Before Dunkirk: Hawker Hurricane in the 'Phoney War' over France, 1939-40

[@showtime112]

Not all of the assets or aircraft insignia in this reenactment are 100% historical. Some airplane types and variations were not available, while creating and placing specific skin with correct serial number or letter is not strictly impossible, but it might take longer than the production of the entire video to get just right. Thank you for your understanding.

[@matthewcaughey8898]

You do what you can. A reasonable depiction with reasonably correct aircraft is perfectly acceptable given your historical accuracy. I’ve never had a complaint about what you do cause you give it your best to be as accurate as allowable under the circumstances of whatever program you’re using.

[@AlbertoLopez-lz7qb]

As long as you post the warning first, everything is fine. Rivet-counting should happen as a reaction only when viewers feel the creator is trying to fool them

[@showtime112]

@@AlbertoLopez-lz7qb There's a thing called the law of diminishing returns. Sometimes, additional effort could be put into these videos to make them extra realistic but it might double the required time and most people wouldn't even notice. It's a compromise of a sort but that's how things work in real life. Thank you for your comment!

[@ondrejdobrota7344]

Time 03:33 Dornier 17 crashed at Traveron.

[@gregp6210]

The radiator rear doors are sometimes shown in open position, which would only be true on the ground and slow speeds. At high speeds the doors were at maximum closure to minimize drag and improve the Meredith jet thrust effect.

[@timonsolus]

Well spotted.

[@jerrymail]

In France, we call this period "Drôle de guerre". The meaning here is not "Funny War" but rather "Weird, strange war". I have several family members who were on the front as soldiers during the "Phoney War" and "the Battle of France". One was a motorcyclist on a reconnaissance sidecar (in a GRDI) and the other a tanker in De Gaulle's cuirassier division. However, no pilots in the family ! My grand-father lived between Metz and the german border (Bionville-sur-Nied), he was 20 years old and told me about the aerial battles he saw above him in 1939-1940. Thanks for these videos. 😊 👍

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and for sharing some of your family history!

[@jerrymail]

@@showtime112 🙂👍

[@patrickmiossec]

Yep, « strange war » is the correct translation from the french « drôle de guerre » 👍

[@Pouncer9000]

I remember reading about the Morane incident in a British autobiography (possibly by Geoffrey Wellum or Geoffrey Page) who on a visit to a French squadron was told that the pilot in question had been sanctioned with 30 days in arrest (10 days for shooting at an ally, 20 days for missing!)

[@showtime112]

I found similar info. Missing seems to be a worse offense than misidentifying an airplane in the French Air Force 😁😁😁

[@dude126]

Love the mix of history and modern reenactment.

[@showtime112]

I appreciate your positive feedback!

[@chieftandriver703]

In fairness to the French even the RAF shot at their own aircraft There was the Battle of Barking Creek where Spitfires attacked Hurricanes and shot one down killing the pilot. This happened 3 days after the declaration of war in August 1939 It led to the court martial of 2 Spitfire pilots and the commanding officer of the squadron, ‘Sailor Malan’ giving evidence against his own men Friendly fire was an ever present problem and it still happens to this day

[@showtime112]

True. Anybody who ever tried to play Sim Battles in War Thunder knows how hard it is to identify a friendly 😁

[@Frserthegreenengine]

The court martial dropped the case against the 2 pilots and ruled that the incident was an unfortunate and tragic accident.

[@briantaylor9285]

RAF: "What the bloody Hell, man??" France: 😬 "Sacre bleu ..."

[@showtime112]

I'm wondering if the French pilot really didn't know who he was attacking 😁

[@briantaylor9285]

@@showtime112 for real!

[@fernandosanchiz6731]

I really loves this way of teaching military history

[@showtime112]

I'm glad you appreciate it, thank you!

[@qwerk707]

Great video really found it interesting…a video about the the various RAF aircraft that defended Malta, the three Gladiators called Faith, Hope and Glory would be interesting. Or even the Hurricanes and Spitfires that came after would be great..keep up the good work 👍

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much! There is a video on this channel about the early phase of the Malta campaign, although it focuses more on the Italian perspective. In near future, there will be a follow-up which will cover the early German involvement.

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

They were called Faith Hope and Charity. A bunch of disassembled Gladiators were found in shipping crates on Malta and put into the air I believe around six? Though due to spares shortages, battle damage etc no more than three were ever in the air at any one time.

[@timonsolus]

@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 : Correct, there were 6 Sea Gladiators (carrier version) in total - and the names Faith, Hope and Charity were given to them by the Maltese population and not by the RAF pilots.

[@pablopeter3564]

EXCELLENT video. Thanks for keeping aviation history alive. Not much is known about the "Funny War" (1939-1940). Keep working on these subjects.

[@showtime112]

I sure will, thank you! There's the invasion of Poland and then, the Battle of France. The in between period is mostly mentioned in the context of naval warfare but plenty of stuff was going on in the air too.

[@philsmith2444]

“The Hurricane’s superior speed…” That’s not something you hear very often LOL

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Because it was never true.

[@showtime112]

True, Hurricane couldn't beat many fighters in that aspect :)

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@showtime112 nor in acceleration, climb, dive, roll rate - and that was just in 1940. Too many lads were sacrificed in them.

[@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935]

The best French Fighter was the radial engined Curtiss 75 (P-36 Hawk). That wasn't saying much. It sounds like that Hurricane had the early fabric covered wing. They would not have had the upgrade to constant speed/fully automatic propellers at that time, before the Battle of Britain they would have a lighter simplified de Havilland version of the Hamilton Standard Hydromatic with manual 'two speed' propellers. Presumably they were using French fuel?

[@bobsakamanos4469]

@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 good points on the inclusion of Curtiss. The original Hawk 75-A manual states it has a Curtiss electric constant speed prop, metal wings. Good climb with the P&W.

[@juancarlosperezcortes9259]

Marvelous chapter. Thanks again for your classes

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the positive words!

[@MarsFKA]

I have "Fighter Pilot" (Paul Richie), whichh tells the story of 1 Squadron in France before Dunkirk. One of the things I learned from the book was that, in the hands of well-trained pilots, the Hurricane - even with the two-blade propellor - could hold its own against the 109 and outclassed the 110. In one engagement, Richie related how the squadron shot down ten 110s for the loss of one Hurricane - Richie's. He shot down two before having to bale out. According to the book, by the time the squadron returned to Britain, it had shot down 155 enemy aircraft - 114 of them in ten days, when the Blitzkrieg ramped up - for the loss of three pilots killed, two wounded and one POW. Cobber Kain was killed doing low-level rolls over his airfield. He had been posted back to Britain, being worn out from the constant combat and decided to do a quick beat up before leaving.

[@MarceloBorba-t5m]

Outsranding, as usual. Great performance. It should have been quite difficult to RAF fight these German pilots, who were very skilled from Condor Legion. Thank you very much!

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching and commenting! True, many Germans had real combat experience by this time.

[@Horizon344]

Excellent film once again.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much for these words!

[@privatesteverogers]

I like the video. It is cool you make videos besides jets because propeller planes are just as interesting. I would love to see an episode of Robin Olds in a dogfight with his P-51 Mustang. It would be a great tribute to such a great pilot. Do you plan on making one in the future? Have you ever thought of making an episode about the dogfights of F-86 sabres in the Second Taiwan Straits Crisis? Has the Iraq map become available in DCS yet? Remember, your objective is to make the videos just like the Dogfights series from the History Channel. That is what you're doing: gaining experience and perfecting your knowledge and skills with each video you post. Keep up the good work!

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the feedback and suggestions! Robin Olds might be a topic again but I can't say when exactly. The battles between PRC and Taiwan are definitely in the long term plans, I'm still looking for some more detailed sources. Iraq map for DCS isn't out yet, for now it's in the pre-purchase phase. But initially, only the northern part will be available with the south coming out later.

[@timonsolus]

I think Robin Olds flew the P-38 Lightning before he flew the P-51. That would be interesting too.

[@privatesteverogers]

You're right that would be an interesting thing to see. Here is a previous video that Showtime 112 made about Robin Olds in his P-38 Lighting : m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/hYeWkpuKnb5reLc It is definitely worth watching!

[@oveidasinclair982]

Those 109-E's packed 20mm cannons in each wing and two machine guns in the nose, being on the business end of a 109-E is NOT where you want to be while flying a Hurricane.

[@showtime112]

Or pretty much anything from that era 😁

[@matthewcaughey8898]

Ironic that the removal of both wing cannons and the installation of the 20mm Motorkannon on the BF-109 Fredrich version was actually seen as a downgrade. Even the Gustav 30mm was seen as insufficient and why they added gunpod 20mms starting of the F

[@dominiqueroudier9401]

​​@@matthewcaughey8898yes two gunpod for the underwing but the F and G became"less or poor dogfighters"😮

[@chrisdebeyer1108]

Very good video rendition of the very little known start of air combat in WW2 over France…and Germany !!

[@showtime112]

@@chrisdebeyer1108 Thank you, I appreciate your positive comment!

[@Eric-kn4yn]

Pilots should have carried binoculars for a/c ID

[@pablogonzalez8884]

Following this theme, I would like to suggest some episodes of WW2 such as the combats of the Dewoitine D520 in France or the combats of the Polish PZL P.11c during the German invasion at the beginning of the war. Other very interesting combats to recreate and to learn about their history are the low-altitude interceptions, which were not so many, but which were carried out by the Axis forces against the B-24s in the bombing of the Ploesti refineries.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the suggestions! The Polish campaign isn't yet possible as we don't have their indigenous fighters in the sims I use. As for the Battle of France, that is possible and it's in my plans. Also, some of the Romanian campaign as well.

[@timonsolus]

@@showtime112 : Yeah, you'd need to fly the IL-2 1946 sim to get those aircraft.

[@timonsolus]

Try this channel for early WW2 dogfights: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fmfafIqanrmceZI

[@1stbn8thmar]

Very Nice, Keep it up Showtime112! the landing was very good.

[@showtime112]

Thank you, I appreciate such an early support!

[@VC27]

Excellent work as usual! I only wish you could have rendered the underside of the Hurricanes in the black and white pattern with no ventral roundels (which was in standard use till June 1940) instead of the Duck's egg green / blue.

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much! Unfortunately, I didn't have the exact skin for the early Hurricane operations. RAF really changed their insignia too frequently 😁

[@branka4226]

Great work, thanks! 😊

[@showtime112]

Thank you for watching!

[@chups1447]

Great work 👍

[@showtime112]

Thanks, Chups!

[@bjornsmith9431]

Overclaimes is normal in air combat.

[@showtime112]

More I research, more I realize it 😁

[@timonsolus]

Especially in larger dogfights when multiple fighters are shooting at the same target.

[@stayontarget47]

Great video my friend. Keep em up

[@showtime112]

Thank you, more content coming up soon!

[@TonyA4766]

This is fast becoming my favourite KZbin channel

[@showtime112]

I'm very happy to hear these words, thank you!

[@geordiedog1749]

The Crab Creams loses to friendly fire were terrible.

[@cathybrind2381]

???????????????????????

[@francisebbecke2727]

Thanks for this video. We need to know more of the "phony war." More happened that is credited. I understand there were two German attempts to breach the Maginot Line, both unsuccessful.

[@showtime112]

Thank you for the the comment! Yes, this phase is rather overlooked and I intend to cover it some more.

[@timonsolus]

Actually, there were two successful German attempts to breach the Maginot Line, on 14 and 15 June 1940.

[@johanderuiter9842]

All fun and games until the Luftwaffe crossed those borders 💪 The only officer with an understanding of what was about to hit the English and French was Hugh Dowding.

[@donparker1823]

Makes me wonder why it took the allies so long to convert to cannons vs MG's? Couple of cannon shots and you'r done. It takes a lot of MG bullets to shoot down a plane and particularly a jet. I guess the P-38 had one cannon and some modles of the F4U. But I can't think of anyting else till the F-100 and the Navy F9F. Well I take it back, Bristol Beaufighter, Mosquito, Metior Later Spitfirfes. I think even the Polikarpov I-16 had cannons.

[@philsmith2444]

Well, the MG151 API rounds were about 200 m/s slower than .50 API, and had a rate of fire only half as fast. So while they may have been useful against big, slow, non-maneuvering bombers hitting a small, fast, nimble fighter was another story. If it DID get hit, 1 or 2 hits could cause severe damage. But so could 10-20 .50 API rounds.

[@robshirewood5060]

The Westland Whirlwind did have cannon, 4 in the nose but unfortunately they used to jam and had low ammunition capacity, but the aircrew loved the twin engines and how good they were when they worked correctly. I always wished they had developed it with Merlin engines and more guns even if re designed and slightly bigger. B-25 also had cannon i believe

[@showtime112]

Perhaps because they weren't facing heavy bombers to such an extent. Cannon rounds could be very effective but they were slower and it was much harder to hit a small, maneuvering target.

[@alejandrocasalegno1657]

You go to a rutine flight......and one of the enemies is Werner Molders.....Very bad day.....

[@showtime112]

That guy on the other side is bad news indeed! Although he's had his share of being on the receiving end as well 😁

[@richardmarshall4322]

The Hurricane scored highly during the Battle of France. 1 and 73 Squadrons had some extraordinary pilots. I recommend Paul Richey's 'Fighter Pilot'. Sounds like the commentator in this vid has read the book. The most intense fighting was after May 10 when the Germans launched the attack on the Low Countries. No 1 Squadron claimed 100 kills confirmed in 10 days.

[@timonsolus]

At that time, the 109s were used mostly on fighter sweeps, which meant the German bombers flew unescorted. The Hurricane was very effective against unescorted bombers (especially the Ju 87).

[@donparker1823]

Thanks!

[@showtime112]

Thank you very much for your continuous support!

[@dominiqueroudier9401]

0:30 i was surprised but True, the early hurricane who arrivéd with B.E.F in France were fitted with wooden two blade propeller😮😮 I have read in à report decades ago!!!

[@timonsolus]

Yes - early Hurricanes manufactured in 1937 and 1938.

[@geordiedog1749]

The RAF got everything wrong apart from bomber interception over the U.K. Their bombers were woeful, the bombing strategy was chaos, the Advanced Air Striking Force in France was a farce, their fighter strategy using Vics was suicidal, their recon plans got Lysander crews slaughtered , they completely failed to protect the east Coast convoys, the air transport component was nearly non existent, the utter cluster fuck they had as coastal command was only second worst because of the absolute bollocks they had made of the Fleet Air Arm. But apart from that they were great. (Mind you, you can make a good case for their success in fighter interception only causing the war to go one for four more years than was necessary, too). Nice uniforms though…..

[@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935]

They hadn't got the filthy nazi experience from massacring civilians for Fascist Franco in Spain.

[@timonsolus]

Sometimes the only way to learn lessons was the hard way. Just like the British Army and Navy, the RAF spent the first year of WW2 using the tactics that had worked for them in 1918.

[@cannonfodder4376]

A good look at early RAF actions during a much overlooked period of the war.

[@branka1980]

❤

[@showtime112]

Hvala!

[@ataraxia_eh]

Vendo esto fágome dúas preguntas: 1. Os pilotos buscaban só derribar ao avión enimigo ou lles interesaba asegurarse de tamén matar ao piloto? Había alguna orde ao respecto? 2. Cando un piloto aterrizaba de emerxencia en medio dun campo en territorio aliado, que facía? Tiña forma de comunicarse ca base? Volvía a base a pé ou esperaba xunto ó aparato a que o foran buscar? O avión era reparado in situ, o deixaban abandonado, destruiano ou o trasladaban de volta a base dalgún xeito? De levalo de volta como ó facían nos anos 40, ca infraestrutura e tecnoloxía que había nese momento? Se alguén se molesta en contestar, moitas grazas por adiantado!

[@gwtpictgwtpict4214]

I don't think any orders were given to kill enemy aircrew, though there cases on all sides of shooting at bailed out aircrews descending by parachute. The job was to shoot down the enemy aircraft. As for pilots who made emergency landings in allied territory, generally you would find a phone, ring your airbase and someone would be sent to pick you up. The vehicle sent may also have someone along to evaluate the condition of the aircraft, for a wheels down landing repairing in situ was a possibility but depended on the circumstances, are the beastly Hun nearby? Same conditions applied for aircraft that could not be repaired in situ, the assessment was made as to whether or not it was worth recovering for repair. The British had in service during the battle of Britain the "Queen Mary" trailer, designed to move fighter aircraft with the wings removed or parts of larger aircraft. I don't know whether any made it to France during the time of the phony war. Ideally you wouldn't just abandon a crash landed aircraft because you don't want the enemy getting hold of it and putting it back into the air to learn its capabilities, ideally you would destroy it by setting fire to it. RAF pilots at that time carried flare pistols for signaling purposes, I believe a fairly common destruction method for crash landed aircraft was to fire a flare into the cockpit and then run away very quickly before the fuel tanks caught fire :-).

[@antonrudenham3259]

Excellent but you didn't mention Newell 'Fanny' Ortons nick name.😮

[@showtime112]

There was also a pilot nicknamed 'Pussy' in one of those squadrons. Those guys were definitely not politically correct 😁😁😁

[@bobsakamanos4469]

Piece of cake

[@janlindtner305]

👍👍👍

[@showtime112]

I appreciate the comment!

[@ratagris21]

Excellent presentation but Showtime 112! Thank you for all you do! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🏴‍☠️🏹

[@showtime112]

My big thanks for being among the first to watch and comment!

[@jthomas4361]

What’s with the gay ass emojis

[@antonioiozzi9171]

As a WW1 avuation historian of the italian front I csn vobfirm you that overclaim are typical. In WW1 those who largely overclaimed were however the british pilots. On the italian front their was so greath that I estimate that 70% are overclaim. The british CO confirmed even the most absurd battle report. There are british pilits credited ecen with 12 EA shot down that have not a single proof from Austro Hugarian or German documents. In WW2 all overclaimed largely, US pilots beeing in pole position.

[@timonsolus]

Not at all surprising, considering that British pilots in WW1 were mostly very inexperienced due to the very heavy casualty rate, and also considering that nearly all dogfights took place over the enemy side of the lines, making confirmation of crashes by friendly infantry units impossible.

[@davidgamble5756]

Tell me when is it a phoney war 👎

[@timonsolus]

When there is relatively little fighting on the ground compared to the very heavy combat in Poland.

[@IllhanAfnan-o4f]

Im the 1st one here

[@ratagris21]

🏁🥳

[@multa765]

Why do these people insist on using AI for the voice-over? Dough 17? Really? The video crew who make these excellent recreations ought to kick up about the clowns in charge of the audio.

[@showtime112]

Dude, you must be on some heavy drugs 😁

[@dominiqueroudier9401]

🎉sorry for delay, we were "on duty " for cleaning a tombstone🪦. So vidéo on TV full HD tomorrow morning 😮 🙋

[@showtime112]

I was wondering if you were OK :) But fortunately, the video isn't going anywhere.