1979: Does ENGLISH FOOTBALL need INVESTMENT? | Brass Tacks | Classic BBC Sport | BBC Archive

Eric Robson investigates the state of English football. On the pitch, things seem to be going well, with English clubs like Liverpool and Nottingham Forest dominating in Europe. Off the pitch, however, things are very different. Many English football grounds - including Wembley Stadium - are in a dire state, clubs like Chelsea and Fulham are in financial turmoil, and with football hooliganism rife many lifelong fans are now choosing to stay away on match days. As player wages and transfer fees rise dramatically, and with the spectre of the nascent US soccer league - with its seemingly limitless resources - looming on the horizon, is now the time for a rethink on how football is funded?
Nottingham Forest manager Brian Clough, Southampton boss Lawrie McMenemy and Watford chairman Elton John outline where they think English football is headed, and what steps need to be taken.
This clip is from Brass Tacks, originally broadcast 15 May 1979.
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[@Clockendmo]

How right he was, Brian Clough. A lot of football clubs have lost their identity now due to massive firms and non-football related ownerships.

[@jaredbowhay-pringle1460]

Have they really, though? Brian Clough had more than his fair share of issues with owners and chairmen back in the "good old days" who he accused of not understanding the sport. Only difference now is English football in particular is a global product and therefore attracts foreign investment

[@Clockendmo]

@@jaredbowhay-pringle1460 Everything you said is true, however due to this mass investment by American owners, clubs have lost their identity. Take Man UTD as a prime example.

[@jaredbowhay-pringle1460]

@@Clockendmo Man Utd haven't lost their identity, unless their only identity was that of being a decent football team. Liverpool also seem to be doing OK under American ownership. As a Newcastle fan, I can tell you it's not always rosy under English ownership, but again it has very little to do with the identity of the club.

[@untexan]

@@Clockendmo Yes, ignore the numerous clubs run by corrupt oligarchs and nation states laundering blood money and blame it all on “American owners”

[@BOZ_11]

@@jaredbowhay-pringle1460 man utd was owned by men interested in football. the glazer family use man utd's revenue to pay off the debt THEY INCURRED buying the club. man utd essentially paid for the glazers to own it

[@ChubbyChecker182]

Very impressed with Brian and Lawrie and Elton here, 20 years ahead of their times

[@NazriB]

Lies again? Contract Investment Private Jet

[@Spagbolmofo]

100%, this was very interesting to watch for anyone and as a leicester fan who never knew brian clough until a few years ago

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

The problem is it went too far. Often it's not about the football anymore, it's about the amenities and arguing on social media about who is the goat.

[@heythisisminenotyours]

Arguing on social media is just the new pub debate

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

@@heythisisminenotyours I agree to an extent, but in the pub people at the end say, well we'll have to agree to disagree, another pint? Whereas online its swearing, threats, racism, shaming, stuff that some of these people would never say face to face. Ultras and Hooligans may, but the average guy who works 9 to 5 in an office during the week wouldn't dare say it if it wasn't online. That's the difference i think. Question, United are losing 4 nil to Brentford. Do we say that United are just resigned to the wilderness now like other former big clubs have been.

[@heythisisminenotyours]

@@JohnSmith-rw2yn if you think all pub debates ended in a handshake that's being particularly naive

[@JohnSmith-rw2yn]

@@heythisisminenotyours would you honestly walk up to someone in a pub and racially abuse someone who say something about there family, you wouldn't. and I said I agreed to an extent. Real people shake hands and have a civil debate, now I never said all happen like that, I have been to the pub to the match for many seasons as a season ticket holder, yes it can get heated but compared to online it's nothing.

[@jamesgreen8573]

@@heythisisminenotyours that ends in abuse

[@ipuya]

Love these old archives to remind us of how things were not so long ago

[@johns8377]

better

[@badgerboy4448]

@@johns8377 for the working class white man

[@kiriakoz]

@@badgerboy4448 now the working class are getting porked royally.

[@bruhman5722]

@@kiriakoz by themselves by being on the dole

[@kiriakoz]

@@bruhman5722 nah, by companies which insist on making profit upon profit every year, no matter the financial climate.

[@wanwandokko]

Nottingham Forest are an absolute paradox in English football. Dragged itself into the modern era, ran by a committee way up until the 80s when even 4th division teams were becoming ltd companies. Yet, 1st club to invest 1 million, and now spent an enormous amount to stay in the prem. Feel for Forest, fundamentally a traditional club dragged into the new world. Cloughie had such hindsight.

[@moneymanifestation9505]

The money doesn't add up mate that's why they can't keep their heads above water 😂charging £1 to get in and 27k max capacity 😂

[@cancorder1]

The funniest thing is considering the oblivious attitude Clough had toward Chelsea Just goes to show where CFCs size/history was back in those days

[@DemonetisedZone]

surely you mean foresight?

[@Snookbone]

The very first sentence of the video contains the word "soccer". It's incredible how quickly we've forgotten that it was common in British parlance, and now we pathetically argue with other countries about what stuff should be called.

[@AH-be6bu]

The word only ever seemed to come out of the mouths of well-spoken journalists and broadcasters in those days. There’s a very good interview between Brian Clough and David Frost where the former largely sticks to ‘football’ while Frost often uses ‘soccer’. I think it’s more of a class divide thing than anything else.

[@jonnysupreme]

Yeah, most presenters had a high class accent back then. There were only 3 channels remember?

[@TheGiantKillers]

@@AH-be6bu It's a little more nuanced than that. Today's sports journalists wouldn't say Rugby, because it could refer to one of two sports, League or Union so they add the suffix to the two sports. The players of both sports when being interviewed will simply say Rugby. It was the same up into the 1970s with Football. It could mean Soccer or Rugby League, so the press would use those terms while those within both sports would simply say Football. The term Football to describe Rugby League began falling out of favour as early as the 1950s but there was still a generation of aging pre 50s fans who knew Rugby League as Football. By the 1970s the media started replacing Soccer with Football. Those born since 1980 of course don't realise how those of us born before them read Soccer magazines. Ahh but what about the Racing and Football outlook? I hear you cry. Well, if you pick up a copy of that annual before 1970 you'll see that the Football they refer to is Association Football and Rugby Football. They dropped Rugby coverage from the annual in the 70s.

[@Agtsmirnoff]

@@AH-be6bu Elton John called it soccer in this very video

[@alanfox691]

@@AH-be6bu I would agree that it is about class devide if you look at the history of the world Soccer it was sued early on buy the upper classes will the working class used the term football. Personally I use the term Football the world Soccer seems unnatural to me.

[@CommandoRick]

So eerie to see those murder pits they used to call stands. Iron bars in front, cages at the top and only one tiny entrance in or out. Small miracle that there weren’t more tragedies involving terraces.

[@doctor_gibbo1392]

Yeah the decade following these interviews saw the worst disasters, one of the main culprits being poorly designed dilapidated old grounds with very little maintenance and as you say no way out.

[@akoot]

@@benarcher7411 Bootlicker x

[@SF-br8bu]

@@benarcher7411 so edgy, what a guy!

[@benarcher7411]

You 2 are pair of precious little princesses aren’t getting all upset by a strangers opinion on social media it sounds like you might not be quite grown up enough to be on here anyway I’m only going off hysel and hillsbourgh by joe they got some form them scousers

[@akoot]

@@benarcher7411 well done falling for the propaganda, very impressionable aren't you? X

[@shanekelley7682]

Brian Clough is greatly missed by the majority.

[@shakespearo]

And by the minority.

[@ianwhitehead691]

Brian Clough the greatest manager England never had. R.I.P BRIAN

[@joeypeawood4656]

“Now those double doors I showed you lead directly into….that room” Great tour guide 👏

[@JamieParkins]

He also appears to call his guests idiots after asking them to wave

[@marcdewolf7334]

Bit of a prophecy from cloughie, one day everyone will be sitting at football. I Could listen to cloughie all day long. Very good piece of journalism, a lot of sense spoken by the participants. Really hits home when you see the old grounds and how long fans put up with those archaic facilities. Incredible when you see Forests ground and you realise they were European champions at the time.

[@geniejack9709]

Use to be a cracking atmosphere standing at football they need to bring it back to a degree

[@frasierfreak92]

Yet it’s a pity he parroted the lies by The Sun about what happened at Hillsborough. He knew it was bollocks but because he wrote for them and was mates with the cops, he pushed the lies. It was only after The Sun sacked him and he was ran out of Liverpool on his book tour that he apologised and started hating Murdoch.

[@louiem2]

Elton John and Brian Clough both hitting the nail on the head here with their progressive comments

[@himthatis6698]

Not to mention Lawrie getting annoyed about having to pay for beer. Outrageous. Don't know why but that bit made me laugh, maybe it was the indignity of the actual price.

[@giansideros]

Brian Clough was a socialist, dunno about Elton John though.

[@mm6461]

Football never has or ever will take off in America

[@IsaiahDanielJohnson]

@@mm6461 why not

[@mm6461]

@@IsaiahDanielJohnson cause Americans find it boring!

[@haydnevans2978]

Clough really did know his stuff! What a guy!

[@SHRWM]

Genius. Way ahead of his time.

[@Darwinion]

Not really. He said eventually we'd all want to sit down. That's one of the reasons I stopped going! Atmosphere is lost through that bollocks.

[@BOZ_11]

@@Darwinion yea but families can go now rather than a bunch of yobs who like having a punch up

[@DeezN1892]

@@Darwinion There's still great atmosphere's in a lot of grounds

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

@@BOZ_11 families could always go. If you were savvy about your club and the area you'd know the points to avoid.

[@jerseydevs2000]

As a Yank, this vid is a good supplement to the documentary film "Once in a Lifetime" about the New York Cosmos. The interviewer, Elton John and Brian Clough are addressing the crazy money Steve Ross and Warner were throwing around to bring footballing stars to New York to the detriment of the rest of the NASL. The league would collapse in a few years' time. It's also why MLS operates under far different financial rules.

[@jossym]

As with most things in life, the key is balance. Of course English football needed to change and bring in massive investment due to the horrendous state it was in around the time this was filmed, anyone who actually went to the stadiums during this era will remember how dreadful they were in terms of facilities etc (even if they did produce an atmosphere lacking in today's game). But few can argue that the money which has come in to the game now has gone way too far, resulting in it being detrimental to the competitiveness of the league. We now have the situation where 6 clubs (soon to be 7 once Newcastle join the group) will never be relegated again. We all laugh at Man Utd's downfall in recent years but in reality a 'dreadful' season for them would be to finish 7th or 8th - a position(s) that 14 other clubs would bite your hand off for. Clubs that get promoted now either go straight back down or they do well to get a brief extended stay in the top flight (Stoke, West Brom, Middlesborough etc) before gravity finally catches up with them and they return to the Championship. Even the cup competitions rarely have a winner outside of this elite group (Leicester being the only exception I can think of right now). So it seems the price we really paid for modern facilities (not withstanding the huge hit to your bank account for tickets) and bringing the game up to speed with other countries (surpassing even) was the complete loss of hope that our local team could ever dare to dream of competing at the top end of the division for any more than a one-off miracle season.

[@natmanprime4295]

Good comment

[@suburbia2050]

The problem anywhere are shareholders

[@frasierfreak92]

Unfortunately, it was the only way to save things. English Football was being left behind by Serie A and France, and the Bundesliga, who could all offer better facilities, weather and European football. So whilst we were banned from Europe we largely used that time to reorganise things and kickstart the Premier League. It professionalised things and now it’s the destination for top players. It’s not perfect but it was always going to be the case that money would mean things became more sanitised.

[@SigHawk04]

Interesting to hear Sir Elton talk about how advanced US stadiums were over the UK. Today you wouldn't think of places like Veterans Stadium (Philadelphia) or Shea Stadium (New York) as state-of-the-art.

[@ajs41]

Good point.

[@mark4lev]

You cannot believe how basic things were in the 70’s

[@Dad_Life_Marine_Vet]

you need to look how bad things were in the 70's and 80's and even early 90's in regards to safety standards etc. The Bradford City fire, Hillsborough disaster being 2 examples.

[@redmustangredmustang]

A big reason was safety code. They had to either be metal bleachers or all seaters. That's just how it was done over there. The modern NFL stadiums really started with the Dallas Cowboys Texas Stadium in 1971 with all those box seats. The crazy thing is the artificial turf or astro turf the NFL used for many years. Those things were hard as hell and like playing concrete.

[@evilhobbit666]

I can only just remember these days, watching players covered from head to toe in mud, no quick passes they had to slug out the game back then, im glad football has changed to todays standards

[@BOZ_11]

the pitches are better but the players are emasculated nancy boys who hug and kiss their opponents in the tunnel.😘

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

You've got to still be raging about Cloughie though eh? 😉

[@bruhman5722]

@@BOZ_11 thats society

[@BOZ_11]

@@bruhman5722 society isn't nicer, it's just weaker. Conversely they've made the righteous weaker too

[@bruhman5722]

@@BOZ_11 never said it was nicer, just that society today is making the nancy boys

[@bully3628]

Wow, Clough absolutely hit the nail on the head when he said players would want to finish their careers in America. Many European stars (Beckham, Gerard, Pirlo, Rooney, Bale, Zlatan, etc.) have used MLS as a retirement league, or an American vacation before they retire.

[@SF-br8bu]

Yeah but I think he was implying that the USA would have enough money to pay young players in their prime at some point. That's still not really happened. And now that we have clubs owned by middle East states, there's no need for players to leave, instead we have the opposite: players coming from all over the world to pay here.

[@xSoccerxCorex]

@@SF-br8bu "Yeah but I think he was implying that the USA would have enough money to pay young players in their prime at some point. That's still not really happened." it's kinda has. MLS has been targeting more central and south american talent. where do you think newcastle got Miguel Almirón from? MLS, whose club he played for in atlanta got him out of argentina. so the americans ARE spending the money on young talent, just not where people expect them to.

[@ShozzleMeNoz]

That happened back then too. He wasn't predicting something. It was already happening.

[@hi-ls6lt]

Did Pele and Beckenbaur not exist then? They both ended their careers in the US

[@alanfox691]

Why should a player not do so if offered the opportunity personally if I was in that situation as a player I would jump at the opportunity why not if you are coming to the end of your career anyway. Personally think Beckham went to early in his career to The M.L.S. as his lone moves to P.S.G & Milan to me proved. But it benefited him post football & no player can play forever.

[@BillyBronco73]

This was broadcast on May 15th, 1979. Four years after Clough took over Nottingham Forest in the bottom half of the 2nd division. That month, Forest won the European cup. An incredible transformation by a great managerial team, Brian Clough & Peter Taylor.

[@Kate31415]

The mentions of fan safety and comfort, and the old stadiums which hadn't been improved for years, send a terrible shiver up the spine given it was 10 years before Hillsborough.

[@dcanmore]

God, you could listen to these legends talk about football all day, fascinating stuff.

[@scsutton1]

The transformation of football between the 1970's and today has been remarkable, but in a way, it has also transpired to be the ultimate case of 'Be careful what you wish for'.

[@GaryJohnWalker1]

A gem. And people talking straight and not edging too much to fit an image. Plus a time when football still had real managers

[@andysouth6624]

Expected some home truths from Cloughie, but was also impressed with what Elton John had to say

[@MartinParnham]

Say what you like about Elton John but he loved his football. By all accounts, he wasn't just one of these celebrities who took over a club as a status thing or out of boredom etc he was already a massive Watford fan and cared deeply about the club.

[@user-dq6se6er8j]

Loved? He’s still alive…

[@MartinParnham]

@@user-dq6se6er8j I meant when he was chairman.

[@LordSeth-hf8ew]

for a second i just thought it was the same name but thats the famous singer elton?

[@The90slim90]

@@LordSeth-hf8ew It sure is!

[@louispks]

I used to think if it weren't for the Bradford and Hillsborough disasters nothing would have changed regarding grounds and facilities.

[@joshooahh]

They would have changed regardless just not as quickly

[@indiekiddrugpatrol3117]

@@joshooahh maybe for the biggest few clubs but it's not hard to imagine clubs like Derby and Middlesbrough staying the baseball ground and ayresome if they weren't forced to leave through legislation

[@bhvillaman4401]

You never truly learn something until something goes wrong. Trial and error is how humans learn.

[@robertbolder5319]

Saw £1 admission for a Forest game, that is £5.18 in todays money. Bet cheapest tickets at Forest are £40 for a game.

[@MarlboroughBlenheim1]

For that £40 you're getting a product and experience that is light years ahead of what you would have got in 1979. It's family friendly, clean, you're treated like humans (unless you behave like an animal) and the quality of football is higher by some degree. Many of the players who played in the old first division wouldn't be good enough to play in the premier league now and the influx of foreign players would be the most noticeable. Robson started it at Ipswich with murhen and thyssen in the early 80s.

[@robertbolder5319]

@@MarlboroughBlenheim1 Most of players now would find football in 1979 too physical for them. Probably bit of an age thing but find football now a lot less interesting. The money has made it feel less like person on the streets sport.

[@pjoseph5950]

@MarlboroughBlenheim1 Talking out your arse!

[@donalobrien9422]

@@MarlboroughBlenheim1well in 1979 you would have been watching European and league champions on a ridiculous unbeaten run. Light years ahead eh?

[@MarlboroughBlenheim1]

@@donalobrien9422 the name was very different - more physical, back pass rule, players less fit, a lot less focus on nutrition etc (players would have a beer after a game) and tactfully a lot more Linear - basically everyone played 4-4-2.

[@portcullis5622]

The phrase "Be careful what you wish for" springs to mind.😪

[@marksparkes1]

Not a big fan of football, but I love these old documentaries and How accurate they were in predicting the future.

[@AH-be6bu]

Cloughie’s comments on sponsors and businesses taking over clubs was a grim portent of things to come.

[@phillipecook3227]

Fascinating to watch with the benefit of 43 years perfect hindsight. Clough was slightly off with his prediction of how football would take off in the USA but he and Elton could see the need for change (it's good to be reminded just how much at the time of this interview Forest were a force to be reckoned with in English and European football). Elton was spot on: whether you liked it or not sponsorship was essential because the "facilities" for fans were garbage but we all know it was to be almost another 15 years before Premier League sponsorship was to arrive fully formed.

[@Gregorskorino]

Great comment. He was slightly off but only in the sense that he felt that football would have to cross the Atlantic to experience their mentality and way of doing things. Instead the opposite happened, the mentality came to them.

[@kevinprior3549]

Took about 10 to 15 years for people in football to sort out the stadiums. And in the meantime there was the Bradford fire in 1985 and the Hillsborough Disaster in 1989.

[@MayhemMilIer]

shut up kevin

[@testcase4817]

Agreed, also the Hillsborough seemed to force the issue, possibly without that tragedy the changes to stadia might have happened but would've been slower coming.

[@MayhemMilIer]

@@testcase4817 are you a girl

[@testcase4817]

@@MayhemMilIer I'm your mom........

[@andrewkirkland1452]

If you think you want to go back to that you weren't there. The stadiums were literal death traps. If the investment didnt happen football would still be a minor little sport watched by only the hardcore fans.

[@phillipecook3227]

You are spot on. " Facilities" which you wouldn't store sacks in and most stadiums quite literally death traps also.

[@michaelconroy5668]

This is brilliant, can really start to see the ideas of how football is now percolating away in the minds of the past.

[@philipsimpson9597]

Cloughie, years ahead of his time, back in 1979

[@IanDavis-fs8dd]

That's why the old crusties at the FA were frightened to death of him.

[@elwynpeters499]

incredible foresight from Clough and Elton

[@tonylawlor8833]

He was a real visionary where football was concerned.

[@MyFoodeater]

The thing that surprised me the most about this is Elton John’s appearance

[@ArmyofLove]

Lots to think about. It's good clough was honest about what he thought football was about, loyalty to earning money. Ever since, the fan experience and comfort has improved but it wasn't money that forced the change, it was a disaster unfortunately.

[@Samouraii]

Funny how influential people from the North East have been on English football yet the teams up there have struggled due to the southern clubs having more money and investment

[@blackniall8509]

What like Man United Man City Liverpool Everton? Newcastle Sunderland even Middlesbrough have had more investment then Pompey Southampton for example

[@Samouraii]

@@blackniall8509 Southern is an umbrella term used up here to mean London and the South East tbh. I know the rest of the South has similar lack of investment and can get overlooked when looking at deprived areas. My main gripe is that in general the North East gets ignored and has a lot less investment than the likes of Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds etc.

[@analcommando1124]

How good are teams in the south that arent in London? Unless you think Brighton, Southampton or Bournemouth having a chance of winning a premier league title soon ...

[@Samouraii]

@@analcommando1124 was more talking about the likes of Brian Clough, Bobby Robson and Don Revie. In terms of footballers the impact hasn't been as significant in recent years.

[@johnbuffaloiam9741]

@@Samouraii leicester won the premier league with an italian

[@weekendwarriorprospecting817]

Brian Clough ❤ changed the entire game ⚽️🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[@CricketEngland]

It all gone potty in my view what with crazy wages top players gets these days, stupid transfer fees in the 10’s of millions and the ridiculous ticket prices, when the average household now in 2022 has trouble to pay rising fuel costs. It no longer about the football and all about how much money top football clubs directors and it’s players can make.

[@TheGiantKillers]

Of course the irony here is your saying exactly what Football fans were saying 120 years ago and will still be saying in 120 years time.

[@CricketEngland]

@@TheGiantKillers because it’s true and they will keep saying it because nothing will even get done to change it

[@Kurgan618]

How articulate Elton John was.

[@kamandi1362]

And quite sane. I wonder what happened?

[@mattbarbarich3295]

The "investment"went so far to the point now where most players and managers are foreign and most clubs are owned by foreign companies or individuals. Beautiful amenities but they sold their souls.

[@nbarrett100]

Thank you for uploading this

[@archiet2205]

Brian clough is the greatest manager of all time. Period. Ofc u cud argue greats like sir Alex and wenger etc but clough is in a league of his own in my opinion. A true revolutionary in the way he approached management. It was his management and way with people that led to his success. He was the master of knowing what to say, when to say and who to say it to. Take John Robertson and Martin O’Neill in that Forest squad. They were nothing players before clough. And as we all now know it was clough that turned them into real greats of the game. He was brilliant in every regard and is a complete legend shown in this video with him hitting the nail on the head with regards to funding etc.

[@philthornton1382]

Clough is one of the best, but I’d still take Bob Paisley over him

[@martinpawley647]

What needs is more passion in the game, players who are committed to playing the beautiful game as it should be played. In other words giving it all they have got over ninty minutes.

[@JackSmith-gv5yw]

Cloughy knew his stuff, shame he didn't manage England.

[@alanfox691]

Even as a Scotsman I have to agree with that Goughy the greatest Manger England never had. For me Cloughy is still right up there in the top three mangers of all time.

[@scsutton1]

Two words as to why Brian Clough didn't manage England: Harold Thompson.

[@robertrammullen6935]

BRILLIANT MANAGER BRILLIANT GUY sadly miss him even though I am a Arsenal fan I am or was a fan of Brian

[@steve-marsh]

Wow Cloughie - so spot on. Way ahead of his time.

[@mm6461]

Cloughie wrong about football taking off in America. Never has, never will

[@jtaco4101]

@@mm6461 it's grown in popularity massively in the states. If number of Hispanic migrants keeps up that will only increase.

[@markapostolou75]

Brian Clough, ahead of his time in so many ways.

[@CME1994]

What a cracking old bit of film!

[@aitchjay6854]

Thank god we've progressed from the dark ages of football where it is now safe to go to top tier games safely with you kids or girlfriend. Wasn't like that in the 80s when I 1st started to go. It was like taking your life in your own hands every other Saturday.

[@alanfox691]

Old Firm games are still like that up here takeing your life in your hands lol.

[@DimitriosSarakatsianos-ho1zj]

Hello, what many people don't know is that the term soccer actually originated in England in the late 19th century to distinguish it from rugby-football sport. Soccer was then called association football and the term soccer was used as an abbreviation for association. A little later, it was also adopted in the USA. Many young Brits say and prefer football today because after more than 125 years they no longer know the origin of the term and see soccer as an American devaluation of their sport. This was probably not the case in 1979.

[@markherzog9484]

Brilliant film, some amazing visionaries….. I’m 68 and saw the ‘piss against a ceramic wall in the open’ grounds and always asked would anyone go to a cinema and watch a 100minute film, standing and pissing outdoors? Fantastic time watch piece….bravo…..

[@borderlands6606]

Sadly, free market economics have not been to the benefit of fans, although they have certainly lined the pockets of players, agents, broadcasters and advertisers. £1 in 1979 was £4.34 in 2021. Imagine getting into a premier league fixture for that price, even if you could roll up at a turnstile with cash? Brian Clough may have been correct in saying the spectacle was too cheap, but the game is unrecognisable from the time when teams contained locally born players, never mind ones of national origin.

[@TheLuigi69]

👏🏻👏🏻

[@l_j_c_5397]

Too true

[@davidtomlinson6138]

Yep

[@1346crecy]

You're right on cost to the supporters which could easily be lower. However, we now have the best league in the world ,with the best stadiums. I remember going to games in the 70's with piss rolling down the terraces, violence on an industrial scale inside the grounds and the best you could get drink wise was Bovril or tea. We were packed like sardines and a lot of the players looked like they should be playing darts not football. With regard to foreigners in our football in the 70's and 80's we didn't qualify for two World cups in the 70's and have done a lot better since the advent of the Premiership. Is what we have perfect, of course not, but looking back I wouldn't have dreamed of taking children or a girlfriend or wife to football back then. Just saying.

[@gooner73clark88]

@@1346crecy you make some good points but I disagree on the England thing. Qualifying for the WC was a lot harder in the 70s because there weren’t many places available. England are not better now than they were then and the Premiership has not been beneficial. There are too many overseas players (and managers) here now in my opinion and clubs have lost their local identities. Things have become too polished and commercialised as well. Somewhere in between what we have now and what we saw in this 1979 video would have been better.

[@louisep4805]

I miss Cloughy RIP 🙏

[@starguy321]

Whats interesting is that club ownership by large corporations, described by Clough, can go either way. Company ownership in Germany of VfL Wolfsburg and Bayer Leverkusen works well, because German companies have a far less antagonistic relationship with their workers. It made sense German companies set up clubs for workers because they set up quite a lot for them. British clubs were set up by employees, not employers, due to the more antagonistic and self-reliant culture of British workers. British companies historically, as a result, would not own the clubs for the fans or workers but themselves. It’s a good reminder football is rooted in the working class

[@Jim90117]

1:19 That made me laugh so much. I guess Chelsea have a history of Todd Boehly types lol

[@mandyfox9376]

1979 the year I born £ 1 to get into to Nottingham Forest how times have changed 💯

[@xrayfish2020]

How things have changed and all in my lifetime, premier league 30 years on 👍

[@sidsa9]

Been a season ticket holder at The Bridge for 8 years. Always heard stories bout the old days but this pictures and testomies really bring it home....

[@badgerboy4448]

Turf moor is still like this now

[@dianefirth8800]

Burnley has the ghastliest food in the northern hemisphere and the foulest smelling kharzis

[@tompoynton]

@@dianefirth8800 BNP hellhole

[@lucaschapman2188]

Two new stands and two old school. Better than Luton and QPR .

[@Jumpmaster337]

At 3:18 does the tour guide call his group “idiots” or am I hearing incorrectly?

[@louiem2]

🤣

[@jamiewulfyr4607]

Lolol!! He definitely called 'em "idiots" whilst he was making 'em "wave to the Queen"! 😂👌

[@murpho999]

Yes, but clearly he was joking.

[@daviebananas1735]

It’s so fascinating that these people KNEW that more money was needed to support football, but were also wary of how much the money men could grow to influence the direction of football.

[@pietropes1322]

Back then not enough investment and lack of safety etc but now it's gone too far, too much money in football these days tbh...

[@irrgignot5406]

Elton John-“imagine paying one million pounds for a player” 40 years later and routinely over 100 million!

[@gui18bif]

The passion was there, the money was not. Now, the money is here.

[@MarcoNegrisEye]

Cloughie "I think that eventually we'll all want to sit down at football matches". And in recent times we all want to stand back up. I know I don't sit down at the football and haven't done for years. Most around me don't neither. The seats are seen as a hindrance.

[@ewanmacfarlane9195]

Saftey needed improving no doubt but people are coming round now to the idea that compulsory all seating and identical plastic stadiums killed the soul and the atmosphere of football matches...

[@eclectica1]

Better that be killed than actual people, right? You seem bitter.

[@lucaschapman2188]

Vicarage road might be on the Small side circa 22000 but modern and can expand to 26000 easily maybe circa 29000 . At the moment perfectly ok for a mid table championship side .

[@Revelian1982]

Very prophetic.

[@wendalboy]

Clough and elton ahead of their times but clough even saw the problems coming too

[@andymacfaul2852]

A fascinating piece.

[@AzulValium]

This is pure gold

[@CricketEngland]

Brian Clough is probably the greatest manger never to manage England

[@tomico9154]

Didn't know Sir Alex managed England.

[@Snookbone]

@@tomico9154 Fergie never did anything on par with winning Europe with Forest.

[@jaredbowhay-pringle1460]

@@Snookbone I'd argue winning the modern format Champions League is a far greater achievement than winning the old European Cup, when a lucky draw could potentially see you make it all the way to the final in three games without encountering any really notable opposition.

[@milotobin-storer3943]

​@@jaredbowhay-pringle1460 you don't get lucky back to back years though

[@tomico9154]

@@Snookbone He won a European trophy with Aberdeen beating Real in the final, I'd call that on par.

[@CricketEngland]

It was the horrible Bradford City stadium fire which occurred during a Football League Third Division match between Bradford City and Lincoln City on Saturday, 11 May 1985 at the Valley Parade stadium in Bradford, West Yorkshire, England, killing 56 spectators and injuring at least 265, that forced change in football stadiums for the better The stadium was known for its antiquated design and facilities, which included the wooden roof of the main stand. Previous warnings had also been given about a major build-up of litter in the cavity below the seats in the stand. The stand had been officially condemned and was due to be replaced with a steel structure after the season ended. The disaster led to rigid new safety standards in UK stadiums, including the banning of new wooden grandstands and was also a catalyst for the substantial redevelopment and modernisation of many British football grounds within the following thirty years.

[@SpiritmanProductions]

Sad that it takes a disaster, rather than foresight and common sense, for people to act.

[@scsutton1]

@@SpiritmanProductions Plus ça change, mon ami. Plus ça change.

[@GaryWaldrom]

There was a fire at Forests Ground in 1968, fortunately, it didn't cost lives even though there were 31,000 people in the stadium that day, but 11 years before this documentary, it should have served as a warning kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6mnmZSjhLBnhZY

[@OlafProt]

Cloughie knew the score.

[@gordon1545]

In 1979 everyone could afford to go and watch their team every fortnight. You could do it on the lowest wage, on unemployment benefit, on incapacity benefit. You could take your kids too. Now, that entire demographic has been completely priced out, and these were the people who created the first century of football history. It's so sad that English football couldn't find a middle ground like Germany, with modern stadiums but affordable prices.

[@Bitterman97]

Tis funny that's how Elton put it too IN BLOODY 79 now almost everybody knows that Bundesliga did it the right way with 51 percent policy. The football league went full America though and lost it's identity but it is dominant over the whole world. Prem became the American league that Cloughy was afraid of.

[@alanfox691]

@@Bitterman97 In Germany there is apparently talk of the 50+1 rule being changed slightly so more investment can happen as the Bundesliga is being dominated so much now buy Bayern Munich. I came across a video of it yesterday on You Tube from 4vweeks ago.

[@joemorgan636]

Wow wow how English football changed now

[@thomasoates2112]

Does the tour guide at Wembley get everyone to wave to the Queen and then call them all idiots for doing so?

[@clinteldorado]

I thought I heard him say that! What a prick.

[@cryptocsguy9282]

@Thomas Oates Yes because if you know Wembley then you know that the Prime minster of India is more important than the queen 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@cosmicbaggy9637]

7:30 - joel glazer enters the chat.

[@user-yf4gx9lw6c]

Interesting how much the word Soccor is used. That’s a phrase that’s been shunned by most modern English fans.

[@jrothweldo7]

Brilliant have you got the full documentary?

[@rizzledizzle9801]

I always thought seating was brought in due to hillsborough, never knew it happened this early.

[@TheGiantKillers]

Jimmy Hill made moves to make Coventry City's Highfield Road all seater in 1967. He was lambasted for it. Alas people with the vision to see the future often get torn apart by those who fear change. In forty years the European Superleague will be the biggest thing in Football. Fans will adore it as they currently do the Premier League. The idea people once argued against it will baffle them. But any talk of the new World Super League om 2070 will be met with wholesale derision as a terrible idea. Just as they did when offered a European cup In the 1950s. Or indeed 1888 when Aston Villa suggested a fixity of fixtures called the Football League. Who wanted to see Villa travel all the way up to Merseyside to play Everton when they could stay in Aston and play Aston Unity in the Birmingham Senior cup instead? That's what the fans really wanted.

[@wanwandokko]

Seating was very a luxury. When I watched Forest back in the 70s 80s we all presumed that anyone paying for a seat had wealth. Hillsborough ensured legislation

[@scowy1978]

On the America thing, there's time yet. Youth participation in soccer is now at an all time high. U.S. parents are also pushing their kids away from American Football due to the prevelance of brain injuries in the sport.

[@TheTennesseeFistMachine]

It will never happen, you can't fabricate a culture that's ingrained in people for decades over several continents

[@AntGeezer]

That was as close to crystal ball prediction as you’re likely to get.

[@tammurray8576]

Yet in the same year Clough broke the transfer record paying 1 million for Trevor Francis

[@philthornton1382]

Because he wanted to put the best side he could put for the customers/fans

[@shutup2751]

chilling to think that this was still another 10 years before hillsborough disaster

[@steven2212]

Now, because of men like these, the PL is the greatest League in the world. Thanks gents.

[@JanSanono]

Absolutely ahead of their time.

[@kinnbenet]

Somehow I feel so sad watching a TV interview from the times I haven't lived at.

[@199019852007]

7:40 Todd Bolehy

[@jamalcolorado4260]

Notice how Elton John said “soccer”

[@kevindoran9389]

It was common to call it soccer at that time in England.

[@DavidThomas-fb8bq]

Brian clough may have come across as 'arrogant ', or 'big - headed ,but this wasn't the case at all.

[@ValeriaZaragoza692]

Into what development? Did the British just say “soccer”!!!??? Well I never! 😧

[@jasonking6892]

The Golden Era..happy days 🇬🇧👍

[@Seminal_Ideas]

Sounds like Glyn Worsnip narrating. I miss his presentation. Entertaining and engaging.

[@steveluckhurst2350]

Eric Robson.

[@nicknewman7848]

"It's about time we thought about more comfort for the people that pay our wages.." Camera pans around to a miserable terrace enclosed with railings with a chicken wire roof.

[@pete8492]

Clough was on the money a long time ago.

[@le01jack]

@3.17 does the tour guide call the crowd idiots under his breath? 😂

[@bencarter6702]

Blimey. Those stadiums. Only 40 years ago. Elton was right. Fans pay a lot for nothing much. And the Americans often did purpose built stadiums better at the time. And it was still a Victorian era attitude towards the sport and its fans at the time. Still is, really. Small percentage of aristocratic owners. And the plebs. Also something of the future cash grab drive in cricketers hopping from one Twenty20 team to another...