Battle of the Fandoms: TGCF vs Heartstopper (2D)

[@melhope1771]

For context (I was there when it strarted) Heartstopper fans were comparing the two works because the author went to a pride event and MXTX (and many asian bl authors) never attend LGBTQ+ supporting events. Saying that those authors profit from those minorities while not showing support to LGBTQ+ in real life. Now if you have two braincells you would realize the fault in their claim, many asian BL authors can't come out or show public support without putting themselves in danger in their home countries... this is why they targetted TGCF, because they see it as "not dirty" but they see the author as a fetishizer for not being publicly supportive or attending pride (which hasn't happened in China for years now because the laws are getting stricter). So yes this is motivated by purity culture and racism.

[@oop8784]

EXACTLY bro. This whole thing feels like a typical situation where American fans conveniently forget that the situation regarding LGBTQ+ varies from country to country. In America it literally varies from state-to-state so idk why it’s that hard to remember

[@6Euphoria6]

If basically they're saying MXTX queerbaited? Thats the funniest shit Ive heard all day. Queerbait? They were never the demographic ⁰

[@melhope1771]

​@@oop8784Its because the US is in the center of the world and the standards there are copied everywhere 🙄

[@melhope1771]

​@@6Euphoria6 its kinda hysterical

[@6Euphoria6]

@melhope1771 And I dont see how its fetishize. Its a perfectly good story. Its got the plot, the characters, and the name. The name she probably spend hours coming up with. I hate it when ppl use western standards to judge danmei 😮‍💨😮‍💨 MXTX is a great author and she had already been cyberbullied into early retiremnet in China already. And now shes being "bothered and disturb from the grave" again

[@nightmare622]

Heartstopper fans attacking Tgcf out of all BL fandoms is like a toddler trying to fight Godzilla with their pacifier

[@vgleechan6153]

Thats what I was thinking!!

[@ayuumorienjoyer5913]

we are so old and quiet and unproblematic where are they coming from with this😭

[@jutafreak6153]

I love Tgcf so much. It is very irritating to see it getting dragged into this discourse

[@alicatfelix5144]

Yah don't fuck with tgcf/heavenofficial's blessing fandom we will destroy you and pick evey inches off the fandom

[@AsterPegasus]

Exactly. Stop comparing tgcf to that British bl

[@eunice9937]

@@AsterPegasus fr plus heart stopper is kinda overrated like it's good but like the fans of it think it's better than every other book existing I'm kinda thrown off about it.. How did tgcf even get involved with heartstopper it's like the opposite stuff

[@korazz]

@@eunice9937FRRR, like they’re very elitist about it? And i feel like it’s all the 10 year olds who find literature boring and unapproachable. Also, there’s a VERY big quality difference in their respective manhua and comic versions so most of their contrarian attitudes probably result from jealousy at the thought of another bl having a good - IF NOT better - art style💁

[@bruisedsoupforever]

same, I watched heartstopper bc ppl were hyping it sm and it was so mid

[@aminishnamedvaati]

tgcf is the one mxtx series that doesnt have explicit sex scenes, so why was it the one to get dragged into this. wild.

[@nessienessie3739]

exactly...i was like wait a sec, what sex scene? the one with their statue? lol...

[@klltsun_2576]

@@nessienessie3739 even the statues weren't explicit. It was just kinda hinted at

[@Victoriastrawberries]

Exactly its only implied in the extras

[@aitanachavez1187]

Gorl i just spit my coffee when i saw that, i just end the novels and it was the most beautiful ethereal love i ever see, they are delusional wtf even in the extras all the scenes are funny or cute what is happening in the world

[@lukacastle3947]

i like both stories (albeit i am biased towards TGCF) and the idea that they are being compared to each other at all is just... wild. those are two different things !!!

[@sageleaf8962]

I definitely wasn’t a big fan of heartstopper. But I also realized that was a personal preference (as, I’m not really into slice of life stuff- especially when I get tons of it from the ao3 fluff tag) and I do wish other people recognized it like that

[@blair9205]

In my opinion danmei (in general) is far better lgbt representation than heartstopper, becouse the mcs being gay is so normalized, like if they where a straigh couple the plot wouldnt change visibly. And thats the point. Danmei are great storys where mcs just happened to be in gay relationship, and i love it!

[@fangurkseraph]

I don't think it's right to say danmei in general is better lgbt representation, lol. You might like what you described more, which makes it your preference and is totally okay, but just because it's normalized doesn't mean it's better representation. Especially considering danmei often only covers boyslove, while many western stories kinda overdo it on the whole "gotta put representation for every part of the LGBTQ in this". Also, representation and normalization are not quite the same. Some queer people do prefer to see stories where it's normalized, sure, but many also would prefer stories where they can actually feel... seen. Like, coming-out stories (because that's what a lot of queers go through *specifically* because we don't live in a society where being queer is normalized), or stories of even realizing your feelings and dealing with them in a way that feels realistic and representative to our society. As in, most people of the LGBTQ+ community won't look at ancient Chinese guys going through a tragic story with whatnot and think: "Wow, great LGBTQ+ representation!" Wheras seeing a setting in a highschool (example) in a kinda homophobic world with friends and parents etc. and all that stuff while falling in love with someone and worrying if they might be straight etc. pp. is usually more relatable. Doesn't make them better stories, and definitely doesn't mean one has to like them more, but there's a clear difference in terms of representation, usually (outliers make the exceptions).

[@dumbassgoddess5251]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@fangurkseraph Danmei isn’t just ancient Chinese gays. I’m sure you know this. Over half of the danmei novels are set in the modern world. They include the experiences you mentioned. Some of the most famous danmei’s that have been adapted are like heartstopper. A sentiment of the younger generation is we’re tired of these stories. We’ve seen them a thousand times (if I go on novelupdates through the danmei section I’ll find a hundred stories like heartstopper). We want to exist inside fantasy with out unnecessary homophobia. We want to exist in the modern world and be accepted. I think the view of representation is changing from relatable experiences to relatable people. I also want to add that these experiences you speak of can make there way into fantasy and historical settings.

[@mycobacteriem2540]

I will also say that some of the MC's arent gay either. There's some itneresting bi rep in Danmei too (WWX, and Mo Ran come to mind along with I think the MC from Guardian).

[@yiling_gaytriarch]

they fr attacked the ONE mxtx novel without explicit sex scenes im dying💀also dont forget danmei authors going to jail for simply writing their novels, so how could they show up to pride safely???

[@SoilYT]

26 likes and no reply? Also I had NO idea they went to jail for it 😭 that’s really sad 😢

[@Reira_Newgate]

As a european danmei/BL/yaoi fan and graysexual person, I think it's very sad that Alice Oseman made such a comment. Why drag other genres down like that? Sex scenes, whether explicit or implicit, are not a bad thing and they definitely don't make a love story toxic. Also, I can enjoy stories like Heartstopper, Sasaki to Miyano, Yuri on Ice etc. and I can also enjoy stories like TGCF, MDZS, 2HA and so on. The comment that you made about people saying it's bad because China produced it also made me kinda sad, but I get what you mean...

[@mouhitorinoboku9655]

whats worse is there's no sex scenes in TGCF without you reading the extras. Xie and Hua's relationship is very domestic and sweet (cooking for each other, fixing up a house, doing each-other's hair, traveling together, long conversations and funny moments, buying each-other gifts, helping with crop planting etc.. the list goes on)

[@nishikata3827]

Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and you can agree or disagree with it. I love all kinds of BL or Gay love stories if you will. So when I read Heartstopper on Tapas and saw her comment about BL and Yaoi, I felt rather repulsed by her statement. It's just quite biased. Just because her story about two boys are not overly sexual or whatever, does not mean every BL or Yaoi are bad just because it has one. It's just a tag/genre from a very different country and culture from her own. Why bring it down? If we argue about fetishizing, that's a separate topic. As inherently, the word BL is not fetishization but simply a story about two boy's falling in love, aka "Boy's Love" (with or without explicit scenes). There are a lot of BL stories out there that are a true gem. If you look closely, BL is not the problem. It's the readers who consume it. Unfortunately, some do fetishize to the point of being a creep which makes some people who's part of the LGBTQIA+ community uncomfortable and unsafe. (Special emphasis on "some people") because in my experience, a lot of my friends at school (who's gay), loves BL and they even happily share it with us. In conclusion, BL or Yaoi is not the problem. People who fetishize are.

[@hellcat393]

​@@mouhitorinoboku9655I think that there are not even sex scenes in the extras. As far as I remember it's heavily implied, but you don't get details like in MDZS or SVSSS.

[@miershyk]

I don't think Jellie is too far off the mark in regards to the China comment because it's a very inherent and real mentality that people do have. It's the same when comparison or comments are made about Japanese vs Chinese animation etc, how one is more superior than the other. I also don't think one should group Alice Oseman's comment to encompass the whole of the Western community because she is just one person (and if she weren't Western, it has the same effect), but the fact that it also influences her fans is saying something. Truth be told, this isn't just solely in this community but the art community as well. It's the whole "purity culture".

[@farnregen]

@@hellcat393 well i mean, wasnt in tgcf the stone statue extra?

[@akumashirako]

I'm a huge fan of tgcf And it's one of my top fave stories... Originally started because of BL, stayed for Xie Lian being one of my favorite protagonists I've ever read about. The whole arc where we go back and experience his backstory, which - where hua cheng did not even play an active role for the most part. (for those who haven't read it, this part is LONG. It's not like a short flashback, there's a whole book just about his backstory.) I love it so much when the characters are able to stand by themselves without the relationship defining their whole being. Which i've rarely seen a story do like this in romance genres generally. I have no clue about heartstopper, maybe it's great, i can't say, but so is tgcf... why is there a war xD Just bond over both liking lgbtq stories instead? ..... also if i recall there is no sex at all in tgcf main story- the first time it happens is when we get to the extras at the very end? so why is it about not being ... pure?! we haven't even gotten to first kiss in the donghua yet lol

[@roastedsardines]

I severely doubt the donghua is even going to HAVE a kiss, unfortunately. Censorship is stupid 😒

[@akumashirako]

@@roastedsardines unfortunately... but even if it did we aren't at that point in the story yet so it remains to be seen :')

[@hncg-x1601]

Most time in Donghue/anime/ or just TV show they do hint out that the characters do have a crush/love each other by putting Chinese term or old noval things or true things that put into the show. So you do have a idea they are in love but for some people who don't know it only going look at the english/mistranslated version and think something else it means... other case chould be both but that depanch. Wat I just now type is more for going past the censorship reason they may not show kisses but other hindpt is clearly show that why I think it a good show that they did want show show it but hide it in creative way

[@korazz]

Not saying one is better, both have their strengths and weaknesses in different areas, but MAN you look at one page of TGCF and one page of heartstopper and there is a very apparent tonal difference. One has a very existential, serious and literary approach. The other is a light, breezy, feel good romance. In my opinion, it is WILD that they brought such a high quality danmei into this discourse. And, I’ll be honest. My first thought was that many of the more… immature heartstopper fans were salty bc of how good the fanart/manga of TGCF was 💀

[@chuuchuutrain444]

I agree! Even comparing the romance in both stories, Heartstopper is a direct representation of youthful love, while TGCF is extremely.. well, it's known that the main characters are very old. And they are certainly written as such. The main character himself is jaded and clearly has nothing live for, as his years are considered having been long extended. Therefore the deeply passionate and star-eyed approach that the story takes between Xie Lian and Hua Cheng is much more meaningful. The main character regains the desire to live, and it only goes to show that love is ageless and timeless.

[@avakinneha284]

Both of them are very good but tgcf is just something else>>>

[@j_midnight1825]

middle eastern here I totally agree with you I hate the whole purity thing and it being labeled as bad. like hello sex is completely normal why are you guys hating. also iv read a whole lot of BL with sex and the plot was amazing. I also read a bl with just 1 kiss scene like hello? are you sure you guys like each other

[@nessienessie3739]

hey many one kiss bls are good too...ive even read a no kiss one lol...name is earth is online...

[@elliesart_]

If they label sex as bad I HOPE they have the same hatred of the plethora of sex in hetero media 😂

[@firebluewood4064]

YOU ARE LYINGGG I love heartstopper as a westerner as it is nice but to say it’s better than tcgf is downright insane . Tcgf is beautifully crafted and so is heartstopper but tcgf has nearly 2000 pages of material to properly cultivate a love story that also isn’t explicit but god you know that they are deeply in love. Hua Cheng died for Xue Lian multiple times and did it again without a second thought. Which brings me to the point of the different genres. Heartstopper beautifully worked a nonfiction love story, TCGF beautifully worked a fiction love story. To say one is better than the other is complete blasphemy.

[@lavistelle6031]

We have been at war with the Heartstopper fandom since S1 came out because the fans just love to attack any other Bl claiming Heartstopper is the best representation ever. One even said Alice Oseman is the leader of fighting homophobia and a "beacon of hope" and that MXTX doesn't even go to pride. Like, pride, in China. And TGCF doesn't even have sex scenes!! Anyone who doesn't know about danmei should not be speaking on the tipic. The genre is on life support because of censorship, TGCF will have a second season of its donghua that will only be aired internatiobally because it was banned in the mainland, authors literally went to prison, but somehow Oseman is a champion for Bl?? Don't get me wrong, every fight is valid, but the situations are not comparable. Danmei is a more difficult genre to analyze compared to Japanese, Korean or Thai Bls because of how much is rooted into Chinese culture. Comparing it to Heartbreaking is insulting. The fact that Oseman borrows tropes from Asian Bls just to bash them and promote Heartstopper is disgusting

[@korazz]

I completely agree, it’s all fun and games stealing tropes and then basically encouraging your impressionable (mostly younger) fans to frown on or openly insult the genre said tropes came from. It’s also SO funny that they praise outward, performative actions instead of the smaller ones. I can’t help but associate it with the very surface layer nature of Heartstopper’s story. There’s nothing to extrapolate, no hidden, underlying analysis to be had. It’s a simply bl story, and that’s okay! But when you build your whole basis for a ‘good story’ on ONE example…that’s where you miss a lot of nuance and expose your lack of critical thinking skills. I know a lot of people who love Heartstopper, and they’re very clearly unaware of this dispute. They’re also all adults, with better things to do rather than pick fights based on one or two grumpy tweets. And one other comparison that I feel really highlights the difference between Heartstopper and TGCF - we’ve been waiting for a TGCF live adaptation for YEARS and literally live in fear that it’ll get canceled out of nowhere because of the censorship laws in China that are only getting more strict. We’ve had two seasons of Heartstopper in two years with ZERO doubts that it would be released, and that there would be multiple kiss scenes/overtly romantic scenes. They come from two different cultures, and yet one of them is judging the other based on their own societal expectations and norms. It’s an inherently flawed argument.

[@danemeow8]

Can't agree with y'all in this thread more, both said it perfectly.

[@somerandompersonhi2028]

Technically mxtx being in jail is just a rumour started by mxtx antis so it's probably not true.

[@lavistelle6031]

@@somerandompersonhi2028 There was a super long deep analysis and her having been in jail is probably true. The person predicted she would have been released, end of 2021, and she reappered on social media exactly at the end of 2021. I truly hope she wasn't in jail and at least now she is free either way, but from the very long analysis there is way too much evidence. But still, they needed her signature to sell the adaptation rights of Eternal Faith (not the English translations of the books, they didn't need her permission), so it may mean she was never in jail considering the rights were sold during the period se was gone. Same with the little messages she wrote for the end volumes of Svsss and Mdzs English releases. We truly don't know, but there was a lot of evidence of her having been in jail. She is free, so that's the only thing that matters

[@mrs.katsukibakugou115]

I completely agree, often I see people overlooking that sex is also a part of these relationships and can have a positive impact on the story, recently I had this debate when comparing banana fish, kaze to ki no uta, twittering birds never fly and classmates, there's sex in two of those and yet everyone only sees classmates and banana fish because apparently the relationship is only valid of its sex less. Honestly at this point the stigma has been the reason why LGBT representation especially male representation is so held back,because the idea of two men engaging in something other than kissing and hand holding is too wild for the west to see and understand.

[@saikei6382]

This is definitely it, imposing a very puritanical standard to same sex literature is what hinders progress. Readers need to understand that sex between people of the same gender is normal, and if you are not into that, then there are pieces of literature that do not have them with the same theme. It is definitely wild to me that some readers automatically equate sex on an LGBTQ+ literary piece as fetishizing, when there are a plethora of them on other genres as well.

[@ichig0tchi]

but kusakabe and sajou do have sex even more “scanadlous” they do it inside the classroom 😂😂😂😂 what’s funny is that if fans who use its purity as the reason to like it and diss other IPs knew the rest of the author’s body of work they’d be crying and throwing up cuz the rest of her work is beyind questionable 💀

[@isabell746]

Hi, German here, I'm with u! I really don't get what's all the outrage about showing same sex intercourse. It's as much part of heteros*xual as homos*xual relationships and deserves representation as well. Ppl just need to chill. Geez!

[@beckyginger3432]

I'm british, gay and a massive comic and queer history nerd. This whole thing has me raging! There is barely any history of british gay comics. BL as a genre started around the 70s, yuri even earlier in the 1910s or 1920s. We have nothing even vaguely compareable. This backlash is misogynistic, racist, and rooted in the idea that gay liberation comes from the west (ignoring that a lot of homophobia comes from colonisation). So nowhere other than the west have "good rep" therefore it must be "bad rep" for fetishise. If british comics had the BL genre from the 70s. The stories i would be reading! The one queer comicbook author i can name who started before the 90s is Alison Bechdel.

[@yellowsoy2475]

Meanwhile, China had gay literature back in 1700’s. Hence the story of the cutsleeve

[@yellowsoy2475]

I’m more peeved off that the West feels it could put down Chinese Danmei when it was western ideals that brought about homophobia in modern day China and why censorship of gay content in Chinese media is still rampant today. A lot of the tropes in Danmei are a call back to ancient Chinese values where same sex relationships were quite readily accepted. The idea of sworn brothers and sisters was a noble thing of dedication towards each other but got lost because the West at the time. There was literature even dating back hundreds of years about gay relationships. The story of the cut sleeve being one of them

[@lightmaybebadbuthewasjustsilly]

i've read all of heartstopper, seen the series too even tho i didnt enjoy it much(don't attack me), but that was many years after i've read tgcf. tgcf genuinely opened my eyes to great storylines, amazing characters, heartwrecking romance and just an overall experience that i never even imagined. i read it in quite a short while, even tho i needed to take whole breaks between scenes because of their emotional impact on me. as someone who has experienced both, imma say this, tgcf is waaaaay better. heartstopper is really the safest, and quite honestly a bit boring, queer story. i genuinely believe it got big only because it's british. plus, they're two whole different stories that really don't have much in common except for the gay aspect. heartstopper is a mangle of queer characters in HIGH SCHOOL, who just do idk regular kids stuff, and tgcf is five(now 8 i think) whole books around war, loss, tragedy, love, gods, and much, much more, set in ANCIENT CHINA. on another note, i'm eastern european, and even tho i have pride parades sometimes, not even i can go in fear of hate crimes. china is one of the strictest countries when it comes to that, hell, tgcf only had a couple kissing scenes and no explicit sex(tho mentioned later in the extras) because of the censorship. westerners have no idea how lucky they are to even be able to enjoy queer romance freely, without the fear of being literally executed. there's many things i can forgive, but racism, xenophobia and ungratefulness(that comes with erasure of even a stupid acronym like BL, which stands for exactly what those stories are) is where i draw the line.

[@SilentMoon737]

I agree, i really love tgcf. It can't be compared to heartstopper...and the fact they are bringing tgcf in this...just pisses me off completely. Tgcf has so much emotion and- I can't even describe with words how beautifully written it is. I hope those heartstopper fans grow up and learn that not everyone has the circumstances to be able to openly support and go to those events. Rasicm towards anything "china" related is not okay. Also ,China needs to loosen their leash on this genre Sidenote- I'm Indian, a jungle asian

[@fishiefish2249]

ive never watched heartstopper but TGCF is a work of art, a masterpiece, and will never get old- i know i sound dramatic, but for me its the truth. the story is incredibly written and puts you through multiple emotional rollercoasters, and it sticks with you forever. seeing it compared to other stories makes me sad, because its truly incomparable. im sure heartstopper is great as well, and they are COMPLETELY different stories with different authors and characters from different backgrounds, and theyre not even the same genre, as TGCF is xianxia and from what i understand, heartstopper is realistic fiction. stories can succeed and be great without having to better than one another and compete.

[@enmu_lost70]

As an Chinese American born person who enjoys mostly eastern media(anime,manga,etc) and grew up around a lot of western, I see this type of conflict between fandom and internet culture too often and I wish there was peace between the two so I can enjoy both whenever and wherever

[@sageleaf8962]

I’m actually completely and utterly American, but I love all the stories from China, Japan, and Korea (as that’s mostly where my literature comes from). And I actually think, just based on what I’ve seen, it’s a good thing to have this discourse? For awhile, I was very anti ship (wherein, I thought liking/making problematic stuff was horrible) but it wasn’t until a twitter conversation that I changed my outlook on it. America is very very deep into the purity culture. So this kind of discussion is the only way to really try and understand each other

[@isabell746]

Agreed! Hi there, German here, I just don't understand all the outrage. I personally don't care at all where the story is from, as long as it's good! Btw, if u wanna read a really hilarious, adorkable and fluffy BL, try: I ship my rival x me! I'd advise you to read the novel first tho (I ship my adversary x me). Most funny thing I EVER read

[@leonorcarolino5765]

I'm Portuguese and got to BL by Heartstopper because I was so fascinated by someone finally representing me and my community. So I started by digging more and more and found Bl and Gl, but I preferred Bl instead of Gl because it had more stories and most of what I read had interesting plots and one of them was Heaven Official's blessing (TGCF). I don't see why the fandom of Heartstopper is battling with TGCF, because TGCF never fetishized or sexualized neither of the characters (maybe Hua Chen because of the clothes hehe) and I absolutely agree with your point of view, considering how much Westerns (I say it with experience by living with them) tend to devaluate Eastern's work. In the end, I'm grateful for both stories, because one opened the gates for my anxiety and obsession with BL and the other is one of my favourite Bl's.

[@neonight9]

As a westerner, it's just made worse by the people we grow up under. The only reason I'm as open minded as I am is probably because of the internet, but a startling amount of adults I know are both homophobic and xenophobic.

[@dudafox2351]

Ayo I'm portuguese as well!

[@leonorcarolino5765]

@@neonight9 I know right, I hope that one day the world will understand that every country has their culture but it can also be shared among other people from different nations, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[@leonorcarolino5765]

@@dudafox2351 Olá, é tão bom encontrar alguém português. De que cidade és? Eu sou de Leiria. Desculpa estar a ser um pouco precipitada, é que é a primeira vez que encontro uma portuguesa fã de BL como eu. O meu coração não aguenta tanta felicidade!

[@leonorcarolino5765]

@@dudafox2351 Eu moro em Leiria como leste no comentário anterior, mas eu tenho a maior parte da minha família mora em Viseu perto do Porto, por isso até que fica perto!!! Eu estou curiosa, quantos anos tens e como é que te tornaste uma fã de BL? Claro, se não te importares, espero não estar a ser muito cusca ou inconveniente. É um prazer enorme estar a falar contigo😁☺️

[@Galtron13]

I'm South African and I've read heavenly official blessing in bilibili comics and out of all the bl there's is was the most concerned, mostly focused on the story. It's quite ridiculous to see it get attacked over accusations it does not have,like there's not even a kiss in it ,why are they attacking it,ugh people

[@_dragonflies_]

I'm sorry, are you talking about the Manhua of Heaven Official's Blessing? Because the novel definitely has kissing in it lmao

[@Galtron13]

@@_dragonflies_ the manhua ,never read the novel

[@Kae_the_duck]

@@Galtron13 the book is soo goooood I highly recommend it 👌(also the manhua kinda twisted hau cheng’s personality)

[@Galtron13]

@@Kae_the_duck oh I'll check it out

[@Mialikesthings]

I’m also South African and 100% agree with you 😭

[@calinea1688]

I noticed this already in the Genshin Impact Fandom with the Diluc and Kaeya discourse, where Asians and ppl that know a tiny bit about chinese culture say this ship is legit (doesn't matter if they ship it or not) and the western Fans screaming how depraved and wrong this ship is and even threatening Fanartists and the VAs of said characters. I even read comments like "so chinese are okay with incest?" like wtf? Those commenters seem really hateful and out for blood. Why look for fights in fandoms? Why not care for real problems... Seeing that it's apparently also happening in other fandoms, it seems to be a bigger issue than I thought. I fear we must brace ourselves, a big storm is coming 😔

[@hncg-x1601]

Not to forget the term " Swon brother" is literky a Chinese term that it hard to translate it in English or any other language Sure the term is also used in other European countries by history Also notice the same people who went afther Chinese Forget that the game they play Is from the country they love to hate the fans for, not only that They literly believe in the ENG dub translastion while Many already told the ENG server there Translated have many Mistake and due that there a big misunderstanding with tekst content. Also the same very people who say " China love Incest" are the literly same people who Ship Eran x Mikasa who are LITERLY Incest characters meanwhile Diluc & Kaeya Are not. This why I truth the CN server and fans on the whole Genshim impact group, same with theory people

[@earthbornparanian6252]

As a Chinese Canadian I won't say that conclusion is completely baseless as I know that Citrus was apparently unironically adored in the CN community before it was was banned there, same goes to another series with "similar themes" called Addicted which you may or may not have heard about. That being said I do agree that some of the harassment and generalization of people is a bit too much.

[@JuneShepardN7]

Heartstopper picked a fight with the wrooooong fandom 😅 we have Qi Rong, we’re not messing around

[@arthur1428]

Big fan of both here! I was DEVASTATED when I found out that the Heartstopper and TGCF fandoms waged war against each other and haven't found a lot of coverage on it. IMO it definitely has to do with purity culture and the way people view BL. Bc Yaoi's "toxic" reputation in western fandom spaces stuck with a lot of people, a lot of mlm romance started to use BL in order to destigmatize the genre from what I've seen, however BL just got slapped w that same stigma of BAD, SEX-CRAZY, TOXIC. I think Alice Oseman, being the author of the comic since 2016 seeing this stigma, did not want to categorize her romance as a BL for that reason. The sad part is that many western fans still carry that stigma strongly, so anything that's asian and labelled as BL and has sex is immediately poopoo-ed on. TGCF was an easy target bc of the announcement of season 2 and the fact that its popularity grew massively around the same that the second season of Heartstopper was dropping. The two shows are different and beautiful in there own ways and trying to compare them is kinda dumb, especially when looking at the sex and purity aspect. The main couple is like 15 in heartstopper and in TGCF Xie Lian and Hua Cheng are literally centuries old, its so odd.

[@Toca_Moca]

I was a fan of both of these series at some point. I don't know it feels like the Netflix adaptation of Heartstopper changed the fandom for the worst. I never ended up watching the show even tho I was excited for it because the fandom unfortunately turned me away from wanting to consume it. Both are good I don't see why there has to be a fight. I've used the distinction between shounen-ai and yaoi as a marker for whether is had sex but to me it was never about one being good or bad just more of a distinction on whether it had it or didn't because sometimes I just want to read something without those scenes. One isn't inherently better than the other or better representation. I don't understand why so many people write off asian BL as being fetishy or bad but if someone enjoyed western gay media it is somehow better and more acceptable. Its pretty counter intuitive to claim to want more LGBT representation but then immediately dismiss something because of who wrote it or whether it has a sex scene or not.

[@nishikata3827]

I totally agree with you! It's like they say it's fetishizing but it's a media FOR CONSUMPTION and ENTERTAINMENT. Sure, there are bad apples in the community but not all of them fetishize or do some weird sht.

[@Tenshi6Tantou6Rei]

Yeah I always used it as a mood tag too. SOmetimes you wanna read some smut and sometimes you don't. The different names are useful at that time

[@isabellasuell3305]

Agreed. Book fandom was quiet and chill. Show fandom is the chronically online "one size fits all" kind that ruins a media.

[@HARU002-22]

I see and read both, but TGCF stole my heart since the first chapter of the novel, the characters, the plot, all of the history was just AMAZING. I cried like 3 weeks for Hua Cheng and Xie Lian after finished all the novel, and still crying for them 😭.

[@miramerali5807]

Thank for explaining the purity culture, I noticed it’s presence but had no idea what it is about 😮

[@sassysimonetheprincess1996]

As someone (a young, African-American, autistic, pansexual, AFAB individual) who has SEEN this discourse in how the Boyfriends webcomic (as well as its author Rey) was/is treated by western puriteens (even to the point where a shirt at Hot Topic with the characters on it got very scrutinized), it is very frustrating to see this happen. It even happens in a subsection of my favorite genre of anime (magical girls) where a vocal minority of people would dismiss magical boy anime like Cute High Earth Defense Club Love and Fairy Ranmaru as "Fujobait Trash for those nasty nasty girls" whenever someone mentions those shows in the discussion of magical boys in this genre. So yeah, Jellie. It really really sucks to see discourse like this all the time. I wish it would stop but I highly doubt it.

[@Lewis_McCartney]

Oml yes boyfriends got draggggggged so hard for the crime of... being cringe? Honestly I'm shocked the author kept on going with the amount of harassment they got. Propts to them tbh. Plenty of stright romance has the same tropes as Boyfriends, but I guess since it's queer it must be held to the highest standards, and queer media isn't *allowed* to be mediocre/and or not perfect. I saw other LGBT+ people, even other trans people, invalidate them because they didn't like the comic. Misgendering him because /that comic must have be written by an icky Fetishizing women and not an actual queer man/. How dare our biases and preconceived ideas towards how queer men represent themsleves be challenged! I haven't read the comic, but it seems like it's just a silly, light hearted romp with some "cringe" elements. It also seems pretty self-indulgent, which makes sense considering the author lives in a less than accepting country. I wonder if it would have been treated differently if it was from a western country like the states and wasn't geographically associated with Asian Bl? Who knows. But tbh I don't see western Bl webtoons get dragged nearly as much as eastern ones, but I might just be looking in the wrong places. (And yeah, the Author did a few controversial things. but I don't think any of it was irredeemable, it was years ago and they apologized. let's be honest, people and looked for it because they wanted a 'reason' to hate them, and to justify the bashing he got, not because they really cared.)

[@oceanseahorsesgachaandco.]

As a European, I'm not going to talk too much about Heartstopper because personally it didn't it me as hard as Tgcf did. I'm an angst loving person. I never made it through Heartstoppers first book so there might be angst but I just didn't reach it? But the writing was just better in Tgcf to me, I'm working on introducing my anime loving friends to mainly mxtx's works because I haven't watched/read any other authors so far. One of them is also already working on introducing others to the books because we both just love the writing. My friend hadn't read any books in a long time but just had to read the books because she thought that the anime/dongha was already awesome (She watched mdzs not tgcf, still enjoyed it regardless). She even started to watch "The Untamed" because she is captivated. It's hard for her to get motivated to read so that meant to me that she really enjoyed my suggestion.

[@oceanseahorsesgachaandco.]

I have never written such a long comment wtf-

[@damatically]

You must have loved book 4 😂

[@oceanseahorsesgachaandco.]

@denairasama yes in fact I did, it was really amazing

[@pappanalab]

Honestly yaoi and yuri were my first introduction to anything LGBT. It’s probably single-handedly the reason I realized I was a lesbian as early as I did. For me it was the representation I needed especially during the early 2010’s when LGBTQ media was a lot harder to come by. Even though there’s some questionable BL out there that doesn’t invalidate the good that better written stories are doing.

[@amuah2336]

I'm chinese and I actually wasn't aware of China getting pushed out of being a 'fancy asian' country. All my life I grew up thinking that everyone made assumptions that anything asian was chinese, which I've seen be flipped in recent years but never really put two and two together. But it definitely explains why I feel so vindicated in called tgcf a donghua instead of an anime. There was once someone who argued with me about it and I was never able to place why I felt so strongly about it, but now I do.

[@GrayeGoose]

I'm in the west and you're 100% right! Its hard to even talk about shows I like because everyone asumes it's all just, as Miyano says, a "Toxic substance." It sucks! TGCF has one of the most beautiful openings I've seen. The story is very sweet and subtle, it's a great watch. I haven't seen Heartstoppers, yet, but i don't see how these two could even clash other than both being BL? It's confusing, but I appreciate all the hard work you put into these videos. Thanks!

[@leaf8781]

Honestly I think people who are so pure like this should read TGCF because I'm sure their opinion would change. TGCF and Heart stopper are both very beautiful stories, Heart Stopper has a bisexual character in it, a bisexual main character so I'm going to love it because as a bisexual person we don't get enough named representation (named as in some people will be seen as bisexual in media but they won't outwardly say "I am bisexual" they're just shown with a boyfriend and girlfriend at different points. Or they're just straight up gay/lesbian) but the thing I love about TGCF is the story holds my attention way better. It is a beautiful heart wrenching story that has put me through slammer and to see it getting dragged through the mud is honestly hurtful. That's just my opinion on the thing I could make my own video if I had a KZbin channel honestly

[@nightfall5000]

Omg I love love LOVE the way you have framed this whole subject. I wholeheartedly agree with you that sex shouldn’t define what is considered “pure” or not in romance of any kind. As a fan of both series for VERY different reasons, comparing them seems so jarring as they are not even the same kind of story/genre. Yes they both have gay main characters with some troubled pasts but that’s it. One is a sweeping fantasy adventure story, with gruesome undertones of war and strife; and the other is a high school, slice of life romance with tragedy elements. As to which is better, that will depend on what kind of story the reader prefers and which resonates with them more.

[@cloud8005]

Heartstopper is fucking adorable, definitely a comfort show, and TGCF is a goddamn work of art (Hualian invented romance). Whether a bl is more smutty or more wholesome (which, by the way, tgcf doesn't have any explicit sex scenes, and heartstopper has plenty of discussion about sex including a novella about their first time together-- get your facts straight people) doesn't matter, it can be good lgbtq+ representation either way. Not everything gay has to be sexual, but it CAN be sexual and that's okay. What's really important is that the characters and relationships are treated with respect as a reflection of real people's experiences, rather then something to be fetishized.

[@SeokjinShizun]

Lol as a danmei fan pls dont be scared of the fandom lol I agree with everything you said in the video I'd love to see you make a video on Danmei. As someone who enjoyed heartstopper I was disappointed with alice's old remarks about BL the xenophobic is unreal the fact that she diminished Asian BL authors who cant openly be queer because they will literally get killed if they do the west really needs a wakeup call ! Western stans these days act like Gay people dont have sex and are not horny lol also when it comes to toxic stories people really need to separate fiction from reality like I wanna enjoy fucked up shit in peace because well its fiction and theres no way I'm doing that in reality so I wanna read about another character living my fucked up dreams looool but I also enjoy wholesome stuff 😂 anyway Danmei authors are so great you should definitely check out more danmei ,Also heartstopper is nice yes but theres tons of Asian Bl that have similar plot that do it better I'd have to say they're just not popular in the west cause people read the more R rated ones which I enjoy too but people should really diversify their knowledge before judging the entire genre I'm sorry but mxtx can write heartstopper but Alice oseman could never write tgcf loool I feel like people also need to separate Bl that's clearly suppose to be just p00rn from Bl that has like a properly storyline with smut people forget that BL is such a big genre and there are many genre within it . Anyway growing up I literally did not even know what Gay was until I discovered BL in like 8 grade I'm 23 now n very queer 😂 Japanese Bl has helped many people discover their own queerness it's so important because in so many Asian countries no one talks about LGBTQ openly I have a few danmei recommendations if you'd like ! 1. Xioa mogu (little mushroom) 2.sha po lang (by priest I love priest shes such a great author anything by priest is a win ) 3.SVSSS another one by mxtx this one is so FUN but its definitely not for everyone esp not for purity culture stans lol 4.Mou mou (they're getting a thai drama adaptation)edit: Taiwanese not thai lol 5.Saye (this will make you cry)

[@nessienessie3739]

I also love priest...so disappointed that Mo Du live action adaptation got cancelled...What's ur favorite by her? I've also read all 5 listed here, def good ones...little mushroom has a manhua adaptation now btw... I don't really understand the purity culture...like I'm Ace and usually sex scenes to me are either funny, boring or uncomfy but when it gets uncomfy and not necessary I can skip it...why do they feel they need to go out of their way to bash something if they don't like it...they can always, NOT READ IT?Is that so hard to understand... And to think that out of all thing it's tgcf which lacks explicit things compared to svsss or mdzs by mxtx... Why the hell no one told me about mou mou Thai adaptation? I still cant believe it...What's the title btw? that shit broke my heart 2 years ago...

[@sinnersouls]

Wait mou mou is getting an adaptation?! Omg could you tell me more about it 😭

[@SeokjinShizun]

​@@sinnersoulsyessssss as far as ik filming is completed !! A thai company bought the rights so it's a thai adaptation it'll probably air on yt I'm not sure if airing dates are out !*Taiwanese not thai 😂😅

[@sinnersouls]

@@SeokjinShizun aaaa I'm so happy 🥺 mou mou has been one of my favourite danmei and it's great to see it being loved.

[@sageleaf8962]

And if we go more broadly, it’s weird they have such a thing against smut? Like, sex is a normal human thing. I’m personally ace, so I don’t have much attachment to it and that might mean I’m just missing something, but where do people get the idea that we need to hide adults from it? Where do they think they came from? Where do they think their children will come from? Making sex such an unapproachable topic definitely isn’t helping the purity culture problem

[@LightbladeAbsol]

I've been obsessed with MXTX's works in general for the past 7 months, and this is the first I'm hearing about this whole situation. At the very least, all of the accounts I'm following on Twitter that talk about danmei haven't said anything. I'm sure Heartstopper has a good story, but hearing how the fans don't seem to be taking into account the story of TGCF at all breaks my heart a little. I'm almost fully caught up to the most recent official translated release and I can say that it is an amazing story. I don't get why there needs to be all this drama with BL in general. We all enjoy seeing to guys in love.

[@Meandsushiroll]

I’ve realize I’m now really too old for fandom wars…I saw the title and was like “wtf, don’t these people have bills?” Lol But after hearing your video…I def see ur point. It’s very weird heartstopper - a story about British teens would be compared to tgcf - a story about ancient Chinese gods and ghosts. One with like no sex in it either. Weird af.

[@killerpanda2086]

tgcf is like my first manhua that I read after watching the untamed (the first "bl" that I watched). tgcf is so much more than just secxs. The world building is crazy af . Heartstopper on the other hand is a pretty basic love story involving school kids. The simplicity, execution and acting are what pulled me to heartstopper. If I were to choose, I would go with tgcf, you can just get lost in the world. Then again both have their own charms and completely different genres, why are anyone comparing the both of them. 😒😒😒

[@tsukim8813]

As an european/frenchy fan of BL, I agree with most of what you said. I've seen this story when it came up and I was like "Huh ??!! What's happening ? Why ? How ?". I just don't understand the point of this fight : like different country = different culture, why bother to compare ? I've never read nor watch Heartstopper, don't plan to do so (seems kind of stereotypical to me) and the author's comments don't make me regret it at all. What's so bad about sex scenes ? If the story is great and the sex part is written correctly I don't see the problem. And why does people (western people mostly) only make a big deal of this when it's about gay sex ? There is a lot of straight love stories with sex scenes and people never complain about that... Gay or straight, in the end it's just a love story between 2 (sometimes more) peoples. And yes there is BL manga and manhwa without plot and only smut, but just like there is hentai and erotic romance novels. As a counterpart, people who always want the caracters to have sex or to kiss are as much annoying. Love doesn't always need to be physical. And why TGCF ????!!! Like if Xie Lian hadn't suffered enough... T_T

[@isabellasuell3305]

Don't watch the show. The comic is good if you want to read something light and feel good with minimal hurt that's immediately solved within the same book. It's not bad or poorly written, but if you've read something more nuanced like Heaven Official's Blessing or series like Given, this would feel very slow and slice of life. (I probably wouldn't have read Heartstopper if I had read the other two first. They're definitely more plot driven.)

[@endlesslylicy]

i have so much to say about this, but i also have no idea what to comment. I just hate how BL is immediately associated with women fetishing men, which really isnt true most of the time. It makes me feel so guilty whenever i just want to enjoy a BL story, bc my brain imagines all these people accusing me of suxualizing the characters (comming from a person who already doesnt like sexual content). Also, as a heartsopper and TGCF fan, this discourse is ridiculous, these two shouldn't be compared

[@Kameno-o]

"TGCF OR HEARTSTOPPER!!" Me, an intellectual: Both, both is good !!!

[@Maiosu]

I’m active in the TGCF fandom and I had literally no clue about this???😭

[@artemis754]

I like both series and I literally don't understand why there is such conflict? both are good in my opinion, but they have such different settings and therefore cannot be compared unless you're talking about the relationships alone.

[@TylPhumin]

I agree. I've been into Donghua (and consequently Manhua and chn webnovels) for a decade now and i've been trying to get ppl warmed up to it, trying to spread the love, showing them the insane animations, the heartwarming stories, the pretty art.. etc. But as soon as they know (see) it's not Japanese (or heck even korean when it comes to live action) they immediately put the "made in china" stamp on it (which has the negative stigma of it being cheap ware, in the west). I won't give up tho! I'll keep showing off and sharing all the nice things as good as I can! (Also politically active ppl might have the mindset of "i cannot support or like any of this chinese stuff, because that would mean i support whatever politics stuff is going on there

[@a.y.n.rupanddown5171]

I can definitly agree with the purity culture porrion. If i say that i read a yaoi manga my friends look at it really differently then if i say shounen ai. I mean, i do understand the need to diffrenciate cuz you do sometimes just want to avoid any sex jn your stories, but i feel like just saying that there is 18+ stuff in the story doesnt actually tell you about the nature of it. I also think that ppl think that just because something has sex in it, its necesserily is made for pornography reasons, but actually, alot of the time it is a really important and a realistic part of the story

[@fictionlover695]

It's so frustrating to see TGCF one of the best things I have ever read...to be dragged down like this...

[@kiara4843]

Not taking sides, but I'm taking sides, Tian Guan Ci Fu, forever. Period.

[@6Euphoria6]

8:58 THANK YOU for speaking for us. Not one time can I enjoy Chinese content on western platforms which a sinophobic comment. Even r/ cdrama isnt clean of them

[@mycobacteriem2540]

My BL experience is a bit different as a bi dude, but like I don't get the whole fanbases picking fights with each other over trivial things. Yeah, sometimes I can get a bit uncomfortable with the tropes and tendency to ignore the voices of actual gay men in the community, but I just try and keep walking and don't interact with things I know I won't like. I'm surprised they didn't come for MDZS over TGCF considering the extras for MDZS are....a lot.That part makes me giggle. Also with your whole, they don't like it bc it's from China point, I see that. I've been around parts of the community and people consistently ask about where they can watch the donghuas in Japanese., for a Chinese porperty.

[@valeriarossini543]

9:30 I know you say this is just your opinion, but you're definitely onto something here! I had no idea this fandom war was going on, thanks for the explanation

[@ShyLunaV]

There is so much I'd like to say but in short, this is an excellent video. Spot on. I'm glad I haven't come across this particular debate but I do see how purity culture has affected so much. I keep my bl community small with safe places that have people like me. I have so much I'd like to discuss but find it hard personally.

[@wintersoren]

Like you and many others have said, they are vastly different from each other and cannot be compared other than the fact the main couple are both male. I've read both but I am biased towards TGCF because of the crazy plot and while reading it had the realization that the way MXTX writes is something I've been craving and didn't know it. Heartstopper is cute, but I've read coming of age stories a lot and you can usually guess how those goes. As an American, I admit that I had a similar purity mindset this discourse is promoting back in highschool cause I went through a phase of just reading whatever yaoi I could find, and stumbling across some really messed up/toxic ones. But I've grown pass that and now know I just need a good plot/story with the romance, and that I'm also a sex repulse asexual. And now that Danmei novels are becoming more popular and accessible, I'm excited to read stories I've been missing out on.

[@Meimoons]

6:29 please make a video about this manga! I’m very curious about it and would love to hear more recommendations about it!

[@stepmaster9988]

It’s the Sinophobia! It’s all the rage in America and Europe right now

[@ArwenBaer]

I wasn't even aware that this was something happening! As someone who is very new and not very knowledgeable about these genres, thank you for the very thorough break down!

[@kaimareso]

Putting the discourse aside honestly I'd love it if you'd recommend manga even if it's not available in english especially any Chinese works you find because I'm literally learning Chinese in university to translate works that otherwise wouldn't be translated.

[@waterunderthebridge7950]

It’s kinda funny with all the purity debate ‘cuz I found myself drawn more to the Asian side _because_ Western media is more into the promiscuous aspects while Asian ones are more idealistic

[@jartalol31]

dude i watched queer as folk years ago, I thought western queer media is all about sex and depression. while BL has a lot more variety of stories to offer.

[@waterunderthebridge7950]

@@jartalol31 I guess there’s also a difference between shounen ai and the hard stuff. Still, Asian BL most of the time doesn’t feel as gritty and dark as a lot of Western media is

[@theevauwu7853]

5:40 funny cuz further down in the comics they do have sex 😭

[@arimamary92]

Hi, Josh! Great video. Thank you for sharing your perspective about East vs. West ideas on "proper/improper" queer stories. I have consumed both the TCGF donghua, novel, and the Heartstopper series and graphic novel. The last one is passable for my standards for reasons irrelevant to the type of intimacy displayed by the main couple. As an romance/s*x-repulsed ace, the Heartstopper series was too explicit for my taste and TGCF not enough but I'm aware that at the time TGCF was written, the laws around explicit content were pretty tight and a new version to TGCF was published recently. I can't imagine why those two sides of what seems to be the same coin are fighting and I respect the ideas you have brought forth. Xenophobia is an issue that will not stop anything soon. I think what bothers me the most about this situation is the policing of male-male sexuality and relationships when the target demographic isn't them. On another topic, I would like to encourage you to share the untranslated stories you have encountered. I'm watching another creator that makes essays about Japanese content that would otherwise never reach English reader/speakers ears and people seem to enjoy it. Perhaps by sharing what's not currently accessible because of a language barrier might motivate someone to pick it up.

[@notemiehehe]

Ok, personally I (a queer chinese american) think this is extremely petty. Like heartstopper was more or less my first lgbtq story and tgcf is my favorite. So what I think is tgcf is more for fantasy readers and heartstopper is for those of us who prefer realistic fiction. As for the fight, well it’s just stupid. Like, heartstopper DOES have a sex scene so like the “purity” thing is bs. And like fuck what are people even fighting about? Jealousy? And tbh the tgcf fandom is better(?) than the heartstopper one just cause I’m biased. Idk. Tgcf is very world-building, has a complex plot, and like is very character developing. Heartstopper would be a very good just like chillax read though.

[@okeydokeytodoroki325]

Both hold an important place in my heart but for very different reasons. It’s sad to see them pitted against each other like this

[@Rosenbell0912]

As a Chinese American, saying Heartstopper is better than TGCF is wild. TGCF's plot is so much deeper than whatever Heartstopper has. I have read both and I definitely prefer TGCF more. The fact that it's made by a chinese author might have something to do with it but you can't deny that the story is absolutely amazing. I have a friend who loves Heartstopper and she even said that the story is really just about a cute gay couple and nothing much to it.

[@Paula-133]

I am from the West and a woman of color. I love TGCF and all of MXTX lore. I would have to say you are correct about the reasons behind comparing to Western BL and the lack of reviews of MXTX's works and trying to disregard Danmei as Chinese. The massive appeal of MXTX's stories is growing regardless of attempts to interfere with its success. It's a juggernaut.

[@AUCreatoer]

Holysht my two favorite fandoms are having a battle?? HELLO??

[@bokuakatashi]

MXTX can write Heartstropper with her eyes closed, it is insany wild to even compare the two, hello? Obviously TGCF is beyond their generic romance comic, actually I've seen many that share similar story and aesthetic as heartstopper yet still do an even better job and still remain underrated, tgcf has layers and depth, well crafted and all of the above, basically everyhting heartstopper isn't. And these people have the audacity to go at it lmao

[@MerryMsi]

As a tgcf fan i think the noval has a deap storyline and show how much true love can wait

[@RoseNZieg]

i'm watching from the sideline as a qq and 2ha fans. popcorn included!!

[@eleonorazannelli6597]

As an EU citizen: WTF? I didn't see Heartstroper but to me it look like a tipical coming of age, discovering and acepting your self series, nice and warm but nothing extrordinary, especially because there are billion story similar to this. Heaven official blessing is an high fantasy with a main queer cupple, the protagonist here are adult: they know what they want, what they are and they are trying to resolve complex political and ethical situation. I don't get how the tow collide except it to be a way to beeing critical for the sake of beeing critical. It may be correlate to racism but I'm not shure. For me it's just to much no-sense

[@catgames703]

European here! For me, I never made the distinction between shounen ai good and yaoi bad- it was more like to know whether I wanted to read spicy or not. Before it was becuase I was young and now it's so I can read them public. As a European, I do dislike it when people lump Europe and America together. I feel like there are just a fundamentally different views on life. I lived in Eastern European country and now I live in a Central European country and while I would say that both are rather sex positive, I do feel like there is more if a purity culture in Eastern European countries. But I haven't lived there for a decade now, so who knows how things are these days. From my experience, stories with sex aren't seen as less pure or wholesome. People just warn each other of they recommend a book/series/comic/manga etc. Whether it has sex scenes or not since not everyone likes to see/read about sex. I don't think any of the people around me saw a story any less worthy or better just because it had sex or didn't have sex. But this is just my experience! Feel free to correct or say how you have it in the replies!

[@animeliabobbins]

Good stories are good stories no matter where they come from! I love Heartstopper and TGCF but for completely different reasons.

[@rosienationx]

Wait until the hardcore "wholesome heartstopper" fans realize that *spoilers* nick and Charlie have/talk about having sex in the fifth volume 😮

[@kpopiarainyourarea7066]

So, this is the first time I see your channel (I really enjoyed the video and I subscribed). As an European I think that Heartstopper fans are making a fuss over literally NOTHING. They attacked Tgcf fandom (and the author) out of blue, because of what? Despite of the fact that Tgcf has no sex (if we don't count extras), sex itself isn't smth bad, is it? If it's about MATURE, ADULT people, who are in healthy relationship it's normal... Heartstopper is about TEENAGERS, and that' s a difference, Heartstopper fans. And the other thing- Heartstopper fans started all of it, because of MXTX hidden identity. We don't know, who she is, but I find it completely understandable, because of chinese society and strict laws. What's so bad about caring about your safety and not getting in danger? It's not like Alice had to take some risk to attend the pride event, unlike MXTX. Also, why did she tell that Hearstopper isn't Boys Love? Her book's about two boys who LOVE eachother. Isn't it the definition of Boys Love, or am I wrong??? I prefer Tgcf, but I tried to look at this case objectively. It's just that this all Heartstopper fans' attack DOES NOT have sense at all.

[@Cazp3r]

I prefer seeing more of this then people screaming about tracing in the Gacha community 😂 (I’m so glad I watched this video)

[@ayuumorienjoyer5913]

BUT THE REAL QUESTION IS, WHY WOULD ANYONE START SHIT WITH TIAN GUAN CI FU?? BRO IT'S FUCKING TGCF WE DON'T DO SHIT WE JUST SHARE CUTE LITTLE MEMES AND WRITE SILLY LITTLE FANFICS AND DRAW GORGEOUS FANART AND ARE ALL 800+ AT HEART. WE ARE SO MENTALLY OLD AND QUIET THAT FIGHTING US ISN'T EVEN ENTERTAINING LIKE WHAT THE FUCK??

[@XieLianOrNothing]

As someone from Canada I completely agree with you and I think it’s weird that they decided to bring our beloved TGCF into this instead of something like jinx. I also find it funny that their saying all that when part of the plot of TGCF is XieLian having to be clean for his cultivation. I personally read MXTX and Meatbun books and watch heartstopper so I have no idea why anyone would start this. I’d also like to say that the heartstopper fans really picked the wrong fandom to anger 😂.

[@alexrenschler7253]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. There's no reason to even compare these two. Also can we talk about things that ARE finally getting translated and their taking out scenes to censor it????

[@greenghost636]

I had no idea about this!! What type of scenes are being removed?

[@hotcocoa9825]

you could not have explained it better with the racially motivated part, if tgcf or mdzs was produced in japan, it would probably gain a larger audience. And that really begs the question are you watching anime cause its japanese or because you appreciate the medium

[@TheSourLemon.]

This is WILD. Havent seen anything related to heartstopper, and I am a very hardcore fan in the TGCF fandom (I like all of MXTX’s novels), so This is just bizzarre to me. Cant really say much on the topic tho, since I have little to no information of the other media. But wow, how did this even happen?

[@crackhouse4253]

As a massive tgcf fan, im not even surprised it was heartstopper

[@boredperson-xj1ks]

i love tgcf and heartstopper, i was not aware of this at all-

[@icvntxx]

watching this as a member of both fandoms💪

[@Xie_Huan]

I just found this, I didn’t even knew about this, I’m so such a fan about this two works 😭😭 I’m in both fandoms wtf, you can’t compare them at all Edit: tbh this makes me mad, as I say, I’m in both fandom and I’m in the healthy part of both fandoms, so this is new to me, but, knowing that part of the Heartstopper fandom MADE Kit Connor get out of the closet by FORCE, i’m not that surprised by a part of the Heartstopper fandom being merely toxic tbh And well, talking about the tgcf fandom, they can be intense but I have never seen them being agressive (just maybe the Chinese fans when someone ships something that is not canon) Whatsoever, this two works cannot be compare, Tgcf is a long novel about ancestral Chinese times with goths, gods, demons, etc, yes, is a BL, but the story is not just that, and is not sexualize, specially tgcf doesn’t have any sex scene, even if it had it I don’t find anything bad with it, because is not the only think the book is about. And heartstopper is a cute grafic novel that is focused in the live of teanagers dealing with love, sexuality , homophobia and mental health, thinks that are common and happens in realty, a story that is not fantasy. And if we talk about sexualizaing we should remember that Heartstopper have mentioned sex, even more that heartstopper and it’s okay IT’S PART OF A RELATIONSHIP!! And to talk about the support of the autors for the LGBT community is dumb, since you can’t compare a british autor with a Chinese author, Alice Oseman has all the liberty to show her support without this meaning that she can lose all her live because of her government, a difference of MXTX that if she show support, if she show respect she can loose everything, she can be arrested, she can be killed, the context of the countries is totally different, that is why you can’t compare them. THIS IS BASIC KNOWLEDGEMENT OF ANTROPOLOGY OR EVEN JUST LOGIC Why are people su stupid?

[@atlaskrr]

ok as someone who was a heartstopper fan first (reading the webcomic before the show even) and have sort of gotten into tgcf. this is just stupid. so a point i want to bring is that so much of asian bl is seen as fetishization and tropey also because of the fact a lot of westerners just like- don't have cultural context. like a lot of asian tropes like the immortal x mortal or the large age gaps because of immortality have always been prevalent in east asian stories. like we had fox spirits of questionable ages with humans even back then like with tamamizu among others. also having femme x masc is also part of it. sapphics in china like to group themselves into their own version of the westerns femme and masc more prevelantly with an in between category as well. im not sure if that applies to achillieans in china too but i think whats happening with the sapphics adds enough context. i also think this has a lot to do with westerners seeing themselves as the progressive ones because their country's governments have less censorship and laws on lgbt content or open discrimination from society compared to asian countries (as an indo i would know) when a lot of asian communities are fighting but unregarded because they are being silenced/seen as not making big statements or changes (they could be severly punished for doing so ppl have to realize that). theyre forgetting how much asian queer communities are fighting to make progress because to them asian countries are just oppressive and homophobic which can be true for the governments but it is unfair to be blind to the queer people in said countries. this all just goes down to perception of asian countries and ignorance to their respective cultures.

[@natka-puppet3782]

As TGCF fan i can aceppt other BL whatever they are from, but stop pulling TGCF into something like this discourse . It is normal in love story to after some time to have sex between the couple ,of course, it doesn't have to be in every story.

[@damatically]

Lawd if mxtx dont have ccp breathing on her neck the time she was writing tgcf just imagine the smut we can get 😏

[@6Euphoria6]

Dont bring ccp into this. This is tiring. Smut loaded chapters isnt her style and this isnt the story she wants to tell. Also MXTX stopped wroting BL not bc blah blah ccp. Its bc OTHER BL fandoms were JEALOUS of her and cyberbullied her into early retirement

[@sageleaf8962]

@@6Euphoria6eh, there could be multiple reasons. Of course, it’s possible MXTX just doesn’t want to write it, but based on Scum Villain, I’m pretty sure that’s not an issue.

[@6Euphoria6]

@sageleaf8962 you know if you didn't know yet, there's plenty of smutty danmei put there if you're so horny. Ive got bdsm, incest, adoptive father x son, father x son(technically), etc. Which one would you like? All danmei in case you think we cant write this shit in China.

[@SoilYT]

As a British person, I have no idea why Heartstopper fans would hate on it 😭 I also think that it’s because it’s Chinese and they probably associate it with jinx or something (even though they are completely different)

[@linkth2247]

As a person who reads bl comics for 5 years, I still honestly can't tell the difference between bl, shounen ai or yaoi. All I know is that it is bl and I love reading them lol. (I read heartstopper once and it progressed really quickly so I dropped it- )

[@trixxart777]

Yeah I do understand why something like Heatstopper wouldn't have overly sexual scenes not only is it supposed to be overall more targeted at younger teens also the characters are teens just starting to discovering there sexuality.

[@trixxart777]

I think in general trying to compare these shows is kind of silly since they are two completely different shows targets are different ordinances

[@sageleaf8962]

Heartstopper is supposed to be cute and fluffy. It’s a great way to continue normalizing gay people. But it’s pretty much just a slice of life. It’s not special. Other countries (hell, even America) have done that before. In the same vein, tgcf isn’t the first really complicated/long gay story. It doesn’t even have the best plot (although, that is just my personal opinion and it is amazing) But neither of them are trying to compete with the other. They’re such opposites in the bl genre- representing two completely different sides, that they work together far more than they oppose each other.

[@EliskaBrouckova]

tgcf team! (late) also, Motionless in white are banging!! Love em :D

[@saltpackets127]

Omg I didn’t even know there was a war between those fandoms (honestly I prefer tgcf more maybe because they’re 2d) and yeah it does seem racially ,motivated

[@spaceyparker]

They went out after the least explicit of MXTX works it implied yes in the EXTRAS as a fan of both it unfair to compare both especially when one is from country were be lgbtq supporter are not allowed to show it for fear of putting themselves in danger

[@manimations7007]

Yea all the BL I’ve read were from Japan, South Korea in webtoon form or Chinese BL Manhua. All from across Asia not the west side.

[@Olgierdou]

6:32 I miss the title?

[@miershyk]

This! This is so much! It's not just between the Asian/Western demography when it comes to BL. Mind you, in my head all BL is a general umbrella for both yaoi and shounen-ai. Not every BL needs to have sex scene, and whether there is or not doesn't matter if the story is good and is a story between two men. I've not even heard of Heartstopper but to compare TGCF which barely has any explicit scenes (other than a few kisses, the odd statue scene, and the extra which is more implied than anything) has me baffled. Western audiences/readers also seems to forget that for Asians, it's not as easy as coming out and supporting your own work. It's laughable to force one's own mentality upon others and then judge them if they don't follow you. Yo, hey, Malaysian here as well and I also want to say kudos for this video because I was so confused about this whole drama. In short, it really is the whole purity culture of some Western people that must "protect" the characters and their fandom.

[@winxforever]

As someone that lives in Hawaii I completely agree

[@Xvarwerz_bg]

In my local bookstores we only have heartstopper because it's more...mainstream I guess. I would've loved to be able to find TGCF too, but I know that most likely won't happen because it's not as "popular". I didn't even know this conflict existed, I think it's stupid. Plus like there is litterally and implied sex scene in Heartstopper - if that's not a double-standard, I don't know what it

[@eunice9937]

Why are ya'll comparing TGCF with Heartstopper it's like two totally different things if ya'll wanna compare bl bring it on lemme get my lists up🤣/j (but look at my collection) Young Royals, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, Scum Villan’s Self saving system, Global University Entrance Examination, Red white royal blue, Dakaichi, Given, Sasaki to Miyano, Thousand Autumns, Breaking through the clouds, Qiang Jin Jiu, The Husky and His White Cat Shizun, I told the sun about you, 2gether, Kin Porsche, Until we meet again, cutie pie, bed friend, Cherry Blossoms after winter, Sk8, Stranger By the Beach, Jinx, Omega complex, Taming the tiger, 19 days, Painter of the night, Love is an illusion, waterside night, Ballin and Li Yun, Castle swimmer, Secret Inside My Head, Debt of Love, Boy Girlfriend, Cold-Blooded Beast, Hyperventilation, mignon, (OH WHY HAS IT REACHED THE MANHUAS NOW) Anyways just don't compare bl cause doing that is just not helping plusit's two different stories, so I don't get what's that point of doing so 🤷‍♀ and how on earth did tgcf get dragged into this like tgcf have the luckiest fandom ever like they are just nice in general how are ya'll getting them involved

[@eunice9937]

Btw I strongly agree to the author can we please drop the s3x markings on for the comparison for "good" bl and "bad" bl like come on!

[@eunice9937]

Ngl Jellie said it right like compared to other countries I myself thinks that the danmei in CHina are much more complexed, and focus on the story more than just adding "糖" and putting sweet moments in the story like they focus onto the story telling behind it much more

[@alicatfelix5144]

All my friends know heart stopper but not tgcf i told them but they never go and read😢😢

[@trisstana]

threaten them 😂

[@sageleaf8962]

I mean, tgcf is completely different and a huge commitment. Obviously that doesn’t make it less good, but it does make it almost incomparable