Bachmann/Liliput Swiss B3/4 Locomotive | Unboxing & Review

[@marktownend8065]

Swiss railways commenced electrification before 1920 after WW1 coal shortages. The entire network had been wired by 1960 so there was a long changeover period and the electrical hazard signs are probably appropriate. Railways hung on to small numbers of steam locos for a while for hauling engineering traffic, for rescue during power outages and particulalry shunting engines for servicing the industrial sidings that were not typically wired. Eventually, diesels took over those roles. Some of the smaller local railways still keep one or more of their historic steam locos active and available for excursion and charter operations. Hiring a steam train seems to a be popular thing for weddings and other celebrations in Switzerland.

[@alanprice2972]

ß

[@randytaylor1258]

Nicely done!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much for sharing Mark - so it's just a case of things happening very differently on the Swiss railways than over here in the UK when electrification was quite late - interesting stuff! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@davidbugler4597]

19.28 These locos are designed to run routinely in reverse as well as forwards, like a tank loco -- hence the big running lights on the back of the tender. The tarpaulin on the tender is not to cover the coal, but to clip to the back of the cab roof when running in reverse. This protects the crew when operating in rain and snow, which in Switzerland are not exactly rare in day-to-day working. The hoop provides crew visibility over the tender without having to lean out of the cab. Thanks as always for the thorough and honest review.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing David, duly noted - all makes sense! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@lukebarber9511]

Note: The Swiss method of classifying locomotives is powered axles/total axles, so that loco (a 2-6-0) is classified as a 3/4 while a 2-6-2 or 4-6-0 would be a 3/5, and so on.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for that Luke - appreciate this info! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@dbrhall]

Dear Sam, as always, keep well. First of all, some history: Liliput was founded in Austria by Walter Büchel (going back to 1947) then company sold to Herpa (cars...planes...) And then bought by Bachmann more than 25 years ago. In Liliput you could find back in the day as per ref. no. 10750 an old SBB locomotive similar to this one, although this one is brand new Bachmann making. Bachmann has many qualities and differences in each of their brands, from the American ones to the branch line one to the German one (the one you bought), however, many innovations from Liliput were introduced in models such as the Class 37 third axle among others (I am refering to the first batch of Branch Line ones that not all 6 axles were driven, if you check, the two middle axles (no's 3 and 4) have the exact same suspension that the B 3/4 reviewed. Such innovation (sprung non-driven axle) was introduced by Liliput circa 1982 in their BR18) Going back to the 3/4 (as you mentioned, Mogul), it's one of the most classical Swiss locomotives (refering to steam) that you could find, although, I would suggest that you also get acquainted with the SBB-CFF-FFS C 5/6 Elephant 🐘 either in coal or oil configuration (Öl) and, although manufactured from Roco many years ago, I might suggest Trix 22925 or Trix 22926. Best regards, D.

[@drecksaukerl]

Well done on the brief history. Some of the old Liliput items made in Austria were truly ground breaking and ahead of their time. As early as the 1970's, they made models of German prototypes with tender drive that showed prototypical frame detail under the loco. I have some of their passenger cars from the 80s that are more detailed than new stuff from Piko or Marklin.

[@dbrhall]

@@drecksaukerl Hi! Thank you for your comment. If we go back to Liliput's history, the later years were magnificent in quality, although I will never really understand the locomotive mechanism choice with the worms and loktenderkupplungs. I think we can draw a line from the 1982-1984 period to the selling of the company. During that "last decade" of sorts we would find the latest Meistermodel's like the S3/6 (1800-1802-1804) the Bayern 3/6 (4000-4002-4005), the Br42, Br52, Br10 (106) Br45 and Br05(10501-2-3-4-5-22), I mean, the 1984's catalogue locomotive was impressive. By then, If you remember, we would see the old P8 (still locomotive driven) been phased out of production (102-104-107) and the slow introduction of the white box rebranding (from circa 1985) and the introduction of the new coach series that would come with individual seatings, such as the Kpev 811/812/813, the Bayern/DRG/DB 846/847/848 plus the new 853 Blauer Enzian and the new shcurzenwagen. Although those were the days, those items were, if not superior, at least, very good in comparison with other manufacturers by them and sadly, superior to some now. Cheers, D.

[@dbrhall]

@@drecksaukerl Oh! And just some more trivia, Klaus-Dieter Jägerndorfer (Jägerndorfer.at) is Walter Bücherl's (Liliput) grandson. That's destiny in the great scheme of things. 😉

[@SamsTrains]

Hi D, thanks very much for the extra background on Liliput, appreciate it. Glad to have found such a quintessential Swiss steamer! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@JonatanGronoset]

Liliput, Fleischmann and other European manufacturers are almost always guaranteed to give you these things: accuracy, exquisite detail and performance. Note that this applies to _before_ the "chinese glutton" aquired them and started cheaping out on components..... _like motors._ There's a reason these are for professional modellers (who'll pay lots of money and be quite snooty about it too) and not hobbyists like James May who tuck them into his pocket after binning the box. And yes, these are the two very distinct camps within the hobby and the fine-detail Euro models belong to one of them. You gain a very great respect and admiration for handling the models because you have to. My recommended method of handling is pincing around the cylinders or front running plate with one hand and the cab running plate with the other. If the loco had a permanent drawbar I'd hold the tender with the second hand and support the loco back end with a finger or two. And I will say it again; sprung buffers is a British thing and European manufacturers realy don't see any point in them! We give you good stuff like traction tires and miserabe disassembly instead. ;) ;) ;)

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Jonatan - yes I've heard great things about old Liliput - while this didn't quite live up to expectations, it was very impressive in some ways! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@andreimihailov671]

@@SamsTrains just get yourself a real EU manufacturers locomotive highly recommended is Roco locomotives if you think this is good level of detail you really don't know anything about the real locomotive models in ho i would recommend roco 70191 It's € 632,90 but they usually price even higher second hand after several years or 70266 if you like diesels with a Sean's of steam

[@AvArIeNmArKu4]

@@SamsTrains or roco world record electric OBB class 1216

[@conistonoldman]

As a Swiss HO fan, I was amazed to find you reviewing a Swiss loco and I enjoyed the programme very much. It's a shame that the running issues detracted from the VFM and it surprised me to see them. Needless to say, the price you paid to TMC sounds pretty reasonable for a Swiss steam tender loco I my experience. If you model Continental European, then you just have to accept high prices. But you also normally take very high quality for granted. Swiss models are generally more expensive than German, French or Italian, as the market for them is much smaller and they are often limited production runs and/or market as "Exclusive". Prices over there are higher because western European countries are generally higher price-higher wage economies, with Switzerland at the top end of that equation. And for us Brits, of course, Brexit has now pushed up import costs, whilst our earnings languish behind our neighbours. I have numerous Liliput models, but most of them are Swiss EMUs, which raise different design issues. I would place them in the middle of the range as far as overall quality, I guess, but not as good all-round as Roco (my favourite brand in terms of VFM).

[@marktegrotenhuis]

To add to my previous comment: New Roco locomotives are also very smooth running. You will barely hear them at low speeds. I really love the quality of Roco and that explains why 11 of my 16 steam locomotives are Roco models. The other 5 are from Fleischmann (3), Liliput (1) and Artitec (1). You probably don't know Artitec, but it is a Dutch brand that only makes Dutch models.

[@SamsTrains]

That's great to hear - I really will have to try one, heard great things about them! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@railsuisseromande]

Hi Sam, nice video as usual ;-) I also own a SBB B 3/4 (no 1367) from Liliput, so I’ll give you some infos and my experience of running this engine quite often on my layout - Mine was much cleaner when I purchased her from my retailer in Switzerland - For the tender connection, the clip is in the accessory bag, it’s a bit tricky to install but when you are used to it it’s easy. I’ve mounted and dismounted it many times and it is really sturdy - For the traction tyre I’m a big fan of them but I think they are at the wrong place, they should have been on the first axle which has much more weight on it and so the loco would have much more power. On mine i added a bit of lead inside the chassis to increase the weight on the motor axle - On mine the motor as failed and I hat to replace it, now I run my engine a lot less to preserve the motor… not quite happy with that - A tip to clean it, I use a small brush and it goes very well (I still haven’t broken anything yet) Greetings from Switzerland ;-)

[@TomPrickVixen]

Swiss naming method: B3/4 B: mix traffic _(no extension): steam powered (e: electric d: diesel - for example) 3: 3 driven axle /4: out of 4 axle in total SBB: Swiss Federal Railway (Schweizerische BundesBahnen) And now u know why we just can't (afford to) buy models to our selves here in the EU so easily. Everything has to be payed by the costumer; AKA they "rip our pants off" for a loco! BTW that plastic plate inside the details bag, IS what secures the loco and tender together!

[@TomPrickVixen]

Yea when Bachmann took over, Liliput's pricings went up (by a lot), but their "reputation" went down, do the new owner's miserliness. Just look at the central pin. IT'S PLASTIC!

[@randytaylor1258]

It would be nice if they said that in the instructions?

[@schuylerschultz804]

I believe that word on the box label, "Schlepptenderlokomotive", would be pronounced "Shlep-tender-locomotive". I can tell almost right away that that's a German word, so the "sch" would be pronounced as "sh" also, it translates to simply "tender locomotive"

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh simpler than I expected, haha! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@conistonoldman]

Well, not quite. Schlepp can translate as "tow", so it's more "towed-tender loco" possibly? Also, of course, I believe to "schlep along" or "schlep around" is a US/New York slang expression roughly meaning to move slowly, awkwardly or tediously, in other words to be a bit of a drag. So, actually quite appropriate to your review of this model! . .... You all really needed to know that, I realise! Sorry, I had nothing better to do.

[@mattsolomon2909]

Hey ! Great videos. I live in Switzerland but originally from U.K. Keep exploring the eu manufacturers like Marklin or Roco. When I moved here and discovered the European ranges for me it absolutely put all U.K. manufacturers in the dust. The complexity and features of models, accessories and rolling stock is vast and advanced. My only query was why they opted for the third rail shoe but you can avoid this by DC.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Matt - I'll be sure to do that! Yes I've heard some of the more quality EU manufacturers really show up the UK ones... looking forward to trying them! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@louisbuscarino7330]

Sam you are a brave man I keep you in my prayers you take a lot of chances with purchasing from other countries. Not knowing what is on these trains the dust and dirt and other fluids you find upon opening the boxes. The engine is very detailed and awesome looking but very high priced. It is out of my range. Great review as usual thank you Sam.

[@MrVorpalsword]

You think Switzerland has lower safety standards than in Britain, I take it you never been abroad then?

[@muir8009]

Strange comment. What's taking chances from other countries? Britain is another country too, so I'm guessing buying there is taking a risk as well?

[@TrentFalkenrath]

Ya know what? The arrangement of the headlamps, shape of the loco, tender, buffer beams, etc reminds me of when LEGO produced an electric train set several years ago. Now, LEGO is from Denmark, not Switzerland, but they have kits from all around the world.

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! You're right - there's definitely something lego about those lamps!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@jeffreysmith156]

Regarding the age of the model, have you checked for a date stamp inside the box? Normally Bachmann include one behind where the engine goes. For earlier Bachmann models the date stamp is on the inside of an end flap. Thank you for an informative video (once again).

[@SamsTrains]

That's a good idea - yes I'll do that! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@peterforden5917]

RE PRICE, you're no longer in the EU, with cutom duties added. that could easily double its costs you should see the prices of Märklin puch! My Liliput tank engine (from circa 1979) was not cheap even back then in Sweden,

[@1maico1]

Toys commodity code is zero-rated for duty Worldwide. There is no vat sales tax on items valued at less than £134 GBP imported into the UK by a commercial company. Above that, you pay 20% vat so it helps to find a dealer who exports stuff outside of the EU who knocks off local sales tax. The only additional charge post-Brexit is the courier handling charge which varies.

[@stormbowman7148]

Having lots of continental European stuff myself, that price is pretty much the standard. UK models must be cheap compared I guess.

[@OlivierGabin]

I model continental (Germany and Italy) and UK models. I had started modelling UK models first before they were around 30 % cheaper than continental ones ten years ago...

[@chasesrailwaylinesrr6447]

Just realized that that el cheapo 0-4-0 runs better than the locomotive you bought in this video Sometimes cheap can payoff

[@SamsTrains]

haha absolutely - I very often find that with the cheap models! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TATICMOOR]

I must admit this is a wonderful looking model from Liliput. Though I don't own and rolling stock myself, they do a super detailed job with their Loco's and even the coaches and wagon stock.

[@finlaycrow7541]

Sam, by any chance was that extra piece of plastic in the accessory pack for covering the connection between loco and tender? Possibly to connect them more securely?

[@clintcoffran6024]

I believe you are correct, there is a tender connector listed on the 2nd page of the parts list that resembles the part in the parts bag.

[@SamsTrains]

Very interesting! If so, I might have to try that! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@debbiemilka2251]

@@SamsTrains Sam, you'll like this. When I saw the visible manufacturer I.D. underneath the boiler I reckoned the plastic piece was meant to used to cover that up ! Nope, probably used to help secure the tender/engine connection.

[@ivovanzon164]

Most European locomotives are designed to run primarily on DCC, which means that the decoder does solve most of the torque issues (and also the sometimes ridiculous top speed). Sprung buffers are seen as a hack to correct bad chassis design unless you are running HoFine. Lilliput does have a history with them in the past as they didn't bother to put proper kinematics on their wagons for a few years. For the pricing. Keep in mind that any non German rolling stock with little re-use potential will cost 50 euro more, as the volumes are way smaller.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing Ivo, appreciate this info! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@justtylerhere1655]

Hi Sam, In terms of the traction tires, all of the big manufacturers here (Märklin/Trix, Roco, Piko, etc.) use them on their models. I collect mostly märklin models and all of them have traction tires on them. Another great review as usual! Greeting from Austria

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing! Yes I've heard that - very strange, as our British locos don't have them, and they pull just fine when they're heavy enough!" Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@SVSportscars]

@@SamsTrains It's clearly a regional choice, like Tyler said all big manufacturers use them even if they locos are heavy. Like him I collect mostly Märklin models and most steam models (tender engines) are around 500g and tank engines around 300-400g The heaviest I have are diesel and electric models, the bigger ones going 600+ and heaviest is 750 gram. I would think it is partially also due to the fact that a lot of rolling stock also have metal frames making a semi realistic length rather heavy. We once replicated a real life record run of 1 loco pulling 60 coaches. The model pulled it without any issues. The coaches could only handle max radius curves otherwise they would tip over from the weight pulling on them from all the other coaches.

[@KS-oc4hu]

@@SamsTrains Actually, the good quality Ho stuff are significantly heavier then British locos, and have traction tires on top of that. So they have absolutely immense puling power. My Hornby locos just wheel slip attempting to pull loads which Roco/Trix locos pull effortlessly.

[@metal_wheels]

That's dreadful, I was thinking of collecting some Marklin stuff. The 3-rail system is one thing but traction tires?? Albert

[@bolesawmayzel6476]

There were also hybrids of steam and electric traction, by that I mean steam locomotives with a pantograph and electrically heated boiler. Gauge on the side of the tender is a water gauge indeed. Added package of coal may be used for weathering (sort of) the whole locomotive I guess. Btw i own one liliput model - catenary service vehicle - probably the most detailed model in my collection. Cheers from Poland, BM

[@railfilm]

The hybrid steam locos were more an experiment during the IIWW . Few small shunting locomotives on bigger yards have got an electric heater and panthografs, but were very inefficient. The recent Liliput locomotives have almost nothing common with the Austrain Liliput origins. Bachmann purchased mainly the brand name and all models were reconstructed and made from better materials at Kader Hong-Kong. Nice video Sam!

[@drecksaukerl]

Traction tires don't bother me (every Marklin engine has them), but the weak tender-engine connection and low rent motor means I'll pass on the AC version. Very informative review. Thanks.

[@randytaylor1258]

Traction tires are a cheap and tacky solution to a problem that shouldn't be there. Also, for this price those extra details should be.metal and not cheap glued plastic. Detail doesn't have to be fragile.

[@rizalardiansyah4486]

Now that you mention it, why do european models really like AC? At least Marklin does that. Is there a great advantage of the DC system that makes adding a "third rail" considered fine? (Yes... I don't like third rails...)

[@SamsTrains]

That's fair enough - I'm not keen on them of course, but plenty don't have a problem with them! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@SVSportscars]

@@randytaylor1258 People on the mainland clearly have a different view on things compared to the UK. Loco weight is generally not the issue. They are often made with a lot of metal parts and 500g is fairly normal for a steamer. It just adds traction in case you need it for realistic train lengths with heavy rolling stock (often made also with a fair bit of metal, or decent/full lengths on inclines (spirals etc) Granted the glue marks etc are excusable as well as the bad motor at these prices (retail) it's just cheap Chinese work, and bad quality control. For me I still find it surprising British models come with the massive tension lock couplings. And have not seen any options for close coupling. In Europe they either fit them with close coupling systems or with a simple on because everybody removes them anyway for their favourite close coupling. Same goes for controls. Yes you can get them in analogue but most buy them digital anyway. AC models are all digital even the most basic starter kit.

[@drecksaukerl]

@@SVSportscars Well put on the traction tire issue.

[@ronineter1]

Very neat review. it looks like a European model in its detail and its price. However it looks like it has a quite disapointing performance from the motor. That big black clip you saw in the detail bag you thought might be used for a speaker might be to go on top of that tender connection. If you would like to look at some European brands that have a better reputation look for Trix(Marklin), Fleischmann and Roco. Trix has made a very nice BR24 2-6-0 model with sound and a rssp of around 200 euros that you might like. I dont know how much available that is atm.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for the comment and the info - and definitely, I'd be interested in trying some of those! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Michaelgoestofrance]

Welcome to the world of European models, Sam! When I first started modelling about 35 years ago, I was drawn to the European stuff for its then superior detail, running - flywheels, etc. - flush glazing, detail parts. It was miles (or kilometres) ahead of British outline models of the time. But you certainly paid the price. In those days, it was worth the extra. But then there was a revolution in British outline modelling and suddenly the higher prices of European models didn't seem so justified. Obviously, British models are more expensive than they used to be but, on the whole, I do think you get what you pay for (see Accurascale Deltic...). In Europe people have just got used to paying these high prices. I collect the Swiss Re460 series of locos. I've got many from HAG, which hand-manufactures in Switzerland, my most expensive was €450 (second hand!). They're beautiful to look at but, apart from being made of metal, don't offer THAT much more detail than a British outline model. If it weren't for Brexit (I live in France), I'd be tempted by more British outline stuff but once you add the new customs and VAT etc. onto the price, I may as well stick with Continental European. Out of interest, when you see a new Euro model's spec, traction tyres are listed as a 'benefit'. Funny, huh?!

[@lindaoffenbach]

Excellent and fair review Sam. Schleppentender locomotive..., LOL. I.e. a drag-along-tender loco translated hahah. Certainly very pricey from British perspective but larger continental made steamer models with tender easily start at 350 Euros without all the intricate details such as Liliput do. For the money this item clearly is a compromise. Lots of details but at the cost of some niggling details pointed out by you. Traction tyres are generally no issue for continental modellers. That’s a typical British topic. All Märklin models have them, the advantage being that inclines up to 3 - 6% are no issue at all whatsoever, whilst on DCC the motor rpm is even being automatically regulated compensated on ramps. However, the biggest let down of this model seems to be the rather rudimentary and weak motor. A super slow crawl isn’t prototypical actually but she should at least be able to drive very slowly consistently and pull very well without any hesitation on curves. As it seems on DC, the motor is not adequate for analogue AC variant tbh. The question rather is... has it actually been designed for DCC...? On the other hand, it is being offered for analogue operation so it should have worked properly here imho.

[@simonbell527]

17:40 I'd say the rectangular plate in the detail bag would be to help secure the tender to the loco. It looked about the right size for it on the video.

[@16jan1986]

A lots of us running 3 rail need the traction tires if you want to pull more than one coach

[@AlongPreservedLines]

Fantastic video Sam, I like how you're now looking at locomotives from outside the UK, perhaps maybe you could have a look at a Dutch locomotive? I know liliput has made a few of them and some of them are absolutely stunning, keep up the great content - TIDS

[@rensleenders1694]

I definitly agree with that mate. I am dutch and i think that we have some great locomotives here. Here in europe we some have great model companies such as Roco, piko, and trix they make some great dutch models and look absolutely stunning

[@SamsTrains]

Thank you! It's been great fun looking at locos from overseas - definitely more of that to come! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@harrybarrington8917]

@@rensleenders1694 don't forget about philotrain and artitec. though expensive their dutch models do look great.

[@Alex-cw3rz]

Is it just me or is it front heavy, it looks like the front of the boiler is lower than it should be and the cab is rising up, maybe the front wheel being unsupported is allowing it to droop, 32:13 shows what I mean well.

[@ronb4113]

I think the clip to keep the coupling between loco and tender safe is in the parts bag. Liliput never had great quality models. They are not very durable . The gears on the wheels break very easy and then you have to change the loco wheels. All in all very much money for little quality. Altough it is not the same with each model. some models are better than others.

[@IanCurrey]

Yup, I noticed that too and think you may well be right.

[@PercyTheSmallEngineStudios]

Sam you should build a 009 area on your layout on the top of the hills and add cuttings to the hills to be able to get to ground level or just a 009 section on the non carpet area if so I would look at the Talyllyn Railway or ffestiniog railway for reference

[@paulweston8755]

you are a star as always Sam, another fine review 👍😁

[@williamsquires3070]

For that price, I’d expect a brake van in matching livery (or, as we Yanks call it, a caboose). I think the extra packet of “coal” is if you want a bigger pile in the tender; just dilute some white glue 50/50 in water, then dribble over the existing coal load and sprinkle on the coal. Once the glue dries, shake the excess off, and back into the baggie. Repeat as desired, or you run out. You could also sprinkle a little on the cab floor near the firebox using the same technique. You could even save a bit and sprinkle it around your locomotive servicing facility, or put in an empty coal wagon to suggest it was carrying coal. Quite nice of them to include that, I think. 😌 I don’t believe the flashing on the boiler just ahead of the cab is a separately fitted detail, though. I’ll have to take off half a star for that. 🙁

[@cirseltoo]

The RRP is for the German market- when modelling HO in the eighties and nineties you would pay around three times as much for a Liliput model as you would for a similar UK model. As an aside the electric warning plate would be right for Epoch 1, Switzerland was well blessed with overhead electric trains (15KV) in the Epoch I period. Lastly- traction tryes are expected by mkodellers on the Continent.

[@TTTEFan84]

This is impressive

[@darknut9696]

Will you look at some RoCo steam loco's? they're quite detailed and heavy from what my uncle own's

[@ed4415]

I wonder if you are modelling a Swiss railway that you might desire traction tyres to aid with inclines?

[@railfilm]

I hate also tracktion tires. When is it ipossible i always order together with a new model a set of wheels without traction tires. It is a biggest mistake of the recent model industry.

[@muir8009]

Weight is all you need

[@fastkeys38]

Hi Sam. Is the plastic piece you say might be a housing for a speaker actually a clip to cover the loco tender connection? It looks like on the oiling diagram a similar pattern to the top of the clip is drawn on the diagram

[@jamesdunloptrains]

Awesome video today Sam such a beautiful modle

[@David-ci1vn]

The French FFS is the odd one out as Chemins de fer fédéraux suisses, the acronym doesn't include the country.

[@percytste]

Sam, could you see who is your fastest OO/HO scale collection? It would mean a lot to me and would probably be a very entertaining video

[@Jimyjames73]

A very Lovely Loco - Loving the 5 lamps on it!!! 😎🚂🚂🚂

[@thorswrath9151]

Sam, you really need to try a broadway limited locomotive. Even if is 400-700 usd. All of my steam is BLI and so far all are fantastic.

[@muir8009]

It'd be interesting: bli have a very mixed reputation, generally it seems the electronics are their biggest failing, but gorgeous details

[@SamsTrains]

I do! I'm planning to try one soon hopefully :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ianhaynes5898]

This model looks fine and dandy but but then I heard 'traction tires' - the only place for traction tires is on the Montreal Metro!

[@USRA_Fanatic]

Looks like another candidate for Sam’s 3D printed motor upgrade treatment!

[@NeilWB]

Very enjoyable review Sam. I see that others have answered many of the open questions. I have some Liliput locomotives - but you have to choose the models with care - some are outstanding and some are more of a mixed bag - like the B3/4 you Review here. Most of my locomotives are made by Brawa and they are all stellar performers - but tend to run out at upwards of EURO 400.

[@thecountofangelicislands6183]

Could i interest you in the PIKO made Taurus electric engine in german (DB), austrian (ÖBB) and hungarian (MÁV) livery? I have the MÁV one as a good hungarian, ot runs well and it's one of the cheapest sirious engine in h0

[@modelrailwaynoob]

I have thought about doing a Swiss scene as I have been there many times. I own some Liliput coaches but not a loco yet. Generally I find the HO Euopean locomotives very good but also very expensive. Ep1 is what I go for, for my WWI stuff.

[@SamsTrains]

That's a great idea - hope that all comes together for you some time :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@debbiemilka2251]

Hello Sam, As always an enjoyable review that is quite thorough. If I had purchased one of these Swiss Moguls I would like to experiment with improvements. A larger, more powerful motor first off. Replace the traction tyre with a full on metal contact only. I would also attempt to put additional weight somewhere in the chassis. I would also be searching for lost wax brass castings for a number of the fiddly plastic detail pieces. I would try to find a way to brighten the headlights output. The reversering lights looked better for some reason.

[@MachRacer4]

The bag of coal(?) is not anything new to anyone familiar with the Bachmann Spectrum Line from here in the US as Bachmann included it with every Spectrum line steam engine.

[@muir8009]

Zeuke of course used chunks of real coal in their tenders from the late 50's. It's a nice touch

[@mordomarty]

Loved the beginning intro XD

[@MrVorpalsword]

put real coal in my OO tenders when I was about 14 in 1977 - a no brainer when you've got some in the house ... obviously the last word in realism. From Donny so tons of coal about STILL!

[@Marco-xz9sc]

Lots of high end European models that weigh a ton still have traction tires

[@Rasher-og2up]

Lilliput is normally quite good value for money in my opinion, I’ve got some of their stuff in HOe and G scales which is all decent quality stuff.

[@SamsTrains]

Glad to hear that - I will have to try more then maybe! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Drockthe3rd]

Heritage railway style trains with foreign locos in the future?

[@Mildcat743]

I would love to see something on the opposite end of the spectrum, something steam from the US that's cartoonishly large, like a Union Pacific 9000 class or a Pennsylvania T1.

[@muir8009]

Think Sam's done a challenger from memory, which is about as big as they get, only about 10' shorter than the way too over popular big boy, and about the same as a prr t1. Wasn't a particularly enlightening review, just another garden variety model steam loco. This lilliput review is something good though, maybe one day it may be a bemo!

[@sharkymcsharknose2979]

@@muir8009 I don't recall Sam ever reviewing a Challenger. I do recall him saying (maybe on engineers-only stream?) two major problems regarding Big McLargeHuge US steam are the prices and the fact most need larger than 2nd radius (438mm/18in) curves to operate. Some models can operate on tighter curves but take compromises in realism to do so, usually by adding extreme articulation (MTH 4-12-2) or adding blind (flangeless) drivers where there were none on the prototype (Broadway Pennsy T-1).

[@muir8009]

@@sharkymcsharknose2979 cheers for that. Couldn't remember exactly, I'm not really much of a dedicated fan of this channel, might have just been that fake FEF northern, which is the same size as the challenger. Marklin had an articulated frame and rods for their 44 for their very tight radius curves, back in the days when reliability and functionality was paramount

[@jeannedarcalterberserker8620]

I can't belive you actually got your hands on a Swiss locomotive because in Switzerland they are so damn expensive I was like: has he lost his mind paying over 300£ on this locomotive? Luckily you didn't thank god. I was very curious as it's a locomotive I really wanted because I'm Swiss. I've seen the real thing on the 175 years of Swiss Railways celebration last month running. I also had a look in the cab. The real thing is quite amazing but sadly the tiny motor is very disappointing. The traction tires are one thing, but the tiny motor is completely unacceptable. The diecast boiler was a major surprise for me. Maybe to be expected on a locomotive as expensive as this but every time it happens it's a big surprise for me. Great review, Sam. Also thanks again for reviewing a locomotive from Switzerland it's such a niche country and we didn't have a lot of steam locomotives as electrification came along very quickly due to the many water power stations. We also pretty much skipped Diesel all together which is a shame. Greetings from Switzerland 🇨🇭 Also that music in the beginning gave me a good laugh thank you for that 🤣

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah - don't know how you guys put up with paying that much - it's bonkers for something like this which is nice but nothing special! Yes the tiny motor sucked, but I'm a huge fan of the diecast :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@jeannedarcalterberserker8620]

@@SamsTrains the fact is I don't I always buy models second hand because for one they have more choice because a few model shops in my area closed recently and second I can actually afford them. I'm still a student I can't magically pull out 180£ or the equivalent to buy a model the used stuff is 50-100£ mostly sometimes even less. Also if you're already did a Swiss locomotive how about a Japanese one? I'm very curious about your opinion on Kato for thier beautiful mechanisms :D have a nice day

[@spearmintpony7105]

They should try making an Eb 3/5.

[@paulsngaugechannel]

Hi Sam, A great video, you have found out the Hornby/Bachman and now the rest of the manufacturers Ethos for the model railroad/railway future. When I worked in Europe, Switzerland, Germany, Holland etc on free time I occasionally visited the exclusive world of model shops, and even in those days (20 +) years ago they were always expensive, I looked at the different ones available and they were always better detail than uk ones at the time. But as the comments mention, it’s basically a collector’s market that is there. I could never afford a European model, even with a good exchange rate. Good model for display, bad model for layout. I am reading the comments as I like Marklin of Sweden who has a great channel for building and he and reviews locomotives occasionally and also mentioned the elitism of model. Ownership. Hi

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Paul - yes you're right that's something you hear all the time - and the quality/detail of this model was definitely higher than your average one from the UK, no doubt! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@JustinFrazier_360]

Well done with the review sam, cheers keep up the good work!

[@ColonelVermel]

Hi Sam, nice video! I enjoy them very much. I have n-gauge locos so watching your videos is really just for entertainment but I also learn some things about maintenance and handling of locos. I can confirm your experience with Liliput. I have a n-gauge Liliput loco. Very nice and detailed model - really horrible runner with no power and extremely expensive.

[@CounterCraftYT]

The swiss had electric locos early on, so it doesn‘t suprise me that it has the warningsigns.

[@SamsTrains]

Yes so I hear - would love to look at some of those! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Blur4strike]

Not even Liliput is safe from Bachmann's distinct fingerprint. Bit of a shame too as it looks rather nice, but it fails in the performance test where it matters most while still ripping the customer off even at a sale price.

[@SamsTrains]

haha very much so - overall pretty decent though, if not quite in performance! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Basilikum42069]

To install the coal dust dilute some pva glue in water and use that to fix it to the plastic

[@alanhaynes4576]

Sam, try a ROCO loco if you can afford it or even a Fleischmann. I would also mention Marklin but I highly doubt you could afford one of those.

[@AQuietNight]

Maybe the Swiss designed to use the B3/4 for going downhill only.

[@OlivierGabin]

Welcome to the world of continental railways, with 300-400 € retailer's prices for a steam engine, mandatory traction tyres and working lights... This one is not the most representative of the overall quality, the tender connection and the asthmatic motor are not representative. You will have a better experience with something from Roco, Piko, Brawa or even Rivarossi (whose italian 0-6-0 T Gruppo 835 I have to test has no traction tyres, by the way). One cheap and interesting engine you can try at a pricetag below GBP 100 is the Roco BR 80. It's a basic 0-6-0 T that does the jog and look pretty, and have better dynamic qualities than this one. On the not awfully expensive, you can try some models by Roco (the german BR 86 2-6-2 T, below 300 €) or Piko (try their BR 78, same pricetag). If you have enough money, you can test a Brawa engine, but don't kill me about the pricetag (up to 500 €). I have one (BR 57 0-10-0) and it's worth the price. Outside Germany, if you can find a Rivarossi engine (seems they have sold off all their models, save for the Gr. 835, just reissued by now), it's worth the run. Not awfully expensive, and very nice if you are looking for an italian steam engine. By the way, try Modellbahnshop-Lippe of Modellbahn union for sales to the UK, and expects H. M. Customs office to bill you the VAT. I know perfectly that in the other direction, the french Douane has a nice customer with me !

[@SVSportscars]

Some good choices there for sure. Like you said this one does not justify the price tag and represent the continental models sadly. Brawa makes some very nice models. If you want to go all out also in price then ESU has some very detailed models, just saw the reveal of their new T18/BR 78. it was very impressive. But so was the pricetag. I think Sam would faint.

[@soerenwizard]

You could try Trix also. Part of the Märklin group.

[@rizalardiansyah4486]

I believe they mostly make N scale models, right?

[@SVSportscars]

@@rizalardiansyah4486 That is their Minitrix line. Trix these days mostly makes the DC versions of the Märklin models for H0.

[@soerenwizard]

@@SVSportscars Correct.

[@markrobert6028]

I have a Lilliput (pre Bachmann) Western, "OO" scale (not scale length). I once worked out that it would have cost about a months pay when it was new! It still works. I also have a Fleishman Warship. I like that a lot but it is "HO". So at least it is a "true" scale. You should review more Cuntinental stuff.

[@NorthmassRails]

11:30 the “69, Nice.” Made me laugh 😂 love the video!

[@ManOfUnknownWorth]

At that the RRP, I would expect no plastic outside of the windows & LEDs and the DCC chip included. Liliput should also use a more substantial motor, or at least say that it's better with DCC. I have an HOe/OO-9 locomotive from Liliput that, while otherwise decent, doesn't have the coal load as part of the molding for whatever reason. "Schlepptenderlokomotive" isn't that difficult to pronounce and just looks daunting due to the lack of spaces. The "schlepp" part is particularly amusing as many of us in the USA will interpret it as a a tender locomotive that lazily drags along, as we borrowed the word from Yiddish. German is also the most common ancestry in the US (unless one lumps all of the Hispanic groups together), so German surnames like Schmitt, Schultz, and Schneider are pretty normal here.

[@marktegrotenhuis]

A loco with too small of an engine and only one driven axle with traction tires is considered bad, even when it's highly detaild. I don't know about Bachmann or Hornby locos, but for let's say Roco on locomotives with 3 or more driving axles it is common to have a minimum of 3 driven axles and 1 of them with traction tires (locomotive driven models) or 4 driven axles of which 2 with traction tires (tender driven models). On some models you can even find more driven axles and that will mean that there is a driving shaft going from the locomotive to the tender. But also for diesel and electric locomotives I would say Roco models in general have a lot of power and traction. However the traction tires are kind of a necessity because most of Roco's models are made of plastic with just the frame being cast metal. Roco does their best to make the frame as big and heavy as possible though, without interfering with the appearance of the model of course.

[@muir8009]

It's ironic: Sam is very critical of models having more than one powered axle, UK models have only one. Sam's past negative comments mainly refer too excessive resistance and unnecessary complication and parts

[@marktegrotenhuis]

@@muir8009 I find that quite funny, because I am very sceptical about the idea of having just one driven axle. For sure it creates less resistance because there are less gears, but it goes against the nature of how real trains work. More driven wheels means more contact with the rails thus more friction between the wheels and rails, which results in more traction.

[@muir8009]

@@marktegrotenhuis totally agree. Sometimes it works okay, but generally the only time I've seen this single axle drive is postwar British, and later US equipment. My prewar US stuff is all massively geared, and immensely well engineered, and my tt scale equipment, lots from the 60's and 70's, has all axles geared, with quite clever arrangements. The single axle drive always struck me as being 'budget' minded. Hornby dublo being a case in point, with its general reputation of being the premier British brand, especially over triang. I think there's a tendency to forget that when dublo was developed it was intended to be a good model, but affordable at well under the competing trix price, and postwar well under, say, Marklin. A quick look and the CCS800 was £16 11 6, trix Pacific was £10, whilst a farish merchant navy was £5 9 9, a complete dublo LMS train set was £7 12 6, the balance I think being the Lionel O gauge Santa Fe set being a whopping £54 16 6, making even our lovely Krokodil appearing affordable. All that is basically to show that dublo and triang were budget model railway systems, and this single axle drive we see today has basically been carried over since those days. I could add: the resistance caused be gears is a little farfetched: a decently designed loco with suitable motor would well outweigh that. I would've thought the large amount of strain on tiny side rods would cause more issues...

[@marktegrotenhuis]

@@muir8009 That last point you're making about the strain on the rods on the outside of the train, that's another reason to want more driven axles. It completely takes to load off of those rods.

[@Kal.556]

If I order this and a better motor do you think it would be worth it to add it in?

[@1maico1]

Stick a £20 ESU Lokpilot V5 decoder in and see what happens. The motor may be set up for higher dcc voltages.

[@yozmatoz]

lilliput does a lot of 009 too (something you should expand to in my opinion0 and there stuff is insane to buy brand new but usually dirt cheap second hand!

[@SamsTrains]

Ahh fascinating - yes I'd love 009 one day :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@patriced3364]

Hi Sam, thanks a lot for this nice presentation. As a SBB fan, I really am shocked with the quality of this model. Not to speak about the price which is , as you state, a total rip off! Oh I suspect the plate in the bag is to adapt on the electric coupler so it holds well the whole thing. To get better continental locomotives, it would be better to look at the recent Piko, Roco, Brawa, old Fleischmann steam were really nice also... Thanks to your review, I notice that Liliput did not really progress with quality. I own an Eb 3/5 and it is very average. The Tigerli was also very basic. I think since Liliput is now Chinese, the quality went really down: back in the days, steam locos from Liliput were really famous for their quality. Really really sad... Anyway, again, thank you for the great review! Patrice

[@andybones752]

I agree that the price for this thing new is to much, but there might be examples on the second hand markets for cheaper. Also, while it doesn't exactly run like a "swiss watch", i don't hate it; I think it's built to do what it's supposed to do and nothing more. I think esthetically, that it reminds me of the locomotives from the movie "The Train" with Burt Lancaster and the animated movie about Anastasia.

[@CounterCraftYT]

Could you maby make a review on a modern loco from Germany? I would realy like to hear your opinion.

[@vito3533]

I’ve always loved the look of Swiss locomotives, though I’ve mostly enjoyed their beauty through the videos of the LGB locomotives scattered around KZbin (I have have much interest in spending upwards of $1,500 for a locomotive, as much as I love LGB’s engines and rolling stock). Great review as usual, shame the locomotive wasn’t as great as its price. Since you are in the business (or were, if I remember correctly) of servicing models and are familiar with Bachmann’s engines, do you have any clue why my On30 2-6-0 mogul grinds when running forward and is silent in reverse? It had a fairly simple mechanism that I have been unable to personally observe due to the base keeper plate refusing to free itself from the detailing parts and my fear of breaking any of these parts, but I am yet to come to a conclusion as to what exactly it is and I’m a bit fearful of disassembling the unit any further than taking the keeper plate off (which I already said was a bust) out of inexperience. Is this an issue you have also had with any Bachmann engines or similar companies and found the culprit of the issue? I’m hesitant to properly take the engine apart to see but I am also wanting to do whatever I can myself before taking it to a shop.

[@JonatanGronoset]

STORY TIME: A number of years ago I ordered a model of an Ub electric from Märklin and it ran like a sack of... well you know what. No torque, crawled at full power. I returned it and was told they had many people asking for a refund, apparently an entire product batch was faulty and the quality control at a new facility wasn't up to scratch, something I hope they've corrected now. Since then I always request the dealer to test the model before shipping it, I value good performance over mint condition. This was one of the few times a new model had given me trouble, the brand has otherwise always been very consistent with quality.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing Jonatan - surprised to hear that of Marklin, thought they were decent quality! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@pkmntrainerdennis90]

Nice looking model! Would be fun to see you review more european stuff from maybe Roco, Fleischmann or Trix. And Trix makes like 2 rail versions of some Märklin stuff it seems, I got one Swedish Trix loco myself, called Sa SJ.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks! It would be fun - I'll be sure to do more soon! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@paulcarroll7767]

Very cool Sam :) and I’m more of a British train person but I like some American locos so I think you should review some American Bachmann locos cheers :)

[@muir8009]

He's done lots

[@paulcarroll7767]

@@muir8009 cool

[@gelwaregeorge2685]

Are you forgetting that those little crosses on the tender axle boxes might well be something to do with the swiss flag?

[@maringarvanovic8011]

That is why it is so expensive!. It runs on coal. Hornby used to do this with the new Britannias. It was a lovely touch that shock they do not do anymore.

[@SuperJ333]

Pickups on wheels fitted with traction tyres, dodgy coupling, instructions are wrong, underpowered motor, cogs in reverse, no torque, no crawl speed, no slow speed, slows down dramatically on curves, RRP £357 - this would not be "a difficult conclusion" for me!

[@DaiElsan]

A Schlepper is German for tractor, so a rough guess is tractor tender locomotive not a tank engine.

[@matbeech7518]

Noticed that a lot most the European stuff is very expensive and some still are tender driven I know some of the roco models have a tender drive and can be around $600aud. The Australian models can be just as bad but it maybe due to small production runs which is why they justify charging as much as they do.

[@lukeslocomotives]

43:12 Looks like a runaway van

[@SimplyTakuma]

00:30 Hello Sam! Many greetings from Switzerland and thank you changing the music! 😂😂😂😂😂😂 Also nice model of the B 3/4! You maybe are gonne be jealous, but i could see this locomotive everytime on the _Museum of Transportation Switzerland_ in Lucerne from my childhood up to today when i had the chance to visit the museum. Nr. 1367 is also stationed very near on my home town in Brugg (Aargau) on the SBB Historic today and its running also. It came out of the museum, but when i dont know. 😂

[@SammoKarm]

I would have reservations with this, the flanges look to be too deep to enable this to be run on Code 75 fine scale track! What is the possibility of you obtaining a length of Code 75 or other fine scale track and in future just run what you review on this as well as your normal running track? To see if the flanges contact the sleepers. I have been very fortunate in that I have only had to purchase 8 axles with wheels to allow me to run that particular rolling stock on my fine scale, upper section of the layout. Manufacturers maybe think that by fitting lighting, it allows a higher price tag. Sorry but I think it is crap. It would look nice in a cabinet though.

[@stephenhalls7948]

I always watch your videos and as a European modeller it's great to see some European loco reviews. I have seen this loco reviewed before and your motor and traction comments are the same as theirs. A number of Liliput steam loco's are poor performers. I have one that runs well and another that has poor pickups and won't run without a capacitor fitted.

[@rizalardiansyah4486]

Ooh! What kind of capacitors do you add? Electrolytic cap? Or the small button-like caps (ceramic?...)? What farad rating? Sounds like a good idea

[@David-ci1vn]

At 9:12 re dusting, instead of a brush, try a gas cleaner such as fr keyboards.

[@gamingwithlukeJToH]

Bachmann has lost it at this point. Like seriously, who would pay £357.95 for an HO locomotive?? When we said £220 was expensive for an OO locomotive, we didn't mean raise the price by £138!

[@randytaylor1258]

HO -- even smaller.

[@James-Railyard]

I’m surprised to see some of these modern upgrades to a Bachmann engine and seeing the issues here is kind of a let down. I just wish Bachmann would use bearings on US locomotives and a better motor/motherboard on them. I will say, I’d love to see you review a Precision Craft Models Teading T1. They did make them DC/silent and I’d recommend them as the sounded version has Loksound 3.5 which is very junky. You shouldn’t be disappointed as they are very weighty and have the option for rubber tire or metal tire. Should also have no issues on your track as mine can go around an 18 inch curve with no issue. I have a couple examples I could film doing runbys and send to you on Twitter if you would like.

[@lukeslocomotives]

Ah, at least I'm not the only one who says "nice" after hearing the number 69 (nice)

[@davidstrains4910]

Interesting locomotive there Sam the only Lilliput engine that I have is an old LNER peppercorn A2 AH Peppercorn

[@timstrainvideos142]

roco, piko, ls models, ree modeles, brawa, nmj, acme, b-models... there are some excellent euro model brands, but bachmann liliput are not the best imo.

[@OlivierGabin]

I have read many negative comments on Liliput engines, usually centering around the poor performances and the substandard drivetrain. Unfortunately, this model confirms this trend...

[@markphillips5368]

Hi Sam. Google translate tells met that Schlepptender lokomotive is German and means Tender locomotive

[@marioangols3186]

Hi Sam, Could you kindly let us know where you got a 180 pound price for this loco?, I searched in TMC and didn't find it for that price. BR