Good Prog vs Bad Prog | Mike The Music Snob

[@muenchhausenmusic]

Where can I find this original song that you mentioned in the intro? To you, it is named? Didn't find it, I'd love to hear it, though! Edit: Ah, fuck, it's called Won't be saved. I got that now XD

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Here ya go 🤘 open.spotify.com/album/7FAIf5UiaPsW5NHkFK5tg9?si=JbP7Gey_Sbu9eOVHRLDncw

[@muenchhausenmusic]

@@BecomeTheKnight Haha, stupid me XD

[@conormurphy4328]

#selfsponsorpin

[@mattharriss3835]

@@BecomeTheKnight everything should be Opeth..ish I believe. ROCK ON!

[@jureipavec8372]

@@BecomeTheKnight I really wanna check out your song but spotify isn't available in my country... I guess I'll have to naruto run to Area 51 to a different song 🙄

[@happyface7836]

Can’t wait to hear how much mike hates dream theater

[@conormurphy4328]

Oh god we’ve been click-baited!!!

[@happyface7836]

Conor Murphy I was duped

[@SEiMEi_EXiSTS]

@@happyface7836 Bamboozled!

[@SEiMEi_EXiSTS]

@@PurpleOverdrive We've been smeckledorfed!

[@bhicksbraf4038]

@@SEiMEi_EXiSTS that's not even a word and I agree with you

[@simonamper736]

So progressive bands are bad at being progressive because the are only progressive and so do not progress from being progressive? Wait, what did I just say?

[@EnvisionedBlindness]

I really hope you're trying to be ironic and not trying to rag on the very articulate points of this video

[@kingofdragontown9680]

Lay off the cocaine, sweetie.

[@geekymetalhead5112]

*visible confusion*

[@mitkoatanassov6350]

I get exactly what u mean 😂. If they are CONSTANTLY being progressive...are they really progressing?!

[@stevierv22]

Yes, it was a kinda weird argument. Evolving as a group/artist, approaching other music styles and incorporating this to your music is a totally different thing from being prog.

[@WaddupMinecraft11]

Using this, one could argue early 80s thrash was "progressive" as it was a totally unique mix of British heavy metal and punk

[@awookieandagerman]

It totally was! Metallica started off their career by being just about the first band out of the gate to release this brand new sound, progressing both punk and metal in the process. The only problem, as it is with a lot of these kinds of subgeners, is bands get so attatched to the sound they discovered that they don't venture outside of it. Metallica never really progressed any further than the technical thrash metal of AJFA, or I suppose the fusion of thrash and mainstream rock aesthetics on the Black Album may count as well (certainly that move influenced Megadeth and a few others to follow suit). So from that sense original thrash bands are totally prog, but they didn't really stay that way for very long. For an example of an artist who has more or less consistently pushed themself to progress we could look to David Bowie. For over a decade he seemed to always be a step or two ahead of the zeitgeist, like he just knew where the fresh ground was to be broken. He got lax for a while in the 80s living off the success of Let's Dance, but by the end of his career he'd returned to pushing his craft into unexplored directions. The fusion of drum n bass aesthetics with jazz saxophones and theatrical songwriting on Blackstar just isn't something I've heard anywhere else. And what's more, Bowie said he pulled a lot of influence for that record from another groundbreaking record released just a year earlier, Kendrick Lamar's To Pimp A Butterfly. That's prog!

[@skooptywooop1030]

I feel like he tried to avoid saying King Crimson in his prog examples.

[@zolin6840]

skoopty wooop yeah like they fit perfectly into his definition, they changed their own style and still were hugely influential. Also they melded genres.

[@marius9372]

They possibly are the best definition of "progressive music". Inspiration comes from a ton of different genres, each album different from the others (apart from the second, basically a rippoff of their debut album)... And I don't know why, I feel like he avoided saying King Crimson on purpose. Curious to know whether it's true or not.

[@EzioMonty117]

I wish prog bands nowadays were as progressive and creative as King Crimson. These guys really were "progressive". Most prog bands now just take a lot from the past and don't really "progress" if you know what i mean

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

EzioMonty117 Just listen to Björk. I know she started as a cutsie Icelandic Pop singer, but her later stuff is very much prog.

[@larkstonguesinaspic4814]

Yeah, how can he not mention literally the most progressing prog band

[@JamoboBorg]

Wait... did you just clickbait me with the beautiful Petrucci?

[@conormurphy4328]

Muhahaha

[@marius9372]

He did that against us all

[@adindubose9624]

Mark Holcomb is one of the best rhythm guitarists of the past 15 years

[@heylookitsn0ah]

Ojas Kavathe yeah, but most of what mark does is rhythm. He’s incredible as a lead player, but he’s faaar better as a rhythm player

[@jaxsonclark5414]

Juice Box! Would you even count any periphery song as having a rhythm part😂 like obviously they have rhythmic stuff but even then it feels super lead heavy. Songs like Flatline or Scarlett

[@jjjenthusiast-9755]

Adin DuBose all of periphery’s guitarists are great honestly

[@adindubose9624]

@@jaxsonclark5414 DUDE Scarlet is the best

[@soulfare333]

Hahahahahahhaha let us laugh at him hahahahahahahahahah

[@BrandonofRedemption]

Periphery have just come into their own and are just making refined songs based on their tastes. One thing you didn’t mention, is how not only did Periphery push musical boundaries but they also have influenced mountains of musicians/bands in terms of production!!!

[@mistersinister93]

!!!!!! i second that

[@No1WillMakeItOutAlive]

Very true. Everyone mentions meshuggahs influence on periphery, but no one seems to mention how periphery has influenced every basically every metalcore band of the past 5 years into being djentier, pushing the genre into its own unique sound removed from either the metal or hardcore that birthed it

[@gigamix7394]

I haven’t fully listened to Periphery’s Hail Satan because it seems like a totally different style compared to P2 and Select Difficulty. My favorite album of theirs has to be P2. Is HS like their older albums? Or is it just crazy?

[@DetrikXanthos]

@@gigamix7394 Hail Stan* who is this Satan you speak of?

[@gigamix7394]

DetrikXanthos OOF I really goofed on that one didn’t I? But you know of any songs to get straight into on that? Their style just feels so weird to me now

[@josuastangl7140]

So... good prog: Beatles bad prog: Dream Theater, Periphery

[@sspark2686]

Yep, lol

[@josuastangl7140]

@@RacecaR08 Yup...turns out I really like bad prog.

[@reconn7]

Comical

[@joelcprice]

While I agree with his classification of the Beatles as the first progressive band, he's completely misunderstood what defines the genre.

[@GrimBeakington]

Exactly XD

[@adamcogan211]

I though Hail Stan was incredibly inspiring and some of Periphery’s best, most genuine work. Reptile is the best, most adventurous song they’ve ever done in my opinion and the entire thing is phenomenal.

[@DiegoPujolT]

Agreed. In terms of composition it’s their best album, in my opinion.

[@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385]

Agreed. I've been listening to Periphery since their first album.

[@popnoice8126]

You're spot on with Periphery just making music they love. In an interview about Hail Stan with Jake and Spencer and they basically said they aren't trying to fit into a genre, they are just trying to make music that they are proud of. That's why there were songs like It's Only Smiles and Crush on the album. Personally I really love the fact that each album they put out is a little bit different than the last. I can listen to large chunks of their catalog in a row and not get bored.

[@leonbarron368]

Totally agree on the Beatles. Although I would say King Crimson took prog to a whole new level

[@HaveButOneLife]

One of the best prog rock bands.

[@asloii_1749]

Absolutely

[@jessenoreligionno5731]

Mike: I always talk about prog. Everyone else: He never mentions Tool in the discussion. Me: I thinks Mike does not like Tool.

[@sspark2686]

Oh uh

[@OMGItsJimmyNash]

As an official music snob myself (soundtrack composer, producer, guitarist, bassist, drummer, pianist, modular synthedoozer, mandolinizer, banjoteer, vocalist, etc etc, and not to mention one very well educated listener) my personal opinion is that anyone who can't appreciate Tool is no music snob at all... in fact they would have to be tone deaf AND despise godlike rhythm and spectacularly robust melodic arrangement. So if that's the case, then suddenly the opinions mean much less to me. Especially considering how dreadfully boring and awkward Dream Theater's pointless and pretentious note cramming wankery is... Oh shit, did I say that?

[@dudeman5303]

They are a great band but Idk if they're really prog. They kinda were when they first started

[@simonriley4131]

God I love Tool so much

[@jaspergillgannon4991]

@@dudeman5303 I think they're absolutely a prog band. Lateralus, imo, is one of the greatest modern-day prog albums

[@conormurphy4328]

2:24 I didn’t come here to be personally attacked

[@Rosario_Verano]

He kinda has a point though... and it pains me saying that. xD

[@EzioMonty117]

4:20 I didn't come here to be personally attacked either

[@conormurphy4328]

EzioMonty117 yea, blaze it :(

[@papabroly8000]

Conor Murphy I’ve just transcended this phase of thinking. Missed me with that superiority complex accusation. Ha. *It was lonely up there in the clouds...*

[@substratic11213]

suck it up bitch boi if you feel attacked then it probably means hes giving you something substantial

[@Deathworg1]

Hail Stan is a freaking masterpiece, wtf.

[@williamiceman9939]

Other than reptile and maybe satellites, most of the songs are pretty bland.

[@thekempo9202]

Maybe not all songs from it, but man, reptile is definitely in my top 5 songs

[@timbrowner6643]

Sentient glow is fire tho

[@jaspergillgannon4991]

Maybe, if only just for Reptile

[@chadmarx7718]

@@williamiceman9939 wtf. Crush is like the only song there that is even close to being "bland"

[@calebhawk6868]

What I love about this channel is that you seem to be constantly rethinking everything. You don't let yourself fall into a place of basically just selling out for views. You're constantly evaluate what you're doing, and make sure that you keep the passion in it. I seriously appreciate that.

[@johnathangoldblatt2931]

I’d have to disagree with what you said about hail Stan.

[@SEiMEi_EXiSTS]

Mike: **Says Dream Theater is bad prog** Me: *IT'S THE SIGN OF THE TIMES!!!*

[@mihneazoican2479]

Check out "Sign of the Times" by Sons of Apollo, you'll think DT suck after that. Jk, I love DT, but SoA sound more fresh

[@crowing3886]

@@mihneazoican2479 sound more fresh? Dt has a 20+ years catalogue. They're gonna sound dated regardless lol.

[@papabroly8000]

Mihnea Zoican They sounded fresh when the album came out. Then it just became Latino DT for me. Go figure :/

[@enman009]

@@mihneazoican2479 I know is a 1 year later response... But DT have 14 albums while SoA have only a few and, to be honest, it's starting to sound samey (IMO).

[@ce1402]

I am the Walrus as the greatest shitpost of all time LMAO

[@Faerie_Kim]

Essential prog collection: first King Crimson album, Genesis 'Foxtrot' and 'Lamb Lies Down on Broadway', Yes 'Close to the Edge', every Pink Floyd album from the 70s.

[@snitchez1176]

FaerieKim Those are definitely some essentials. So, here’s some more King Crimsons ‘Red’, Rush’s ‘Hemispheres’, Gentle Giants ‘Octopus’, Van Der Graaf Generators ‘Pawn Hearts’, Jethro Tulls ‘Thick as a Brick’ and Emerson, Lake and Palmers ‘Brain Salad Surgery’. Pulse many more.

[@Faerie_Kim]

@@snitchez1176 I've got van der graaf generator 'H to He' and Jethro Tull 'Aqualung' but not the ones you mention. I do know that 'thick as a brick' is a very important album though. Thanks for the list of important prog albums. I'm always interested in listening to more prog.

[@EzioMonty117]

Don't forget Per Un Amico by PFM, Larks Tongues in Aspic by King Crimson, the three classic albums by Can, The Yes Album by Yes, Godbluff by Van Der Graaf Generator i could go on and on and on.

[@Faerie_Kim]

@Gordon Wright omg yes!!! Mike Oldfield Ommadawn. One of my favourite albums.

[@blukimbo3450]

Every Pink Floyd album from the seventies? I feel like people put Pink Floyd on a pedestal, when really *they are rivaled and surpassed* by several prog rock groups of that time. I think their music is just the easiest to listen to. Nevertheless, they are a fantastic rock band and, of course, "essential" in any music listeners catalog.

[@steveoooooo09]

Bad prog? BLASTPHEMY! 11/16

[@berserker8884]

This video is a contradiction.

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

Berserker It’s a contradiction and sums up why prog rock bores me to tears. I mean I love the Beatles, Pink Floyd (early career until it turned into prog with the Wall) and King Crimson. But Dream Theatre just sounds like your average overly technical metal band. It’s just clean sterile metal music. It’s like learning Jazz with John Coltrane and somewhere down the road becoming Kenny G. And now everyone thinks that Jazz is lame because of Kenny G. Yes, I am comparing Dream Theatre to Kenny G.

[@michaelharris1843]

@@user-xg6zz8qs3q That analogy actually makes a lot of sense.

[@joelcprice]

@@user-xg6zz8qs3q You're not wrong. Used to love Dream Theater. Now they bore me.

[@notoriusdrifter40]

@@user-xg6zz8qs3q Yeah to be honest DT is very boring to me, I remember rarely any of the songs I listened to. But I guess prog isnt my taste really. I like the likes of Gojira, Meshuggah and Children of Bodom a lot more.

[@snowinaz]

Progressive rock/metal are my favorite genres too. This was a really good video, thank you for making great content Mike. I was surprised you made this. Right after I learned writing riffs with polyrhythms I saw this and was excited. You do bring up some great points, prog isn’t just complex instrumentation. It should be literally progressive, pushing music in new directions. Thanks for your videos Mike! Ps. What do you think of King Crimson (dumb question)

[@DavidNwokoye]

I found your channel recently and I've literally watched 20 of your videos. You're awesome. 💪💪💪

[@borismihalko1]

Wtf i just saw you on paul davids's video

[@conormurphy4328]

Welcome to the snobunity

[@Fierylizard-zc3vk]

You're like the justin y of the music side of KZbin.

[@yankeerose7697]

@ping

[@darthvader4339]

@@borismihalko1 He’s the Justin Y. of music

[@grantmcmahon8735]

Personally, I think periphery has gotten better over the years. 3 and hail stan in my opinion are their best works. Very groovy and melodic with some pop moments that somehow work for me. Yeah they definitely aren't as proggy as before but they've honed in their strengths and written some great songs.

[@johnwallace2319]

The medley in abbey road gets me going. Just like when you hear “oh look out” and then “she came in through the bathroom window”

[@benfrizzell1244]

Golden Slumbers into Carry that Weight into The End is legendary

[@TheBlackQueen]

Wanmohan People claim In The Court Of The Crimson King is the first Prog album. Abbey Road came several months before it.

[@jakubtyniec70]

@@TheBlackQueen the thing with 'In the Court of the Crimson King' is that it's not the first example of progressive music but it's the first example of true 100% progressive rock album. Since like 1966 there was a lot of bands were progressive and experimental, like The moody blues, Frank Zappa, The Nice, Soft Machine etc. But In the court was the first album that really had every aspect of early prog that those bands presented. Ambitious lyrics, influences from jazz and classical music, crazy rhythm, changing time signatures, musicianship, epic long songs with unorthodox song structures etc. Abbey Road had some of that, like changing time signatures, a rock suite (the Medley) or some interesting vocal harmonies but musicianship, lyrics, structures or usage of chords on most of the songs was quite standard. It's really fucking great album with some proggy elements but it's not the best example of Progressive rock

[@ritalovesthebeatles]

@@benfrizzell1244 I've got the end lyrics tattooed on me 🤘

[@85vesti]

Some of these definitions are a bit snobby and inaccurate. I see Prog as any music within Popular Music that expands it's structure beyond formulaic verse-chorus-verse. There is so much genre bending and innovation in all genres - the only difference is their structure and capacity for complexity. For a prog artist to be great IMO they just have to have their own sound, own identity, and produce great music. Dream Theater qualifies. The Beatles were proto-prog and definitely influenced early Prog Bands by their exploration of structure and complexity. But their biggest influence was on all popular music as a whole - the more verse-chorus-verse type.

[@ericritonya2327]

Do you really listen to prog if you don’t act snobby about it anyways?

[@PlastikShark]

Right? I feel like there are much better examples to put down as bad prog than Periphery. Like what?

[@danielschweber917]

He is called Mike the music snob

[@Thiago_Alves_Souza]

According to your definition even Bieber can be prog. There's a reason why OG prog fans are snobs. We don't want everyone making up their definitons and stretching it like taffy. Prog is a blend of styles mainly rock,jazz,blues, fusion, bebop, classical music, with concept ideas, extended songs, odd times, complex to simple and between.

[@85vesti]

@@Thiago_Alves_Souza I was just saying the that 'progressive' had more to do with structure and complexity than the styles within that definition. I was saying that those elements are exclusive to prog - and that stylistic innovation and blending was a common theme in all new great artists in any genre, not just prog. Saying that perpetual innovation was a hallmark of prog was a bit snobby because it's an idealized view of prog. There is as much innovation and genre bending outside of prog as inside. Prog is just a domain in which those innovations and genre bends can flourish with greater complexity and less structural rigidity than other popular music.

[@wulfenii64]

To me the best prog is when they can paint images in your mind. "Close to the Edge" or "And You and I" by YES is a prime example. Many other prog bands can do the same in their own ways.

[@DavidMiller-dt8mx]

Absolute masterworks of prog.

[@benharbak]

All of Close to the Edge is glorious.

[@joeyhardin5903]

@@benharbak greatest album of all time. maybe second after Citadel of Sound, absolute classic album

[@matthewpettola33]

I love Relayer as well.

[@joeyhardin5903]

@@matthewpettola33 relayer is kinda just close to the edge 2 imo but its still fantastic - especially sound chaser

[@stefanfyhn4668]

Alpha and Omega as an album concept was quite interesting, and from my perspective quite unique. Most likely similar stuff has been done before, but I think it took concept albums to the next level. How each album had the same songs not quite mirrored, but either derived from each other or simply different interpretations, different "genres" for the same lyrics, changing the meaning of the words via context of the instruments and performances themselves. I considered this style of meta-writing quite "prog", but I don't know if you will agree to that.

[@GraphiteBlimp27]

Juggernaut is a masterpiece. One example of the lyrics you mention: in Psychosphere he sings “sadistic horror” and it’s showing how the main character’s mind is breaking from the anguish. In Stranger Things when he is coming back to life and given a second chance after his reckoning in hell, Spencer sings “majestic aura” with the same phrasing. Wonderful positive spin on that same theme. It’s all over the albums.

[@larkstonguesinaspic4814]

Video about progressive Rock, without mentioning the most innovative, most evolving and changing Prog band, King Crimson, isn't really right.

[@lorenzosala9289]

King Crimson are so unique that they went far beyond genres.

[@jimmycampbell78]

I enjoy very few of their albums. I like Court of the Crimson King and Red. But generally they are hard going. I enjoy Pink Floyd, Genesis and Yes albums much more.

[@larkstonguesinaspic4814]

@@jimmycampbell78 it took me years to realize how good King Crimson is. At first I was the same I liked Pink Floyd or Genesis a lot better. But when I started playing music myself and understood music theory better, also got into Jazz and improvisation, also got into Noise and Experimental music, then King Crimson became a lot more significant to me. Specially albums like Discipline and Larks Tounges in aspic.

[@derkstephens7464]

Love that you mentioned Mike Patton. His influence is soooooo disproportionate to his actual popularity.

[@coxeno7662]

Seriously. I slowly become obsessed with this channel. I sacrifice my high speed, instead of waiting an hour... I have to

[@conormurphy4328]

Join us brother

[@theopinson3851]

Strawberry Fields is an absolute masterpiece.

[@stevierv22]

The Beatles didn't invent prog but the were at the top of the world's rock scene at the time so they would very quickly get into everything new presented in music. Albums like The Mothers Of Invention ‎- Freak Out! 1966 The Nice ‎- The Thoughts Of Emerlist Davjack 1967 The Moody Blues ‎- Days Of Future Passed 1967 Pink Floyd ‎- The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn 1967 and probably many others were fast enough to ride the prog train. It was the time the gear for making prog was becoming available and experimentation was inevitable. Prog was bound to happen anyway. I am a Beatles fan myself but there were so many thing happening at that time they could not be out (or could they?) What you can admire on that band is their decision to slap society who wanted them to be a pop boy band and changed the game becoming a very non-mainstream friendly group as well as an influence to other prog bands that followed. The basis for developing prog was already in progress though, pun intended :)

[@stevierv22]

@Schizoid It wasn't the Beatles that brought experimentation, it was just what every band would do having the gear presented at the time. Well, imo prog would have progressed anyway.

[@diegosotomiranda4107]

@Schizoid thats a bold statement, cause the beatles werent the only ones, the most popular yes but always has to be one band more popular, we usually mix the industry impact with the art, if beatles didnt exist, other band could take that title and push the boundaries in popular music anyways

[@jwolf5927]

Tomorrow Never Knows came out in 66' on Revolver. That predates everything you mentioned. Of course, thats if you're counting early psychedelic rock as early prog, which seems to be what Mike is doing in this video.

[@ruddymolina7044]

Grand Funk Railroad

[@roneherushin4638]

As some one who found Periphery a while back I enjoy most if not all of their albums and they were my first experience in prog though admittedly I didn't know the proper criteria till this video.

[@revolution6661]

Don't get confused, his criteria might be different from yours. You always have to try to form your view of things. (Before getting triggered: I'm not saying Mike is wrong or right or anything like that)

[@roneherushin4638]

@@revolution6661 no ill feelings here. I do understand we all see and qualify things in different ways so it's all cool. It all just makes me want to keep my ear open to more vastly different styles in prog.

[@jameswoolverton8438]

Huh, always kinda thought experimental/avant-garde to be a better classification for bands who try to push boundaries constantly. Prog can be experimental, but it seems best to use the colloquial use of the term, as people wont necessarily fault a prog band for not experimenting. Experimental bands tend to be held more to account for not pushing boundaries. But that's just my layman's two-cents worth

[@farrex0]

Yeah, the definition of progressive as something that progresses the creative envelope, I do not think I buy that. As you mentioned, Avant Garde music has always existed and experimental music is not prog music unless they have prog elements to it. If that definition were true, then prog music would have always existed because there are always musicians that push the boundaries of creative expression. While yes several progressive bands have done just that. I always thought progressive was referring to musical progressions, since the very conception prog music has characterized for having multiple musical progressions in their music. I do not think most prog fans, would consider a song that only has one, two or even three progressions in the entire song as prog music, regardless of how complex and or creative they are. Of course, by virtue of the genre requiring variety in the progressions it allows creativity within the genre which pushes the creative envelope but I think that is more of a side effect of the nature of the genre more than a necessity for it to be considered progressive.

[@williamjamesayers7719]

that was such a great and fascinating descriptive breakdown of the Beatles. No one has ever described the Beatles in such a great way.

[@True_Rarity]

My favorite theme of progressive rock/metal is the genre blending. I feel like this was the definition of prog rock when it started. ELP playing a classical russian music piece with a fender jazz bass and distorted organ is an amazing creation, like who knew it would work so well? One thing that i have come to love is the very sudden change in genre, not just blending them like King Crimson and Rush, but completely 180 the song into a completely different genre mid-song. Haken and The Dear Hunter do this well, and as they are my biggest modern musical influences, this is something that I have been trying to perfect because it has such a mesmerizing effect on me. Needless to say, when Devin Townsend released Genesis, i probably listened to it back to back about 40 times the day it released because it really was a perfect example of the sudden genre change aspect.

[@PhilTheModMan]

I need a video with 10 Reasons Why Power Metal Never Dies

[@papabroly8000]

Phil J.W. With an immediate follow up of “10 Reasons Why Power Metal Should Die,” followed immediately by “10 Reasons Why Power Metal is Just Rehashed Heavy Metal”

[@frankf684]

It’s Europe fault.The continent not the band.

[@tarababcock]

The Beatles are to music what The Legend of Zelda is to gaming. Extremely overrated on its own, but extremely influential to the industry as a whole. The only difference is I really don't like the Beatles (aside from like 2 songs) and I actually like Zelda. :P

[@BecomeTheKnight]

We'll have to disagree on this one. But love ya no less 😘

[@tarababcock]

@@BecomeTheKnight Love ya more! :D

[@shadowfire_08]

Koji Kondo > Beatles

[@guym1234]

Very bad analogy. How can you be so influential and yet be overrated? If they were pioneering(which they were) then it seems to logically follow that they were rated pretty damn good by those they influenced.

[@Sam-qc6sz]

@@guym1234 Technically established trappers today are influential on the younger generation, so I don't think that "overrated" and "influential" are synonyms

[@LowdenFTW]

I completely agree with what you said about Periphery. They are my favorite band and P1 and P2 were monumental in regard to being progressive and influential. Doesn’t mean that the rest of their discography isn’t great, and as you said, it’s not the bands goal to be progressive for the sake of being progressive, but rather make music they feel like making.

[@eseguerito2629]

I’ve always just defined it in my head as “rock but more intricate or odd and not conforming to any mold just for the sake of it.” It’s always interesting to hear othere people’s interpretation of the term.

[@jeppyjep]

Isnt that just tech metal? Like technical death metal? Whats the difference between those two genres?

[@IOxyrinchus]

Thank you for mentioning Steve Vai and Opeth in the good prog category, they’re two of my favourite artists: Steve Vai is my guitar hero and one of the best and most progressive artists, and Opeth has made some of the best Progressive Metal I’ve ever heard. But let’s not forget Porcupine Tree... oh my god. I discovered them recently and I’m never turning back. If you haven’t listened to them, please do. Steve Wilson is a musical songwriting genius. Listen to the album In Absentia.

[@cobraimploder]

Opeth has not stopped exploring new sounds, in fact the last few albums have been a testament to their will to actually change. There is no doubt in my mind that they are the best prog band right now.

[@Metallistad]

My two favorite people who inspire me to look at everything is Stevie Ray Vaughan and Bill Steer. I love looking at all genre's of music and ask myself "What do I like, and what do I not like". It really has broaden my perspective on music, in general.

[@derekwadas8489]

Next video: *Good Psychedelic vs. Bad Psychedelic*

[@seank.2589]

Yes, please!

[@user-xg6zz8qs3q]

Of Montreal VS Tame Impala?

[@rangisweetman3662]

I would really like this actually. Not only just to see what he thinks is good and bad psychedelic, but his opinions on psychedelic music overall seeing as he doesn’t talk about the genre that much.

[@williamtaylor2044]

Dream theater basically pioneered prog metal and they are bad prog? They progressed prog into metal how is that bad

[@Mist_R]

I think you're mixing up evolutionary music and the progressive genre. Just my personal opinion.

[@seank.2589]

I agree.

[@nahmatelol6137]

almost as if hes taking the genre title to its literal dictionary definition

[@Mist_R]

@@nahmatelol6137 exactly

[@TundraCH]

I think cutting edge is a better word to use than progressive in terms of talking about "evolutionary music" in this context

[@jeppyjep]

What i dont understand is there are prog metal and tech metal, like technical death metal for example. What's the difference between prog and tech?

[@petercarroll684]

Love how honest your channel is

[@notproductiveproductions3504]

Good workout music (Through the Fire and the Flames) vs bad workout music (Let’s Get Physical) (I’m pretty sure it’s secretly about someone else entirely)

[@pwhqngl0evzeg7z37]

After listening to a bunch of samey djent (so called "progressive" metal) in the process of playing Clone Hero, which felt altogether not-so-novel, I found myself agreeing with his definition of prog rock. If one is to take the construction of the phrase literally, this is a necessary and I would argue *the* correct interpretation. But how should we label "bad prog?" (a label too harsh) i.e. bands which sounds like previous bona fide prog, but aren't necessarily doing anything super unique or "progressive?" My proposal is to call this genre "sound of prog," to refer to the bands which might not be literally progressive, but nonetheless sound like prog bands we know and love, especially the original ones. So, Gentle Giant is prog. Orthrelm is prog. Periphery I guess would be "sound of prog". (I don't know, I don't seek out "sound of prog".) Call it "SouP" for short.

[@halcyonflo0r952]

Look up David Maxim Micic's "Who bit the Moon" album Id argue he fuses genre flawlessly

[@denverrandy7143]

Omg,Just the Mellotron alone gives me chills on "I am the Walrus" and when Lennon comes in on the second part of the song "sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun"For me, pure bliss.You really start to see George Martin's production at work...I forget who it was,I think the guitarist of Jefferson Airplane that said "everybody at that time would wait to hear the new Beatles album sounded like to see what music was gonna sound like for the next 3-5 years" Lastly,when they recorded "Abbey Road" they had already made plans of dispersing.They said that was there attempt to make the best/perfect album that could incompice them at that time...oh yeah,Lennon has said at the time of recording "White Album"he was on Heroin which had a lot to do with 1.Him recording one side and Mccartney recording the B side and he told George Martin he didn't want any of his arrangements,he just wanted to keep it simple...thats the reason in the Album sleeve Lennon's looking left away from the band in there solo pictures.lol Sorry for the long rant comment and Love the Channel and respect all your views and opinions.👍🤘

[@Derekcoma]

love how everyone thinks Periphery were the first of that style when Periphery themselves state they got so much of their influence from Sikth. But this review is like someone stuck in time always wanting a band to sound like two albums before people grow as does their music.

[@nikolastefanov1737]

Great one. Quite an interesting theme that, I believe, deserves a second part... I'd just love to hear more of what you think on good prog vs bad prog.

[@eldritchkaiju5829]

What’s the difference between binary code and periphery tabs? This isn’t a joke I’m asking a legitimate question

[@kingofdragontown9680]

One's annoying to deal with. You choose which is which.

[@alexanderjhannon]

i understand this is probably a troll but have you looked/listened at Periphery tabs/songs from the last 3-4 albums? I’d argue there’s very little 0-1 going on

[@eldritchkaiju5829]

@@alexanderjhannon >correcting a shitpost >never gonna make it

[@oceandreams9625]

@@eldritchkaiju5829 I don't know if you're sick or trolling

[@hanginman2715]

It’s nice to listen to someone try to explain prog, I think that prog is a blanket term for the most part more sophisticated music, but prog can also just mean different, changing, so while it’s hard to explain I think everyone is progressive in there own little wau

[@cruizerbrony4902]

To me Prog is just an advanced style of playing and writing.....that’s it.

[@Perri-Prinz]

I think you have a better than average take on the actual nature of Prog, but being Prog actually has zip to do with influencing other musicians or pushing music forward. The Beatles did not invent Progressive Music. I believe it was Billy Joel or someone like that who said it would be news to him if all music that has ever existed wasn't Progressive. I mean if you look from Bach to Beethoven to Tchaikovsky to Stravinsky there's a very clear progression there. Likewise if you look from early Jazz to Swing to Be-Bop to Progressive Jazz there's a clear line of progression there. And if you look from early blues to Boogie Woogie to Western Swing to Rock & Roll to Rockabilly to Soul to Folk to British Invasion to Psychedelic to Blues Rock to Art Rock and on and on there is not only a single line of progression, but multiple strands of progression that entwine around each other as they go. Thus, the idea of Progressive Music is like saying Music Music. Music is of its own nature progressive. So if your musical creativity is forwarding a line of progression, you're not doing anything every other creative or inspired musician hasn't been doing since the inception of music itself. The mistake you make is that you think The Beatles invented this idea of being Progressive. That's a total misunderstanding of history. What The Beatles invented through their natural progression as a band was Art Rock. And that was not a progressive idea. It was a revolutionary idea. The idea that Pop or Rock Music could actually be artistically valid on a Classical level. That's what Paul McCartney talked about at the time of Sargent Pepper. He wanted to make Pop Music the Classical Music of the day. And every band that we today call Prog that was around at that time pounced on this idea of Art Rock. Not on an idea of being Progressive. Progressive was a term the media came up with for a radio format that showcased the unique artists of the day who defied pigeon-holing. But no one was thinking about pushing music anywhere, or influencing other bands to copy them. Indeed, the idea of copying what others did was repugnant in those days. To be accused of it was to lose credibility as an artist. This is why the classic Prog bands don't sound anything like each other, and no common line of progression can be followed between them. The only line of Progression that can be followed is the line you follow within each group's discography as they progress in the development of their own unique art concepts, just like you observed with The Beatles. So, if the newer bands of today that we call Prog were doing the same thing as the original Art Rock bands, they wouldn't be worried about pushing music forward, because music will move forward on its own. Instead they would all have their unique art concepts that they would be developing throughout their discographies. And I think what you said here about Dream Theater indicates that you don't see them doing that. You see them getting stuck in a rut, and you see that as being a common situation with a lot of newer bands, most of whom have no interest at all in the idea of Art Rock. They want to be playing in established and relatively stagnant genres based loosely on certain sounds common to the perennial Art Rock bands; imitation providing a false pretention of being Progressive entities, when they aren't progressing anywhere. Any progression that's happening is just music moving along as it always has with the advance of new technologies and naturally evolving styles. So this whole idea of Progressive Rock is complete folly. No one has ever consciously wanted to be Progressive. Musicians like to be current, close to the cutting edge. They want to be at the forefront of where music's natural progression is currently at. But they don't necessarily want to be guiding the course of the saw. That would require original ideas. And modern Proggers generally don't like the idea of Art Rock. Most of them wouldn't be caught dead going off on the kind of individualistic exploration of unique ideas represented by the discographies of Gentle Giant, Renaissance, ELP, Genesis, etc. Prog is not Art Rock. Prog is not about individuality. It is about conformity to the ideas of a fandom with a tendency towards lower expectations. No matter how much it calls itself Progressive and basks in an illusion of innovation, all the fandom really wants is familiarity. It's kind of like that album you did that I gave a harsh review of recently. That album was hell bent on ticking all the Prog Metal boxes without adding a single original concept to give it substance. Like all modern Prog Metal it was jacked up to volume 11. And musically there is no way to go up from volume 11. Jacking it up to 12 and beyond just for an illusion that you're going somewhere can only add distortion. And distortion to a point where no music can be heard or understood is not musical progress. The only way to progress from where Prog Metal is now is to turn the volume down until you get back into a range where there is some room to innovate, some potential to throw in an original concept unique to your band that your listeners have never heard before. Of course you'll lose your current audience doing that. But you know Gentle Giant was a successful Pop band before they became an Art Rock band. So they had to gather a whole new audience for their original idea. And that is the essence of the difference between a modern Prog band and a classic Art Rock band. If you want to function on the level of a Genesis or Yes, you must first have an original idea. You must then believe in that idea enough to be willing to suffer the departure of an audience you've cultivated that is incapable of appreciating original ideas. And you must hope against hope that your idea will strike a chord with a new audience. If you're not doing that, you're not fit to lick Peter Gabriel's boots. Let alone to proclaim yourself as the modern equivilent of what he helped pioneer. You want to pick up where he left off and carry on from there? That would take some serious balls. It's not something that should even be attempted by bands who feel a need to play it safe. So, what constitutes good Prog is good Art Rock which strives to be true to itself. Anything less is not worthy of the term Progressive, because it's not in the driver's seat, and it's not going anywhere. It may be great stagnant, formulaic music. It may even sell well within another genre. But as Prog it can only disappoint.

[@progrockmorelikefrogc0ck157]

Damn you made some really great points and perfectly explained my issue with prog. Its contradictory (is that a word?) in alot ways. Its was only truly "progressive" at one point in time. Since then its become the preference for the typical superiority complex ridden elitist. There can be a wide variety of reasons I enjoy an album or a song, whether it be originality, the theme, the emotion, or even just because the sound is flat out pleasant to my ears. But prog fails to check any of those boxes, these guys play runs that are nothing new, I can go on youtube and find hundreds of thousands of guitar "virtuosos". But that word has kind of lost its meaning. Prog rock no longer pushes music, represents something I can get behind, or even sounds good at this point. Prog fans tend to ONLY listen to prog and usually suck at their respective instrument if they play one. Its rare to ke to find a hardcore prog elitist that REALLY enjoys the vibrations of music at a basic level. Alot of them just want to appear sophisticated and they make every decision based on how smart they will look

[@SurgicalStrike41]

To me, progressive music has always meant music that is focused on progression, not music that is progressive in a broader sense of the term. In this respect, structure is the defining factor. Songs which deviate from the standard verse-chorus format and are instead focused on theme and variation, the use of leitmotifs, contrasting various chord progressions, modulation, changes in tempo and time signature, the use of movements in the way a classical piece does, the use of formats atypical of the genre (like a fugue, for example), etc. are progressive. Bands that write music primarily in this style are progressive. Innovation or fusion is not necessarily inherent, although it's quite common for progressive music to be innovative and fuse genres. Music focused on creating a new sound would be what I call experimental and if it winds up being unusual or bizarre, avant-garde. Again, a lot of progressive music has these attributes as well. This is all very subjective and I'm no expert. That's just my way of differentiating and defining those terms. I respect your opinion and it's made me think. I've always thought of Dream Theater as the kings of modern prog and of Periphery as progressive metal before any other subgenre (imo djent is not a true subgenre, it's just a style of guitar playing). I guess that all depends on your perspective, though.

[@commentingonly7337]

"The Beatles were the first to be prog and their melodies are some of the best" The Kinks: "Am I a joke to you?"

[@michaelhudson2912]

Brian Wilson's melodies were way beyond the Beatles'

[@ryanwiseman9141]

Kinks never get any love. Arthur, holy shit

[@ritalovesthebeatles]

Cough *** wrecking crew** cough

[@jimmycampbell78]

Reading the comments, everyone forgets Pink Floyd ‘Piper at the Gates of Dawn’ (1967) because their more famous albums came later. People forget the Moody Blues and more obscure bands like Family, Mahavishnu Orchestra and The Nice. I think prog began with these bands. Then you get Crimson, Yes, ELP etc.

[@transient442]

There’s a little irony in progressive music having these guidelines lol I understand why but I think people should just listen to a song for what it is, cause genre labels don’t indicate the quality of art by any means, but there’s people out there that really believe it to be that way. Genres are like races of people, there’s good and bad in every single one of them

[@conormurphy4328]

I’m sure the irony of there being strict checklists to be in a supposedly innovative genre is not lost.

[@thelastdaybreathinginetern1385]

Loathe!!!!

[@Amadeusthegreat100]

I totally agree with your Beatles argument.

[@zoomerjack5435]

What if progressive rock is just regular rock, and we all just haven’t progressed enough?

[@awookieandagerman]

That's pretty much the entire story behind The Beatles early music. You hear it now and don't think much of it, but as Mike said, it was revolutionary for its time.

[@justaguy2365]

Yes, Moody Blues, ELP Genesis,Tull, Zappa, Crimson... good prog

[@pedrogilquaresma1791]

Hey Mike, find it interesting that you mention the Beatles having given up more by Let it Be than Abbey Road - Let it Be was (mainly) recorded before Abbey Road. I agree that Let it Be wasn't as great as what came before it, it just felt messy (even if fun). I mean, "I Me Mine" sounds killer but unfinished and I wish they'd worked more on it, for example. But Abbey Road is magical to me, in very many ways. One of my favourite albums of all time, just always an experience with each listen.

[@walsobrinho]

This kind of video has the greatest qulities of SSF in my opinion, which is showing some of the criteria you use to judge music, and you can go further in this format, showing how does this criteria applies successfully and how it fails. To me this is important because it gives me linguistic tools to discuss music in a more objective way. Thanks a lot and keep it up, man!

[@Arfshesaid457]

Beatles, mostly agree but they did some nice technical and theory implementations. Mr. Zappa, way agree. Mike Patton is underappreciated. Dream Theatre, agree and someone had to say it.

[@w4tt58]

Take the word bad off of misha's face. THIS IS GODDAMN HERACY

[@MaxRamos8]

Can you go over Gothic rock/metal? Like Evanescence, Laguna Coil, within temptation, we are the Fallen, etc

[@grifballa]

Can't forget Type O Negative

[@omkarbharambe8673]

and cradle of filth?

[@GogiRegion]

(+grifballa) Definitely. When I think Goth, Type O Negative is the first band to come to mind.

[@RyanAcidhedzMurphy]

@@omkarbharambe8673 Cradle consider themselves extreme metal. More a blend of power, symphonic, black and horror punk/metal stuff than goth.

[@Delaecress]

Gothic Metal to me is Paradise Lost, Tristania, and, Theatre Of Tragedy. Lacuna Coil? yes. Within Temptation is just symphonic metal, Evanescence is hard rock at best.

[@atthecore4560]

"There's to many notes." "There are only as many notes as I require, your majesty." Name the quote, plebs!

[@mateogarcia6942]

Good VS Bad ALT ROCK EDITION!

[@josephancion2190]

I liked your point on the masses being ignorant, it was well-made, but I don't personnally think the masses are actually ignorant, nor that I am better than them. But your point was damn well constructed, so kudos for that.

[@davidanderson7643]

Coheed & Cambria's 2nd and 3rd albums are very prog.

[@shadowfire_08]

David Anderson 🤙🏻🍻🙌

[@jumphawk8836]

That's a weird way to pronounce king crimson

[@DrakusRecords]

I've been arguing for years that The Beatles were the ultimate prog band. It's nice to see someone who agrees. Disagree with your take on Abbey Road though. I think it's their best album. The magic may have been waning with The White Album and Let it Be (both still great albums), they managed to pull it together and knock it out of the park for Abbey Road. George Martin had a lot to do with it though.

[@ChasingKillersMusic]

I applaud your talk of The Beatles. I have always said the same thing.

[@bodowen]

For the record, Let It Be was recorded prior to Abbey Road.

[@waynecox3958]

And Abbey Road was recorded because the Beatles decided they didn’t want to go out on a whisper of bad vibes.

[@allenmorgan6847]

Mike does pushing the envelope also mean vocally as well, as in singing voices that have never been heard before?

[@DahliaOlive]

Lolol. “Good” Bad vs. Just Plain Bad would be interesting. 😂. 💜

[@merschavonia4745]

That is something I really like with opeth, they’re not afraid of trying out new things. You don’t have to like sorceress for instance, i don’t. But it is at least something you’ve never heard before and I would personally don’t want another album like blackwater park, I love that album to death but they would have done that before. Therefore, I’m really excited for their new album that Mikael said was gonna be more technical and energetic yet without growls. Personally I would like to see more growls since I find Mikael’s growls to be some of the best out there. But I very much respect them for doing what they want without caring too much what their fans will think. Awesome vid btw! 😎

[@Concatenate]

You do have to like Sorceress for that chugging riff and Mikael's great vocal work. Otherwise, good comments. :)

[@zandervia1223]

Could Black Sabbath be progressive since they are technically the first metal band therefore progressing the genre of metal/rock?

[@Eleni_Be]

Yes

[@nottobay6768]

The early days? yes. After they kicked out Ozzei they turn mediocre.

[@Eleni_Be]

@@nottobay6768 agreed

[@ethann9433]

Their earlier albums are definitely prog. War Pigs is THE quintessential progressive metal song that almost single-handedly invented the genre. It expanded rock music beyond the basic verse-chorus structure in a way that hadn't been done before

[@De_Futura]

Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage have progressive songs.

[@Arisen_Rhez]

For me, basically it is : everything's before 79 VS everything's after

[@PraisedLink]

Notification squad!!🤘🤘 Love ur vids Mike🤘

[@kiethveseyofficial]

Hey @Becometheknight I’m starting a prog metal project, what name do you think goes with progressive metal?

[@joelandreasson8445]

I saw Dream Theater, Tesseract, Animals as Leaders, Freak Kitchen and Jinjer recently and that really highlighted some other aspects of modern prog that I really dislike. The worst, probably is the lack of proper songwriting. This was especially obvious with AaL, who actually got quite groovy at times, but never really expanded on the groovy parts or returned to them at all. The returning hook is such a powerful tool (see the chorus return Serenity Painted Detah by Opeth or the third, higher tempo, return of the power chord riff from early in the song on Fracture by King Crimson) and basing (almost) a whole song around one riff while changing surrounding melodies, rythms and dynamics (No Twighlight Within the Courts of the Sun by Steven Wilson and The Battle of Glass Tears by King Crimson (part of the Lizard suite)) is also very powerful. The idea that prog is about spitting out as many different ideas as possible in a ten minute song does a great disservice to the genre. So, out of the aforementioned lineup, Freak Kitchen ended up being the most interesting, even though they don't think of themselves as progressive (I think they kind of are, blending punk, hard rock and a touch of indian rythms), they have some rock solid song writing and funny lyrics. Dream Theater exceeded my expectation though, and all around there was only one of the bands that I didn't really enjoy. Allso, listen to King Crimson

[@johnwallace2319]

Did you include anthology? And did you go with UK releases? Uk releases were put in order by the band and producer, while us releases were mashed together by label.

[@aydep3363]

I was kinda hoping he would talk about or mention Tool. I’m a huge Tool fan, and I think they’re the best prog metal band, but even if he would’ve talked shit about them (Doubt he would though) I still would’ve liked to know his opinion

[@memecraft6764]

This didnt age well

[@ayylmao8691]

@@memecraft6764 lol

[@Heatwave9000]

Proceeds to upload a why I don't love Tool video...

[@stuartfishman1044]

When a musical form becomes a formula or a blueprint, that's a recipe for trouble.

[@QazwerDave]

This definition makes it untennible as a genre. You would never know what to expect this way. It would share the problem found in power metal.

[@papabroly8000]

David Orvik Prog isn’t a genre; it’s a thin slice of any/each genre that pushes the boundaries of the normal into the abnormal, unique, and original. Haven’t watched the video yet (forgive me), but that’s my unbiased opinion on the matter.

[@QazwerDave]

@@papabroly8000 Everyone/everything that places bands and songs into genre disagrees with you, and even if we ignore these people and institutions, that's how the term is generally used. This use of prog in this video causes confusion, even though it might be actually correct, and requires the invention of a new term for the "genre" prog is usually used for. I'm completely open for the invention of such a term, as I am with the several terms needed for the cluster that is power metal.

[@theirishpotato6588]

Thank you scientist is amazing.

[@shadowfire_08]

The Irish Potato 🙌🍻🤙🏻

[@theirishpotato6588]

@@shadowfire_08 yes

[@airfords1503]

Finally! A video that I can disagree on more than two points on! Well, not really disagree, just confuses me a bit. So, Periphery and Dream Theater are bad prog. Ok, that's fine, I guess, but they aren't bad bands at all, they make amazing content and such. So we shouldn't really call them prog, because they don't fit as well as Steve Vai or King Crimson in the spectrum. Ok, that would be fine, but what the hell am I supposed to call them, then? Should we add another subgenre to the already extensive list of metal/rock? Or should we literally introduce people to those bands like "Oh yeah, they're amazing, but they aren't good prog"? Or should we just adapt a new meaning to the term Prog to make our lives easier? It just all seems way too complicated to call amazing bands bad at their genre, or to create a new genre. And even if we did make a new genre, what should we actually call it? No, really, what am I supposed to call them without saying they're bad at their genre? It just seems a bit silly in my eyes to try and fit almost any band into a definition of "good prog" that won't eventually lose their actual identity/sound. If they keep progressing, they would theoretically have to lose their original sound completely at one point in time. Either that, or they quit before they hit that wall. Still, I enjoyed the video, as I do with all your content. Keep it up, Mike!

[@multi-purposebiped7419]

This video makes some very germane points. Become the Kight despite being a prog sprog groks prog way more than many people who climbed on the bandwagon when prog was already up and running. We who witnessed the gestation of prog made it our music because we got excited about all these bands who were doing different things, even if some haven't stood the test of time. The paradox of progressive music is that most people's choice of groups or records is predictable and generic. Some great prog acts make stinkers, some stinking acts make greats, some unknown acts are brilliant, some well known acts are beyond dull. Some have only one album in them but at least they make it.

[@QazwerDave]

With this definition, you need a new name for the genre in which bands and song uses certain elements generally recognized as prog !! That's what people think of as prog, and now we want a comparison video of that genre !!

[@Hollingsworth2781]

Great post Mike. I like your take on the beatles.

[@Outer0Heaven]

"The fact that so many books still name The Beatles as the greatest or most significant or most influential rock band only ever tells you how far rock music is from becoming a serious art" -Maynard James Keenan

[@FartsTasteDelicious]

Outer0Heaven Check your quote, it doesn’t make sense. I feel like you missed a few words or misplaced them, but I want to know the specific quote.

[@skullyosis9071]

Nice try, Mr. Scaruffi.

[@ericclaptonslowhand4726]

Good Prague vs. Bad Prague

[@Bigjunk9999]

The first progressive "metal" album was 2112

[@seank.2589]

I wouldn't say that it's Progressive Metal but I can see it being a huge influence to the creation of Progressive Metal.

[@williamcordell1501]

What an awesome album

[@harrycook9041]

This is, in my opinion, one of your most interesting ever videos! You completely changed the way that I think about Progressive Music and what it actually means to be progressive. This new definition of Bad Prog and Good Prog could maybe be changed, although "True Prog" sounds kind of worse. I think most bands that start out as explicitly Prog almost always move away from that sound. Look at Yes in the 80s and Genesis with Phil Collins (I think the major exception to this is King Crimson, who were always fucking mental). But yeah, Progressive as being moving the genre forward is an interesting an idea. I think some more to add to the Bad Prog list are: Mastodon (I love them but they don't really do anything new) Gojira (I mean, I fucking love them and you could argue their riffs were kind of revolutionary in terms of Death Prog, but meh) Muse (if you could call them Prog at all, they really only had one proggy album, Origin of Symmetry) Rush (my favourite band, but they were really just Led Zeppelin combined with Yes and Genesis, I supposed they added more of the harder edge of Prog but that's about it) Two more for Good Prog: Porcupine Tree (just Steven Wilson in general) Tool (completely changed the game in terms of Prog Metal, I know you don't like them as much as others, but they were something completely new and fresh). I'd say that Dream Theater with Images and Words and Awake (my two favourite DT albums) were way more progressive by your definition. Anyway, loved the video, love you, etc. Long live Prog!

[@harrycook9041]

I'd say Kate Bush is another good shout for Good Prog too.

[@mastniburek5386]

Good vs bad pop punk please

[@dylanbradshaw8706]

Is there good pop punk?

[@mastniburek5386]

Dylan Bradshaw yeah bands like Green Day Blink 182 and also some older ones like the buzzcocks and the dickies

[@Lightning-gg5iu]

Dylan Bradshaw Yes

[@benlegendre3646]

Really dig your new song! The growls fits in really nicely and it flows really well altogether