Bad Church Experiences: Legalism, Grace vs. Works, and Postmodernism, with Jon McCray

[@germanwulf40]

I think one thing that many Christians tend to forget is that God is sovereign. Yes, God is good, but He is not our personal butler. This quote puts it quite eloquently: "God answers all prayers, but the answer is not always 'yes'."

[@fnjesusfreak]

A great Garth Brooks song goes "some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers"

[@TheBestLife2184]

There's an easy way to stop the Evil Democrats, billionaires, & RINOs. It's at::::: Teach Others Daily. Make those 3 words into 1, add the usual dotCom at the end, & go there. Expect your life to likely hugely change in 10 minutes or less.

[@ToOpen6seven]

What scripture and verse does that come from?

[@fnjesusfreak]

@@ToOpen6seven It's not a direct bible quote.

[@lamarpfleger4108]

Let's get some scripture to disprove opinions of man: Proverbs28v9- He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

[@nutricoach7947]

“If your god is not big enough to contradict you, you have a god that’s too small.” Truth that!

[@leonheart9720]

i agree with this

[@somethingtothinkabout167]

I was just reading that truth itself must be something our own limited self must bounce off or crash into.

[@yw9299]

By that logic you end up Christian

[@TheBestLife2184]

There's an easy way to stop the Evil Democrats, billionaires, & RINOs. It's at::::::: Teach Others Daily. Make those 3 words into 1, add the usual dotCom at the end, & go there. Expect your life to likely hugely change in 10 minutes or less.

[@sarahpfeuffer1396]

I loved hearing that Jon was focused on finding the truth whether or not Christianity was true and the truth led him to Jesus. That is powerful. I hope non believers will hear that.

[@Weissguys6]

Sadly nonbelievers have many misconceptions. So many of us were hard-core skeptics who would have loved to continue on in our old life...... but once we did hard research- There was no turning back.

[@roqsteady5290]

The problem is that whilst you might think you are making a hard headed search for the truth, underneath it all it is really just an exercise in confirmation bias. Your subconscious hopes, fears and desires are a much more powerful force than you give them credit for. And isn't it a nice pat on the back, when you indulge in such an exercise of belief examination and come to the very conclusion you wanted to reach in the first place?

[@sarahpfeuffer1396]

@@roqsteady5290 if this were completely true then we would always find excuses around difficult painful decisions we don't like. But we know this is not the case. Jesus has called you and me to crucify our flesh that means to turn away from the desire we have to be lord of our life and to make him Lord of our life. This means we put aside the "my will be done" and replace it with "Jesus, your will be done" . This goes against our human nature.

[@brianl2595]

Well said, @Sarah Pfeuffer

[@roqsteady5290]

@@sarahpfeuffer1396 It is demonstrably very much in accord with human nature to bow to authority, as it is a theme that runs through many religions, if not all of them. For instance, the word "Islam" means submission to the will of Allah. Clearly then, Christians are not the only ones that seek comfort and guidance from a father figure that gives the illusion of a guiding hand through the difficulties of life. If you really want to focus on finding the truth, which not everyone does, you have to go a lot further than just reaffirming the faith that by a geographical and historical accident you happened to be born into. Today we have many tools available for finding out how the universe really works (from science) and for finding out what likely happened in the past, in secular history that is not distorted by the preconceptions and biases instilled by all religions. But to make use of these sources you have to throw out the entirety of the indoctrination instilled into you from your culture and start with a blank slate. That can be a painful process, but it is a lot more honest than taking a circular path that ends up where you started. This in any case is what "non believers" tend to consider when they read posts such as yours.

[@stlouislord28]

Those churches that say “your life is going bad so what sin are you committing?” are akin to Job’s friends

[@rebekahguilder602]

Yes! And God showed up just to declare how wrong Job's friends were.

[@TheBestLife2184]

There's an easy way to stop the Evil Democrats, billionaires, & RINOs. It's at::::: Teach Others Daily. Make those 3 words into 1, add the usual dotCom at the end, & go there. Expect your life to likely hugely change in 10 minutes or less.

[@lilmisspeace]

I had church leaders tell me that my husband would not abuse me if I was a good wife and gave him what he wanted... Victim blaming at its finest! He wanted to be abusive and cut me down any time I had any form of success and he wanted to treat me like a whore in the bedroom (literally, as he had been with whores before we were married and told me he wanted that from me)...

[@tinasimpson9768]

@@lilmisspeace I’m sorry 😢. This is such a toxic teaching in the church

[@lilmisspeace]

@@tinasimpson9768 thank you ❤ it took a lot of effort and counselling for me to admit that my husband was behaving as badly as he really was; I was very brainwashed. But I am now a theology student in a great bible college, and I'm about to be an official member of a very healthy church! I am able to relate to people in a deeper way because of the suffering I went through, so it's really a case of "what the enemy meant for harm, God is using for good."

[@daviittoju]

Grace can be explained as, God giving us what we do not deserve And Mercy as, God not giving us what we deserve.

[@dingotomtom]

Yes!! That's how it's been explained to me too

[@jaquirox6579]

Those two together is the Gospel! ♥️

[@soulawakenskintherapies9765]

Both yourself Alisa, and Jon have been so helpful during my new walk with Christ. I was brought up as an athiest and in a household that was very against and hateful towards Christians. Because I have a very intellectual and logical mind so I really appreciate apologist channels. Thank you to both of you ❤

[@PjotrII]

"You have a very intellectual and logical mind so you really appreciate apologist" - here is the logical problem I found with that. An apologist is one who have DECIDED what an outcome is, and then tries to find arguments that support that outcome. Scientists on the other hand tries to find the best explanation for some event, it doesn´t decide the outcome before the test. Apology is therefore less intellectual and logical than science. If you had a Muslim apologist, he would "come" (have come) to the conclusion that Islam is 100% true, and then pick 20 arguments that might support it. The risk the Muslim apologist comes to a TRUE conclusion is therefore low, same with a Christian one.

[@nobleprince1238]

@@PjotrII Glad you said "best explanation for some event". Ah, therein lies the issue...So you mean science is chasing events it knows NOTHING about their origin? What is the "best explanation" for what happens to humans when humans they die? Simply become dust? What do scientists do with people with people like Hugh Ross, Alistair McGrath, John Lennox, JP Moreland? Wish they never existed? "BIG BANG model describes how the universe expanded from an INITIAL STATE OF HIGH DENSITY AND TEMPERATURE, and offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena, including the abundance of light elements, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation, and large-scale structure" (source wikipedia) PLEASE what is the COMPREHENSIVE EXPLANATION for the origin of the HIGH DENSITY AND TEMPERATURE?

[@PjotrII]

​@@nobleprince1238 I hope you cool down, and then let´s have a serious discussion! So let´s start from the core (that many misunderstand), science does NOT say things!!!! Science is a method of trying to get the truth of some matters. I say try, because, we cannot always test all things. Scientists use science (the methods) to try to know what is true. Scientists NOT science interpret the data, and makes plausible conclusions... sometimes they can be retested, questioned, retested... when done so, and proven, they are called a theory, when we have a good explanation, but haven´t proven it yet, it is a hypothesis. My mother language is not English, so I don´t understand the "knows nothing about their origin". What happen to humans who dies? Scientific methods can be applied to the things we can test.... so yes, we do know that a body starts a decomposition. And science can study how that progresses. If there is a soul, science would fist have to be able to verify/test that, and then it could do tests, and give explanations on what might happen to souls. But to my knowledge souls cannot be proven. So scientists cannot study that. I have no clue what scientists think or want with other people. But in science itself, it is generally seen as good that people question and have different ideas... this causes in the end, that theories/hypothesis that someone suggests, can be even better tested. John Lennox is great! If some people (scientist) claim that the moon is attached to the earth by an enormous metal chain... and no person has ever photographed it, or said where it would start... scientists would quite fast loose interest in that question. To be able to test/discuss that possibility further, one would have to give some evidence. If that was given, scientists WOULD try to test that. Note, that you put together your thoughts and Wikipedia in the end! Wikipedia: "offers a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena" You said: "COMPREHENSIVE EXPLANATION for the origin" Now, they/wikipedia, scientists do NOT CLAIM to know the explanation for the origin! They - Wikipedia writers claim that scientists have a comprehensive explanation for a broad range of observed phenomena. That is a VERY different claim... no claim about from what/where the big bang came. In other words, the microwave background can be explained by a enormous fast expansion (data we can observe). It would explain why the radiation is so even. In other models created to try to simulate a slower expansion, the heat distribution would be more uneven. Just to add more, if we one day find a better explanation of why the heat is so evenly spread, SCIENCE has not said how it was.... scientists made conclusions to the most plausible explanation (in their knowledge) based upon observed data.

[@nobleprince1238]

@@PjotrII Thank you for you concise reply. For one it's interesting you admire John Lennox, but make no comment about the other 3 people. In any case, given your defense of the scientific method and your admission of the limitations of science, can you convince me of why I need science to tell me I have a soul? When did science become the arbiter of truth? If science doesn't know where initial density and cosmic temperature come from why should I wait for it to discover evidence by which it can prove that a human soul exists?

[@PjotrII]

​@@nobleprince1238 Of the people you mentioned, I don´t agree that much with Ross conclusions (and have therefore watched him less). McGrath can be good, but I think Lennox is the most intelligent of those, resonates with how I am thinking, logical and easy to understand. Moreland is unknown to me. You don´t need science to convince you that you have a soul if you believe that. You are free to believe anything that you want. Science role comes in when we want to know how things work, we want details, deeper understanding. So there is no need for a science in that sense. If we one day would be able to "spot" a soul it might be another matter of interest. My first post was a critical analysis of the claim that "a intellectual person likes apologetics". Don´t understand me wrong, there are apologetics that I like too, but to be intellectual, one must know the difference between science and apologetics. Both apologetics and scientists could use the same methods, but there is a risk of an apologetic to be more wrong than a scientist, because they start with a predefined answer. In the end it would come to that is the question IF the preposition happened to be true (like a good guess). Like if scientists would think that water might boil near 100 degrees C. In a way they have an idea (but it is not a preposition for the majority!) They want to TEST if their own claim is true. They boil water and decide that using 4 differnt termometers is a safe way to get good result. The boil, and volaa, water boils att 100 degrees. One scientists wants to be sure, and asks for 5 other scientists to do the same test. Results come back and 4 of them reports 100 degrees, however one of them from Norway reports 98 degrees. There is now some questions... either the hypotesis of water boiling at 100 C is partly/fully wrong, or the test became wrong of some reason. They ask the Norweigan to do a new test... same result, 98 degrees... could his instruments be wrong or is there something they need to figure out. A Himalayan scientist reports that he also have made the test, and he has done 20 tests, he describes how he got it so others can check.... he came to 94 degrees??? * Science did not say water boils at 100.... scientists said that. When they did not know that pressure (height from water level) changes the boiling temperature, the rersult seemed wrong, but after they figured it out, they found a new solution... the hypothesis was basically right but it needed to be added about pressure to make it a theory. Scientists create their methods, and our knowledge is limited, therefore there is no 100% guarantee of the outcome being 100% true. There can always be factors that we don´t have knowledge of. That said, science is so far the best method to determine how things work. Also if you had a preposition that water boils at (let´s say 98 degrees), it´s not totally false, but it is not the answer. You could then claim that the Norweigan test shows that YOUR idea was right, and then ignore the results of the other tests. Science again would try to deal with all data gathered, and as I claimed, then have a better chance of getting the truth. That said, as in this example, the 98 degrees is partly true (in some situations)! This is what i ment by apologetics having a preposition and possibly getting wrong, instead of being open and neutral, that the scientific method is built to do. Again, while science do not measure things it can´t measure, the opposite would be that we believe ANYTHING without evidence, which is not a world I would like to live in.

[@LouisaWatt]

I have a church friend who suffers anxiety about coming because her previous church was so awful. People need stuff like this to help them heal. Thanks both Jon and Alisa 🙂

[@TheBestLife2184]

There's an easy way to stop the Evil Democrats, billionaires, & RINOs. It's at::::::: Teach Others Daily. Make those 3 words into 1, add the usual dotCom at the end, & go there. Expect your life to likely hugely change in 10 minutes or less.

[@vickieevans2600]

I am the same way

[@LouisaWatt]

@@vickieevans2600 I'm truly sorry to hear it. People can let us down, God never will.

[@Smarty2able]

I'm so tired of hearing the "anxiety" card. I want to confront these convos in a gentle way because it's an excuse we use to not obey God. I have a loved one with mental illness and it's very difficult to do the daily activities when you are depressed and anxiety.

[@smalltownmomma8024]

Completely related to your friend, you’re absolutely right! Praise God for what Jon and Alisa are doing 🙌🏻

[@richardfrerks8712]

My Church is open.. Praise the Name of Jesus Christ!!

[@julesanaplans4162]

You mean your church building is open. The church is the people who are filled with the Spirit. That has never closed.

[@patriothippie5881]

You have such a wide variety of guests Alisa I love it ! I liked your new book by the way Another Gospel. I like Jon's channel by the way too and find both of your content to be engaging.

[@millejef20]

Alisa - thanks so much for walking humbly, yet defending the faith! It's a huge blessing to me and my Christian walk. I've grown up in the church, but have had many moments where I've teetered. I truly think you're being obedient to Christ, and I appreciate your posture in how you interview and treat everyone. This was a great interview, but so are many others!

[@prettyandstuffff]

Love both your channels!!!! So cool to see you collaborating! May the Lord bless your ministries!

[@legomaestro2079]

A friend of mine stumbled onto this at random and shared it to me. Thank you so much for this. It's totally untangled a literal year-long problem of mine in terms of committing to the faith, and yeaaaaaup I know the thing with the prosperity Gospel. My word, who doesn't? So much to digest here, definitely following McCrays' channel and God Bless ye both.

[@Baba_Wawa]

I am ecstatic you brought on my boy John! I absolutely adore my brother in Christ & have so much respect for the work you both are doing! I would love to see you interview Daniel Apologetics & David Wood! Keep up the great work my precious sister! May the grace & peace of Jesus be with you all!

[@dollymadison2397]

This is one of the very very best conversations, of ANY topic, I've ever heard.

[@keeleykesterson2960]

I agree 💯!

[@Mary_Kraensel]

Thank you, Ms Alisa!! I really appreciate you having Mr McCray on. I actually learned something about engaging people from an opposite perspective. Knowing where to start will go a long way towards helping me speak with them better.

[@Weissguys6]

So many, including myself, have been blessed by Jon’s KZbin channel. He, David Wood, Vocab Malone, and Sam Shamoun (sp?) when combined with Alisa and her book Another Gospel have really helped me with my journey in Christ.

[@juanitadudley4788]

Pretty good list. I'm not as familiar with Vocab Malone and Sam Shamoun although I've seen them in videos once or twice. I bet you will love Mike Winger if you are not already familiar with him.

[@christianuniversalist]

Vocab has done great work exposing the fraud of the black Hebrew movement

[@Catcatcat299]

They all have their specialties it seems.

[@juanitadudley4788]

@@Catcatcat299 If you're looking for apologists who are more broad, I would suggest Mike Winger, Jon McCray (whaddo you meme) and Allan Parr (the beat). Mike Winger does long videos and Jon's and Allan's are typically shorter. Another good channel would be Unbelievable.

[@ronbridegroom8428]

I think that one of the underlining problems that causes all these issues is that apparently the Church does not teach Biblical truth anymore

[@debbiebayles1706]

WORD!

[@roqsteady5290]

I reckon that is lucky, given what is actually written in the bible.

[@dingotomtom]

@@SimonWoodburyForget yes

[@TheBestLife2184]

There's an easy way to stop the Evil Democrats, billionaires, & RINOs. It's at:::::: Teach Others Daily. Make those 3 words into 1, add the usual dotCom at the end, & go there. Expect your life to likely hugely change in 10 minutes or less.

[@TheBestLife2184]

@@SimonWoodburyForget It's all backed with top sources like the top Freemason, a former elite banker, many doctors, the former head of the FBI in Los Angeles, the top music conglomerate CEO, much video evidence, and much much more.

[@claycasassa4757]

I grew up in Bill Gothard's legalist ATI/IBLP cult, where the definition of grace was literally, "The desire and power to do God's will," i.e. "For by the desire and power to do God's will are you saved," which is the exact antithesis of Ephesians 2:8-9. This stuff breaks my heart, because I know how corrosive and traumatizing it is and how much it twists people of good will.

[@reedermh]

I had a bad experience with a group of Gothard followers who started coming to our church. They demanded their own separate Sunday School class (because, Heaven forbid, their children associate with anyone else's) and were pushing homeschooling as the ONLY way to raise children (at a time when the church was trying to start its own Christian school). Having been in two prior church splits I didn't hang around to see a third. (The Gothard folks eventually left, but now the church has gone into hardcore Reformed theology with the 9Marks bunch.)

[@one-newman7657]

God is rich in mercy: without mercy there would be no grace. Mercy withholds the very thing we deserve: Gods anger & wrath sin has stored against us. Grace gives those who call out for Gods mercy the very thing we don't deserve Gods free gift of salvation that cost Jesus everything. G/ods R/iches A/t C/hrist E/xpense = grace

[@claycasassa4757]

@@reedermh Sounds about right

[@celticmist14]

BA I am not sure who e are ? Are they a religious group

[@Summer-sc1ph]

Alisa, I really appreciate you sharing that some days you question if we're all crazy and if it is indeed all true because I have recently felt alone in those thoughts. I always come back to things like the cosmological argument and the Bible, but it's nice to know I'm not the only one who needs reassurance from the beginning sometimes. Great interview 👍🏻

[@jeffrohm776]

Alisa, such great stuff. Jon is great dude. Thank you for what you are doing! Such a great encouragement and great topics you tackle with biblical discernment and faithfulness. I wonder if a video topic idea on "Decontructing vs. Deconverting" would be a good one? Is it the same? Is it really possible to De-"convert"? And what are some of these new platforms now that help people Deconstruct? Obviously many (and I would tend to be in this camp) would tend to say it's not possible to De-Convert because it just means you weren't truly a Christian in the first place. That goes over like a lead balloon because I do believe some people geniunely look back and believe they were sincere at the time...so it feels unempathetic to view it that way... but it can reveal one's understanding of God, salvation, sovereignty etc. That is a loaded one I know! I think De-Constructing is a little different. Evaluating the "construction" of one's faith is good for every believer in their journey. Grace is a gift bottom line first so it feels too simple for some (although I don't love the word "transaction" either when skeptics use that as like a business deal...I would spin in more as a gift "exchange" (stealing from Luther), his righteousness for our unrighteousness). So we need to be challenged to make sure we believe and why. I don't like it when so many Christians just coast with it from growing up in it (which I did too) and almost take blind faith too far as a lazy approach. But when I hear about people's official Deconstruction, it really is just a cover for moving from one set of beliefs to another (i.e. what's one's own definition of love and truth is etc.) whether it becomes progressive chrisitianity or even atheism as their landing spot. It's still a worldview one is buying into or they wouldn't be moved by some meaning or purpose in it. So why do we let people off the hook as if it's just about their story of "getting away from so-called toxic classic Christianity and it always puts Christianity in the defense position. I'd like to hear more of them not defend from a position of negativity but what are they moving to that is so compelling and why? The more I listen I am very sensitive to what someone is going through and they may need time for sure. But more and more I have a hard time buying long-term the explanations of... "this one belief or tragedy pushed me away"...or "I'm in a season of doubt or process of deconstruction" or "God is love" is all I need. I guess that's part of defending Christianity-- it always seems like the burden of proof is directed one way. Interesting and helpful stuff. Appreciate ya and God Bless!!

[@mariejackson2958]

Hello Alisa and Jon... I just want to say that was an amazing conversation. God bless you both, continue you to educate us, with the message of Truth

[@nanettie]

Thanks, both of you, for doing this terrific video.

[@mechelledesigns]

Glad to now know Jon’s name finally. I often ask my daughter did you see the Whaddo meme guys video? 😂

[@dollymadison2397]

Lol. I used to just call him "Mr Meme" lol

[@ChoveyLetsPlay]

Great interview! Extremely thankful for both channels

[@PastorBrianTubbs]

This is a great discussion which touches on a lot of important issues that many people - in and out of the church - wrestle with. Thank you for doing this, Alisa.

[@Jacques.Smith_]

Alisa, you always have the best guests on. You are one of the warriors my friend. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. By the look of things...we will see one another soon and in the presence of Jesus. Irrespective of these dark days, our King remains firmly in control. May God bless and keep you and your loved ones.

[@salsafeynix]

TWO OF MY FAVES liked before watching

[@4624Denise]

Oh, dear Jesus; people helping people deconstruct; this just breaks my heart. I can sadly and heartbreakingly see our deconstructed son and daughter-in-law being ready to do something like this.

[@flowerpower3618]

What do you mean?

[@timfirst3536]

@Denise What do you mean?

[@shadyabrown-hall5955]

This conversation is so great and needed. I pray alot of who listen who have had wild rules pushed on them like... You can't go to the movies. You can't eat Lucky Charms, ect... it should be about a relationship with Christ and not following alot of rules. I watched a cute movie on Netflix last night called A Week Away about a boy who lost both of his parents tends to get into trouble and is told he'll go to juvie or he can go to a church Summer camp. He agrees to go to this camp because he doesn't want to go to jail. Him being a non Christian at this camp is fully welcomed by the staff and campers and they could of cared less about his past and bad behavior record. Long story short the boy is influenced by everyone and finds love and belonging from the kids and staff at this camp and starts to change his ways. What I'm trying to say is that just like in this film we need to approach people with love and belonging because that's how Jesus approaches us as no matter our past. Great conversation guys 😁

[@kangminleetv]

Wow this collab is more exciting than Avengers Endgame

[@Catcatcat299]

Nice to see you here, too.

[@stevenrogersfineart4224]

No joke !

[@erinwilliams838]

Man...great stuff.. the love of truth really shines in you two.

[@SpiritualWhiplash]

Nailed it!!! Wow! Thank you both!

[@samuelbesttshivuadi655]

This conversation is incredible 🔥🔥 thank you guys

[@TheCountofToulouse]

His story isn't exactly like mine but its close. I wrestled with so many of the same things he did, though was not fortunate in the knowledge he had access to, it took me a bit longer. I was listening to him explain all this in the background while doing something else and was very impressed with his understanding and steadfast approach to LEARNING about the LORD and staying on the path. I had to go to his channel and sub, probably gonna share it with others. Thanks for having this man on!

[@ptl316]

Thank u Alisa, thank u Jon.

[@cant_seem_to_get_a_handle]

Thanks Alisa and John. I love watching both you guys! ❤😊

[@ibperson7765]

0:00 Intro 2:00 Mccray’s background and first church experience (including 4:00 Lucky Charms) 5:42 How did he return to seeking? (including 6:48 Kalam cosmological argument) 13:46 How do you define/describe Grace and transactional gospel? 25:22 Deconstruction 38:00 Relativism and Truth 47:37 Closing

[@EternalDiet]

Thank you both for your ministries and the clarity you bring to a lot of confusion and lies and misleading concepts about the gospel and the Word.

[@aggressivehandshakes8059]

Love is not a feeling! Truth!

[@one-newman7657]

In love is an emotion genuine love is a foundation simply put the bible says God is love! Christ is the chief corner stone of that foundation

[@aggressivehandshakes8059]

@@one-newman7657 "In love" is a term we apply to lustful attraction, an inappropriate title for something that makes us feel good. You can not be "in" love, you must be Love. To Love is to die. We are the worst of all of Gods creation and yet YHVH sent His only begotten Son, first of all creation, to die for us. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Feelings change but Love is eternal.

[@one-newman7657]

@@aggressivehandshakes8059 1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

[@aggressivehandshakes8059]

@@one-newman7657 Joh 15:13 KJV Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

[@one-newman7657]

@@aggressivehandshakes8059 The emphasis of this scripture is actually (Jesus) born to die for the sins of the world conquering death raised on the 3rd day according to the scriptures. Jesus did call his disciples friends but he is never reduced as being our buddy.

[@clydekimsey7503]

speaking of legalism, Josh McDowell once said "rules without a relationship equals rebellion." This is true on a vertical as well as a horizontal place, such as kids/parents

[@danielcreed2418]

Wow! This was awesome! Learned a lot about works and Grace. Thank you this enlighten video.

[@paigedinsmore3865]

Thank you, Alisa, as always... I just learned that you are coming to speak at the church we attend in June! AtheyCreek Christian Fellowship in West Linn, Oregon! Thank you Jon. Such an important topic.

[@augustlgarcia1979]

I listen to your church online from PA. Love the teaching. What a blessing of a church you have!

[@dancherry2343]

I really like how you all just come together like this, it's amazing

[@sydneymartin7638]

So enjoyed the discussion here and the truth shared! Discovered Jon McCray's KZbin videos a while back. Look forward to every new post and the content presented! You two together are the best thing I've watched in some time! Thank you for doing what you do! This is so encouraging to those just trying to "walk the walk".

[@megamind8901]

Whhat do yaa meeeeemee!!

[@melindamercier6811]

I’d have a hard time interviewing him saying “What do you mean?” and not immediately facepalming after I asked that. 😂

[@Barbaracoyle]

Have a Blessed week

[@jasonbryan9056]

Hello how are you doing 😊😊

[@larrywaddell7332]

Since our culture is primarily secular and atheistic, addressing the culture is debating atheism.

[@michaeldriscoll2169]

Jesus said a new commandment I give you that you love one another as I have loved you💕💕💕

[@larrybedouin2921]

That is a summary statement that is also found in the OT.

[@lamarpfleger4108]

Wait a minute, I thought we don't have to keep those old commandments cause Jesus did it all on the cross or that the law was nailed to the cross!? What gives?

[@larrybedouin2921]

@@lamarpfleger4108 There is no such thing as cheap grace. The law of God was never meant for salvation in any dispensation. The sanctuary service (the feast laws) was a substitutionary form of Atonment, until Christ would come and fulfill those oblations with his own blood at the cross, forever ending the sacrifice and the oblations of the Mosaic covenant with his one perfect sacrifice, forever ending the shadows and the sacrifices of animals. If there was a law that could make a man righteous, then Christ would not have had to die for our sins. The law was given (and later codified on two tables of stone) to man to show him of his sins, which is the transgress of the law of God. Jesus did not come to destroy the law, but to write them on our hearts, where he always meant for them to be. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision 👉by faith, (not by the law) and uncircumcision 👉through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. {Romans 3:30-31} When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?” She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” {John 8:10-11} ^ Her Grace is conditional upon her (repentance) sinning no more. Sin is the transgression of the law. And the Lord said, "If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should OBEY you. But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our 'duty' to do. {Luke 17:6-10} ^ There are consequences to that servant who does not obey and does not do his duty. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole 'duty' of man. {The Preacher 12:13}

[@21joerice]

i paused the video and read Romans 1-3. Saw it through fresh eyes. Thank you.

[@lisaklempel8565]

These topics are so important, and this is really helpful and timely for me. Thank you.

[@LaurenFrancesHair]

William lane Craig and the Kalam argument changed my life and my husbands. I am so grateful for his work.

[@jodeedugger9807]

I have Bipolar disorder I believe in the healing power of God but he doesn’t always heal you on this earth but he will definitely protect you guide you and help you with whatever illness you have. He has helped me so much with good doctors counseling meds a good part time job and so that is what I believe he can heal but not in the way we always want too

[@karricompton]

I so enjoy both of your YT channels. Thanks so much for what you do for the body of Christ.

[@alicejump2290]

This was so eye opening! Truth is true even if you feel differently! Jesus said “I am, the way, the truth and the life…..” no matter what you feel, think, or worship! I found Jon about a year ago and have been encouraged by his straight forward message’s! Thank you both for sharing that church experiences however damaging and negative don’t have to destroy faith! Blessed and safe days!vh

[@psalm37v4]

I attended several legalistic churches in the early 2000s. I didn't realize until later that one of them was Purpose Driven (or as I call it, purpose drivel). The pastor was not to be questioned and doing so was tantamount to questioning God, cliquey staff (I served on the worship team), and "do as I say, not as I do." I was accused of being demon possessed and told I HAD to submit to their version of "biblical counseling" which meant memorizing and reciting anywhere from 10 to 20 bible verses weekly, some that didn't even apply to my situation. I finally left after two years and was again accused, this time of "sinning" because I left without asking the Pastor first. They sent out a letter telling the entire congregation what happened (they did this every time someone left). The Pastor also told his congregation to inform him if they saw me. They even tried to obtain my apartment number and phone, so they could call me. My landlord told me about this and said they were denied. THANK GOD.

[@KathyakaNina]

Love you both brother Jon and Sister Alisa. So glad God brought me to both of your channels I’m loving apologetics and great to learn from you on how to defend the faith and being aware on things like progressive Christianity and how to see things from a biblical lense. God bless you both!

[@vinauttv7167]

Great video! Alisa and Jon, thank you very much.

[@missymurphy9996]

Misreading Scripture though Western Eyes: Removing Cultural Blinders to better understand the Bible- E.Randolph Richards is the book Jon is talking about.

[@yourheinness9275]

I have found a great new series to watch its called The Chosen.

[@joshuam.1240]

I love the show also. Tomorrow is Ep2 of Season 2!!

[@systemrevolt7309]

Isn’t that a Mormon interpretation?

[@Kanjiro.D]

@@systemrevolt7309 no

[@haroldseah306]

@@systemrevolt7309 I don't think so, but they do use the LDS's set for filming apparently.

[@allismama]

@@systemrevolt7309 no they are just using their sets. If you watch Dallas talk he mentions how he got to use the sets for his series

[@Breadbreakers]

It's definitely a fine balance between leaning into hypergrace, versus falling off into works-based salvation. On one hand scripture clearly requires actions that support and prove out our genuine faith (James), on the other, the very clear and sobering warning against turn ing the work of Christ into some form of meritocracy (Romans).

[@dingotomtom]

yes, well said. Sometimes it's hard for people not to go from one extreme to the other

[@gaynorkelly9413]

I think people forget the third person of the Trinity....the Holy Spirit which indwells us when we accept Christ. He is who inspires us to want to do/be better, which sometmes leads to wanting to be a 'perfect' Christian leading to legalism and defining other Christians by OUR standards (politics ugh) and sometimes to missionary work and social justice forms (?progressive??). I'm sure God smiles down on His big kids finding their way on the lifetime journey of becoming more like Him. We love to pontificate with all our "knowledge" but God KNOWS the plans He has for us....and love is clearly laid out in Corinthians....patient, kind, does not envy, does not boast, is not proud, does not dishonour others, not self-seeking, not easily angered, keeps no record of wrongs, does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, hopes and perserveres. Knowledge puffs up. Love builds up. Never seen the Bible as complicated - we complicate it because of ego. How is the Bibles version of love (even to your neighbour who may look, act differently to ), be the pervue of "progressive, post modern etc etc" Christian and not the goal of ALL Christians?

[@moparmarkstpac]

We are saved by grace thru faith after that the just shall live by faith! The Holy Spirit will never walk us into sin but He will walk us in love. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God.

[@gwengwen4535]

I love that he relates to the truth through philosophy class. Same. And I was raised in church and church school!! I loved that opportunity. Actually did my paper on abortion and got an A+ from my professor!!

[@daughter_of_yeshua]

I love Ray comforts argument for God when evangelizing atheists. He says "how do you know this building had a builder? Because buildings don't build themselves right? Its the same with creation, creation couldn't create itself." That's the strongest argument i have heard thats the simplest for God.

[@vivahernando1]

But somehow God doesn’t need a creator …. I hate to tell you but the atheists that have heard of Ray Comfort, we think he is a joke.

[@ronaldkulas5748]

I am 68, and I have noticed in the past 5 to 10 years a huge push toward cult-like behavior at my church; by that I mean devotions, ostentatious piety, etc. Obviously, I am Catholic, but I just returned from Mass and I found no peace there. It seems a handful of people in our church are trying to dictate the congregation's behavior....we have to pray the rosary, we have to do this devotion, we have to go to this seminar, blah, blah, blah. IMO, I think this is coming from EWTN (a Catholic TV network), and it basically is a media that encourages fanatical, pious behavior. IMO, it is the "tyranny of the weaker brother"; by which I mean these people have a faith that has to be embellished with all sorts of "extra things", and they demand that others do the same. I have went to my Church for 30 years, and I find myself not wanting to go. For the past year I have been also going to a Baptist Church after I go to Mass, and I feel very comfortable and satisfied there. Truly, IMO, I never knew the Gospel until the past 3 to 4 years.

[@narcissistinjurygiver2932]

beware of antichrist Saul of Tarsus. Keep the commandments for it is the whole duty of man.

[@narcissistinjurygiver2932]

@Fidem in Christo the other 39 writers who all taught men to obey the law's God commanded us to obey

[@zena7006]

You've been a Christian for at least 30 years, but just a few years ago, you began to know the gospel? Why not pick up a Bible or search the internet?

[@narcissistinjurygiver2932]

@Fidem in Christo i reject the ones from antichrist Paul. you can't hold to both

[@narcissistinjurygiver2932]

@@zena7006 what you are saying is that you are not under the law. God says different

[@dollymadison2397]

DEFINITELY have to check out "What do you meme". Jon is SUCH a blessing!

[@Johannesburg777]

I went to a church that, while doctrinally sound, exhibits elements of legalism among its community. So there were people who didn't own televisions, the church as a whole didn't permit dancing, and there were unsaid customs where women became housewives once they had kids and got married, and I noticed other attitudes among those in the church community that came off as cold and unloving. I think it happens a lot in churches because, while they're well-meaning in wanting to preserve the truth of Scripture, find it difficult to translate this in to love.

[@TGuard00014]

If they didn’t permit dancing did they just ignore 2 Samuel 6?

[@cassandra3180]

Sounds exactly like my old church..was it Baptist by any chance??

[@unicachula2510]

That's how I was taught no dancing, no worldly music( which I'm ok with because this generation is just awful with the music now) no talking to sinners or being around them when I know I am one myself and we are supposed to love the broken and lost and help them by telling them of Jesus. Also that we need to be delivered at all times for any big or small situation we are in because it's demons that are in us. Even after we have been saved. The list goes on and on.

[@zerospacer]

"the narrow gate": Avoiding the blasphemy of works to the left, and the cheap grace on the right which denies regeneration and fruit which is evidence of the Spirit.

[@Vlabar]

I'm thankful that I recently found both of your podcasts.

[@777igg]

Last July an elderly man that was visiting our church because he said his church closed for the pandemic and he got mad at his pastor The last day he was there we were having a lunch for the pastor’s grandma and he was inviting me to his church telling me how good the people are they do this they do that they don’t do this they don’t do that I guess you have to kind of watch that so he invite an I visited one evening and right away I noticed the women were not wearing pants no make up or jewelry and there was a big Acts 2:38 verse across the sanctuary I recognized right away what kind of church it was then I was starting to think what was he doing at our church I was vary upset I can’t judge the hearts of all the members I believe here are many in churches like that really are seeking Jesus Christ and he reveals himself to them an slowly leads them out!

[@fnjesusfreak]

Oh geez, Oneness Pentecostals.

[@allthingsthroughhim3856]

Awesome conversation. This is SO, SO relevant to not just progressive Christianity but to new age doctrine and our secular world in general, which, as he correctly identified, has turned postmodern. Alisa, you should check out the book Game of Gods: The Temple of Man in the Age of Re-Enchantment by Carl Teichrib. It’s so relevant to this conversation. Checking out and subscribing to this man’s channel as well. God bless.

[@brenmanock]

Well said about explaining the gospel. Very compelling

[@abrahamjacenko7326]

Amen we are living in end time God is Awesome he used all of us in our experience and life to reach out to others through our own experience praise the Lord God bless you and your podcast we hold the line towards the end when the Lord would we wore us for being faithful to him through his son Jesus Christ amen

[@darrenmiller6927]

Jon and Alisa, was happy to find this. Great to hear some more of Jon's story. Once again, Alisa is great at the long form interview. She has a gift. I look up to them both. Even though I'm older I am struggling through repentance and coming back to God, by His great mercy and grace. Oh, and I agree, I had to learn the prosperity gospel is a mess the hard way, and I believe harmful. Jesus was modest or poor and was crucified. The apostles were modest, beaten, jailed, and more. There is strong historical data that Paul, Peter, and James the Lord's brother were killed for their faith. Prosperity? Their spirits prospered in Christ. Christ of coarse rose from the dead and ascended to heaven where He rules, but the journey there was hardly the lap of luxury, in a material sense.

[@__.Sara.__]

This was great to listen to! Very sound!

[@jasonbryan9056]

Hello how are you doing 😊😊

[@dennisfigueroa6546]

Discussion was awesome and an eye opener. Thank you 😊

[@Odid.WarArt]

These discussions are so good! God is truly trying to awaken the Christians from these false ideologies and misconceptions of Christianity.

[@laurakosch]

Great discussion. But - at around 22 mark you almost say believing isnot enough. Fuzzy fuzzy foundation. How much do I have to love? How much fruit do I need? Did I “really” believe!? Do I have “saving” faith? Only when I left these endless cycle questions behind and just believed the simple promises did I find any peace. But I guess you might accuse me of a cheap grace? 😢

[@terkaoranzova6345]

Very useful conversation, thank you🧡

[@Weissguys6]

Truth is not relative or subjective. Believing it is has led us to where we are in our fallen Western Postmodern society.

[@somethingtothinkabout167]

Truth is something that confonts us, offends us and convicts us.

[@jasonbryan9056]

Hello how are you doing 😊😊

[@MerBlack]

Two of my favorite KZbinrs :)

[@lorysipel6823]

This was so good! Thank you!

[@michaelagbonkpolor4069]

Thanks for this!

[@jenniferpeacock9291]

I love the conversation on "truth." I have noticed how people misuse the term 'truth.' It is perspective. We can have those deep conversation with them until we move past those assumptions.

[@abullard8409]

Beautiful Presentation

[@nikokapanen82]

"Dont eat lucky charms, dont drink, dont do drugs, have parties, date.." - well that actually sounds like a healthy christian faith, yet at the same time that is exactly why most youth leaves the faith because of all these sinful desires which young people want to taste and try, i was one of them. Fortunately God called me back to himself after i tried all the drinks and drugs and parties and women and got myself into a big mess and broken spiritual condition.

[@saigie3908]

Wait why is Lucky Charms bad? I can’t watch the whole vid because I’m at school

[@nikokapanen82]

@@saigie3908 Christians suppose to have nothing to do with luck, we can get blessed and blessings but not luck. Luck belongs to the demonic forces.

[@saigie3908]

@@nikokapanen82 Ohhh, but is the freak tainted or something with a demonic ritual or something like that?

[@zackmac5917]

I'm in love with a non-christian woman, and I'm finding it hard to let go. I have this hope that, she will become Christian, or that, even if she doesn't, we can still have a blessed marriage together, and maybe she'll believe at some point. I'm also extremely lustful over her. So this is tough. She's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. I've had so many opportunities with a lot of women. But for some reason, this girl, I fall for. I absolutely adore her. Yet she's a hardcore atheist. My mind tells me, well, I'm not the best christian, I'm a pretty bad christian. She's probably a better person than me even though I'm christian. So what difference does it make. But then I flip back to - it's not about my works or who I am, it's about Jesus, who he is, and my faith in him. It's not about my works or her works. It's about the faith in the truth in which I stand for. And that is fundamentally at odds with her beliefs. And this is the most important thing out of it all. It's honestly been one of the biggest struggles in my entire life.

[@nikokapanen82]

@@zackmac5917 Marrying an unbeliever is yoking yourself with worldliness. It cannot happen if you are a true believer because what you are and what a unbeliever is are two fundamentally different things. I wish you would grow stronger in God so all that lust and desires toward an unbeliever would get quenched and you would receive peace in heart and mind.

[@NewCreationInChrist896]

John 15:4-5 Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. Just as no branch can bear fruit by itself unless it remains in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in Me I am the vine and you are the branches. The one who remains in Me, and I in him, will bear much fruit. For apart from Me you can do nothing”

[@gaynorkelly9413]

Amen! And just like the prodigal son rebelled and Jonah hid in the whale....once we are His we are ALWAYS His and deconstruction, postmodernism or whatever new label comes out He WILL find us and brings us back....no matter how crippled from the consequences of our actions we may be. That's "the reckless love of God....."

[@leonardherring2468]

I am appalled at the politicization of the churches today where church leaders tell their congregations that they must vote in a particular way or they are not true Christians. We are to spread the Gospel of the good news of Christ and leave politics to the politicians it is only through this that hearts will be changed. I have just left my church after 20 years because my pastor is constantly weaving his politics into his sermons diluting the power of the message making it of little spiritual effect.

[@dollymadison2397]

I'm in actual real tears right now, because I just found out from you, Leonard Herring, that I'm not the only one. In 2013-ish, I thought I finally found the church where I was was supposed to be (after years of being in a cultist church, & then YEARS of being away from God & feeling trapped in my "Church PTSD" as I call it) it's a little baptist church down the lane that looks like a Norman Rockwell painting filled with about 150-200ppl , including kids. A pastor in his 40's who'd been shepherding that church for 17yrs (consecutively- which is rare- he's still there), and a wooden sign that says "Come as you are, leave better). A church that is biblically sound & not too formal, but certainly not new-agey by ANY means. ("Awwwe..prefect for me!) There were things that gave me pause, but no church is actually "perfect"by far & iron sharpens iron. But then there came a sudden, shocking newness. You see, I'd heard hardly anything political in that church, other than the VERY occasional reminder or opening/closing prayer, that we are commanded to pray for our POTUS & such. Then, in the fall of 2016, there was suddenly ALOT of prayer for our POTUS & his family, admin etc., not only in volume, but in much more detail, like guidance, protection,etc. That's all good & biblical, it was just very curious bc I'd never heard such ferverent prayer regarding any political figure, or general politics before- especially in such frequency & intensity. I suddenly & continuously felt more like I was at a political rally praising the new POTUS, than at church praising GOD (well, atleast EQUALLY, anyway). I remember one time, in particular, a long-time deacon closing service in prayer..(He's s a very large, intimidating man with a booming voice to begin with), but this time, in particular, his voice was booming x 100! He was extremely intense, he seemed to be red-faced, sweating & his every muscle tightened - especially his clenched hands as he (pretty much) hollered "And I thank GOD we FINALLY have a PRESIDENT who has the GUTS to..." I couldn't hear the rest- I was rattled. I'd never seen him like that before. Conversation amongst my sisters & myself, in & out of church, suddenly consisted largely of how gentle, kind, & GODLY our new POTUS is (I'm sorry, but- 😳!!) and also verbatim talking points I had just heard an hour ago on Fox news. VERBATIM!!!..as in select, copy, paste!!.. It was astonishing! It didn't stop there; there was also not-so-veiled bashing & all kinds of stuff that I'd never saw coming before. I never said anything. I knew it would be foolish to do so. So After several weeks of prayer & consideration, I finished cleaning the church one Saturday night (my ministries were greeting new ppl, cleaning the church, and also audio/visual, & occasional kitchen help) I placed my fob ("key") in an envelope with a note to the pastor simply stating that I appreciate so much about the church, and how much it grieves my heart that I wouldn't be back. About a month later, I got a call from ONE person asking me why I left. I was EXTREMELY vague so no on knows, still, to this day. Then, About 3-4 MONTHS later, I got a text from the pastor that read "We hope you come back soon sis, Jesus will return soon". Nothing since, but I was glad he finally noticed the person who say in the middle, 3rd row wasn't there anymore. But more than that: At first, I was actually afraid that I might cause a void in the church if I left, with it being so relatively small, my immersion in ministries, etc., but my feelings of guilt were were soon proven to be erroneous. Even to this day, not even the deaconess I sat by almost every single Sunday (til I was in the audio/visual booth) seems to notice that I'm not there, which explains why I never "felt it" when someone at the pulpit would say, "We're a FAMILY, right?" . Lol.smh... 🤷. Anyway... even though it gives me some kind of comfort (selfish, I'm sure) to know that I'm not the only one who's church seemed to turn into a weekly political rally, I'm sorry that that's the case for you too. I know it's heartbreaking.

[@shawnlusby1538]

Don't drink, smoke, or chew or hang around those who do

[@kylec8950]

We drink in Church, as Christ commanded.

[@michaelstrauss6587]

Blessings and love saints

[@Subeffulgent]

Keep up the good work Alisa and Jon McCray. May God bless you and your family 👉✝ I'm Roman Catholic, not an idol worshipper😁

[@gwengwen4535]

The question I ask, is always “Do you KNOW the God you know?” Plain and simple. Do you really know Him?? Do you? Who is He?? It’s noble to ask, but to just surrender is eternity.

[@ericfisher1360]

When I was growing up I was raised in a pretty intense situation, a few examples; 1. In Church Bible Study for at least an hour a day 6 days a week. 2. Friday Night Bible Study in our home from 7:00pm till around 7:30-8:00 am Sat. Morning. (We had upwards of 100 to 125 people in our home on Fridays) 3. Could read nothing unless it was the Bible or other Christian Text. 4. No Television unless it was Christian Programming. 5. No music unless it was Christian. 6. No Toys when a Boy unless it was a Bible Character doll. ( I remember watching all my old toys being bon fired) 7. We had various Strangers, Homeless or destitute people living in our home at various times. (Of course they had to live like we did as long as they stayed.) On top of this my Parents ran a Christian Coffee house to try to get the kids off the street. When it came to the idea of asking God for desires or needs when we pray the general idea was this; When you pray God hears you, maybe he will respond the way you want maybe he wont. We were never taught that works merited salvation. When I have told people about my childhood they often act as if my Childhood was legalistic, with lots of "I am sorry" from Christians. This is intresting to me because it was the best time of my life. I always felt loved and a part of something. I felt blessed to have parents and a Community around me that was concerned for one another. Today my struggle is trying to find the actual problem with the way I was raised in light of the state of the world.

[@rebekahguilder602]

I had a lot of similarities in ny upbringing but not quite as strict. I didn't appreciate the bible studies then but I certainly do now.

[@ericfisher1360]

@@rebekahguilder602 I unironiclly loved them. When I was a kid I used to love to sit and listen to the grown ups sit and talk about theology, hammering back cup after cup of Coffee. Sometimes they agreed sometimes not so much. The Bible Study we had at our house was not limited to people exclusively from the Church we went to so we had Baptist folk there, Methodist folk, Church of God folks, Assembly of God folk we ran quite the Gambit in our home studies. We had people who drove over an hour to get there friday nights. Its Amazing what happends when you stuck a sign in your front yard.

[@saminates2002]

@@ericfisher1360 Funny enough I was thinking the same thing. I thought that seemed kind of legalistic. But you know what, I guess it’s not necessarily legalistic at all Although I do think (personally) that rules 3-6 are a bit much. You just had a family that was super involved at helping and being a salt on the Earth

[@ericfisher1360]

@@saminates2002 When I think about the rules you mentioned I think I was okay with it, because I understood they were not doing it to punish me, so I honestly had no feelings of angst about it. They were pretty good at letting me know that I had done nothing wrong and I think that actually helped alot.

[@lbamusic]

Great program and discussion! Is it too simple to note that those who have been Saved directly by Gods Sovereign intervention in their lives, are the ones who come to know what is true and real without doubting, because God leads them into all truths. I think the true process of Salvation is Gods acceptance of us, rather then our acceptance of Him. I think the problems start when salvation is of the latter variety rather than the former.

[@HeDothJest]

Sad to think in the post-modern world to converse on an equal level we have to straighten out the foundational meaning of reality.

[@michaelangelo9119]

Thank you for the good short summary of CALAM

[@jaquirox6579]

Who is this wonderful human?! And why is his testimony soooooo close to mine?! I need to go check his channel out!

[@koalabluebearjacinta5927]

Excellent insights thank you

[@Jacques.Smith_]

We also have to pray for the salvation of Jordan Peterson. He has been opened up by trauma (which the Lord can make His servant) and I really think he is grappling spiritually, and as his heart is visibly softening and increasingly open to repentance. It would be nice to have such an evangelist join the fold....the workers are few in Loadicea. Let's include him in our prayers that the Lord continues to open eyes and use us in the greatest miracle of all...salvation through faith in Christ alone. Love both of you as well. You are sowing seeds like bosses. Surely, you have heard many testimonies of those seeds, watered by the Holy Spirit. Greetings from South Africa 🇿🇦

[@barrypeterson6725]

Excellent discussion!

[@alda2086]

This is great! Thank you 🤗

[@christopherflux6254]

Lucky Charms is just a goofy product name. No one is using that cereal to practice the occult. They are just pieces of wheat, not actual charms.