D&D Adventure length

[@MoonMoverGaming]

The curse of the one-shot is, if it is any good, the players will want to keep playing it!

[@BanditsKeep]

This is very true

[@salty-nick]

Not the worst curse to have :)

[@ishmiel21]

I totally jsut started a campaign with a wide open sandbox. It started with the characters getting off the boat after a long voyage from the "old world" to the "new world'. The players ended up spending about four hours just exploring the port town they showed up in. They had me on my toes checking notes and creating NPC's for sure. Their characters even paid for a map of the region, so they could've gone anywhere, but they stayed in town pretty much the entire session. Players will be players lol

[@krinkrin5982]

That map is just about the perfect thing to drop a dozen or more adventure hooks in front of them without being too in your face. Here's a simple trick I use to come up with names quickly: most people have their occupation as their family name. If that is not the case, it began as either a nickname or a place name. For personal names, don't be afraid to repeat them. A lot. In a village of a few dozen people there's bound to be a few Robs or Johns around. They would also usually not have surnames. Make yourself a list of about dozen male and dozen female names you'll be using most. And keep them consistent. Towns can have people with more exotic names.

[@ishmiel21]

@@krinkrin5982 For sure! Having a list of names is always a good idea, and that's a cool trick you mentioned. Thanks!

[@NikolaiCarpathia]

I'm about a 18 months into a West Marches style sandbox set in the Wildlands of Rappan Athuk. The intention was to have them mostly explore the megadungeon, but I sprinkled some random things from One Page Dungeons across the Wildlands to keep things interesting and give them a chance to destress between floors. They've spent about 80% of those 18 months exploring the wilderness. I may have been a BIT too liberal with the sprinkles. But we're all having a great time, so task failed successfully.

[@Lanessar8008]

I just threw together a quick hexcrawl with like a dozen one-page dungeons and basically "Keep on the Borderlands" contained in about 1/3rd of the map. I wrote down around 15 or so scenario hooks, made 3-4 factions, a quick outline of them and how they interacted, an over arching IDEA, and then let the players run about. First adventures were one-shots, like "The Delian Tomb" all held together on the same map and loosely with the same NPCs, etc. Ten sessions later, it officially became a "campaign", but before this the players just kept showing up so I'd run the next thing - no "cliffhangers", plenty of scenario hooks and rumors, nothing too invasive. Shadowdark has been great for this, the 5E players and newbies (2) and one 3E player have loved it.

[@worldbigfootcentral3933]

The answer to "what is the meaning of the universe and everything?" is 42. The answer to "How many pages in a module?" is 32, by Gygaxian decree...

[@BanditsKeep]

Good to know 😀

[@nonsinergizza25]

Nice thing to know is that paizo publishes anything from 1 hour scenario, to one shots, to 3 levels long adventures of various levels, to 1-20 adventure paths

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks, I did not know that, I always hear about the long adventure paths - I’ll have to check out some of the other stuff

[@bencejoful]

Pathfinder Society Scenarios is what to search for for 4-5 hour adventures

[@Porphyrogenitus1]

"You're in a village, there's a volcano erupting" We see if Tom Hanks & Meg Ryan are there. They might have some lore for how to handle things like this.

[@BanditsKeep]

😂

[@danielrowan4716]

Daniel - Love this topic. I have been running games with the same group since ‘89. We’ve done it all. One-shots, long campaigns and multiple session modules. We are currently running a “true” sandbox centered around I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City - the sandboxiest of sandboxes. Even in such a scenario, I provide threads they can pull but do not have to and there is a “main” storyline with a timer running. That helps create a sense of urgency and agency at the same time. Their decisions in game / world have real impact. We’ve been playing it for almost 5yrs (we only get about 6 sessions in per year with the assembled group with various side adventures for individuals, pairs or even a triplet. It’s been a great run.

[@zeroDragao]

My campaign is over 3 years old at this point, playing 1-2 sessions per month. My goalposts per # of sessions have been WAY off. I predicted the current chapter of the campaign would be 6-8 session and we are on session 34 of the chapter. No one's complaining - we roleplay a lot and aren't in a rush.

[@ADT1995]

I like a variety, in my Sunday group I would prefer a shorter adventure, but in my Wednesday group I took an already long adventure module and significantly lengthened it. It just really depends on a number of factors.

[@joelcaron8291]

I am running Becmi (cyclopedia : 1991) since... well 1991. Lastly, I started a one shot for a bithday present... ended up as a weekly game fot the summer. We're having fun crawling dungeons and fighting dragons, wich is the purpose of the game. Becmi is smooth enuff to just have fun and jokes around beside the drama and never ending rules of 5e .. Great channel btw !!

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! Thank you

[@krinkrin5982]

We used to play published modules all the time back in 3e days. After a while I switched to a curated sandbox and never looked back. Play it only with an established group, but when done right, there is always stuff to do and the next problem to solve. The story is emergent and player-driven. I really like both playing in and running a campaign like that instead of a linear scenario. With a new group, I find it best to start with a few one-shots in the same area, before opening the world up for them to explore on their own. For true one-shots, I think the dungeon exploration scenarios are best. Matt's 5-room example dungeon, or D&D 3e's Into the Crypt. They have the perfect length to run in a single session. The goal is clear, the solutions usually straightforward, and the players are discouraged from wasting time faffing about.

[@zaclassiterdrums]

I’ve seen the sound panels slowly building up behind you over the years, I went back and watched some old videos and boy they make a difference 😂

[@BanditsKeep]

Ha ha, yeah, I’m always tweaking them

[@wakjagner]

I like to do what I call a Season. Typically 6-8 session, tighter story with generally clear narrative tone and direction (to facilitate the shorter adventure). I also try to structure the sessions to feel episodic, so there's events that close out in 1 or 2 sessions, while still carrying the larger story arc. This works well for my groups general desire for a structured story. We tend to lose steam on sandbox pretty fast. My favorite module is for an older R Talsorian Game, Invasion Terra (Mech Manual 1, I think) for Mekton, it lays out events, and maps, and some groundwork for potential characters, but it's focus is more on describing the events of a war to be handled over 8-12 sessions, with room between for the gm to do what they feel the party wants.

[@Andre99328]

I am a campaign guy; the longer the better. That said, following the story only is exhausting for everyone. So, I like small side quests from one to three game sessions long as DM and as a player. I loved those one-page adventures in the city of Greyhawk box; and I like particularly single-sceens, which are playing on one site, such as a tavern, where you have to talk to some NPCs with a short story and mybe one combat encounter. My favoured modules to start a campaign with are those with a town as starting point and a longer story, such as ToeE. We started 'The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh' three years ago and that is a fantastic start, with all the relations between players and the townfolk developing over time. And we played the entire trilogy. We are still playing this campaign and it is a lot of fun.

[@rickijoyner2171]

I started my players off with a one-shot (open ended) the adventure itself was complete but lots of threads and rumours for a wider world. This campaign is more of a sandbox where they can pick and choose what adventures/quests to pursue and go for, with the world wheels keep turning and evolving around them, so if they clear out an old iron mine, they may notice cost of iron weapons and armour have come down in the region due to more resources, as well as having more personal character quests prepped and ready for when they are wanting something more focused. Which is why the conversation (session 0) is extremely important before playing so everyone is happy and agreed upon what they are wanting or can commit too

[@jnov3655]

Excellent video. I just started Keep on the Borderlands using ACKS 2e for the system. As you know it's very much sand boxy and the players and myself are having a good time with it.

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome, great adventure

[@ChristnThms]

Great synopsis. One thing I think is important to add about the "true sandbox" is that the DM still needs to come up with encounters and hooks and stuff... consistently. If you (the DM) have a bunch of set situations in your world, but the characters are wandering around without direction, the most likely result is that nothing ever happens and the players have no reason to do this or that over anything else.

[@Vehl]

While I own a lot of modules across many editions of D&D, I can honestly say we have never really ran one as written. Most of the time I run a sandbox game in a homebrewed world. I have hundreds of pages of notes, and maps I have drawn out with notations on what is located where. I will also throw in a series of events that will kick off after a certain period of time, weather or not the party does anything about it and let them choose. I ran a game weekly like this for about 4 years before people moving, and time commitments got in the way. Now if I can find an in person game, its usually a one shot, something that you can run with strangers and gauge if you want to spend hours of time with them.

[@DGB_Smyth]

Thank you thank you for doing this video! After watching Matt's video, Bob the Worldbuilder, and Prof DM, it still wasn't perfectly clear to me on different adventure lengths and types. I'm a new GM (only 2 years) and you summed it up brilliantly for me! I realized that I did a a small few stories (oneshots) and it turned into a sandbox campaign of almost 2 years. You've really helped me formulate a theory around how to set adventure length and how it means. Thank you!

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome!

[@messi10goat864]

Daniel, firstly, everything from your content to your discord is absolutely amazing! Great job! Secondly, what I've started doing to satisfy the world builder in me is period pieces. I'll build a world, start in antiquity, iron Age, medieval, renaissance, pirate age and finish. It's also a good way for your players to have their past characters written in the history of the world. Great video and thank you!

[@BanditsKeep]

That’s a great idea

[@SkrillDisc]

I started my group with The Lost Mine of Phandelver. I even weaved my own side quests into it and fleshed them out depending on how the players completed them. The devil from my home brew side quest messed up Phandalin and ran off with a bag of soul coins.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@bromossunstarranger8706]

thank you for nailing down the different types of games there are to playing in this hobby

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks for watching

[@georgelaiacona111]

Another great video, Daniel. I also think part of this is reading your group. Do your players lose attention, then one-shots and shorter adventures are the rule. Chances are, if you have been playing a long time together, a continuous campaign is the theme. The Keep on the Borderlands is an Excellent starter, as it The Isle of Dread. Every other campaign I have ran or played in was a custom game. My friend Greg, a GM since the '70s, has the ultimate sandbox since he's been working on material for decades, a half century at this point. I haven't gotten that much together myself. Thanks for this.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@moodymac]

Sandboxes are best when starting out crossing a desert.

[@underfire987]

Keep up the great videos its impressive how constantly you can keep banging out such great ideas

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks! I appreciate that.

[@emarsk77]

With my group we mostly play "kinda one-shots" ("few-shots"?). Our sessions are usually quite short, sometimes less than two hours, occasionally we manage to squeeze in a true one-shot but usually we need two or more sessions to finish an adventure, unless it's extremely basic. We also like to try different games and styles (not only OSR) and rotate the GM role, and our schedule is quite erratic, so we don't plan long campaigns either. However, with some recurring games we play the same roster of PCs, so the adventures can be connected into an emerging campaign.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice

[@SpiritWolf1966]

I enjoy all of Bandit’s Keep videos 🎉😅😊

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@dantherpghero2885]

I LOVE ALL Bandit's Keep videos! Even if he's a bit loose with the phrase True Sandbox.

[@BanditsKeep]

😂 thanks

[@sleepinggiant4062]

Games dying a slow death at level 7 or so was our tables biggest complaint. We never got to play to high level because the DM would get burnt out, and someone else would run a different game, and it would happen all over again. When the Adventure Paths came out, it was great. The DM didn't run out of content, and we had an end to the game at high level. The 5e books are working well for us as well. We do mix in some one shots on occasion, but it's been a while.

[@xavierp7658]

New favorite DnD KZbinr!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@khastilrist]

Your videos are always awesome, thanks

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@DirkEsterline-q7j]

Thanks Daniel. Always enjoy your content!

[@BanditsKeep]

My pleasure!

[@shadomain7918]

Agree about one shots. I run a lot of these at Cons and FLGS, and there has to be a certain amount of setup and ending rails. It's the concession that you have to give in order to get to a satisfying ending in time

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@AndyReichert0]

wow! i think (maybe i'm wrong) this is the first time you've mentioned other youtubers. i love the crossover space between the 5e crowd and the osr crowd. 5e-only or osr-only channels aren't as much fun. they focus so much on their way of playing. i like you, bob, and dungeoncraft because you're insightful and practical for all DMs.

[@BanditsKeep]

Good point, I think the vast majority of KZbinrs I watch touch on a range of games and editions. I like the variety.

[@vercingetorix721]

For one shots I’ve had the best luck with a setup of three “scenes” and a max of two potential combats. It’s can be very tricky, especially when players create their own red herrings 😂 “Hey that guy is wearing a funny hat! I KNOW he’s involved with this!” Awesome video as always

[@BanditsKeep]

Funny hats are always a sign!

[@logophilelyss4390]

Among my group, those "kind of one-shots" that take 3-4 "episodes" are often called "month-shots"

[@BanditsKeep]

I like that “month-shots” should definitely be a thing!

[@jojozxc1234]

I ran Against the Cult of the Reptile God as my first adventure, and I did it in 5e, which I do not recommend doing when you are just started DMing (i did run a couple of 5 room dungeons before that.) Anyways, when the adventure was over, I told the players that it would be semi-sandbox from then on. There would be a main villain for the adventure, but you’re free to explore the world and follow whatever interests you, but the villain’s plans proceed as normal.

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice - I started that module but never finished a few years back

[@jojozxc1234]

@@BanditsKeep Matt Colville recommended it so I gave it a go. Looking back I think I would run that again differently. I was new. The module doesn’t have hooks, so it helps me improve a lot in terms of thinking about what brings the players here. The module itself is pretty self-contained imo. You’ve got a town, a temple, and a dungeon in the swamp. Though I cut down a lair of the dungeon because I didn’t think my group would want to spend too much time exploring the whole 2 levels, and I was right.

[@krispalermo8133]

Adventure length, .. a.) Speed pacing, create a short 20minute Role playing plot line that you ran in-between main games changing out in the shop/store. Nick name, mini serial soap opera which ran between movies back in the day. Some people want to run multiple characters but in different style games. Also the short 20minute role/encounter help give a break to new players and would be DMs. Along with Don't Start New Characters or Players at 1st-level. Place them at level or multiclass that fits the story theme setting. If you are good at pacing, you can get three stories out of an hour time. b.) DM just doesn't run the whole N/pc and combat on their own. Although many arguments over the years I heard state the DM should do all of it. Game set up for fast action and index card flow test play rehearsal where it runs like MtG magic the gathering card deck. Hear is the fast choices, " ... Against the .." orcs are brute fighters with shield wall or not. Hobgoblins are ambush and Ogres are ogres with AD&D great weapons due 3d6 against large size creatures. In all collective, the same armor, The same Hp total so lucky Fire Ball gets the job done. Same total Xp for any of the three monster types. So the players liked the Ogres but debated over all class level for action, and should they have a higher-level Ogre Slayer to save them if things go south. Main body of the group wanted Survival Horror, three of them wanted a high-level Ogre Slayer to over kill a hill giant. Needless to say the game went south really quick, and the Ogre Slayers was plague with every bad die roll outcome. One just went with it shrugging luck of the die rolls, another laugh at the irony but he did get four happy over kills hits in. Due to the numbers in the game and moving mini on six chess boards as mapping zone. I start having the dead PC run the Ogres in combat. More than a few like to love the ideal of getting the change to PC ogres. One young early twenty or late teenage play lost it in a prideful outburst about being DONE DIRTY in game play, and started to take it personally. Other players running ogres attacking his lone dwarf. The remaining Ogre Slayer was standing, slow backing away from the table having a rant over the Ogres, then he came to a full stop and looked at the new guy in the shop. " Dude, we all agree for a survival horror one shot which means the only outcome was a TPK. I was Role playing in character, but I wasn't yelling or shout. You need to learn to relax and just chill. Now take an Ogre PC and eat the remaining non ogres in play." After a short break to cool off, two DMs help run a dozen players running ogres attacking, a DM ref two players running three dozen orcs fighting those other players running ogres. It was goofy, childish, cringe, silly, and all-around good time. One player going down a check list of making silly pain sounds as an ogre club takes five orcs down in one swing, well knocks them ridicules into the air.

[@KyleMaxwell]

The “possible campaign starter” or “sorta one shot” are the most successful ways I have started campaigns, to be honest. And if it turns out to be done in 1-3 sessions instead, that’s fine!

[@BanditsKeep]

Same

[@seanfsmith]

Our local club has quarters of twelve weeks each, so most games I run there tends to fit within a single quarter - it usually feels halfway between the potential campaign starter and true sandbox, tho I do hard define the TIME around everything

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@VelliMak]

Very good video and I’ll take some advice from this

[@BanditsKeep]

Awesome, thanks!

[@Marcus-ki1en]

The other thing that makes a great sandbox is that at the end of a one shot, adventure, or campaign, the adventurers go on to the next one with the same characters. Everything does not end because the event is finished.

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure

[@artistpoet5253]

I prefer shorter adventures and sessions mostly because when I started playing I could only play during lunch breaks or after dinner if I was playing with my brother. I just got used to running really tight games and even a so-called sandbox would wrap up in about three sessions averaging around five hours total time played. I solo game too and even those can be completed in about five hours or less.

[@michaelwebb3827]

I mostly find my group playing in a sandbox-ish setting where there is an established area that they know about with existing potential adventures in each locale but not a driving, narrative arc that requires going to any of them in particular order or at all. Many OD&D modules are great starting places for this sort of thing: Keep on the Borderlands, Bone Hill, the area around Salt Marsh. I've also had success just making up an area whole cloth and seeding it with locations of interest, mostly tied to smaller modules as well. We play a couple to a few times a month for maybe 4 hours at a time, it's rare that we have an individual adventure that takes less than 2 sessions, often 3 or more; though we do digress and take our time. I don't mind a micro thing, like a 5 room, if it's a small narrative beat in service to another story beat, but I find that design style way too limiting for regular play. I really don't care for the super grand narrative campaigns in most cases, as I think they lead Judges into traps where they feel compelled to tell the story mostly by the book instead of reactively, altering it to reflect what the party is doing. Big bads are fine, but too many predefined story beats can really kill concepts like this; Rime of the Frostmaiden was a recent one I read and tried to run a bit in 5E and the way the book wanted the DM to force certain events regardless of when the party arrived at given locales or what they had done prior rubbed me the wrong way.

[@israelmorales4249]

Hi Daniel, great vide, thx for the advices!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@Arnsteel634]

Start at noon and play til 2-3AM

[@BanditsKeep]

Nice! As long as I have enough coffee

[@Arnsteel634]

@@BanditsKeep that’s a given

[@jaybakata5566]

Daniel, what is your favorite adventure module to start a campaign? Do you prefer homebrew adventures & campaigns? I have a feeling that using B2 Keep on the borderlands is one of the best. I have never played it, run it, nor do I have it. Just hoping your favorite campaign starter adventure module is something that is still available for purchase. 2 and a half month one shot? Those are my favorite one-shots! Love every video Bandit's Keep does, keep it up. True sandbox? OMG sign me up, sounds amazing!

[@DMmagicmike]

Great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@Josh-g9x]

I love shorter adventures. I just ran dragons of stormreck isle. I get overwhelmed with long campaigns

[@BanditsKeep]

I can understand that

[@Drudenfusz]

My preference is the kinda one-shot, but I call it short campaign. Four up to twelve sessions, with the sweet spot at about 8.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool

[@jamesm9560]

Cool video. Thanks.

[@BanditsKeep]

Thank You!

[@Joshuazx]

Multisession oneshots are illegal. You people are lucky I'm a benevolent evil dictator.

[@BanditsKeep]

😂

[@AnotherMike2]

Thanks for the great video!

[@BanditsKeep]

Thanks for watching

[@AnotherMike2]

⁠I recently delved into ShadowDark and DCC. I find those to be excellent systems and if you haven’t tried or reviewed them, I think it would be cool. Thanks again!

[@Frederic_S]

I GM a very granular sandbox were every Session is a oneshot of the players choosing.

[@BanditsKeep]

Cool - do they decide at the beginning of the session or at some point before then?

[@johnrechtoris9796]

I got started on one-shots then switched into campaigns that would almost always last around a year before fizzling out. Anymore, I just play and run Kinda One-Shots that take 15-20 hours of play time. I have never played one of the big published adventures though.

[@BanditsKeep]

Is that something you’d like to try?

[@johnrechtoris9796]

@@BanditsKeep At some point, sure. For the time being, 5-6 session "mini-campaigns" work really well for our group's scheduling commitments.

[@tomyoung8563]

“You’re taking away my character’s agency “ ruined being a DM for me Time is a finite resource and how many adults have the free time to create something with limitless options?

[@BanditsKeep]

No at many as would like to, that’s for sure

[@Scutifer_Mike]

I enjoy a massive campaign book, but getting to finish them is hard. I prefer the big content 32 pagers of the 80s. Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of dread, the lost city, etc

[@BanditsKeep]

For sure!

[@BanjoSick]

Never liked buying/reading adventures, always wanted regional sourcebooks with info on administration, inhabitants, weathers patterns, foliage, sights of interest, and topography. The adventures just flow to my head from that.

[@BanditsKeep]

That makes sense - I often use old pulp novels as “source books” these days.

[@Draegn]

I run a sandbox, but have something or things for the players to do.

[@BanditsKeep]

Indeed

[@jts8053]

First! 😝

[@sgtbigballs666]

But did you have a purpose? 🤔

[@BanditsKeep]

🏆 well done!

[@freybugbee]

I wish you wouldn't call it "kinda a one-shot" since it's NOT a one-shot. Call it what it is, a module. A one-shot should be written as a one-session adventure. A module is a multi-session adventure. A campaign is an ongoing, long-term adventure with one-shot sessions or a multi-session module spanning several 3-hour sessions. Campaigns have multiple episodes or plots with a beginning, middle, and end until the party moves to another area or discovers a new thread.

[@BanditsKeep]

I’ve talked to numerous people who consider a single module a “one shot” thus I defined my terms, and you had defined yours. Always important in a discussion.