Be the Bee # 154 | Why People Stop Being Christians (and What We Can Do About It)

[@y2am]

Downloard the workbook for today's episode: mailchi.mp/goarch/bethebee154

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Really excited about this week's episode. I think it's one of our best ones yet!

[@murrayaronson3753]

Yes it is, from the ones I've seen.

[@greenhaven-podcast]

Agree! This one is just fantastic! Such a good analogy and I'm sending it to friends and family now!

[@emiliosantoniou]

Well done Steven! Well done! Every episode is more and more exciting! A fantastic speach- episode! Be more like this!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God! Thank you!

[@57ronald]

Hockey analogies! Way to touch the hearts of your Canadian fans!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Well it is the greatest sport so.... :-)

[@joshua_wherley]

I'm feeling a little odd about this episode after watching my Cleveland Browns get thumped (again) by the Steelers this past weekend. Steve, your excellent commentary in this video reminds me of what Fr. Alexander Schmemann wrote in "For the Life of the World" about how man is a hungry being, but he is hungry for God. If we don't have God in our lives, we fill that vacuum with other interests, never being satisfied. That's where the depth of Orthodoxy can bring things home to a faith in Christ. Thanks for this video!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God! May the Lord fill us with His presence rather than distractions!

[@priest_online]

Hello my friend, so glad to hear The voice of Orthodoxy on youtube.. I also started channel about basics of Christianity, because people really make things very complicated when God made everything for us,as one of us..and made it so simple... All we need is just to Join the Team :) I am priest in Georgian Orthodox Church and again, very pleased with your video, may God bless you.

[@theturtwig50]

I stopped going to the Orthodox Church due the racism and ethnocentrism my father and I faced. People didnt want white Americans being in their church, and therefore, we were irregulars. Eventually I became a Buddhist because I like the community, but eventually I realized I didn't believe in things such as reincarnation or an utopian world. So about a year ago, I went back to Chuch. Sadly, Church is now closed, but I cant wait for it to be open again!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

I'm so sorry you experienced this. That's part of the trouble of the Church being "right on paper." We don't believe in ethnocentrism, and yet our communities may display it. God forgive us! And God bless you for your patience and struggle all these years.

[@theturtwig50]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 Thank you very much. It is sentiment such as this that reminds me there are many wonderful people within the Church.

[@emiliosantoniou]

Absolutely Orthodox church doesn't have any relationship with these kind of things such as racism or ethnicity. But the Orthodox church and real orthodox people do what Our Lord says: Teach all the nations to be my students as well, and teach them what I teach to you, babtize them in the name of the Father, the son and Holy spirit! Never disappoint my lovely kind Rumia, but take the good examples of the true orthodox people! AMEN!

[@fenderplayer2355]

What do you Mean by "White Americans???". Who do you think the majority of people in theGreek Orthodox Church are? We welcome all as we have since the earliest days of Christianity. What do you mean by "White Americans?"This sounds suspicious.

[@theturtwig50]

@@fenderplayer2355 Most Greek Orthodox Churches I have gone through have had a large congregation of Greek Americans, who, sadly, really take an interest in you if you're Greek. My dad and I aren't Russian, Eastern European, or Greek, and because of that, many Orthodox Christian's didnt think we belonged.

[@alenk7333]

Awesome episode and also a very important one. God bless

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Thanks for watching. God bless you, too!

[@fatherjohnholoduekoca4587]

This is a really great presentation! I pray that this finds widespread use!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God! I hope so, too.

[@josephkaros8582]

Awesome episode this week!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God!

[@NysiaP]

This is a great episode! Thanks for the Divine wisdom and your creativity!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God! Pray for us!

[@NysiaP]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 Yes, you and the ministry are in my prayers!

[@baoduong2203]

As a Catholic seminarian, I am grateful to always being able to listen and learn from the Eastern Orthodox. You made a wonderful video that I will probably share with my friends/family.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God. Pray for us!

[@baoduong2203]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 Please pray for us too! I am sadden about the divisions between Orthodoxy and Catholicism. I yearn for the day when we are able to receive the Eucharist together. I admire Orthodoxy and I have many friends who are orthodox. (A friend of mine was just ordained into the priesthood actually. Fr. Niko Tzetzis).

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@baoduong2203 Fr Niko is a good friend of mine. What a small world!

[@njorogedaniel9181]

This has enlightened me greatly. The comparison is the best. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Amen!

[@jasielrodriguez5836]

LOVED this!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God!

[@johnt.klotsos]

Enjoyed seeing Father Anastasios and Father Constantin in your video. Keep up the great work and Be the Bee.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Thank you, pray for us!

[@sarandinaki]

I think this episode is incredibly important given the pandemic, it’s easy to fall out of touch with ones sense of faith, religion, and discipline in reconnecting daily or weekly with Christ. Thanks!

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Glory to God!

[@josephmy9094]

This message is an important one because in this modern era this message teach some valid lessons 👼👼👼

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Thank God!

[@christochrysostomou106]

Nice Work.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Thank you! Glory to God!

[@chagall643]

I used to be on New age .....so ashamed of that .....honestly.... in Greece we love mysticism of orthodoxy and I also have classical education from University ...Still it happened ...I am better now and I love my spiritual father ...he is monk and had me saint paisios, porfyrios and tsaliki ....Actually he was the last spiritual child of Saint Porfyrios....evi from Athens Greece

[@chagall643]

Met saint paisios

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@chagall643 It's ok! You don't need to be ashamed. You've grown since then. God bless you!

[@terrytzaneros8007]

Favoring a so-called "lifestyle" over The Way, proves otherwise. Thanks for the timely video.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

God bless you!

[@jenna2431]

After leaving (Christian for 40 YEARS), it's my opinion that if the church doesn't wake up, it will gradually fade away. It just doesn't take many clicks to learn the pagan origins of the "sacred" holidays in Christianity. A few taps on your phone and you can learn about the Jewish world of the first century that spawned Christianity. It takes a bit more work, but only from the comfort of one's couch to learn the actual history of what happened, for instance, in the writing of the so-called New Testament literature, what actually transpired at Nicaea, how the church at one point banned bibles, ruthlessly murdered a translator and then dug up his ashes and threw him in the river, to look up what happened to Perotine Massey and her newborn baby. It doesn't take a lot to learn how myths and fables work in societies. It doesn't take a lot of searching to see the Anti-Semitism in the founding and history of the church (I'm looking at you, Martin Luther.) It's only a few clicks to figure out that there is a specific reason that "God" and "Jesus Christ" are not mentioned in the United States' founding documents. And it's a wide world now--one where people are not in monolithic communities (unless they choose to live in a silo), where they can learn about other "faiths" and belief systems and worldviews. Not responding to that and maintaining the exclusive nature of "the church" will be DEADLY. Count on it.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Thanks for writing. Sure, information like this is just a few clicks away on the internet. But that doesn't make it true. The holidays don't have pagan roots, for example. The Church never banned Bibles. Though, as I make may through your list, you seem to be getting into the issues Protestants have with Catholics. None of which applies: this is an Orthodox Christian channel.

[@sarandinaki]

I grew up in the Russian church outside of Russia, and have in recent years attended OCA and Antiochian - and due to moving will likely be going to a Greek church soon - have you discussed ethnicity in the church? I have some deeper questions and thoughts that I could go into offline via email or something

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

We're going to talk about this in the next episode. There's also this: Be the Bee #171 | Cradle or Covert kzbin.info/www/bejne/e6rWfWiXocmKnsk

[@dbell92]

What about people who stop being Christians due to careful study of arguments for and against Christianity, even though they stayed fully devoted to Christianity the entire time they were one?

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Good question. Both the data and my own experience suggest this isn't as common as people simply drifting away. Most ex-Christians don't leave because they read Nietsche or something, for example. Most just lose interest. We uncover a lot of these stories in our young adult interview podcast, "We Are Orthodoxy." www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/weareorthodoxy

[@dbell92]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 thanks, I'll give that a listen, sounds very interesting! Btw, I asked that question because it describes how I myself stopped believing in Christianity.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@dbell92 Interesting! I'd love to hear more, if you're willing to share. What arguments did you find most convincing?

[@dbell92]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 oh, well sure i would love to! I would say that some of the biggest arguments that changed my mind were some of these, if I remember correctly: That intercessory prayer (and most prayer in general) is 1. Advocated by the Bible, 2. Impious (following a certain logical argument), and 3. Most probably ineffectual beyond (non-miraculous) psychological and social benefits, despite claims to the contrary. That dualism is an irrational metaphysics. That there is no non-material soul. That there is no afterlife. That it is grossly unlikely that any intelligent being could have existed (or did exist) concurrently with the beginning of (or transcendent to) the universe. And then many arguments that comprise moral objections to specific passages in the Bible, which I no longer remember off hand. Also, I read half of the Confessions of Saint Augustine and, though I loved the book for the beauty of its prose, I found that the man's reasoning was very poor for a host of specific things I no longer remember. Basically, I felt that Augustine really had some of the best arguments in favour of Christianity, and further I found those arguments lacking, and also I found features of the Christian mindset exemplified in Augustine increasingly clearly unhealthy/irrational. I do believe there were many more arguments I considered, and there are many more now, but I think that gives the gist of it. Also, I had a tremendous amount of fun thinking through all these arguments, it was a really great time. Then, before I knew it, I realized I no longer was a believer.

[@dbell92]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 I believe I was also very convinced by arguments such as Russell's teapot, Carl Sagan's "The Dragon in My Garage", and Hume's "Of Miracles". Also, much of the work by Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris.

[@adiyahhhh1435]

Hmm. I used to be Protestant, but it feels like so much tradition is lost. Catholics seem to take things on another level, but orthodox seem like the original church to a point, very balanced. I don’t attend churches (Protestants specifically) because doctrine wavers so much, so much interpretation, relying on our own understanding rather than what has been passed down. That doesn’t seem to be the case. I might start attending an Orthodox Church. I think there is a lot to learn about this, pray for me

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

God bless you! If you live in the United States, this link can help you find a community near you: www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/parishes

[@adiyahhhh1435]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 one question tho, what is the position of the church? As a former Protestant, i realize that having the church as a foundation is VERY important- but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t mistakes or that the church is incapable of being wrong. If something seems contradictory to scripture, or if there is a disagreement, how do we go about it? Do we just do things because the church says so and that is above scripture? Is it 50/50?

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@adiyahhhh1435 You raise an interesting question. When we understand the Church properly, we see that there is no opposition between Scripture and the Church. The Church wrote the Bible, compiled it, and leads the way in interpreting it. This video can help: Be the Bee #128 | How to Read the Bible kzbin.info/www/bejne/sHfQoKltbayXeLM

[@babaraba5551]

I wake up on Sundays and something stops me from going.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

I feel that resistance, too. Maybe you can reach out to a friend or family members: make a plan to go to Church with someone, as an extra push to make the right decision on Sunday morning.

[@tamalyncervin2117]

This is a big problem for all churches in America, not just the Orthodox Church. A big part of the problem is modern secularization and usually taking a stand for Christ means being politically incorrect and the possibility of verbal attack in a classroom setting. Youth need to be taught apologetics in addition to understanding their faith. One of my priests likes to say "we are all converts" meaning that we all have to decide for ourselves to follow Christ, which means self-denial, taking up our crosses, and following Him. It definitely isn't easy, but it's so worth it because Christ far surpasses anything this world can offer.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Fair point, though we need to be careful not to overstate the possibility of attack. We cover the place of something like apologetics in our ministry training course, "Effective Christian Ministry." Teaching people about the faith can only happen after they understand that it matters; otherwise, it's abstract at best or hypocritical at worst.

[@tamalyncervin2117]

Thanks for responding! I meant that one reason why so many young people leave the Church is because they are presented with extremely liberal views in college or even high school, and if they're not grounded in their faith and know how to articulate what they believe and why, it can be very easy for doubt to creep in along with all the temptations the world has to offer. I'm speaking out of my own experience in high school and college, before I converted to Orthodoxy; I was taught well as a evangelical and there were times I stood up for my faith in the classroom, and for the most part I think ppl respected my beliefs. Some atheist college professors can be pretty bad though...

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@tamalyncervin2117 Yeah, there's a tension. On the one hand, we may be tempted to blame secular forces. On the other hand, we see that people tend to respect our beliefs. Questions like this shape our new ministry training course, "Effective Christian Ministry." effectivechristianministry.org/

[@kenttaxevader5213]

I'm not a Sports Fan.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Sorry if the comparison wasn't helpful for you.

[@lornadoone8887]

Two years later, let us hope our hierarchs have learned if you don’t want people to stay away from Church, imitate the Saints and not the lies of worldly fear-mongering authorities and don’t alter theLiturgy or bar the faithful from the Chalice!!!

[@dudesweet1583]

Great episode indeed. I had great hope for the Leafs last year but I'm pretty sure we over paid for Tavares. Great player but the immediate improvement of the Islanders was evident after he left. I'm way more loyal to Jesus than the Leafs now...thankfully 😂

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

LOL that's some real growth there. :-)

[@classicalhomeschoolcorner4505]

Are there any Orthodox gap year programs currently in existence? Our nephew who is evangelical, is taking a year off of school and is taking part in a year-long discipleship gap year program before entering college. Something like that would be so helpful to keep our Orthodox young adults engaged in the life of the church. To have a year with peers who are pursuing God together through prayer, service and close connection to the life of the church together during a time in life where a lot of identity formation is taking place. We have two young girls (4 and 1) and my mind is always going towards how I can equip them when they leave our home. A gap year would be such a nice option for families who are helping launch their children into the world, but want to launch them well into a safe community of other committed Orthodox Christians.

[@tamalyncervin2117]

I took a year off from school in between high school and college because school was so stressful. Personally I don't know of any Orthodox gap year programs but I'm sure your priest would love having young people really involved in any kind of ministry for a year. Also OCMC has short term mission trips every year abroad and in Alaska for people who are interested in foreign missions, and they're always looking for more long-term missionaries! At Hellenic College there is a semester of faith option for college students from any college, and the University of St Katherine near San Diego is the only liberal arts Orthodox college in America! www.usk.edu :)

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Great question! This is something that a few people have talked about, but I'm not aware of any ideas that have fully gotten off the ground. Agreed, it would be very helpful!

[@classicalhomeschoolcorner4505]

@@tamalyncervin2117 Thank you so much! I did not know about the semester of faith at Hellenic College. I think ideally either that or some kind of missions. There’s plenty of time for school, but I think it would be good to take advantage of those years where they are just leaving the house and single with little commitments to build a strong foundation for their faith to develop on their own terms apart from our home so they can make the faith their own. I know ultimately I can only guide and encourage, but it is nice to know the options that are out there when that day does come. It’s so hard on this day to be a Christian in America, let alone a Orthodox Christian (where we are in the minority amidst the Protestants and Catholics). My hope is to connect my children to ministries that will really help encourage their spiritual formation in the Orthodox tradition.

[@diggity_shwiggity]

I’m sorry I’m late Steve please forgive

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Late for what?

[@diggity_shwiggity]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 It took me a week to get around to watching it! Very good video nonetheless.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

@@diggity_shwiggity There's no pressure to watch sooner (or at all). Whatever works for you!

[@johnleontakianakos4362]

i have been a big fan and supported of "be the bee" for quite some time; and many of the videos have helped me reach out to other. I must say however, I'm just not feeling this one.

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Sorry to hear that. What didn't sit well about this episode?

[@johnleontakianakos4362]

@@stevenchristoforou1667 Hi Steve. Thanks for the reply. I find myself making similar errors when trying to explain aspects of the faith and have to use real life comparisons. At times, it feels like we are reducing the faith (thus, doing it a disservice). Such as the loyalty comparison. I will climb on a cross with a smile on my face for our Lord; I'm not missing lunch over the Islanders...no matter how much I like them. Just speaking from my own experiences and the dozens of kids I have seen go through this transition; those that had a good foundational upbringing and are accustomed to "congregating" often with like minded people, almost always find their way home to the church; as that critical foundational piece is forever with them. When they are lacking that (as was the case with me) rarely do they find their way there. I was fortunate as my wife had the upbringing I was lacking and found my way back to the church, as an adult, through her devotion. Its 30 years later and I've never looked back. I think the answer is a simple one. Many ask me why aren’t more people attracted to the truth of Orthodoxy? And my answer is always “more would be, if only we ourselves set a better example for them; as WE are His church”. I believe the same holds true with this subject matter as well. Nonetheless brother, keep up the good work. You are truly making a difference.

[@MarcelBal15]

Haha at least the Islanders have won 4 Stanley Cups. I cheer for the Canucks

[@stevenchristoforou1667]

Haha fair! Though that history didn't always help when we stank.

[@kenttaxevader5213]

Back in Ancient Greece and Rome Christian's were called Atheists. Fun Fact.

[@derycktrahair8108]

Full of something. Collection = buy my stuff. Change Table accepts credit cards? We won't Tell on you, we will PRAY for you.