BBC Transphobia? Or Just Terrible Journalism? (Or Both?!)

[@zayisaperson6696]

Not finished with the video quite yet, but this article is not looking good, my mother constantly reads the BBC and seems to think everything that comes out of their writing is fact. I'm concerned as she is one of those people at the tipping point of being transphobic or an ally, despite my best efforts, I hope she dose not read or take this article seriously.

[@dragonzrsick2543]

I love your profile pic.

[@zayisaperson6696]

@@dragonzrsick2543 Thanks! :D

[@verilybitchie]

UPDATE 31/5/22: BBC has admitted it falls below their standards of journalism. They have changed the title of the article and made a note about the Get the L Out survey being statistically bollocks: www.bbc.co.uk/contact/ecu/newsonlineoctober2021 Still a trash article though. The whole thing was written with a massive anti-trans bias and putting some wite-out on the embarrassing bits doesn't make it any less so. Original comment: I wasn't aware of things going on with one of the interviewees in the article, a cis lesbian sexual abuser. The article doesn't mention allegations of sexual abuse against Cade, as this doesn't serve the article's agenda. The week after I posted this, Cade called for the murder of trans women. The BBC has since removed her from the article. They're not going to confront the fact that their sources were overwhelmingly radicalised people who despise trans women, they're just cutting that out and pretending its all fine. kzbin.info/www/bejne/bYqQnpSQl9yibMU www.newsweek.com/anti-transgender-activist-quoted-bbc-calls-trans-women-lynched-1645231 www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/lily-cade-calls-for-violence-against-trans-women-after-bbc-article-backlash/ www.thenational.scot/news/19691745.bbc-scandal-lily-cade-calls-trans-women-executed/

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mask off fuckers

[@anirudhg4194]

Shaun did a great video on this and went into some detail about Cade. From a trans person in a shitty transphobic country to another - sending you love and support.

[@chiarapuppo3087]

hi I watched both your video and Shaun's series of videos about the subject just now. I wanted to know if y'all achieved to force the bbc to remove the article completely? I find the whole situation outrageous. lots of love and support from Argentina xx

[@rgs8970]

"You have to not marry people all the time-- that's part of dating" Verily 2021

[@jamkwasowski5207]

Oh THIS is why I'm bad at dating

[@MissPoplarLeaf]

@@jamkwasowski5207 oops, here I go marrying again!

[@jamkwasowski5207]

I know. I'm trying to quit. But one more won't hurt?

[@mewmew6158]

@@jamkwasowski5207 🤣felt this so hard, I meet someone and "may I have your hand in marriage" just comes out

[@jamkwasowski5207]

@@mewmew6158 my fave chat up line 🙈

[@Tijggie82]

"I've looked down and... Seen things." *Gasp* *Clutches pearls* *Faints*

[@mossypunk4039]

I fucking CACKLED 😂😂

[@Syurtpiutha]

With the right intonation that can be a great descriptor of the feeling of body dysphoria. Great stuff.

[@merrittanimation7721]

"I didn't put my clothes on in great light, so when I saw I put plaid with polka dots I nearly fainted on the bus to work"

[@homerdripson406]

1:12 Feel like Russel T. Davies could just cast himself as the next doctor from that clip alone.

[@malenixius]

That's the only thing that'd get me watching dw again

[@basedbattledroid3507]

I'm so frickin happy he's coming back to write the show

[@finalgwen]

It's such a wreck, thanks for doing this video on it. The article also uncritically quoting Lily Cade with a nice smiling picture and deciding not to mention the numerous allegations of sexual assault against her is also... A choice. Seems like women's consent is only important if trans people are involved.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

Right?! I was *speechless* at that! "This poor cis r*pist feels pressured by trans women!" Oh, sorry, I forgot, according to UK law, it can't be r*pe if it doesn't involve a pEnIs, because of course that makes aaaaaall the difference /sarcasm There are actually several vocal (cis female) TERFs with dodgy records of "alleged" sexual consent violations, including the Fake Goth...every accusation is a projection with that lot!

[@LindaDanvers]

Not just alegations. Cade issued an apology where she admitted what she did. She downplayed it as misreading signals, but that was still a confession.

[@toriestrella]

@@LindaDanvers yeah, just like how she ended up writing that trans porn actress an 'apology' email where she instead makes it all about her. Utter irredeemable trashfire of a human being.

[@stug6974]

It feels like something The Onion would come up with. "Are women being pressured into sex? With us in the studio today, local serial rapist Lily Cade to weigh in on the issue."

[@xXMoonkiXtx]

Crazy how bigotry rots your abilities to do basic journalism and fact checking

[@NIRDIAN1]

Facts are just a nuisance to them...

[@gota7738]

You see it happen a lot with individuals but it's weird watching it happen to an entire broadcasting institution.

[@mishmash3927]

BBC is so infuriating. And when I was young, I thought they were the most objective news channel 🙄

[@TMJW]

It’s amazing how a few well placed transphobes can bias an entire nation’s reporting. Even The Guardian is terrible when it comes to reporting on these issues.

[@rojay4635]

This is news to Americans far as I know. Never heard anyone complain before

[@red-eyessolares1817]

I feel like the discourse of “having to date trans people” is a reflection on how there needs to be better sex education. Sex can be done in so many different ways yet it’s still taught in a very cishetnormative way.

[@guy-sl3kr]

It's so bizarre like, since when does anyone _have to_ date anyone else? Are these transphobes being held at gunpoint to have dinner with trans people or something lol

[@mirawest8510]

@@guy-sl3kr Obviously not, but it sounds a lot less whiney than "trans people exist in my general vicinity and that upsets me for reasons I refuse to introspect on"

[@copyrightcharacter1166]

@@guy-sl3kr Well, you do see online people are attacked or called transphobic for not wanting to date a trans person. typically lesbians. it's something you see online to deny it is silly.

[@beastcarleeto707]

@@copyrightcharacter1166 key word: online. As a lesbain I dont feel threatened by trans people, no ones holding a gun at my head telling me to date them, so why would I complain

[@copyrightcharacter1166]

@@beastcarleeto707 Yeah and it's the internet social media nonsense thats creating all this mess.

[@Ade_are_you_ok]

This is such a good video Verity.

[@tatsuyasuou]

finally someone else has been noticing this! i listen to radio four every morning and nearly every day cis people debate trans issues before it’s even 9am - usually those affecting trans women and often putting the trans community in a negative light, even using outdated language such as ‘biological ____’ rather than afab or amab. it’s ridiculous that our lives are treated as a hot button topic for cis people to discuss rather than an important fight for the rights of our community.

[@gota7738]

Pity too because the numbers "reported" in this article would make for one hell of an episode of More Or Less. There's voices on there I still like, but these days I just go look for other platforms.

[@justinwatson1510]

I’m sorry that trans rights didn’t keep up with gay rights. I think we are close to trans people being completely normalized in society, and that’s why there’s so much reactionary pushback happening.

[@ferninthehouse]

@@justinwatson1510 im not trans but "completely normalized" isnt true. trans people are just BEGINNING to be normalized.

[@DUWANGlai_kangyi]

@@justinwatson1510 Really, I think regarding trans general acceptance and legal rights/protections around the world, this is like what the 90s was to gay people.

[@justinwatson1510]

Re-read my comment.

[@gogetyourgun1490]

I hate how the "would you date a trans woman?" Is used as a "gotcha" question. It's a fucked up question in the first place because we're already establishing that trans women are inherently undesirable and we use them as "tests" for what cis people can put up with. Trans women are people and we shouldn't use them as desirability tests for cis people. It kinda reminds me how during school, people would ask others if they would date me because I was considered unattractive and it hurts that I was considered undesirable.

[@userbarra]

@Alice Wouldn't that make those lesbian not actually lesbians? If they are attracted to the same sex they would be attracted by trans man too...

[@theviewer6889]

@Alice Then those same sex attracted lesbians would be attracted to trans men, including post HRT trans men, right?

[@userbarra]

@Alice That does not make sense at all...Gender plays a way larger role than sex does. I didnt know that lesbians were so transphobic so thats news to me

[@NIRDIAN1]

@Alice It kind of is super transphobic because it means you date based on what you assume people's genitals are... Which is in itself already incredibly objectifying. MOST trans folk don't "look" trans, especially after a few years on HRT. They look like their gender. Trans women overwhelmingly look like cis women, trans men overwhelmingly look like cis men...

[@theviewer6889]

@Alice Then the dating becomes based on presumed genitalia, which is both trans and intersexphobic as it assumes that everyone who is afab has a vagina and that everyone who is amab has a penis.

[@forivall]

"""some""" doing a lot of work in that headline

[@TheDreamsMaster08]

I read this article yesterday and was pretty shocked. I dont know anything about journalism to be able to identify why it felt wrong, neither am i in any of the demographics at the centre of this debate, but even so it didnt even seem like the author was trying to hide their bias. I know family members would read it and take it as fact because it was written by the bbc though. Amazing and prompt video!

[@lime5276]

I'm so tired of all trans discourse focusing on whether or not cis people are attracted to us. like oh no the transphobic cis woman doesn't want to date me.... anyway

[@jamkwasowski5207]

Exactly. Just how hot do these people think they are, that their abhorrent personalities could be outweighed?

[@EZOnTheEyes]

The headline alone makes us out to seem predatory... Even as a straight trans gal I'm appalled. I can only hope things get better for the sisters across the pond on that forsaken isle...

[@fuzzle426]

@@scotlandtheinsane3359 found the transphobe

[@yarajoan841]

Tell them to stop doing it then simple, if you do not want the T come across as predatory. Typical male behavior, worried about how this will reflect on you rather than what happened to the victims jeez

[@EZOnTheEyes]

@@yarajoan841 your misgendering isn't funny and you completely miss the point of the video The BBC has been caught in 3 different falsehoods with one article. Along with involving, interviewing and quoting known sexual predator Lily Cade, after several people pointed this out in the writing process too. But sure, focus on the hypothetical scenarios they come up with in the article instead of the TERF they platform's actual history of assault. Have fun on the wrong side of the civil rights movements in history textbooks

[@trol_8889]

@@yarajoan841 You do it first with that Lily Cade person.

[@momoprior9132]

How does it feel to do better journalism in a few hours than the literal BBC in an entire year?

[@theviewer6889]

Probably not that impressive considering in order to fall beneath the bar set by the BBC you'd need to be limboing in Hades.

[@emberleighbowden7893]

With all this discourse I wonder if Davies will be inspired to make the Doctor openly trans if not have a companion be trans.

[@AndroJonny95]

Bethany Black for the 14th Doctor.

[@missyprime8198]

I'm not sure how the Dr could be made trans due to the regeneration. I'm 100% here for a trans companion, years ago when I first came out I wrote a fanfic where the 10th Dr had such a companion. He met her in boy mode as she wasn't out, then materialised his TARDIS in her front room one day when she was dressed as herself & his only comment was ""you look lovely". Then he took her to the future to show how society eventually accepts diversity & whilst away she gets to use future tech to transition. Unfortunately the laptop I wrote it on bricked on me & I lost everything.

[@bellarosethorne]

@@missyprime8198 that's a shame... your story sounds like prime who material! However I very much see a misunderstanding as a core conflict in it, with the doctor asking "are you sure?" and of course.. that gets a poor reaction, but eventually the doctor realises, apologises, and clarifies that they are only concerned with future tech being taken to the past, and the difficulty of returning to her own society and time, when the future tech would not be recorded, and it would not be easy to reassimilate, without aid comprehensively either providing a new Identity, or altering the previous.

[@pinkpincol]

"we're being pressured into sex by some trans women" I can tell u from an asexual view point most people are pressuring other people to have sex, u only really notice it when it's not something u want (specifically talking about all the marketing and scenes in film and media that don't need to be about sex but are)

[@NIRDIAN1]

Fellow ace here, (also transfem). And HOO BOY have I been pressured into sex by a cis woman partner... It was deeply upsetting... :|

[@themikaylashow1987]

I'm also asexual

[@spockezri]

yes omg! i just got texted unsolicited news by a cishet woman the other day (i'm a trans man) and it was so gross. but since it's ~ straight ~ it's not like, news article worthy or whatevsr

[@willowtdog6449]

I think that's a great point. For those who aren't Ace, which I am not, I think we really don't notice it unless the pressure is unwanted. We just don't even think about it.

[@basedbattledroid3507]

Same, ace trans woman here and my Instagram DMs are flooded with the penis photos of men from Florida to Tehran and all kinds of perverted messages, I think in the past three days nearly 50 people have tried to pressure me into sex

[@fivebyfivewhat]

Thank you so much for talking about this so eloquently. I am so frustrated by the British media’s attitude towards trans people, especially hiding their transphobia under seemingly unrelated headlines.

[@mishka_bear]

"I've looked down and... seen things." I'm stealing this to use the next time I have a conversation with someone who thinks I don't understand bodies and biology.

[@lucyhtml]

Thank god I am not the only one noticing the BBC's transphobia..... This is validating?

[@Sentientmatter8]

No they gave JK that journalism award for that Terfy article too.

[@lucyhtml]

@@Sentientmatter8 yeah, the cherry on top

[@suzannax]

But they do unbiased reporting 🙃 Completely, absolutely... according to them

[@transsexual_computer_faery]

no - plenty of us know about TERF island and its cabal of ..... what do i even call it? reactionary anti-science anti-human rights pieces of shit.

[@rojay4635]

@@suzannaxwait are they viewed like foxnews in the US? I’m American so idk

[@tamarblackburn4312]

It was an incredibly shallow one sided article. She also quotes someone saying that trans men mostly aren’t gay and therefore it’s not worth discussing their experiences with cis gay men - ehm yeah wtf that is not true. There are plenty of gay trans men.

[@kai_fatallysapphic]

Well I suppose since most of the population isn't gay it's not worth discussing them either by that logic. ya know what? Just forget about writing this whole article, cuz it's apparently pointless to talk about minorities' experiences. 🙃 Like what???

[@nerffiend]

Yup gay trans man here with my cis male partner, (it's because they like to cast trans men as "confused lesbians")

[@Sootielove]

By that logic, there was no reason to bring up trans lesbians, or even lesbians at all. These sorts of articles always try to ignore trans men, especially non-straight trans men

[@theviewer6889]

Even if you say there aren't a lot of gay trans men (not true), there are a huge amount of mlm trans men since a huge amount of the trans community also falls somewhere under the bisexual umbrella. Since a lot of those guys will also presumably end up dating cis dudes at some shouldn't it make sense to talk about it?

[@basedbattledroid3507]

I'm surprised they even mentioned trans men since most transphobes seem to think they don't exist

[@friskybitzboi]

Could you do a video about the potential links between political lesbianism and modern day TERF ideology? There seems to be some similarities and I’m wondering how far it goes

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

The very concept of "political lesbianism" is actually really anti-lesbian, because it isn't primarily about sapphic desire, but about avoiding contact with men. It treats lesbian relationships as a technique for withholding sexual acces from men, rather than genuine, valid relationships in their own right. It has no respect for female sexual desire, in fact, it tends to deny its existence alltogether, as it portrays female sexuality as a commodity to be withheld from men, rather than a pleasure shared with a partner (or more than one...) of whatever sex or gender. "Political lesbianism" and TERF ideology are, if you'll excuse the metaphor, conjoined twins, born in the 1970s. Janice Raymond's "The Transsexual Empire" from 1979 (or was it 76?) is basically the blueprint for today's TERFery...they literally haven't had an original though since bell bottoms and polyester were the height of effing fashion!

[@kathleen5800]

it's the same thing, just like matfem and radfem The same roots of transphobia and misogyny tbh

[@gravitygogogo]

Agreed. Great idea.

[@Artechiza]

@@kathleen5800 How would radfem be rooted in misogyny, though?

[@cojinmango]

@@gozerthegozarian9500 mmm... although I don't agree with the whole idea, what I do highlight from the political lesbianism proposal is the idea of judging an imposed heterosexuality that probably formed due to early exposition to only heterosexual relationships. The whole let's question ourselves for real and think what might be that stops us from loving other women is positive. However, it doesn't consider that some women are purely heterosexual and that it will not change (without mentioning, men are worth loving, yeah I said it).

[@ryn2844]

Riley's deleted video was also more like 'hey maybe consider your implicit biases when you categorically exclude trans people from your dating pool. You probably have been attracted to some, actually. But yeah no don't sleep with people you don't want to sleep with obviously' than like 'You have to sleep with trans women or you're a transphobe'. I remember having to defend that video from ásshats five years ago.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

TERFs lie, distort and misrepresent like they breathe. It's revolting!

[@clatterpigeon3845]

There is also the middle ground where you can be pro trans rights and respectful of trans people (use preferred pronouns etc.). However, when it comes to attraction, biological sex and secondary sexual characteristics are deeply integral to that attraction for most people. Yes, there are some (likely bisexual people) that are attracted to both, but most are one or the other. This whole argument has come down to radical trans activists saying that to have attraction to sex rather than gender makes you a terrible person - this has led a lot of people to react badly and defend their totally reasonable sexuality. They are not just implicit biases, they are primitive human feelings that run very deep. I am very liberal and open minded but even I have been called a TERF and had violent comments when I say what I think which just make trans activists look terrible and pushes people like me further away from their side of the argument.

[@ryn2844]

​@@clatterpigeon3845 I appreciate you trying to find nuance, but the point is that usually you are attracted to people BEFORE you see their genitals, otherwise why would you be seeing their genitals. Saying that you are attracted to sex rather than gender is saying that you can always tell what someone's sex is, which you realistically can't do. Nobody has a problem with people saying they don't want to sleep with people with certain genitals, but saying you can't experience attraction to trans people is simply false. You can't tell who is trans and who isn't. You very likely have unknowingly been attracted to trans people before. That doesn't mean you have to sleep with them, obviously. Also, not everyone who is attracted to trans people, or even everyone who wants to sleep with trans people, is bisexual. Genitals are not that important to ALL monosexual people. They ARE that important to a lot of people, but not everyone. Are you pro informed consent, as opposed to cis doctors dictating what trans people can and can't do with their bodies? Are you pro being able to change your legal gender marker without needing to medically transition? Are you pro trans people being able to use spaces that align with their gender identity, rather than their assigned sex at birth? If not, you are not pro trans rights. If you are pro those things, God do we need your help. Especially access to healthcare is urgent. Pronouns are a mere distraction from the true crises the trans community is facing. Join a political party, donate to an action group, find a petition to sign, email your MP's, whatever, something. If you say you're pro trans rights, back that up with actions, not just useless lip service and a willingness to use pronouns maybe someday when you meet a trans person once. That's not support. It's not allyship. It's just being 'not actively hateful'. I don't know where you live, but I do know that where you live there is a trans healthcare crisis, because that is the case everywhere. We're either dealing with ridiculous prices or with ridiculous waiting lists. In Europe (+UK), what we need to campaign for is informed consent, as opposed to the whole gender team diagnosis shebang we have now. Informed consent is the only way to eliminate the 5+ years long waiting lists. In the US, we need to campaign for medicare for all. They already have informed consent there, the monetary cost is their main hurdle. 'Radical trans activists' is a terf dog-whistle, as are a lot of the other things you said, so I'm not surprised that people have called you that. Of course violence and threats are never acceptable, but I think if an entire minority tells you your opinions are harmful, you should probably listen and find out why, rather than blaming them for your own harmful misconceptions.

[@gozerthegozarian9500]

@@clatterpigeon3845 Let me repeat it once again: We do notdemand of you to have sex with a trans person or be sexually attracted to them. We do not demand of you to accept every or even any sexual proposal from a trans person. Rejecting a random trans person's advances or not being attracted to them is not what is transphobic ( and nobody ever claimed it was!), what IS transphobic is declaring that you cannot be attracted to a trans person or accept a trans person's proposal BECAUSE they are trans. Trans women come in many looks and shapes, vastly varying ages, sizes, heights, hair colours and lengths, breast sized, skin colours, amounts of body hair, vocal timbres and yes, genital configurations. Only thing they've got in common is they're trans.Nobody is going to be attracted to all of them, but rejecting outright and on principle any possibility that you might be attracted to a trans person, any trans person...well, that is indeed transphobic, I am afraid. When you turn down anybody's advances, you owe them no explanation or justification - we feel as we feel, no harm, no foull. When you however volunteer an explanation or justification for your rejection and that explanation/justification is "You are trans.", then that is indeed a transphobic act. In short: Nobody is trying to make you have sex with trans people. We just would like to be rejected with dignity, rather than with a lecture about supposedly being inherently undesirable by virtue of who and what we are. I trust you to understand the difference.

[@rojay4635]

@@gozerthegozarian9500I don’t get it. I thought it had more of a realistic application on dating sites where lesbians where annoyed so their profiles would say no trans=as u say unfair, but on a lesbian only website it seems obvious that most of them have a goal to get away from d*ck…as opposed to a regular common site where writing the same would seem kinda incentive

[@thegillmachine]

That article had to be written by someone who got in a Twitter fight after spouting some transphobic shit. Their whole argument is very Twitter-argumenty to me.

[@NIRDIAN1]

So does the BBC ever issue corrections on just HOT MESSES of "reporting", or...?

[@jgbreezer]

I believe they have updated online articles before with corrections. There are also places they list corrections, but its never given the same weight as the original piece and any fanfare it got. I understand from my Communications degree-having spouse that you need to put significantly more effort/repeats into correcting a bad story that gets publicised, than the original, for the new version to be the accepted and known one (3×? Though not sure if about how best to quantify the effort for that stat to work)

[@matthewhopson964]

The BBC only answers to itself, and their Tory masters.

[@retrogiftsuk4812]

They do correct stories, but don't point out when they do, or what they've changed (I know because I got them to change a story this week which linked to a website giving incorrect advice re spotting spiked drinks) However I think they are more likely to ignore any complaints than change the story. However that's not a reason not to complain. Remember any positive trans articles will likely get complaints from TERFs so if no-one complains about articles such as this one they will continue to publish more such articles. If you do complain, it is worth reading the BBC's Editorial Guidelines so you can point out how they have breached them. FYI you have 4 weeks to complain about an article from the date it was published.

[@shinywarm6906]

Ive made several formal complaints about BBC coverage. I have had *some* replies, but never any acknowledgement that they might have got anything wrong. It's always excused by some vague reference to the BBC being committed to "balance" and that, even if the feature I am, complaining about is biased, at some point in the future, the BBC will somehow redress the imbalance

[@retrogiftsuk4812]

@@shinywarm6906 I'd encourage you to keep trying and escalate your complaint if you think they aren't listening. Most organisations use the early stages of the complaint process to filter out complaints. If you still don't have success, after 3 stages you can take it to ofcom (ofcom will only look at the complaint if you have been through the full BBC process first). Try and point out the exact points of the BBC editorial guidance they breach (probably in section 3, accuracy, and 4, impartiality) e.g. section 4.3.3. "There may be occasions when the omission of views or other material could jeopardise impartiality". I'm currently waiting on a final reply before taking a complaint (on a slightly different BBC bias) to ofcom.

[@alluneedislessthan3]

Cis lesbian here. I’m so sorry you have to hear and deal with this bs. I’m attracted to some trans women, and some I’m not. (As is the case with cis women lol imagine that). I’ve been hit on by trans women that I’m not attracted to, and like any other person I’m not attracted to, I politely turn them down if necessary and move on with my life. It’s really not that deep. If you feel the need to then go on a rant about how you’re not attracted to any trans women and shouldn’t be pressured etc. etc. unprovoked, methinks you may be really transphobic.

[@toriestrella]

bigotry is just gut-level disgust after all, with everything else beyond that feeling being a posthoc rationalisation for it

[@TorrentialStardust]

Not sure but it looks like to me that when people “aren’t attracted to trans women” it’s more that they “aren’t attracted to ugly women”. Like, all the things that mean a trans woman doesn’t pass are things that cis women also have like deep voices, broad shoulders and facial hair. It’s real weird and stinks of misogyny to me.

[@toriestrella]

@@TorrentialStardust If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an actual living, breathing lesbian or bi woman gush over deep voices, I could buy myself a pretty big lunch. 😅 Same with broad shoulders - although that is to say, muscular. It's funny how in......a certain type of discussion online that's viewed as a disgusting thing - but only on trans women.

[@toriestrella]

@@UniqueCommentary247 ok....do you want a prize or something

[@toriestrella]

@@toomanysandwiches8665 quote me where I indicated that they are.

[@mccabe1113]

The T in Russel T. Davies stands for Trans Rights

[@unfortunatelyevil1767]

Also, isn't that the argument against Lesbians? If a straight girl doesn't want to date a lesbian, then she is labeled homophobic, which oppresses her, so lesbians shouldn't exist. Like, it is the same argument, so either both lesbians and trans women should exist or neither, according to this "argument".

[@NIRDIAN1]

This entire wave of transmisogyny is LITERALLY just the Gay Panic from the 70s and 80s repacked and sent out again for another attempt to destroy "The Sinners"...

[@kwarra-an]

@@NIRDIAN1 and that whole gay panic is very reminiscent of anti-desegregation scaremongering. My mum was showing me some propaganda from apartheid South Africa the other day, and the stuff they say about white people being fOrcEd to share bathrooms with people of other ethnicities is exactly the same shit. It's all recycled.

[@thunderbird3304]

@@NIRDIAN1 Right? The rhetoric that they use has also been used to dismiss and villainize them in the past. Why they would turn around and use those same rhetoric to another marginalized community is frankly astonishing

[@ilinca3964]

well... no. Because trans women are women, just like cis women. And the definition of a lesbian is a non-man/woman/female-alligned person who is attracted to other women/non-men/female-alligned people. A straight girl is not attracted to women in the first place, so she cannot be homophobic. But the affirmation that "myself as a lesbian am not attracted to trans people", is based on transphobic ideas and cisheteronormative view, on a narrow perspective of how a trans people looks and is like. What I am trying to say, is that by saying that you are not attracted to trans people, you are not attracted to people as individuals, but rather based on a faulty definition of what makes you a lesbian. And let's be serious, you cannot know someone's gender before they tell you. And in most cases you cannot assume or know someone is trans before they tell you. If you assume someone's trans without them telling you, you just perpetuate some sterotypical ideas about how a woman/man looks like or what makes someone feminine/masculine. So you get attracted only when you find out someone's gender? This is funny.

[@Niniminns]

I feel like this discussion should end at the statements about how you don't have to date people you aren't attracted to. And. If you're saying you'd never date a trans person ask yourself why that is. You don't have to date a trans person but consider that you probably are afraid of something or have some biases. You don't have to go around calling yourself super straight o a gold star lesbian or whatever. If you do that I get why you'd face some criticism, because it implies that you have some biases. No one is entitled to know about your love life, and you're not transphobic just because you haven't been with a trans person. Fun fact: you can even be transphobic while you're in a relationship with a trans person! It's almost as if this bbc article discusses a non issue :O

[@GeneralBolas]

"You don't have to date a trans person but consider that you probably are afraid of something or have some biases." I wouldn't even go that far. It's important for us to accept that it is 100% OK to say that you wouldn't be interested in a trans person. That this does not make you a transphobe. By itself. But if you look at "the discourse" around the fallout from this article, I am seeing a *lot* of transphobia from the people saying that they wouldn't date a trans person. And I'm seeing very little genuine trans affirmation from them. I remember one tweet where a woman said she'd be fine dating a cis-woman or a trans-man. Which... is just transphobia: it's a unilateral declaration that trans-men are women. I've seen people describe being a trans-woman as "cosplay" and that they shouldn't be forced to play along. And all of these are from the "won't date a trans person" Twitter hashtags. Many even use the a priori trans-exclusionary "SistersNotCisters" hashtag (or something like that). I don't doubt that there are people who are both trans-affirming and would not be interested in dating a trans person of their desired gender(s). And we should allow them space to exercise their preferences, so we shouldn't assume anything about them from that fact *alone*. But if you talk to a lot of the people who are vocal about it, it doesn't take much them to tell on themselves about *why* they feel this way.

[@paulkemp8520]

I feel that it deffinitly CAN be tranphobic, but you can have a strong prefference for sausage or taco, same as a prefference for either cumberland or frankfrurt to keep the analogy going lol. Personally I feel sexual orientation is too tied up in peoples sense of self, if you identify as straight, but one day find someone of your gender hot, dont freak out, just get in there, its ok. Likewise if your homosexual and one day find some one of the opposit. I think (hope?) once this is widely accepted, it will end this issue so trans people can stop getting harrassed (especially by state funded media). Personaly I am bi though, so maybe its just me

[@Niniminns]

@@paulkemp8520 yea, but even if you have a strong preference for sausage - some trans men have one. So if you're saying you'd never date a trans man because of that you might also think most trans men are the same.

[@Niniminns]

@@GeneralBolas Yes, I didn't mean that everyone who doesn't want to date trans people are transphobic. I don't want to believe that. I just assume that some people who say that don't really understand what being trans means and feel more comfortable with cis people because they know what cis people look like I guess. I'd label that as a bias. I just think it's weird to have that preference when you might find yourself attracted to and fall for trans people even if you say you don't want to date them. But I think you could choose to not date that person if you're afraid that you'd have trouble using the correct language and prounounce and making them feel comfortable. I agree that people who are very vocal about not dating trans people seem to also be transphobic.

[@paulkemp8520]

@@Niniminns absoloutly, 100%!

[@vampire7240]

Literally as a transmasc lesbian I've been more welcome and loved and respected by trans women than any other person in the lgbt community. So I think I'll stick by trans women versus a "study". Love you trans women ❤🤗 Just found your channel on Tumblr, you have a magnetic personality and amazing hair so... subscribed

[@vampire7240]

@@chrisstoltz3648 hey you're good! Transmasc, at least to me, is my experience with transness. I am nonbinary, and I take testosterone to affirm my nonbinary identity and present in a way that makes me feel comfortable. Some transmascs are trans men, but others are just nonbinary going in a more masculine direction, so to speak haha! But yeah I'm happy to answer more questions and I appreciate how polite you're being

[@toriestrella]

@@chrisstoltz3648 I promise you that out in the real world, many cis lesbians aren't horrible like that at all. Though I understand that the vocal, disgusting stuff you hear online all the time makes it very hard to even gather the confidence to do that.

[@vampire7240]

@@chrisstoltz3648 I get what you mean but maybe word it differently? The phrasing comes across as like. Super lesbophobic lol

[@reptilli9005]

@@PepsiMagt they’re nonbinary, not a boy or a girl

[@vampire7240]

@@PepsiMagt read the comments

[@platypus6810]

anyone else sick of living in terf island

[@oynon]

Yeppp so hoping to leave one day

[@jospinner1183]

Why is the UK so full of TERFs? Seems like you've got more than the recommended allowance for them. (Here in the US, it's mostly just the conservatives who hate trans people, and they hate lesbians _almost_ as much.)

[@lewissmith5759]

i didnt realise how bad it was until recently, a lot of people have got some weird issues

[@albedougnut]

I do not even live on TERF Island, but even I am sick of living on TERF Island.

[@redcitadel9123]

*raises hand*

[@ArielVHarloff]

I love how chill you are about this. It makes me much calmer about this. Also Russel T Davies is a supportive king and I love it

[@lynn858]

I once responded, truthfully, to a message on a dating app saying: I was really sorry, their message was really lovely, but they look exactly like my ex’es little brother, and I just couldn’t. My thought: It was a great intro message! They deserve to know that their effort is appreciated, and that their strategy is good. Also, it’s funny how not your fault this is, maybe we can have a laugh? Their thought: Why can’t you like me?! Surely you can just get over it! Me: Uh no. I cannot get over the major familial tumult that kid put me in the middle of, even if I otherwise would have found him adequately attractive, which was pretty borderline ‘not my taste’ without the memories. In conclusion, debates over whether one can find the other sexually appealing, render the whole thing even less appealing, and rarely convince anyone.

[@Alicendre]

This is true in general of rejection, and not just in the dating scene. If you give someone the reason why you reject them (or their offer, etc), in their mind it turns your response into a negotiation. Learning to say no, firmly and without condition, can be hard but it's crucial! People will say "if you reject me at least say why" but you don't owe anyone that conversation.

[@GoldenHairErik]

The point about the "i see us as just friends" is what I always think about these controversial preferences too. Like, when did it become mandatory to tell people your life story when rejecting their advances? If you're not into trans people, cis people, skinny people, fat people etc. you can literally just tell the person "sorry, I'm not really feeling this" and be on your way.

[@tomharrison1393]

I read this obviously biased article this morning, had terrible feels, like if I didn't pick it apart then I'd feel bad the whole day. But I also didn't want to let the TERFs force me to do that work either. Then I got on KZbin and discovered you did an amazing job of exposing it as the propaganda it is. It felt like you released an awful pressure in my head. Thank you.

[@gota7738]

Honestly finding out the article was enough to send me plummeting so seeing this video both voicing what's wrong with it and presenting it with humour helped a bit.

[@laurakirwan999]

Lesbians are great. trans people are great. trans lesbians are great. That is all.

[@Niniminns]

Very strange to think that trans people's main concern is that not all people are attracted to them. As if they don't have to worry about their date being transphobic and violent. Sure, a lot of people worry about their looks and if they're "dateable". That doesn't mean we get mad when someone doesn't want to date us. If we want to talk about groups who actually can be violent when they get rejected. Why not talk about incels and men with toxic masculinity?

[@beth7935]

Exactly!!! Listening to all these unfounded accusations about trans women, I was thinking "hello, I think they're describing the wrong group here- surely they mean incels & other nasty straight cis men???" But no, let's not talk about loads of THEM killing their female partners _literally every day,_ or their exes or other women who reject them- let's just demonise a minority group who are far, FAR more likely to suffer violence than perpetuate it :(

[@TMJW]

"Lesbian Not Queer" - wow. So once they've routed all the trans folx, I expect they're going to get to work on the Bs and the Qs and the Is...

[@Treegona]

And the As are already unwelcome u_u

[@jamkwasowski5207]

They've always hated us Bs.

[@TMJW]

@@jamkwasowski5207 Exactly, all the more reason for solidarity. Don’t think you’re “safe” if you aren’t trans, this impacts us all

[@jamkwasowski5207]

Absolutely ❤️

[@charliekahn4205]

@@Treegona I'd figured they'd force the As to say they're Ls.

[@victoriajankowski1197]

I love how they fail to mention the (at least from what my trans friends have told me) the problematically high number of trans-people approached on dating apps by people who fetishizes them and who either can't take no for an answer or fail to mention the nature of their interest up front.. No kink shaming but not everyone wants to BE a fetish

[@LunaJade]

I find these sort of anti-trans lesbian discussions so interesting because I’ve never honestly had an issue with another lesbian. I’ve only had issues with bi women, and I don’t know why. But I think it demonstrates a very dishonest media narrative of lesbians and trans women artificially being pitted against each other, aswell the promotes this idea that trans women can and only should date bi women (which implicitly both devalues trans women and lesbians)

[@LunaJade]

I think it also shows that even though dating preferences are generally valid, dating preferences often don’t have anything to do with sexuality and usually instead are based misunderstanding of trans women or prejudice.

[@somik-i3x]

Journalist : Are you an hate group ? Hate group: Eh eh eh, no ? Journalist : Okay seems legit (Ignoring all the evidences of their hate)

[@aubreetanner9543]

Why does everyone always focus on lesbians dating trans people and not straight men, straight women, or gay men?

[@Sootielove]

My biggest issue with the article aside from the obvious bigotry and platforming is that it's so obvious to see how it's bigoted if you replaced "trans women" with "lesbians" or even "black men". The journalist should have known better than to hop onto this reoccurring trend of hate organisations making out groups to be predators. The BBC never would have published the article if the topic was instead "some black men are a danger to white women". Because, obviously that's tarring an entire demographic based on no statistical evidence. It's the government-funded and supported news for Christ's sake. We're meant to have protections and recognition of trans people in our law by the government and I can only hope things change for the better.

[@ememem2952]

And the Guardian too is also doing transphobic stuff like employing transphobic writers and promoting transphobic books. I hate it, we deserve better

[@fabfran4104]

You've got to be kidding. Every day there's a pro trans piece in the Guardian.

[@ememem2952]

@@fabfran4104 I know!! its so fucking awful like one book review the author compared trans people & allies to ISIS and the book reviewer was like 'oh maybe that's a bit too much'. ffs

[@scapegoatiscariot2767]

All these years of not learning and trying to deceive people have left them vulnerable to showing their own stupidity.

[@alaspoyorick]

4:20 ngl, this “research” tools and methods section is absolutely hilarious. It looks like it was written by a high school/undergrad who scans through research papers to find words that support their sentence. And they’re publicly fighting their Ethics Committee in their paper??? I just really hope that study was self-funded

[@Pandapear]

As a lesbian who has been coming to terms with possibly being nonbinary… can we just disown these guys :’)

[@MercuriaObscura]

And this is why I want to work for a media house as an information specialist - to supply proper effing research to journalists, so that they cannot claim they did not find information...

[@vex7550]

This article read like someone half-remembered 4 tumblr posts from 10 years ago and was like "yeah. I can make an article from that"

[@clegs8356]

"sorry, ge-gender... criticism...?" **excessive glasses adjusting** im DED you're very correct and also very funny ty for the vid

[@Meggsie]

Can a transwoman pressure me? I'd like to be pressured.

[@Meggsie]

@mandy moo I guess I'll just be bi-myself until I'm old enough 😩

[@toriestrella]

Pressure to go clean your room or something 😅

[@Meggsie]

@@toriestrella or something 🤔

[@eldritchexploited5462]

I will apply a force of exactly 300 psi.

[@zamnodorszk7898]

It's all just "concerns", as if they in themselves have veracity, with no regard to quantitative proof of the issue. After 2001 people had "concerns" about sharing flights with muslims, and legislation responding to irrational concerns would have been stupid. Luckily for the muslim community, - oh. wait.

[@Pencliff]

It's truly depressing seeing just how shitty The BBC have been lately with their LGBT (and especially the T) related 'news' stories/podcasts I made a complaint, though I doubt that it will have any affect. Now If only there were someway I could directly pay RTD for his upcoming Doctor Who run instead of giving the beeb any money 😜

[@glitterbomb1162]

Thank you for covering this topic. I feel like a lot of Americans have trusted BBC journalism for a long time as an alternative to our own highly commercialized news sources. And people like you are finally bringing its shortcomings to our attention.

[@LyraGluten]

This is such an important video please keep raising your voice We need articulate voices to keep spreading their shine so we don’t get drowned out 💖💖💖

[@hazell1304]

My fave and appropriate quote on journalism "one side may say it's raining, one side may say it's clear. The job of the journalist isn't to promote both but to look outside and find the TRUTH" the "gotta give everyone a voice even if said voice is fiction and spreads hatred" is such a problem in the BBC, and it's backfired on them anyway because now the Tories who they gave a voice despite reality + physics proving they're wrong, are now using them as a scapegoat like any cheap villain

[@khaxjc1]

Oh the humor of this made me smile so much which lovely given the depressing topic

[@killerfoxes2909]

As a nonbinary person who has dated a lot of trans women, I can tell you being nonbinary did not help me at all in getting dates. With cis women, it's likely to get me immedietely blocked. With trans women it doesn't get me blocked, but...pushed toward friendship rather than dating is certainly a thing. No complaints here by the way, just.....if I was pretending to be nonbinary, it would be incredibly stupid. Very rarely do people respect my identity, it makes most people confused (and while confused, ghosting seems to happen a lot rather than try to udnerstand it). Like I'll be honest, I'm in my 30s; and in my 20s I just passed as a cis man...I got plenty of dates at the time. Being a semi-feminine and passive man was liked by a lot of women (at least that was my experience). Coming out as nonbinary has made dating much much much much much much MUCH more difficult, with both trans and cis women (although again, trans women do tend to understand better and are more willing to hear me out than cis women).

[@trueits4]

You are not non-binary. Dude, you simply cannot admit that personality ≠ sex and you support gender(sex) stereotypes.

[@smileyp4535]

This was legitimately published in the BBC

[@celia1888]

People trying to deny the difference between sex and gender make no sense to me like...We literally use different words Male/men and Female/Women. Like Being confused about Non Binary identities makes sense bc we're used to binaries (It's the whole disrespecting /hurting them because you don't understand/dislike it that makes no sense). But the gender/sex difference is old even in our society so it's not even that novel of a concept

[@trueits4]

No bro, non-binary is not something WE ARE NOT USED TO, it’s something that doesn’t exist. We don't have to submit to religious fanatics, transgender people, non-binary people just because they want to play their roles.

[@celia1888]

@@trueits4 and yet there are cultures that have accepted similar concepts for hundreds of years at least. Like, when they're not forced to adhere to one gender over another, do you think each and every intersex person would automatically chose just one gender to identify as? And if so how would they chose? Most civilizations have had at the very least traces of that concept in their writings so it's literally older than most ancient societies.

[@trueits4]

@@celia1888 Because back then "gender" (real is sex)stereotypes were at their strongest? Women could not wear trousers and they considered it femininity. Same thing with gender roles.

[@trueits4]

@@celia1888 I don’t know if my comment has been sent, but I’ll say it again: before, strong gender stereotypes and roles had their place. Gender rights theory is simply illogical and impossible to implement. Intersex is a pathology that is so rare.

[@trueits4]

@@celia1888 So my comment is still not published In the past, "gender"(s eх) stereotypes and roles were normalized and there were many of them In those times Gender ideology in itself is illogical. Inter sex is a very rare p@tholøgy (I have no idea why KZbin doesn't allow this)

[@alisadavies8943]

Thank you Verity!! I left twitter a few months ago because it was making me feel numb and depressed and overwhelmed, particularly about transphobia. But watching this meant I could hear what happened and immediately take action in an informed way. You're wonderful xx

[@bellablue5285]

Comment for the algorithm (Transphobia is revolting, and if by some strange twist it was truly just bad writing, someone needs to do better)

[@charlottesmith6247]

I love this video! I’m a cis lesbian and my gf is trans. The people who wrote this article are ridiculous, I love how you pulled them apart xx

[@foragegrasspause2gotoloop961]

"human female" I hear this in ferengi accent

[@CraigUntlNytTym]

i feel dumb... I have always read your channel name as "VerityBitchie" thinking it was obviously a doctor who reference... i just noticed it's actually ""Verily"

[@iseetheendisnear2416]

The most prominent misconceptions about trans people are the most hilarious. And that’s what makes them kinda scary. I’m scared that people are dumb enough to buy this.

[@lynn858]

Love it when I finish a video and can’t think of an angle or idea that was missed. Well done!

[@Orange-tf3bf]

God, this journalism is at least on par with the whole rapid onset gender dysphoria ""study"". What is the LGB on, honestly.

[@traedmoch1933]

All videos are improved by a snippet of Mitchell.

[@jasminet.5147]

first babe

[@djpekky]

This was an amazing response.

[@harry-annebentley5136]

Excellent vid, thanks for putting this all so elequently

[@linden5165]

I'm so impressed how quickly you turned this out, thank you for this work in response to something so awful on so many levels!

[@ultraemeraldjustice]

We've all forgotten about an assignment for a year and then had to pull together some bullshit in a few hours to meet the deadline 😄

[@Sam-uz3ov]

DO NOT Google "bbc lesbian"

[@polly9955]

You're so cute in your comfy clothes and vibes

[@alexanderfo3886]

Is it only my impression or are the media in the UK the most transphobic in the Western world? By the way, greeting to all transpeople on the isle. Stay strong, we on the continent are with you!

[@Sootielove]

The UK media, especially the last few years, has become increasingly and aggressively transphobic

[@davidgalland3070]

I'm gay. Dating a man who was trans wouldn't do it for me. I've never experienced any pressure or coercion to just do it anyway.

[@nationalhamleague5352]

It's so weird that while things have been getting better for the 'LGB' yet being transphobic is becoming morr acceptable?

[@grmgt]

The BBC is... well, going to sh*t lol.Great video, informational and funny as always you always are 💜 PS: Guys, there's also a complementary video by creator Shaun that tackles other parts of this repugnant article, i recommend it!

[@alexistoran2181]

Good to know the BBC is still unworthy of my respect. Worst study since Littman.

[@alexistoran2181]

@@PepsiMagt If a study is based exclusively on data from a clearly biased source, it's a bad study. That's one of the hardest rules in the scientific community.

[@Mayeko]

The glasses wiggling bit really got me laughing, excellent work as always ❤️

[@im_not_here_to_fight2744]

Thanks for the awesome breakdown of how shite the BBC is when covering Trans news!! I really loved how to-the-point you were! Also, the research you've done to completely annihilate their whole agenda is just brilliant 😎 I hope you're doing okay, all of the unnecessary hate considered. Please know it's okay to not do a topic if it upsets you too much 💚 We'll probably enjoy whatever content you're proud enough to create and upload!!✨

[@vicky__p]

LOVING the "are we the baddies?" intercut... I remember the awful article - great vid!

[@ruplayinggame3080]

I love your videos, I chuckle a lot and also get kinda angry. Thanks for them. #CiswiththeT

[@catmungandr]

Ahh, another reason for me not to pay for a TV license

[@justjuliejam]

Ahh I've been looking for a video like this for ages, thank you!!

[@LindaDanvers]

Riley's point has been extensively strawmanned. She never said that people should date anyone they are not attracted to. She made it very clear that this was not was she meant to convey. She merely asked people who do not want to date transwomen to be willing to examine their assumptions. Riley got a lot of hate because Blair White among others strawmanned her and sent a lot of harassment her way. I have heard plenty of "minority X says you should date them or else be a bigot" stories over the years. Some men of colour supposedly saying that to white women, gay men supposedly saying that to straight men, straight cis men saying to lesbians that they identify as lesbians etc No serious news outlet dedicated an article to these stories because every group has their pushy jerks and predators and most of these stories are hearsay. That is not news. Of all these groups it is predominately cis hetero men and who violently retaliate against people who reject them. Then there are both cis het men and cis het women who retaliate violently against (potential) lovers who threaten their straight reputation. Granted cis het women will often use men to do their dirty work when it comes to retaliating against people who threaten their reputation whether they be men of colour or LGBTQ. Like cis men they can even punish someone who did not make any advances at all but whom they made a move on not realising the person either belongs to the "wrong" ethnicity or is not cis hence the threat to their reputation.

[@Luke-fu5co]

See its this kinda bs which is why i dont pay my tv licence 🤣🤷‍♂️

[@markjones7138]

Sorry I clicked dislike by mistake and it said "feedback shared with creator" so.... Dear Creator, I do *not* dislike the video.👯

[@JBX07]

In all fairness I feel journalism hasn't been good for a very long time.

[@jaqm7343]

More like BBSus, amiright 😉

[@raewynshaw462]

if ur a bi or lesbian woman and you wouldn't date hunter schafer i simply don't trust you

[@ollieno971]

TRUE

[@eldritchexploited5462]

I had to look her up and wow, she is really pretty

[@pablobratcat]

I'm glad you addressed this. I saw the article on BBC News and I was sickened.

[@JohnMiller-my2jb]

Yes, this article is poorly written and unbalanced. If you're in the UK, please send feedback on the article to BBC, hopefully we can get it removed or at least corrected in some way.

[@basedbattledroid3507]

I didn't think it was possible to love and respect Russell T. Davies even more than I already did but here we are.

[@satrian]

I pressed like but I'm already subscribed... OMG what do I do????

[@jamkwasowski5207]

Patreon, baby. Join us.

[@satrian]

@@jamkwasowski5207 even though I'm from Argentina and our economy is... well, complicated, I'm seriously considering it.

[@jamkwasowski5207]

Def don't commit to anything you can't manage ❤️ But there are worse ways to spend £2/month!

[@satrian]

@@jamkwasowski5207 one can always give up a pint a month. ;)

[@Ro41cG]

@@satrian share too👍