Bach - Sonata no. 5 in C major BWV 529 - Koopman | Netherlands Bach Society

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Netherlands Bach Society

Netherlands Bach Society

Күн бұрын

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@bach
@bach 2 жыл бұрын
0:07 Allegro 5:07 Largo 10:26 Allegro
@lacrimis_solis
@lacrimis_solis 2 жыл бұрын
This is what I'm going to listen to during my math final, thanks!
@MiScusi69
@MiScusi69 2 жыл бұрын
@@lacrimis_solis Good luck!
@luchoazulreyes6082
@luchoazulreyes6082 2 жыл бұрын
Gracias por Compartir esta Hermosa interpretación. Bendiciones
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
Finally, the Netherlands Bach Society posts the fifth organ sonata by Bach! Nowadays, Thursday has become a long awaited event and one of the highlights of the week. I wait for each Thursday with anticipation. Thank you NBS for your free gift to the world. If this cost something or wasn't on KZbin, I'd be missing out on such prize recordings. I would, in fact, very probably not even love music as much. With their beautiful work, the Nederlandse Bachvereniging is showing the world Bach in a way that we've never seen before! Thank you 10000 times! God bless you! ❤️
@crossiqu
@crossiqu 2 жыл бұрын
Ton Koopman is my very favourite organist ever, playing Bach. IMHO, he has taken the baroque embellishments (trills, mordents and appoggiaturas) and phrasing on the organ, to another level
@voraciousreader3341
@voraciousreader3341 2 жыл бұрын
Koopman is a legend. But an even greater legend, whose accomplishments in preserving Bach’s organ works in 3 separate, EPIC recordings of the complete works on the most important organs in the world, has raised the level of Bach organ scholarship and musicianship to the heights we now know and take for granted, is Marie-Claire Alain. Her massive achievement is largely overlooked bc she’s a woman, but, to my ears, the beauty, elegance, and intelligence of her playing is the Mount Everest all other future organists must try to emulate. _ And SHE PLAYED FROM MEMORY!!!_
@crossiqu
@crossiqu 2 жыл бұрын
@@voraciousreader3341 Thank you for your opinion and recomendation but, everyone to his own taste ;-) I've did some comparative for several Bach organ works, and Koopman for me is the winner (just for my ears and my heart) between Walcha, Richter, Jacobs, Bohme, Preston, Doesselaar, Alain, Stockmeir, Fagius, Asma, etc. When i hear to an organ work i'm not aware of the gender or nationality of the organist. I had already heard several interpretations of Marie Claire Alain (which seriously, I'm sorry, I find out now that she is a woman) and I honestly consider her two levels below Koopman when it comes to baroque organ performance. (I insist on the recommendation to attend to the phrasing of the embellishments) It may also be that the organ or the sound engineer has an influence, but only a little. Koopman also have done the complete works.
@philipaggesen
@philipaggesen 2 жыл бұрын
Ton Koopman is a living legend and as an organist I have heard recordings by him both as an organist and choirmaster. He is brilliant and bonus info: he is coming to Copenhagen this summer!
@Vindebyvej
@Vindebyvej 2 жыл бұрын
Nevertheless, his tempo is often too high, here too
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
Leo or Ton?
@philipaggesen
@philipaggesen 2 жыл бұрын
@@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 Difficult but I think Leo if I really have to choose!
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
@@declamatory As for myself, it's Leo for sure
@ruperttmls7985
@ruperttmls7985 2 жыл бұрын
Que afortunado, las pocas veces que Koopman vino a mi país (Mexico) no pude ir a escucharlo, algo que lamento mucho. Pero pues tengo muchas de sus grabaciones y me encantan.
@Contextcatcher
@Contextcatcher 2 жыл бұрын
Ton Koopman is in the Netherlands the main centre of exploring the genius of Bach. His many recordings, his knowledge, his teaching etc. A true master, we owe him a lot.
@moatd1
@moatd1 2 жыл бұрын
77, the perfect man for a well known battery commercial;) i think i do own all his organ recordings, raised up with passion music directed by him, set my standard for appreciating/starting point for listening to other Bach performers. Good health and blessings to Sir Koopman, great example in hard working and producing high quality
@johnlong8037
@johnlong8037 11 ай бұрын
THAT OLD MAN IS IMPRESSIVE... GOD BLESS ALL YOU FOLKS INVOLVED IN THIS VIDEO..
@liebigbeute
@liebigbeute 2 жыл бұрын
I've waited for this since it was in the background of one of the videos😅 Thank you so much for the great recording!
@beethov3n
@beethov3n 2 жыл бұрын
Probably the best channel of KZbin!
@gr979
@gr979 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. This was amazing. You can feel Bachs music soar with joy when played well. Thank you for sharing all of Bachs incredible music in such a great way with so many great artists young and old. A much needed gift to our world
@lenanielsen5903
@lenanielsen5903 2 жыл бұрын
Absolutely wonderfully played🍃thank you
@MitchBoucherComposer
@MitchBoucherComposer 2 жыл бұрын
Bravo, Ton! Your playing is crisp and excellent as ever. Thank you to Ton and the NBS! I'd give anything, Ton, to hear you perform the remaining few works from Volume II with the Weingarten organ here at Naumburg! I treasure that album greatly. Thanks all for your hard work!
@nikilitha_za
@nikilitha_za 2 жыл бұрын
Wow! Beautiful music
@gaborkovacs
@gaborkovacs 2 жыл бұрын
beautiful performance - wish they had more mics and put them closer to the pipes
@peteacher52
@peteacher52 2 жыл бұрын
Bravo! Meister. You only get better with age, like a fine wine. May you live long and prosper as did the late Francis Jackson, whom you no doubt numbered amongst your friends.
@raulreyesortiz1732
@raulreyesortiz1732 2 жыл бұрын
Endlich ist der Meister wieder da! Sehr schön!
@willonthebus853
@willonthebus853 2 жыл бұрын
Been listening to the Helmut Walcha organ works a lot lately, so this is coming at the perfect time for me. Love the registration of this Organ!
@franslooy3151
@franslooy3151 2 жыл бұрын
Mooie handen en vingers als kleine hamertjes👏 Prachtig spel, in de opname is het pedaalwerk transparant en heerlijk om te horen!
@jean-marieagier6782
@jean-marieagier6782 2 жыл бұрын
Merci cher Ton Koopman... ❤
@BMWR1250GS
@BMWR1250GS 2 жыл бұрын
Esecuzione magistrale,organo fantastico, acustica eccellente.💯
@douglasdickerson5184
@douglasdickerson5184 2 жыл бұрын
Amazing as always. 💙💙💙
@cellistry
@cellistry 2 жыл бұрын
Genius - both the musician and the composer.
@rafaelriberallopis5700
@rafaelriberallopis5700 2 жыл бұрын
Extraordinaria interpretación. Gracias...
@kevinb2960
@kevinb2960 2 жыл бұрын
Magnifique comme d'habitude !
@НатальяЧеркасова-г8ъ
@НатальяЧеркасова-г8ъ 10 ай бұрын
Слышала записи исполнения этого органиста. Но увидела впервые. Увидеть орган - тоже интересно, каждый орган уникален.
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
Ah, naturally no words about the Hildebrandt organ in Naumburg!
@Ennah08
@Ennah08 2 жыл бұрын
You didn't bother to click "show more"? :D You must be new on 'All of Bach'! Of course they give lots of information on the organ ...
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ennah08 Sorry, I mean that I have no words about this masterpiece by Hildebrandt.
@Ennah08
@Ennah08 2 жыл бұрын
@@andanteconmoto. Oh, I'm sorry!! I misunderstood your comment, I took it for a complaint.
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
@@Ennah08 Absolutely not. All of Bach is a sort of miracle! Greetings from Turin!
@Ennah08
@Ennah08 2 жыл бұрын
@@andanteconmoto. Greetings from Copenhagen!
@rafikbaladi6555
@rafikbaladi6555 7 ай бұрын
Simply ravishing. What power, what elegance, what flame! Thank you
@robhendriks995
@robhendriks995 2 жыл бұрын
🎶🎶Briljant en met ongekend grote virtuositeit uitgevoerd sublieme registratie op een onwaarschijnlijk mooi instrument! Hulde aan Ton koopman en alle medewerkers van het All of Bach project🙏
@anthonyaveray1324
@anthonyaveray1324 6 ай бұрын
Brilliant and uplifting. And to see the work that goes into performing these piece; priceless.
@robcamfield
@robcamfield Жыл бұрын
profoundly superb performance - thankyou!
@tcparker1000
@tcparker1000 Жыл бұрын
An amazing piece, and an amazing performer.
@hanschouten335
@hanschouten335 2 жыл бұрын
Prachtige heldere uitvoering!
@ffbossy
@ffbossy 2 жыл бұрын
🤗Grandioze uitvoering 👍🏼
@1685kawosz
@1685kawosz 2 жыл бұрын
Ton Koopman is een Groot Man, een uitzonderlijke muzikant en een uitmuntende vertolker van Bach-muziek. Ik wens hem veel Onze Lieve Heer's Zegen, veel gezondheid en veel kracht om door te gaan met spelen, opnemen en presenteren van zijn waardevolle vertolkingen. Ik groet u van harte. A. Maciejewski
@jacobusbinnema3096
@jacobusbinnema3096 2 жыл бұрын
Mooi om Ton Koopman in actie te zien.
@timmy9796
@timmy9796 2 жыл бұрын
oh my goodness ive been waiting for this for so long
@ColinHarvey78
@ColinHarvey78 4 ай бұрын
The tempo is more moderate than we would expect from Ton Koopman.. but it still sounds like he’s in a hurry (maybe to catch a train or something). Why is that? Is he slightly robbing longer notes or parts of the beat? I guess, depending on what you think, it either comes across as energetic or uneasy.
@Reino_X
@Reino_X 2 жыл бұрын
I have totally forgot about this piece, it's superb!
@papettipapetti3550
@papettipapetti3550 2 жыл бұрын
Celestial……..
@BKZTomsk
@BKZTomsk 2 жыл бұрын
According to Mr. Kooppman's watch, he played the first movement at least 20 minutes))))))
@hansdaudey7813
@hansdaudey7813 2 жыл бұрын
time flies when ton plays
@karlheinzivanessamov1230
@karlheinzivanessamov1230 2 жыл бұрын
Bravo .Mr.
@andreamundt
@andreamundt 2 жыл бұрын
This feels like the most beautiful waterfall I have ever been washed down ! *:D*
@G4GJL
@G4GJL 2 жыл бұрын
Breath-taking pace and perfect. Thank you Ton and NBS
@mohammedfrancis
@mohammedfrancis 2 жыл бұрын
I loved it. Uplifting and reminiscent. Thank you.
@Remi-B-Goode
@Remi-B-Goode 2 жыл бұрын
I saw him in St Jacques in Liège a few years ago, it was awesome !
@aksuli1
@aksuli1 2 жыл бұрын
Wow. Great.
@marcmourier7813
@marcmourier7813 Жыл бұрын
Ton, you are the best musician on keyboards for baroque music in our current world. You are a blessing to our musical humanity.
@jsb7975
@jsb7975 2 жыл бұрын
Koopman's impeccable timing went into rush-hour....
@davideschiavone9827
@davideschiavone9827 2 жыл бұрын
Koopman non correre e' allegro non e' presto, che insalata di suoni sebbene i registri siano molto belli. Più che cogliere gioia sembra una bouffe' delirante, un'agitazione psico - motoria.
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
Bach, the greatest. Koopman, inimitable!
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
Leo or Ton?
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
@@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 Leo? I don't know him...
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
@@andanteconmoto. Really? KZbin won't let me post a link but just type "Leo van Doeselaar" into the search and click on any one. They're all great. Leo is my favorite! He also recorded Sweelinck and César Franck.
@andanteconmoto.
@andanteconmoto. 2 жыл бұрын
@@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 Oh, sure, Leo van Doeselaar!!! I agree, he is a magnificent musician. I think that the personality of Ton Koopman is unique in the performing practice history of the last 40 years.
@ruperttmls7985
@ruperttmls7985 2 жыл бұрын
@@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 Leo van D. or Leo..nhardt?
@alfredoa.potthoff6709
@alfredoa.potthoff6709 2 жыл бұрын
vielen Dank Mr. Koopman
@govindapriyadasi286
@govindapriyadasi286 Жыл бұрын
i think for this acoustics the tempo is slightly too fast. nonetheless, it's a brilliant sonata.
@Booogieman
@Booogieman 6 ай бұрын
It's maybe the best music in the world
@jsb7975
@jsb7975 Жыл бұрын
To be honest it would have been beneficial to hear the sound of the organ from closer by. Especially when played in this tempo ! It would be even more attractive, hence the actual observation of the Keys with that old fingering Koopman uses !!
@anthonyaveray1324
@anthonyaveray1324 8 ай бұрын
How can I listen without tears in my eyes? Such glorious music and so demanding of the performer too: These settings provide exact reproductions of what Bach himself heard, adding further to their glory.
@notaire2
@notaire2 2 жыл бұрын
Wunderschöne Aufführung dieser fein komponierten Sonate in verschiedenen Tempi mit durchsichtigen doch warmherzigen Tönen der ausgezeichneten historischen Orgel und mit perfekt kontrollierter Dynamik. Der zweite Satz klingt besonders schön und echt tiefempfunden. Im Kontrast klingt der dritte Satz echt lebhaft und auch inspirierend. Wahrlich intelligenter und unvergleichlicher Organist!
@MarceloMartinsIllustrator
@MarceloMartinsIllustrator 2 жыл бұрын
Tinha 14 anos. Acabara de perder meu pai. Estava prestes a compreender sozinho como ler uma partitura no piano da minha escola com livros da biblioteca. A dona do piano, e filha da diretora dessa escola ( que era má ) proibiu que eu utilizasse o piano. Nunca mais pude estudar partituras, e me ressinto até hoje disso.
@delrenatoaltoe
@delrenatoaltoe 2 жыл бұрын
Fiquei triste lendo isso.
@fredsollie4858
@fredsollie4858 2 жыл бұрын
Er wordt geweldig gemusiceerd maar het spel doet me ook denken aan Olympische Orgelspelen... Wat een haast! Snel spelen moet niet verworden tot onrustig spel.
@bertvaneck3716
@bertvaneck3716 6 ай бұрын
Kan alleen maar zeggen: Top!
@carmaraden3374
@carmaraden3374 2 жыл бұрын
. : )) *DANKE SCHÖH & CHEERS* . *LG aus Hamburg GERMANY*
@rocketsroar1
@rocketsroar1 2 жыл бұрын
Bach hits the ground running and even so manages to speed up!
@voraciousreader3341
@voraciousreader3341 2 жыл бұрын
Ton Koopman is a legend, but I wish an even _greater_ legend had lived to participate in this massive project, especially bc she recorded the complete organ work’s of Bach _3 TIMES!!!_ True musicians will know that I’m talking about Marie-Claire Alain, _THE organ master of the 20th Century and beyond!!_ Her recordings of these sonatas are epic!
@zachy7
@zachy7 2 жыл бұрын
I agree! Her renditions are alittle more clear in technique compared to Koopman, and are very inspiring as well.
@florin11bv
@florin11bv Жыл бұрын
There is nothing in common in the binom MC Alain-Koopman, only the fact they are organist. I find the style of MCA extremely dry, unispired, too far of the ideal stylus fantasticus so well mastered by K. Michel Chapuis was much better than Alain.
@dpol123
@dpol123 Жыл бұрын
Bach work on the organ seems like the voices of lost souls trying to find their way.
@emilalbazi8691
@emilalbazi8691 2 жыл бұрын
Brilliantly mastered Mr koopman
@cincinat18
@cincinat18 2 жыл бұрын
Old, wise Koopman. And : hundreds of years - nobody invented page turning device.
@horacefrancou9802
@horacefrancou9802 2 жыл бұрын
Great musician !
@robertbairdmusic
@robertbairdmusic 2 жыл бұрын
Beautiful!
@thinkbaroque
@thinkbaroque 2 жыл бұрын
Spectacular!
@paulcapaccio9905
@paulcapaccio9905 2 жыл бұрын
I studied piano at Juilliard years ago. I have one word ! BRAVO
@marekgrajner8022
@marekgrajner8022 5 ай бұрын
Zegarek też gra, czas się kurczy.
@WiWaGe-k6j
@WiWaGe-k6j 3 ай бұрын
is there a train waiting?
@madavi6321
@madavi6321 2 жыл бұрын
ایزدا،چطور یه انسان میتونه همچنین چیزی خلق کنه!؟✨
@litoboy5
@litoboy5 2 жыл бұрын
great
@edelahaye
@edelahaye 2 жыл бұрын
10:28 : Mouse house ! Hello Jerry !
@interunicograndeamore2783
@interunicograndeamore2783 2 жыл бұрын
🤩🤩🤩🤩
@irakli667
@irakli667 2 жыл бұрын
12:47
@irakli667
@irakli667 2 жыл бұрын
3:44
@brandongoecks1269
@brandongoecks1269 2 жыл бұрын
Wow 👏😎
@paradiddleday
@paradiddleday 2 жыл бұрын
If you like it at this tempo but without the mush, go here (Marie-Claire Alain): kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZzcgHaNbZdkl6s
@herrickinman9303
@herrickinman9303 2 жыл бұрын
Yeah, too much reverb in this venue.
@edelahaye
@edelahaye 2 жыл бұрын
Maybe it's because it's played a little fast, but in such a resonant place, it makes the sound muddled and there are more enharmonies than expected... I suggest recording in a concert hall rather than in a church...
@berndschlothauer7067
@berndschlothauer7067 3 ай бұрын
Sonata Nr.5 in Corona major, WHO Verzeichnis Nr???
@carlomoerdijk
@carlomoerdijk 2 жыл бұрын
Schitterend!
@franksteiner1275
@franksteiner1275 2 жыл бұрын
Too massive registration to my taste. voices are blurring. This is delicate chamber music. Check out on KZbin Daniel Chorzempa for the true beauty of the piece, recorded in 1972 but still the reference for the trio sonatas: J.S. Bach: Sonata No. 5 in C major, BWV 529 - 1. Allegro - All sonatas: J. S. Bach “Trio Sonata No. 1-6, BWV 525-530” (Daniel Chorzempa).
@mokemohaveer1
@mokemohaveer1 2 жыл бұрын
I don't know if it's the sound production or Koopman, the old sod - God bless him- but the voices (in the two outer movements esp.) could hardly be less aligned; the music is uncommonly out of time.
@pollatadeina
@pollatadeina 2 жыл бұрын
As he said of this organ in his commentary video, the articulation of the voices may be difficult to hear and therefore seeing the player can help (this is as I remember, not his exact words). It's a commentary well worth watching, for the history of the organ, i.a. But I agree with you somewhat. I kept comparing in my mind the John Butt recording, where the tempo is joyous and true and the voices singing and clear.
@nunocarmona
@nunocarmona 2 жыл бұрын
Koopman is my favorite baroque organist but, here, I think the acoustics of the place require a slower tempo on the first and last movement. The reverberation of the church muffles the faster notes and the interpretation looses clarity. This same performance would sound much better on a "dryer" acoustic environment.
@John76567-j
@John76567-j 2 жыл бұрын
En Bach zegt Amen
@runninggreenhorn9185
@runninggreenhorn9185 2 жыл бұрын
Published June 2022. Seems, that Bachs Work survives the Great Lie. Encouraging.
@Akab6
@Akab6 2 жыл бұрын
Am I the only person who doesn’t rate Koopman?
@WinrichNaujoks
@WinrichNaujoks 2 жыл бұрын
You are not alone.
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055
@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 2 жыл бұрын
What do you mean?
@ZL54JK8
@ZL54JK8 Жыл бұрын
No, you're not!
@Akab6
@Akab6 Жыл бұрын
@@johanngottliebgoldberg1055 I don't know - like I don't think he's bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't get why he's so beloved... these Bach organ recordings for the NBS are, honestly, sloppy. Yes, he's in his late 70s, and that plays a bit into it, but even his earlier Bach organ recordings aren't -that- fantastic, at least not to the degree for the praise he receives. But, I can only judge him on the his Bach organ recordings, not his other pursuits, for which I admittedly have zero familiarity.
@simf7563
@simf7563 2 жыл бұрын
Although Koopman is virtuosic, no question, I think he could have played it better in that room. The accoustic of the church is quite large, so that I would try to adapt more. In the first movement he is a bit sloppy and not always synchron. It may be the recording. The manual of the first voice sounds clear and near, pedal and second voice are pretty far. I don't enjoy listening to it, it's hard to recognize the lines an their beauty. They don't really fit together.
@martinvanheusden9832
@martinvanheusden9832 2 жыл бұрын
In elkaar vervloeiende muziek in een overmatige akoestiek horen wij hier - is hier eigenlijk wel KLANKREGIE toegepast? - dan een helder muziekexposé. Zonde van tijd, geld en moeite. Bah! En wat een beledigintg voor Koopman.
@GUMMETJE20045
@GUMMETJE20045 2 жыл бұрын
Ieder zijn smaak.;))
@boter9
@boter9 2 жыл бұрын
Prachtig stuk, geweldige musicus. Maar door het te hoge tempo is het te gehaast, rommelig en onduidelijk (deel 1).
@Orgelix
@Orgelix 2 жыл бұрын
@@boter9 it's the churches 'bad' acoustic. He'd better played a bit slower. I listened to other recordings and there was the same problem. St. Wenzel has no "regular" vaults.
@haisheauspforte1632
@haisheauspforte1632 2 жыл бұрын
@@Orgelix yep, the church is kind of irregularity shaped. Bit roundish, but not really. Like a mushroom
@zonalaboratory
@zonalaboratory Жыл бұрын
Орган - 5+ Зал - 5+ Тон Копман - 2! Ну разве можно так сумбурно и рубато всё играть??? Темп теряется, ноты пропадают, не проигрываются (проглатываются). Конечно с темпом у многих органистов проблемы. Но Тон Копман превзошёл всех. Нельзя так!!!! Если не хочешь играть - иди на пенсию!!!!! Очень жаль! НАЙДИТЕ НОРМАЛЬНОГО ОРГАНИСТА!!!!!
@heschernp
@heschernp Жыл бұрын
Temp is way too fast for the accoustics in the room. It sounds as if we're going to the races!
@kereldeman2989
@kereldeman2989 2 жыл бұрын
Hors catégorie.
@hjvdmeulen1
@hjvdmeulen1 2 жыл бұрын
Jammer eerste deel veel te snel, het stuk komt hierdoor zeker niet tot z'n recht, afraffelen is een woord wat hier op z'n plaats is. Zeer jammer, temeer omdat Ton een zo goede musicus is!
@benedictmakhes2830
@benedictmakhes2830 2 жыл бұрын
Afraffelen? Hij raakt letterlijk elke noot die er geschreven staat. Het eerste deel is snel maar zeker niet slordig of gehaast.
@bobh5087
@bobh5087 2 жыл бұрын
As always, Koopman rushes through Bach like his hair is on fire - creating an insulting, hysterical SONIC BLUR. Infuriating ! One minute of listening to this musical/artistic CATASTROPHE was one minute too much. 👎
@jerlatti
@jerlatti 2 жыл бұрын
This is what true musicality sounds like. If you’re looking for dry interpretations look elsewhere. Ton never disappoints.
@andrewhj5511
@andrewhj5511 2 жыл бұрын
@@jerlatti I'm afraid I agree with Bob H. The outer movements are just too rushed for clarity. It would have been so much better for them to have been a bit steadier, allowing space for expression and breathing!
@ZL54JK8
@ZL54JK8 Жыл бұрын
@@jerlatti Oh dear! It looks like I've been missing out on true musicality all my life. However, I do completely agree with Bob and Andrew here.
@johnlong8037
@johnlong8037 Жыл бұрын
WONDERFUL.
@irakli667
@irakli667 2 жыл бұрын
3:32
@irakli667
@irakli667 2 жыл бұрын
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