Badge Engineering: Why do carmakers share models? | Deep Drive Podcast Ep.3 | Autocar India

The new Urban Cruiser Taisor is Toyota's version of the Maruti Suzuki Fronx. The Invicto is Maruti's version of the Toyota Innova Hycross. The Terrano was Nissan's version of the Renault Duster. The list of badge engineered products is long. But why do carmakers share models? That's the top of discussion on this week's Deep Drive podcast. Hormazd Sorabjee and Sergius Barretto weigh in.
0:00 - Introduction
1:25 - Why badge engineer?
5:04 - Badge engineering doesn't always work
6:55 - Getting badge engineering right
11:45 - The question of service
12:38 - Brand perception
Deep Drive Podcast | Autocar India
Listen Now:
Spotify: spoti.fi/44re4Z5
Apple Podcast: apple.co/4dm563o
Amazon Music: amzn.to/4blq94k
SUBSCRIBE to Autocar India for the hottest automotive news and the most comprehensive reviews ► bit.ly/AutocarInd
Autocar India is your one-stop source for test drive reviews & comparison tests of every new car and motorcycle launched in India. We also offer a great mix of other automotive content, including weekly news, motor show reports, travelogues and other special features.
Website: www.autocarindia.com
Facebook: / autocarindiamag
Instagram: / autocar_india
Twitter: / autocarindiamag
New car reviews ►bit.ly/ACI-NewCarReviews
Comparison tests ►bit.ly/ACI-Comparison
New bike reviews ►bit.ly/ACI-BikeReviews
Features ►bit.ly/ACI-Features
#autocarindia #badgeengineering #podcast #deepdrive #deepdrivepodcast

[@btarunr1]

You guys were polite not to bring up Toyota's biggest disaster in India--the Yaris. They convinced themselves they had a car to compete with the Honda City and Hyundai Verna.

[@subhashchandrabose7346]

Yaris is not a bad car atall. Only problem is its a boring car without outright excelling its peers in any way, hence it could not make a mark. But customers credit it as a good family allrounder car

[@arunkris7299]

Why yaris failed ?

[@marshallmarthes]

I hate the fact that all these companies don't really launch their international models in India and have a substandard model just for the Indian market, that too at exuberantly expensive pricing

[@pankaj7116]

You are missing an important point, which is the export market. Outside India, Toyota brand is miles ahead of Suzuki and i can say in the middle east (UAE, Saudi, Oman,Qatar)Toyota urban cruiser sales far outweigh maruti grand vitara sales... So in export markets, toyota is gaining big.

[@nishant4262]

100%, Agree. I've seen multiple made in India Vitz, urban cruiser, etc.. in South Africa. They are smartly utilising their manufacturing capacity in india

[@bengeorge9063]

There's Urban Cruisers on sale in the gulf ? Just checked it out. They even offer the 1.5L 4 cylinder petrol! And the other cars. Jesus, the car selection in India is shit! I just don't understand their thinking.

[@arunvelayudhan7105]

They could have avoided the Rumion though.

[@AutoKay]

Thanks Autocar for taking this initiative. Good topics with deep insights are getting covered as well with Autocar professionalism. What else could one ask for?

[@sergiusbarretto]

Thank you

[@muhammedkhandookhee4631]

Excellent Topic. Here over in South Africa, the opposite is true. We get all the rebadged Suzuki products as well, and Toyota is dominating in the small car budget/Value for money segment. Toyota rebadged cars out sell the original Suzuki cars, with a shorter warranty and service plans and even some features ommitted. That's the brand power of Toyota in our country. I bought the Suzuki Baleno though as it was better value for money. Suzuki currently in RSA is also going through it's best phase ever with all it's products 🎉

[@vinayakbahl9422]

Two very smart car gurus doing a great podcast to educate people. Of course Mr Hormazd Sorabjee is the OG of Indian automotive journalism. Thank you sir.

[@Agmhd]

Most of the people don’t know about this Rebadged cars in India except car enthusiasts and it’s a good thing for Toyota😂

[@Rajakumar-qi9mv]

Because of rebadging Toyota actually losing their faith , reliability and goodwill in India ,,, I guess,,,,,

[@rajanicn9269]

No It isn't Toyota is showing its best sales till now , as he said , the end customer doesn't really care even if its the same car and it reflects on the sales

[@harishdeshpande1159]

You guess wrong sir, Suzuki is even more reliable in terms of service and resale. Suzuki may not be as premium but certainly reliable and commands goodwill.

[@sagar5251]

Rather than exiting from Indian market they are trying something atleast, they might launch new models on their own if this partnership gets successful for them.

[@sivakumarbalasubramanian5925]

It's clear 40 percent hike in sales 😂 no sentiment pure business just cry.

[@fitnesswithallen]

All that matters is sales . And eventually both are selling good 👍

[@TheManishtehlan]

Looking for Jimny podcast..that would be interesting…specially deep diving the way Maruti squeezing out features they already offer with other Nexa models…like missing on lead me to vehicle headlights feature, central door unlock (driver door only first time, second time all doors) this very important security feature missing in Jimny. Cruise control set speed indicator missing, they have given smartplay pro plus in alpha but question is is it really that….compare to same in other Maruti’s..Jimny doesn’t get Suzuki connect and much more. Not to forget ..features like lead me to vehicle , cruise control indicator set speed are available in the export version.

[@aadityaacharya4]

It's a pleasure listening to Hormazd sir. So much to learn from his experience!

[@shaunakmankeshwar9527]

It was really informative podcast from the Autocar team. As an audience, I would like to suggest that Autocar should also dissect the working of brands like MG and their models Astor and Hector. They are struggling with MG comet, and there were many rumours about the company in the market too. I hope the team considers the suggestion. Thanks.

[@travellertripper]

Also please discuss on why the carmakers should also share service networks..(esp for skoda and volkswagen )??This will really improve customer retention esp in tier 2 ,3 cities where there are not much service networks. Waiting for jimny podcast...personally a 3 door jimny is the need for indian market,a tru successor ,rebading as GYPSY :)

[@chiragleuva348]

Could have been more subject focused podcast with lesser repetition of the same thing over and over again. it's good that there is a successful brand engineering in present day but you guys should deep dive more on history and how these brand partnerships have evolved in past and how current brand partnerships can evolve in future should be in focus. Always scope for improvement, appreciate the effort in trying to do this.

[@kallully]

Toyota thinks they are very brilliant which they are upto some extend. But they are arrogant enough to mock the Indian customers

[@zainalizaidi5852]

Interesting conversation!,Badge engineering decoded and discussed!, Thanks Team Autocar Deepdrive!👍

[@Chirag.1502]

Thank you Sergius and Hormazd for the great insights!

[@kostinarain7373]

It works in this case,also Skoda/VW..nobody else has been able to make it work

[@PrashanthSadashivan]

Thanks for the insights both! Would be great to hear your thoughts on Maruti's (generally sub-standard) performance in global NCAP ratings vs other brands - this is an issue of interest given Maruti sells one in two cars India. Also how will this change (if at all) with the GoI drawing up Indian standards for the same?

[@puneethgowda3717]

Talking about the jimny I think it's low sales are down to it being a proper enthusiast's offering and not a family pleaser like all Maruti's are plus you got thar at the other end which as become more of a fashion statement on the road for many buying it.

[@mohamedsamir7342]

I agree with you. I have an ertiga and am looking for a replacement in a year or two as it is diesel. I did not go to Maruti but instead went to Toyota to look for Rumion although I know it is a Toyota version of Ertiga. But to me, It looked better. Similarly one of my friends had bought Glanza the new model since to him it looked better than Baleno. In the case of older generations Glanza and Baleno, I would not have preferred Glanza as they looked almost the same.

[@ilollipop100]

You need to look at the markets outside of India... Toyota has massive brand presence in some places Suzuki isn't nearly as big. In South Africa they're selling rebadged cheapies at a rate... We have a few. Vitz, Starlet and Glanza

[@vivekmishra6400]

Very well conducted podcast and useful from a consumer pov.

[@sergiusbarretto]

Thank you

[@harishdeshpande1159]

I love this podcast

[@bluejar5614]

Personally I have steered away at least four people who were going to buy a rebadged maruthi thinking it was a Toyota.

[@charishraju]

GM perfected the art of badge engineering for decades now

[@ddr57]

Autocar should do a case study about Toyota's failure to establish itself as a market leader in India, in terms of volumes. The global no. 1 car maker, with a plethora of models straddling all price points, couldn't go head to head with Maruti Suzuki, and beyond. Why? Hyundai, on the other hand, was able to carve out its own market, and Tata Motors too, is giving M-S a run for its money. I feel that Toyota (and for that matter, VAG too) treated the Indian customer and market with disdain, believing that they knew better what their customers needed, rather than asking them what they wanted. That's where the Koreans hit the nail on the head. Rather unfortunate, considering that the Japanese are supposed to be experts at listening to the voice of the customer. 😢

[@subhashchandrabose7346]

People just started realising this is a great decision by Toyota. Also the cars they are rebranding like the Baleno and fronx are good proven products and Indians have a strong faith for their reliability. Toyota have realised that they cannot make a winning small car with good QDR with competitive pricing. Remember that they failed to do that with the etios and even the Yaris. And this is their strength that they realise this fact quickly and patnered with their Japanese peer.

[@HunterVlog350cc]

Toyota and suzuki partnership is called- Synergy where each one fills other's loopholes and they take the market jointly by expanding their foothold.

[@ak77z]

Toyota have such good products with good design cars like - RAV 4, Avanza, Rush, Yaris Hatchback, Yaris Cross, Corrolla Cross, Toyota Veloz, Toyota Voxy!!! Corolla Hatchback. They can beat Maruti, Hyundai, Kia with such products with their strong hybrid technology and reliability,

[@SimpleThingsOne]

I own a skoda kushaq, recently went on a trip in his baleno with a friend from pune to nagpur, mileage that car gave was twice of my kushaq, point is maruti suzuki cars are more efficient, so people who buy them once or friends who bought them, they are ready to buy maruti suzuki cars again. honestly, apart from safety pov I can understand why.

[@funti23]

Please do a podcast on tata motors, punch nexon ev sales and future launches, please!

[@sarveshlr110]

Engines, Transmissions, and a few more is already shared by Jeep, Tata, Chevrolet, Fiat, Suzuki. End game is scale of manufacturing to keep design and tooling well amortised

[@venukrithish007]

I don't understand what's the problem. Toyota never cared abt India so them selling maruti's to ensure they stay in India is totally ok with me. They can't sell just Innovas and Fortuners. This setup keeps the dealerships happy and is good for business

[@subhashchandrabose7346]

Yes bro. Also the cars they are rebranding like the Baleno and fronx are good proven products and Indians have a strong faith for their reliability. Toyota have realised that they cannot make a winning product in the budget cars segment with good QDR; remember that they failed to do that with the etios and even the Yaris. And this is their strength that they realise this fact quickly and patnered with their Japanese peer.

[@inthevoidreality]

100% valid point 👍

[@014hariomghore3]

If possible case study on Honda

[@Ayush-yn3np]

What about maruti augusta ??

[@mostwanted_007]

Kiger and Magnite aren't badge engineered products right? They have sheet metal differences and even differecnes in dimensions and packaging

[@dineshy7532]

They r techincally same products...its jus that they differentiated bit more than wat suzukitoyota does...best exmple wud be like VW skoda...evry thing comes under badge engineering

[@ShivaSrikanthSrikanthSrikanth]

Now only we are struggling after electrical car comes where are the three charges not in the petrol bunk

[@Vishnu-B]

I personally think badge engineering is kind of a slap in our (customers') face.

[@scorplibra]

At least Toyota should redesign rear look

[@avinashsahu338]

New podcast about Toyota & Maruti strong Hybrid and EV roadmap. How the brands would evolve.

[@autocarindia1]

Here you go! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mZywdaaYetSVY80si=R1QgO8yB__3oWBF8

[@getcsv]

The real problem I have seen with my own experience is that Toyota is losing it's quality of its products post these joint badge engineering with Suzuki.

[@diyasumijoy]

great

[@RAVISONI-yi5rk]

Over the past decade prices of all the cars has increased considerably

[@rahulrk8789]

@ Autocar If Tata Motors were to plan a partnership, who do you think they would choose to partner with?

[@sivakumarbalasubramanian5925]

Good Mechanics 😂

[@rohanagarwal6848]

Tincqn perception has bought the market share of Maruti Suzuki from 51% to nearly 42% or 45%

[@dineshnegi4895]

My question is this how much percentage profits Maruti make s given there car to Toyota

[@sriharsha971]

16:40 Spoke the ultimate truth !! A subtle slap for all those self proclaimed “enthusiasts” on YT & Insta ! Well they are just some basic dudes with a smartphone & free internet !!

[@chatshd]

Toyota models not joint ventures sell like hot cakes all over the world. Excessive import duties are hurting automobile innovation period.

[@ravirajminawala9809]

I feel toyota needs to launch toyota exclusive models in India..

[@90zkid]

Once a legend said " Kauve ko chahe jitna bhi washing machine me dho lo, hans nhi ban sakta". Same applies here, at the end a suzuki will be a suzuki. It will never get to toyota levels. Toyota is just minting money on its brand value.

[@ashua4488]

In social media people are happy Volkswagen and Skoda share their cars Hyundai and Kia share their cars, Nissan and Renault share their cars but when Suzuki and Toyota does every one thinks Toyota is Losing its brand value and they are lazy.

[@rahulgolikeri1187]

The etios and etios were great cars for those who wanted good reliable cars and not gizmos...

[@srs.shashank]

Toyota Maruti should replqce the Ertiga with the Qualis it could be a good competition to the Scorpio.

[@kanwar061]

Tayota should launch brezza re badge version again with land cruiser 90 edition and with AWD 😂😂

[@sagarsansare572]

give it time, toyota brand is going to lose value as these cars go through service cycles and maruti quality starts showing up

[@rajeshvaidya4190]

Innova changed to Invicto

[@harshalpalhal7275]

I would like to object sir regarding your review on Etios I totally disagree etios was a failure. If we see the cab space it is 80% filled with Etios Aslo if one plans to buy a used Etios today he has to search a lot and if found one he has to Pay a hefty Price for a Mi h old etios iteration

[@shankarbalan3813]

I think Maruti’s stance on its Jimny and Swift is perfectly justifiable. After all these are icons in themselves. And even if they decide someday to cross sell Jimny and Swift under a Toyota badge, I don’t think that alone is going to make consumers buy the Jimny. The Jimny is a niche product. It will always only appeal to a few. Especially in India, where a large majority buys SUV type vehicles mainly based on size and bulk - ‘real estate’ and ‘road presence’.

[@navinfernandes747]

Toyota was known for quality and reliability.. not sure if they are ruining it..

[@lagankhurana]

What about the renault logan and mahindra verito?

[@M4NA5]

All cars sold in India are crap, from Alto all the way to dated Fortuner. Terrible build quality, lacklustre interiors, and horrendous after sales service.

[@someordinarystan2692]

What colour is your Bugatti?😂😂

[@kostinarain7373]

And where are they not crap? 😂😂you live in Switzerland?

[@sivakumarbalasubramanian5925]

😂

[@johngulbarga9913]

Why brezza is not rebadge by Toyota

[@dineshy7532]

They answerd in this video..watch it again

[@dhanrajsaboo790]

Urban cruiser was brezza right?

[@Goodwinisback]

I believe Toyota has gained more than Maruti They were really struggling to survive in Indian market, other thab Innova nothing was selling actually. And for the Invicto, I would say people will always go with Toyota Only gain for Maruti could be the hybrid engines and may be some kind of image upliftment. Customers might think as Toyota is selling Maurti cars probably these cars are really good

[@surajnayak136]

Car Sales figures should be split between White and yellow number plate sales

[@abhishekaman1992]

Does toyota manfacture these rebadged cars in their own factories, or does maruti does the badging for toyota by making these cars in maruti's factory? And vice versa.

[@ap5218]

OEMs are burden with taxes hence they r not interested in selling quality reliable car

[@nishantgurjar7232]

Mahindra and TaTa should do the same

[@navardev]

Because of stupid policies and regulations in auto industry by our government, foreign auto makers want to play safe.they are not here for charity purpose.they also want to make profit which is not possible in our country right now (my opinion).

[@nilaysingh3585]

Ita fine to rebadge some models...it's just Toyota need to be selective with maruti models

[@Jacknjellify531.]

Toyota rebadging suzuki cars is a bad idea.

[@Ajay.Saw88]

I always wanted to own a car from Toyota but since I heard about its rebadge engineering with Maruti Suzuki, I am losing the faith

[@premkiranhp]

Toyota doesn’t want to invest in India, customers in India are blindly following the Toyota brand. Tata, Mahindra, Maruti Suzuki, Hyundai, Kia, VW/Skoda are the only brands investing in new models in India. Hence, according to me we must support these brands against Toyota and Honda.

[@nihalrashidkp6658]

Toyota guarded Crysta and gave away Innova hycross to Maruti. Makes no sense

[@NomadBenny]

Etios was very good car.😢

[@chandergadhvi5107]

Toyota not selling Pirus, Corolla Altis, Corolla Cross, Yaris Cross in India so we should boycott Toyota for treating us badly. Only Camry,Innova and Fortuner are for rich people. Nothing for the middle class. Let wait for Tesla and BYD to knock them out of business.

[@fardheen5749]

laziest manufactures in india toyota,honda,vw and skoda.

[@anantbambawale9276]

This is India people are not concerned about quality and safety. Toyota cars are over engineered on these two counts so they sell worlwide. In India they only want looks and price and cost of maintenence that Maruti offers. Hence Toyota chooses the Maruti way to stay afloat.

[@AlhadMahabal]

Why would I buy a Toyota from Maruti and Maruti from Toyota? Especially when the exact same original car is available. All this so called badge engineering is stupid from a common consumers' point of view. Also there is no engineering involved in removing the other badge and pasting yours...

[@mgcorporation405]

Both front look is very bad , no one can give front look like Volkswagen

[@abcxyzyt1]

Dear autocar guys, pl. ask Toyota not to fool Indians by selling maruti unsafe cheaply made products. Thanks

[@sivakumarbalasubramanian5925]

Do not buy

[@satishkumarrapeti7604]

Simple logic, they can order various components from the same ancillary unit, enjoying the large scale economics