Battery degradation test 120000km | Kia e-NIRO

[@kaloyankaloyanov6197]

e Niro for the win! Well done Lubo, even with buffer this is still amazing considering that you've charged DC mostly, hope Kia will replace your cell! Thank you for this valuable information, because Brojn is always assuming and you are showing it with proper software, charging and discharging the same car same logs, so this should be as close to real as it gets.

[@alirezamohamadkhani]

I like you accurate and scientific way of reporting all the relevant data. others should learn from you. and also kudos to KIA for this level of battery longevity.

[@bisitis]

Nice. Not that bad seeing that you do a proper riding (long road trips = quite a lot fast charging). Having MY2020, but only 25k done in 1.5 years.

[@MarkoElectric]

Excellent test. Very valuable information for anyone keeping the car for the long term. Many thanks for the info.

[@tomasviktora2449]

Prosímtě dá se někde sehnat aplikace na sledování jednotlivých článku? Nebo to je nějaký tvůj vývoj? Rád bych taky měl přehled o článcích v baterce e-nira. Jinak super práce..

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Môj vývoj - evdash je na github a beží to na DIY HW M5stack core2. Ale ak sa dá počkaj. :) Chcem spraviť evDash ako Android / Iphone apku, s napojením na bežný OBD2 adaptér. Bude tam plná podpora aj na testovanie kapacity akumulátora, na požiadanie za nejaký malý peniaz vyhodnotenie a vystavenie certifikátu a ďalšie zaujímavé funkcie. Cca o 2-3 mesiace by to mohlo byť verejné.

[@tomasviktora2449]

Super, tak já si počkám. Určitě nebudu mít problém podpořit nějakou finanční částkou. Budeš pak dělat video z nové aplikace? Mám sledování tvého kanálu tak mi nová aplikace "neuteče" Jinak opravdu klobouk dolů tvého umu a podpory komunity elektrojezdíků 🤟😁

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@tomasviktora2449 Určite bude aj video, alebo post v rámci YT. Aplikácia pre mobily bude komerčná služba - free v rozsahu ako je evDash pre M5stack, resp. špecializované veci ako sú napr certifikáty s vyhodnotením degradácie a stavu článkov, live tracking so zdieľaním telemetrie auta budú za nejaký malý poplatok, lebo ten vývoj/údržba je dosť nákladná.

[@tomasviktora2449]

@@evRoadTripsSvk super, už se těším. Tak ať se daří 🫡

[@KsiNixNie]

That's a very promising result. I have an e-Niro but only do some 20k km per year with far less DC charging (maybe 10 - 15 times per year). That one cell is a bit worrying though. Wonder if it deteriorates more that it might cause the BMS to cut off power sooner.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Around cell voltage 2.7V is power limited to 15kW. With 2.5V bms protect whole battery pack a provide max ~1-1.5kW power for a while. Very interesting demostration was to Kia technician. We drove with 2.5V only few hundred meters. Last 2-3 km we started car many times. It drove only 50-100 meters with max speed 5-15kmh until died and stopped. Then required power off and on again. After this 2-3km it was car totally dead and still with 4% of SoC in the battery. Combination empty & cold battery & high performance (>0.5-1C rate) is killer for this cell.

[@KsiNixNie]

@@evRoadTripsSvk Keep us posted on how you fare with the replacement. I don't think they'll replace one cell since it requires a lot of skills and tools to to that. Maybe they could change the module. I doubt it however. Your battery still has close to 100% of the capacity and the Kia warranty kicks in when capacity is below 70%. if that cell dies, then it's a different story since it'll bring down the whole pack.

[@yann6257]

merci pour ton partage 👍👍

[@authorified89]

What is your average daily depth of discharge? AKA, how many percent do you use daily on average? Do you charge daily and if so, how far do you charge? I read that batteries do well with low depth of discharge and when you keep percentage at 50-70% if possible. Im trying that with my e-Niro

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

I already sold my e-Niro. I am living in the flat and in city with chargers 3km+ from my home. So I had SoC in range from 30 to 70/80%. Detto with ioniq 6 - from 30 to 80/85%. I usually charged once per few days. But I often go to longer tripy (200-500km), then few charging per one day.

[@marcoversteeg2705]

Hope you do test again when the car is 10 years old. Maybe age as more effect on degradation. Great videos. Thanks

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

I don't know how long I will have this car;)

[@alaznispireli7481]

@@evRoadTripsSvkhi, if you have this car still, recommend to buy?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@alaznispireli7481 If you need only compact car around its range (up to 200km range) and you don't want to pay a lot of money for new than yes. Otherwise offer is now better - better infotainment, range, faster charging, battery preheating etc.

[@alaznispireli7481]

@@evRoadTripsSvk thank you for your response. why only 200km range? is it winter range? now I’ve chevy volt 1 gen and thinking to replace it with this car

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@alaznispireli7481 Depends on speed. Here in svk district roads around 450km / winter 380-420. Highways (130kmh) 250-300km. "200km" range, I think you don't want to wait somewhere 40-50 minutes for 10-80%. And there is a strong coldgate in the winter.

[@MichalMoravcik12]

super, a ten jeden vadný článok si vymenil, alebo nerobí problémy?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Robí problémy, čím viac je studenší a vybitý aku, vyšší výkon (0.5C a viac). Včera bolo už celkom teplo (14C), a aku som si udržoval na 25C. Ku koncu som zišiel z diaľnice, aby som vedel lepšie riadiť výkon. Preto som 2.7V dosiahol až pri 1-2%. Ak by bol studenší a bol by som na diaľnici, konečná by bola pri 6-7% (2.5V).

[@carlosgaspar74]

Hi, nice video content in your channel. Good informative work. 👌 These results are with the weak "unbalanced" cell still in the pack? Or the "problem" as been addressed by Kia? Thanks

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Kia ballancers are ok. Here is not situation like in Teslas, where is much more cells than balancers and cells are in the groups. Here with pouch it is ok. That one cell is broken from new car and do some problems with almost empty battery & highway (higher power consumption) & cold in the winter. I am trying to replace it via Kia Service.

[@Gladki007]

I’m looking at buying used E-niro in near future,your videos definetly make me less worried buying one with some more mileage on it. Since you seem to know a lot about these cars, have you heard about anyone having to replace whole battery pack? Did Kia finally replaced yours because of bad cell? And do you know how much a battery replacement costs if the car is out of warranty? I really tried to look everywhere for information but cant find it, I guess they hold up pretty well so far

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

I tested several eNiro/ev6 cars and never seem something like my bad cell. They ordered (in warranty) this month new module from Korea. So I am waiting for replace. Niro has 5 modules (8-10 cells), I think price of 1 module is around 5-6k USD, EV6 has 32 modules with small number of cells. So this will be better choice for post warranty repairs

[@madhavsubedi6593]

So these will cost 5000 * 10 =5000 dollar to replace to whole battery pack

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@madhavsubedi6593 www.kiapartsnow.com/parts-list/2020-kia-niro_ev/engine_drive_motor/high_voltage_battery_system.html?Diagram=3737512

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@madhavsubedi6593 Sry my mistake. I wrote about 10 modules, but there is only 5 modules. 3x20 cells under floor and 2x19 cells under back seats. Whole pack is ±35000 USD. Quite a lot of money comparing to MEB or Teslas packs.

[@marcoversteeg2705]

Seems E-Niro's tested with Aviloo shows also very low battery degradation.

[@thomtheunissen5827]

only 1 percent, there has to be a buffer that lost more thats too little. maybe if you kept charge to 80% it could be true tho.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Or not? All my logs are public. You can analyze this "buffer." Niro is charging quite slow and charging graph is very poor. Maybe SKinnovation batteries are good and they use this advantages for Ioniq5/ev6 (230kW and very good charging graph in last stage). We will see after few another years. I only log data from my car and publish this for others. That's all.

[@thomtheunissen5827]

@@evRoadTripsSvk You only show the soc that the car tells you. It can easily not allow you to use a top or bottom buffer that shrinks over time. I think this is a good way of doing it, it forces people to care about the battery. Bjorn Nyland also said that the German and Korean cars tend to hide much of the initial degradation with shrinking a buffer. Also, i really appreciate you doing these test not many people do them 👍

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

​@@thomtheunissen5827 Yes, It would be possible. But I am comparing cell voltages at 0 and 100% with older result and there is no significant difference. But still good that car with 64kWh has after 120k km bigger available capacity. Many new cars like MEB, e-GMP are far under declared value.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@thomtheunissen5827 But thank you for response. I think all of us are still learnig about this battery magic :-)

[@thomtheunissen5827]

@@evRoadTripsSvk using voltage to check for differences is pretty smart as well

[@thierryflaven4160]

Great thanks a lot! Could you provide a idea of how that car what daily recharged during its life time please? Kinda: up to 80% most of the time on slow AC 12A then 5-6 travel above 800km with 100% DC charge per year....

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

I am living in a flat in city without any public AC charger. ~90% is DC in my case. And I am charging usually in range 30-70 or 80%.

[@nkitanov]

@@evRoadTripsSvk how fast are the DC chargers? Apparently this slow DC charge on Niro is very protective for the battery. Also what is the device you are using to display and log the data? Thanks.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@nkitanov DC 50-350kW, bud eNiro max is 200A (75-77kW). Tool is our opensource evDash (project is on github com, there is a link to our discord server).

[@nkitanov]

@@evRoadTripsSvk thanks. I found evdash and already ordered the hardware. Looks awesome. :)

[@nerijusj2108]

Thanks! What kind of soft do you use for all data analysis???

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

evDash

And how high is degredation?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

2:01 Still around 1.1%

[@jacquesroux7474]

Hello Thank you very much for your test. I have a question regarding the pre-heating : is it very efficient if you charge with temperatures < 10° and can you command ithe heater manually ? It is just by curiosity because I live in France and Kia France did not consider it necessary to install a heat pump on the French models while the Kona has one ??

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

If I know French and Spanish model doesn't have PTC heater :-/ There is no way to run PTC manually yet. New eNiro from this summer and all ioniq5 / ev6 is getting BMS update with battery preheating (during parking and charger by navigation) like Teslas.

[@jacquesroux7474]

@@evRoadTripsSvk You mean that only new EV6 and Ioniq 5 are modify by Kia/Hunday, if so the petition for e-niro ( before niro EV ) is unfortunately useless :)

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

​@@jacquesroux7474 EV6/Ioniq5 is confirmed. Maybe they will export some functionality for older eniro or not :) Btw from first info only new I5/EV6 should get this feature and now we have confirmed that all I5/EV6 will get it. So this is almost partial success, because we extended our petition for first models of I5/ev6. 🙂

[@TheGolfdaily]

Very, impressive.. 😀

[@xulianxo]

Just wondering what equipment are you using to do this test ?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Own software evDash. It's on github.

[@xulianxo]

Very interesting, I will have a look if I can use it on my Ev. Regards.

[@felixbuehler18]

Hello, can you tell me the degradation at 160.000 km? I can see in your Bio that you drove it till 160.000km. Thank you alot!

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

They changed me a module with broken cell and from this time was never as before. 1.1% vs 3.7%.. So I didn't test it at 160.. If you have original battery degradation at 160kkm is up to 1.5-2%

[@burli0071]

Thanks👍

[@napradpoPolsce]

Good job

[@nkitanov]

How did you completely disable regen braking when testing discharge?

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Infotainment, display screen with realtime consumption (motor/hvac/battery/other%). When power is falling down under 10kW.. increase ACC speed with + button (few times). Keep motor Kw around 20-25kW, then with minus button return to normal speed (110-120km/h). This solves minor uneven terrain. And bigger with switching to N-neutral. During back to D-drive help with accel pedal. Before test don't forget to set regen level = 0, turn off predictive cruise control (ioniq5/ev6, ID3/4, enyaq).

[@Nam3Iess]

za mňa po 120K kilometrov 1,1% nie je zle. Používate väčšinou DC alebo AC nabíjanie? Naše eNiro 2020 má iba 17K po roku a pol 😅

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

Takmer všetko DC (teraz LIDL 50 a Ionity - tie mám najviac po ruke). V meste nemáme žiadne verejné AC.

[@klikar1982]

Podla mna podla vsetkych informacii ktore som videl o li-ion bateriach je tato degradacia nerealne nizka. Jedine vysvetlenie je ze ani data z obd portu neukazuju skutocnu kapacitu baterie, ale nejaku deklarovanu ktora nezahrna nejaku rezervu zhora alebo zdola. Cize sa ako uzivatelia nedozvieme o kolko realne poklesla kapacita baterie ale z cisto uzivatelskeho pohladu nam staci informacia o kolko klesla deklarovana kapacita, kedze ta urcuje aktualny realny dojazd ktory sa od nakupu vozidla prakticky nezmenil, za co davam palec hore pre Kiu.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@klikar1982 Napätia článkov pri 0 a 100% sa veľmi nehýbu. Tak neviem či sa to dá zvaliť na buffre. Meriam ďalej, uvidíme po čase.

[@klikar1982]

@@evRoadTripsSvk super ze to robis a bavi ta to. Aj tak pre obycajneho uzivatela je podstatne ako sa zmeni jeho dojazd. A podla tvojich dat a skusenosti je dojazd enira teraz skoro rovnaky ako pri kupe auta a na tom zalezi najviac.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

@@klikar1982 Nemyslím si, že bežný používateľ voľným okom postrehne zmenu dojazdu o 5-10%. V rámci roka dojazd tak lieta, že to nemá šancu objektívne posúdiť.

[@Codename_47]

Hello eNiro2020svk, I have 2019 E-niro witch is almost dead, how could contact you and exchange some experience ? Thanks in advance.

[@evRoadTripsSvk]

email nick(dot)n17(at)gmail(dot)com

[@OleksiiHatsuk]

Николай, вылечили вашу батарею? Батареи по химии в 2019-2022 одинаковые?Что с ней было? Как решили? Цена вопроса? Рассматриваю Ниро 2019 с пробегом 178000км. Надеюсь у вас все решилось за не дорого.