Backcountry Aviation's STOL Tips (Tricycle Gear Airplanes)

[@toonybrain]

I feel validated watching your tri-gear STOL videos. I “discovered” the same unorthodox short field approach in my Maule. I call it the “gondola” approach and liken it to coming down a mountainside in a gondola - higher turning final, no pitching down with the nose, steady slow speed, gently fluttering toward the runway. By the time I land, I’ve bled off excess energy, then rollout for what seems like 20’. LOL BTW, I love your videos- very inspirational.

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks! I love the term gondola approach we’re accurate description!

[@smallduties8897]

I must say that I have never seen such beautiful recordings of General Aviation. Wide scenery shots were pleasure to watch. Thank You!

[@giantpickle]

I'm doing backcountry flying with my simulator friends today. I'll be doing random deadstick landings in a bush-modded 172. I have 200+ hours in the 172, but this video gave me some great tips on how to fly STOL landings.

[@Aviation101]

I watched the whole thing! Man, I need to start getting into STOL ops. This is awesome! Great video.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+MrAviation101 next time I'm back home let's get together. PM me your info, or would Lindsey still have it?

[@Aviation101]

+Backcountry Aviation my info has changed since then. Is there a good email for me to send it to?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+MrAviation101 [e-mail]

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Backcountry Aviation oops learntolandshort

[@philipburke1653]

Josh did you get the opportunity to view Stevo1Kinevos video with Backcountry Aviation?

[@CoryJohnsonpilot]

I love the short/soft field capabilities of my V-tail Bonanza. It's not a Super Cub, but it also does 170kts in cruise!

[@jenkinsc2200]

Great video. It gives me hope for my 182 in the back country. I've always wanted to fly back country but wasn't sure my 182 with small tires would get it done

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Scott Jenkins I have seen guys in fairly stock 182s squeeze into places lots of guys in "bush" planes would pat themselves on the back for. Sure there are some limitations, but realistically with proper technique and experience everyday planes are pretty Capable in most of the backcountry strips out there.

[@feltav5719]

Dont let that front wheel touch until it gets slow. Reality is... Fit the biggest tire you can fit there

[@curtisgreen7826]

Yes, I was fortunate enough to win the Valdez, Alaska STOL competition in 2006 and 2008 with my C-182 in the heavy touring class. The 0-520 Continental helped out a bit. Curtis Green Wasilla, Ak.

[@daytonasixty-eight1354]

bruh u fukin cool

[@douglasrodrigues332]

I used to have my nose wheel pumped up higher to keep the prop from sucking up gravel during the start up. After doing an engine conversion, and STOL kit, a tail dragged kit was the next thing on my bucket list. The economy took a nose dive about then, and so did my finances.

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

Put a fixed pitch canard on the cowl. Cheap way to hold the nose high and you only lose 2% of range (or can gain if limiting factor was not fuel tank capacity but weight)

[@skycop56]

Great tips. Flying REALLY slow is the key. I can get my C150 to fly just fine at 40kts with full (40 deg) flaps. And don't forget about weight. I aim for minimum safe fuel and nothing but my skinny butt in the plane. Even works at high altitude. I've been to 12,500 twice and last year landed and departed Leadville, CO with the temp 78. Keep the great videos coming.

[@mattf49006]

it'll fly alright with 40 degrees of flap...climbing is another story..there's a reason Cessna went to 30 degrees later..plenty of folks mushed off the end of a runway with 40 down

[@SixStringflyboy]

Because they didn't practice proper go-around technique per the POH. Full power, carb heat cold, flaps to 20, airspeed 55 knots, slowly retract flaps, 65-75 knots to climb out. 40 flaps isn't dangerous. Insufficient training, lack of practice, and complacency are what kill.

[@aarohivijh]

Love the L/Ms with the 40 deg flaps. Like hitting the brakes.

[@whosaidyoucandance]

Another great video - keep them coming, man. Also - glad to see the kinetic energy formula popping up there, very relevant. That velocity squared thing is important, touchdown speed translates to energy and the brakes have to dissipate that energy, it's important to minimise. Good video.

[@michaelkussatz]

Love the video! Very well organized, narrated and shot. It would be cool in your description if you listed the strips where this was filmed.

[@mikerossi8220]

Just started a backcountry course at my school yesterday. Good timing with the video. Can't wait to do some soft fields

[@jbl7092]

I just bought a 152. Definitely need to get a STOL kit!

[@willymakeit5172]

I can’t believe the most recent comment is a year old. Hope you’re still checking this video. I regularly fly my Cessna 150G off a grass strip in Texas with a river and cliff on one end and houses on the other, with a dogleg. The biggest concern are the deer; I’ve never seen so many. Though the book dissuades their use, I like to start with 10 degrees of flaps, yoke all the way back (washboards) and get above deer back height as soon as I can. Then I stay in ground effect and milk the flaps up. The approach is at 65, the best glide speed, and aim just past the dogleg. I use 70 when there is a crosswind. I will try counting potatoes and practice with slower speeds. Thanks for a great video. BTW are you still making new ones?

[@smaze1782]

Yup, great video. I've been struggling deciding if I really need a taildragger. I will be wanting to explore Canada & Alaska eventually and would love to just use a 182 with some bigger tires.

[@trellkennett]

Good video! I agree, tricycle gear aircraft are fine in most backcountry airstrips. I fly an 802 for a living from a major international airport and a trike into airstrips - seems weird but it works well!

[@j.w.perkins6004]

I flew C206 in Central America for several years with 1 prop rock ding in over 400 takeoff/landings

[@Gualdemar]

Good, practial advice. Speed an power use. Flaps. Breaking action. Longer take-off distance than landing one. Only one missing point (with respect of my teaching) obstacles on the final approach or take off area. Great considerations should be taken and it is definitely a go / no-go decision. Excelent!!

[@doc-nobody-glider]

Congratulation, very good footage and excellent explanatory! And practice, practice, and again pratice ….

[@samolotul61]

Fantastic vid guys! If you could only show (like you did before with taildraggers) step by step, how to best land tri gear plane, that would be great! Cheers!

[@nwflyer7197]

After the long interlude from your last video I was going cold turkey!!! Thanks for doing more videos (and your co conspirator too). Keep it going. Hope to see you out in the back country. thanks.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+NWFlyer ha! Yea it took a while to get this footage since I don't have easy access to trikes. Thanks for watching!

[@BetterAircraftFabric]

Very VERY fun; wonderful footage! Thanks for posting, Best Regards from Alaska, where I try to see how much I can push a Citabria in the bush...

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

I hope someone tries to bush a Dash 8 with upsized turbines

[@abstractbrainscans]

Ellenor Malik or just without passengers, and with big tyres 😎

[@creekboy1382]

Very informative. I am jealous of your area. Living here in Alabama I don't think there are many back country opportunities. Sure looks fun!

[@Backcountryaviation]

Ah well you never know. Most of that was filmed in Texas.

[@ljpung]

+Backcountry Aviation 8FD3 has a campground at the end of it. Call first to make sure they don't have a carshow on the grass strip: theraf.org/content/blackwater-airfield-safety-briefing

[@gabrielharris6358]

Backcountry Aviation where in Texas?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Gabriel Harris all over really. I was based out of kaus, but flew literally all over there is just so much to explore there compared to where I am now.

[@gabrielharris6358]

Backcountry Aviation nice! My mom lives in Austin, we went to the Lakeway airpark a while ago. Have you been there? It's a "live with your airplane" community

[@karlkingston2501]

Used to fly into the back country all the time with my father in the 60's in 182, 206 and 207's. Never went in in taildraggers. Only time I was ever nervous was a strip called "Crofoot".

[@blackhawkteam8625]

We have a 175 Skylark, 1960 with the G0 300 175 horse. We are currently putting on a Sportsman STOL kit and bigger tires. Our strip here on the ranch is 1600 feet

[@Backcountryaviation]

My first off airport trike landing was a 175. Sweet plane!

[@blackhawkteam8625]

@@Backcountryaviation I have the sportsman kit on order but do you have any resources for the bigger fork assembly to allow for a bigger tires?

[@Backcountryaviation]

Airframes Alaska sells the air glass mod I believe

[@emcincosflyingadventures5031]

Another nice one Patrick. Even some Maule action in a video about tricycles! Red Creek is a fantastic place, I have a video of that strip on my channel.

[@Trevor_Austin]

After several years (2,500+ hrs) of gliding, glider towing, bush flying I agree with everything in this video.

[@RenegadeADV]

This is the motivation I needed this morning!

[@Backcountryaviation]

👍

[@flynbike]

Terrific! Loved seeing Red Creek, one of my fav b/c destinations.

[@aerospacenews]

Great job guys. And the drone (I assume it was a drone/uas) captured over the "shoulder" shots added both great imagery and context to your points.

[@realulli]

In an earlier video, they said they use two real planes. Drones are way too slow anyway...

[@aerospacenews]

+realulli I don't recall seeing that but if you look at the clip starting at 07:37 there is no way a conventional fixed wing airplane shot that footage. Feels like UAV/drone to me. 08:00 and 08:37 also look like vertical lift machine shot too. Maybe a real helicopter but doubt that in these examples.

[@realulli]

+AeroSpaceNews.com OK, you have a point there. Maybe they used both...

[@maxbootstrap7397]

Great video series!

[@mikerossscuba]

Beautifully done video, chock full o' good tips. What a great skill to learn, opening up all those strips.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+mikerossscuba Thanks! Takes me forever to put together so thanks for the kind words!

[@bryan76016]

Useful information for a good (Army style) short field landing. I didn't see many really slow stabilized approaches. When you see one you'll see short (to zero with wind) ground roll. \

[@davidhames319]

Optimum CG is crucial too. Most GA Airplanes are nose heavy And you sometimes run out of elevator during your flair which makes for a faster touchdown

[@Backcountryaviation]

I agree 100% true. This I’m even more true the more HP/later in their model runs

[@RippedWookie]

Love these videos.

[@adamharrold1951]

7:11 Backcountry Aviation 7 years ago: “until they slap a nose wheel on a Carbon Cub…” CubCrafters: “hold my beer”

[@madisonelectronic]

Before attempting this make sure to install your STC'ed combo pilot seat/porta-potty

[@BrianPhillipsRC]

That was a cool video! Thanks for putting it together

[@lucywucyyy]

theres something really cool about seeing a trike doing this kinda flying

[@Halli50]

Probably the best SEP nosewheel airplane is the FR-172-210. A French-made Cessna 172 with a 210hp engine and a constant-speed prop actually certified with a higher MTOW etc. Not as heavy or fast as the C-182 you could actually take it into C-180 and C-185 territory. I actually AM qualified to comment on this, having flown BN2A Islanders, DHC-6 Twin Otters, Do-228's and Do238's as well as semi-short-fielders like PA-23-250 Aztecs and the Cessna 400-series (C404 Titan and FR406 Caravan II). I currently have access to a Helio H-295 Super Courier C-STOL aircraft and a few fat-tyre ultralights. In my neck of the woods (grass, actually, preciously few trees around in Iceland), I am in short-field heaven! The point emphatized in this video about the approach and touch-down speed is acually the mainstay of short-field operations in ANY aircraft. The practiacality and experience of the pilot will determine if a simple short-field takeoff or a crash report to the authorities is called for. In a nosewheel aircraft you HAVE to be comfortable with how firm the landing strip is, or else you will be writing a lot of why-I-nosed-over reports. Misjudging this in a tailwheel aircraft is even more serious!

[@rogerblew9433]

Very nice Patrick!

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Roger Blew thanks!

[@iloveaviation-burgerclub-a8145]

Good video Sir. Appreciate that!

[@alexandervanwyk7669]

Great tutorial. I just wonder why you didn't specifically mention the importance of Vortex Generators on the wing fronts (which typically reduces the approach by 10 to 15%). I only saw it in the Carbon Cup at 7:20. Thanks a lot.

[@musoseven8218]

Excellent! Thanks for posting.

[@nealhere]

Very cool. I have most of my time in trikes so this is a good call. I did notice larger than usual tires. Is that a must? Love the potato count . I am stealing that and using it Also will practice how slow one can fly ...at 3500 feet and sneak up on that use near the ground

[@daytonasixty-eight1354]

Run as big of tires as you can get away with. Better on the suspension and slightly more prop clearance.

[@daffidavit]

Also, the min. airspeed technique only requires the airspeed to be at its slowest at the last moment. I'm suggesting that you don't need to be at 60kts in a C182 at 1000 AGL, but only at short final. So the trick is to practice timing the airspeed deceleration from high final to short final so minimun float will be assured near the beginning of the runway. Remember, a short field landing, for test and training purposes, presumes a 50ft obstical near the threshold. In many occasions there won't be an obstical to worry about. Also, I like the recommendation in this vid to leave the flaps down until stopped. I always do this. Some people suggest you should raise the flaps after touchdown to have better braking effectiveness. I used to believe this early on but was later taught by a well experienced FAA examiner that leaving the flaps down creates more drag on landing. He also said that since the airplane is "stalled" at touchdown (or should be) all the weight is already on the wheels. So its really an old wives tale that its necessary to raise the flaps after touchdown. It also prevents one from making the mistake of accidently raising the landing gear instead. If you really want to stop short in a C152 or a Sundowner for example, have both pilots push the doors open during rollout and you will stop on a dime, and the nose won't pitch forward either. It's fun to do on a hard surface, just for the heck of it. I don't recomend it on a short backwoods runway however. JMHO

[@BigBlockSpence]

Awesome. I'm always practicing and refining my skills/ techniques. That's what makes general aviation so much fun.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+bigblockjet completely agree!

[@RobBank1985]

Awesome video.

[@wntu4]

A reminder about POH performance numbers. They were obtained by a test pilot in a new plane in perfect shape under condtions designed to obtain the best numbers possible.

[@margaritavillemiller]

Red Creek! Great little strip!

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Aaron Miller I hadn't been there before, and I was mesmerized with the place. It was so different and so neat compared with many of the places we frequent.

[@margaritavillemiller]

Its a nice strip and easy to get to from the Valley. We try to do a little runway maintenance every time we visit. They have a few tools over by the picnic table (we bring our own). What are the specs on that 182? Based in the Valley?

[@diggitydaxton2872]

who else is watching in 2019 where cubcrafters ACTUALLY slapped a nose wheel on a carbon cub

[@lesb3481]

I've always said, **the day they put a nose wheel on a Cub, will be the day monkeys fly out of my butt.** Unfortunately, I'm now deathly afraid to use the restroom or even loosen my belt.

[@ashsmitty2244]

Les B 😂😂😂😂😂

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

@@lesb3481 How're you doing on the digestion?

[@Rv12_pilot]

Diggity Daxton naw man I’m from 2020

[@southjerseysound7340]

They only did it because Maule did it first lol

[@algorithm1193]

I landed a Pilatus Porter on a skyscraper.... In FSX...

[@julians9362]

Thomas Harbauer and i landed my 738 on the golden gate :D

[@coflyer2949]

Thomas Harbauer I landed my a380 on an aircraft carrier

[@jimnew5813]

I landed a 737 on an aircraft carrier..

[@WeslarWaven]

+Jim New Same

[@martijn9568]

Thomas Harbauer I landen my f/a-18a Hornet on a carrier, bad joke, I know

[@HookedOnUtah]

Excellent as always!!!

[@heydonray]

Agree with most, but not all. Potato counts don’t create lift. IAS does. “Feel” is critical and should but the primary tell in most instances, but rotating at a guesstimated x potatos is less informative than x IAS vs rwy remaining and worse, bleeds vital energy if the airplane isn’t ready to fly. So perhaps a blend of both methodologies without completely disregarding IAS is more appropriate?

[@joshuaderstine4133]

Just started flying and I'm tail wheel all the way.

[@pa226pable]

I used to land on dry lake beds and roads in my Tripacer.

[@giantpickle]

What is the flap technique for aircraft with electric flaps? I see that usually they would be moved from 10 degrees to full on rotate, but that is not possible in an airplane with electric flaps, which is common for tricycle gear airplanes.

[@billsmith5109]

Is it code of the west to always pick a few rocks while on the ground?

[@jimsmith1856]

7:21 What a paint job!

[@mikemitchell7570]

Great video!!!!!!!!!!!

[@jaimesarabia9830]

where can i see these videos of followup and landings??? the ones used for this video are amazing

[@VroodenTheGreat]

forgot to mention a slow, low flight down the unpaved strip to check for those aforementioned divets, ruts and cow patties... fly safe -Vroo

[@Backcountryaviation]

+actually that is covered in another part of the series VroodenTheGreat

[@juancaal7046]

VroodenTheGrea

[@Big.Ron1]

I take it you are near Tucson? Beautiful country.

[@baksteen291]

awesome video man, I love it. very good information. keep it up :)

[@Backcountryaviation]

Thanks! I appreciate. Took me a while to get the footage for this one

[@MasboyRC]

Thx for the tips 👍

[@larslake]

A 172 with just a pilot can land under 200 ft without brakes and flaps. It's called the back-side of the envelop or hanging on the prop. Don't try it unless you've got experience in handling the 172 Skylane.

[@pilotguy40]

Been doing off field and rough field landings for years. Got my ticket 1969. Have a 170... My favorite and a 172. I feel I can do things with a taildragger I do not want to try with a Tri gear airplane.

[@edmoore3910]

Love this video..you go cessnas!

[@RedfaJan]

Hi. Real good stuff. One quick question though. How would this techniques apply to turboprop aircrafts, for example, cessna grand caravan?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Redfa Jan the spool lag on a pt 6 is pretty significant, but with experience surely manageable. The straight fat wing is going to act the same, but the weight of the plane means more energy to manage. The More energy there is the further out you have to be in front of the plane so to speak. That is a lot of moment and with a slow spooling engine one better know what they are doing. Feel free to PM if you want to chat

[@RedfaJan]

thanks for the reply. it really makes sense though. its all about experience and knowing what youre doing. like you said, the lag of the turbine really is the big consideration in making decision of what to do next.. i have been flying caravans for the past couple years now, but have just started out to fly in bush areas down here in papua, indonesia.. im sure youve heard about the place before. crazy strips with slopes and terrain all around. id like to chat more with you about the tips and tricks of back country flying. its really useful for what i do now. thanks again for sharing the videos.

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Redfa Jan www.backcountryaviation.com shoot me an email and we can chat. Sounds like you are doing some cool flying!

[@raymondo162]

That was both fascinating and informative...………….

[@mbogulski]

Awesome video. Now I don't feel so bad in my lowly 150.

[@CockatooDude]

Don't feel bad, the 150 is great!

[@douglasrodrigues332]

With the 1960 Cessna 175 STOL I used to own, I'd over-inflate the nose wheel strut to get the prop higher off the ground. After putting a lot of money into the plane, that tail dragger kit that I wanted would have caused my wife to divorce me! I would like to caution that if heavy braking was necessary to get stopped on a short strip, it may be too short to takeoff again without leaving out some weight. I also used to do the run-up while moving so as not to damage the prop. I figured that brake pads were cheaper than props

[@svlgari400]

Just very awesome I love this plane. The Bush cub Plane that Is

[@johnhanna2675]

What about spin training...at altitude? as in what does this airframe say just before the stall

[@ismaelrodriguez2446]

Chulada bonito video

[@rogerblackwood8815]

I can usually put my PA28-140 down in less than 200m, but I need 400m for takeoff if I am 1 up and fuel to tabs, so what's the point of landing any shorter than I can get out of?

[@Backcountryaviation]

Roger Blackwood landing short is insurance mostly. Takeoffs in all but a few experimentals is the most limiting and critical part of any type of flying. In our seminars the takeoff is routinely stressed as such. We also have a takeoff video stressing key points. On our channel.

[@racingwithbigt]

*they do have a nose wheel on a carbon cub :D haha Good video!

[@TegoSuwarto]

Good

[@mathesonfraser649]

On the 172 were those 8.50s All around or just the mains and a 700 on the front

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Matheson Fraser (Moosehunter158) yes they are 8.50s all around

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Matheson Fraser (Moosehunter158) yep! Not sure the stc, but yes 8.50 all around

[@randyvanvliet226]

Thanks for a great, educational video. Not something to try in a low wing LSA, I guess... better stick to grass or pavement.

[@ashsmitty2244]

I love instructional videos on YT 😅

[@alexanderedens4941]

Abdicate. intransitive verb. : to renounce a throne, high office, dignity, or function The king was forced to abdicate. transitive verb. 1 : to relinquish (something, such as sovereign power) formally abdicate a throne. Advocate, you mean?

[@Backcountryaviation]

Not sure I needed the grammar lesson. Why would you think I was talking about renouncing a throne, when I was saying advocate ?

[@nagjrcjasonbower]

Density altitude, weight, cg, experience, terrain, wind, and surface conditions keep them wheels out of the trees!

[@kevinvoge507]

Abdicate vs. advocate clearly not in your POH. I recommend Webster.

[@bonbondesel]

These flaps !! Yeah with a Cessna 172, full flaps, the stall speed is about 33 IAS ! 😲 33 ! Not the standard touchdown speed I aim everyday. So you can come in very slow...

[@mytech6779]

33ias is actually about 45cas in a 172

[@djinn666]

They're still teaching new pilots 60 kias (64 kcas) for short field landings. That's a 19 knot difference.

[@mytech6779]

@@djinn666 that is actually a 15knot difference, and you can't approach right at stall speed or you won't be able to generate the lift needed to arrest the vertical speed. Setting aside margin for gusts and wind-shear of course.

[@djinn666]

@@mytech6779 How is that 15 knots? 64 - 45 = 19. Also ground effect will help arrest the descent.

[@mytech6779]

@@djinn666 ah I missed the cas my bad I used the ias. Another part of the issue is that the airspeed indicator in most C172 simply don't respond with precision at those low speeds. This in combo with CFIs needing to deal with a terribly formed legal liability situation where teaching anything outside of the POH or FAA publications can put their whole career on the line if some former student has an accident 10 years later. (Same as courts applying "strict liability" to manufacturers drove per air-frame insurance from $50 in the 60s to $100,000 in the mid '80s. Strict liability basically holds that you need to foresee the customer doing stupid things and go out of your way to stop them.) On the round out you are loosing forward energy while arresting descent, so you need some extra energy. Ground effect does increase lift a bit, though on a high wing is only significant about 5 feet from touchdown, and GE has no effect on the speed drain from parasite drag (full flaps).

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

tricycle is a lot better than a true taildragger anyday.. a quad is even better in outback.. im talking nose wheels on a carbon cub or taildragger.. we do it

[@johnnyllooddte3415]

i dont have time to bend a prop in an emergency stop

[@rahuldobhal9037]

Thanks for the quality video (channel subscribed :) )

[@AsaelBaez]

Any good places to try in New England, USA?

[@Backcountryaviation]

a good resource for that info is www.theraf.org.

[@johnnybumpous9108]

it always helps to have more hp than you need..

[@Rickinsf]

kudos for the unabashed use of the term "cow turd."

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Rickinsf thanks! 😂

[@brainycheddar]

7:20 - NX Cub has entered the chat

[@POOK-E]

I’m writing from the distant future. They did put a nose wheel on a cub.

[@Mikhail1221]

отличное видео красота)

[@Mikhail1221]

отличное видео красота ))

[@BuceGar]

Lotta things you have to be wary of with a trike, or you could just fly a tail-dragger with nice bush wheels and make your life easy. :-D

[@30769s]

Just use a helicopter 😂 just kidding but I seriously my dad and I gotta get into backcountry flying it sounds epic.

[@josephliptak]

All I need is 1600'-1800' of sod airstrip to get my 150 off the ground and clear powerlines and trees.

[@peanuts2105]

Here is a very old question: PA28 160 or 172 160? Who do you think has the better STOL performance with 2 POB? Thanks in advanced

[@Backcountryaviation]

I don’t think I have enough time in either to give you a credible answer. I will say that a high wing will give you a lot more confidence in places with narrow encroaching vegetation. Even in places where both planes could squeeze in, your sight picture will seem better with a high wing. At least that is my experience. Recently my wife was taxing a citation through a snow plowed area. And she made the comment I wish this was a high wing....

[@graydonsharp5165]

Where in AZ was that?

[@Backcountryaviation]

+Graydon Sharp not 100% sure the name of it, but a quick flight out of phoenix

[@williamroberts3726]

awesome!!!

[@peachtrees27]

God damn that was fun! Get me out of this chair!