Beechcroft Model Railway - #35. Oh dear! What do I do here then??

#hornbyrailways , #modelrailways , #bachmann , #modeltrains , #oogauge
So, after giving all my steam engines a really good run I have issues with 3 of them (4 if you include the loss of sound on the A4), and this is where I need some guidance/ pointers.
I’m not confident enough just to start stripping the locos down so I’m wondering if any of you good folk have experienced anything similar with your locos. I’m hoping it might be something simple but who knows?!
If you have any suggestions please do comment below - it will really be appreciated.
Thank you, as always, for watching.
/ @grandadstrainroom-pn3tt
andyjxf​@yahoo.co.uk

[@BrianSanders-tn7pi]

Lovely loco's great layout. There might be some tightness in the motions for the knocking loco's. Definately get a rolling road. Give the bearings a good clean out, second hand loco's pick up a lot of mess over time. Also create a works schedule for your loco's. That way you can keep track on maintainance. I love the Duchesses also,I have 15 of them. I noticed that you have none in black though ? Keep up the good work on your layout. This is the joy of owning lots of loco's.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks for the tips. I do have a couple in black, City of St Albans and City of Glasgow, both LMS livery but they are the older tender motor type so not out on the layout! 😁

[@BrianSanders-tn7pi]

Hi Andy. Great video. I love the Duchess class also,I have far to many. Anyway onto the problems. I think that most of the potential problems have been covered.I would definately invest in a rolling road. Also I don't think the problem is with the decoder ,but if not sure run them in anolgue mode. I think that there is some tightness in the motion on the lurching loco and the knocking sound could be a snag in the rods. The bearings could also need a good clean out and re-lube. Maybe give them a run at a slightly faster speed to see if the knocking and lurching continues. I hope you solve the problem. Oh the joys of owning lots of loco's eh ? Create a works schedule as you work on each loco. Good luck.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. Yes, rolling road is definitely on the list - just been having a little mooch on the internet (out of view of the wife!) 👍

[@philipbancroft]

I'd suggest the coupling rods / valve gear could be catching somewhere. If you swap the decoder for a blanking plug, turn the loco upside down and put a 9V battery across the wheels, you'll be able to pinpoint any spurious noises better.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Great advice. Thank you 👍

[@Millsbritish4x4]

Going on from that, if you have access to a dial type indicator or ask a mechanic mate to borrow one, you'll see the run out!@@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt

[@Y55MAC]

Your Maroon Duchess has the Combination Lever in the wrong position. If you look at the left hand valve gear on all 3, looking from the Cylinders you should see what I mean. I had a similar problem on a couple of locos. It can cause stress on the gear and damage it if you aren't careful.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Oh really, I’ve not seen this. Thanks very much for spotting that. I’ll have a closer inspection 👍

[@1tonyboat]

Hi Andy , Had a simular problem on a schools class and the issue was a bit of ballast had got into the gears and was causing a clunk ,,,as every one has instructed give things a good clean ...

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Oh wow, really. Thank you. Hopefully it’s something simple like that 👍

[@delphjunction1168]

Hi Andy. Start with looking at the rods. Did have a loco with a clonk it was a broken cog inside. Best thing is to give it a service or get someone to service it, you should discover what it is then. I get Dan of Dans model railways to sort my locos out. Might be worth looking at his vlogs to see if he has repaired one with a similar problem. Good luck Andy, I know it's frustrating. Stay safe. Pete.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks Pete. All part of the enjoyment I guess! Take care, Andy

[@alanbarker5232]

Hi Hi, It's difficult to say from the video what the problems could be, but in all three cases the issue is timed with driving wheels. Firstly, have a quick check of the rods and pick ups to see if any are a little bent which might cause some binding. Second, have a quick check of the wheels to make sure they are clean and smooth (doubt it'd be this though) Finally flip the locos upside down, slowly power the wheels round, and have a look at the gear on the driving axel. These Hornby locos quite often have gears that develop small cracks and then split eventually. Other than that, I'm a little stumped...

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much. I’ve had a few suggestions that it might be cracked gears 👍

[@DaveAtLittleton]

My suggestion would be to take off the tender (assuming they are loco driven) and remove the body then give them a run, it might be a bit easier to see/hear. You could also try losening the motor so you can turn the wheels by hand/push it by hand, that will help you determine if the noise happens only in a certain position and you can then look to see if anything is snagging / knocking. Also worth checking the flat spots on the wheels cause by wear or any lumps caused by arcing.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much. I’ll try this out 👍

[@colinmeredith7114]

If you have a 2.5mm socket then, having removed the tender, remove the linkage, valve-gear, con-rods, bearings...one each side between the main cylinder rod and the con-rods, and then the base plate. Remove the wheels and clean and check...especially the axle drive-gear! Make sure it's not loose, worn, or split...plastic gears should be replaced as necessary. Check the intermediate gear for signs of wear or cracks or teeth missing. Then remove the body, the motor, and...the crown gear and check for wear, tear, damage of any/all kind. Renew or crimp the rivets of the linkage and, whilst you have the wheels off, check for 1/4ing and check the wheels/tyre-tread. Because you have at least two then I would put the issues down to wear and tear. The 3rd 46249 City of Sheffield is jerky...check for oil on the motor armature and commutator...clean the motor out with WD40 Specialist Contact Cleaner and soak the brushes and springs in IPA for a few minutes. Check for any parts catching! Check the pick-ups too! None of this is difficult if you take your time and reassembe correctly...con-rods, cylinder rod, eccentric link which has a different shape end of link. Don't forget to lubricate when refitting! It's surprising how many do forget!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Hi. Thank you so much for sharing some great tips. Hopefully I can get to the bottom of the issues 👍

[@colinmeredith7114]

The thud, thud, thud, could even be due to a worn, split, or missing tooth gear. Check the gears under a microscope if you have one. Colin.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks Colin. I’ll have a close inspection 👍

[@dinmorejunctionmodelrailway]

I always enjoy your videos. As for a rolling road, I like you couldn't see the point,just run locomotives on the track. That said, I managed to pick some up cheap from a toy sale DCC Concepts, but having loose parts is a bit of a pain. The TEN COMMANDMENTS Rolling Road, I've always thought of looking the best. £60 or £75 depending on which model.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. I will have a look at those. I do think I will benefit from one 👍

[@AJC-ym2jx]

That brought back some memories. When I was about 10 in the 1950s I agonised over buying the Hornby Duchess of Montrose or Duchess of Atholl. I went for the Duchess of Montrose because I liked the smoke deflectors. It cost the princely sum of three pounds 5 shillings (£3.25). This sounds pretty cheap but when your only income was pocket money of half a crown (12.5p) a week it took some saving up for. The tender was extra, I think it was about 50p or so. Those were the days!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Indeed they were! 👍

[@Millsbritish4x4]

For something to runout or oscillate , it would have to be running out of true, I'm assuming it's a worm and gear drive... possible the worm is out of true. Would it be possible to get it onto a rolling road, going to make things a little easier to see!. Could you swap the tenders over to see if it's gets better or worse, just some ideas.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much. I am the lookout for a rolling road. I think it will help! 👍

[@mels1811]

Excellent video

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you very much!

[@jpgale]

So at 4:35 in the video I notice some of the drive wheels of the green locos are not aligned. For City of Sheffield the front drive wheel is way over the edge of the rail where the other 2 are closer to the inside. For the second green loco (Duches of Wiltshire?) the first drive wheel is about centered on the rail and the second looks like it is riding the wheel off the rail and down the inside edge. I can not see the red loco well enough but the wheels I can see are as I would expect. I would check the gauge of all the wheels and the alignment. I would also ensure there is no grim in the gears and they are well lubed and not starting to get brittle (if plastic). You could also run the gearing by hand to see if you can feel any binding on the motion. That said I am not much of an expert here either, just things I would check

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much for sharing your thoughts. Really appreciated. I’ll check these things out 👍

[@clipperrail8988]

Start with the simple things first- lubricate all the valve gear connection points, the wheel axles/bearings and the worm gear. A rolling road is great for having being able to watch the valve gear moving on a stationary loco and invaluable for picking up problems in the valve gear motion, such as bends and tight spots. Cheaper alternative is a 9V square battery across a pair of wheels. Hope you manage to get them fixed.

[@TraceyAltoft]

do you mean 9v square battery ?

[@clipperrail8988]

Yes - 9V square. My mistake.@@TraceyAltoft

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks for the tips! I’m hoping to get a rolling road but will definitely try the 9v battery 👍

[@michaelchester8997]

A magnificent model railway

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much for your kind words 👍

[@CharlesPruden]

as others have said you need to remove the shells and run the engines. and a stand to hold the loco while powering the unit would be helpful. if any are difficult/ too expensive to repair you could disable the power pickups and park the loco on a repair track. and add a little weathering to the shells as well.dirty it up or clean sections like its getting some paint work done or getting washed.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Hi, good to hear from you. Thanks for the ideas. Appreciated, as always. Take care, Andy 👍

[@michaelsmith-hn1cn]

Hi Andy. I had this noise on a Hornby Merchant navy for a while then the valve gear broke. check it for any breaks. Mick Lakeside Railway

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks Mick. I’ll check that out 👍

[@barriewhiteley1692]

Ask 00bill

[@TraceyAltoft]

he is the reason ive become interested again in this hobby

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Ahh yes, I’ve seen some of his videos 👍

[@DrAl60103]

Knocking can quite often be a split gear in the drive. This was a common problem with some mid-2000s and onwards Hornby. CV settings are DCC electronics - this is definitely not your problem - there's a mechanical issue on these.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. I will have a good look at these 👍

[@Millsbritish4x4]

Layout looks great, what have you used for the walling on the tunnel mouths and upper levels?

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. I used downloadable brick paper, stuck onto card and sealed with a Matt spray 👍

[@AllSortsOfStuff58]

I'd check the wheels are properly quartered and in gauge. Make sure the valve gear is all secure, in line and lightly lubricated. Are the crossheads aligned correctly? Sometimes if they're not the piston rods can bind going in and out. Clean the motor and ensure the brushes are free to move on their springs over the commutator. I'm not familiar with this particular loco', but I'd check any gears for binding, misalignment, cracks or imperfections. Good luck...

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you very much. Some really good advice. Much appreciated 👍

[@kelvinVAUGHAN]

is it anything to do with rail gaps? If the layout has been subjected to the cold weather the joints may have contracted.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks. Definitely worth checking 👍

[@Millsbritish4x4]

kind of hard to make out on the vid but is it jerky in operation like it's losing power? I've just unboxed a Hornby NRM limited edition 4472 which I've had since Mosses was a lad, with a view to running it on my layout, runs like a pig! really jerky operation as it's been sat in it's box for years, pulled the cover of the worm gear and applied a couple of drop of loco lube.... seems to have fixed the jerkiness, which iIthink was just the worm gear mesh!

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

That’s really interesting, thank you. I still need to look the locos - as usual I’ve got distracted doing other bits to the layout! 👍

[@PeckhamHall]

Start with the basics a good clean and a lubrication of everything that moves, as you didn't mention anything you have or haven't tried yet. Then I wouldn't worry if you don't see anything else a miss, they look great.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much. 👍

[@charlesrussell8137]

Are you sure it’s not the ballast from the track hitting the wheels? Try running the locos on unballasted track to check. I had similar noises from mine when the ballast was sometimes on top of the sleepers. The track may need cleaning too. It seems strange to have a loco problem affecting multiple locos at the same time.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Good idea. I’ll try them on unballasted track just to be sure 👍

[@gamerdruid7605]

As others have said, invest in a rolling road. Remove bodies and give a good clean and service. Don't go messing with the CV's if it worked in the past until you're sure it is the cause. Most of all, a good clean and service will highlight the cause - once you know the cause the solution may become obvious. Stripping them down is relatively easy and an essential skill unless you're prepared (and able) to pay for servicing.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much. I do think investing in a rolling road will be wise 👍

[@torridonroadbypeterdixon4162]

Hi Andy, So, am assuming you have used some oil to begin with. Not the TTS decoder CV settings. If it was OK the last time you ran it, It should be fine now. As others have said a drive gear can split over time and would give you the symptom it's displaying. With the other two I bet you handle your locos carefully so can't see you would have bent the rods. So again why would you have trouble with the rods now. Look at the condition of the driving wheels, is there any 'pitting' developing on wheel to track surface of the wheel? That would give rough sounding running. If there is you can file it down but it will come back as it's the surface coating breaking down. Replacement wheel sets in the end needed. All these things can happen while the locos are stored. Hope you get it sorted All the best Peter

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks very much Peter. I’ll check it out 👍

[@kenbennett5458]

Hi andy i think the firts two maybe quarting problems and the third and im assuming that its fully run in looks like it dry somewhere ,im not an expert but have had these problems on other locos of mine in the past and found a rolling road to be invaluable wouldn't part with mine its a Hornby one you can a lot of the time easily locate problems and even run in you're locos on them , but to be honest the first two wouldn't bother me that much as i run anolog and dont have the luxury of sound and a great deal of locos used to make this sound anyway and to me it would be a bonus the one i would be more concerned with is the last one as that jerky movement is not very good , maybe if you could contact hornby they might be able to help i think they used to do a repair service dont know if they still do though only going from what i saw on there telly program but i would get a rolling raod anyway you'll find them a great help in servicing youre locos hope this may be of some help regards ken

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you. A rolling road is definitely on my list. I’m hearing a lot about potential split gears. I’ll check it out 👍

[@Jules-zo3ds]

With the first two, it sounds like a worn chassis bearing. If it is that, the only fix is to drill out the chassis and fabricate a new one. If you suspect the last one is a decoder issue, why not swap the decoder with a good one? I personally think the first two sound better than the sound decoders.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thank you for the tips/advice. Really appreciated 👍

[@hutchewah]

Hello. ok, just to be sure, have you lubed the locos lately? sometimes its the simple things.

[@Grandadstrainroom-pn3tt]

Thanks. That’s the next step. Hoping it’s something simple 👍