Babylon 5 Newbies react to 4x3 | The Summoning

Babylon 5 Newbies react to 4x3 | The Summoning | First Time Watching

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@richardyett3985 2 ай бұрын

I worked on Babylon 5 as a Centauri Guard on 4 episodes and also worked on other episodes as other characters in other seasons. The show did a good job with make up, effects & sets for not having a big budget like when I worked on DSN & Voyager but they did a good job nevertheless. In the scene where Londo & Vir are escorted into the room where Emperor Cartagia is waiting for them I was the guard. It was fun to work on and the show was not filmed at a major studio, but was filmed in a commercial area of the San Fernando Valley. When we went on breaks between scenes we would sometimes sit outside the stage in our costumes having conversations about random things and G'Kar (Andreas Katsulas) would smoke cigarettes and it was surreal and funny thinking about it.

@tvdroid22 2 ай бұрын

Did you get in on Orange Roughy day? Jerry Doyle had some funny stuff to say about that experience.

@richardyett3985 2 ай бұрын

@@tvdroid22 I don't remember anything about that. I do remember Jerry Doyle was always professional on set but liked to joke around. What was Orange roughy day about?

@commanderkruge 2 ай бұрын

Wow, that's pretty cool. :D I read a bunch of stuff about the show and one thing that's pointed out several times is that the working conditions on the B5 set were a LOT better than on many other shows in so far as they really managed to streamline things like appliance of makeup, resetting sets to become other rooms and planning of schedule to such a degree that there were much less overtime or "let's work through the weekend" situations than usual in that kind of show. Is that something you noticed too? As for the sets: Sometimes one can actually see a "metal wall" is just plywood painted gray in rather rough strokes, kinda like a stage set. I assume that's due to DVD having a much better picture than the old VHS copies. But even so - I don't mind things like that at all. Especially not in a show where plot and characters are like THIS. Seeing that a set is indeed "just a set" becomes completely unimportant and in reviews (when one starts to notice that stuff more) makes the whole thing even ... more charming in a way. Kinda like the "planet hell" set with it's obviously fake rocks on Star Trek TNG. :) A old friend of mine, Claudia Kern, is an author and very active in the German SciFi fandom and hangs around on sets of series a lot to then write about it for magazines and webpages and whatnot. She described meeting Katsulas on the B5 set and her description fits 100% to what you said. G'Kar in full makeup smoking. :D "I find conventions weird... (or something along those lines) *takes a deep drag on the cigarette* *Exhales* So many people there!". Apparently he liked to kinda stay in character? I met Mr Furst and Mr Doyle on a convention here in Germany, in Cologne. Stephen was SUCH a nice guy, mingled with the visitors and chatted about this and that. Jerry Doyle kept more to himself. And the bartender. (and apparently got mugged while jogging as we learned much later - it was never mentioned on the con). That was not to long after he and the actress playing Talia Winters got divorced, he was asked about it during a panel and reacted like: "Yah. Next question.". Then during an auction a picture of them was on offer - HE bought it and then tore it to pieces. It obviously was something he was feeling quite bitter about at the time.

@richardyett3985 2 ай бұрын

@@commanderkruge You described it perfectly regarding the production being efficient. I agree that plot and story or more important than the realism of the sets. If you don't have the story etc, it doesn't matter how great the sets look. I actually prefer the Original Star Trek series to the many others that came after even though I know the sets look fake sometimes. The old Sci fi shows and films had to be creative since they didn't have CGI etc.

@tvdroid22 2 ай бұрын

@@richardyett3985 The cast were talking about the set and their isolation, and things that happened (on the DVD comments) and they got around to that day when Orange Roughy was served, and things got interesting in the bowel department for several involved.

@eddiemidnite 2 ай бұрын

The guy playing the emperor did a fantastic job in bringing to life one of the most despicable villains in the series. Not a single redeeming characteristic to him, and you just want to reach out and strangle him.

@RKnights 2 ай бұрын

So true, incredible acting

@Philbert-s2c 2 ай бұрын

The "Mad King Joffrey" of his day....

@BarbaraWaskelis-bl5ug 2 ай бұрын

Unfortunately you won't see him at a convention. He gave up acting and became a lawyer in Los Angeles. True story.

@dirkvervecken4054 2 ай бұрын

@@BarbaraWaskelis-bl5ugThat's the problem with playing a villain role that well. It tends to leave you typecasted.

@thomasstroh-uu2mj 2 ай бұрын

From playing the villain to be a villain 😂

@derekramsaroup3883 2 ай бұрын

Wortham Krimmer as Emperor Cartagia ...a despicable villain ...Great performance

@ianstopher9111 2 ай бұрын

Leave no piece of the set unchewed.

@mousenomiatadpole6437 2 ай бұрын

I always dread these first four or five episodes of Season 4. My family and I started watching this show back in 1998; a relative recommended we watch it when it came to TNT. I was 17 and was getting over a personal trauma in which I almost lost my life. We started watching mid-Season 3, but when it got to these first half-dozen-ish episodes of Season 4.... G'Kar has always been my favorite. Anymore, I almost get physically sick when I see this episode. Andreas Katsulas is brilliant as G'Kar. The behind-the-scenes stories that are out there are priceless, from his smoking in full G'Kar regalia to him not signing his name for autographs (which I don't understand, but) to the 'improvisation' he and Peter Jurasik did for the elevator scene in "Convictions." And Wortham Krimmer is amazing as Cartagia. I'm not familiar with his soap opera work, but that's not the first acting role(s) I would think of when I think of him. Some commentors have said he's a lawyer now and that's true; I think it's environmental law that he practices. He goes by Robert Krimmer now. I really appreciate your videos, and I admire how it's obvious you've connected with the show, like most other fans, and you're thinking about it as you go, and what you're saying and how you're reacting is genuine and real. I look forward to the rest of the series with you!

@RKnights 2 ай бұрын

We are happy to know that you enjoy our reactions to this show. The acting and writing of this show has us captivated

@lovipoekimo176 2 ай бұрын

G'kar refusing to scream even in the face of sheer torture was established WAAAAY back in season 1 when an assassin put pain givers on him and was electrocuting him. The payoff for that was soooo satisfying to see unfold

@reverseBLT 2 ай бұрын

It had been a very, very, *very* long time since a Vorlon had died. Kosh's passing was the straw that broke the camel's back for them. Also, the Shadows weren't *scared* of Sheridan uniting the younger races. They didn't see it as a threat to *them*, just to their process of "promoting strength through conflict," so they wanted him to knock it off.

@thomasstroh-uu2mj 2 ай бұрын

That's the amazing thing about B5. The author knew the whole story before they even started to film it. So that's why there are always hints, red herings, and vision of the future etc. He eve wrote emergency storylines fo any mayor actor if something happened. That's why Sinclair was written of because he got very ill during the filming and couldn't continue.

@chaost4544 2 ай бұрын

Sheridan was like "I was dead but I got better".

@TheFalconerNZ 2 ай бұрын

IMO G'Kar's scream on the 39 whipstrike was 20% pain & 80% anger. He was strong enough that he could have remained silent & died but he knew that would be a lost opportunity to free his people so he screamed, but less for what he was enduring & more for the pain that his people endured and anger he was so helpless to end it sooner. Again, love watching your live reactions & here to help the algorithm so truck on guys. BTW - time for a few more Farscape reactions 😀

@lovipoekimo176 2 ай бұрын

Yep. He was trying to cling to his honor and pride but at the end he had to give way in order to get the chance to save his homeworld.

@seawind930 2 ай бұрын

They literally gift wrapped Garibaldi when they returned him, not to mention anyone else on that ship was killed. You would think it would trip a few warning bells in peoples minds like "Hey, maybe they did something to Michael" but nope everyone trusts him.

@philmarston9078 2 ай бұрын

Kosh maintained a control over the Vorlons that pacified them in a way. The new ambassador has a very different agenda - you could almost call it the god of war if you will. A very dangerous individual.

@GJS2183 2 ай бұрын

Season 4 is so good, so many things happen, also because JMS wasn't sure he would get a 5th season. Introducing the Vorlon Planet Destroyer...

@commanderkruge 2 ай бұрын

Yes, they squeezed as much important stuff from what was planned for season 5 originally into season 4, so there's almost no more room for filler there. EVERYTHING that happens for most of the season is something of HIGH importance in one way or the other, moving the plot forward in HUGE steps. But of course that had t be done right too - and it shows that JMS is really, really good at his job as story teller, author of the series and planner/producer. THe season could have become a mangled, rushed disaster, but instead he managed to turn it into "edge of your seat"-TV. AND while season 5 has it's problems because of what's left to be told it still is legit fine TV. It's just coming after THIS season and a little weak in comparison to it. By itself it's good. :)

@chrism7395 2 ай бұрын

Fun fact: the head on Cartagia's desk (Minister Dogari) is a cast of Andreas Katsulas' head (presumably the one they used to make his prosthetics)

@commanderkruge 2 ай бұрын

What a goosebump episode. The whipping... The Vorlon fleet... And the question: "WTF will happen NOW???" I was thinking hard, just like you guys now. And did I promise too much when I said that Carthagia would be ... special? That guy is SCARY a.f.! A true psychopath. In a position of absolute power. Which makes him EXTRA dangerous, of course. He's surrounded by enablers following every of his whims. And indeed the actor does a brilliant job portraying him. *shudder* And then: WaitWaitWAIT, the Vorlons did WHAT???? WAAAAAGH! Series four is so lit. :D PS: On a side note: "Lorien" is another of JMS'ses Lord of the Rings nods. It's the name of a forest on Middleearth, I believe the one where the fellowship meets the elves and Galadriel. Oh - and "Zh'Ha'Dum" was one as well. Gandalf fell with the Balrog at the bridge of Kha'Zad'Dum in the mines of Moria. To come back from the dead - just like Sheridan. :) (I had to wait for it to happen to point it out savely without risk of spoiling) Love you guys enjoy yourselves that much. :D

@rafetizer 2 ай бұрын

Showing all 39 whippings... this feels like a show that would be on HBO nowadays.

@lovipoekimo176 2 ай бұрын

In the Bible, Jesus was reportedly whipped 39 times as well. Interesting reference, wouldnt you agree?

@PassiveSmoking 2 ай бұрын

Regarding the Shadows and the Vorlons? One character has already said it: "You do not understand, but you will"

@SaulofTarsis 2 ай бұрын

Gotta say, wanting vengeance with the Buddha shirt is hilarious

@julienn8844 2 ай бұрын

It's even better when you read the shirt. It says and I quote "you need to let that shit go" -Buddha

@briansrandomstuff76 2 ай бұрын

22:12 Gerard, re: your “president” comment, Bruce Boxlightner (Sheridan) actually plays the president of the planetary union in a couple episodes of The Orville.

@mythosman2000 2 ай бұрын

"They have thousands of ships..." You guys are in for a Hell of a ride👍😉

@Zero_Requiem 2 ай бұрын

The tick tock thing, I thought Lorien was asking Sheridan to give in to death so he can revive him. Much like a wizard with a revive spell but no cure spell.

@walkir2662 2 ай бұрын

That Vorlon Planet destroyxer reveal was VERY well done, yes.

@biguy617 2 ай бұрын

I find it cool that one of the actors in this series is Will Robinson from Lost in Space. I think another actor is the guy who played Tron from Tron.

@richardyett3985 2 ай бұрын

Tony Dow who played Wally in "Leave it to Beaver" directed some episodes.

@campbellcooley-voiceactor 2 ай бұрын

Again, I've really enjoyed watching your Live Reactions. Your devotion to the show and your theories are incredible.

@RKnights 2 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you!

@aldopappacoda3985 2 ай бұрын

To summarize what you've learned by the time you reached this point in the series about the Shadows and Vorlons : - the Shadows are chaos, they sow dissent because they believe the most cunning/strong/adaptable species will survive, change and grow from that, until the next time they're put to the test. Their question, asked by Morden, is "what do you want ?" which means "how can we use your aspirations to make you move in a way that suits us", and so, when for example G'Kar answered to Morden he didn't knew what he wanted beyond revenge, he wasn't very interesting (revenge against a single specie is not that much useful to the shadows, unless they have nothing else to use at the time). On the other hand, the ambitions of Londo were sure to impact at least all species having borders with the Centauri Republic, so, his answer was one the Shadows could use. And they did. - the Vorlons are order, they manipulate species through figures, concepts and aspirations to unite behind collective goals. Appearing as mythological figures (or even, having *been* these figures in the past of young species) suits their purpose, because first it manufacture positive reactions to them when these disguises are used openly, and second we know that powerful myths and figures participate in the making of civilizations, cultures, traditions, and norms (order). Their question is "who are you ?" which means "what is your place in the scheme of things ?". Remember the test by Sebastian, and the only "good" answer : accepting the fact that you are important, but also can be sacrificed for the greater purpose. Being ready to die for your ideals (even if these ideals are fed to you by the Vorlons) and recognizing the individual is unimportant. Only order is important. Says the Vorlon which have evolved to the point of being able to *cut parts of their very selves* and nests them within other people. Both species realize going full throttle at each other will mean a potential global war which leaves no-one alive, and their goals are still to watch over younger species. A single specie is not very important (the Shadows even have fun helping them destroying themselves, and the Vorlons don't care if they see them as no longer worthy. Remember in Season One, when Kosh comments about the narn/centauri tension and says their hour has passed. When asked if he was talking about the Narn or the Centaury, he answers "yes" which means both). So, the disappearance of a few of the younger races is not that much important, but killing everyone as a byproduct of going at each other's throat is out. To prevent the other side from having too much influence and proving their vision correct, both Shadows and Vorlons interfere : they manipulate the younger races both to "educate" them, but also to fight in their stead. Except the Shadows embodies conflict and chaos, so, they tend to take a direct hand when things reach critical stage, or the conflicts become generalized. It's in their nature. While the Vorlons are less emotional, more calculating, and rarely act openly, at least on a large military scale. For example, the Shadows fought openly in several of the previous wars, and their presence has given rise to legends. We see no such traces of past Vorlon involvement, they prefer to remain in the background. They manipulate genes to make younger races develop telepathy because it can be used against shadow ships and tech (the Narn legends about the Shadows and the facts the Shadows killed all their telepaths...). During the last war, 1000 years ago, their intervention was both more far reaching... and subtle. They "provided" Valen and B4 so the Minbari would win against the shadows, without the Vorlons dirtying their hands, and Valen would start changes in the Minbari culture leading to a civilization more "pleasing" to the vorlons : castes, rigidity, a global governing council of only nine people for a multi-billion strong race, a sense or collective purpose (hence the "when the minbari goes mad, we all go mad" metaphor Delenn used to explain their genocidal crusade against humanity for killing their leader). The "modern" Minbari are a good example of a specie manipulated by the Vorlons : their culture is static, almost stagnant, truth is a very important concept, individuals are encouraged to see the world according to their caste or from the perspective of the Minbari as a whole, emotional restraint and self control are encouraged at every level. Which makes the Minbari (which were more agressive and less restrained 1000 years ago : Sinclair had to become Valen because as a human, they would never have accepted his guidance) a proper tool and a proper "child race" to spread the Vorlons influence : ready to go to war at any time, but being able to provide stability, diplomacy and soft power to those willing to accept them...

@ZakhadWOW 2 ай бұрын

NOt sure if JMS had a brain fart, or someone else wrote that section, but Marcus indicating the size of the ship was wayyyy off based on what we already knew about the size of the Vorlon Dreadnoughts ( the really big normal ships) they were over a kilometer long from firing arm to tail. Based on that, comparing the size of them under the Giant ship indicates it to be ~40 kilometers on just the disc.. not counting the side wings.

@tomcopple7633 2 ай бұрын

I think the vorlons and shadows in regards to the younger races would be similar to a divorced couple who are manipulative of their "kids" (like a dance mom) and abusive of the others. I think Kosh actually cared, but I think the rest of the vorlons would side with Ulkesh/Dwayne

@tvdroid22 2 ай бұрын

Delenn and Sheridan shared command of the Rangers, so it was her place to take command. Dwayne has priorities. After all, hr said to keep the mattress.

@jpiccone1 2 ай бұрын

The music when they first see the Vorlon battle fleet is a minor key version of the music played when Kosh (the nice one) was leaving Lyta's body the first time we saw that.

@stuartriddell2461 2 ай бұрын

I love watching you guys go nuts with speculation. It's so entertaining.🙃

@А.Ободшин 2 ай бұрын

The Vorlon ship sang a ‘song of destruction’.

@geoffharper8650 2 ай бұрын

The Vorlon planet-killer is a beast of a ship , the regular Vorlon ships look like gnats next to it .

@neilbiggs1353 2 ай бұрын

Wortham Krimer as Cartagia reminded me a lot of John Hurt as Caligula in 'I, Cladius' a very good(if somewhat stagey) BBC show about the Roman Emporers after Augustus. He was equally unhinged, it might be a show that you could enjoy if you like Roman history. The highs and lows in this episode are something else aren't they?...

@Philbert-s2c 2 ай бұрын

"This guy had better die a horrible, gruesome death..." While he's not George R.R. Martin, or even Joss Whedon... trust in JMS.

@lovipoekimo176 2 ай бұрын

In hindsight, I wish Carthagia's death was at least half as gruesome (or at least the mental image of it) as Refa's being mutilated by multiple VERY angry Narn. Nevertheless, Im just elated with what's coming to him

@dbell1016 2 ай бұрын

Thanks!

@RKnights 2 ай бұрын

You bet!

@catfox7854 2 ай бұрын

Shadows have contingency for everything. Even beyond their defeat.

@LawrenceSeetoh 2 ай бұрын

thank you for the reaction. there is more to come. have fun with it

@Lion-D.-Garp 2 ай бұрын

One of the most f*cking legen... wait for it... dary.. episodes of the whole series!!! ... and one of the most legenadry reactions of you guys ^^

@commanderkruge 2 ай бұрын

Oh, absolutely. And yass - I remember biting my nails a LOT when watching the series originally. And this episode is one of the really good ones.

@toddkes5890 2 ай бұрын

12:07 - you may not like him, but Dwayne actually has a good question

@ciaranirvine 2 ай бұрын

30 years later and Cartagia is still one of the best TV/movie villains ever

@sergioaccioly5219 2 ай бұрын

You guys don't know it, but you made a very accurate prediction in this video.

@gallendugall8913 2 ай бұрын

I know how to say push the like button in Minbari. "Push the like button in Minbari."

@ianstopher9111 2 ай бұрын

That was a crazy day, watching 4x03-06. The avalanche started....

@RKnights 2 ай бұрын

So much fun

@stuartwald2395 2 ай бұрын

Keep track of the costumes and punishments that are applied to G'kar in this episode and going forward; you might see a pattern and a JMS hidden message.

@sword4005 2 ай бұрын

interesting because this episode make you reexamine the vorlons, think about the thing they done with fresh eyes, they visited thousands of worlds, appeared to the younger races as divine beings, tampered with younger races DNA to guarantee telepaths would be born in large numbers to become soldiers in their wars, convinced the younger worlds to side with them over the shadows, they seemed so wise, but that only because valan aka Jeffrey Sinclair had given them information about the future, and they only used that information to their advantage they could have stopped earth-minbari war but they didn't, in the end they are the same as the shadows just with a different ideology, two sides of the same coin

@alphanerdgames9417 2 ай бұрын

B5 yes!

@А.Ободшин 2 ай бұрын

28:30 It's not the Vorlons' fault. It's a stuck pattern of behaviour. They used a sledgehammer instead of a scalpel.

@janak132 2 ай бұрын

Think about what the Vorlons have been trying to achieve; order, and what the shadows try to achieve; survival of the fittest, now apply that to their tactics. The Vorlons trying to get all the younger species to fall in line. The Shadows are trying to get all the younger species to fight each other. That's why neither force usually engage each other or commit major forces. They've both been trying to engineer what they're trying to achieve. Now the Vorlons seems to be changing the game. The way the new Vorlon ambassador is acting.. and now they've destroyed a planet? What would this signify? Also, by the by, do you remember how many lashes Christ received? Also, did someone receive silver for turning G'kar in? Is G'kar being asked to make a major sacrifice? At the time this ran, the press was filled with comments on how much this show has borrowed from the Bible.

@rizon72 2 ай бұрын

The Shadows and Vorlons are like real life. Neither are evil, nor are they good. Now the question is how do you stop this war of giants when you're in the middle?

@ZakhadWOW 2 ай бұрын

Even the normally noble USA [in the eyes of many in the world, especially after making a critical difference in both world wars], over the last century showed taht it could be intensely evil when it suited their purposes of establishing and maintaining dominance. THere really isnt any such thing as "good" ini such areas.. just benevolent and despotic as standard means, or malevolent and murderous at worst [see Vladimir Putin now]

@whome1629 2 ай бұрын

The vorlons said you wanna play like that ok say hello to my planet killer. They intended to leave no shadow or there supporters around, you already know the consequences.

@ZakhadWOW 2 ай бұрын

as Ulkesh said, "He has opened an unexpected door. We do now what must be done now." - referring to wiping out all the Shadow influence while they were weakened and recovering form the shock of losing such a huge part of their entire command and control structure in the nuking.

@whome1629 2 ай бұрын

Finish the kiss, Denied 😂.

@NZBigfoot 2 ай бұрын

One thing people kind of miss in this episode is Loriens tiny, short, reaction to news of the Planet Killers... you've got a guy whos the oldest being in the Milky-way, he's seen it all... but hearing the Vorlons are destroying planets makes him suddenly and literally sit up, open mouthed... Thing to remember about Kosh is he was an Ambassador, he spent alot of time around 'inferior' beings he went, even just a little but 'native', 99.9% of the Vorlon species havent. So yeah, thats when you know its just gotten next level. thing is, as they say in this episode... Koshs death rattled the Vorlons, and given they and the Shadows have been in this stalemate of a feud for millions of years it just took a couple of things to make them think.. sod this, time to deal with this problem personally.

@А.Ободшин 2 ай бұрын

@NZBigfoot "reaction to news of the Planet Killers" I guess in past conflicts involving the Shadows, it didn't come to the point of planetary mayhem. The chess match between Vorlon and Za'ha'dum turns into a boxing match or MMA.

@RetroRobotRadio 2 ай бұрын

In D&D terms Shadows are Chaotic Neutral, Vorlons are Lawful Neutral.

@rizon72 2 ай бұрын

The only thing about season 4, is I would put the last episode of this season, at the end of season 5. For me its the best ending for the show. So if you haven't watched it, you might consider it.