnulty8736 Okay, Daniel. Everybody's entitled to the wrong opinion.

[@danielmcnulty8736]

@@geraldmartsy2165 true enough. You got yours, I got mine.

[@WarblesOnALot]

G'day Scott, "Firsties !" ? Back with an actual comment after watching... ;-p Ciao !

[@WarblesOnALot]

Okay, Was the FAA No-Show resulting from the remoteness of the crash, funding cutbacks, staff shortages, or CoviD-19 related disruption of otherwise normal procedures for collecting Evidence...? Bad Fuel Management, compounded by trying to land deadstick in the Desert with the Dunlops dangling...; apparently... I can't recall if I mentioned to you that I made a bit of a pilgrimage last week, which may be found in my Videos, titled, "National Transportation Museum...; Visiting My First Aeroplane !" Quite the seriously nostalgic little reunion, to be honest. Would you have flown it, when you were 17 ? Even back then, when it was "Cutting Edge Technology" - in it's field ; most people told me I was nuts to levitate by Lawnmower power... They might have been right, too (!). Such is life, Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

The FAA and the NTSB are different agencies. The FAA sometimes participates in NTSB investigations.

[@WarblesOnALot]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Ahh, I see... I thought FAA would investigate all Aircraft Prangs, whereas the NTSB looks at any systemically significant "Transportation" Dysfunctionality (?) - from Bus and Ferry and Commercial Aircraft Prangs - even to a Gas-Plumbing issue which was blowing up Houses all over some little town which had messed up..., and because it was a Gas TRANSPORTATION problem (!), therefore the Town's Plumbing was being NTSB investigated...(!). Demarcation Disputes are weird... Have a good one... Stay safe. ;-p Ciao !

[@bricestaeheli8531]

I own N8478A an A35 and the Aux Tank is behind the back bench seat, forward of the Cargo Area... I never fly longer then 3 hours in the air in one leg, the E-185 burns about 10 gallons an hour. Front and back seats are Beach type seats with lap belts only. It is a robust airframe and it would take a lot of force to bend the airplane that much. Flaps on A35's don't do much to slow you down, and the flap extension speed is AFTER the gear speed so its common to drop the gear first to slow you down. The A35 is fast and slippery in the air. Its a good reminder that gear UP landing are an option.

[@xsleep1]

Photos, photos, photos. But, without those, what happened to the wrecked plane? Someone got hold of it. Maybe an NTSB phone call to that person could have added some evidence about the prop.

[@leeroyholloway4277]

That would require a government employee to expend effort. We can't have any of that.

[@cherylgoodwin4798]

Hi Scott. We so enjoy your videos. Are you planning to be at Osh next week? Cheryl & Terrance

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I will indeed. In the video just before this one I talked about my schedule so we can meet up. I'll be posting again about it starting Saturday. Looking forward to it!

[@fraserwatt6417]

Scott, thank you for your analysis of the crash and your cogent observations. Like I think you possibly feel, I think that the NTSB has seriously dropped the ball here. I feel that they have almost just ignored their duty and their own charter to investigate this accident properly.

[@normanmackenzie8130]

I reckon, that what you say near the end of this update, i.e. it's never a good idea to put the undercarraige down unless, you are 100% certain it will give you the landing you require. Making a belly landing with flaps down? would that have caused a survivabilty event......that's for surmise. given the terrain ..... In the end, this was not looked into in a proper fashion by the NTSB...or anyone else, but you yourself. Excellent video.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Norman. Flaps down is usually fine and does even less damage to the airplane. Flying over that sagebrush it would hard to predict how big it was, I would expect more damage in this situation with flaps. But saying that you could make a slower landing and that is the best you thing can do!

[@normanmackenzie8130]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Thanks for the replay Scott.... yeah, i am no expert flyer, but...deffo in their situation i would try my damnest to fly, as slowly as is possible, and look for the most level area possible gear retracted but, we don't really know what the problem was, which precipitated the crash. I wonder what was going on in that cockpit, just prior to the decision to land with gear down? Was the pilot an experienced flyer, was it panic....guess we'll never know.

[@bombsaway6340]

Very unfortunate. Tend to agree with you analysis, fuel starvation seems most likely. I teach my students to plan for a wheels up, flaps down off airport forced landing for just the reason you outlined.

[@JackNiles-hc8yz]

If I ran out of gas over the Goshute Valley (which is where this plane crashed) I'd be looking to put down on one of the many level, straight, graded all-weather gravel roads crisscrossing the valley floor. Probably why the gear and the flaps were deployed.

[@rustyclam238]

I agree with you 100 percent. Gear up and fly to the crash site. NTPSB failed miserably. Police should have taken many pictures. They do at a crime scene.

[@craighill2696]

If we as pilots voluntarily add video recordings from inside the cockpit behind our heads in an attempt to show the instruments and flight sequence it will help in these crash investigations. Yes we will get blamed for our mistakes but sometimes we may be exonerated as well with a goal of improving aviation safety in the future it is worth considering.

[@xfirehurican]

No apparent ground vegetation scarring, dirt/rock, etc on the leading edge of the "wrinkled" port wing?

[@johnschneider4160]

Check with Dan Gryder....HE knows!👍

[@rogerturner5504]

I personally don't think that Dan is anywhere in the same league as Scott as a presenter.

[@nancychace8619]

Thank you for sharing. Agree there should be better protocol for first responders. Doesn't seem like it would be too much to ask- at least some basics. Hope things go well- stay cool!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Going to Oshkosh, its a lot cooler there right now!

[@mykofreder1682]

The ground is a brick wall, you hit a brick wall at 30+ mph with lap belts, that is enough to kill you. The front looks crumpled some and looks like front took impact over 40 or 50, everything is attached, the wings could have buckled a bit with the front impact then the gear did quite a bit of metal bending. The rear picture is odd, no wheel marks or body scrap right up to the tail. It could have been an attempt at a too slow landing and stalled 10-20 feet above the ground nose first into the ground at a speed the front of the airplane could handle, that out the front gear, followed by a body slam which took out the rear gears. It's something the typical person does not train for because it is dangerous training, you could get the idea, I want to go in as slow as possible, attempt a landing significantly slower than you have ever done and bring out a surprise stall characteristic of the plane.

[@jackprier7727]

especially at the high altitude there.(more than 6000 feet)-

[@larrymitchell3502]

@@jackprier7727 Good point, Jack.

[@michaelwilliamsd.o.5006]

EXCELLENT!! What can we do to fix the NTSB? Their sloppy work is unacceptable and should not be tolerated. Old experienced Pilots like you and so many others should be running the NTSB.

[@flyingphobiahelp]

Wouldn’t be too hard on NTSB. Recall covid meant they couldn’t travel to accident site to do a proper investigation. I cut them slack for 2020-2021 accidents

[@milantrcka121]

@@flyingphobiahelp Covid made it more difficult but did not stop other emergency responders - fire, EMT, ambulance.

[@karmic86]

Don’t be ridiculous. Most investigators within the NTSB have thousands of flight hours on a multitude of aircraft types, and are investigating accidents caused by the often times serious errors made by “old, experienced” pilots. I suspect you believe their work is sloppy because they were unwilling to draw conclusions when there was insufficient evidence to do so.

[@Ryan8775]

@@milantrcka121 …, but NTSB are not first responders.

[@milantrcka121]

@@Ryan8775 Well, how about second responders?

[@RedArrow73]

Frank, 'Southwestward' and 'Southwesterly' are the diametric opposite of one another. Which is it?

[@michaelmartinez1345]

Hello Scott , this was an informative report , of what was NOT done by the NTSB , A-35 Bonanza back in of 4/24/ 2020, outside of Currie, Nevada. It is hard to believe, that the giant & extremely well funded , over-staffed, and under-motivated government run organization, know as the NTSB, did not even visit this crash site... The police were there, but they had few procedures / protocol to follow, on conducting a first arrival/preliminary investigation... I'm now wondering WHY this once efficient and thorough organization that has become a lackluster / inefficient organization (NTSB) has not had their budget totally cut... It is the private citizens who KNOW about aviation, who seem to be conducting much more comprehensive investigations and analysis, on their OWN budgets and resources, that what the seriously over - resourced/funded NTSB has been milking 🍼 from the assets from the tax-payers... Great Job Scott.... If only the government could get some REAL experts who actually care about aviation safety, working for some of their organizations, like the NTSB, they might be able to get some of what they should be doing- completed... Thank you for following-up on this report , that the lackluster NTSB took 27 months to basically come up with nothing, but 27 months of the taxpayers paying these people to sit in their offices and pretend to be doing their jobs...

[@USA-GreedyMenOfNoIntegrity]

Turn your landing lights on, if you don’t like what you see, turn the landing lights off. That’s if you have any battery power left, which is probably the case here. At least he kept the wings level. Boy, I wish men in the USA would learn from others mistakes and get some integrity. But, like these crashes, I don’t think that’s going to happen.