Bad Therapy, Weak Parenting, Broken Children | Abigail Shrier | EP 427

Dr. Jordan Peterson speaks with best-selling author Abigail Shrier. They discuss her landmark first book, “Irreversible Damage,” as well as her latest publication, available now: “Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren’t Growing Up". From this, they break down the state of the therapeutic industry, the overgrown tendency of professionals to “treat the well, rather than the sick,” the existence and need for necessary trauma, and the now-generational impact of harmful therapy, and by extension, harmful parenting.
Abigail Shrier received the Barbara Olson Award for Excellence and Independence in Journalism in 2021. Her best-selling book, Irreversible Damage: The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters (2020), was named a “Best Book” by the Economist and the Times (of London). It has been translated into ten languages. Her upcoming publication, Bad Therapy: Why The Kids Aren’t Growing Up is slated for release in early 2024.
This episode was recorded on December 14th, 2023
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Chapters -
(0:00) 2024 tour Info
(0:39) Coming up
(1:16) Intro
(2:51) “Irreversible Damage”: revisited
(5:56) It used to be hard to become a therapist
(7:32) What prompted Shrier to write “Bad Therapy”
(10:19) What’s wrong with trauma informed care?
(15:50) Chloe Cole, the evil of affirmation
(20:33) Is it “all social media”?
(23:30) Pressure from the professional governing boards
(27:15) Don’t hand your children to malicious strangers
(32:56) Self consciousness and misery are directly linked
(34:54) Happiness does not stem from self actualization
(37:10) We created the infrastructure for miserable lives
(38:18) The self esteem movement ruined independence and achievement
(41:22) Kids today are “afraid to even try”
(47:30) A terrible hypothesis for the toxic maternal instinct of modern women
(52:07) Why have parents lost faith in their children’s ability to cope?
(58:30) If you treat your children as if they are fragile, they will be more likely to break
(1:01:23) What trauma actually is
(1:05:02) Why trauma is necessary
(1:06:36) The Oedipal mother, a truth as old as symbolism
(1:09:40) The cure for of 80 percent of gender dysphoria is puberty
(1:12:30) The authority of the parent is the Childs model for what to become, soft parenting fails
(1:14:49) This is the first generation where the majority does not want kids
(1:19:15) The revelation of motherhood
(1:22:10) Something all truly great people do
(1:24:59) You must have faith that you child can succeed
(1:27:41) Take back your children: the subtraction technique
(1:30:12) Advice for facing disagreement with the parenting “experts” - remember who loves your kids
(1:32:26) How Shrier’s writing has changed her life as a mother
(1:37:06) The role of the feminine in the landscape of the sacred
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[@cameronpfiffner3415]

Abigail Schrier’s comment about children being asked to dwell upon bad feelings reminds me of a recent news article which told the story of how a tribe in Africa ended up asking a group of care workers, who had been assigned to help them deal with the trauma of genocide, to leave. When asked why, the tribal representatives said that it was harmful to seclude a person suffering from bad feelings and memories in a darkened room and ask them to relive their trauma. The tribe, they said, dealt with these feelings by drumming, dancing and singing in the sunshine to defeat them together and drive them into the past where they belonged. That way, they said, the person who suffered was given support, and embraced by the whole community.

[@okok-oc4ko]

This is why traditions thrive and religions exist. Both give us purpose designed by the wisdom of past generations yet people tend to oversee it as senseless worship.

[@Lalallalu]

Wow is that a POWERFUL lesson for the therapists, as well as an effective healing strategy for the traumatised ! Thank you for sharing this 🙏

[@pixie3458]

Absolute wisdom 😊

[@beautifulrose8619]

Their way sounds more effective. I always have thought therapy was endless and unhelpful

[@cdrcluster9282]

Amen! That may be how our race survived!

[@jediofmetalii1623]

Jordan Peterson was the first person in my life that told me it was ok to fail and encouraged me to do so. I should have learned that lesson at 8 not 28.

[@MaryC-co8fm]

Awesome. Most people never learn it. The fact that you are listening to Peterson at your age is a great sign.

[@jediofmetalii1623]

@@tm7619 That sounds all too familiar.

[@OpticPlay_]

Hey, I learned this at 31. Don’t beat yourself up. We are all on our journey

[@gustavus0013]

It’s fine, everyone has their own pace.

[@katiefrankie6]

One of my greatest fears was failure. My sister and I were such perfectionists that we didn’t even learn to ride a bike until we were 9. We struggled in college due to fear of failure. I was a procrastinator, too! Now I embrace failure as part of the process of learning. Also, I ❤❤❤ Dr. Peterson!

[@yildizofyiti7628]

There is a very popular TV show in Japan called Hajimete no otsukai, where young kids are given a task to do something by themselves for the first time in their life, usually something like walking down to the local store to get ingredients for dinner. They get a little purse with change and a shopping list (pictures if they cannot read yet) and the parents and TV crew follow them from a distance and monitor them. It is just absolutely adorable to see them grow, in the end the parents are always in tears and the kids are proud of their accomplishment.

[@partiellementecreme]

What a brilliant idea, unimaginable in the West, and not least because of car dependency.

[@user-tm6nr2in1n]

this reminds me of Dr. Peterson's thoughts on "play" as the best product of proper protection/border and proper freedom.

[@TheTruth_StraightNoChase]

In America there's this show where narcissistic women run around in 5k dollar outfits trashing their husband's, who pay for everything, as often as they can. OMG there's a lot of shows like that in America.😅😢😅😢😅

[@Vic82toire]

Old Enough! Great show! The kids are sooo cute. I watched a 2 year old do his first errand. Walk to a grocery store and buy a couple of things. It was soo amazing!

[@sheldonwarren4183]

@@partiellementecremel.

[@karissadesiderio9976]

Our kids are so malnourished too. That has a HUGE impact on mental health.

[@Sleepless_in206]

Great point👍

[@richardhudgens5180]

Absolutely 100% McDonald's is not dinner.

[@MaryC-co8fm]

Excellent point. With both parents working, there is almost no time for healthy, family meals.

[@Madgardian]

@@MaryC-co8fm While two parents working is not good. If you work an 8 hour shift...you have at least 6 hours to get things done at home. Plenty of time for the shopping and construction of healthy meals for the family.

[@sunshineand]

​@@MadgardianI agree. It's about priorities

[@Wrenn180]

When I was a little kid my brother and the two boys next door to us were my best friends. We were out and about every day climbing trees and ‘camping.’ Being the only girl I was a real tomboy, I’d climb the highest trees to prove I was just as good as them but whenever we argued they pulled the ‘girl’ card. ‘You can’t do this cos you’re a girl.’ It was just kid stuff but I’d go home in a rage and cry to my ma that I wished I was a boy. And I meant it. Thank god there were no lunatics back then, because if someone had said that I could be a boy if I felt that strongly I’d have jumped at the chance! I remember how strongly I felt at age 7 and I would have insisted I was a boy if told it was an option. I grew out of it by 13, it was just part of my childhood, a phase. I can see how easily small children can be manipulated- especially through my own experiences and it horrifies me that there are adults who are trying to normalise this.

[@liz9284]

I’m 47, and when I was about 10 or so I was also hanging with the boys, my bike was a boys bike, I was jumping home made ramps (poorly, but still doing it, LOL) and taking apart the VCR (cringing at the realization that yes, I’m that old) just to see how it worked, refusing to wear dresses, wanting to build furniture with power tools (I have a full shop now, just bc it’s fun, not as a career), and so on. I thank God none of these crazy bastards were around when I was 10 or they would’ve told me, convinced me, I was a boy for sure. It was never that I FELT “like a boy”, I just wanted to be viewed as “independent” like boys were, and the reason is simple-my father valued it (and still does). He HATES dependence, and so to earn love I did everything I could to be independent. All of this is so clear to me, looking back on it. When I got my first boyfriend at 16, however, I started liking dresses and makeup and sparkly things. Go figure. These days I’m an amalgamation of sorts. I love my pretty dresses, but as I mentioned already, I still love getting my hands dirty and cut to ribbons (well, maybe not that part so much) using my tools. The thing is, this “amalgamation” is one thing I truly like about myself, and I can’t imagine what life would’ve been like for me had someone taken that from me. It utterly breaks my heart to see it happening to kids now, and the fact it’s their first and last lines of defense-their parents-being complicit. What a betrayal, it’s devastating.

[@blackdeath4eternity]

your comment kind of makes me curious your girly/tomboy ratio later in life, but hope whatever it ended up being served you well & continues doing so.

[@blackdeath4eternity]

@@liz9284 sounds to me like you have the perfect balance, hopefully its serving you well.

[@timothystonebarger3808]

Thanks

[@liz9284]

@@blackdeath4eternity I believe it is, I’m certainly not afraid to wire a light fixture or replace rotten wood, and I like learning how to do that kind of stuff. However, there’s one flaw I have (in regards to this anyway, I have tons more that are unrelated, LOL)-I don’t ask for help very easily. My husband will offer to help me with something, and I’ll insist that I can do it. This not only makes things harder for me, but it can make him feel like he’s not doing what he should be doing for his wife, too, and that can cause problems. I have to constantly remind myself that allowing others to help you is a gift for them, as well (I wouldn’t give up the time I fed my grandmother ice chips in the hospital for all the money in the world-it wasn’t much to her, but it was a gift to me:) Anyway, I don’t want to ramble, but I wanted to respond to you bc you took the time to ask the question, and I love that you did, it’s all too rare these days. I hope whatever balance you’ve achieved in your own life is serving you well, too! That’s the key in all of it, I think-balance.

[@spencerwilson8446]

My wife introduced me to Jane Eyre and there is a part in the story where she is being questioned and is asked “so what is your sob story?” She says she has none and lists all the things in her life to be grateful for. Earlier In the story her horrific abuse in childhood is detailed, and when she had the opportunity to talk about her life she choose to speak on the good in it. That just struck me so deep. I decided to be like her in that moment. If I ever have a daughter I want to name her Jane Eyre.

[@Gingerblaze]

That is an example of stoicism. Its an excellent approach once one has healed from their past traumatic experience. This can however, stop children from telling a safe and trusted parent when they have been sexually assaulted or experiencing something they need adult help with.

[@wattlebough]

There’s a time to grieve the wounds of the past. But then once the grieving is completed the healing begins. The healing takes time, sometimes years, but you strive for it until one day you realise that you don’t ruminate on the wound anymore, because it’s gone. Then you realise you’re free of the past and keep moving forwards building your better future one day at a time.

[@Taldaran]

And to heal from wounds of the past, we must fully embrace those emotions and honor them in order to learn and get past them. Another way of looking at it, is how are we supposed to save others from drowning, when we have not learned to swim.

[@charleneblack2792]

My daughter had a bad childhood, as I was an addict and her dad was an abusive drunk who stole her and kept her from me. She's 21 and blames everything on her me and her past. I was abused emotionally and sexually as a child, but hold myself responsible for my actions as an adult. I've tried to impart this to her, but she's so stuck in that victimhood, that she can't see past it. Thank you for the recommendation of the book. I'll have her read it. Hats off to you for realizing the truth and responding appropriately.

[@annnabannana]

This is beautiful

[@Hearth123]

My father lost 3 siblings and his girlfriend (who had been his high school sweetheart that he reconnected with later in life) within a year. He's been handling it very well, but he comes over often to hold my babies and talk and just to get comfort. He's grieving. My sister very much believes in therapy everything and has been trying to convince him to go to a therapist and get on antidepressants. She became irate when he jokingly called my baby daughter his therapist. I got so frustrated that we have pathologized human emotions so much that she thought he needed medical intervention just because he was sad and grieving. Holding your grandbabies actually is good therapy and I live a mile from my dad, he comes over every day so I know how he's doing and he's doing as well as can be expected. She lives over a thousand miles away, but insists that therapy is essential and specifically advised SSRI'S

[@elizabethmartinez4086]

Thank God that your father has you and his grandbabies! Hope your sister doesn’t convince him.

[@TheVino3]

The number of people i know that took/take SSRIs and actually got tangibly better from it... its not zero but its pretty close. They're for extreme cases, which as far as I can tell are as rare as they ever were.

[@kathyfagan9896]

Grieving is a part of life and healing. He is doing the right thing by reaching out to you by visiting and enjoying his Grandchildren. He is right it’s his therapy

[@hangingaround2954]

I’m 56 years old and I believe my parents unknowingly gave me and my siblings the best kind of parenting. It involved discipline without violence and freedom to fail within boundaries. There was also a certain amount of benign neglect. It worked perfectly.

[@elainehiggins713]

This is how I raised my four children. I feel like I accidentally did something right. I did not hover and trusted them to use their own good judgment most of the time. It turns out they had some! I worry about my daughter who has chosen the new way of parenting. It looks exhausting.

[@christaggart5687]

Therapist here. Sad to say that I have very few people in my industry that I would actually trust

[@judy7276]

Same here!

[@srolesen]

@@judy7276 How does that manifest itself? I know it's a weird question but it's hard to imagine as an outsider.

[@td1415]

Same here. It's had me questioning if I actually want to continue being a therapist, as I feel like I can't do my job anymore

[@KEDAMONO.]

​@@td1415 I'm currently going into Psychology and even as I hear about the harm of the industry I feel like more than ever we need to take back the industry back. Having no therapist won't fix the current situation as we have an entire generation that has been screwed up by these "professionals". A book by Carl Jung I am currently reading talks about how Psychology and The Church need to be more united. That a therapist needs to be on the level of a clergy and the fact that we took spirituality out of the field was the biggest mistake. After reading Jungian Psychology I am not surprised Jordan became religious. Because Jung's teachings all had an underlying respect for spirituality. Where the secular section (The Freud and Adler Teachings) has completely taken over.

[@twitch.zebesian]

any tips on how one finds a trustworthy therapist near them?

[@DoesntReadReplies]

This kind of conversation is the first step towards healing this broken generation.

[@theBaron0530]

Healing? No, fixing.

[@Tltawhr1]

And the broken adults encouraging it.

[@JDMEnterprises]

'this' broken generation? I think you mean era. so many generations alive and involved in the mess

[@JDMEnterprises]

also. is this conversation going beyond the choir? Cant heal those not listening

[@Tltawhr1]

@@JDMEnterprises good point. Someone change the SEO.

[@jaclynfixsen1595]

In junior high we had this event called "we day". At one point they had us in smallish groups and had us go around and basically share everything wrong in our life. What happened was a lot of oversharing, people crying, and random peers knowing the deep dark secrets of someone else. Junior high students don't have the capacity to deal with those things, and for those with actual problems I imagine that did nothing to solve anything. When it was my turn, I said, "um I don't have anything to say, my life's really good". Looking back i'm glad I knew even at that young age that what was happening wasn't ok

[@paigeharmon6354]

When my brother was 16 in 1976, my Mom gave him her 1972 Impala with automatic transmission. He wanted a standard shift so he and my dad went to a junkyard and bought a transmission from a wrecked Impala. Brothet and his friends welded an engine hoist from scrap metal with minimal supervision by Dad. They unhooked the engine, hoisted it, swapped out the transmission, dropped the engine and hooked it all back up, and cut a hole in the floor for the stick shift. Dad checked in once in a while but brother and his friends basically did it all themselves. Brother drove that car for 5 more years. Can you even imagine parents of a 16 year old allowing this nowadays? Brother became a very successful electrician, made more $$ than his friends that had masters degrees, invested wisely and retired at 60 with a higher income than when he was working. As for me, Mom taught me to sew when I was 7. I was sewing my wardrobe when i was 12, making dinner so it would be ready when Mom got home from work at 11. My brother and I both were mowing the acerage on a tractor starting at 9, along with trimming along the house with a push mover that didn't have safety stop. I raised my kids losely. They're all successful and independent young adults now. We've robbed kids of competence.

[@paperbagbrown6733]

YES YES & YES, 😢

[@stjoelawyer]

You and your brother will raise right and you raise your children correctly as well. There are still portions in the country where this goes on, but you won’t find them on the East and West coast in Illinois. They are mostly in flyover country and in small to midsize cities are in rural areas which are creasing shrinking unfortunately. I live the same life as your brother and did the same with my six children. All of whom are successful couple went to school/college, some became trades person. My two daughters were married by the time they were 20 years old and each have five children of their own and a husband who takes care of them and their children and they also provide the financial support while my daughters run the household and make a little bit of money now as their children are getting a little older on the side and are looking forward to a career later in life. Much like my wife did she graduated nursing school the age of 52.

[@con-can571]

You are bang on. My 11 year old goes to therapy because we had a family tragedy where our family was murdered. During a session, the therapist told me, in front of her, that she should be allowed to have tic toc and that I'm the one with the issue when I don't allow it!! It's been a total fight in our house ever since. As though it wasn't hard enough to be a parent.

[@zarbins]

Sorry for your loss. I would say a therapist should not seek to undermine parental authority and doing so in front of your child is inexcusable. A lot of child development psychological literature is coming indicating 13 is earliest they should get access to social media and 16 is preferable if possible. Maybe time for a new therapist??

[@anthonybrett]

That must be hard, buddy, I'm sorry for the loss. Don't give in. You're the boss, not the therapist and not your child. When your kid is sick or hungry, the therapist wont help. You will! Kids need tuff love. She will respect you for it in the future. You've gotta be cruel to be kind. You sound like a great parent. Keep up the good work. Stay strong.

[@pjones6749]

Stay strong, you are there parent. If it were me I would report this therapist, stop going and find a new one that will not undermine my parental authority.

[@Madonnalitta1]

That's insane. Every good parent knows to keep their children away from tik tok.

[@earthangel7253]

What kind of fuckwit would say that shit to you aye

[@ragmanx6256]

As a father of a diagnosed autistic child under my wing, I'm wholeheartedly grateful for this conversation. I have been led to believe instilling discipline and temperance is just too harsh for a brain that's wired "differently", but my instincts tell me to keep going and keep trying to push her to do better, to lead her to take accountability for her own mistakes, and to learn from them and see them as an opportunity for growth, rather than a boogieman to be avoided. It isn't always easy and she has an indomitable character, but I know this child has the potential in her to do great things with the right direction, because she's also incredibly smart and determined. I'll be damned if I let my child fall prey to the victimhood culture our current society is trying to force into their minds. Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for articulating what so many parents out there ought to understand about children.

[@a.p.5429]

You should check out Temple Grande. A successful autistic agriculture professor. She has written a great book "Thinking in Pictures".

[@M11969]

You are on the right track, let no one tell you different. Autism is a part of your child's life,ubit it's *not* the sum total of who she is.

[@atheistbewildered2987]

This is not appropriate for a child or adult with a neurologic disability. Reality means you accomodate and support.

[@Ardiane1]

Thank you!!! A person in my family is disabled almost blind and autistic but very smart. When I was asked to help the family with him they all told me to be careful and to keep him as happy as possible. I didn’t say one word then but I started to put limits and discipline. At the beginning he pushed back to the point he was violent but I pushed back and he now not only respects me but is starting to have a better behavior and better self control. All because I didn’t follow the therapist in the family but my years of working with little children. Now I work with disabled and I love my job, but poor parents how bad they are guided and most are victims of these kids. .

[@Ardiane1]

@@atheistbewildered2987heck No! They need more guide then you think. They cannot govern their emotions and accomodati g them sometimes creates more damage than good. Not always, but they should learn that they have to be accountable too, that teaches more than when you let them be and act as they want because they are disabled. Is a lot of educational work, but they are able to learn and are educated.

[@modoodles]

I'm 27, gen z and when I was in middle school, around 11 years old, I was experiencing severe emotions, I was feeling suicidal and my classmates were bullying me because I couldn't act normal in school. So my mom came to the school and said "DISCIPLINE THESE BULLIES!" multiple times, and never once did my teachers discipline the students who were harassing me. I saw teachers watching the bullying happening and then looking away when I looked into their eyes for help. It was pathetic and as most of us girls know, puberty is really really hard and it's a very vulnerable time where kids need to protected to a certain extent or else they could go down some bad paths. My mom ended up pulling me out of school and then she home schooled me for grade 8 and I honestly credit that move with helping me recover from my severe depression and anxiety. She was nurturing but also very strong on the point that being 11-12 is really hard emotionally and that she felt the same way when she was a kid. She said it would pass and I would be stronger for dealing with these emotions.When I went to high school, my peers thought I was gay because of how I dressed and acted but I was just a tomboy who liked to play video games and I didn't like to dress in girly clothes. I wasn't trans, I just despised that society told me I needed to act feminine (that's not the case now, I dress and act a healthy level of feminine). I'm just imagining this same scenario but instead my mom was advised to bring me to therapy. Without a doubt, I would tell a therapist that I don't like girl things and I relate more to boys, and they'd probably suggest to me that I might be trans. I definitely could've been led down that path because I truly didn't relate to girls and I felt very uncomfortable doing girly things. It's just so wrong and I would hate it if I was trans now. I might've been labelled with autism and ADHD, too and felt tied to those identities.

[@natetronn]

Did you draw your own avatar?

[@modoodles]

@@natetronn yep! 👍🏽

[@susandeacon7518]

I'm 57, when I was 13 I spent six months in a childrens psychiatric ward because i nearly killed a classmate after intense bullying. It took many years to realize I wasn't there just because of what I did, but because of what the adults around me failed to do. Now I just see adults as walking failures.

[@sarahbell3038]

Thanks for sharing! I am 33 and I feel a lot of the same way. I was seeing psychologists and psychiatrists at 12. No one said the things in this podcast. I too, feel if I was around now I may have been convinced I was trans, I developed an unhealthy body dyspmorphia, easily could have been warped. But I think it was harming nonetheless, I still ended up with like 5 diagnoses.

[@byhislove]

I hear this a ton in the school system, the child does not feel safe at school...I am dumbfounded how a therapist would transfer to trans...when a female says they relate better to boys. This is dangerous. Actually, I'm an (f) adult and would rather work in an office full of men then of women. haha. Mainly because of the 'games', territorial mentality, HS mentality and cat...ing.

[@lingtoone3719]

Hello Jordan Peterson, I just found out my father died a few hours ago. I can't express enough gratitude to you for all your lectures. There aren't words for how much you've helped me. Thank you. Really.

[@sparklesmith3748]

I’m sorry for your loss.. 😢

[@bemcascade]

Sending thoughts of peace and comfort to you.

[@berlinerintokyo3321]

Much love

[@democraticdialogue7271]

Deepest condolescences

[@ml7363]

I'm so sorry. It's a very hard thing to experience the loss of a parent. It will be an up and down journey but there will be a point when your memory of him will no longer illicit tears, but happiness in his memory.

[@HurricaneHope7]

I wish I'd listened to Dr. Peterson when I was younger. I had my fallopian tubes fully removed at 23 (also only 6 months sober from 9 years of alcoholism), and I had absolutely no bloody idea what I was doing. Now at 28, my husband and I are in the process of adopting a teenager. Although I'm blessed to be able to do this, I still grieve that my younger self believed the left-wing idiocy of my doctor, who happily told me that she's "willing to remove the tubes of any woman". Thank you Dr. Peterson for helping me to (eventually) embrace my desire to be a mother. I'm looking forward to seeing you on your tour on 3/24, thank you for coming to Arizona!

[@trevorjames3082]

Absolutely macabre

[@fuct9569]

They make it sound like they’re just doing a plumbing job.

[@Taldaran]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Seems to me one of the biggest issues is the greed and industrialization of all of the "care" institutions, namely psychiatric, medical, and pharmaceutical.

[@Catherine-2008]

I am so sorry this happened to you! Back in my day, you couldn't get your tubes tied until you were 30 for this very reason. What a wonderful gift you are giving to this teenager! I wish you and your family all the happiness!

[@lazybonesolga]

This is so sad, I am so sorry. I actually saw such a gynecologist on Instagram who was advocating for sterilization at any age and said she would do it 😢 and provided a list of doctors who could do it in different parts of USA.

[@kburgess8146]

I'm a therapist and former teacher in Canada. I'm on my second listen to this. It's so incredibly accurate. I'm busy sending it to so many friends hoping they will listen, though I already know they won't.

[@Sweetums1949]

I think Canada is lost forever

[@wiseonwords]

@kburgess8146 - Keep sending it out because this woke mindset has so become widespread in Canada that people need to be shaken out of their sleep.

[@Langley_Ackerman19]

​@@Sweetums1949Maybe if the PM is Pierre something will change.

[@lloyannehurd]

@@Sweetums1949 We Canadians don’t need to give up. Our ancestors didn’t.

[@hannekezijlmans6578]

Some (many, most?) of your friends may simply be afraid to voice their opinion. Keep sharing yours. At some point, the scale is going to tilt back to common sense.

[@Wallymakesstuff]

Great conversation. Spot on. My wife is a doctor of clinical psychology, and she is one of the few that see through the bs. She practices very much so the way that you, Dr. Petersen would support. Consequently, her practice is packed, she has almost 100% success in her clients in a relatively short time, and the referrals keep going. She’s on a mission to heal via objective therapeutic intervention - which holds people accountable to the fact that they are (and in many cases the parents) totally in control of the source of their issues. It’s not for everyone. Many can’t face or take responsibility to make it through the screening process. But for those who are ready to be responsible and take action to clear up the forces driving their challenges - they will most undoubtedly succeed with her. She also happens to be a Japanese born North Korean and now American Citizen - so she’s no stranger to adversity, and doesn’t put up with any BS!!

[@veronikavanquish]

What an objective therapeutic intervention? Do you mean it's objectively measurable?

[@Wallymakesstuff]

That’s not what she calls it, it’s what I’m calling it. It’s objective because the clients come in with a specific problem - she sees teens with a diagnosis of functional neurological disorder (FND). Ticks, turrets, bed wetting, non epileptic seizures, etc… And she has a program that requires the family to take specific actions to reduce anxiety and the underlying causes of those disorders.

[@Feooooooooooooooooon]

I've not watched the video. But totally in control of the source of their issues? As someone who is deeply interested in anthropology and sociology, I would just gasp at such statement in todays world where we have little control over our lives or environments. I do agree with self-responsibility and not getting into a victimhood complex. But to neglect the fact that we live in absolute crazy times where human body, mind and spirit is not adapted a single bit for this environment is just nuts. With that said, it is a hard question how much responsibility one can put and not.

[@tiad.9142]

@@Wallymakesstuffwhat’s your wife’s name for future reference if you don’t mind. Just in case I or my family ever had a real need for therapy

[@marihutten]

That example of her child playing the piano recital is so much of how I was raised. My mom was protective in the same way Abigail was "she's not ready yet". My dad always believed I as ready and pushed me to overcome my challenges. I learnt compassion from my mom and courage from my dad. I feel bad for kids that didn't have these two complementary things in their lives.

[@Celeste-dp5ur]

Compassion and courage - amazing. You had great parents! Inspiring to me as a young mum

[@IsaacDDuke]

Im listening to this podcast while demoing(demolition) an apartment, and I’m almost balling my eyes out at 1:23:26. I think I’m also referencing Jordy interviewing his dad and expressing his gratitude for his dad reading to him while laying on the floor. And I also have a four year old son who started playing violin a few months ago. It just hit me for some reason.

[@exxie1]

Yes. This comment is perfection. That's why traditional parenting is so important these days because it has always been two. It's almost common sense this should be, yet modernists will tell you otherwise.

[@mentalhealthrevolution9366]

Beautiful words, thank you.

[@Scottjclinicalnutritionist]

I'm so happy to finally see a swing in the opposite direction for therapy. I've been in therapy on and off since I was 15. I'm 34 now, and the amount I didn't need compared to needed is probably about 90%, not needed. The number of times I was told I had ptsd and I should keep feeling bad for my entire life just didn't make sense to me, and it served no purpose. After following Jordan for 7 years now I went to university and completed the degree I wanted, I'm starting a family and working 6 days a week when I could barely work 2 days for a few hours. I re found my lost connection to God. Can't wait for the new book!

[@nataliek5134]

So happy for you! It's amazing reading the comments on his videos how many people he helped point back to God.

[@dorahmulinge3800]

Praise Jesus for this

[@kaymeow]

YESSSS 🎉

[@lymphy12]

talk about jumping from dogma to dogma. good luck lil lamb

[@OrchinX]

@@lymphy12Do not dismiss what you don’t understand.

[@berserkerbard]

I had a stay at home mum and I’m am so incredibly grateful for her. She wasn’t a weak role model at all, and I want to do what she did with my kids. My husband and I are going to try our best to make it work with just his income. That’s not anything that we’re ashamed of, I will proudly raise my children as a mother who puts their needs first and financial gain second. We don’t need a lot of money, we’ve already been given so much. I’m barefoot and pregnant having worked hard on cleaning the bathroom today and I’m very happy and fulfilled ☺️

[@Eeeeeepboop]

I’m right there with you, bestie! 💕 And I couldn’t be more excited.

[@Lalallalu]

Good for you. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise, YOU make your own choice, hun 👏

[@Kate319]

I love that for you. I made the same choice 25 years ago.

[@liannemarie2504]

I'm a stay-at-home mom who homeschools, raised by a stay-at-home mother. You can do it, my dear!!!

[@tracygiesz7428]

Read Erica Komisar or Dr. Greer Kirshenbaum and you’ll know this is absolutely the right decision. The neuroscience of the developing brain (rapidly firing and wiring neurons in the first three years) supports that this type of relationship wires their brain toward stress resilience rather than stress reactivity. An interview with people who actually understand the decades of multidisciplinary, peer-reviewed research underpinning autonomic nervous system development would do JP and his listeners good. Kudos to you for building your baby toward mental health and stability. ❤

[@fullario]

I'm a 38 yo male and I recently quit seeing a therapist after seeing him on and off for about 8 years. Our sessions had become really combative as he would try to give me advice on things I didn't ask for, like how much to list my house for or how to manage my relationships. I started realizing that years of therapy had caused me to distrust my own intuition for making decisions, which was the main reason I had to leave. With my therapy experience, my biggest takeaway is that anyone in this profession could quickly develop a really unhealthy, codependent control issue with clients, since most coming into therapy are emotionally dysregulated or looking for someone to guide them. Even the best, well-meaning therapists can be guilty of this IMO.

[@T.H.H]

As someone who is currently in my masters program to become a counselor, this is an extremely important topic to touch on. I believe our society has a tendency to over diagnose and pathologize normal human experiences. There’s this great quote “Our current mental-hygiene philosophy stresses the idea that people ought to be happy, that unhappiness is a symptom of maladjustment. Such a value system might be responsible for the fact that the burden of unavoidable unhappiness is increased by unhappiness about being unhappy.”

[@nickcliffe9461]

I've quit smoking weed and exercise daily, because of you mr Peterson, Keep doing what you're doing. God loves you man and so do we.

[@Cedrou21]

That’s great ! Still struggling with addiction myself. Did you stopped « cold turkey » ?

[@ThomasH__]

@@Cedrou21no matter what your addiction is it’s best to just quit cold turkey. Except for alcohol and benzodiazepines as that can be dangerous to just stop. You can do it. Gather up your will power, set boundaries and break those cycles of habit. I used to be addicted to heroin. We all have a choice no matter how hard it seems.

[@ThomasH__]

@@Mr.Buttermaker I work as a councillor in a rehabilitation centre so it’s what I deal with everyday. I don’t have a degree and I’m not quite sure why you asked to be honest, an attempt to discredit my advice? What exactly did I say that triggered you?

[@Madonnalitta1]

​@@Mr.Buttermakerdon't be an idiot. Someone who has beaten addiction will be a damn sight more educated on the matter than any Prof on the subject.

[@marydamians4586]

Amen 😊

[@angelaratzay9034]

This is a wonderful discussion I'm an 88 year old woman. When i was 30 something i attended night classes.on psychology.a 50ish man was.almost paralized with grief, it turned his only kid a son was a complete failure .tje fathers words were "his mother and i.removed every stumbling block that came his way " now our son can't cope or function in the world

[@commonsense6846]

Aww that is beyond sad.

[@cironicholas526]

I was in grad school from 2014-2018 to be a therapist and in that program I met the most unintelligent and incompetent people I've ever met in my life, from my peers to the faculty to the CACREP accreditors. I left the program with only my clinicals incompleted, and zero respect for the field.

[@CloudslnMyCoffee]

As someone training to be a therapist, this is a very real and helpful conversation

[@MaryC-co8fm]

Be careful. It's a messed up field. I say this as a therapist myself. Read Reality Therapy ,by William Glasser. That is the type of therapy that needs to be practiced these days. Or Viktor Frankel's books on the search for meaning, aka logotherapy.

[@jennmcdavitt3782]

My ex husband took my daughter to live with him for 3 years bc he didn't approve of me letting her walk to the neighbor up the streets house by herself at age 10. When she came back 3 years later she was too scared to leave her room. It was so bad. She no longer believed in herself she never thought herself capable. Then the pandemic. Her endo told her that bc of her diabetes she was too high risk to go outside. She became paralyzed. She's 21.i finally got her to start working and do online school. Next year she has to go in person. It's so hard to get her to feel independent. To see how far she regressed in 3 years is so profound. You speak truth. Thank you so much! Don't stop talking.

[@emo7636]

I'm just so sorry this happened to you. It sounds to me that without doubt your ex-husband ruined your daughter's life. And that's unforgivable and unforgettable. I'll bet he knows what he's done and will be horribly ashamed of himself someday soon.

[@jennmcdavitt3782]

@emo7636 he's starting to realize it yeah. And so is my daughter. Which is reassuring. I'm working on getting her to a better place. She has a job at the hotel i work at and is starting too come out of her shell but some things just can't be regained

[@sabrinawanderer7560]

It's okay to protect your child from walking alone especially at night because we have many pervert-minded people waiting in the dark to do something sinister. It's your instinct to always protect your child. Remember, human trafficking is the biggest threat now. However, don't use your child's gender crisis identity to trust wholeheartedly any psychiatrist. Be vigilant and use your critical thinking to see beyond. Just because a child wants to become a boy and she's a girl that a therapist would allow and follow the child's whim to undergo physical surgery to become a boy. That's terrible!

[@ruthgrey7190]

I was raised by a tough Irish family. So my framework for kids was something like - don't cry, don't be a tattletale , brush it off and don't start a fight but don't walk away from one. My first child at 18, I hovered over. Until my second at 22. By the time my 4th was a toddler he was out climbing into the barn loft following his brothers. My older boy is a marine. My other boy is still finding himself but he never asks for anything. He says I don't owe him any help and he is always pleasantly surprised when I do something for him. My teenage girl is not on meds like her friends and I will only put up with her having the vapors to a certain extent and then I tell her to go to her room and get a hold of herself and come back when she can act like a human being. She pretty much stopped. She is an A student. My youngest who is 9 runs around the neighborhood with the other kids. He skateboards and rides bikes and plays ball and gets straight As. I have not had time to follow them around and fix things. I ask them to help each other. My older kids will make dinner some nights. My daughter will help her brother with homework. My son fixed my car for me. He didn't know how, he looked it up on KZbin and learned. I told him we could not afford a mechanic and he had to. He was so proud when he did. My husband has been gone since my youngest was 1 yr old. But they all still seem okay. I don't see why parenting is supposed to be so hard. I guess I am very used to it being how I have had kids my whole adult life. But I don't regret them . They ask me who my favorite is and I say it depends on the day and how they are acting. But I do say I am glad for each one. My daughter started saying she didn't want kids. I would always mention women end up very unhappy with that decision. That some day it would be a bitter regret. Now she says no more than 2. I think just being honest is huge. If you don't like how they are acting - say so. If you think they are wrong, say it. If they aren't mature enough to do something they want then tell them to prove that they are. Don't pretend. Tell them the truth even if it sucks. And expect more. People tend to give what others expect. Assume they can be more. Cause they can. I am so glad someone is finally questioning this new mode of parenting wherein you make yourself this ever vigilant prison guard/slave. That does sound awful. And I don't think it works out for parent or child.

[@amycarrwilliams2411]

Thank you

[@Lalallalu]

Thank you so much for taking the time to share your experience. Everything you say resonates with me as I was brought up that way (older child of 3) and tried/try hard to apply it to my now adult children. Unfortunately my husband/their father systematically (although unconsciously) opposed my way of raising independent children by mollycoddling them and accusing me of being a tyrant due to my tough upbringing. I regret not being more direct and standing my ground more due to empathy I felt for his younger self, separated from his family at age 9 to go to a boarding school till university age. He was unconsciously trying to redress his trauma, by spoiling our children. My adult children, in my view, are relatively independent, at the cost of me being forever the bad cop in their eyes. I can take it, I've broad enough shoulders, but its's been over 30 years of carrying this role of the boundary giver. Tiring!

[@paulkeys175]

@ruthgrey, you were a mother. Your children's success in life mirrors yours as a mother. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

@@Lalallalu That’s gotta be especially hard since the general expectation is the opposite wherein the mother is more nurturing and the father is more tough. Good on you for doing so well!

[@larysaistomina6849]

You know why your daughter does not want kids? Because she watched you raise your kids, her and her siblings, and decided she'd rather be lonely than go through that herself. So stop idealizing your kids and how you raised them. Obviously it was not pure success and joy if your daughter runs.the hell away from such life.

[@timcasey1428]

This is 100% accurate. I've experienced it first-hand children. Unhealthy people are not encouraged to get healthy. Instead we are encouraging the healthy to become unhealthy so that those who are broken don't feel so bad.

[@juliabuonincontro8617]

This is so important. I’ve been harmed by bad therapy more than any trauma that brought me to their doorstep. Don’t send kids to therapy unless they have an actual need for help in a specific area in a way that family and friends are not able to provide!

[@JoylessMonkey86]

I remember working a deli counter at a supermarket, parents would send the kids forward to order for them. I loved looking at the kids and seeing their faces light up being called Sir and Miss. Those parents had it right. They have a safe way of navigating conversations with unknowns and they were better for it.

[@vanessale7293]

I've been a doting mother who birthed her only child at the age of 35. Suffice to say, she has been my world and I've been very protective of her. Thankfully I have a good husband who has helped me learn to pull way back to let our 11 year old daughter take more risks and grow more independently. They go on many adventures together. Initially I didn't understand his intention and was a bit resentful of him but I've been seeing good results of independence and competence in our child and now I'm a true believer of that kind of healthy and balanced parenting. I know it's hard for older doting moms to let go but it can be done. Thanks for the great talk Jordan and Abigail!

[@alexs6250]

Nice!

[@lilolmecj]

Congratulations on being able to let dad be dad. I have 2 daughters and one son. My daughters would not trade their weight in gold for their adventures with their dad. And both are expert marks(wo)men with handguns, which is something I am not qualified to teach. Dads rock!

[@JaxPadsLSW]

And yet another prime example of the importance of the mother figure and the father figure in kids lives. 🩷

[@SeanPS]

I remember my wife used to scream at my daughter for messing with the electrical outlets out of her curiosity. This went on for months until I just told her to chill out and let her figure it out. So we watched from across the room as she started slowly pulling a cord out and saw the arc of electricity and the power flicker. She discovered the power of electricity and learned to respect it all in the same moment. Never had to tell her to stop playing with the outlets again because she didn't do it anymore.

[@lilolmecj]

@@SeanPS pain, in controlled setting can be very educational. It is said that in primitive cultures they allow the infants at crawling stage get close enough to the central fire to possibly burn a finger. They learn it is dangerous before they are a toddler when they could trip and fall into it with terrible consequences.

[@wyattsmomandpop]

This discussion had done me immensely well. We are older parents at 50 and 52 years of age with 6 children ages 5 to 33. My children look nothing like this world, and of that I am glad. My husband and I are raising them in the exact way described here. The goal is independence. It is hard to not answer the siren's call of fear that has been peddled to us for the last 30 years in the raising of our children. I am so happy to know that there are still sensible professionals in our world, even if it's few. Thank you.

[@exxie1]

God bless you and your husband for raising your children, not the most perfect way, but the right way to arm them for chaos.

[@deniserm1167]

Abigail’s message is one of the most important messages of out time because it is critical to our future. Parents and Children are being instructed in embracing pathology and dependence.

[@mrs.s.vajaycserhati9010]

Many parents have much to answer. Remember taking my son (now 20 years old) to the paediatrician over the years. Most often, in a full waiting room, he and I would be the only ones talking quietly. Every other baby/ child would be given an electronic device while the semi-literate nanny or infrequently another parent would play with her mobile and ignore the sick child. As a society, my generation has excelled at careers but failed miserably as responsible, attentive, listening parents. So much easier to leave "the school" to raise children - never an educational responsibility. If insufficient, find a therapist. Anything to avoid actually communicating actively and listening to our children.

[@Madonnalitta1]

Bingo.

[@beme2032]

Not only listening to our children, but teaching them to listen to US.

[@Flawda986]

Exactly. I don’t think parents are parenting at all! They hand them over to teachers, therapists, doctors, daycare workers, screens and their peers. They don’t know their children. They don’t guide their children. They let the world raise their kids.

[@thehotsixer1]

It is my belief that parents don’t care about parenting anymore because no one sings your praises you for it, parenting doesn’t make any money, it’s often not fun and is hard work (if you do it right). When you look at anyone in the media getting attention for any reason, it’s never for being a good parent, it’s always for something else, usually something about money.

[@mrs.s.vajaycserhati9010]

@@thehotsixer1 Possibly true however if someone has a child to be noticed and praised - probably should not be a parent. External validation and lauds are terrible reasons to become a parent.

[@polymathpark]

I was diagnosed with Central Language Processing Disorder in my teens and I wholly adopted that as a label, and it affected me for years. I spent a whole year in silence only occasionally mumbling. Now, after putting myself through embarrassing hardship, I speak with precision and grace. I was entirely beholden to what others said was wrong with my brain. I talk about this more on my videos, these diagnoses completely ruled my life! That was 15 years ago. Now, everyone is using diagnostic terminology to describe everyday struggles to their detriment... I call this the "diagnostic default"

[@cirelo1896]

I’m so curious about how you overcame this?

[@polymathpark]

@@cirelo1896 it's been a process, the clpd took a few years of uncomfortable trial and error along with a bit of microdosing (not psych meds btw). Taking 100 hrs of classes in cbt really helped. I talk about the other mental challenges in my video "how I defeated ocd"

[@a.p.5429]

I had a lovely student in First grade. However her mother had a gotten diagnosis label and played it for all she could. We tried to get around the instructional accommodations so she had to do her work because she was, as I said, a lovely student -friendly, hard worker, motivated but it finally came down to mom's threats to the school board. Such a sad thing. By Fifth grade she was just in the room barely doing enough to pass.

[@polymathpark]

@@a.p.5429 that's terrible. This story is all too common now!

[@LynzArts]

My mom got cps called on her once by our neighbor for letting us play outside without her. We lived in a tiny town with a park across the street from our house. My mom could easily watch us from on the porch or even inside. Thankfully nothing happened. The cps even told the neighbor to chill out

[@Hearth123]

My mother has severe mental health issues. She got much worse with therapy. Her first therapist was good, he challenged her delusions and really made her think, but she got rid of him in favor of an "empathetic" woman who just fed her mental illness. She eventually got so bad that she was institutionalized

[@corinneb8475]

Well eyes opened up to another way that I have been stupid. This movement starts right at pregnancy. Every pregnancy/parenting book is saturated with it. I had zero trust in any parenting instinct that I might possess and happily jumped on the emotional intelligence train, desperate to do something different than my own parents. I had baby books on emotions, toys. It was the theme in every childcare facility we used, and the hot topic of every mom’s group. This movement would constantly put me at odds with my husband because he actually had a clue. And all the while I was setting up my children for the suffering I was so desperate to shield them from. Time to wake up, take my walk of humility, and see what I can salvage 😭

[@MB-gi8iq]

Every day is a new start! Never be afraid to admit your mistakes to your child and explain how you can all do better together. It will bring you closer together...

[@thesanfranciscoseahorse473]

Even in our horrible mistakes and trauma, there is hope. Don't be too discouraged. You're certainly not alone in this. The worlds institutions seem bent on destroying people who rely on them these days. Keep seeking truth.

[@tiharatav5696]

Hi! clinical social worker here and I completely agree. Lies produce death and the truth sets free. All professionals are corruptible (medical, political and religious are great examples). This profession is no exception. I also found in grad school that at least half of my peers were mentally ill (some were actively cutting) and instead of getting counseling they became counselors.

[@think4myself1]

If you make your children's childhood too "happy," adulthood will be miserable for them. I've been saying all this for the last 35 years and everyone thought I was a crazy mother, even a mean mother sometimes because I made my kids work hard with me. I even made their friends work if they came over, because it's how we lived. But when the work was done and they had all "earned their showers," they were allowed have a bon fire and stay up late. We made them work hard, but then gave them the reward of trust and responsibility, and we allowed them to play hard. I took a mire ancient way of raising them and expected them to behave like adults by the time they were 13-15. They lived up to our expectations. 😊 My mother and father intuitively knew all that you are saying, and taught this to me and my brothers. We were very fortunate. We knew if we were willing to be their parents first, they would be our friends when they grew up. This has been the case.

[@gustavus0013]

They are not "adults" at 13 or 15

[@MariJu1ce]

Maybe making them work hard and be responsible is the best way for them to have a happy childhood though.

[@think4myself1]

@@MariJu1ce agreed! AND a happy adulthood 😊

[@andreaschwertleite8169]

Allowing a child to grow by overcoming obstacles is VERY hard to do in a society of overprotecting schools and other parents.

[@alanaadams7440]

I'm so glad my mother was home to raise me and my sister. Mother went to work when my little sister was 17 and I was already married. My mother was my best friend all my life

[@PianoPsych]

Extraordinary interview. As a psychiatrist, I’ve become deeply embarrassed by the direction my field and allied fields have taken. The Daily Wire extension of this interview is especially worth seeing if you like seeing Jordan unpack and discuss the motivation that prompted Shrier’s journey. Jordan and Abigail are equally disagreeable and truth seeking. It’s a feast for those who love Truth. I wish they would turn their attention to other sacred myths. I have a specific one in mind.

[@reneehouser2925]

JP & Matt Walsh have blood on their hands for broad & vaguely telling young adult children to go no contact with toxic parents- instead of understanding & seeking restoration or healing. Families with average issues have been destroyed with bad advice to fragile people. Family conflict resolution should be promoted WAAAY before KZbin videos suggest going no contact. Going no contact is totally against all the Biblical commandments to restore, forgive, heal.

[@justinludeman8424]

As am I.

[@eileenfoulkes9058]

I wonder if it's the same one that I have hoped for . I read Abigail's book which is excellent but she made a sarky comment about people skeptical about. injectables in one chapter and I thought why don't you apply your journalistic skill and common sense to this subject . Start with a 2.3 billion dollar fine for fraud in 2009. And the fact that deaths from communicable diseases had been drastically reduced by better hygiene and nutrition BEFORE injectables were introduced . Excuse me if I'm way. off in my presumption .

[@bentleym3726]

A large part of the success of our marriage is that we thoroughly enjoy good conversation. Your podcasts and books have inspired many invigorating, interesting conversations. Thank you !

[@lindz758]

Im a therapist in Canada and see this trend first hand, mostly it seems to be psychiatrists over pathologizing my clients. Ill finally start to make headway in helping my client find agency then they'll come in after seeing a psychiatrist 1 time and say "guess what I learned I have [insert diagnosis here]" then we are back at square one because everything is about their diagnosis and not possible to change.

[@Adventure-of-your-Life]

You saved me Dr Peterson and brought me back to some of the morals that my parents instilled in me as a child that I lost once I went to university over ten years ago. You've brought me back and as I continue to watch your videos as well as some of your old lectures, I learn things about myself and my personal experience that I had forgotten that have helped me progress forward. I look forward to meeting you one day and hearing you speak if you're back in Canada towards the end of your tour.

[@sarahlynn7894]

I got to meet Dr. Peterson in 2018 and he's the real deal. So kind and genuine. I didn't have a good father (text book narcissist) and I thought most men were liars and cheaters that verbally abused women like my father. Then I discovered Dr. Peterson. He changed my perspective and helped me heal. I'm happily married to an amazing man whom also appreciates Dr. Peterson. I'm so happy for you. I wish you the best in your future! God bless.

[@zarbins]

@@sarahlynn7894 Many that dislike Peterson see him as anti-female and a misogynist it's difficult for me to point out that he's not just speaking to young men and he has powerful messages for women as well, as shown at the end of this podcast, you have an important voice and I hope you can share it with other women that see Jordan in such a narrow light. Glad you found a good man they do exist! :)

[@Madonnalitta1]

​@@zarbinshe's never been anti female. I'm genuinely unsure what people mean when they say that. He likes the sound of his own voice, and the religious stuff isn't for me, but he seems like a decent guy with sound life advice.

[@robertkostandyan4254]

Oh God, humanity needs to hear about this, about the importance of a family, as much as it’s possible. As a 21-year-old guy, who seldom shows emotion in response to sentimental movies, I was surprised to find tears welling up as I engaged with your podcast. I have great relations with my family, and I want to make even better family, and this will help me for sure. Thank you for your work.

[@SeanPS]

I can be the same way during movies, but I never fail to tear up only during moments of heroic bravery, usually acts of sacrifice or martyrdom. Don't know what it is, but the conscious choice to give your life for another always gets me.(edit: also, Mufasas death in Lion King gets me everytime... every damn time.

[@rebekahbarker7594]

I loved this interview❤. I got married in 2021 at 18 to my 22 now husband. He went to school and I thought “ why not have kids”! I had my first at 19, my second and 20 and so on until I had 6. We lived in student housing on campus and for years shared the same Jamba Juice on Friday nights because we didn’t have a lot of money. My husband was a hard worker and provided very well, for our family with my support. There were tuff years running business that he worked a lot and I was alone with all the kids. I dabbled in formal education mainly because I felt pressured to by the world. I even went to dog grooming school and started my own business. Ultimately I didn’t like it lol. I’d rather be home, decorating my house, planning meals and family vacations. Two weeks ago my oldest married Daughter just gave birth to her daughter, so at 41 I’m now a Grandmother! She’s living on a collage campus, with her husband finishing her degree already married with a child:). My life has been richly blessed with a solid marriage very “ normal kids”, with loads of stories I now hear round the dinner table of all the crazy things they did growing up:). Education is wonderful and should be encouraged but nothing is as important as family. I think I’m a very balanced person with many talents and skills Iv gained being a mother. Thank you for this interview:)

[@karenglenn2329]

I love your story. Thank you.

[@caitlin_e]

As a newer therapist I absolutely agree that children are being over diagnosed. When I started forming my client load who were already receiving therapy from others in the company and I noticed that many of them had 4-5 different diagnoses. At least one diagnosis is required to bill insurance but diagnosing a 9 year old with 4 different things is absurd

[@w_and_lan]

Babe, wake up! JBP just posted!

[@LMGphilanthropy]

Hear the flowers blooming!!

[@TheRoachDawgJr]

Babe!

[@jakeroper1096]

I’m here bro

[@deminybs]

Does the "B" stand for babe??? His name is Jordan babe Peterson???

[@josephguzman2113]

Everything ok babe? you’ve hardly touched your JBP, roughly speaking

[@baldeagle-cq2jl]

Abigail Shrier and Helen Joyce are two women who have stood up valiantly for the concerns of conserving and protecting women, children and parents, against the harms of ideology and physical/emotional damage caused in this fast rising phenomena that has exploded at a exponential rate in the past quarter century.

[@Nawnish-Pawnish]

I was beginning to wonder if anyone else was observing the changes that is happening to young people and today's parents! Thank you for an indepth, smart conversation. How do we share these thoughts with the people who need to hear it the most?! That is part of the problem. My children KNOW and understand the importance of not being offended or weak-minded. I would discourage them from entertaining feelings of "I can't". (Within the realm of safety and logic). I have shared this with my daughter (a teacher in Massachusetts). Thanks!

[@dannyharris9897]

When my kids were young and came in hurt from playing, I'd ask him or her: "are you going to let that little bit of pain keep you from having fun?" They always chose fun. Also, after my kids were grown, I coached a high school girls wrestling team. In those 6 years, I had about 50 girls go through my program. Of those 50, I ended up with more than a dozen extra daughters. I feel it's the greatest thing I've ever done (teaching how to overcome obstacles, dealing with defeat, setting goals, there are rewards for hard work, etc...). I've been so blessed!!!

[@gabbykouris]

As a trauma therapist, I find this conversation to be unbelievably necessary. I stopped working with children and parents in my practice because parents are so hellbent on preventing their children from engaging in any sort of struggle or experiencing any uncomfortable emotion and it's created a generation of children who believe in their fragility and their lack of ability to endure any hardship in any capacity. When I try to push parents, they accuse me of malpractice. Sociologically, it's quite an interesting predicament. In an attempt to avoid traumatizing their children, they have accidentally instilled in them a belief system of someone who HAS been severely traumatized. Children are now terrified of the world, and terrified of their existence in it.

[@psychshell4644]

I have a parent who wants me to change her child's toy preference because other kids are picking on him for it. He's a great kid.

[@gabbykouris]

God forbid that the child develops some distress tolerance or learns how to manage their emotions in a difficult situation!@@psychshell4644

[@alichebry]

Thanks for having the courage to bring this issue to light. My 4 children are young adults now but two of them went through exactly what you are speaking of. There were teachers in their schools in Calgary, AB that insisted that they get coded and treated by psychologists. One of my sons was not participating enough for this teachers liking. I learned later on this was a pattern for this teacher and the principal (who were both middle aged with no children) and the school board supported in her insisting that almost every male student in her class be treated. Yes, I took it all the way to the board without success. In hindsight I feel duped by the entire system. I tried four different schools for my quiet introverted son, the only one that worked well for him was private but I couldn’t afford to keep him in for high school. To this day he is severely depressed and struggling to cope at 22 years old. I blame myself for allowing myself to be bullied by these educators who had absolutely no interest in my children’s well being. I was a volunteer in the public school system for 10 Years and would estimate 10% to 20% of teachers gave a damn about the kids. I advocate for homeschooling, charter or private schools, the public system is a complete disaster.

[@JaxPadsLSW]

Whoa whoa whoa who the hell is the teacher in any place to make medical decisions for your child?! Like WHAT.

[@gustavus0013]

Well, is he getting help or going to therapy now?

[@livenotbylies]

God bless both of these brilliant tellers of truth 🙏

[@angelm795]

When I lost my son in pregnancy (stillborn) and suffered a traumatic birth injury that almost killed me. I absolutely had PTSD and bereavement. That was trauma. My cousin who is a psychologist ironically enough displayed little empathy and wanted to counsel me (to get over it). Yet he's spent his entire adult life in therapy, rumminating on every single injustice no matter how minor calling that trauma too. I remember him recalling watching a scary movie at 8 citing that as a unhealable wound. Yet im supposed to get over the death of my beloved baby boy immediately ? Psychology is a fucking joke. im so glad I found this book. Its really helped me in more ways than I can ever thank Abigail.

[@karlherzog3979]

I’m thankful for the childhood I had. I grew up on a dairy farm and my dad taught us how to work hard and he put challenges in our path to overcome. It’s given me a level of confidence that even if I have no clue how to beat an issue if I keep at it I can figure it out. That has been incredibly useful in my life.

[@Leo-mr1qz]

My daughter, 10 years old, played in a championship basketball game. A player from the opposite team got really hurt at the end of the game. She was a great little competitor. At the end of the game, when everyone shakes hands, the little girl had to sit out of it because her knee was badly injured. I took my daughter over to her and made her congratulate her for her excellent effort and wish her well. The little girl smiled at her and thanked her underneath the pain of her injury. I've always taught my daughters that when someone falls down on the court, you help them up, regardless of the team. It's a game! It's a competitive game, but you are both after the same goal, especially in grade school. Sportsmanship has been taken out of the competitor. If they can't play nice and help each other up in a game in grade school,they certainly will not help them up later in life.

[@margaretmeyncke3592]

I loved being a stay at home mom. I also homeschooled for 30 years. Delightful. Best ever! ❤

[@chrissyc1996]

I often say "Bad therapy is worse than none at all." I experienced this first hand with the terrible therapists I had to deal with with my mentally ill child. They enabled her and portrayed her father and I as the problem because we expected her to go to school and follow basic household rules. I called it "Pat on the back therapy" They patted her on the back and told her anything she did was Ok, including lying to us and engaging in self-harm. Thankfully, we finally found competent professionals. She is an adult now and while her life is not perfect, she works and has a family of her own.

[@dogladytherapyllc644]

Ugh, as a therapist this hurts my head. Therapy is not about pushing agendas; it should be about treating symptoms and helping clients become better at feeling their feelings. Therapy is about promoting metacognitions so people can see how their distorted thoughts cause distorted realities. Some of us are still trying to improve peoples' lives. Some of us are still providing good therapy so that people can go on to have lives worth living. I am not ready to give up on the profession.

[@bryanferguson4927]

Yes, she uses broad-brush attacks on an entire profession to create controversy to sell more books. There are good and bad therapists; just like there are honest and also dishonest journalists...like her.

[@Shadow_Videos]

As a therapist in training, i agree with many of the problems that were discussed in this podcast. I have also learned and applied many of your teachings into my practice with clients. Thank you again for another amazing podcast. I would love to see Dr. Peterson speak with more therapists in the field.

[@stevenmoor]

"You can make children feel good about themselves by celebrating non-achievements" I feel this statement on a cellular level. I was born with a medical condition that garnered special sympathies and attention throughout my formative years. One of my most vivid and confusing memories from my early school days was receiving an award (in front of the entire school - Kids + Parents + Teachers,) for some incredibly trivial reason. No one said it out loud, but it really stuck with me and kinda messed with my head, because I knew that I had only received that award BECAUSE of sympathy for my medical condition.

[@harmonygordon6901]

Abigail is one of my very favorite people. Thank you for having her on again. FANTASTIC 👏 👏 👏 👏

[@monizalez]

I’m currently in university studying psychology and education and working toward becoming a teacher, and this interview has been immensely insightful! Thank you Jordan Peterson 🙏

[@jefflaurens9673]

Jordan Peterson is a true treasure to our generation and the generations he has and will impact. Praise God for this man. He provides a truth you can truly relish in, that grows you, and a truth that rings like a bell in the darkness of this generation...and it's not "his truth" it's THE truth.

[@AG-ng8gt]

I'm a Psychotherapist and I couldn't agree more with this. I'm embarrassed by most of my profession. It's becoming politicized and unscientific. I'm looking for other occupations because I am frustrated, and also because I live in a very liberal state so I think it's just a matter of time before they take my license. When I completed grad school, I thought "I've found what I was meant to do." Now, I'm disillusioned and ready to call it quits.

[@sarahbell3038]

I was diagnosed at 12 with an anxiety disorder. Bi-polar( only because my addicted father was, and my mom didnt want to deal with a prepubescant girl.) The bipolar was a misdignosis. Almost everyone says that now. I have also had an ED, a serious substance issue and OCD. I think so much of this is true. In rehab almost every young person had a diagnosis from a young age. Depression, anxiety or adhd. And they were never taught skills. We were taught to live in our pain. I have frequently thought some similar things as this podcast, it is validating. I have contributed a lot of my issues to my mental health treatment that started as a young child.

[@dranreb1118]

Therapy culture has really damaged teens. If I were an evil therapist Id be rejoicing at the number of kids who have these overbloen traumas and anxieties. Really interested to listen to this

[@TracyD2]

It’s almost like they are proud of their diagnosis. It makes them special or gives them a pass for poor behavior.

[@woozledog]

​@TracyD2 and phrases like "I'm scared" or "I'm panicking" become a casual descriptor in their everyday speech.. In place of something normal like "wow" or "that's weird" Been a step dad for almost 10 years. She calls me dad :> But it's been a battle.. The battle for me, turns out, was me Not putting my foot down Hard. I was subverted really, subconsciously by her mom. She would take anyone's advice over mine. I put a stop to all that, demanded I be allowed to become the best dad I can be, and things immediately improved. Her mom is not built to be able to stomp out ridiculous ideas and destructive behavior. Hard for her to even see it in her *only child. Luckily for me, I Have failed at and squandered so much in my life that I can handle failure and find a solution. Also lucky for me that I ended up here :3 Now I'm schooling her on the lies about history, patriarchy, racism, everything. Inevitably instilling hope for the future of the planet and more importantly, for her

[@Patson20]

I've literally had "pro therapy" women tell me that their ex not cleaning the dishes was as legitimate a trauma as watching someone die from gunshot wounds. She said she even had flashbacks and trauma responses to it 🤣

[@gwenboland7678]

Two of my most favorite people. Ms. Shrier is such a brave woman and very thorough in her fact finding. So glad she is willing to tackle such sensitive issues and bring them to public attention.

[@georgesoros6415]

This woman has a mellifluous voice. If this writing gig don't work out, she could do voiceover for Disney, at the very least. She should at least have a radio show.

[@kayteekattt]

I can tell you, as someone who struggled socially as an outcast for all of grade school, that my confidence and self-esteem were validated and boosted in healthy meaningful ways, to me, when i played baseball, kickball, tag etc. Because I was that kid that got picked last. So when I would do very well every time I played, it took the hurt and sting of that away. It was fun, my team almost always won, and I knew that I contributed to that. It was one of the things I could look forward to on any given school day. One of the things that helped me through the nightmare most of it was. I don't say nightmare lightly. They all knew I was athletically gifted and still I was picked last. They didn't care that I would help their team win. I was treated like a leper or worse ignored. But in spite of that I could still enjoy those moments. It taught me to see the good through the bad. It was something for me to feel good about, when that was in short supply. It also teaches a person what they're good at. So perhaps down the line they can continue to pursue it as a genuine interest that enriches their lives. Why would you want to deny someone that opportunity? It also teaches you to not be a sore loser. To not be upset about it. To not form bitterness and envy in association with not performing as well as others. To know that you did your best and be ok with it. To learn that you can still have fun participating in a team sport, even if you're not the best. To be happy and cheer for someone doing well. The rest of the world and adult life isn't going to coddle and protect your feelings when you get out there. They don't care. You are literally crippling children and then sending them out into a world they are wholly unprepared to navigate. That's a shame and it should be a crime.

[@Anakynblade88]

Amazing how much of what is being discussed resonates with me. I remember when I was 10, never had a nanny, my parents would string the key to the house around my neck (so we wouldn’t lose it) and off my merry way I would go. During the summer vacation when they told me that I had to be home by ten at night, that time felt infinite. From the 1st grade at school, I walked alone. And that was amazing, I would not change my childhood for what kids receive today. Wonderful conversation. Thank you for making it possible to listen to it.

[@angielogan1923]

Yes I want my first grader to walk to the bus, it's almost a mile but only two farms away. The school said it's illegal to let him leave the property alone so I can't let him walk anymore.

[@brentdillon7406]

Jordan was here in Wichita Kansas. I went to the wonderful lecture were it was sold out with 3 standing ovations. He was wonderful as always. My friends work at a local experimental school here in town called wonder. Jordan happened to show up at the school to say hi. I can't say more about this man he was a hero before but now he means even more to me and our community. Thank you so much for being you Jordan. Much love to you and your family hope you make you way to Wichita again!!

[@williambarron4755]

I think that Dr Schrier is about the most insightful person I’ve seen Dr Peterson interview. These two are brave people

[@akadaafrica5841]

I think Jordan should have allowed Abigail speak more, I actually wanted to hear her speak on what she found. It woulf be nice if Jordan doesn't overpower the conversation. I get he's passionate but if you're gonna bring a guest then allow them airtime to actually speak 😏

[@AbbaJoy1]

I heard her yesterday on Relatable with Allie ...... On the same subject, bad therapy.

[@innanbordes2018]

So true! It was more about him than her.

[@alicyamatheson7877]

As an elder millennial I see the beginnings of this from my age group. The memes of looking around for an adult, realizing you're the adult.. look around for an adultier adult.

[@lisaskatesIRL]

Say it louder for the people in the back! Amazing conversation! I've been saying the same for YEARS!

[@debbielondon1809]

Me too. And the number of teachers and social workers with not a great deal between their ears, think they know everything. Dangerous! (UK)

[@margaretbenhamu7784]

There is a wonderful parenting book called “The Blessings of a Skinned Knee” that talks about lot about building resilience in kids and letting them fail. I used it so much to guide my ideas as a parent 20 years ago when raising my kids. We need to bring that one back for this generation!

[@rebekahmontesdeoca565]

I read this book, I recommend it!

[@katieekandrews]

I am a first time mother of an almost 10 month old boy, and I definitely can recognize that cusp of infancy to toddlerhood he is in now, and by God, is it terrifying. It has been, and will continue to be such an honour to watch him grow. Thank you Dr. Peterson for the analogy to Our Lady's sacrifice to the sacrifice that every mother has to make. As a Catholic, that is such a relevant way to view motherhood that will absolutely shape how I view my role as a mother from here on out. Thank you to you both for this conversation.

[@UberGringo]

Shared with my teen daughters. You explained this in terms that dropped their jaws.

[@AlexandriPatris]

I was in 3rd grade in 1984. By that age, I was riding my bike to school with my little sister (3 years younger). I had to be driven when I moved up to middle school, but it was across town and close to my dad's office.

[@rika6767]

Dear Abigail and Jordan. This was by far the most informational podcast I listened to. Brilliant. ❤🎉

[@dwaynelapierre3177]

Our world needs these conversations !

[@lmr3639]

Abigail and Jordan, an intellectual match made in heaven.

[@TFJ2024]

This is absolutely profound. What a wonderful podcast definitely eye opening.

[@psychshell4644]

I work with elementary school-aged clients at their schools. I use a solution focused brief therapy model coupled with play, art, or mindfulness to promote self-efficacy & problem solving. Most of my clients' parents are the ones who need to be in therapy.

[@PittontheMove]

This is one of the best talks of why this generation of kids are the way they are. Bringing all different aspects of why this is happening.

[@iurysl]

This conversation is hugely important. I wish all fathers and mothers watch it attentively.

[@DIVISIONINCISION]

Will be seeing Dr. Peterson speak in Dallas in April. Tickets almost gone!

[@stephthinks3109]

Can you please make a school for psychotherapists? We need to be able to fight against this and unite with our own theoretical orientations that actually helps

[@girlwithapearlofwisdom]

I saw a psychologist for a couple of months in my early 20s, who did so much damage to me. The opposite of listening. The opposite of support. It took me years to try again and trust a psychologist- which was bad because I really did need therapy. I found out after someone else I'd known had also tried seeing her and received questionable advice. The kicker is she frequently went on about how important she was because she was a lecturer at the university. Not only was she treating people, but training the next generation of psychologists. Eventually I tried again and have a good psychologist I can trust has my best interests at heart, not her own self-importance

[@Patson20]

The most narcissistic women I went to school with became therapists. The mean girls became nurses, the mean girls who couldn't pass A&P became high school English teachers, and the mean girls who couldn't pretend enough to deal with that many people at once became therapists.

[@elainehiggins713]

@@Patson20Not fond of women? You might have an issue.

[@mc.8391]

Abigail schrier holds her own with Jordan Peterson sticking to the points she wished to make.......I enjoy her arguements she is spot on.

[@stevehardy7584]

36.20 "In the absence of that, you concentrate on yourself" is the danger Viktor Frankl referred to as "hyper-reflection". Meaning is the key to mental health and is found in our relationship to the world around us. Frankl calls this "self-transcendence". Obsessing about myself and "how I'm feeling" is an example of hyper-reflection, which leads towards existential frustration, and then, without a corrective, to an existential vacuum. At that point, there is no recovery without help. When that help takes the form of therapy provided by the type of narcissistic, ideological social worker types talked about in this brilliant conversation, the "help" does more harm than good.

[@autumnmccomas]

I bought this book after listening to the JP podcast. Happy another book is coming

[@johnbaker6125]

I was thinking something and at the 50-minute mark and Dr. Peterson said it. The other thought in my head came out at the 55-minute mark. I am glad I was raised with 3 brothers and parents who weren't afraid to let us fail and learn from our failures. They only guided us along the way and kept the wolves at bay.