KTM MV Agusta Breakup MotoGP Exit A Deep Dive

[@dawso2o2]

Top dollar for crap , worst customer service I’ve ever experienced. Had to take them to court. So good riddance! They always thought they were above the law

[@Urban.Broccoli]

I just bought my first secondhand KTM 690 yesterday. A dream bike for a decade.Well shit 😂

[@rallyzamora8356]

Poor employees, greed is never good

[@Free_Ranger_CT110]

What happened to the profits? Well, somebody got the gold mine & employees, dealers & owners got the shaft...

[@barebonesmc]

about right sadly

[@terencesingerline135]

Listening to this video it explains the usual happenings we see all to often! Shareholders make huge profits and drive the very companies into bankruptcy..Those executives will move on to destroying another company down the road

[@Nick-Emery]

They got the cam shaft… a chocolate 🍫 one

[@maxflight777]

idiot post ! The dealers are part of the problem

[@barebonesmc]

@@terencesingerline135 hence why as you see in the cuttings that the Austrian government don’t want him anywhere near the fire service equipment company now

[@Stephen-oy7fl]

My sources are saying that KTM is in negative cash flow to the tune of €3 million a day. That does not include any debt servicing nor does it include unpaid wages for December. KTM Australia, a wholly owned subsidiary of KTM Sportmotorcycle Gmbh, has not been able to supply spares to its dealer network since November and has reported a 60% drop in sales to October. It is on notice that the Australian government may order a recall of all models with the affected engines, involving a full replacement engine. This would put KTM Au at risk of trading while insolvent, a criminal offence for directors.

[@ironkcirb285]

Dirty deed's done dirt cheap .

[@barebonesmc]

i called him an asset stripper from the start, that is all he is, but few saw it back then

[@advidaho8643]

@@barebonesmc People like this need to be outright banned from such positions imho

[@barebonesmc]

@@advidaho8643 the tower was built for a reason 😊

[@crete9699]

MV/ cagiva always survives by a castiglioni buying it back for a euro ……joking aside I hope it does continue successfully.🙏

[@barebonesmc]

They still owe the Castiglioni family for the Claudio special, details here kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmGbd6Rsap2hirs and yes, i hope so too, they should have stuck with the elefant legacy :-) but i am a certified Cagiva nut :-)

[@advidaho8643]

@@barebonesmc I Miss the old Cagiva's.

[@barebonesmc]

@@advidaho8643 the cagiva family is strong 😊 recently got offered my old W12 back and am sorely tempted 😊😊to

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Great vid Barebone, you think far deeper than most plonkers. Maybe we're just overthinking it and Vangaurd / Blackrock will just buy it at a great price and keep on truckin? Sure the downfall and takeover might be all the usual smoke n mirrors shenanigans but this MO is typical venture capital dance moves. We've seen it all before.

[@EnduroDude]

As a owner of a husky 2024 and being a person who has been trying to get help with warranty from this poop company i can’t see anything wrong with your statement! Lies and disinformation and deceptions are the core of the company’s brands. That’s for your absolute point on analysis! Not a fanboy of Pierre group. Thanks for your work and merry Christmas too you and all other biker goons!

[@barebonesmc]

Cheers mate and sorry. Too many people caught up in this in so many ways

[@winstonwolff]

I 2nd that

[@Mr.Fox2023]

Saw an article headed Stefan Pierer: “KTM is my life's work and I will fight for it” (Nov 2024). Reading the comments below I am not so sure..... Feel very sad for all those losing their jobs including subbies.

[@mrt4755]

walked into my local dealership the other day they had large section of the showroom dedicated to KTM now completely gone

[@barebonesmc]

Sad but hopefully he wasn’t too badly hit and can rebuild

[@longkeithdiablo8812]

They won't sell any bikes like that! Unless they were discounted to such a bargain they sold out already? 😂

[@BlackdogADV]

I’m not seeing any discounted bikes on cycle trader.

[@barebonesmc]

@@BlackdogADV not sure where you are but most countries have had big discounts on for a while now. Especially on the 790/890 platforms. Less so on the dirt bikes but the 690 prices dropped after the superquaddro mono was released

[@Superdisco199]

Good video. The two things I couldn't stop thinking about was that they have inventory for 2 years with no production and that they can't service existing debt let alone more debt.

[@barebonesmc]

The fact he is in talks to buy Rosenbaum while ktm burns just makes my blood boil tbh

[@Superdisco199]

@barebonesmc i didn't know that. Look at what he did with husaberg. He just likes shiny things. Don't think he has any financial literacy or common sense.

[@barebonesmc]

@@Superdisco199 oh he does. While Rome burns his personal net worth has grown 0.2 billion euros in the past year *forbes

[@jaywinters2483]

Arrogance of Stefan Pierer manifests itself.

[@endurojugHandlebarTank]

I bought a Beta 300 rr and moved on . Im done with Orange corruption. Theyre a rippof. Prices are ridiculously high. Reliabilty of the bikes in high question. Having to pay extra $1000 just to unlock sone electrical intigrated circuit when the bike just cuts out. No thank you. Beta is my new brand .😂

[@redpoll4628]

Beta has it's own reliability issues , that said I'm hoping to by a beta next year.

[@simplerick3851]

So I better buy up some parts while I still can..☹️.

[@barebonesmc]

yep, people have already been stockpiling in case

[@Surge_Arrester]

The easy way, it is to get out of this mess, the sooner the better.

[@barebonesmc]

@@Surge_Arrester maybe. Some are tied in though

[@davidpickard9393]

How can you sell 250,000 motorcycles when you only have 3 cans of paint

[@barebonesmc]

pmsl :-)

[@peterjarmesty1884]

Easy - bare bones motorcycles!

[@Richard-r1x7d]

@@peterjarmesty1884clever answer

[@samhill3496]

The new cams and heads for the 790 are having issues. Garbage in garbage out. Someone may step in and buy a portion. Good luck. Lot of hidden expenses. The 8 billion euro may not be that far off when all the bills come due.

[@tjroelsma]

And Chinesium to make camshafts with....

[@markholroyde9412]

Building a business on the strength of making over priced TOYS....think about it...the World will be full of second hand spares very soon 🤣 People have no clue that this is how business works in the last 20 years. No victims, just volunteers wanting "toys".

[@barebonesmc]

Harsh 😊 but many are willingly won over by the fluff. Having said that. I know some ktm owners who did and have bled Orange. Unlike Stefan Pierer they are hurting right now. As are many who don’t deserve it

[@jimbroen]

"Overpriced toys". You mean like Lego? Ferrari? Rolex? I would argue that the business case for producing overpriced toys can be successful. There is an audience for well built toys but any company can be destroyed by bad management.

[@Pompomgrenade]

Being "irresponsible' 😅& 'a thief' are not synonymous!

[@TheNonAlignedGuy]

Let's address the elephant in the room 1st, it's ktm's own doing. After COVID they borrowed & swapped a lot of money hoping the bike industry would bounce back like the car industry (global car industry is now struggling), then they started cranking out its production lines all over the world and the exact opposite happened + their bikes are not selling mainly because of reliability & poor service quality. Not to mention the poor showroom experience that customers get. The American bike giant harley davidson is also facing similar financial problems. When some veterans from Japan & other western bike manufacturers follow a cautious approach to the recovering post covid bike market, KTM gambled & it backfired at their face. In other words, it's the greed & mismanagement from PMG head that ultimately puts KTM, MV agusta, gas gas etc in this situation. There is only a small % to blame on KTM's motorsport division for their current crisis as some say. It's PMG's poor decisions making in the production system & financial mismanagement is all for blame. 👉 Why did their global sales come down?? Ever since CF moto got more investment / collaboration into KTM; in order to make more bucks they adopted a lot of chinese production systems & techniques. And therefore their quality tanked + price tag goes up. So people started to look to other manufacturers avoiding KTM bikes. I think in terms of reliability KTM is now worse than Aprilia bikes. So in general their sales dropped a cliff. Currently 2 big shareholders of KTM (Pierer Mobility AG) are reluctant to invent more. That is the Bajaj group from India & the CF moto group from China. Currently these two shareholders are doing very well on their own business & bike sales, but Bajaj is sceptical about KTM about further investment in KTM. I don't know about CF moto. This info is from the end of November, not updated about things in December. Bike industry in India and China ( generally in Asia and Africa) are booming and are making good financial returns. If you doubt this; ask Suzuki, yamaha, honda, Bajaj, CF moto, TVS, Royal Enfield etc... but this is not the situation in All of Europe, North America, S America & Australia. The most likely scenario for KTM motorsport division (not PGM) will be the Red bull group will buy out them. And then we will have a red bull MotoGP team like Red bull F1 team ( honda - red bull of the past seasons ). I am pretty sure Liberty media also likes this approach, since more red bull footprint directly translates into more PR boost for MotoGP in general. But I do not have any idea what will happen to the commercial wing of PMG. May be the government of Austria will step in and do something for the company to run. For investors, my advice will be to stay away from PMG and their subsidiary firms. Well let's hope for the best.

[@jimamizzi1]

Thanks for the update, very much appreciated.

[@Herco28]

I'm sure Mr Pierro is having himself a swell Christmas this year. Unlike his employees.

[@barebonesmc]

well put, i dont like to speak bad of people but he is an exception to that rule, a dark soul

[@mhoppy6639]

As I said in the previous KTM by BBones, the senior managers will be fine this Christmas, Pierrer is another Musk without the cash (although lots of _his_ is on paper) And how is it that other bike manufacturers manage to run their factories through a difficult period and come out fighting. And all the “efficiencies” always come at the expense of people doing the jobs over more hours for less money. And even a cursory glance at economic productivity research shows that longer hours almost _never_ lead to realterms increases in efficiency. KTM is a cashless husk and if they’re not careful Harley will go the same way. They have been piling up debt to pay for earnings per share and will fall off a cliff if things spiral economically These people who “lead” are horrific.

[@barebonesmc]

@@mhoppy6639 apparently Stefan pierers personal wealth grew by 0.2 billion euros last year while Rome burns………

[@smily2208]

You're right. They have no one to blame but themselves. they would be rolling in money if they were reliable.

[@johnclowes3502]

I don't understand why Pierre is not in jail.. How can this man get away with this... When KTM eventually folds, it will be the ripple in the bike market. We are talking about 3 iconic brannds that have failed in one go.. It's going to be the global fallout... this is my fear...

[@Pompomgrenade]

😂 Have no fear. This has global repercussions just in what becomes some weird sudden enormous loss in market cap value somewhere😂

[@Tanuki65]

Well researched! Probably too late now to suggest the company restructures to follow the Japanese stakeholder capital model rather than the greedy shareholder model favoured in Europe and the US. I feel for the workers on the rough end of a greedy stick.

[@wristcandy5451]

KTMs first mistake was turning down Charlie Borman sponsorship, then there is the unreliability issues and poor service at dealerships in South Africa anyway

[@AgricUltra]

Very informative video. Thank you.

[@barebonesmc]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Triggered-RC]

I wonder how many people, like me, bought a KTM a few months ago and now wish they had got a Yamaha 😢

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Why? How does this change what you bought?

[@Triggered-RC]

@@AnyoneSeenMikeHuntWell, I bought a 300xc 2 stroke. Gotta rebuild the top end every hundred hours. If KTM disappears, how will the parts availability situation pan out? Also, fuel injectors, electric power valve and other electronics that can have issues on a KTM, what if any of that goes wonky? What if I want to sell it down the road and the company is bankrupt? That won’t help… Not feeling confident… Was gonna buy a 2023 890 Duke R recently, but now going with a Suzuki GSX8s instead.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@Triggered-RC Aaahhh. My bad, see your point. Well there's a good chance that most of those parts are made by external suppliers who will continue to make spares because owners need them. Many times when a manufacturer goes under another company will buy their entire spares division. That's why we can still get parts for old cars and bikes for manufacturers that are long since dead and buried. I wouldnt get to concerned until the bike becomes vintage and like many things if KTM does disappear your bike might actually go up in price, we've seen that happen before too. Fun trivia, I bought a 2010 Yamaha 250 scooter that Yamaha now no longer stocks parts for, they come from the original supplier now.

[@Triggered-RC]

@ My dealer said as much when trying to get me to go ahead with the Duke purchase, and I got a helluva deal, cheaper than the Suzuki by over $1000. Cheaper than my 300xc actually. But ai think I’ll stick with the Suzuki.

[@constantinosschinas4503]

​​@@Triggered-RC There is a (supposingly strict) rule that forces companies (or everybody that buys them, regardless if they went bankdrupt or not) to keep adequate parts stock for at least 10 years from the production end of every model. Thinking of buying an SM700 or SMC R pretty soon. In their case, there are zero alternative bikes out there, unfortunately.

[@KurttankT]

The man will walk away, but you never know 😉

[@barebonesmc]

he should be watching his back, because i dont think anyone will be doing it for him

[@advidaho8643]

@@barebonesmc the people he has crossed, are not people to ever cross, I am baffled he was stupid enough to do that.

[@devonbikefilms]

​@@barebonesmc I fear he has a short time horizon for his own survival. Much like his ravaged companies.

[@barebonesmc]

@@advidaho8643 his arrogance knows no bounds

[@BlackdogADV]

I have a Husqvarna 701, where will I get parts?

[@Davidkxf]

I have two

[@devonbikefilms]

You won't. Sorry.

[@Davidkxf]

@@devonbikefilms Did valve clearance on my SM the other day at 10k km and found wear on the cam lobes, so disappointed

[@barebonesmc]

I have been saying buy parts to people for months now but I know there are backlogs so it just a grab what you can moment. Sorry it wasn’t better news. I will follow it up again in February see what comes next

[@barebonesmc]

@david sorry. I hear too many stories like yours

[@traviscarter9300]

I really thought there was no way KTM would go bankrupt, but as the details come out, i am beginning to think it is a reality that could happen. 🤯 What a shame.

[@sallhame]

Thanks for your fantastic work. Your insight is amazing. I used to own a 1190 Adventure, and was looking for a good old 640 Adventure, but now I am not shure. I wonder how future sales of KTM will be, both for new bikes and for spares to those already on the road. In the meantime I will enjoy my Guzzi :-)

[@Bok2022st]

Another interesting and knowledgeable video and another great year cheers mate. if only these companies had a little bit more caring and a less greed, maybe things would be different anyway. Ian and Emily I wish you and yours a very happy and safe merry Christmas cheers, for all you do mate, definitely the A to Z of motorcycle knowledge etc.🍻💯✌️👑🇦🇺

[@ronchappel4812]

"probably something in the middle" For what my opinion is worth,i agree. The KTM name can be repaired.No matter which way this all goes,someone will absolutely buy the assets and keep some core part of KTM going

[@andrewreebel6418]

I'm starting to think Stephen split the company up and created all these other companies just to help with the fall to evade taxes and liability.

[@TringmotionCoUk]

I wonder if this will affect the deal with KTM fahhrad on name usage

[@FMC-20244]

As always great content!! People where mad at me when i said that Gas Gas and Huskies are just KTMs in a different dress!!! so i laughed when you just said the same😁

[@davido.newell4566]

Although likely not as interesting as the career you have had, you would have been a hellova good bond underwriter! A fine analysis, my friend !

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Stefan Pierer privately owns 75% of the company. This may be his way of getting Vangaurd private equity (whom have a very minor share at this point) to buy him out. He will retire a quadzillionare and Vanguard will add PIERER Mobility to it's big pool of car and bike makers.

[@advidaho8643]

very possible

[@tjroelsma]

You'd think that may be the case, but Stefan Pierer seems to have quite the ego and may not give in that easily. The fact that he managed to rake up that huge amount of debt in such a relatively short time in my opinion shows that he lives in a bubble of his own fantasy and will have a hard time facing reality.

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

@@tjroelsma Egotistical greed is a thing too. Racking up debt for a takeover is how venture capital works. Has me baffled but it works. Whichever way it goes Pierer will come out of it even richer. I smell corp shenanigans.

[@marcbrasse747]

I am sorry to say it but if only half what is claimed here KTM and the surrounding web of profiteers deserve to go bust. I’ve worked in such a company and was pressed out of it for saying out loud what had to be said. But at least I was put out on the street so early that I at least got the money I was owed for the time being there. Later I heard many of my former colleagues have been less “lucky”. Still it broke my career and I have never had an income since, mainly because I never felt enough trust to get back into the corrupt jungle at all. In short: Hyper-capitalism is starting to swallow us all. Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

[@barebonesmc]

Been saying for years all he ever was was a slick tongued asset stripper. Maybe I will get less stick for it now lol. The kicker for me is using money he took from ktm to invest elsewhere while he lets ktm drown. Someone saying his net worth according to Forbes has gone up 0.2billion euros just this year while Rome was burning 🥵

[@carsyoungtimerfreak1149]

I started riding when Ago was big. Even in those days motorcycle production at MV Agusta was under discussion. It was not profitable. This is over 50 years ago... I'm no expert, but it seems producing expensive stuff in relatively small numbers is not a good business case. Henry Ford I already knew that around 1905 or so... So... they could have known... But... it is always easy to discuss something with the benefit of hindsight!

[@Davidkxf]

I've been personally affected by a similar asshole, my wife's partner screwed her out of millions of Euros after she bought a share in his company. After everything went pair shaped, which he orcastrated, he bought her share back, along with her colleague's for Euro1.00 each. Neither of them recovered while he went on and bought a ski resort.

[@barebonesmc]

Greed is a nasty bedfellow

[@54Rocketeer]

Great shots of New Zealand back country

[@n.elliott9122]

What will come of the pro Motocross race team that just signed Chase Sexton?

[@juh7025]

Kawasaki did say they wanted to win enduro gp and if ktm isn't there. They might!

[@reinokotze]

tbh, i am mostly worried about getting parts for my old beloved 2 ktms.

[@barebonesmc]

I can imagine. Been saying buy parts to people I know for months now but

[@jaywinters2483]

Sell your KTM’s & buy a pizza.

[@barebonesmc]

@@jaywinters2483he (Pierer) chose a firefighting company instead of pizza

[@garysergeant9086]

MV Do they make as much money buying back the brand for a dollar.Harley was the previous who's going to be next?

[@barebonesmc]

They all need a good shake up. The MV situation is complex as always. Harley were never the right owners either

[@b45her]

most of the belly aching about the reliability seems to be coming from the roadie/adventure crowd, KTM's proper offroad stuff is bomb proof in my experience, regular gearbox oil and an air filter change every couple of rides is about it. KTM should stick to the competition stuff where they excel and pull away from the adventure side of things where the warranty warriors dwell.

[@Mike_P646]

True, but calling it bellyaching isn't really fair when customers have been shafted in the pocket. If KTM are going to make a product it should be fit for purpose and 99% of the time it wasn't.

[@b45her]

@@Mike_P646 oh come on, lets be honest adventure bikes are dressed up road bikes, if your name isn't tony bou or pol tarres your going to smash it to bits on anything beyond a fire road. the adventure stuff is mostly chinese tat as far as im aware so what do you expext.

[@Mike_P646]

@@b45her who said anything about adventure bikes or what people use them for? If they sell a road bike it should be reliable and they aren't. So it's called bellyaching when people complain their KTM road bikes are unreliable shit boxes? There's a job for you at a KTM dealership, you'd fit right in.

[@yukibond4182]

0:39 "Jeremy McWilliams' exit doesn't bode well for the MotoGP team." How does his exit affect a team that's already leaving that he hasn't done any development for in years?

[@Mike_P646]

Let's be honest,why are KTM even in MotoGP without a flagship sportsbike to sell? It's a massive waste of money. Yes, I know even if it was wskb they aren't anything like the bike you'd buy at the dealership but the win on Sunday,sell on Monday would apply.

[@RobboRobinson]

The job is totally bollock’d. The shockwave is coming in the spring. Can you imagine if they decided to sell all the current stock at a 50% reduction to clear the decks? The knock on effect for companies like Sherco , Beta , Reiju etc could be catastrophic. I don’t think any of these companies are financially sound at the moment. If that doesn’t happen I think the parts supply chain for oem bits will be hit badly and customers might not be able to get the gearbox / engine parts to service there already sub standard KTM’s.

[@barebonesmc]

end of February will be the key time. but yes, i sense the words of someone in the industry? and it will have ramifications for the whole industry. the thing i find sickening is that he is now using the money he funnelled out of KTM to invest in a Firefighting business while he watches KTM go down and has blocked every attempt to find a real solution so far. They needed 165 million to stop the liquidation proceedings and he alone has took over 140 million out in the last 10 years, and i know, ten years is a while, but that money could have kept the lights on and paid workers

[@sgtgrash]

I wish MV Agusta all the success and best wishes they deserve. You are the creme de la creme, and never forget that, because we won't. A Very Very Merry Christmas to all... 🎄☃️🎄

[@manuelabreu8764]

The owner credibility is so much damaged, that I don’t think KTM can survive this crisis

[@jimbroen]

It's hard to see an outcome that doesn't involve a dissolution and carving up of assets. There's been a collapse of government bond interest rates around the world. This signals that the big players are seeking liquidity and safety. Nobody will be in the mood to lend to a basket case like Pierer Mobility. I don't know anything about Austrian politics but is it possible that the national government swoops in with a big fat government bailout?

[@John900C]

Pierer may be smarter with the business smoke and mirrors moves than Stuart Garner but he is just as crooked

[@barebonesmc]

A good analogy

[@stevenschiff808]

Are sport bikes still a thing?

[@barebonesmc]

I guess I think of sport bikes as 4 pot screamers with a fairing n however sporty call dirt bikes dirt bikes so I don’t think of ktm as making sport bikes. Not since the RC8

[@jacquesnel8384]

What a mess ! It’s a case of KTM Over-Ambition and bad management?

[@advidaho8643]

MV Agusta need to re hire as many of their former staff as they can and get back going. I am beginning to think PMG is intending to destroy or damage as much of the industry as they can. If they sell the rights to Husaberg for eg, someone needs to acquire it as cheaply as they can and get it back on its feet, it was a great brand before PMG got their mitts on it, and quickly shut it down.

[@P.DuncanMonk]

Wanted an MV F3 800 and almost bought one a couple of years ago. The papers were drawn up and ready to be signed. I backed out at the last minute. I had a really bad feeling. I think the reliability horror stories got to me at the last minute. But damn it I still want one.

[@redpoll4628]

Sources still say KTM are still in Moto GP

[@johnclowes3502]

Awsome effort ....

[@stewartmckinley7058]

get rid of Gixxer headlight and ditch the single sided swing arm

[@kenwise4596]

European bike companies have always been shady with the way do business. I remember when the Ducati 999 came out we had issues with crank case oil going up the vent tube into the air box then down the intake and the bikes smoked like a chimney. Ducati's first answer replace the top end however the issue ended up being design flaw with to much crank case pressure and a crank vent band aid was designed to help correct the design flaw but anyways when timing the motor I discovered the index marks on the cams were incorrect! They have timing marks but they are for another motor is the only thing I could think of but in order to time we had to order the 800 dollar tool from Ducati that aligned the cams. Now I always put my own marks on before I take the belts off. If I didn't have experience with most other motorcycle companies like HD Polaris and all the Japanese companies I probably would have thought everyone did business that way but they don't.

[@jonjohnsonpoolspa]

SO SO SAD !! KTM WAS KEEPING MOTORCYCLE LIFES TOGETHER ❤️! WHAT IS ITS FUTURE ? WILL THERE BE A DAKAR TEAM ?? MOTO GP SAF !!

[@wiwwee1]

Moto GP is too expensive. And with the new technical rules comming in 2027 that means a whole new bike from scratch. KTM have no money for that. Not now and not in few years. SuperSport racing with the 990 R is their tarmac racing future. Way cheaper. Less development costs. And an actual product to sell to people to actually make some money. MV was supposed to get better prices for parts supply from the much bigger PMG to help with profitability and a large dealer network to help sales. None of the MV production or design never left Varese Italy. GasGas has only trials bikes to offer to PMG and that's a tiny market share so that made no sense. Husqvarna was bought well over a decade ago and they got it super cheap when BMW dumped them. What happened to the money ? 220milj. € to buy MV. 370milj. € spent on the electric bike sector. That's about 600 milj. € spent. Production ramped up during COVID and year after. Sales tanked. Loads of unsold inventory and rising interest rates on the huge loan. 3% hike in a 1 billion debt is 30milj per year on extra debt alone. That's before you have paid off any of that loan.

[@barebonesmc]

Still doesnt add up to 3 billion or excuse the dividends

[@wiwwee1]

@barebonesmc I haven't seen anyone actually dissect and go through on the PMG debt. It would be interesting to get an actual list of everyone they owe money to with amounts owed. For the smaller bills us "normal" people would like to think that a multimillionaire like Pierer could use his own money to chip in, but that's not reality. Sadly business is cut throat and you don't get ahead by playing nice and giving away money. As for dividends. The company made around 100milj. € of actual profit for several years. If you as a share holder own some of the company obviously you are going to get part of the earnings. There is no point in investing if there is no return. Also PMG did spend quite a lot on development and the actual manufacturing and plant so I don't see the share holder revenue as a big issue or part of the downfall. Main reasons would be: Bad big investments and just sh!t timing. Drop in sales and huge amount of unsold inventory. Rise in all expenses, salaries, electricity, material and part costs, interest rates, parts and product shipping... Needing to spend more and more with less money coming in is not sustainable in any business. They just thought they are too big to fail and ran up way too much debt. When you owe way more than you make, you're fooked.

[@wiwwee1]

@barebonesmc Also would be real interesting to know the details on the MV aqusition deal. I have heard that the deal had certain requirements from PMG to MV in writing in the deal. If they are guaranteed parts supply or distribution help as part of the purchase agreement, KTM failing to deliver on those liabilities would void the contract and KTM could not actually sell their share of the company. This is 100% hear say from a MV dealer and not verified in any way. But if it has any merritt it would complicate things even further.

[@barebonesmc]

@@wiwwee1 yes there were set requirements. And fixed guaranteed investment in stages. And I think that is where the 1 euro figure comes in Ktm announced the withdrawal from the contract and their shares were returned for an arbitrary amount. So as far as I am aware ktm retain no shares now Further to your other point. I’d settle for a list of those 60 companies right now so I can dig more🤣🤣

[@wiwwee1]

@@barebonesmc Where did that, MV sold for 1€, info come from ? KTM paid 220milj. for the shares so letting all that and the previous 25% acquired before go for 1€ is not feasible. For a company in big financial trouble giving all that away is in no way a acceptable business decision.

[@Mike_P646]

Let's be honest,who in their right mind would buy even a heavily discounted KTM at the moment? If it was a Japanese bike there's a good chance you'd have a trouble free ownership with proper maintenance for the life of the bike, there's zero chance of that with a KTM

[@teddav976]

KTMs in Australia are still at stupid prices

[@bigding4507]

Stop buying, then they’ll come down

[@teddav976]

Never have and never will

[@matthewoakley3772]

Not many really cheap 890r s out there. Cheep 1290r s yes. 890s still selling well

[@longkeithdiablo8812]

The boss's €125 million would have fixed the camshaft issue. That would have at least kept customers confidence in the company. That may have gone some way to relieve the problems. 🤷

[@barebonesmc]

As I said all along. He didn’t want to fix the problem sadly.

[@samhill3496]

Are the worker's pensions secured or robbed

[@robertgagne9355]

Greed the end of many.

[@barebonesmc]

Not him. He just gets richer

[@josephboot1]

MotoGP is to corrupt because of the FIM. Ever since they allowed Ducaudi to cheat with downforce wings, the series hasn't been the same. Suzuki left shortly after that and I'm surprised Yamaha and Honda stayed because the cards are stacked against them.

[@tjroelsma]

Giving Ducati some slack with the wings made sense for the FIM. They desperately wanted to have more brands competing in MotoGP, preferably European brands and Ducati just couldn't get it done. Like so many well-meant but ill-thought-out plans from organisations like FIM, FIA, FIFA etc, it backfired on them massively: Suzuki left, Honda and Yamaha are desperately trying to hang on and Ducati now rules almost supreme....... oops.

[@metalsadman]

​​​@@tjroelsmayam and hinda should just leave ducati GP in their own devices. Maybe focus in dakar now that KTM is going downhill or in wsbk just nit ducati gp.

[@tjroelsma]

@@metalsadman Or the FIM could bring the rules back to basics, like they have been for so long in the past. Fans are seriously questioning if all the electronic and aerodynamic features should really be allowed, as they won't really work on street bikes. Sure, some small winglets have appeared on some streetbikes already, but those seem to be more for esthetics than functionality and things like the ride height device and the hole-shot device simply have no use on streetbikes. I seriously doubt that the FIM would want Honda and Yamaha to leave MotoGP, as that would make it a single manufacturer class and would mean its end.

[@marcbrasse747]

It makes the Energica situation as a wonderland of magical possibilities. Everything there can be gotten for only a few million. 5.7 million Eu being the target price. But perceived parallels with the KTM tale will still make potential investors scratch their heads twice.

[@barebonesmc]

A sad state of greed eating everything and leaving nothing

[@red.riot.2280]

MV was always a waste of same with gas gas. No one wants clone bikes. Just the core Ktm…

[@barebonesmc]

MV gave them engines and engineering they didnt have very cheeply, Gas Gas not so, but the MV deal was a scam from the start

[@clivecartey]

Thank you for the excellent evaluation of the whole issue. Personally, I think that the one to watch and listen to is.....Peter Vogl, the Insolvency Practitioner working with the Austrian Courts. Upon his presentation in Court last Friday the Court only allowed KTM AG to hobble on to give Vogl the time to evaluate the three, possibly probing only, 'Letters of Interest' received so far. The Court will not allow KTM AG to continue beyond the original 90 days and are only giving time within that framework for Vogl to undertake his professional duties on behalf of the Court. The real truth of this very crooked affair will be revealed in the Austrian statutory investigation of PIERER Mobility AG and thereby KTM AG. We are heading towards a massive, criminal, financial scandal and a 'Fire Sale' of everything KTM - including the devalued brand name. The latter going to BAJAJ or CF Moto - neither of which will want or need any form of European production facility.

[@Davidkxf]

Maybe some R&D

[@clivecartey]

@@Davidkxf ...an R&D, Design Centre or Technology Centre can be in India or, indeed, anywhere in Europe. Witness Royal Enfield with their Technology Centre in Bruntingthorpe or Mahindra (BSA) with their Design Centre in Banbury. BAJAJ themselves own a subsidiary company in the Netherlands (Bajaj Auto International Holdings BV) responsible for the BAJAJ investment in KTM AG plus they already have the Bajaj Design Centre in Barcelona Spain (BAJAJ Auto Spain S.L.). Add to that the number of independent motorcycle and engine design houses in Europe and there is absolutely no necessity whatsoever for any 'Bricks & Mortar' premises in Austria - far from it. Note: Attention should also be placed on the worldwide motorcycle market which favours small to mid-range motorcycles and we may well see the expensive, low volume, large capacity, 'hobby' adventure motorcycle models being culled anyway. The only 'Fire Sale' worthwhile KTM AG asset purchase item is the now devalued 'KTM' brand name.

[@dartmoordave]

KTM haven't done well since their big bad 2 strokes of the 70's.

[@apacherider7110]

All those people's jobs down the drain.

[@andrewreebel6418]

Shit man. All i have is RFS KTMs. I need to start buying all the OE i can.

[@barebonesmc]

Probably more likely to get aftermarket suppliers feeding that end of the market but if you don’t. Someone will and then charge a fortune

[@bikenavbm1229]

it seems the shit is getting deeper and smellier, as usual a shame for the many, whilst the main instigators just shrug and move on. if the Indians take up ownership, and want to continue with the brand name I would think that rebuilding the brands public image would be a priority so warranties, and "good will" would be upheld or am I being naive. great update that must have taken some time to research I am guessing its a field your familiar with thanks for your work from the Know The Mismanagement channel. looking forward to some desert sunshine in these gloomy days.

[@60fullback]

This the same story as vw Honda Nissan Brittish leyland bsa the list is endless

[@peterlepouttre2219]

KTM bikes are way too expensive in a time of heavy recession. I fear that they are still difficult to sell at the current high prices.

[@thankstrek5759]

My first choice bike was the 1290 superduke gt,loved the look styling and sound of it,but bought a gsa1250, all because the ktm dealer in. Dublin were no different than other ktm dealers,and couldn't wouldn't trust them

[@si2u263]

Actually McWilliams is a 🔧

[@LuckyNikitaBoba]

The king is dead, long live of the king

[@TheZanshen]

KTM = keep taking your money.

[@Pompomgrenade]

💀 dead KTM is 🤑 Dead 👀

[@sethjeffreys3055]

Thankyou for the latest news ! I don't think ktm will survive this its like a rotten egg !

[@AnyoneSeenMikeHunt]

Strangely the share price has been going up not down over the last month. I sense creative accounting shenanigans in a 'tax minimisation' move between their brands.

[@jaywinters2483]

Sell your KTM & buy a pizza.

[@human1513]

Good video per usual. 👍

[@alanbrown5593]

I had problems with my RC8 brakes continually seizing, according to dealer it was all down to me. Never had a issue with any other brembo caliper bikes. Good bye orange.

[@barebonesmc]

A flawed masterpiece 😊 riding one COULD be a joy. But glad I didn’t own one tbh

[@pandora1360]

I have had the same thing for the last 6 years. Several times a year I have to unseize my front calipers, replace pins etc. I ride my bike all year to commute to work. The Brembo brakes are always a problem. The feel of them also changes often during while i'm riding, i've replaced the master cylinder etc. bled the brakes as a ritual multiple times a year. Water also enters into the reservoir. I absolutely hate the Brembo brakes, which it has Nissin. On my T700 and FJR1300 I have no issues with brakes.

[@barebonesmc]

@@pandora1360 cheers for adding. Vague memories dragging up here. Was this the period when the brembos on the multistrada were recalled? Wooden feel( caused by plastic piston in master cyl) and poor quality castings?? This is a vague memory so not saying I’m right but there was a recall

[@cainbeeping8480]

That’s bad.

[@barebonesmc]

That’s the understatement of the day lol 😊

[@samhill3496]

The price of a war ishaving a big impact on all of Europe. Cost of power oil operating costs is giant.

[@darksoul4721]

Now Chinese V4 1000cc will also show up.

[@barebonesmc]

Already has. QJ MOTORS building an F4 derived 1000

[@goose916]

Mv couldn't make it with Petronas or Harley, it's a beautiful yet failed endeavor. Nobody is going to loan them money, and only a fool would invest in MV

[@barebonesmc]

at the end i explain they have 3 letters of intent now, Bajaj o0nly named party so far, but I imagine Redbull and the 3rd is a bank or finance house apparently

[@maarten_notjustagrip]

Its insane how much incredible tech has been lost due to bad financial management, or downright underhandedness on the part of the big marques. VOR, (and Vertemati) Highlander, Cannondale and a host more, some better than others, but still...gone before they got a real chance to challenge, and if they DID show promise, the big brands snuffed them out, protected their markets.

[@goose916]

@@maarten_notjustagrip Indeed, the 70 degree motor in the Husaberg at the end of their production was dead reliable. KTM owned it and abandoned them anyway. Did nothing with the tech they owned.

[@barebonesmc]

@@maarten_notjustagripthe whole husaberg/highland episode was particularly sad

[@seans8184]

Good riddance to companies like KTM. You will have a happier life on a Kawasaki, Honda, Triumph, or Yamaha. 😎

[@barebonesmc]

If it’s got 2 wheels that’ll do for me. But I get what you are saying 😊

[@mygreatbigfoot1679]

So they went ugly, went Chinese and went broke.

[@roadstrom]

I personally think good riddance to KTM !! 💩💩💩 Bikes.

[@eb-pe8xg]

No surprise. KTM built motorcycles few people wanted, ignored market trends, and spent millions and millions the company didn't have on racing. How did the company justify competing in Moto3, 2 and GP when it didn't produce the types of bikes riders were buying from their competitors? And six different displacement naked bikes? Really?!

[@claudeperea2957]

A tale of corporate greed which is so prevalent in this day and age, they barbecue all the decent folks who just want to ride along with the hard working teams that rely on their support to be successful, our sport has become far too expensive to keep growing,along with the danger factor, keep it simple and fun fun, the whole reason we started riding to begin with!!🎉

[@heebmario5988]

Wer wie schon solche Schrott Motoren.

[@matthewoakley3772]

Not many really cheap 890r s out there. Cheep 1290r s yes. 890s still selling well

[@barebonesmc]

Where?

[@matthewoakley3772]

@ just search KTM dealers and look at offers on new bikes. 1290r 4 k off, most don’t seem to have offers on 890r, the few which do it’s 1K I’d buy a new 1290r, but my 2017 one kept trying to kill me off road! Lovely on road though, just rider error off road.

[@Davidkxf]

Prices are still stupid high here.

[@barebonesmc]

@@matthewoakley3772 I meant what country? Prices here been dropping for a while. The 690 pre order price dropped when the superquaddro mono landed

[@matthewoakley3772]

@ Uk. Yes 690 good price. But not 890, so I don’t think the cam issue has had much to do with all this. 1290’s very reliable.