Backcountry Aviation's STOL Tips: (The Approach)

learntolandshort.com/upcoming-...
Here is a complete write up on this topic:
www.backcountrypilot.org/stol...

[@FlyingWildAZ]

FINALLY, I have found a video that beautifully illustrates how I have been training students to execute a short field for many years. Excellent job Backcountry! The training community is doing students no favors by padding approach speeds and telling them to aim for a point 200 feet in front of their intended landing point then float to touchdown...WRONG WRONG WRONG! There ain't a real world short field out there where that training environment gamesmanship is going to work.

[@BlueBaron3339]

Outstanding, from the clear explanations of the aerodynamics to the added visual aids to the in-flight video, this is the best video on this subject I have seen. Plus the Ennio Morricone score from For a Few Dollars More nicely suited the setting 😉

[@johnnygates8668]

I had my first introduction flight a few days ago with ok3 air. I am so hooked. I fly in my sleep, when I'm driving my double tanker, when I'm walking and while I'm at the dinner table! I love your videos, I WILL do what you do! Thank you for sharing, I FREAKIN love watching and can't wait to do it.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thats great man! congrats. Feel free to PM if you have any questions. Years ago I used to counsel pilots on the path towards becoming commercial pilots. I am sure some of that info still applies, don't hesitate to reach out.

[@clausmvp]

Thanks for making these type of videos, it makes "us" (pilot beginners) be more aware of things that one could not though by it self!

[@steveburrington4288]

This is what I've been looking for. Please keep STOL educational entertainment videos coming.

[@Backcountryaviation]

😀noted!

[@DanielPurvis]

Currently learning to fly and started in a SportCub-this is how I've been taught to land from the get go; glide approach, fly the attitude (speed) and power for height. I've also been taught to sideslip with confidence and short take-off. It wasn't until I met other young (well, I'm 35-younger than me I mean) who learned in Cessna's how different my approach to landing is. It's like we're speaking a different language. So glad I've been learning to fly country from the outset! Dreaming a Cub of my own now.

[@jurgensgoose]

Thanks for your work making these videos. I know it takes a lot of time to generate this kind of content, and it's a great counterpoint (and complement) to the standard handbook flight instruction.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks! They do take a lot of time so it is always nice to hear feedback! So glad you enjoyed!

[@parqld]

Great!, one of the most informative aviation videos i have ever seen.

[@honorb4glory606]

I've never flown a plane, but I love flying bush planes in Microsoft Flight Simulator. I've casually played the game till recently, really just enjoying myself, and trying to figure it out on my own. Now I'm taking it more seriously, since I've finally figured out a good way to approach and touch down. After watching this video, now I know I've taught myself correctly, but I still have a lot to learn. +1 sub

[@kalashw1]

As an instructor this is a great video and preach this to my students....conventional gear flying is a lost art

[@MrEvilMonkeyKing]

Thanks for this vid! Clips like this really make me wish I could afford to get in the air again!

[@jhyacinth]

Wow. One of the best instructional videos I've ever seen. BIG thanks!

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks! That means a lot we have spent lots of time making this series, so we always love hearing they are helping somewhere.

[@eiclan]

Those approaches look like the ones we used to do in the old Kookerburra glider,using the airbrakes like you were using power because we didn't want to retrieve the glider from half way down the strip. This was at the Goldfields gliding club in West Aussie, we had 6000 ft of red dirt and we always wanted to be up one end so landing short was the go.

[@allanchong4772]

Ha! that's how my 2 best instructors taught me from the beginning in the Maule M5 (220hp franklin with VG kit). One was a hardcore Pitts pilot, and he had landed engine out 3 times, so from the time you turned crosswind, you better be able to land back on the runway. That meant snugging up downwind and steep low power approaches. Base is more of a curve about 1/3rd - 1/2 as far out as most primary instructors teach. The other had over 10k in TW, mostly on grass and dirt, and that's the way he rolled. It does cut way down on the bouncing and floating. His home strip is 1800' grass with tall trees at both ends. (which was better than the neighboring one that had a 30deg dogleg halfway down.) One thing he really emphasized when in this slow back of the power curve flying--use the rudder for adjusting heading, and when you need to raise/lower wing. Ailerons should be neutral. Too much primary training teaches everyone that the rudder is a tool to be used only on landing. We spent almost an entire lesson flying plane trimmed out REAL SLOW (not sure how slow, it was off the bottom of scale), not touching ailerons period. Shallow turns with rudder only. Stall horn going the whole lesson. Annoying thing for students with this approach, is you've got a precious little window to flare. In the Maule, you're yanking back the wheel to your gut and holding it there. Hard to get it at the right moment. If you've got the runway, adding a little power right in the flare allows you to goose it slightly I'm too scared to do the power-on helicopter approach, plus it tends to cut your visibility significantly. Engine loss and you're going to land short or possibly stall if you don't push forward quick & hard. Most of the typical C172 BFR instructors tend to be unhappy when you fly this type of approach. "You're turning base too soon", "you're on back side of power curve", "too steep an approach", "not a very stabilized approach", "work on a smoother longer flare", etc

[@sebastianbottger1044]

Interesting. I first learned to land the improper way (the nose down approach), until I found a write-up from an alleged F-16 pilot for a computer game on how to do flame-out landings. This changed everything. I once managed to get a glider down on a 30m field with this landing technique. I think it's a lot safer and more reliable than the nose-down approach and I am baffled why this is still taught.

[@ianbrown5366]

Great Video and great explanation. We are learning in a Cirrus SR20, so it's hard to take this into account as it's landings are sooo much different, but as i plan to get training in other air crafts, this will be very useful

[@RICKROCKERTHEORIGIONAL]

Thank you for the beautiful illustrations and explanations, something understandable. My dream is to someday build a kitfox.

[@josecarlosgonzalez4741]

Great videos. I have learn a lot. I think they are the best videos for Tail draggers up to now.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Jose Carlos Gonzalez Thanks! we are working on a version or two for nose wheel as well.

[@carlsenden8750]

Fantastic information and production. I have flown fixed wing but primarily helicopters. With ground roll like this, it's possible to see an economic alternative to heli ownership.

[@cdreid9999]

why do you think we buy them? Safe helicopter - 1m plus. Safe stol plane - 10 - 30k

[@chrisclifton8323]

Excellent explanation. I get it!! That makes perfect sense.

[@Mikhail1221]

как красиво! природа красивая места красивые,самолеты это великолепно)))

[@maxbootstrap7397]

Great video series!

[@ohadchaet8519]

Very educational and well taught. Thanks a lot

[@russell461]

Great job Patrick

[@GravityKnightFlying]

Thanks guys! This is amazing.... Seems so strange when thinking about it, but it works great!! Just started practicing this is my S6S

[@Backcountryaviation]

+GravityKnightFlying you look local to us. Shoot me a PM or look me up off my website. perhaps we can meet up.

[@69ERBronco]

Great Video, helps bring it all together.

[@aviator1552]

I understand this is not an instructional video. But after some practice away from the airport I've started to use this technique in a 182 onto a asphalt runway, I'm flying it in at idle power, 30 degrees of flaps, and 65knots so I have plenty safety margin. The main reason I like this type approach is it's none reliance on power, and the brisk firm touch down and short roll out. It's really nice to have another type of approach in "bag of tricks" that way I don't have to fly the same boring 75knot 30 degrees high power 2000' float landing. Thank you a lot from Colorado.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Aviator 15 whereabouts in Colorado? I’m out of the denver area.

[@aviator1552]

Backcountry Aviation I’m Based out of Centennial airport.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Aviator 15 www.backcountryaviation.com shoot me an email. Perhaps we can do a little flying. I also commute down there from time to time and park at tac. If you ever see the maule or a white cub stop by!

[@merrywoodaviation3622]

Now to work on the accuracy landings, which is why this is a power ON approach (not at idle). You're hard pressed to land on your spot without use of power to adjust your descent rate. Also, be aware that your plane will stall at a lower airspeed on the approach with some power on than it will at your idle setting. Look up Mission Aviation Fellowship landing method if you want a text-based description of this short field method.

[@GirishVenkatachalam]

Immensely educational many thanks

[@billybobsbanjo]

Wow! you guys do some amazing stuff.

[@SyberPrepper]

Very informative. Great video.

[@Aviation101]

You sir, make me want to forget about speedy airplanes and get a cub.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Next time I'm down in the plane I'll give you a shout and take you up. Much of the footage was shot down there.

[@Aviation101]

That would be a treat. Wish I had some more tailwheel option down here - a couple of cubs within 100 miles and a Citabria.

[@cdreid9999]

got an avid speedwing for about 13k. .. im just saying. im betting you pay at least half of that in maintenance every year...

[@onddu2254]

I would definetly get a cub if i'd have the money

[@akflyer6047]

great instructional videos

[@FlyingWildAZ]

It should be pointed out that the remaining energy from the steeper approach is not only dissipated in the arresting of the sink in the quick flare but also is dissipated more vertically into the ground and landing gear from the firm landing and less horizontally in float and roll out which occurs in normal landings. This results in very short roll outs.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks for the kind words! Check out our video on the landing it gets more into the flare than this one. Thanks!

[@FlyingWildAZ]

Backcountry Aviation Just looked at the landing video and.......you nailed it! Thanks for putting these videos together. Best I've seen on the subject.

[@SailOnFlyBy]

Excellent Vid!

[@Battl3field]

oh my word. what a life to live with a plane in a place like that. Only in FSX can i try to re imagine it using ORBX and quality addons abviously

[@collindass2361]

magnificent landing skills

[@kelvint9268]

Very good guys, wow very exciting

[@airplanegeorge]

do you use this in windy, gusty conditions.

[@mickcraven980]

And by the way, your image quality is crystal clear. What camera did you use?

[@bluepirate78]

Very nice video. Have you thought of a Mexico Adventure? It's much safer than years past. I'm here now as much as the states.

[@suncountryairline]

I really enjoyed this video!

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thank you!

[@chrisdeuel5773]

Fantastic!

[@MrFilmtech]

Very interesting video. Thank you very much for sharing it.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks for taking the time to check it out. There are several more in this series, and we got a bit more sophisticated with each one.

[@VoyaPilot]

Very useful ^^ thanks

[@JasonWoodard]

What about a Citabria 7ECA with no flaps?

[@Smt_Glaive]

subbed... great vid

[@bobbonordenskiold939]

Very good

[@Sandhills213]

Fantastic.

[@abhishekdev258]

Can someone tell what is the name of that whistling tune at the start of the video?

[@endwood]

I do the total opposite using the elevator to point the machine where I want it to go, gas pedal for speed, could never understand why some use it the other way round!

[@werkmap]

Being a glider pilot with ample experience doing outlandings, thoroughly enjoyed your videos. Thanks for that! One question: you never mention the effect of low altitude wind gradient. The lower your airspeed on approach, the more devastating its effect. Do you have a special reason for that? Are airplanes less susceptible than sailplanes?

[@rhonlerche]

werkmap This exactly why I scrolled through the comments; I am wondering about the same thing!

[@brionwebb3731]

So pretty much flight idle approach?

[@wildbearlodge]

How steep can a steep stabilised approach be? I am building a backcountry mountain airstrip and have a SC with a 160hp Lycoming, VGs and bushwheels. Have trees at both end and I'm wondering what angle of approach I can aim for as not all of them can be cut. I think that the engine out glide for my plane is about 1:6, but is that realistic for approach? Welcome your thoughts...

[@merrywoodaviation3622]

Check out www.supercub.org for great discussions on this...

[@cloudbaseimagingvid]

Great video! What AOA indicator is that?

[@Backcountryaviation]

Not sure actually that was a plane I had only flown for that video before I sold it. It was loud and kind of obnoxious candidly

[@gerryortiz7276]

Where was this shot at?

[@robertmackay4613]

But how does this work in crosswinds?

[@CYOTsNiper]

What's the best way to practice this without the worry stalling close the ground?

[@Backcountryaviation]

I would recommend getting an qualified instructor that is comfortable in that environment.

[@frankus54]

Great work but I can't understand how the wing at 38 knots indicated at 3:29 is not stalled.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+frankus54 there are a couple things going on here. The airspeed indicators are pretty inaccurate at slower speeds so that is part of it. However this plane at gross stalls at 38 and we weren't quite there weight wise. also the plane is allowed to descend and keep the wing unloaded so the speeds can stay low and safe with plenty of practice.

[@MT-iq7ul]

Question, what’s the name of that red and white plane landing at 1:28? Thanks

[@mathesonfraser649]

89’Lincoln Continental that’s a maule m6 or m7

[@mickcraven980]

These vids are great. My friends love them, thanks for posting. Questions for you: Did you have a STOL King for a while? If so, what happened to it? Good plane?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Mick Craven I am not sure what a STOL King is, I have owned carbon Cubs, maules, and Cubs primarily, and done a bunch of instruction in huskies and Cessna 185s. Some of the footage for these was done a long long time ago so there are many cameras used. For the more recent videos it's go pro 4s and Panasonic GH4s. We also have used a canon 5d for many of the shots. Feel free to PM and I'm happy to go into more detail.

[@mickcraven980]

The STOL King probably doesn't compare to those awesome planes you've mentioned, but I'm just curious if you have any thoughts on it. The thread on the Backcountry page looks inactive. On another point, you said you are working on a vid on departures. Can we look forward to seeing that soon? Thanks.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Mick Craven the Stol king looks pretty sweet! I don't know anything about it, but on paper those are impressive numbers! As far as another video we are shifting our focus to trikes. I don't know much about video so these things take me forever.

[@mickcraven980]

She's an elegant design. But the main gear is tall and the wheel base looks narrow in some pics. Do you think that's a problem?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Mick Craven I wouldn't be able to judge without some knowledge. It looks pretty sweet to me

[@francescomurano7505]

awesome

[@metroflyboy86]

Isn't landing that close to stall speed bad if you're in a headwind and the wind suddenly dies? or do you just add five knots for the headwind?

[@Backcountryaviation]

Yes and no. Gust abatement is a concern, but since you aren't dragging it in a burst of power can correct most sinkers, but if you don't load the wing then it isn't that big of a deal. If it is really really gusty then adding a little bit of speed might be appropriate but the important part is not loading the wing and setting yourself up for a stall.

[@johannwiebe5391]

eso es excelente

[@johannwiebe5391]

thankyou for this video

[@CMAenergy]

With the type of aircraft your doing these approaches it is possible to land straight in according to the way you mentioned, but will never work in an emergency landing when flaps are not function-able or you don't have them, These approaches you use will never come close to a side slip approach,, I found a side slip brings a much steeper angle of decent with a possibility of a very steep turn, especially if you have flaps , and holding back on the forward velocity also makes for a very short roll where you can stall it almost when your at ground level, A steep turn if required in a narrow area, you are much better off in any emergency doing a side slip. Especially when your inside turn diameter has to be no more then about 50 feet, very difficult to do properly without a side slip unless you practice, and with any kind of cross wind. I found without a side slip you will have not the same chance of steepness to your approach. Practice side slipping You can't go wrong and will make a much better pilot.

[@MrDogfish83]

Seems like that's outside the scope of this video

[@Aviaten1]

Is this technique possible to use in a Piper Cherokee?

[@cdreid9999]

i dont know but this is a stol plane and a taildragger theyre very different from low wing tricycles

[@Backcountryaviation]

Yep a straight wing is a straight wing

[@mickboyce386]

Very good video, I do disagree about the power off aproaches/ power on aproaches. I was taught to fly by crop dusters or ag pilots as they are called here and all these pilots had over 10,000 hours hill spreading super. they all taught power on approaches. it gave you something to loose and decreased the chance of an engine failure with most engines failing at large power changes ie take off or landing. In my ag years, I always found the power on landing to be more comfortable and safest. Later in Turbines this also helped with the PT6 and using flight idle.

[@cdreid9999]

there are guys who land some stol planes in 100 feet. The average stol plane probably takes 500-600 feet max... im thinking those crop dusters landings take a LOT more ..

[@ronniemackinnon3237]

Question,, what is flight idle in turbine flying?

[@mickboyce386]

@@ronniemackinnon3237 it's running the engine at a point there is no lag to spool up. On the ground you use your prop for speed to taxi. The engine also runs a more constant temp. It's pretty important on short field landings

[@mickboyce386]

It's a setting usually controlled by a lever in aircraft I flew.

[@mickboyce386]

@@ronniemackinnon3237 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bqqbeIVqe6mobck I'm guessing this is what happens when you don't know how to use it. Came up short and lag caught him out.

[@mechanicsandelectronics80]

Hello, how are you I am Ibrahim I work in blacksmithing excellent With a Bachelor of GIS degree I want to work with you

[@Quatft]

re the disclaimer: Where should somone go to acquire instruction from a qualified flight instructor for stol?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+David Price there are a few places, but most require you bring your own airplane. We do seminars that are a decent mix of ground and flight training, mountain flying seminars out of mccall is a big well known outfit as well. Montana by air is another one I send folks to. Feel free to PM me and I can go further in depth.

[@ThomasLeNinja]

My dream is to fly in the back country. I'm in New York State so it's a little bit far from the good stuff XD The cub is my dream plane.

[@cdreid9999]

NY State is mostly country man... no reason you cant...

[@renegavon]

I have a question : with my instructor wed tried at 3000feets to apply what you teach, no power and a flat wing on the horizon, but the sink rate was -1000 on the vario, the plane was near stall so it was not possible to get a vario suitable for landing by pulling back. There is something I'm missing : how can you flare with a near stalled plane without loosing the benefit of this low speed / flat wing approach by pushing forward or putting the power back ? (plane is an ultra-light I.C.P. Savannah)

[@Backcountryaviation]

+renegavon that's probably better via email or phone call. If you follow the links to my website shoot me up and we can chat.

[@stihlnz]

If I may humbly add my 2 cents ... you do need some power. This will vary between aircraft, my Cessna 180 seems to like 1300rpm. Just beat that circuit with touch and goes ... you will find it. If you don't know where your exact stall speed is go to 4000agl and practise. Set up wing slightly elevated up .. hold elevator back and back off power till you find it. Excellent superb video.

[@merrywoodaviation3622]

If it's a Cessna 180 with CS prop, which I also have, I've found it easier to think of power in inches of manifold pressure. 12-14", full flaps and wings slightly aft of horizon for ~500 fpm descent at 1.2 Vso (or 1.3 Vso for greater margin) is typical with a moderately loaded Wagon. More if you're at gross. Pull back on the elevator for 2-4 seconds for a "flare" then wheels touching. The MAF landing method works, and is essentially what Patrick is talking about here. Also, and very critical: Your stall speed will change depending on a/c loading, particularly in one with as wide an envelope as a Skywagon. Therefore you can't use airspeed as an exact performance indicator.

[@stihlnz]

Backcountry didn't say "No" power and did say wing angle "slightly aft", I'm with Merrywood below in my 180. You'll have to play with it power/ wing angle to get that ? approx 500 fpm sink rate. It will be different for each aircraft/engine type. Remember that 500fpm on final has to = 0 fpm on touchdown .. play with it ..feel that prop .. feel the controls get slower and ineffective.

[@andreyfedorov380]

Check my amazing contrail from engines exhaust here!

[@TimDonk]

You forgot to include the most critical part of landing, "seats and trays in an upright position."

[@ericfletcher8454]

Dude, even with the "Cheesy animation" these are great videos. Nicely done. Hit me up and I'll trade ya video work for approach lessons (Hint I do this for a living on TV shows)

[@mqbitsko25]

Pretend you're skydiving.

[@DanFrederiksen]

Hasn't anyone realized it can be taken to vtol? or zero runway. 2 engines, 2 wings, tilt it up enough and bouncy legs.

[@apfelsnutz]

God... the Whistler strikes again.... I like the video. I land like this all the time anyway, have like 600hrs in a C-140...lol. Works for the Navion...

[@alnahm9959]

Stol alaska

[@mickcraven980]

Thanks for your prompt reply. Here's the site www.preceptorair.com/stol-king.html. Also, found this blog page featuring it a few years ago www.backcountrypilot.org/forum/my-new-weird-plane-slats-10476

[@1lllllllll1]

AoA needs better UI. Then it would be useful.

[@dlorr701]

N

[@alexrusrus186]

А мы тут лаптями щи хлебаем

[@user-jn5vb3dh6e]

У меня москвич 412 в гараже, а летаю я только во сне

[@outwiththem]

02:44 You ARE using power to control your angle of descend if you say you are using throttle to control it..geeee...I was a Bush Pilot CFI since 1970's..retired for years..never needed AOA indicators..Never used balloon tires..

[@merrywoodaviation3622]

Do you respect military aviators? How about Naval pilots doing carrier landings? They use specialized AoA indicators as performance measurement instruments. They're not crutches - they simply allow for finer performance margins. Balloon tires are huge game changers for off airport work in terms of saving airplanes and lives.

[@michaelbailey9395]

The disclaimer is good, talking about a variety of options is good, but please do not attempt what they are "teaching" without a very competent instructor telling you that if the engine fails you will likely not make your spot... no mention of slipping to land? really?

[@flexairz]

That could be the topic of an advanced backcountry landing technique.. this is just an informal basic demo.